What Happened To THE THIEF AND THE COBBLER (Original vs Disney Cut)
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- The Thief and The Cobbler is easily the most bizarre and strange animated movies ever made. But few people know the insane story behind the creation of this movie and how it turned into the Disney/Miramax version that's become far more popular. In this review we'll cover the entire crazy history of this film and finally answer the question of what happened to The Thief and The Cobbler.
Timestamps
0:00 - Intro/The Production
16:59 - The Original Cut
31:05 - The Fred Calvert Cut
38:02 -The Disney Cut
43:25 - Conclusion
Sources
www.traditionalanimation.com/...
www.rogerebert.com/features/t...
www.cbr.com/the-thief-and-the... - Фільми й анімація
The craziest thing is that this film started production when my parents were less than 5 years old and it didn't even see the light of day in the Miramax cut till I was born. My parents went through childhood, attended college, got married and had me all within the span of this film's production. That's insane.
Oh my goodness.
Truly their generation's Half-Life 3
Don't worry, Yandere Simulator will break that record.
it really isn't
Its the same feeling as being aware that my parents grew up watching the Simpsons
Can you imagine what this film could have been if Williams fully completed it in his vision?
yes. still not complete.
the man said multiple times that he is a perfectionist and he will never stop working on a scene until he felt satisfied.
I'd still think Kimi no Na Wa had better characters.
No. He didn’t have a story. If you lack a story I can’t see your vision no matter what you do because you don’t have a vision.
@@juuchan5795 but he won’t work on a story for those senes to give life too. The senes are useless without a story.
no :'-(
Just imagine how much heartache could have been avoided if they'd storyboarded before starting the animation.
Or even if they just swallowed their pride and reigned themselves in a bit.
Yeah, this makes me think of how Arcane was in production for 6 years or so, but it was mainly from writing for it. I don't how long it would have taken to make if they hadn't made sure they had a solid roadmap of the story first. You need to have a good solid foundation for something as ambitious as animation, especially when it's a passion project.
They did, they just hadn't done it for the whole film until WB came in.
Please check your sources.
@@steamboatwill3.367 Oh, where did you get that info? I'd love a link if you can!
This topic intrests me, so I'd be happy to look into it
@@yeetneat ) Garret Gilchrist,
he also posted a lot of early material ( including the script ), showing it was being planned out.
I want to see the "three hours of unstructured nonsense without a narrative" version...
Yes
we probably wouldnt be able to because of the book's influence, sadly
@@aspenrose_ idk the book bc I'm from another country, so, perhaps?
@@maatoangeleri2913 no i just mean it no longer has the rights to use the book's content so it probably cant be released
You’d lose so many brain cells so quickly, and that’s why I also need to watch it
Finally someone who recognizes William's faults. The story of this movie is frustrating because every time he had a chance to finally make his movie he totally messed up and screwed himself. All because he was never satisfied with anything and kept sinking money into making the animation something insane.
these false claims have been repeated constantly and you say "finally someone says the same lies again"?
seriously, non of that is true.
@@steamboatwill3.367 what the fuck are you talking about?
@@gnammyhamster9554 ) I could ask you the same
( sry, I got no notification )
Steamboat Will3 What is the truth, to your understanding? Do you have a source to back up your claims? If so, please share!
I think I would be the same if I were in charge of people for an animation project. Maybe I will have better luck with A.I.
Does anyone else wonder why they decided to give Tack such a *deep* voice each time? Whenever I look at him that is NOT the kind of voice I expect to come out, even if he weren't supposed to be mute. Matthew Broderick got the closest in pitch imo
Probably for some kind of comedic effect, to catch you off guard at the very end
@@FuchsiaNeko Even if that's the case, I feel like having him narrate *everything* kind of strips the joke of being well... funny.
I think just giving him that one "I love you" line with the oddly deep, mature voice would've been fine
I think not crediting the VA either makes it even funnier
@@numburger oh I'm not defending the unneeded narration they add to the movie at all, I agree that the best cuts of the movie have the "I love you" line as Tack's only dialogue (narration or otherwise.)
The only version I've seen in full is the most recent Re-cobbled cut, and interestingly enough I saw that they credited Sean Connery as Tack (iirc)??? I don't even know if it's a real credit or a joke but it's so surreal lol
I feel like back in the day when people couldn't hire an actual voice actor they would hire someone who read books on tape or did narration voice over for cheaper. And it was always these baritone grandpas
If I were to give him a voice (tho i prefer him mute) id give him a very soft, quiet voice, probably to compare him to the mouse he befriends in the prison. maybe even have his voice evolve through the film, but only once they reach the desert. like how he became stronger and with a tanner complexion
tack has so much charm as a character, the way they made his nails in his mouth his way of communicating his emotions is so incredibly clever. giving him a voice almost completely ruins that tho lol
i know! a mute character can be amazing! it just has to be well done! and it was! they just ruined it with a voice
@@lrkeribergaard6110 I wouldn't go as far as saying they ruined him. Feels a bit rude to say it's ruined simply because he has a voice. He still remains a mainly mute character, however we're forgetting the context that the moment he revealed his voice was one of the most precious and private moments of his life. I mean he's using it to confirm his love for Princess Yum-Yum. In that case, I think him revealing his voice, something secretive and keeps about himself, just to say I love you back shows how much he loved her.
Really, why're you guys saying that his expressions are ruined just because he has a voice? He's still expressive. It's just that he'll now be verbally expressive with Princess Yum-Yum, but that still doesn't change how he treats others with his nonverbal expressiveness (and professing his love for her might be the only time he'll ever use his voice).
@@user-wn3wv5bx5e no....i'm saying the fact they made him a narrator ruined it
F
Ffff🔮🏺🛡🧨🪦 f
F
As someone who wants to work in animation, this film and the quality of the animation AMAZES me. Just the fact that, only 40 animators, managed to make something so fluid and beautiful, while working with PAPER as well, is a testament to how animation is one of the hardest medians to work it when it comes to film, and art.
One of my favourite scenes in the movie (while a typical choice) is the scene where Tack chases the thief through the castle. I can't imagine how long that took each animator, how many times they had to hear the sound of paper flipping in their hands, their pencils scratching against the paper as they quickly sketch some of the most smooth animation I've seen so far with my 16 years on earth, and as a child who would constantly watch animation and still does.
This movie inspires me, and while it's production was a living hell I wish I will never have to go through as an inspiring animator, makes me thankful we have this art form.
Vincent Price's last word on his deathbed was reputedly "Balls!" - while he was near the end, his friends and family were gathered around playing a trivia game and someone got the question "If you have [condition] you have three of this" and Price shot up, said the word, and then passed away. I speculate, if this story is indeed true, that the reason he knew of that condition was from having worked on this movie where there are multiple references to the _three balls_ and, being an intellectual with a sense of humor, would likely have looked up to see what the name of such a condition would be called and retaining that memory.
True or false, the story is hilarious.
I like how Disney used Vincent Price as Professor Ratigan for the Mouse Detective. Guess they agreed he made a boss villain. Even Scooby Doo & Marvel modeled (non villain) characters after Vince; Vincent Van Ghoul & Dr. Strange.
I’m doubtful it’s real.
For those wondering, the condition is known as both 'triorchidism' and 'tritestes'.
@@LordIsrafel I was wondering, thank you. And it was most likely "triorchidism" that was in use in the trivia game, if indeed this story isn't completely made up.
>Struggling with budget
>Hire a famous actor to make bird noises
Reminds of High Guardian Spice having money troubles but Raye apparently hired 8 storyboard artists for just one episode.
I mean....giving a group of Irish people booze and recording the outcome will lead to comedy gold.
the Disney version was one of those movies, that as a kid I watched every day for months and some of the thief's lines are still regularly featured in my vocabulary. I knew it had a weird production history but never any of the specifics about what that meant.
I'll have to check out the Recobbled version. I'm sure my brain will think it's extremely weird because of how familiar I am with the Disney cut, but still
You can watch the Recobbled version here on UA-cam for free. I think it's quite beautiful.
Your comment is exactly why I'm here. Somehow I never knew the back story and only ever saw the Disney version. Tonight, I found the Recobbled version and could not figure out why it was different than I remembered. The music, no internal dialog from the thief and of course the unfinished frames gave it away. I got maybe 10 minutes in and now I'm here. I still quote the thief, especially in my head - of course.
I watched the Miramax movie maybe once or twice 7 years ago because I was obsessed with the history and animation of the original and I couldn't find where to watch that version. I cannot even remember if I watched any or all of the Recobbled cut when I discovered that channel. Even tho it was one of the first channels I started following. My memory is ABYSMAL which makes it even more amazing to me that when I watched the full Recobbled Cut with my brother a couple nights ago, so many of ZigZag's sayings jumped right to the front of my brain. I blurted a couple out loud before he said them. I musta been chanting those like nursery rhymes for them to have stuck with me. This is one of those movies you never forget, whichever version you watch.
I grew up with the one titled The Thief and the Cobbler. My sister and I would continuously rent it at the video store. My parents even asked the staff if we could buy the video as we rented at least 5 or 6 times XD We really loved that movie. I enjoyed the music etc so much. Still wonder where the video cassette ended up as we moved over to DVD's. Such nostagia...
Apparently the movie got a DVD release at some point. We have a copy. Though we also used to have the VHS. And we also watched it a lot. That poor cassette almost torn with how much it was watched.
@@Lyladagger02 Ahh so lucky!! But I am glad not to be the only one watching the VHS to shreds XD
I found a DVD release at a used movie sale. My wife thought I was nuts for wanting to pick it up and even more so upon seeing the unfinished nature of it.
This video makes me want to dig out my copy and watch it again to see
@@wafflebroz It would be amazing to re-discover the copy you already have :)
This was the version id seen as a child
What I always hated was Tak's change of color palette and suddle design changes. I actually really liked the black and white palette with his mouth barely making an appearance when he turns to the side. Even the circular face I loved.
But when it got to the end... He just looks like any other disney prince. Especially Aladdin.
Isn’t the point to this like… the fact that love literally changed him?? 💀
@@chicoscraps I'm talking about the appearance, not the mentality.
@@moxyalternis2016 ..dawg that’s the point the fact that he goes from pale white to tan is literally how love changes him
@@chicoscraps Believe what you want man. But to me and how I believe 1960s cartoon adult movies are made don't change your skin color by the power of love.
@@chicoscraps him turning to tan was just him...tanning
Yeah walks in the desert does that
“A little known guy by the name of Steven Spielberg” Yeah, I think I’ve heard of that guy before XD
I’m impressed by your final take on who is responsible for the failure of this movie’s production. I totally agree with it, Williams became his own worst enemy in the end. Still managed to direct one of my favorite animated-ish movies: Who framed Roger Rabbit.
Thanks man! I was surprised at how many twists and turns there were in this story
He didn't direct Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Robert Zemeckis did.
I had no idea that Williams was involved with Who Framed Roger Rabbit! The Thief and the Cobbler was a film I rewatched many times when I was little and I’m planning to watch it again; the only difference is that I’ll be watching it as an adult for the first time.
Who Framed Roger Rabbit has been one of my all time favorite films since I first watched it as a kid with my mom, and so has the Thief and the Cobbler. The only other movie that comes close is the 1994 Thumbelina with Jodi Benson. Finding out that two of the movies in my top 5 of all time involved the same man makes me think that perhaps Williams brought a certain charm to his works.
He was undeniably brilliant, I wish we could’ve seen his final vision for the Thief and the Cobbler.
Walt Disney and John Lasseter won the same award that Richard received for Roger Rabbit. These other rewards came from Snow White and Toy Story respectively
The workprint's score is combined with various pieces of classical music and original scores from some of Williams's band friends. The Recobbled Cut utilizes more original scores than the workprint.
I agree with your point overall that ZigZag is one of, if not the best animated villain. He's so entertaining and cracked me and my friend more than we should've.
I disagree HEAVILY with your views on Williams in the conclusion. He didn't go as a full control freak, the bigger studio executives misinterpreted him as a person who didn't care about animation when in reality, this film was his "reason for living." Still, a cautionary tale of not going too far into seeking perfection when fulfilling a dream.
I really enjoyed hearing your opinions, thank you for this. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna allow my friend to witness the Miramax cut since her brain is too accustomed to the Recobbled Cut
I feel pity for Williams, but his treatment of the staff is pretty inexcusable.
I don't think his love for animation and his willingness to work on his dream film, his reason for living, really outdoes everything he did wrong. Like you said, he went too far to achieve his dream. And it cost him in the end.
@@EmilyWhite2013z ) source, don't make claims like that without any evidence.
@@ZilbaFollie ) you can say for every filmmaker ever.
I saw the first recobbled version, just putting together incomplete animation and storyboards which was interesting to see but the pacing is just so horrid and found myself board seeing it. However when I saw the lastest that had ever scene animated, I found myself more engaged. Also Fun Fact, Richard Williams did not want any loops in the film what so ever. Even the part that could have been loops such as the flies on the thief or Zigzags walking on the carpets, all drawn over and over again.
huh, maybe the animation wouldnt have taken so long if hed been ok with a couple loops..
omg i saw this movie a few days ago and was literally wondering why they didn’t just loop the animation of tak filing the prison bars. with the jagged movements he was making he was definitely not escaping any time soon lol.
goes to show that working harder isn’t always superior to working smarter.
where's the one with every scene animated? is it a new recobbled cut or something?
@GaeBowz I think they just mean the Miramax version. And while I agree it flows easier (constant cutting to storyboards is distracting) I can NOT stand the constant mental chattering.
A lot of people wanted to twist this story to make it seem like Disney ruined the film to make their Aladdin movie look better, or how the Disney company is the "bad guy" here.
To be honest, that narrative was so widespread I even thought that when I started making the video. It was only when I got into the research that I realized that the complete opposite was true
@@4shame It's very similar to when people tried to make Lion King look like a bad movie by calling it a "blatant rip-off" of Tezuka's Jungle Emperor series or try to claim that Scar and the hyenas are communists or something.
@@4shame Nah. corporations aren't your friends. Stop simping for them. There's a lot of outright horse shit and misinformation in your video, but I guess shitting on dead animators is what rakes in the algorithm nowadays.
@@mikeykitty1235 But the lion king IS anti-communist propaganda,
1. The lions are the "good proper rulers who deserve everything" while the hyenas are the "vultures who scavenge skeletons" when Hyena's are allowed to live as lions the whole world goes to shit, i.e. good things only exist for lions not hyenas.
2. While the salutes and goose stepping are pretty common throughout history they are commonly associated with authoritarian regimes, this with the gas/lighting showing the hyenas as the "evil army" opposed to the suppressed underclass.
I mean, it wouldn't be so out of character from Disney
I was wondering why the snippets you showed looked so familiar to me... Then it hit me. The whole film looks like a one a half hour Felix Colgrave animation. The colors, the characters, the style. It's so... Vivid, fluid, schitzophrenic yet logical. It's got a really specific feel to it, the same feeling I had while watching Felix's animations. It's insane.
Felix colgrave is the exact person that came to mind when watching this movie! God is he amazing
Yeesss the minute the film started all i could think was ooohhh double king
From what I can tell of Williams, he was extremely passionate about his craft. And about making movies, but he was very much an animators animator. And I think in the end that obsession somewhat blinded him to the rest of the process....like having a story And...keeping to a budget...and...not spending half the alloted time animating zigzags shoes. (Though they are spectacular ngl)
If you let yourself sink that deep into something without considering the bigger picture. Then the sunk cost fallacy is going to bite you in the ass. Hard. I can see how, easily it would drive you bonkers. If you poured so much of yourself into something for so long, That doesn't excuse it mind you. But it is sad.
I remember an interview he did a few years before he died, where he spoke about how much he wanted to finish the theif and the cobbler. If only he could live long enough to see it through.
He might not have managed that. But what there is is well worth celebrating. As is Rodger rabbit. And the animation books and courses that he wrote, which have become standard texts in the industry now.
Or the flies on the thief's head.
This is why movies with an emphasis on the visuals tend to have very barebones stories. Every scene takes A LOT of time and money to animate, so if on the off chance you needed to overhaul the script (or write one in the first place), you don't need to throw months or years of work down the drain to fix it.
They had a script and book since the beginning of production
Can I just say that I absolutely adore Tack's design?
Fun Fact: In the early 2000s, Disney originally had plans to do an official restoration of the original film that would've been helmed by Roy E. Disney instead of the God-awful Weinsteins and their company, Miramax. However, due to the lackluster reception to Disney's own 2D films at the time, ongoing tensions between Roy and then Disney CEO Michael Eisner (causing the former to leave Disney) and Roy's eventual passing in 2009, would put the kibosh on any plans for an official restoration.
So the recobbled is actually the reclaimed! Reclaimed by the true underdogs of the situation, the fans who were left to wait for too damn long.
Totally agree, it's easy to tell a tale of a creative genius that has had their magnum opus stolen by a faceless corporate.
And yes, you can take a hundred years perfecting your craft. But as soon as you start messing around with someone else's money, and outright lying to them with false promises, then that narrative goes completely out the window.
but that's exactly what happened.
@@steamboatwill3.367 Yeah, but it wouldn't have happened if William hadn't been messing around with someone else's money, lying, been generally toxic on set, among others stuff like being way too much of a perfectionist for his own good.
@@garcyrosey7424 ) source.
@@garcyrosey7424 ) can you stop spreading missinformation.
is trying to defame, insult and cancel talented people your only hobby?
how low.
@@steamboatwill3.367 do you really have to comment on everything
Seeing all this footage of this film is like watching a fever dream play out. I remember bits and pieces but never would've remembered anything without seeing it first. I distinctly remember owning the VHS and watching it multiple times but barely remember any of it outside of the animation. Interesting deep dive and great video!
As an irish person i am so proud of the drunk irish people for doing such a good job
I watched the recobbled version a few years ago and it has since been one of my favorite movies ever. I also have a bit of a guilty pleasure for the thief scenes personally, like I love seeing him just constantly get his ass handed to him for tryna steal stuff. It’s charming. The thief and Tack are probably two of my favorite animated movie characters.
Universal Pictures was founded in 1912 by Carl Laemelle. and the studio that Spielberg made in 1989 was Amblimation.
I see. I think my confusion here came from his creation of DreamWorks, which itself is a subsidiary of Universal Pictures as well as the fact that Amblin is headquartered in Universal Studios, Universal City.
@@4shame I see. Amblimation was built in London. in 2000. Disney was originally going to restore The Thief in original by Walt Disney Feature Animation when Richard Williams showed his workprint version to Roy E Disney, and he agreed to do it.
Ok so im obsessed with your content and style. Dude this is an amazingly thorough and entertaining video. Youre a gem and yeah this legendary story is a huge historical wow
Thank you so much! I’m extremely grateful that you enjoy my content!
Given how the cliche is that indie devs are good guys and studios are evil, it was actually quite exciting to find out that wasn't the case. Nothing about the truth was less interesting than the false narative. It's a sadder story, and not one I would rather have happened, but it is more notworthy.
This was such a wild story. Thank you for telling it, and being as accurate as you possibly could. I have a huge interest in animation, and while I realised years ago I will never be an animator, that I can't handle that level of work, I've never stopped loving it. As in the behind the scenes stuff, seeing how others put that work in. I have so much respect for animators, and the fact they made this movie on 1s is insane! Years of work could have been saved if they'd just done it on 2s like a more normal studio. And if they saved years of time, then this might have come out on time, and this story might have had a happy ending. The level of ambition was just absurd. But this also feels like a great lesson in how sheer quality and talent don't mean anything for someone that does no preparation. The story being absent for most of it's production... I can't get how anyone can work with that. A story of a true madman.
I'm glad fans were able to do such a good job in restoring this to it's best version. Shame that there's still a movie's worth of content missing. But that fans were able to do this, had access to the parts they needed, that's really been great. And I wish more cancelled or rushed movies could get the fan treatment. I often think about what fans could do if we ever got hold of those completed but unused scenes from Black Cauldron. So in the end I still see this as a happy story, just for what the fans did. That a cast of people working for free, and just passion, were able to give this movie that bit of love and care. It's not something I think anyone would believe could happen if I went back in time and told them. That fans would have the talent or dedication to do something like that. But despite how poorly companies treat 2D animation these days, I've never seen a fanbase be stronger.
If it was animated on 2s it wouldn't look as impressive
The voices in the Disney cut definitely sounds better for the princes and Tac, but I do really love the versions where Tac is mute till the end. I’d still love it even if he didn’t speak by the end. Whenever I’m reminded of this strange movie, I’ll definitely remember it fondly, even if I didn’t quite understand what I was watching when I saw it.
You know, you're one of the few if not only reviewer/analyst of The Thief and The Cobbler that actually calls attention to Williams' own shortcomings and contribution to how and why his passion project ended up failing. Also, the Big Studio being the villain in these stories is more often than not a falsehood, they generally don't infer unless there are already problems, Blade Runner is the exception, not the rule.
uhm....
Literally every essay on the film has done that when it's not even true.
What are you talking about?
and yes, it is the studios fault.
@@steamboatwill3.367no, it’s that liar Richard William fault
@@ninjadejedi ) you got nothing better to do?
The Fred Calvert version was what I grew up with, I thought? But then I heard the narration and was like "No, that's a completely different voice." Turns out it was the Disney cut, and I had no idea Disney was involved in any way.
Also the brigands' song is _masterful_ and alone makes these cuts of the movie worthwhile.
You could write a whole movie based on just the production of this movie. It's insane.
I stumbled across a video several years ago that had me go and watch "The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled". I appreciate art and animation but don't wikihole or consider myself an animation nerd, but...
THIS HAUNTS MY HIPPOCAMPUS, AND IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE WORKS OF ART.
I learned more new facts about this today so thank you for bringing everyone a fresh video on the subject!
Back in 2015/2016 there abouts Richard Williams came to a screening of the workprint of the Thief and The Cobbler in the BFI in London, I remember clearly during the Q+A some people bugging him with questions on the recobbled cut and it would be charitable to describe his attitude towards the recobbled cut as not charitable at best, and at worst when the person kept insisting on getting him to talk about it became quite hostile. The man just did not have any time for the topic. It had nothing to do with him.
I had never heard of this project before.
So I find it hilarious that after watching this video, when I returned to UA-cam's home page, "The Thief & The Cobbler [Recobbled Cut - Workprint - Director's Cut]" showed up in my Recommended feed (along with a few of your videos on other subject matter).
Gotta love that algorithm.
actually longest film in production is not the thief and the cobbler it's a movie called the overcoat a russian movie that is still in production for 10 years longer than this movie and that is also not finished not even close but what came out is too impressive so I really recommend you give that a watch and make a video on it. it's made by Yuri Norstein and his wife, they are now in their 80s so the movie is not expected to be finished which is a shame, but yuri and his wife are the best animators in russia and possibly the entire world since they won world's best animated movie back in the 1980s. please check it out if you can it has a story as interesting as the thief and the cobbler (in the production) .
I swore I heard of a movie made in the 50s that is still in production to this very day
I really like the complete production history of The Thief & The Cobbler.
It's such an amazing tale of animation and it's a fine piece of film history.
It's so sad that Williams never got to finish the movie he wanted to make.
there has never been a more niche video that I've clicked on in a millisecond. Thank you for telling the fascinating story oof this film's production. I LOVE this movie so, so much. This deserves the same attention Rock 'N Rule was given.
46:13 yeah thats fair enough. I mean its not even really a villain hero story, its more of just a fact of life. You can spend 30 years on one thing and it still wont turn out. If you just get worked up about it, try to lie and cheat just to scrap it together, you'll just end up with something thats half finished anyways. People might enjoy that, but, wouldnt you rather spend less time, knowing you'll actually get something out there that's finished? Its also a lesson in planning, you cant dive head first into something and expect it to be coherent. Not really planning things out can give freedom, but freedom isnt always a good thing. There was some good potential here, and some neat things that came out of it, but overall it was a mess because it was too ambitious. And thats the key, keep your ambition in check. 20 decent things each made in a month is better than one supposedly great thing you make for over a year, especially when youve never really made *anything* before.
are you kidding?
@@steamboatwill3.367 im completely serious. I have a lot of life experience learning this exact lesson over and over. I just need to keep the scope small, and not bite off more than I can chew. This is clearly the worst case scenario for the mentality I tend to struggle with. Three freaken decades just to make something that seems neat, but hardly even exists. No thank you.
@@Yipper64 ) you obviously don't know how animation is done.
@@steamboatwill3.367 Look I know how projects work. I make indie games, that involves animation, and a lot more than that. Sound design, programming, everything. I know how a project comes together. I may not know intimately how it all works from experience but neither do you. It all takes time, but thats why you shouldnt make things ambitious, time is a resource you only ever have less of. Make the most of it instead of toiling at one single thing for far too long.
@@Yipper64 ) you can't do anything without ambition
We dont need Animation to look photorealistic
We need Animation to look like something impossible
Very strange watching the animation quality of a team of people and comparing it to one person (Felix Colgrave) who could feasibly complete the film by himself in Flash.
Did u read my mind or what becuz that was the exact same thing I was thinking when i saw the animation
The Amazing Nazrudin - title 1
The Majestic Fool - title 2
Nazrudin - title 3
Tin Tack - title 4
The Thief - Title 5
Once - Title 6
The Thief and the Cobbler - title 7
The Princess and the Cobbler - title 8
Arabian Knight - title 9
The Recobbled Cut* - title 10*
*Not sure what exact title recobbled cut use.
IT has to be said 9 alternate titles to one film has to be record. Not to mention all the multiple alternate cuts.
Where's the thief who never gave up?
Omg I didn’t know there were so many versions of this movie :o. I honestly really liked that the thief could talk in the Disney version as a kid. It made the movie more funny and enjoyable, basically comedic relief. I just wish I could rewatch the movie on Netflix like I used to.
I need to look into the recobbled version because I absolutely adore this damn movie. Netflix had the Disney iteration about 7 years ago. I got my husband (then my fiancé) to watch it with me and at the end, he said "What the fuck did I just watch?" 😂
Giving Tack THAT voice is a PERSONAL attack on me
OHHHH MY GOD, I'VE SEEN THIS MOVIE, I WATCHED THIS AS A KID ON NETFLIX AND IT FEELS LIKE A FEVER DREAM IN RETROSPECTIVE!!! This movie has genuinely been sitting in the back of my mind since I saw it, I'll occasionally remember the part where tack breaks out of prison with the file, think "man, that was a thing", and go about my day
I'll admit, I've never heard of the Thief and the Cobbler until this year. However, the fluid animation looks so familiar that I feel as though I've seen it, even for just a few seconds. It's an amazing animation project.
I agree that the Disney and Calvert cuts didn't live up to the expectation of the original. I'm excited for the WIP remap on The Thief and the Cobbler Archive Official channel. I don't know when the whole thing will be finished, and they work on it but by bit when they have time. It's definitely a project of love, and that's something that can't be rushed. It's too bad how long it took William to work on it, and he couldn't even see his project to completion. I hope, wherever he is, he sees the dedication that other people show as they try to finish the movie in his vision.
i witnessed a literal kimba moment when bionicpig released his video on the thief and the cobbler... it was hilariously bad that his outrageous stretches wanted to paint that narrative that aladdin was ripping of the thief and the cobbler.
thanks for properly presenting the facts in this video. i really needed the information
how?
@@steamboatwill3.367 whoops i miswrote my comment, i gotta edit it real fast real quick
This is the most impressive analysis of The Thief and Cobbler I've ever seen. Amazing job! You've earned a subscriber
Describing the production as a tragedy was EXACTLY what I was thinking!
Three videos in a row came on for me with youtube autoplay and I listened thinking, "Wow! With my interest in animation why haven't I heard of this guy before?", before then seeing your subcount. The quality of your videos and insight is unmatched! I wish you widespread success and thank you for your work.
growing up I had a bootleg vhs of the movie, it had “the cobbler and the thief” written on the tape, but I now know the footage was of the Disney cut. It was one of my favorites as a kid, but I didn’t meet anyone who knew what I was talking about when I brought it up until I was 20. I’m so glad all this interest in the film is making feel a little less crazy 😅
they animated scenes... before writing a script. Dear god.
no they didn't,
What is he talking about with Steven Spielberg founding universal? Universal has been around 100 plus years. Spielberg founded DreamWorks and Amblin Entertainment
All I will say, I had this movie as a kid, dunno which version. I clicked on this video after seeing the thumbnail and being like "you saw this fever dream too?"
All I remember are some of the character designs, the fact that the Cobbler didn't talk, and that as a kid I had no IDEA what the HECK was happening at any given point during the film.
Saw this movie somewhere when I was little and a few images stuck in my brain and always wondered what the heck was that movie. I found it recently and fell in love with a dreamy childhood memory again. Watching this video and seeing what the heck this is , is amazing. Awesome research for a strange and impressive movie
this also happened to me, but the images stuck in my head i couldnt find in the movie anywhere! im not sure where they came from
I can't get over that line Princess Yum Yum said that was just straight up a read line. Just straight up flat voice read line.
I think there are a lot of films that end up not being made, and I personally think thats usually for the best, as usually if they are in production hell for an extended period of time that means everything about the film is outdated by the time it *would* have other wise come out. Not in this case, more or less. It sounds like this film had a lot to offer, if not just out of pure novelty. And its 2D animated, which is more or less timeless.
Thank you for doing this. I was born in 68 and have always been the biggest fan and consumer of animation and puppet shows. In fact I am thinking of getting a Gigglesnort Hotel tattoo...
Anyhoo my kids just turned me on to this and now I see what inspired Felix Colegrave. He should be the one to fix it. Thanks again. You are consise and precise and I will follow you for a minute til this all goes away
Fantastic video, your content really deserves a lot more recognition! I’ve always been very drawn to this film, there’s something so fascinatingly mysterious and weird about it. I hope that we can see more animated art films like this in the future, ones that don’t fall victim to poor workplace behavior and actually manage to get finished, that is!
I remember watching this when I was a kid, but for some reason I didn’t know what it was called(lol), but it’s nice to see this movie again. I also remember Tack being my favorite character, bec I thought he was adorable 😂
"Cursed" hardly begins to explain it
I saw the Recobbled Cut a couple years ago. It was the most beautiful animated creation I've ever seen.
Williams did not direct Who Framed Roger Rabbit, he supervised the animation on it.
The cost of perfection is infinite.
How did I not know that Vincent Price voiced a character in this movie?! Of course Zigzag is the best character, his VA is Vincent Price, a legend!
Vincent Prince is the only VA that's in all versions of the movie
I have no idea how or why you ended up on my suggested but I'm glad it did. That was a great listen with a soothing as hell tone.
Production hell doesn’t even come close to describe the history of this film.
It be more along the lines of production purgatory.
this is one of my favorite movies, despite it never really getting "finished". I still go back and watch clips of ZigZag, Vincent Price as the voice actor and the animations fluidity is enchanting almost
Theres something so appealing about the cobblers design and mannerisms i find endearing.
Holy shit this unlocked memories of seeing this as a young kid. Wild that I'd completely forgotten this and hadnt heard about it for decades
Spielberg only made a minor backlog of films for Universal Studios about 45 yrs ago now. Part of which were for his Amblin studio there.
*And Universal was actually established from 110 years.*
This story is crazy...I love it!!!
Okay I get that there were changes in future versions that you didn't like, and changes that were completely objectively bad. But the thief's inner dialogue is one of the highlights of the movie that's a fact. It's definitely not narration because he's not narrating his actions, he's just talking to himself. Also I don't find tac's narration bad at all, it fits perfectly but I guess ch that's just me.
I totally agree with you! The only version I’ve ever watched was this one and his dialogue is probably one of the main reasons why I am obsessed with it. It’s just funny to me. I mean the animation and old vibes it portrays is awesome but the thief is amazing! Tac too!
I appreciate the fact that you placed a time stamp on the part of the video that I clicked for instead of forcing me to skip through the video to find the part. Good channel, cool person. 8/10
Richard Williams is the perfect example of why artists need to learn to “kill their darlings.” The thief and the cobbler is that one project every artists has that they keep coming back to and keep changing and adding on to in the hopes it will evolve into something great one day, but never does. Except most people know when to move on. Richard was a stubborn perfectionist and contrary to what the video title suggests, Disney gave him the means to start production on the thief and pushed him out of his comfort zone with Roger rabbit. The bottom line is when you try to oversee and do everything yourself and at the same time, try to one up yourself, you’re never going to reach the end. The later versions of thief were literally just people saying hey Richard, we know this isn’t your vision, but either you die clutching your unfinished film in your hands or we let people at least see what’s there now. The studios weren’t the villains here, it was just that this guy couldn’t’ let go of his unfinished dream. It was like building a car, but you get money and instead of finishing the car with the money, you upgrade the engine. Than someone gives you more money to finish it, and you instead upgrade the sound system, and so on until you’ve got a hot rod with no wheels or brakes, just sitting there on blocks in a parking lot.
Loved this video, you did an amazing job, thank you for covering this obscure gem that I thought was lost to time.
Fun fact: At the end of the original cut of the movie when Tack speaks, Sean Connery was supposed to voice him for his one line, but he reportedly never showed up so a friend of Richard’s wife stepped in to voice Tack for that scene
This is so fascinating, loved your narration.
Holy crap!!! Having seen this movie only once when it first came out (Miramax) I've thought about this movie on and off for years but I had completely forgotten what it was called! People thought I was crazy when I tried to describe it. Thank you so much for this video! 💚
This is definitely a lost media of Disney because no one ever talks about this film
And your conclusion I agree with you on especially since lying about a project especially if there’s a deadline
This is so confusing because I grew up on the Disney cut but I remember it being called the thief and the cobbler
I really prefer Tack voiceless and only just saying something at the end. The tacks on his mouth to express his emotion is just the most genius idea 🥲
A story of tragedy about Hard work not paying out and people so invested into the hard work they rushed it's completion to get some sort of return on it.
I loved this movie. The beginning has some of the best animation ever.
I remember Doug Walker's video on this movie.
Now I see that He only scratched the surface of the nightmare that was this production.
I remember watching this film so many times and the way the ground was done really freaked me out with how trippy it was
This was such a surreal experience watching this video. I remember being obsessed with this movie as a kid, but after your video, I think I must have watched 2 versions without even realizing it? I have always remembered the movie being “The Thief and The Cobbler” and noticing the random storyboard scenes/unfinished animation and beautiful score. But, I also remember it being a musical, and Tack’s and the Thief’s voice narration from the “Arabian Knight” version.
my favorite qoute from zigzag is "Im taking my Balls and LEAVING"
Honestly, even though the story isnt the best, the animation MORE than makes up for it. The castle chase scene especially
Imma be honest, Tack was my gay awakening 💀
It would have been hilarious if tack was a Tumblr sexy man
😂😂😂
Thanks for shedding some light on this wonderful film and correcting the story.
Now I have an ice breaker - Calvert and Disney worked with what they had to try and bring a film out to the people.
This was so well done. Thank you. I have heard this movie called so many things I couldn't believe it was all the same movie haha
I remember the fever dream of this Movie and finding it years later and still just *“what?”* after watching it, yet it remains a nostalgic movie for me
I grew up watching the "Thief and the Cobbler" version with the talking thief. Yeah the old version is better but I still LOVE the later version because it was what I saw first
Ok, but the thief was definitely the best part of the Disney version.
I love Vincent Price, I loved him in The Great Mouse Detective and I'm so happy he was in this movie before he died