Expect a lot of videos like "why hydrogen wont work" by other companies or channels... because of all the money some companies poured into EV and they dont even want to think about Hydrogen or biofuels
@@mrbungle3310it's nice to have dreams and share ideas but why would you talk about things that you have no idea about with such confidence? The problem with hydrogen is that it takes more energy to create hydrogen, store it and transport it than the fuel provides. Hydrogen is the lightest and smallest element, it can leak through gaps that nothing else can and needs to be stored at 5000-10000 psi. Because of its low density, it can be cooled down into a liquid to try and make it denser, but needs to be cooled to less than -250°C. Even as liquid, it's 4 times less energy dense by volume than gasoline. So transportation and storage are major issues, the issue isn't that it can't be done, it's that the solutions need to scale up to a large and efficient enough size that it becomes viable. The bottom line is that it makes no sense to put more energy into making a fuel, than the fuel provides. But I hope it does work out eventually, even though it will take time.
Love the fact that the video also addresses Electrolyzes, where it's not so widely known that AVL does Simulation, Testing and Engineering as well. In the end it's only clean and sustainable racing if the H2 is produced accordingly.
@@321findus Kyle Hill made a point about Nuclear energy being the safest option for power generation which says a lot in contrast to what's been feeding the power grid. Plus you have technological advancements making nuclear reactors safer and safer by the year, which implies that they're dozens of times less likely to undergo a meltdown than outgoing and older iterations.
im glad to see them using water injection. it makes hydrogen combustion completely clean (without the water injection, a hydrogen combustion engine would still make NOx emissions, even though its clean of CO2)
Learn about metal hydride, it can store hydrogen safely without high pressure necessary and store enough in 4 tanks about the size of a regular gas tank and theres a video by helmholtz zentrum and one by bob lazar where he made his own hydrate. Tho hydride is not dangerous it is illegal to sell (not illegal to make your own) and thous hydrogen cars haven't become available. Change the law.
He has a point. Lots of hydrogen engines have been built before but all made pretty bad power numbers. This engine is among the first to produce big power. Impressive work. Let's hope these could work in consumer vehicles too!
@@moabman6803 The first company that comes to mind is JCB and their hydrogen powered farming equipment which is a step up from using fossil fuels amd such. There's also a hydrogen powered hot rod pickup truck that was built by a guy who showed it off at a car event not too long ago.
@flemlion13 What a strange thing to conclude. Hydrogen for the most part is still being developed as a source of fuel. It's being tested in some areas, so obviously refill stations would be scattered until the technology is developed further.
@@moabman6803 Then there are the companies mentioned like AVL who are putting money and research into expanding the infrastructure. There might not be very many refueling stations but that will change over time.
@@m.r.perea_s2k No. The water is for cooling the piston head. Unlike the cylinder that is surrounded by a water jacket the piston has no direct water cooling. Injecting water into the cylinder after detonation carries heat away in the form of steam to keep peak piston temps below damaging levels. It also has the bonus of increasing max torque do to the expansion of water to gas vapor. Similar to a steam engine. Stanley steam engine typically produced between 10 and 30 horsepower, but due to its high torque, it could generate significantly more power for short bursts, with some estimates placing its torque at around 800 pound-feet.
@@aeasus the water is injected on the intake, just to cool down the combustion chamber, piston, etc... and also reduce the reactivity of the mixture, it is just to avoid pre-ignition.
@@m.r.perea_s2kCylinder walls and engine head have water jackets. The piston doesn't have any water cooling jacket. The bonus is that expanding steam creates about a 13% boost to torque at low RPMs.
@@aeasus the steam is generated during the compression also, I doubt it will produce even 1% of the torque... The water is injected in the intake manifold, entering during the intake stroke and evaporating during intake and compression. The main purpose of the water is cooling and reduction of reactivity to avoid pre-ignition of the H2. Steam without energy does not produce anything... I even doubt in the complete evaporation of all the water before combustion...
What a ruddy good video. Great to see a hydrogen powered engine on song and producing mind boggling power. Hydrogen IS the way forward and i for one am looking forward to it.
The big drawback of hydrogen ICE is the efficiency, it's about 1/3 as efficient as an EV. And Hydrogen leaks out when stored, so you'll always have losses. It's necessary though, as some solutions can't get away from using ICEs.
@@TheSilverShadow17 You can't solve the issue with leaking hydrogen, the molecules are small enough that they'll get through solid metal. And over time the metal will get brittle. Fire and explosion risks are there, but since it's light, it barely spreads. So you get violent combustion, but not a whole lot more.
@@Celciusify it is correct that motor efficiency is better in a battery EV, however, when you look at the whole system including transport, transformation back and forth, charging, and loss in batteries you are moving pretty far away from that ideal number that EV fans always talk about. Especially when we are talking about generating that electricity in a caloric powerplant that burns coal or natural gas to heat water and then drives a turbine which in turn drives a generator, then sends it through a transformation station and into overland lines, through another transformation, into local grid, then to a charging station which converts it again. next the Car cuts it down to direct current to be stored in batteries, then transform it back to AC to run an electric motor. In Addition, you also have to consider weight. 3 or 4 Ton EVs with bloated SUV and trucks-bodies are not efficient. If you put all those losses together, suddenly filling any gas directly in a car, that's half the weight, makes a lot of sense. Especially in places that don't have the proper infrastructure to produce or transport electricity.
@@Mi-Chis Did you account for the losses when producing and transporting the fuel for ICE? The vast majority of Diesel/Petrol production use fossil fuels to power that process. You'll quickly see that it's much worse than powering an EV with a coal plant.
Would be awesome if they can make hydrogen kit for common tuner engines out there, it would help a lot of people and race guys go into hydrogen and then hydrogen powered series will start to spring up 🤩.
I've heard about metal hydride, it can store hydrogen safely without high pressure necessary and store enough in 4 tanks about the size of a regular gas tank and theres a video by helmholtz zentrum and one by bob lazar where he made his own hydrate. Tho hydride is not dangerous it is illegal to sell (not illegal to make your own) and thous hydrogen cars haven't become available. Change the law.
good job AVL for using water injection! that means they dont need ny emissions equipment on their engines. Hydrogen combustion by itself still makes NOx emissions and the water injection they put on the engine sprays water to lower the ignition temperature, therefore getting rid of the NOx emissions completely. this is truly the future!
At lambda 1 you will still make NOx even with the water injection. H2 engines don't produce NOx at leaner lambdas but of course difficult to get the air needed without a complex turbocharging system... Still passing a certain point water injection will be needed even at leaner lambdas to be able to increase the load.
@ I doubt that since NOx requires heat to form and water injection lowers that amount of heat. No heat for the reaction to occur, no NOx. That’s basic chemistry
Maybe I've missed it, but how is the fuel stored? Is it pressured or liquid? If it's pressured, then race cars will have to be trucks to carry enough of it around. If it's liquid, well the fuel pump and fuel tank will be the tricky part. Don't get me wrong: I'm really happy that there is a lot of effort done to move technology forward, but with hydrogen, there are so many difficult challenges which needs to be managed first. There is a fantastic video from "Engineering Explained" - he is going into the details of the challenges.
the future is cyogenic at the moment we talk about 700 bar vessels. BUT the efficiency is at 42 % with this power, so no problem for a `normal` racedistance
@@louisfliegner7595 Well, this is what Toyota did at the 24h of Fuji with their hydrogen Toyota corolla race car. The issue they had was the fuel pump. The extreme temperature changes broke multiple times the fuel pump which also had to be replaced after a couple stints multiple times.
Impressive work. Congratulations to the entire engineering team at this company for achieving impressive numbers. I hope to see it not only in racing cars but in urban vehicles... Because believing that an electric car will be the solution of the future, we are far from that. Unless Nikolas Tesla's project on the Wardenclyffe tower appears.
@@flemlion13I've heard about metal hydride, it can store hydrogen safely without high pressure necessary and store enough in 4 tanks about the size of a regular gas tank and theres a video by helmholtz zentrum and one by bob lazar where he made his own hydrate. Tho hydride is not dangerous it is illegal to sell (not illegal to make your own) and thous hydrogen cars haven't become available. Change the law.
@@flemlion13 yeah at a prototype stage you would leave it charging overnight but that's if you are moving in unmixed pure hydrogen into the hydride tank, if you have it at the gas station my assumption would be that it's already mixed with hydride and the transfer from the pump to the car would be faster. Maybe. Hopefully. Thing is there's a company (AVL) in Australia working with non hydride hydrogen building an engine running at 400 hp 2 litter inline 4(that would be around 350 hp to the wheels theres a dyno video of it) expecting to use it in motorsports and mentioned 2026 Le Mans. So that's encouraging
JCB Equipment has also designed a Hydrogen engine for their equipment. JCB says there Hydrogen engine, as compared to diesel, has 95% the power of a diesel engine. JCB tried EV technology. They advised it failed to empress clients. EV’s can’t work 16 hours a day, like many mines require of their equipment. Also, EV’s break with the constant stress on heavy equipment. So, Hydrogen is the future. The only challenge is Hydrogen stations are harder to set up than gas and Diesel stations. However, it can be done.
I don't know how safe it is in a crash when it's so easily combustible off hot surfaces etc. Probably there are ways to ensure safety and I see some have also pointed out it's safer than some other fuels so let's hope. But while it is a really exciting and impressive project, the big problem at the moment is that today, nearly all hydrogen is fossil fuel based "grey hydrogen" with the clean, water electrolysis and wind or solar powered production based "green hydrogen" making up less than 1 percent of all hydrogen produced in the US for example. After this year, nearly all new hydrogen production coming online is expected to be clean hydrogen which in the right price conditions could start a phaseout of grey hydrogen, driven by the growing cost competitiveness of clean energy and commitments to decarbonize. But that is still a long way from realizing. So until there is a market with enough supply (please consider that green hydrogen is also required for more critical applications like public transit, heating, fertilizer manufacturing etc), I don't see hydrogen becoming a widely used fuel in racing or private consumption. Having said that, the demand is increasing and price of green hydrogen production has come down many many times over, so at least it's moving in the right direction.
The real future for green vehicles! The cost of batteries and the amount of waste that will be created with old batteries that no one is talking about how they are going to deal with.
@@logitech4873 no actually they talk about all the jobs and the new factories to make batteries. No one is saying anything about how they plan to recycle or dispose of the batteries.
@@aaronwhitaker307 Nobody is talking about it? It's literally an industry rebuilding and recycling EV batteries. What you MEANT to say was "nobody is researching how EV batteries are recycled and rebuilt".
My question is it a hydrogen combustion or is the hydrogen being used to heat the boiler(cyclinder) and the water injected and therefore a steam engine? I am thinking out loud but would like to know what other’s thoughts are.
@@Andre_The_Millennial It doesn't work like that. Hydrogen is the smallest possible form of normal matter, thus has the lowest density of any other substance. Hydrogen exists as a diatomic molecule with two protons and two electrons, and most molecules are orders of magnitude larger than that, including natural gas. Hydrogen, being so small and light, can escape through gaps that nothing else can, so how exactly are additives supposed to help if they can't escape along with it? Even if there was a leak big enough for the additives to escape as well, the lighter hydrogen would escape much before the heavier odorant would reach your nose.
Fascinating! Hydrogen has a RON of 60-something, that's a pretty severe drawback when you want high performance. What they are achieving is very impressive, for a hydrogen combustion engine, kind of mediocre compared to a lot of engines in common production ICE vehicles can produce with some encouragement, and ridiculous compared to what they could achieve, much easier, and safer, with ethanol or methanol, and a lot of other fuels that can be supplied as sustainably as hydrogen, or better. Methane, which could come from biogas, or produced from hydrogen, could produce much better performance, easier, cheaper and safer. To put it into perspective, they manage to push just over 400 hp out of 2 liter displacement, in a highly controlled situation, while some F1 engines produced well over 1000 hp, from 1.5 liter displacement, with more regulations, limitations, and on the track, in the 1980s.
Great engine and great video. However, gaseous Hydrogen needs to be made on demand at the injector if it is to be viable. Super capcitors and sea water electrolysis...
@logitech4873 ...there's a LOT of moving parts in a vehicle. Moving parts within stationary parts have a potential of creating electricity. Electricity, funnily enough, can recharge Super capacitors...thus extending range by literally 2, possibly 3 orders of magnitude given the size a water tank... Anyway, I'm sure based on your comment, you'd thought of all of this also...
@@TheGenXInnovator You haven't thought this through whatsoever. You'll spend all your electric capacity to create a few grams of hydrogen, then you'll burn the hydrogen, and... Oh yeah now you're all out of hydrogen, and you weren't able to gather enough energy to create more because it takes far more energy to create hydrogen than what you get from burning it. Please just sit down and try to do the actual math on this. It just doesn't work out.
Oh!; Forgot to remind everyone regarding our Atmospheric Oxygen: >Atmospheric Oxygen is roughly 21%. The other 79% is mostly Nitrogen + other gases. >Roughly 60% - 70% of Atmospheric Oxygen is actually produced by Phytoplancton, both, sea algae & fresh water algae + vegetation, AND these algae truly 'eat' CO2.. >Roughly 30% - 40% of Oxygen is produced by forests / Earth's flora. So, the vast & gorgeous forests are NOT our Earth's 'lungs'. Credits go to our vast and beautiful Oceans.. >Ergo: If we ELIMINATE CO2 is equivalent to shooting ourselves our feet
All lifeforms produce a trace amount of C02 and there's nothing we can do about it. Plants are no exception and neither are we. Carbon based life here on Earth will do this and has been for millions of years at the very least.
@@logitech4873 We emit 40 gigatons CO2/yr. After oceanic absorption and plant photosynthesis 2.5ppm or .00025% or 1:400,000. If such a tiny amount can upset the carbon cycle in the vastness of the oceans and the atmosphere, I along with people like Patrick Moore, want to see the proof.
@@yasi4877 We've increased the global concentration from ~250ppm to ~400ppm. The consequences of this is well understood. I recommend you read up on climate change. Patrick Moore doesn't matter. He's not a climate researcher.
@@logitech4873 I'm not asking for your opinion I am asking for the proof. What have you got? Or should I mention that this is entirely political as stated by UN under-secretary general for global communications to the WEF that "ha, ha, ha and as you know, we own the $cience". Own = bought.
It’s cool but i have questions about the range. It’s a problem with hydrogen/ev cars, with the hydrogen/ice cars it should be 3 times worse. How many laps will the car be able to do at Le Mans before running out of hydrogen and water (but i guess the hydrogen is going to be the biggest problem)? Will it be safe to refuel the car or it may be safer to just change the tanks? How much will the car (with all the hydrogen stuff) weight? I’m not concerned about the power (even though 410hp and 505nm of torque is not that mindblowing from a turbocharged 2 liters engine) but about the rest: the range, the weight, the refueling. This is super cool though, but i would’ve liked more details about the consumption and the afr (or i should say afwr, air, fuel and water ratio) to try to understand better the engine.
@@logitech4873 in the video they said they’re using water to cool down the combusion chambers from the enormous heat generated by the hydrogen flame front, distilled water, so i think it’s going to be used in the race car also.
@@lorenzodicosmo2708 I think it's at least partly because there is no air cooling in the engine dyno room. Later in a car, air cooling + a normal radiator might suffice as it's a completely different application.
@@SoofiGaming engine heat is far from chamber heat. The first can vary from a dyno to a car, the second one cannot. Now, i saw this video 11 month ago, i should refresh my mind watching it again, but if i’m remembering well they said they have to run the car with a mix of hydrogen and water (notice that water injection in petrol car is already a thing), so it has to be counted in the afr/afwr, i’m gonna look up this channel if they posted anything new about this fascinating project.
I was really surprised to hear that they were using spark-plugs, if hydrogen is as volatile as they said it is.. it seems like they'd just, do like Diesel, and go compression ignition?
Glad to see the development of H2 combustion engines picks up speed. Same leaque @BOSCH, but already in a race car: ua-cam.com/video/oiD_DDGqkPc/v-deo.html
Research about metal hydride, it can store hydrogen safely without high pressure necessary and store enough in 4 tanks about the size of a regular gas tank and theres a video by helmholtz zentrum and one by bob lazar where he made his own hydrate. Tho hydride is not dangerous it is illegal to sell (not illegal to make your own) and thous hydrogen cars haven't become available. Change the law.
We get 30% + more horse power with our hydrogen on demand We have hard core data from real world data and labs around the world. The hydrogen that we make on demand is 4 times the energy than bottled hydrogen we make a % of monoatomic hydrogen been doing it for 16 years now.
FYI. Hydrogen is less dangerous than Diesel in an accident. Toyota did all these tests for their H car. In an accident, if there was a H leak, it is gone in seconds. If there is a gas leak, this stays around for hours and can start on fire.
This didn't explain anything about how you are getting transforming fuel from water to hydrogen... I don't care about the performance of hydrogen... Calling BS.
Needlessly complex design and still makes the same amount of noise pollution. Just use EV, much more elegant and simple design, reduces noise pollution, cheaper to run in most places, and energy storage convenience will catch up eventually. Leave ICE for the track and racing, use EV everywhere else that commuter practicality is a requirement.
This is stolen tech, I remember a guy invented the first water engine a long time ago, and they made him disappear. Then, all of a sudden, we have these companies suddenly developing the technology 🙄. They did the same with Tesla stole his work, and now we are all having to pay for it in the long run. What this means is that water we take for granted will become more expensive and even more chargeable.
I freaking love hydrogen. But maybe that's because I live in a country that produces 98% of its energy fossil-free. 😅 IMO, batteries belong in things like e-bikes and smartphones, NOT a 5000 lbs car.
“Clean sustainable and *exciting* race engines”
You got that bloody right. *Exciting* is what we want. Not a dull electric motor.
Expect a lot of videos like "why hydrogen wont work" by other companies or channels... because of all the money some companies poured into EV and they dont even want to think about Hydrogen or biofuels
100% agreed. Envy is the WORST Ego- driven sin.
@@mrbungle3310it's nice to have dreams and share ideas but why would you talk about things that you have no idea about with such confidence?
The problem with hydrogen is that it takes more energy to create hydrogen, store it and transport it than the fuel provides.
Hydrogen is the lightest and smallest element, it can leak through gaps that nothing else can and needs to be stored at 5000-10000 psi. Because of its low density, it can be cooled down into a liquid to try and make it denser, but needs to be cooled to less than -250°C. Even as liquid, it's 4 times less energy dense by volume than gasoline. So transportation and storage are major issues, the issue isn't that it can't be done, it's that the solutions need to scale up to a large and efficient enough size that it becomes viable.
The bottom line is that it makes no sense to put more energy into making a fuel, than the fuel provides. But I hope it does work out eventually, even though it will take time.
Tell that to the Mcmurtry speirling fan car lol
@@mrbungle3310Porsche has a plant in Chile that's producing E-fuels, so that in itself says otherwise
Love the fact that the video also addresses Electrolyzes, where it's not so widely known that AVL does Simulation, Testing and Engineering as well. In the end it's only clean and sustainable racing if the H2 is produced accordingly.
Every country should invest heavily in nuclear power and hydrogen infrastructure.
@@321findus Kyle Hill made a point about Nuclear energy being the safest option for power generation which says a lot in contrast to what's been feeding the power grid. Plus you have technological advancements making nuclear reactors safer and safer by the year, which implies that they're dozens of times less likely to undergo a meltdown than outgoing and older iterations.
im glad to see them using water injection. it makes hydrogen combustion completely clean (without the water injection, a hydrogen combustion engine would still make NOx emissions, even though its clean of CO2)
Learn about metal hydride, it can store hydrogen safely without high pressure necessary and store enough in 4 tanks about the size of a regular gas tank and theres a video by helmholtz zentrum and one by bob lazar where he made his own hydrate. Tho hydride is not dangerous it is illegal to sell (not illegal to make your own) and thous hydrogen cars haven't become available. Change the law.
@@someseriousname I’ll look into it, thanks man
He has a point. Lots of hydrogen engines have been built before but all made pretty bad power numbers. This engine is among the first to produce big power. Impressive work. Let's hope these could work in consumer vehicles too!
don't hold your breath....
Actually many companies already have hydrogen engine nearly ready for production. They make about the same power as a gas or diesel.
@@moabman6803 The first company that comes to mind is JCB and their hydrogen powered farming equipment which is a step up from using fossil fuels amd such. There's also a hydrogen powered hot rod pickup truck that was built by a guy who showed it off at a car event not too long ago.
@flemlion13 What a strange thing to conclude. Hydrogen for the most part is still being developed as a source of fuel. It's being tested in some areas, so obviously refill stations would be scattered until the technology is developed further.
@@moabman6803 Then there are the companies mentioned like AVL who are putting money and research into expanding the infrastructure. There might not be very many refueling stations but that will change over time.
That's awesome news. So glad to see it happening.
The twin water rails tells me this engine must have an incredible exhaust pressure with all that steam. I love it :)
Are you saying water injection is for the exhaust pressure?
@@m.r.perea_s2k No. The water is for cooling the piston head. Unlike the cylinder that is surrounded by a water jacket the piston has no direct water cooling. Injecting water into the cylinder after detonation carries heat away in the form of steam to keep peak piston temps below damaging levels. It also has the bonus of increasing max torque do to the expansion of water to gas vapor. Similar to a steam engine. Stanley steam engine typically produced between 10 and 30 horsepower, but due to its high torque, it could generate significantly more power for short bursts, with some estimates placing its torque at around 800 pound-feet.
@@aeasus the water is injected on the intake, just to cool down the combustion chamber, piston, etc... and also reduce the reactivity of the mixture, it is just to avoid pre-ignition.
@@m.r.perea_s2kCylinder walls and engine head have water jackets. The piston doesn't have any water cooling jacket. The bonus is that expanding steam creates about a 13% boost to torque at low RPMs.
@@aeasus the steam is generated during the compression also, I doubt it will produce even 1% of the torque... The water is injected in the intake manifold, entering during the intake stroke and evaporating during intake and compression. The main purpose of the water is cooling and reduction of reactivity to avoid pre-ignition of the H2. Steam without energy does not produce anything... I even doubt in the complete evaporation of all the water before combustion...
What a ruddy good video. Great to see a hydrogen powered engine on song and producing mind boggling power.
Hydrogen IS the way forward and i for one am looking forward to it.
Zseniális!!! Az elektromos egy hazug és rossz irány! Egyáltalán nem zöld! Hajrá belsőégésűek! Sok sikert AVL RACETECH!
Rather the world go hydrogen than electric. Best of both worlds, combustion and sustainability. Or at least I'd hope racing would go this route.
There's a high chance that you will find Hydrogen engines in motorsport because some racers are already putting these to the test.
The big drawback of hydrogen ICE is the efficiency, it's about 1/3 as efficient as an EV.
And Hydrogen leaks out when stored, so you'll always have losses.
It's necessary though, as some solutions can't get away from using ICEs.
@@TheSilverShadow17 You can't solve the issue with leaking hydrogen, the molecules are small enough that they'll get through solid metal. And over time the metal will get brittle.
Fire and explosion risks are there, but since it's light, it barely spreads. So you get violent combustion, but not a whole lot more.
@@Celciusify it is correct that motor efficiency is better in a battery EV, however, when you look at the whole system including transport, transformation back and forth, charging, and loss in batteries you are moving pretty far away from that ideal number that EV fans always talk about.
Especially when we are talking about generating that electricity in a caloric powerplant that burns coal or natural gas to heat water and then drives a turbine which in turn drives a generator, then sends it through a transformation station and into overland lines, through another transformation, into local grid, then to a charging station which converts it again. next the Car cuts it down to direct current to be stored in batteries, then transform it back to AC to run an electric motor. In Addition, you also have to consider weight. 3 or 4 Ton EVs with bloated SUV and trucks-bodies are not efficient.
If you put all those losses together, suddenly filling any gas directly in a car, that's half the weight, makes a lot of sense. Especially in places that don't have the proper infrastructure to produce or transport electricity.
@@Mi-Chis Did you account for the losses when producing and transporting the fuel for ICE? The vast majority of Diesel/Petrol production use fossil fuels to power that process.
You'll quickly see that it's much worse than powering an EV with a coal plant.
Would be awesome if they can make hydrogen kit for common tuner engines out there, it would help a lot of people and race guys go into hydrogen and then hydrogen powered series will start to spring up 🤩.
This is what we want, and we want it now!.
awesome work, Nilton Diniz and team! All the best on the next endeavors.
There is a world for both.
Sure, dividing boys from real men
Hydrogen, even with its special challenges, makes a lot more sense than trying to totally switch to EVs.
I've heard about metal hydride, it can store hydrogen safely without high pressure necessary and store enough in 4 tanks about the size of a regular gas tank and theres a video by helmholtz zentrum and one by bob lazar where he made his own hydrate. Tho hydride is not dangerous it is illegal to sell (not illegal to make your own) and thous hydrogen cars haven't become available. Change the law.
good job AVL for using water injection! that means they dont need ny emissions equipment on their engines. Hydrogen combustion by itself still makes NOx emissions and the water injection they put on the engine sprays water to lower the ignition temperature, therefore getting rid of the NOx emissions completely. this is truly the future!
At lambda 1 you will still make NOx even with the water injection. H2 engines don't produce NOx at leaner lambdas but of course difficult to get the air needed without a complex turbocharging system... Still passing a certain point water injection will be needed even at leaner lambdas to be able to increase the load.
@ I doubt that since NOx requires heat to form and water injection lowers that amount of heat. No heat for the reaction to occur, no NOx. That’s basic chemistry
@@fadedsoul23 there is still enough temp to form NOx even with the water injection believe me. Even more at high load +20bar BMEP.
@ we shall see
The fact they have modified a ea888 gen 3 from the vw group is so cool
Maybe I've missed it, but how is the fuel stored? Is it pressured or liquid? If it's pressured, then race cars will have to be trucks to carry enough of it around. If it's liquid, well the fuel pump and fuel tank will be the tricky part. Don't get me wrong: I'm really happy that there is a lot of effort done to move technology forward, but with hydrogen, there are so many difficult challenges which needs to be managed first. There is a fantastic video from "Engineering Explained" - he is going into the details of the challenges.
Stored as a gas in tanks. In liquid form it would need to be chilled. Once this tech gets cracked the EV world will literally collapse.
the future is cyogenic at the moment we talk about 700 bar vessels. BUT the efficiency is at 42 % with this power, so no problem for a `normal` racedistance
@@louisfliegner7595 should be fine for road use too granted leakage does not become a big factor.
@@louisfliegner7595 Well, this is what Toyota did at the 24h of Fuji with their hydrogen Toyota corolla race car. The issue they had was the fuel pump. The extreme temperature changes broke multiple times the fuel pump which also had to be replaced after a couple stints multiple times.
@@cypcyphurra8755It boils down to the execution, but the concept has been around since the invention of the car.
Amazing
Hydrogen > electric! ❤❤❤
Go Ellen! Good person to lead the motorsport area.
Love that hydrogen engine a lot ❤
Impressive work. Congratulations to the entire engineering team at this company for achieving impressive numbers. I hope to see it not only in racing cars but in urban vehicles... Because believing that an electric car will be the solution of the future, we are far from that. Unless Nikolas Tesla's project on the Wardenclyffe tower appears.
Very interesting. Working on Hydrogen generators for my vehicles. If they combine the DAE Panel and the high pressure that would be great.
This is where "competition improves the breed" Motor sport, at it's best, should allways work with technology that is transferable
Awesome now they need to make them for commercially available cars 😀😀
@@flemlion13 i don't think the future of hydrogen cars is over just yet ..
@@flemlion13 we can only hope brother 🙏
@@flemlion13I've heard about metal hydride, it can store hydrogen safely without high pressure necessary and store enough in 4 tanks about the size of a regular gas tank and theres a video by helmholtz zentrum and one by bob lazar where he made his own hydrate. Tho hydride is not dangerous it is illegal to sell (not illegal to make your own) and thous hydrogen cars haven't become available. Change the law.
@@flemlion13 yeah at a prototype stage you would leave it charging overnight but that's if you are moving in unmixed pure hydrogen into the hydride tank, if you have it at the gas station my assumption would be that it's already mixed with hydride and the transfer from the pump to the car would be faster. Maybe. Hopefully. Thing is there's a company (AVL) in Australia working with non hydride hydrogen building an engine running at 400 hp 2 litter inline 4(that would be around 350 hp to the wheels theres a dyno video of it) expecting to use it in motorsports and mentioned 2026 Le Mans. So that's encouraging
Gerhard looking professional as always 😂
It would be interesting to know more about consumption and NOx emissions.
400hp from a race engine? And the massive weight of hauling the hydrogen? The risk? This is not mathing.
I've always said since middle school and I'm 35 now, hydrogen was always the answer to our power needs until we can get to helium3 on the moon 😅🎉
JCB Equipment has also designed a Hydrogen engine for their equipment. JCB says there Hydrogen engine, as compared to diesel, has 95% the power of a diesel engine. JCB tried EV technology. They advised it failed to empress clients. EV’s can’t work 16 hours a day, like many mines require of their equipment. Also, EV’s break with the constant stress on heavy equipment. So, Hydrogen is the future. The only challenge is Hydrogen stations are harder to set up than gas and Diesel stations. However, it can be done.
Luckily there are some companies out there that are investing in Hydrogen refill stations so hopefully the infrastructure builds up to a degree.
Water for fuel. What's not to like...?
When he said "Hot Valves" I thought he said "Hot Wives" as a little sneaky joke.
Gotta go fast!
I don't know how safe it is in a crash when it's so easily combustible off hot surfaces etc. Probably there are ways to ensure safety and I see some have also pointed out it's safer than some other fuels so let's hope. But while it is a really exciting and impressive project, the big problem at the moment is that today, nearly all hydrogen is fossil fuel based "grey hydrogen" with the clean, water electrolysis and wind or solar powered production based "green hydrogen" making up less than 1 percent of all hydrogen produced in the US for example. After this year, nearly all new hydrogen production coming online is expected to be clean hydrogen which in the right price conditions could start a phaseout of grey hydrogen, driven by the growing cost competitiveness of clean energy and commitments to decarbonize. But that is still a long way from realizing. So until there is a market with enough supply (please consider that green hydrogen is also required for more critical applications like public transit, heating, fertilizer manufacturing etc), I don't see hydrogen becoming a widely used fuel in racing or private consumption. Having said that, the demand is increasing and price of green hydrogen production has come down many many times over, so at least it's moving in the right direction.
hydrogène combustion engine and Electric this Is the future for all
Super!
The real future for green vehicles! The cost of batteries and the amount of waste that will be created with old batteries that no one is talking about how they are going to deal with.
"that no one is talking about"
Except very very many people are talking about it. Why are you pretending like it's not a common topic?
@@logitech4873 no actually they talk about all the jobs and the new factories to make batteries. No one is saying anything about how they plan to recycle or dispose of the batteries.
@@aaronwhitaker307 Try looking up lithium battery recycling. It's an industry that's scaling up, but needs to grow faster
@@aaronwhitaker307 Nobody is talking about it? It's literally an industry rebuilding and recycling EV batteries. What you MEANT to say was "nobody is researching how EV batteries are recycled and rebuilt".
Check out Mike Copeland-he has the engineering team for race track or commuting to work with existing motor platforms!
Combustion phasing seems pretty late, but the variation looks to be pretty low... interesting.
My question is it a hydrogen combustion or is the hydrogen being used to heat the boiler(cyclinder) and the water injected and therefore a steam engine? I am thinking out loud but would like to know what other’s thoughts are.
For Hydrogen Fueling please Review Secure Supplies Hydrogen Hot Rodding
No odorant so you won’t smell a gas leak. And you almost don’t see the flames. Really doubt this is safe for racing and consumers.
That's what additives are for.
@@Andre_The_Millennial Sadly there is no standardized odorant yet. That would be a good beginning.
@@Andre_The_Millennial It doesn't work like that. Hydrogen is the smallest possible form of normal matter, thus has the lowest density of any other substance. Hydrogen exists as a diatomic molecule with two protons and two electrons, and most molecules are orders of magnitude larger than that, including natural gas.
Hydrogen, being so small and light, can escape through gaps that nothing else can, so how exactly are additives supposed to help if they can't escape along with it?
Even if there was a leak big enough for the additives to escape as well, the lighter hydrogen would escape much before the heavier odorant would reach your nose.
You could have a simple computer monitored leak test done similar to a standard evap system on most cars to have the system check for leaks.
Fascinating! Hydrogen has a RON of 60-something, that's a pretty severe drawback when you want high performance. What they are achieving is very impressive, for a hydrogen combustion engine, kind of mediocre compared to a lot of engines in common production ICE vehicles can produce with some encouragement, and ridiculous compared to what they could achieve, much easier, and safer, with ethanol or methanol, and a lot of other fuels that can be supplied as sustainably as hydrogen, or better. Methane, which could come from biogas, or produced from hydrogen, could produce much better performance, easier, cheaper and safer.
To put it into perspective, they manage to push just over 400 hp out of 2 liter displacement, in a highly controlled situation, while some F1 engines produced well over 1000 hp, from 1.5 liter displacement, with more regulations, limitations, and on the track, in the 1980s.
Great engine and great video. However, gaseous Hydrogen needs to be made on demand at the injector if it is to be viable. Super capcitors and sea water electrolysis...
That's a recipe for like 2 kilometers of range.
@logitech4873 ...there's a LOT of moving parts in a vehicle. Moving parts within stationary parts have a potential of creating electricity. Electricity, funnily enough, can recharge Super capacitors...thus extending range by literally 2, possibly 3 orders of magnitude given the size a water tank...
Anyway, I'm sure based on your comment, you'd thought of all of this also...
@@TheGenXInnovator You haven't thought this through whatsoever. You'll spend all your electric capacity to create a few grams of hydrogen, then you'll burn the hydrogen, and... Oh yeah now you're all out of hydrogen, and you weren't able to gather enough energy to create more because it takes far more energy to create hydrogen than what you get from burning it.
Please just sit down and try to do the actual math on this. It just doesn't work out.
@@logitech4873... so what's your solution for Hydrogen on Demand?
@@TheGenXInnovator Hydrogen filling stations.
I expected it to sound like George Jetson's saucer-car.
Can the exhaust melt your face like green nitromethane smoke?
That'd be great!
Oh!; Forgot to remind everyone regarding our Atmospheric Oxygen:
>Atmospheric Oxygen is roughly 21%. The other 79% is mostly Nitrogen + other gases.
>Roughly 60% - 70% of Atmospheric Oxygen is actually produced by Phytoplancton, both, sea algae & fresh water algae + vegetation, AND these algae truly 'eat' CO2..
>Roughly 30% - 40% of Oxygen is produced by forests / Earth's flora. So, the vast & gorgeous forests are NOT our Earth's 'lungs'. Credits go to our vast and beautiful Oceans..
>Ergo: If we ELIMINATE CO2 is equivalent to shooting ourselves our feet
All lifeforms produce a trace amount of C02 and there's nothing we can do about it. Plants are no exception and neither are we. Carbon based life here on Earth will do this and has been for millions of years at the very least.
We can't "eliminate" CO2. The point is to stop releasing massive amounts of CO2 which upsets the natural carbon cycle.
@@logitech4873 We emit 40 gigatons CO2/yr. After oceanic absorption and plant photosynthesis 2.5ppm or .00025% or 1:400,000. If such a tiny amount can upset the carbon cycle in the vastness of the oceans and the atmosphere, I along with people like Patrick Moore, want to see the proof.
@@yasi4877 We've increased the global concentration from ~250ppm to ~400ppm. The consequences of this is well understood. I recommend you read up on climate change.
Patrick Moore doesn't matter. He's not a climate researcher.
@@logitech4873 I'm not asking for your opinion I am asking for the proof. What have you got? Or should I mention that this is entirely political as stated by UN under-secretary general for global communications to the WEF that "ha, ha, ha and as you know, we own the $cience". Own = bought.
The answer is pressure and vacuum different dynamic turbo OMEGA ✨ once you stretch obsolete pressure she will want to be alive and move any direction.
It’s cool but i have questions about the range. It’s a problem with hydrogen/ev cars, with the hydrogen/ice cars it should be 3 times worse. How many laps will the car be able to do at Le Mans before running out of hydrogen and water (but i guess the hydrogen is going to be the biggest problem)? Will it be safe to refuel the car or it may be safer to just change the tanks? How much will the car (with all the hydrogen stuff) weight?
I’m not concerned about the power (even though 410hp and 505nm of torque is not that mindblowing from a turbocharged 2 liters engine) but about the rest: the range, the weight, the refueling.
This is super cool though, but i would’ve liked more details about the consumption and the afr (or i should say afwr, air, fuel and water ratio) to try to understand better the engine.
It's not carrying water.
@@logitech4873 in the video they said they’re using water to cool down the combusion chambers from the enormous heat generated by the hydrogen flame front, distilled water, so i think it’s going to be used in the race car also.
@@lorenzodicosmo2708 I think it's at least partly because there is no air cooling in the engine dyno room. Later in a car, air cooling + a normal radiator might suffice as it's a completely different application.
@@SoofiGaming engine heat is far from chamber heat. The first can vary from a dyno to a car, the second one cannot. Now, i saw this video 11 month ago, i should refresh my mind watching it again, but if i’m remembering well they said they have to run the car with a mix of hydrogen and water (notice that water injection in petrol car is already a thing), so it has to be counted in the afr/afwr, i’m gonna look up this channel if they posted anything new about this fascinating project.
@@lorenzodicosmo2708 oh ok. I did not notice them mentioning water inside the combustion cylinders.
Good
अति उत्तम
Ceramic combustion chamber surfaces??
Elon is not gonna like that this engines looks and sounds great and the engineer sounds like a skinny Shwarneger.
Would rather see this than the forced EV that we are being moved too
I was really surprised to hear that they were using spark-plugs, if hydrogen is as volatile as they said it is.. it seems like they'd just,
do like Diesel, and go compression ignition?
Probably can control the timing better with spark?
Impossible to control a CAI with H2, it is too unstable
Gravity racing is the future of motor sport.
Glad to see the development of H2 combustion engines picks up speed. Same leaque @BOSCH, but already in a race car: ua-cam.com/video/oiD_DDGqkPc/v-deo.html
Water-based EGR system??
Does this still produce NOx emissions?
Yes, you can't get perfect stoichiometry in the real world.
@@lenmetallicaHydrogen engines will release NOx emissions but since water is the predominant fuel source the emission is also water. (Obviously)
Hydrogen engines produce only a very small amount of Nox. It's barely anything.
Finally
Remember the Hindenburg.
Jesus will see me in my Hydrogen/Electric hybrid Porsche slapping curbs like a madman, God bless everyone.
And obviously they went for a ea888 base setup 😅
Research about metal hydride, it can store hydrogen safely without high pressure necessary and store enough in 4 tanks about the size of a regular gas tank and theres a video by helmholtz zentrum and one by bob lazar where he made his own hydrate. Tho hydride is not dangerous it is illegal to sell (not illegal to make your own) and thous hydrogen cars haven't become available. Change the law.
We get 30% + more horse power with our hydrogen on demand We have hard core data from real world data and labs around the world. The hydrogen that we make on demand is 4 times the energy than bottled hydrogen we make a % of monoatomic hydrogen been doing it for 16 years now.
Still no sound but i much prefer this over electric bs
You can hear at 4:55 it still produces noise because it works just like a normal ICE engine just with hydrogen as fuel.
Anything to keep us gearheads happy and satisfied at this point which I won't complain about lol
FYI. Hydrogen is less dangerous than Diesel in an accident. Toyota did all these tests for their H car. In an accident, if there was a H leak, it is gone in seconds. If there is a gas leak, this stays around for hours and can start on fire.
Lots of torque vs hp, more like a diesel lol
install engine in cars sale immediately if you late government block your business i think 😮
Umm wheres the government contracts..to help?
So I am no scientist, engineer or likewise, but how 'green and clean' can it be if it needs alarge kids paddling pool of water for it to work?
👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿🏆🏆🏆👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿🏆
This didn't explain anything about how you are getting transforming fuel from water to hydrogen... I don't care about the performance of hydrogen... Calling BS.
Way to complex and to complicated. Lots of lost energy compressing from gas to liquid. And what about the red hot exhaust. Lost energy😅
Needlessly complex design and still makes the same amount of noise pollution. Just use EV, much more elegant and simple design, reduces noise pollution, cheaper to run in most places, and energy storage convenience will catch up eventually. Leave ICE for the track and racing, use EV everywhere else that commuter practicality is a requirement.
i prefer electric over hydrogen engine Atleast i will not Blast at any cost 😂
Quando arriva in commercio ?
This is stolen tech, I remember a guy invented the first water engine a long time ago, and they made him disappear. Then, all of a sudden, we have these companies suddenly developing the technology 🙄. They did the same with Tesla stole his work, and now we are all having to pay for it in the long run. What this means is that water we take for granted will become more expensive and even more chargeable.
Green and sustainable Is Definitely no one's main goal, quit lying lol
install engine in cars sale immediately if you late government block your business i think
Judging from the complexity of this engine, it is going to be really expensive. Electric cars and better battery tech is the way forward.
I freaking love hydrogen. But maybe that's because I live in a country that produces 98% of its energy fossil-free. 😅
IMO, batteries belong in things like e-bikes and smartphones, NOT a 5000 lbs car.
I hate noise, wouldn't it be better for the city environment if the vehicles are quite like ev?
No
That's much more efficient yeah.
No
Why tell lies ,tell me how hydrogen is compressed,,I I know with fossil fuels ⛽️ 😑
Their motor is great but storing hydrogen is the trick.
Hysata have improved electrolysis, maybe one day...