How to Weld Magnesium Castings
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- Опубліковано 3 січ 2013
- In this episode of TIG Time we look at how to weld Magnesium. We have recently received many requests to do a video on this for a few reasons. One mistake many people make, when welding Magnesium, is that they think, "Because it is AC, it must be just like welding Aluminum". This is not true and we will show you some of the differences. Also, Magnesium is pyroforic, which means it can catch on fire if you do not use the correct process; in this case, TIG Welding.
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We were using a 3/32 diameter 2% thoriated tungsten for this particular demonstration. thanks for watching... Mr. Tig
Why thoriated, isnt it better with a zirconiated tungsten with the Ac curent?
I didn't think it was even possible to weld magnesium. I figured it'd have just burst into flame. So great job!
Beryllium is added to the filler wire to reduce ignition
Great video. However! I would like to add some information based on 25 years + experience. Personally on a casting this thick, I would "V" it out more and turn up the Amps. You wouldn't get much penetration on a casting this thick on 120 Amps without pre-heating it. Even if you used the rule of thumb method 30Amps/1mm your only good for 4mm and a thick casting like this takes some melting. The welded part of the casting is now only as strong as the depth of your filler material you've added. Clamping some flat material across the ears or clamping the casting to the bench would prevent any distortion, not so critical in this instance as the ear is still attached, 99 times out of 100 you will be handed two parts. Checking to see if it has distorted after its been welded without clamping it down beforehand is like shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted, its good practice to clamp when possible to save you having to re weld the job, after grinding out your welds a few times because the jobs no longer flat you quickly realise its not worth taking a chance. After all, the customer is only going to pay you for welding it once. I realise this video is extremely informative, I'm assuming anyone who has sort out this video has done so to pick up some tips.
Another fun fact. Beryllium is added to the filler wire to reduce ignition
Dave, Typically magnesium cannot be brazed because an open flame will ignite the base material. Thus the name "pyroforic". Tig welding is safe because it has an argon inert coverage during the welding phase. Thanks for watching.. Mr. Tig
I've tried recently to repair a broken casting of what I thought was "obviously made from aluminum" (household appliance repair, not for a customer) with oxy-propane, some active flux and tig rods.
Little did I knew before the surface started to crack up, shoot green sparks and all that, I knew something was off and stopped.
I simply didn't know before watching a couple more youtube videos that there are magnesium castings at all
Thanks, Wyatt, this was an extremely helpful video.
Hi Mr. Tig. Thank you! On the next month I`ll weld my first magnesium part and your video will be very helpful.
I’m just sponging the experience! Thank you for this video!
The thumbnail reminds me of the one meme with that guy off history channel 😂
"Welding" 😂
Use white vinegar to tell the difference between magnesium and aluminum. Magnesium will cause the white vinegar to foam like hydrogen peroxide.
Thanx for that tip. I got a VW 1600 case. It should be mag, but if its aluminum, thats gonna make things alot easier for me.
What! I was laughing so hard as I typed "welding magnesium" into the google search area recalling my chemistry fun with magnesium strips and torch-I mean, the stuff *BURNS UNDERWATER* so no joke-and am blown away that people actually _do_ weld these things. The things you learn... I'm humbled.
I'll top that. Years ago when I drank pretty hard, I had a BBQ in the bsck yard. When we finished eatting and I was good and ripped, I decided to throw a few chunks of a VW transaxle case in the fire just to light things up a bit. All I had to do was break it into chunks, which it didnt wanna do. So I sez "Fuck it, the whole bitch burns".
Long story short, g/f gets arrested for assault and battery on a fireman.
Ok. I'm leaving out some key features here.
Needless to say, I had half of Anahiems PD at my house, helicopter/with spotlight finishing our new tan. I dunno how many fire trucks were there, but the bataliion cheif was there AND he was the idiot that decided he was gonna put it out with his fire hose. I told him its magnesium, in a few minuits itll burn itself out. That wasnt soon enough. So grabbed my dog and got away before the explosion.
He turned the hose on it and it was Hiroshima '45 all over again. Thats when my girl lost it and went after him. Cops grabbed her and arrested her.
What a scene.
Annahiem thanks me for not drinking anymore. Lol
your video helps thank you
good stuff... thanks for sharing
I remember what they told us about magnesium in fire training in Navy Basic Training: "How do you put out a mag fire? You DON'T. You give the plane a healthy shove off the side of the carrier. Always wondered how they weld the stuff...
How are you? Nice video! I'm from Brazil and for welding magnesium it's kind of dificult to get the appropriate material, so we usualy deposit AWS ER 4043 or 4047. Do you have any specification about this material posted in this video? I kind of lost the information because my bad english... It's AZ 928 or 92A???
today at work, i disassembled a gearbox from a B-1 Bomber. it's a magnesium casting also. one of the bearings exploded. as i opened it up, chunks of the bearing cage fell out. 3 ball bearings were completely gone and it chunked a hole in the side of the housing. i was told by an engineer that they are going to try to repair it and that's what brought me here to see if it can be done. very interesting.
Please help: Would it be possible to weld 2 aluminum AN10 fittings to a Bmw m50 valvecover (magnesium cast alu) with like that az92?
Magnesium is Pyroforic, meaning it will catch on fire when a flame is introduced. It does not do this with TIG welding because TIG has an argon inert coverage during welding.
So stick would probably catch it on fire? What about brazing it with aluminum?
if all you had was a arc welder do they have rods and can it be done ,,,,i been retired for years all i ended up with is a arc welder just to get by for small jobs ? thanks you do good work
How could anyone give that a thumbs down? Nothing extraneous. No long-winded explanations. All straightforward info. Hmmm...
There all always haters
Nice video, but a few quick improvements might help. W7 (RZ5 or ZE41) weld rod is correct for this casting, not AZ92. Some 14 other weld rods would have been more applicable, due mostly to the aluminum contentin AZ92 that should not be used on Zr containing alloys like ZE41. While the weldrod you used has a melting point closer to 770F, the base metal has a melting temp of over 900.
I like your work :)
Love the n result!
good job
Actually, a magnet will not stick to either material. We have had many questions regarding this, so we are releasing a video this Friday on "How to Tell the Difference Between Magnesium and Aluminum".
What electrode you used? Neat work!
Once I brought a brake shoe with a broken off piece to a aluminum welder, I have always heart it was not possible to weld and he stopped welding after a couple seconds, there was a piece of one or two mm burned off
Hola me gusta los videos d ustedes pero mgustaria saber donde conseguir el aporte d magnesio aqui en ecuador guayaquil no lo encuentro si m pueden ayudar gracias
Hey mister tig ,question:Is everlast a good welder machine?
When determining the difference between cast aluminum and cast magnesium you can easily be fooled. However, merely using a pocket knife to scrape or deburr some shavings into a pile will allow you to use a lighter and determine if it is flammable. Aluminum will not ignite, but magnesium will. Always use adequate eye safety equipment and gloves when igniting.
what type of tungsten do you use?
Do you pre-heat Magnesium?
Stupid question here, what if I use aluminum filler to weld magnesium? will it hold?
Another small correction, you mentioned "as it is a sand casting it has some Si". Neither ZE41 nor AZ92 have meaningful amounts of Si and certainly not intended to have any as it is considered impurity in these alloys.
Sand is SiO2, which is reduced to Si when mixed with magnesium at high temperatures, which will in turn dissolve in the magnesium. So it might or might not be in there, we dont know unless its measured and/or its already a known fact that this does/doesnt happen.
When i worked in a foundry Si was generally added during the casting process to improve the flow of the molten material and often not necessary to the structural integrity of the finished product.
If you want to weld aluminum to magnesium what is the best grade to use
Could you weld magnesium with a stick rod ? And if so which one ?
Cab you advise how to weld VW bug engine block ?
Thanks
Is it possible to use 5356 on magnesium?
Magnesium is flammable, not pyrophoric. Pyrophoric means a substance will ignite on contact with the atmosphere, at or below 55°C. The ignition temperature of Magnesium is much higher than that. An example of something that's pyrophoric is TEB, which is used to start some jet and rocket engines.
Static can actually set off magnesium
I guess I should specify shavings grindings sanding is what he was talking about the oxide from it not the actual material
MAGNESIUM is REACTIVE , not pyroforic or flammable . Uranium is pyroforic
@@timothydisinger9414 Magnesium is absolutely flammable, which is why they sell magnesium bars with a flint attached as fire starters. You scrape off some magnesium shavings and ignite them with the flint to start your fire. You also have a significant fire risk when machining magnesium. Search for "class d fire" and basically any page you click on will mention magnesium.
Bigger pieces can also burn, but the bulk of the material can act as a heatsink to pull the temperature down, there's less surface area available for reaction, and there's an oxide layer that develops that will also slow the reaction down.
you must have magic hands, like with the dcep welding lol :-) soon I will have my welder too with some nice waveforms, really sick of all those years electrode and no gas welding LOL
Have you tried to weld magnesium AZ91?
Inside first; Thanks! Can Magnesium be brazed?
Regards
Dave
Question regarding welding cast magnesium that has a hole in it and/or is very porous due to damage: How to control blow through? Is there an appropriate backing material that should be used to prevent blowing through? For example, I've used copper to keep from blowing through thin steel when filling a hole, is there a similar technique for magnesium? Thank you.
+wetfloorsign Never tried copper under mag. I use it on most other metals all of the time, including aluminum. One thing for certain NOT to try is ceramic (specifically an old toilet tank lid) as the results are disastrous, not to mention dangerous to life and limb! ( I thought it would work, LOL!! )
Thank you Mr. TIG. This is just the video I needed. I have a couple 1600cc VW cases that look like they were cracked and someone JB Welded them. They are both minor, and on the top of the case. How do you feel about welding a magnesium VW engine case?
Wonder how the vw cases turned out. Have same exact issue
@@sooflodiesels I will have a video up soon on my channel 😉
Would like to know this as well.
never a dislike on tig time
Thanks for sharing. What kind of tungsten rod do you use..? Mostly for Aluminium I prefer to use one with Lanthanum, but I have no idea if that's any good for Magnesium.
2% Throriated, but Lanthanated will work too
Weld.com Thank's a lot for the information. ...also for providing such excellent videos.
welder settings?
Is there a way to quickly identify a magnesium alloy? How do you tell the difference between, say, cast aluminum and magnesium metals?
spelunkerd white vinegar
Good video " Pyrophoric".
You are right about the cost of this stuff. Where is the link or place to get smaller quantities of the rod.
www.weld.com/index.php/shop-weld-com/shop-weldcom/filler-metals/magnesium
You can buy in 1/2 pound increments.
+Weld.com I purchased some 5356 fill wire (while getting some 4043 for aluminum) when I was an instructor (not a welding instructor) and an old time welder (who is a welding instructor) told me that was for cast aluminum alloys that have magnesium in them. Will this work for the more pure cast magnesium as well?
@@Welddotcom
I couldn't find the filler rod on weld.com using this link. Is it still available?
does it crack at 7:06?
What about stick welding it? Would it catch fire?
I have been welding magnesium castings for about 14 years and I've never seen a casting start a firer when you're wlelding it.
Really? Stick welding wont catch fire? Are you absolutely sure? I dont want my engine case blazing for hours.
Looked up those rods, and definitely not cheap.
What make this welding machine
a dislike must be a arm chair warrior
Thumbs down cuz whatever he had caught fire. Lol
RIP Mr Tig, 10 years on and I'm still learning from you
he passed ?
@@charlesboston1 car accident 😞
What do you mean it won't catch fire with tig?
What filler rod ?
You would be better off if you grooved the metal deeper. I have found that deeper grooving makes for a stronger weld joint. Good day too.
can you sand your weld and make a video pz and thx!!!....cheers :)
How far do you have the gas flow turned up? Id guess 15-20 pr more?
832 schnellfaheren, whats that in celsius?
Pretty f***ing hot.
"Mr tig" if only I could get your full attention on the basics of the issues with mild steel tig welding, if I can master that, I can move on to the more (in my mind) exotic aluminum, stainless steel, and magnesium. No 6 month course, a day or 5...LOL. I'm 64, more time behind me than in front...LOL
What happened to Mr. Tig?????
he died in a car accident on his way from Florida back to Kansas last (2022) spring ...
Not to derail the thread..great video by the way. Magnesium is pyrophoric but in powdered or fine strips...you're splitting hairs. Hard to ignite in bulk form. Also from Wikipedia.... (Look at Finely divided metals).
White phosphorus, the original "phosphor"
Alkali metals (lithium, sodium, potassium, rubidium, caesium), including the alloy NaK
Finely divided metals (iron,[3] aluminium,[3] magnesium,[3] calcium, zirconium, uranium, titanium, bismuth, hafnium, thorium, osmium, neodymium)
Some metals and alloys in bulk form (cerium, plutonium)
Alkylated metal alkoxides or nonmetal halides (diethylethoxyaluminium, dichloro(methyl)silane)
Potassium graphite (KC8)
Metal hydrides (sodium hydride, lithium aluminium hydride, uranium trihydride)
Methane tellurol (CH3TeH), an analog of methanol where tellurium replaces oxygen
Partially or fully alkylated derivatives of metal and nonmetal hydrides (diethylaluminium hydride, trimethylaluminium, triethylaluminium, butyllithium), with a few exceptions (i.e. dimethylmercury and tetraethyllead)
Copper fuel cell catalysts, e.g., Cu/ZnO/Al2O3[4]
Grignard reagents (compounds of the form RMgX)
Used hydrogenation catalysts such as Raney nickel (especially hazardous because of the adsorbed hydrogen)
Iron sulfide: often encountered in oil and gas facilities where corrosion products in steel plant equipment can ignite if exposed to air.
Lead and carbon powders produced from decomposition of lead citrate[5][6]
Uranium is pyrophoric, as shown in the disintegration of depleted uranium penetrator rounds into burning dust upon impact with their targets. In finely divided form it is readily ignitable, and uranium scrap from machining operations is subject to spontaneous ignition.[7]
Neptunium
Plutonium: several compounds are pyrophoric, and it causes some of the most serious fires occurring in United States Department of Energy facilities.[8]
Petroleum hydrocarbon (PHC) sludge.
+Richard DelTran I really like your metallurgical breakdown and research here, extremely thorough.....but.....back in the 90's I saw two guys working on a broken set of crankcases from a Volkswagen Beetle and when they were welding it up it caught fire and burned with an extremely bright white light until there was nothing left. Also I've known at least a half dozen old Navy men who have told me stories about fires starting in magnesium aircraft parts, them pushing the whole thing over the side of the aircraft carrier(s), and watching it sink ever deeper into the ocean, continuing to burn (underwater!) until it was too deep to see anymore. And I myself set fire to an old right crankcase from a 1976 Husqvarna 360 while welding it (began with a kind of sparkling like seeing stars) with tig w/not enough argon flow/no back purge. It too burned brightly until nothing was left. Also myself and a couple of machinists during lunch break in 1979 set a ball of titanium lathe cuttings of about .005" thickness on fire w/similar results. You were saying....
+Richard DelTran ...almost forgot, after all of my experience w/burning mag and ti, I keep a 'class D' fire extinguisher within reach when welding unknown alloys, they DO work!
Richard DelTran I had cut a cast magnesium chainsaw case and it caught on fire and water wouldn't put it out. had to break the piece off of the case with a hammer so the whole thing would not burn up. It made a very bright white light while burning.
why does weld.com say the AZ92A is a ER80S-D2?
+Fritz Stoop Where did you see that?
+Fritz Stoop Where did you see that?
+Weld.com on the link on the website. click on the product details and it said that on the picture
+Fritz Stoop Thanks for the heads up. It was a mistake. It is fixed now.
Pleasure. Dont want anyone to think bad of you.
Dang, Mr. Tig. I feel like you would warn me about welding galvanized... but no zinc warning for magnesium alloys? It's in there, maybe you're not working hot enough to vaporize it? I dunno, arc plasma is damn hot...
So no Stick welding, then?
You dont weld magnesium whit a sharp tungsten
You may be mister Tig (lmao) but you sure aren't mister metrology!
I think you mean Metallurgist !!
I understand you want to teach the theory, technique, and the art of TIG welding. But could you add a quick idea about billing out a job such as this magnesium sand casting repair. After all, time is money and money is time. And I know I will have a much better chance of prying the cash out of THE BOSS's cold-hearted hands to buy my equipment, if I can show her this video and tell her "The prep and clean the crack would take 15 minutes and the weld would take another 15 minutes for a 30 minute total, billed out at 2 dollars a minute or say $60.00 for the job". Please understand I have NO IDEA how to estimate a new job charge that is fair for my customer and fair for me. We both should feel happy about the bill. Whether you put that information in the comments or say it during the weld would not matter to me. I can't be the only Newbe out here in You Tube Land. Thanks for your consideration.
you are not Mr Tig
I love how he checked flatness with a Tri square, that was hilarious. There are much better videos out there I hope nobody is taking this guy serious.
Should be wearing gloves when working with acetone. Acetone is nasty stuff and will wreck your body. I hope there are safer alternatives to acetone for cleaning filler rods and the piece(s) of metal you are welding on.
I hate when every youtube video is "what I do or what I like to do or what I usally do" you should have some real data calculations or tests why do something or why one way is better that another.
+Sorry my english is so suck Having been in the field for 40 years, I can tell you that when someone has that kind of experience, you should probably listen to what they're saying regardless of the words they use. If it's some young kid out of college or trade school, then you'd better get after some 'real data calculations or tests" as you put it!
+timm white I have been wipingu ass woth 60 grit sandpaper and I feel It helps with the itching in my ass.
...and still don't have a clue, do you?
+timm white no i have been doing this for 40 years
That may be the case, but I have worked since 1975, learned all I possibly could, and did NOT burn all that knowledge away with alcohol and drugs. Hopefully your experience/memory is also still intact as well! God bless.