Disney's Best Anti Villain - Appreciating The Fox And The Hound
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2022
- This video took far too long to make, but it was a worthy learning experience. Did I make any good points, or am I full of it? Let me know in the comments.
If this should take off in any way, I'll probably make more videos like it.
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I also love that Amos was always a decent dog owner. He took care of cheif after injured, he's just a hunter.
Right, you never see him mistreat his dogs, even when Copper does something wrong. He just gets the equivalent of being grounded. When Chief gets hurt and Amos yells at him it's because he's walking around on his injured leg and will just hurt himself even more.
"You lay back down Chief or I'll bust your other leg"
@@buttpiratesbuttpirate5913 I don't think he would have actually done it. He was just being hard on Chief. Especially since he caught on that Chief was just whimpering for petty attention.
@@kingbash6466 oh yeah I know that; it's just that's totally something your dad would say when he's taking care of you but fed up with yout shit lmao
@@buttpiratesbuttpirate5913 As someone who has a dad who operates on that logic, I understand that all too well.
I like the fact the vilain isn't the real bad guy, he is just a hunter doing his job in a time it was normal to kill foxes
There's definitely a lot to talk about with nuanced characters like these. Hence the video.
And I decided to just keep away from the ethical debates involving hunting, which is probably for the best since it wasn't really important anyway.
Poachers are evil
@@PikminandOatchi It depends of the time and context
@@PikminandOatchi no but poachers are
@@PikminandOatchi poachers are evil, this man hunts for food and fur (most likely selling his catches).
I love when copper says “if it’s the last thing I do…” then hesitate because he realizes he doesn’t want to kill copper and then finished it with “-I’ll get you for this”. It’s a really human delivery that makes these characters all the more real
And then he sees Todd risk his life, not just to save him but his beloved owner as well.
It's when it hits him that Todd didn't want Chief dead either and what happened on the tracks wasn't Todd's intension and not purely his fault. Todd never had been good reasons to like Chief or Amos, especially since it's Amos' fault Todd is no longer with his beloved mother figure, but he never hated them because Copper loved them.
There's a lot of people that we don't like, but we don't necessarily hate them.
I honestly thought it was cut audio of him saying preparing to say something like "Todd! If it's the last thing I'll kill you (or ya)!" Prior to the idea of saving Chief later in production, just theorizing, but I found the ending of the finished line a little cut off to me. Who knows? xD
You mean Todd?
its in a coon dogs nature to pin a coon, not to kill it.
that personification of a coon hound is perfectly used in my experience of coon hunting for many years. they would find them and ball them up for me but causing harm in an animal just wasn't in their nature. I have never not one time at least in my time seen a hound kill a coon during a hunt.
@@SomeHarbourBastard isn’t Todd the fox
“Good-bye may seem forever. Farewell is like the end. But in my hearts a memory, that’s where you’ll always be.”
The most DEVASTATING line I ever heard as a child 😭😭
☹️☹️ that hits really deep man..
Gave me chills reading that
Probably one of the saddest scenes ever too. Good grief, it breaks me every time!
I remember I started crying during that scene once and I was all like “wtf I shouldn’t be crying at this scene”
The realization that not all endings are happy, sometimes things are not meant to be, and in those times maybe "glad It didnt came to worse, and were all living our lifes now" in the best you can get, if you Let go when you need to.
Chief kind of reminds of that uncle who acts like he cant stand you but does everything he can to keep you cared for
the uncle who doesn't like that you're doing it wrong, so he held your hand until you did it right
@@wilsonweiseng6485 😂
You’re right that Chief was supposed to die.
In fact, the behind the scenes drama of the executives trying to sanitize the film while the artists fought for the integrity of the story led to several animators quitting. They went on to create their own studio, and that’s the reason we have Don Bluth movies.
Yeah...
The movie feels... off without Chief actually dying. "Tod, you got chased by Chief, who was clearly the aggressor, and he got hit by the train in the process? And he broke his leg? YOU MUST DIE! I WILL CHASE YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH!!!"
I could buy the owner being pissed at Tod. But Copper? Over a BROKEN LEG? Nu-uh. That's too harsh. The only way for Copper's actions to be internally justifiable and believable is for Chief to actually die.
It's funny how many great movies we got thanks to people quitting Disney. :P
Don Bluth with Secret of Nimh, Land Before Time & American Tail.
Katzenberg with the Dreamworks catalogue.
Heck, even Tim Burton was a Disney animator during his pre-directing days.
Don Bluth is such an important part of my childhood memories. Thanks for telling us.
They should have kept that part. They could have done it without making it too graphic for kids and it would have explained the rest of the story, but as it is Amos comes off looking completely unreasonable.
lol, I'm a hound owner, if somebody caused the death of my dog I'd be seeing red too. "Don't mess with a person's Good Boys" oughta be codified into the Constitution, I'm just sayin'.
I DIDNT KNWO THIS o-o
Thanks for telling me this
Not challenging your statement here, but I'm very interested in reading more about this. Do you have an article or some citation you can send my way?
I understand that it might be more believable and dramatic if Chief had died, but I think the fact that he was only injured makes it easier to justify Amos sparing Todd.
I can imagine most people wanting to kill a wild animal if it had caused the death of our beloved dog. The fact that they can go home to a still-living Chief makes it easier for Amos (and Copper, for that matter) to let go of their anger.
I was thinking the same thing
Correct.
Now for the book, *SPOILERS*
Chief does die. However, if memory serves me right, everybody dies from the bear encounter at the end.
Chief dying works with that ending, but with this one, it makes more sense if he lives.
And it kind of works with Cheif's arc of feeling left out and alone. Amose takes care of him, letting him sleep inside on a nice bed, casting his leg. It shows that desipite what he was feeling, Amose still loves him.
@@JordanDCGehl Nah. The bear encounter wasn't the big finale fight in the book. It was part of the story, but shows how book!Coper is past his prime. Book!Chief saved The Master (Amos' counterpart) from the bear. Thus why I'm grateful Chief wasn't involved in the finale fight.
How they actually die is:
Todd dies from exhaustion due to Copper literally running him to death, and Copper is euthanized by the Master (keep in mind there was no way to do this humanly during the time this book takes place) with a shot to the head. The Master then goes into a retirement home to live out the last of his days, which is why he had to do what he had to do to Copper.
But that doesn't mean the Master is a villain for doing that. He had let Copper live in pain and exhaustion due to his obsession with Todd, and now that the deed is done, he finds he's not any better. He put Copper though unnecessary pain due to his selfishness. He took responsibility for his dog and Copper shows he has no ill will for him by giving him one last lick before the Master covers his eyes.
So even though the movie changed things, and no one dies, they still kept the main message of the book.
@@girl1213I have to kms
I think the main theme of the movie boils down to one word: Change. Big Mama says it herself at one point, "time has a way of changing things." Friendships change, and they're not all meant to last forever. New friendships form. Even tensions between what one may call enemies can soften. Favor with the one you respect can shift to another. Hell, near the end you see that caterpillar become a butterfly, to really nail the idea home. Things change.
And about the issue with Copper leapfrogging Chief, from what I've read elsewhere, Chief's breed of hound isn't quite as suited to hunting and tracking as Copper's, hence why Amos was so happy to find him. Basically, the day Copper arrived, Chief never had a chance.
Give Chief and Amos a bit more credit.
Despite Chief's breed not being the best, Amos still used and trained him and Chief obviously did a good job. But Chief's old now and deserves a retirement. Chief likely doesn't feel ready to retire, but his human knows his health and wants Chief to live his last years comfortable. As the bear scene shows, Chief wouldn't survive out there in the wild for much longer if even a young healthy dog like Copper can't take down a bear.
Chief's having a difficult time accepting he's not as young as he used to be: that too is change. He fears Amos won't love him anymore, but it's clear that Amos *still* loves him as he takes care of him with his broken leg.
Instead of a scenthound, like the bloodhound Copper, Chief is an Irish Wolfhound, a sighthound. They dont really excell at tracking by smell, but once they catch sight, they're off. And, as the name suggests, wolfhounds were bred to hunt wolves, partially because they're also used as livestock guardian dogs.
@@thecatladytm7172 All the more reason I'm glad he wasn't there for that bear scene
Although I agreed Chief should have died to heighten the stakes, I also find it really admirable that Slade continues to take care of him and try and make him comfortable when he’s injured.
Slade is a hunter, it’s his livelihood, and so realistically a hunting dog with a broken leg is of no use to him. He would be entirely justified in putting Chief down, and yet he takes the effort to care for him anyway. He genuinely cares for his dogs outside of their immediate utility and that’s sweet
That's actually a great point, that I never thought of. It allowed us to see another side to Amos.
I grew up in a rural area and one day I was with my dad driving to the store and a hunting dog ran out across the road. He ended up getting hit by the rear wheel. My dad stopped and got out. He and the hunter talked for awhile and then I just heard a “boom” it was a mercy killing. I was probably ten at the time and I’m thirty six now. I still remember how upset my dad was getting back in the car.
That's a good point. It shows that Amos is more than just a ruthless hunter who wants to kill animals for the sake of it, but that he actually cares about his dog Chief, despite him being now useless to him, since he's injured. Usually you expect Amos to abondon Chief entirely or straight end it for him, since he can't serve his purpose as hunting dog.
@@anni1348 Different time period and different circumstances. When you have an abundance of resources, you can take care of more casualties, but when the resources diminish, so to does the amount of care given. It isn't about loving the animal or trying the heal the animal at that point. It becomes the one last sacrifice by the animal so that the family can continue on. Now-a-days that is treated like a great sin, instead of what it was. A desperate act in a terrible situations.
Everyone here should do themselves a favor, and read the novel...
Amos is an anti-villain because he's operating within a different moral framework than the main characters of the story. For Amos, his actions are easier to justify to himself than they are to us who are personifying a Fox and a Hound. He wouldn't fit if he had to contend with Tod's personhood and his friendship to Copper, morally. The fact that those aspects of this story is utterly lost to him is why he can slip into the anti-villain camp.
I was honestly a kid the last time I watched it, but even when Todd was still a kit and he got into the chicken pen, in real life would say that Amos would have been justified in doing something to him. I live rurally and on a farm, and although I personally wouldn't be the one to do anything to just a baby fox, I can't say that my family and friends woul be different.
He was not really sane though, he had anger issues and did illegal stuff, going in a non hunting area to kill wild animals. Having a beef with a wild animal just because they don't accept getting killed. If he told other hunters what happened I do not think most would agree with him. Hunters must protect nature so next generations can take what they need in the future.
That’s true, and most antiheroes suffer from character flaws, but not poor character outright. His flaws are his quick temper and his portrayed bloodlust (as a hunter/trapper) aligned against the presented protagonists who are mostly animals. But his character is evident in his loving relationship with his dogs
Did they name him Amos after Amos Moses the gator hunter in the Jery Reed song?
@@RAAM855 Amos Moses was a Cajun!
I know a lot of people don't even like to acknowledge it, but there's also a touching scene in the direct-to-video sequel. Both Widow Tweed and Slade are worried after Tod and Copper go missing, and the pair share a brief moment where they promise to notify one another if they see each other's missing pets. It's what you'd expect of someone as kind as Widow Tweed, but it shows that Slade is a genuinely good person deep down as well; he's willing to temporarily abandon his entire way of life if it means sparing someone the same pain he feels following Copper's disappearance.
The idea that the widow kept Todd inside for his entire childhood is really funny when you find out that foxes apparently pee on EVERYTHING! Even inside their own water bowl.
Remember the part where Tod and Vixy leap directly through the fire planted in front of their den by Amos Slade in order to escape? Amos is flabbergasted, as you can imagine, since an animal's instinct would likely be to avoid the burning heat of the flames, and the suffocating smoke, even if it would mean having to take their chances with the snarling dog at the other end. But as an animal raised in domestication (Widow Tweed is almost confirmed to have a fireplace as indicated by her house's chimney, and she is shown on screen to have a potbelly stove), Tod likely would have been much more comfortable around fire and smoke than Vixy, a wild fox. Perhaps Tod understood through experience that allowing fire to linger resulted in burning and pain, but surmised that quickly dashing through the flames without allowing them to set would be enough to keep them unharmed. Just a neat detail and evidence of the creators really thinking things through.
Hey, have you thought about making videos? ;)
That is beautiful
@@keythelich i myself have thought about it, i think i could make a good channel about screenwiting and movie ideas, but i just don't have the self confidence to put myself out there and to share my ideas.
@@kronoslastnamenotimportant492 just use a robot voice like text to speech, and hide your face
If people can watch an hour of text to speech reddit videos I think they can handle text to speech movie reviews
@@No.1RatedSalesman i don't know how to do that... but I'll try.
One thing about this movie is it kinda teaches the audience that friendships sometimes drift apart, people change, and how some friendships don't last or can last forever. As someone who has had a lot of friends over the years only small number of them are still intact. A lot of us, have either gotten married, moved, or got involved in things that don't add up to our own individual beliefs. I have lost friends and gain friends, but actual friends I hang out with, and not chat up on social media is very small now. But this movie basically says that that's okay as long as you drift apart in good terms, and with respect that's all that matters
I respect that.
Being a child, I definitely loved the movie, it's quite real within the realm of talking personified animals. And the Bear scene is the best animation of animals fighting in animation history.
It also teaches what happens when you hold a grudge or when anger evolves into hate. This is one of my favorite movies from childhood and I am revisiting it as I'm going through a divorce. My soon to be ex is angry and hateful, and I can see it is destroying her. I on the other hand, though I'm heartbroken, still refuse to hate her (it just isn't working out, neither of us cheated or anything, we are just incompatible and our communication doesn't work anymore). I'm losing my best friend and partner and it is brutal, but I refuse to go down that path. Seeing Amos and Copper's journey again through adult eyes just reassures me that I am making the right decision. I really wish Disney started making films like this again rather than treating kids like they are morons and nearly always playing it safe (there are exceptions, but this era of films and the 80s-90s just had something special that is missing from this era).
I wonder if I'm the only one who noticed this, but Disney tried to reuse the "friendship drift" theme or "friends got separated following their own paths" with Ralph and vanellope, Woody and Buzz, Elsa and Anna. But they felt very forced and poorly executed, unlike in this movie.
it also hints that their friendship didn’t actually die, it’s still there even if they are no longer able to be together and now live different lives
this is exemplified by at the end, how Tod and Vixie are watching over Copper, tweed and amos, chief, and the farm from the top of the hill,
showing that while they may not be together they still are connected and do care for the other.
Fox and the Hound is a lot like the Black Cauldron for me. Highly underrated, somewhat dark for children, but true masterpieces that deserve recognition.
My dad showed me both when I was a kid, and I could never forget it.
I truly love them both
yesss i love it
That small nitpick you had was right. He did preload his gun. The animators even drew a shell coming out. And it looked like it was unspent. So they knew what they were doing. They had him do it specifically for dramatic effect. He also wasted a shell because he probably didn't pick it up either.
i kinda like the idea that he just...did it to double check. a totally human impulse, to make sure you did something.
@@CarmenFiala yeah maybe. But as someone who both deer hunts and trap shoots, I don't think I've ever double checked if a round was in the chamber. Just because I know when the action is closed it's because I already chambered a round. I have however tried to fire with the safety on but that just feels different
Not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but regarding the scene where Todd bites Coppers neck: I've got a hound dog of my own. They're obviously very droopy with lots of skin. This was a trait bred into mostly scent hounds (bloodhounds, coonhounds, basset hounds, the wrinkly boiz etc). It allows them to corner prey, like in this situation, and receive a sharp bite to areas like their neck. Todd would've basically gotten a mouthful of skin, the let-go could have been because of that. They obviously did their research on scent hounds for this movie too, their abilities are incredible.
True! That attension to animal detail is greatly appreciated. Knowing if Todd wanted to hurt him, he would definitely need to try especially hard since Copper was basically made for this (as in his skin made for taking bites from cornered, hunted animals). It could mean either with the consistently saggy animated dog. It works on so many levels.
I'm so happy someone pointed this out, so I didn't have to!
Same idea with pitbulls and thick heads and necks
Fun fact: foxes have sent glands (similar to skunks), which they use to mark their territory with their urine. Those urine markings will also stick to hair, skin, and clothes and the smell can last for weeks. So if someone is taking care of a fox, you’ll probably be able to smell it on them. (Honestly, I’m kind of surprised that Amos didn’t mention this in the movie, although, I suppose it might not have been appropriate for a kids movie to imply that someone is covered in fox pee)
Yup, a shit ton of stuff in that breed was specially bred for dog fighting, their jaws don't lock but they do latch on and hold, little fur so they can't get grabbed that way, their prey drive is unreal. Ridiculous they're accepted as a pet by some folk.@@Texasmule
I find it interesting how even as a kid watching this movie, I never perceived Amos as the villain, I didn't even hate him when watching the movie.
I was even worried for him when the bear appeared.
He is kind of a likaleble character. What makes it so hard to watch, when Tod and he become enemys.
Same, I didn't put two and two together that Foxes usually steal chickens and thought he was angry because of the mess that was happening in his yard. I could also understand why he was upset over someone hurting his dog, even if unintentionally (Tod was still my fav though) I think that goes to tell that children can understand everything, even if a bit different.
19:40 from what I understand, this scene is what led to Don Bluth leaving Disney to create his own animation studio. Don wanted to have Chief die in this scene, but the execs refused due to it not being "child friendly". Disney had also refused to allow him to create The Secret of Nihm, so he went off and made it under his own company.
Its not even close to that simple, that is just one of many departures from the story of the novel. If the novel is not kid friendly perhaps its not the right novel to use for a childrens cartoon, yes?
Please, read the book, then you will understand.
The main targeted audience is children after all.
@@PerfectAzrael I remember a lion falling then being trampled by a stampede and another lion being eaten by hyenas, 2 dogs getting electrocuted on train tracks and a squid woman being impaled by a ship.
All of them made by disney.
@@monkeybaron6412and a man in his Lincoln Continental doing everything possible to run over a homeless their and his gang of dogs all for a cat
@@monkeybaron6412 It’s not as graphic as you remember.
If the chief dies, it might’ve been too much as in being too graphic since we don’t know what they were planning and how it even looked.
This entire movie is a work of art. The scenes are beautifully painted and the music adds so much feelings
I like Amos because he's not a bad person- he's a hunter who happens to be angry and rude. He's like 80 percent of my hometown. His flaw is when he got too caught up in it and couldn't let it go. Very cool.
I mean, his recklessness when he shot at the widow's car that she was driving is sort of beyond the bounds of acceptable. I didn't really hate him as much as thought he really really should stop being so... well my childhood thoughts were 'mean,' but I'll update it to reckless aggressive.
@@SallinKari my brother and I celebrated his injury when were kids
@@SallinKari Shit is, that is not outlandish for someone with a personality like Amo's, shooting at someone's car out of anger is nothing to someone that is willing to break the law and hunt in a reserve just to get revenge on a fox he thought was hunting his chickens, and the movie sugests Todd only did that mistake once.
That Amos is the type of guy that even after months of Todd being out and not having any incident with his chickens still hunt Todd based on that time even though after so long most people would asuse Todd learned his lesson or the widow even taught him not to?
Totally reasonable (for his personality) to in a fit of rage shoot a someone's car).
@@SallinKari I liked that scene because the widow showed him that she can be just as batshit insane as he is when angered.
@@poorsvids4738 Same
Thanks for pointing out the fact that Copper smiling at the end indicates that he realizes Todd is nearby. That just makes the ending so much better. Thank you for reigniting my love for this film, I grew up watching it and honestly forgot about it until this video
I always thought that Copper was smiling because of memories he had with Tod, because we hear "We'll always be friends forever." And I always thought, as a kid, that they did remain friends.
It also could be he was just thinking of Tod and having flashbacks in his head of all the good times they spent together as kids. Or maybe both, who knows. But he certainly thought of him in that moment either way and that's the beauty behind that tiny smirk.
Chief being replaced by Copper isn't out of malice or spite. As dogs get older, they also experience arthritis, loss of scent, and vision problems just like humans. Those traits make it almost impossible to continue their duties as "hunter hounds", and some hunters would unfortunately even kill the hounds as they could no longer support them. A mercy killing in most cases. It's never easy.
But some older dogs would be given a place in the household as guards for young children or their first pet, which was normally how the child would unfortunately learn about the passing of an animal as well. There is a reason we've domesticated dogs for centuries.
These good puppers have their duties in many households and organizations and it's always good to see them able to serve their purposes proudly as hunters and trackers.
The Fox and the Hound is so underrated. It really does deserve more praise than it gets.
The original novel was based on the theme of destructive civilization. Copper was actually a grown dog and the Alpha of a hunting pack and Chief was the pup. The bear encounter takes place near the start of the story and Chief saved the hunter when Copper was afraid to face it, causing the tension of a new Alpha rising. Tod was raised by another hunter after he killed his family but left on his own and enjoyed teasing Copper's pack until the less-experienced Chief breaks his leash and chases him with lethal disastrous results, causing Copper's hatred of Tod. The huge antagonist of the story for hunter, fox and hound, though, is encroaching development with farms and woods being pushed out by urban sprawl and plans to flood Tod's valley for a water reservoir. A rabies outbreak causes the terrified suburbanites to call on the aging hunter to use his skills to eradicate all the foxes, and in the end, after years of vendetta where the hunter killed Tod's mates and his kits, Copper finally runs Tod to death by exhaustion. Briefly Copper and the Hunter are local heroes, but are soon forgotten and forcibly evicted. Persuaded to go into a retirement facility, the now alcoholic hunter has to shoot Copper as he is not allowed to take him into the home and the whole world all three shared gets buried underwater.
While a very dark story, the author, Daniel Mannix, was both knowledgeable and sympathetic to the characters and had spent a long time learning about fox behavior as well as the skills of hound keepers and predator hunters. While the immediate drama of "Man vs Wild" was between the fox and the hound, the "wild" hunter and the woods they all inhabit are the final victims.
As would be expected, Disney altered the basic plot, just as they did with Bambi, The Little Mermaid and a number of other stories, but that basic tension of the world of Man and the Wilds does play an important part of this animated version.
Hardest part is at the end when the hunter is covering Copper's eyes when he's about to pull the trigger & all Copper does is nuzzle the hand while licking it lovingly followed by...nothing that's how the story ends
Technically Copper is the older dog in the book and Chief is the younger one. Also Tod is way more of the classic clever wily nasty fox. He deliberately leads Chief technically Copper onto the tracks. Copper dies from the train which originally did happen in the film to Chief and Amos in the book called the Master murders Vixey and the fox kits. He and Chief go crazy and hunt Tod for years till they all age and Tod dies from exhaustion. Then Amos shoots Chief.
Dear god...
I read that book several times (love it, bought it, kept it) but i completely missed the part about flooding the valley. Probably because there is no real dialog as its from the alternatjng perspectives of Todd and Copper.
What i do know, however, is that the movie is less a telling of Mannix's story, and more a retelling of the Ballad of the Belstone Fox, which Disney lost out on the rights to.
I have a theory that Disney intentionally alters the plot so that they can maintain intellectual property rights. Remember it's not the original Bambi or Little Mermaid kids love it's "Disney's" Bambi or Little Mermaid.
I think it's interesting to note that right after Chief's accident, as Copper looks up at Todd and says he'll "get him" you can hear him hesitate at first. It seems to me like what he really wanted to say was "I'll kill you" but, even in his rage and anger can't bring himself to actually say it. He definitely does want to and definitely does try to later, but he hasn't fully accepted that he wants to kill his best friend.
Dang, up until you mentioned it, I never realised this was such a big emotional moment that was lost in translation, since at least in Spanish, Copper just outright says "I will kill you".
@@batmank234 It probably has more to do with "kid's shows" in North America having this strong aversion to the word "kill". This kind of thing is very common in American animation. I guess the ratings boards just consider it a no-no-word when it comes to children's entertainment.
I'm pretty sure it was just North American sensibilities considering "kill" to be off-limits for children's entertainment. It's still like this for a lot of shows today.
@@Wraithguard92 Fair, but I personally agree that the line fits the character better as is. Plus, doesn't Amos later say that Tod near killed Chief?
@@Wraithguard92 I would agree with you, if not for the fact that this movie was made a while ago and they use the word "kill" numerous times in the movie. For example, when copper catches Todd in the second chase scene, he says "Todd, I don't want to see you get killed." so I think it was a more conscious decision than just; kill = not kid-friendly.
He is most definitely not the only anti villain. Think of how King Tritan was portrayed in The Little Mermaid. Abusive, controlling, cruel, destructive, and why? Because he was terrified of losing his daughter and ultimately was the force that pushed her away. Only by letting her go did he gain her love the strongest. Sure, Ursula was a villain. But Tritan was an unprepared man who evolved into a proper father.
The prologue movie really helps us understand King Triton. His wife's death was brutal, being crushed to death like she was. And all because she wanted to save the gift he gave her as a symbol of their love. And the fact that it was humans didn't help, but like with Todd, the humans weren't looking to harm her. They didn't even know she was there: it was a complete accident on their part.
But Triton can't accept that because it makes his pain "invalid" in his mind if there wasn't a malicious force at work. Just like Amos, who *needs* to believe Todd deserves to die for causing harm to Chief, Triton needs to believe humans are evil to justify why Ariel shouldn't be interested in them. It's only when a human risks it all to save her that he finally realizes he was unfair to judge them like that. Eric loves Ariel as much as he loved Athena, doing what he himself would have done if he had been able to.
Harsh as it is, the truth is Athena put herself in that situation: a music box wasn't worth her life, even one as precious as that one because it can be replaced: she couldn't. And she accidentally caused much pain for her daughters, especially Ariel who would have the hardest time with Triton, who let grief consume him. It was sadly all her fault.
Just like what happened to Chief was in actuality Amos' fault: it's his responsibility as an owner to keep the dogs under control because as intelligent as dogs are, they get themselves into trouble because they don't have the same awareness like humans do. Chief didn't have the same object permeance awareness to understand train-tracks mean trains, which means danger and to keep away from them even if you can't see the train.
But it's human to want to blame other things and other people rather than oneself or even someone you love very much when bad things happen. Forgiveness is ultimately what saves characters like King Triton and Amos and redeems them.
I grew up watching this and hating Amos. His attitude and hatred towards Tod always put me off. But as I'm an adult now, I realize he's saving his chickens and thinks the widow is raising a varmint so close to his livelihood and he took action to peotect his property. The Widow dropping Tod off in the woods and leaving him still makes me cry as a grown ass man. This movie is a masterpiece. Great video!
You might be right about Amos being the only anti-villan in all of Disney. He kind and loving to his dogs and cares about what happens to the rest of his animals. He believes that he's doing a necessary action against Todd and backs down when he's told otherwise.
Isn't Alma an anti-villain?
@@carterfinley1893 I'm blanking what movie is Alma from?
I think Ganto from Lilo and Stitch would also be considered an anti-villain (at least in the original movie), he was after stitch because stitch was a threat to everyone. He was willing to kidnap Lilo too if it meant capturing Stitch.
@@stephwong6422 Encanto. She just wanted her family to be happy and perfect but didn't realize she was emotionally abusing everyone.
Don't forget John Silver from Treasure Planet. The climactic change of heart and sacrifice for Jim.
As a kid I was hyper empathic, I would cry or start laughing just by seeing someone happy or sad. The expression of the widow when taking away the fox made me cry instantly. The animators are really amazing in this cartoon, they are leagues above many other classics.
"goodbye may seem forever...farewell...is like the end"
yeah... I'm not crying... nope...
I suck at lying...
Honestly, now that I have kids, almost every Disney movie makes me cry.
@@abigails4088 I've managed to sit through Dumbo and Bambi without crying. I have yet to do the same for The Fox and the Hound.
@@dannypalin9583 I'm a sappy bitch... ever seen Big Lebowski? Donny, man... I cry at the drop of a hat in movies/books/etc
but my big three from my childhood... the goodbye song I quoted from TFatH... the ending of The Last Unicorn... and the ending credits of Balto (yeah, corny kids movie but I always loved it... and James Horner is an AMAZING composer who has a surprisingly "famous" catalog)
I also had hyper empathy as a kid. It was rough
The main selling point for me on this movie was what you said for just about most of the hard hitting scenes. *The facial expressions.*
Of course you’ll NEVER get these scenes if you “live action” these two animals. There’s only so much you can do with a realistic fox and dog face. HOWEVER, the emotions on these characters (including the humans) are as easy to read like a book.
As a kid, this made the movie all the more like-able and really helped me appreciate the animation for this movie. And the voice actors do this movie justice. One of the reasons this movie is my top for old Disney movies.
The Disney "dark age" films are pretty good.
They're actually some of my favorite Disney films:
- The Fox and the Hound
- Robin Hood
- The Black Cauldron
- Bedknobs and Broomsticks
- Who Framed Roger Rabbit (released under buena vista which is a disney company)
Don't forget about watership down and Where the Red Fern Grows
The Great Mouse Detective was my favorite as a kid.
@@davidprepperwolf7588neither of those were Disney though
I also love the look on Copper's face as Amos let's go of his anger for Todd, it's a mixture of relief and even a bit of guilt, almost as if he's aware of some lingering disappointment Amos has toward him for stopping him from killing Todd, only for Amos to pat Copper, assuring Copper that he did the right thing and that Amos still loves his pup.
And realizing killing Todd won't solve anything, and his obsession with revenge almost got them both killed. Amos had alot to unpack, and accept. In the end, the love for his dogs outweighed his hatred for Todd, and desire for revenge.
I don't remember a whole lot about Fox and the Hound, it's been more than 15 years since I last watched the film. But I'm glad to be able to think of this film as a "Reverse Moby Dick"
I will riot if they ever make a live action remake of this…
In my opinion if they do I dont want alot of the script is changed and actually accurate to what they actually used in the animated og
@@jeremiahingram5767a PG-13 version would probably spark my interest given it's not based off the original movie.
I think a live-action (or CGI) version would be interesting.
"Put a chick on it and make her lame and gay!"
😂 southpark man. Literally did this joke but with Bambi.
I will personally gouge my own eyes out if they do that as I know that they will totally screw it up.
Amos is such a good character. A gruff old hunter who reminds me so much of my grandfathers in rural Iowa. He decided to spare Todd even if it hurt his pride, because he knew that the fight wasn’t fair.
I think Chief not dying was the harder choice. It shows there is consequence - it shows loose ends aren't so neatly snipped. Sometimes people live on for a very long time with pain and suffering. Sometimes they experience horrific things - and like Chief, recover.
I’ve lost track of how many times this movie brought me to tears. The absolute worse heart-wrenching scene is when the widow had no choice but to take Tod back to the forest. The drive while she was lost in thoughts and the song that followed as she had to leave Tod always made me cry, no matter how many times I watched the movie.
I agree, it was terribly sad, but not the saddest, the saddest is when chief gets hit by a train and you know that he doesn't deserve to die, but You also can't blame Tod as he was just running for his life, Then immediately after copper blames Todd, which he shouldn't, but at the same time the audience can't blame copper for blaming Todd, cause the only other alternative is to blame himself for letting Todd get away, which he can't do because he knows letting his friend live was the right choice. If anything one might consider trying to lay the blame on chief, as he was the foolhardy 1 running after Todd recklessly, but you can't even blame him for that, as he is an old dog just looking to prove himself 1 last time before forced retirement. This movie is the piece of media that truly taught me what "catch-22" or "damned if you do, damned if you don't" means. Fox in the hound is the best movie if you're trying to teach your child that sometimes in life there is not a correct answer and no matter what you do something horrible will happen to you or people you care about and that's just life, Sometimes it's unfair and it's brutal and there's nothing anyone can do to change it.
Still though, when she has to go drive Todd into the forest to drop him off that's a real tear jerker as well
I really love the movie but this is the scene that prefents me from watching it again and again. It's so sad and heart wrenching :(
I haven't seen this movie in well over a decade now, but I do recall having watched it many times when I was little. Just watching this brought so many strong waves of emotion back from all that.
I’m a 37 year old man. I’ve never been moved to tears by a movie. And I think it’s silly for anyone to allow fictional stories to tug at their heartstrings enough to cry over them…. Especially, men.
That being said, that one scene where she drops him off in the forest, I had to turn it off. I remember looking at my brother and saying “this is a stupid movie”. I swore I’d never watch the rest. Now I have 3 daughters and I have Disney+. They wanted to watch it and they like watching Disney movies as a family. So I couldn’t say no. Then that particular scene came on and I was barely holding it together. Then the 3 of them all started bawling. That put me over the edge and my eyes started streaming as I consoled them.
It was a strange feeling of happiness and sadness. Sadness because of the movie and knowing it made my kids cry, and happiness that I was able to share a moment with them and confirming that they’re not sociopaths like their father. 🫠
I actually always liked Amos, even as a kid. He's just a grumpy old loner. And the type of hunter that actually uses everything he hunts. The whole cast is so likable, really.
My dad reminded me of Amos.
The Jeans. The boots. The Mustache. The temper.
Lol.
I loved watching this movie as a kid.
As an adult, it hurts and gives me tears. But damn, do I love it more.
@@Dagrizzb - My dad, too 😁
Amos is an asshole who didn't mind his own business.
@@McFaddenWasRight - You didn't actually watch the movie, huh?
Todd shouldn't have been on a property where there are chickens. That's a big no no from any hunters pov. But of course, he was just wanting to see Copper.
Chief alerts of Todds presence.
So drama ensued.
Second, Todd continued going back to Amos' home(to see Copper).
Chief did what a dog should do, alert their master of intruders.
Drama ensues, and Chief nearly dies.
Big strike 2.
Amos wants to avenge his dog, which, any dog owner can empathize.
After the bear attack during the hunt for Todd, Amos realizes through Copper that his desire for revenge nearly killed both Copper and him.
He learns to let go of his grievance.
Forgive Todd, and the Widow to an extent.
Pretty good character development for a kids film.
The Widow also develops some. She gets Todd, gives all her love and attention to a psuedo child/husband/family she doesn't have. She painfully learns to let go.
And is happier in the end for it.
Copper loses a friend he loved dearly because it brings peace.
Amos, the Widow, and Copper all have to let go of something.
Bittersweet ending.
Very important for growing children to understand lessons like this.
In another universe, Todd and Vixen were a Highwayman and a Princess.
While I agree that having chief die at that point wouldve made the darker themes more apparent, not having him die would have made the ending a lot more dissonant. I don't see a character known for being bitter and a hot head letting go if his dog died chasing a fox, rather than having it wounded. Maybe if he was injured moreso than a broken leg it would have been a great middle ground?
I very much agree, maybe injuries all over but still recoverable.
I agree, I think it would’ve been best if Chief was paralyzed or just so hurt he could never hunt again
You're not wrong about the decision to keep Chief alive; a few sources I've read have more or less confirmed that this particular story beat created a massive divide between many of the animators and higher ups at Disney working on the film. They used the same logic as the decision to keep Trusty alive at the end of Lady and the Tramp; they didn't want another Bambi situation. Two of whom were Don Bluth and Gary Goldman, who were in favour of killing chief off. Before the film was finished, Don and Dary would leave Disney and take about 15 other animators with them to start their own studio. Hell, if you look at all the scenes after the train incident in the film, they feel more like afterthoughs crammed in later, as they could all be effortlessly cut out or altered with zero change as to the final events of the film.
Your first point wouldn't surprise me if it were true.
I'm all for character deaths if it serves a narrative purpose, but it can't be helped sometimes. The Black Cauldron had to cut a lot of scenes because they were deemed too scary for kids, if I remember rightly.
Wow, ok to think that this, probably one of the Top 3 most impactful movies I saw as a child, might have very well been the last thing responsible for pushing Don Bluth out of Disney is fascinating.
@@WC3fanatic997 It's true; The Fox and the Hound was the last Disney animation Don Bluth and Gary Goldman worked on before they left Disney (They were uncredited). They would go on to make The Secret of NIMH only a few years later.
@@keythelich 12-15 minutes of fully animated and scored film was cut by the hands of Katzenberg, most of which isn't hidden thanks to the score. This was his first animated film and he was only got on the project late in development. As a result, he tried to edit it like a live action film. Eisner had to compromise with him or he would have cut much more.
Many scenes of the Cauldron Born were cut, most infamously the scene of the guy melting. Most of what was cut were more incidental costing Fflewddur Flam many lines and a few plot-relevant scenes such as the gang figuring out how to destroy the Cauldron near the end. That scene was still in the picture book novelization. Yesterworld did a great video on the film and its history.
Bambi may have created a situation but it is a solid classic now. It was something you had never seen at the epoch. Bambi's mother death put a lot more weight in the harsh rule of survival.
6:46 I cannot possibly be the only one who is floored by the cuteness of this scene when they're playing hide and seek, and Copper gives that howl. Kid who did the voice acting hit that right on the head. Right in the feels every time
My dog woos like he did
That actor was *the* Corey Feldman who was also in The Goonies and Stand by Me.
@@Locke350 OMG, I didn't know that! Thank you for the info!
When I was 5, I named my dog after Copper, and later, when my cousin got a dog, he named him after Todd.
They were good dogs.
I can't watch this movie often...probably once every 10 years. It's a masterpiece....but, damn, does it tug at the heart strings.
8:30 all these years later, and I’m still dying laughing at Amos getting his radiator shot out and called a trigger-happy lunatic
10:25 as for Chief no longer sitting by his master's side, I would put forward that it may actually be a "reward". I don't recall the dialogue or context, but just looking at the scene, Chief is old. and old dogs often suffer from arthritis. Chief is sitting in the back, on top of the... corpses of Amos' kills. Although that may seem morbid or a punishment, you could also see it as Amos trying to make Chief a bit more comfy, as the seats in those old cars (which had basically no suspension) were not very comfortable, so Chief may have actually been better off in the back. And yet, that also could remind Chief that he's getting old, and he resents that.
This was one of those Disney movies that I watched over and over again when I was a kid. I remember being curled up in a blanket on the couch with my sister watching and rewinding the tape. Good times.
This video made me sob, I put this on to play in the background while I do my homework, wasn't expecting to cry.
To my friend who recommended this, I hate you respectfully.
“Forever is a long time, Todd”
Those words always stay with me.
I've been around dogs my whole life and even been on hunting trips with them. What is happening when Chief loses his place is completely natural. Dogs get older and usually lose their place to a younger dog. This isn't a bad thing though, most of the time their is no aggression between dogs when this happens
Everyone talks about how sad the death of Bambi’s mom is but not the foxes
As a animator, it really warms my heart to see an analysis that goes this deep. I wish everyone had your media literacy and attention to detail ❤️
to me it seems that animated movies are a lot more black & white these days, someone is purely good or evil
*high 5 to my fellow animator* It is definitely nice to see folks discuss animation with such understanding. :)
@@konobuzoggu239
Even that isn’t the problem, they are fucking with archetype so badly that what’s been objectively “good” or “evil” by a thousand years of sane philosophical standards is being deliberately turned on its head in many cases. The radical feminist message in “Malifacent” that a man ‘can’t’ be BOTH strong AND good at the same time, is the most damning example.
“Anti villains” are a sorely underrated and underutilized flavor of antagonist, (or even as a protagonist on occasion) in kid’s shows. Antiheroes are fashionable in several niche stories, mostly young adult or tween, less for littler kids, but anti villains are missing all over.
I have strong amounts of admiration and respect for 2d animation, for it can life to any unlimited content of imagination and visual thoughts to the storytelling and dialogue.
As a grown man I can't watch this movie or even a breakdown of it without tearing up.
Pucci
@@111paolo2 they do say you are what you eat.
@@hvciw5671 bruh the only thing u eating is Mcdonalds dollar menu f outta here
@@hvciw5671 What?! that makes no sense
@@hvciw5671 nice.
I wish you made more videos like these. Your indepth analysis is a great listen and the first few minutes made me go watch this excellent movie and had me come back watch the rest of your video; in the end wanting more of your content.
How the fuck does the scene where she leaves Todd in the forest still make me cry this hard?! It's even abbreviated here, goodamn.
Same here
I always loved how Chief was drawn to resemble Amos facially.
Ya know they say dogs resemble their owners. Attitude and all.
Abuela from Encanto is probably an anti-villian and the perfect example of the phrase "hurt people hurt people".
I think he knew that 2nd hand which is why he included clips from the film he said he hadn't seen.
I wish encanto had better storytelling though :/
Ya she’s not evil or sadistic. She loves her family but hurts them in an attempt to keep her new home safe
@@gilly_axolotl you’re kidding right
@@LuciesCafe nah encanto felt kinda like it lacked nuance, I get where they’re coming from.
I just got done watching your Rescuers video and now I’m watching this one. Please make more content like this! ❤❤❤
This video is definitely a good one. I'm shocked you don't have a higher subscription count cause you earned my one with this excellent character dive and movie retrospective.
I think the moment when Copper is fighting the bear, trying to protect his master and Todd chooses to return goes MUCH DEEPER than Todd merely feeling guilt over what happened to Chief or Todd not wanting Copper to suffer. I think...for BOTH of them (Todd AND Copper) that their choices in this final scene go back to their bond of friendship that they shared as children. We SEE the hesitation on Todd's face when he hears Coppers cry of pain. He KNOWS that he and Vixey are in danger from the hunter and he needs to protect her, but at the same time, despite how differently their paths have diverged since childhood and now they are supposed to be enemies...Copper is still his friend and Todd had to save him. Much like Copper did in the moment when he is hunting Todd and Chief gets hurt....He couldn't bear to watch his friend die. Now, it is Todd's turn to have this moment. He didn't want to see his best friend killed. I believe this friendship is also what compels Copper to stand over Todd and protect him at the very end from the hunter.
Said it better than me.
That's a lot of information. Too bad I don't read books.
@@LunarBiohazardMusic ...how edgy.
@@LunarBiohazardMusic I imagine this is obvious to anyone who spends any amount of time interacting with you.
@@LunarBiohazardMusic your unintelligent comment shows that well enough
I always used to cry over, thinking that chief might’ve died and whenever she abandoned Todd, but the fact that he survived, and that Todd ended up, happy, always made me so happy whenever I was little so I don’t think chief surviving was really a flaw. I think it was a good thing.
It also makes me very upset, but Amos didn’t just put both copper and chief in the front seat because there’s obviously enough room. He didn’t need to put one of them in the back. I just wouldn’t do that with my dogs so that’s probably my bias.
I don't know if "abandoned" is the right word to describe Widow Tweed's actions. It implies negativity, which there was nothing about it. Even Tod understood she didn't want to do this to him. He never questioned why; he knew she wasn't given a choice by Slade. She's his mother after all. He knows his biological mother, the female fox, left him at the fence post to protect him and he knew what happened to her afterward. Tod knows Window Tweed's doing the same thing: all this to protect him from someone who will hurt him.
So it's not so much abandoning him, as much as it is releasing him from her care.
@@girl1213 I never seen it like that that makes it so much more heartfelt. Thanks for bringing that up.
Whilst I am very happy Chief survived. From a narrative perspective it would have not only made sense within the context of the film.
I mean he got hit by a train and literally fell off a cliff. He’s not Krypto the super dog lol
But it would have strengthened the overall message of the film and made the forgiveness Copper expresses for Tod all the sweeter.
But I can also understand Disney saying no to that as well. As dark as this movie is, especially by today’s standards, it’s still a Disney film at the end of the day. And by this time the company had well established itself as an overall family friendly studio. Though I do think they probably should have tweaked it a bit. Like lower the train tracks. Make the survival a little bit more believable. But I suppose talking animals and whatnot. You can get away with that shit I guess lol
Heard it pissed off the animators though lol
Apparently that helped spawn Don Bluth studios. So eh, worked out well overall 🤷♀️
@@someonerandom8552have you not read the book? Not only did he die, tod deliberatly lead chief (who is actually copper in the novel) onto the tracks... disney didnt force a small change, they completely changed the entire story and themes of it, and the novel wasnt just some run of the mill childrens story, it was critically acclaimed, and people thought it was important as a cautionary tale... imagine if disney animated animal farm but removed all the themes of the russian revolution and the dangers of communism/totalitarianism and just making it a happy go lucky story about friendship that barely even hints to the harsh realities of life... if a story is too dark and depraved for children, perhaps it shouldnt be made for children...
Amazing retrospective, this was one of my favorite movies growing up as I watched it on a vcr so many times the rotating rollers wore out and you could only rewind it by hand. In the end this movie still holds some early moral lessons learned as a child and this retrospective showed me things I never noticed, even with all the times I watched. The end where you suggest Copper smiled cause he could smell Todd was top tier. Thank you for the work put into this project!
This was one of my favorite movies as a kid, I'm glad someone else remembers it and how much of a masterpiece it is. Well done sir, an excellent review!
Younger dogs added into the family can become the center of attention more often than the older ones. Especially if they're puppies for obvious reasons (cute, need more care, etc). That's why when I got my pup, I made sure I always set some time aside for my older dog to make sure she knew I wasn't forgetting her. Sometimes I take her on walks where it's just me and her, I give her treats when she behaves around the pup, and I spend time with her on my lap while giving hugs and head pats. Older pets always deserves as much attention as newer ones.
sometimes it's hard to share the time equally though, given you have to train the younger one also
how does joint training sessions work, actually? take the older dog along, who knows the stuff already, would it speed up the training process when the puppy would see what the older dog does and copy? haven't really thought about it, never had to as last time i lived with a dog, i was like 5
This and the hunchback of notre dame are probably the two most thoughtful disney animated films. They discuss concepts and ideas that can make even adult think about which in my opinion is the hallmark of an animated film. To not make something that will drive numbers or sell merchandise but provoke thought in a person of any age.
I wish I could like this comment a hundred times. You GET IT. The whole point of film making is changing from making art that is thought provoking to creating a film that is soulless and only existing to make money for a company. Although that is sad to see in most films, I’m glad we’re still able to watch older films that were simply art that was made to deliver a message to its audience.
This movie was really emotional for me as a kid. Watching this recap really got me again. Subscribed. Thank you!
22:16 It's slowly making a comeback with films like Puss in Boots The Last Wish and Spiderman Into the Spiderverse and Across the Spiderverse. They tackle mature themes and make it easier for kids to understand and they make it appealing at the same time.
I like that Amos, in the end, isn’t a bad guy. Sure he’s a bit rough and has a temper. But he’s not a cruel owner either. It’s clear he’s a loving master, if a bit strict. Both Chief and Copper are well fed, decently cared for and clearly healthy.
It’s just that he’s a hunter. But as a hunter it’s also his job to ensure the safety of his dogs at all times. Since they are acting out of instinct and are at his command. It’s his job to make sure they don’t run blindly into danger and to pull them back if they do stray too far. You could probably argue that his anger at the time blinded him somewhat. Allowing Chief to run into a dangerous situation just to catch the pesky fox.
Which is probably why his vendetta turned very spiteful at the end. He was furious at Tod for injuring Chief, sure. But he was likely just as angry with himself. He knows better than to let his dogs run lose. Given that he’s clearly a responsible owner and a seasoned hunter. So he probably felt a lot of guilt when Chief was injured.
Which probably added to why he accepted Copper protecting Tod in the end. Chief’s injuries wasn’t Tod’s fault. Not really and Amos knows this, deep down.
Letting go of his anger meant forgiving himself as well.
My god. My memory did not do this movie justice. That third act resolution was amazing and didn't feel contrived at all. It was breathtaking and encouraged me to give all these older, underappreciated Disney movies another watch through more mature, understanding eyes. They have so much emotional value and greatness you just don't pick up on as a kid.
Good luck finding much on a rewatch of "The Black Cauldron."
@@E4439Qv5 *MOST of them have emotional value you don't pick up on as a kid.
..Some of them?
I'd.. rather keep with most. It.. makes makes me happier.
@@E4439Qv5 That's a whole other tin of beans though. The amount of cut and unfinished content in that movie is absolutely deplorable.
Felt this way about Lili and Stitch. I know it’s not that old, but holy crap was that emotional. Being Nani’s age and seeing her struggle to raise Lilo on top of moving to Hawaii and seeing how hard it is to live here, it hits different.
@@xaviercopeland2789 and that they used a space ship for the chase scene with gantu through the mountains instead of the originally animated 747 going low through a city, because 9/11 just happened and they, like many other companies, chickened out showing literally any conceivable reference to it.
Your perspective on the ending did make the film seem like much more of a happy ending. But the mixed emotions throughout the movie is what made this film so great. So happy I was a 90’s kid! Appreciate the ride down memory lane
this is such a great video!! never seen anyone talk about this movie and it was one of my childhood favourites. it's so very mature and dark compared to other films i watched around the same time and even back then it gave me such a distinctive sense of nostalgia and melancholy that few movies have ever replicated. in large part thanks to the themes, soundtrack, and art style. i love the fact this came up in my recommended. your analysis of amos and his complexity was fantastic. such a great vid :)
I wonder if I'm the only one who noticed this, but Disney tried to reuse the "friendship drift" theme or "friends got separated following their own paths" with Ralph and vanellope, Woody and Buzz, Elsa and Anna. But in contrary to the fox and the hond movie, they felt very forced and poorly executed.
That's actually quite an apt observation. I think it boils down to the other examples making less sense for their respective characters.
It seems a bit obvious, but having the drama make sense is pretty much the starting point, then you can take it from there. I might make a small bonus video one day about this topic, because now you've got me thinking.
I do thank you for the "It would get to me if I didn't have feelings" bit. The scene from the movie always gets me so the joke lightened the mood.
I cried. I couldn't help it. As a kid, I never understood why The Widow cried. I hadn't experienced loss. (Now, I'm gonna cry again.)
A really well-made, enjoyable to watch video essay. Thank you for making this
Subscribing- your description of animation is genuinely gorgeous. It’s soothing, how you talk and narrate. I enjoy it, thank you for what you do. :>
This movie had really adult themes regarding friendships and the complications that can come between them. As a kid, I just didn't understand the ending - couldn't accept that it wasn't exactly tied up in a bow and didn't understand that Copper had a real responsibility that meant he had to take a separate path from Todd. I'm kind of tearing up thinking about it actually.
This movie was one of the first that made me cry. I found it legitimately relatable when I was a kid, and it means a lot to me. I still get weepy thinking about the story.
They just don't make movies like this anymore
Forget weepy; I burst into full on tears every single time I even think about this movie. Including right now.
It's my bf favorite, I am so lucky.
The sheer powerlessness of these characters as they become victims of fate and circumstances are what jerks me the most. You can almost see where each fork in the road lead to a different outcome, but that's not how the story goes
@@kosmicfool ayayay
Definitely one of my favorite Disney movies. So many emotions in this film. Such a classic. Great explanations in this video!!
You'll never get this level of high quailty Disney hand drawn animation.
I hated Amos as a kid and as an adult I don’t see some of his tactics as ethical but he wasn’t a VILLAN. He was a dude. That’s it. He was a guy doing what he knew how to do and honestly I bawl like a baby when Todd is left behind in the woods.
Edit: Wow I didn’t realize you were such a small creator. More content like this you are DESTINED for greatness on this platform. Definitely subbed to see more.
And he did break the law by going into the game preserve. He wasn't nice, but not evil. The movie kinda shows the folly of revenge, and how it doesn't solve anything. I think Amos realized that in the end and had to put aside his pride.
I agree, Amos’s ethics weren’t the best whatsoever (especially trespassing) and gave good hunters a bad name. Caring for his dogs is one of his good qualities though.
Did you forget the guy was poaching? He cut the barbed wire that said “no hunting” when he was obsessed with killing Todd. He took it too far
@@adamlambboy8332 Yes, he was poaching. Once he trespassed on the game reserve and the sign said “no hunting” and wanted to kill Tod despite it being illegal on that property. Like Shaw from Open Season, they both become poachers when they are after animals illegally.
@@adamlambboy8332 He’s human and entitled to mistakes. In the end he didn’t pull the trigger and left Todd.
I think this story really taught a valuable and important lesson, there isn't always someone to blame. Sometimes things happen, misfortunes are natural and normal, it is okay to feel sadness, to experience loss, it's a part of life.
You came to this conclusion because youve only been exposed to maybe half of the story, please read the novel. Theres a reason theres only two human characters in the film... they cut out the real villains of the story.
25:00 This scene genuinely feels different when you've been in a situation like this. For example, I watched this movie after I personally(as in she was in my arms shaking as I gave her to a stranger while she probably thought I was abandoning her) had to give away my cat I had since I was five to someone who put her down quickly and painlessly when she was in pain and it made my heart hurt so hard I almost started crying. It's almost EXACTLY how it feels to have your pet euthanized or given away after getting attached to them, whether it be after a week or a few years.
i don't usually comment on videos but this video made me very emotional, it was very well made and im very happy i came across it :) the fox and the hound was a childhood favourite of mine so i really enjoyed watching this! thank you for this amazing video
I cried so damn hard at the scene where the widow has to drop Todd off in the forest. It really pushed the sadness hard because you could tell she was just reliving every moment she had spent with him for years, how he was her only companion out there. I cried as a kid and I cried as a young adult and I nearly cried as a uh... regular adult watching this review, even with your voiceover covering up the sad music and ambience.
(not complaining, this video is fantastic and I agree wholeheartedly)
Jesus christ I hated that scene because it made me cry
I still bawl at the scene. It's such a good scene but it hurts so much.
For me that's not the only time the movie really made me bawl. Even in the beginning, depending on how invested you are, you can get teary eyes somewhat. And of course the ending sequence with Copper standing in front of Amos to defend his friend, the subtle exchange between them when parting ways and Copper remembering his time with Tod when they were young. So many feels. What a wonderful movie.
God, I just watched that scene again and I had to pause and definitely check my allergies. As someone who's said goodbye to two childhood dogs that hits a lot harder now than it did as a kid (which was still very hard)
I remember being in my pillow fort watching her drop him off and crying so hard as a child, still brings me to tears
One thing I wanted to mention after watching the whole video was the treatment of Chief, because his entire arc is very well-written and executed. The entire reason Copper was brought to the farm was because Chief's getting old. He knows it, Amos knows it, the only character unaware of that /is/ Copper. A lot of his reactions to things had to do with his sense of aging out of being a proper hunting dog and fulfilling his purpose. But that's just the natural cycle of things, especially in this kind of setting where hunting and farming are their livelihood. Even the scene where he's hurt is telling for his character: he doesn't feel important or even useful anymore, and that's devastating to him. It's part of why Chief risked going out on the bridge to the train tracks even though, as an older and wiser character, he should've known that was a bad idea. Just like his owner, he was blind to the risks in search of revenge. He's almost a direct reflection of Amos. So while I find him not getting his seat on the way back from the hunt a little sad, I think it's just his denial that he's getting too old for this rather than anything malicious. A lot of this movie is themed around you can't fight the natural cycle of things forever, or people just get hurt and nature moves on anyways. I always took that away from it as a kid, especially not knowing at all about any war metaphors it was trying to make.
Can't agree more- especially on the poignant note of Chief being a direct reflection of Amos. I think that is seen again when Amos gets the same left leg injured during his vengeful hunt that Chief got injured; they faced their own unstoppable force (train vs bear) that led to their injuries.
@@jaredstemper669 I love that detail! Also, Train VS Bear sounds like a sick Syfy channel movie
@@That0little0witch haha I can see it now, like Sharknado or something
I got this video in my recommendations and I have to say, this was a wonderful watch! The narration, the pacing, the editing, everything was phenomenal!
When you were talking about Disney’s other anti-villains (or lack thereof), you put a note on John Silver saying you could make a case for him. I would love to see you breakdown Treasure Planet, not just for another anti-villain video, but for any reason you could come up with. I love your style of video and am definitely subscribing and turning notifications on!
10:06 this is a depiction of a harsh reality in life. The young will replace the old eventually, as the young reach their prime and the experience of the old is no longer enough to supplement their failing body.
Its something neither can help, and neither can stop. Its certainly not fair, after all your grandparents have been through, to sideline them and relegate them to a position of passive observer. But neither would it be fair for the youth to be stymied by the old and prevented from achieving their potential.
This scene shows that chief is _not_ the alpha dog anymore, or at the very least, that his position as it, is coming to an end.
It actually, as other commenters have said, was originally planned for Chief to die, but some of the higher-ups didn't want to go quite that far, and many fans apparently do agree that it would've been better for it to go that route.
Me, I don't mind, and thinking on it a bit, I think there is a way that Chief NOT dying unintentionally makes things _better_ at least if you look at it from the following angle: As mentioned, Chief, Amos, and Copper are comfortable and happy, despite everything, content with their lot, all in all. But, in part _because_ they've got it good, what is their response to just the mere _possibility_ of losing one another? Go out for revenge as if _near-loss_ is the same as _actual_ loss. Widow Tweed and Tod, in response to all this, part ways for Tod's safety, and as much as it hurts, they move on. This, I think, creates a stronger contrast between protagonists and antagonists, the protagonists are able, however reluctantly, to move past real loss and difficult decisions and situations, whereas Amos and Copper couldn't even _bare_ (no pun intended) a close shave with loss, even though Chief actually is mostly fine. It might make them more petty, but it also in my eyes makes sense if you look at it from a place of insecurity, they are blaming themselves and Tod for something that _could_ have happened, rather than what _actually_ happened. The uncertain future and what-if is too much for them, whereas harsh reality actually happening to them is something Tod and Widow Tweed, their counterparts, are able to move past, even though it hurts. At the end, Copper and Amos finally learn to do the same, and go home to reality of Chief, alive and well, and the life they still can live...
That's a good take, and (at least reading this now) I don't think I disagree.
I did think about it for a while when I was in the script-writing phase. If the execution were a little different, I might not have called it a flaw at all. But as it is, the train sequence is meant to be shocking and sudden, with Coppers actions resulting, at least as he sees it, in the death of Chief. Only a few scenes later to show us, "oh no he's fine, see?" It comes across as heavy-handed.
I like the comparison you made with Widow Tweed. I'd add that, where as the Widow letting go of her personal feelings results in good things (Tod never feeling happier), Amos not letting go of his results in disaster (getting nearly killed along with Copper). I wish I had mentioned it in my video, but oh well.
I think since it’s more about Copper feeling guilt there, than revenge for a loss since the death was removed. Cuz he did think Chief was dead at the time, and that him letting Tod go caused it. So for Amos it was revenge for almost killing Chief and Copper it was guilt of believing he caused it and a feeling of betrayal from his friend.
Both had to learn to accept what had happened, and move on. But I also feel like idea that Amos felt he was superior to nature in a way (he could kill, but if he was at risk of death he had the morally correct decision of killing), would’ve still worked better if Chief had died. But it didn’t really impact the issue with Copper as much, since his feelings were more complicated and less “I am morally righteous”.
I always liked that upon meeting Vixey the way Tod talks to her when she laughs at his failed fishing attempt was very similar to the kind of wording Amos used to talk to the Widow. Like that was his only form of reference.
yeah when he called her a "silly, empty-headed female" I was like "oh crap, amos rubbed off on him" lol
This is the first of your videos recomended to me by UA-cam's algorithm- and I cant get over how true your emotions sound as you talk about " old disney movies " an instant subscribe reason for me.. and yeah 25:17 SURE! I loved this video dearly and I will be looking forward to more of you. Thank you also- for choosing to talk about this movie, its one of my favourites and I just assume videos about it barely exist- so seeing one come up naturally on a sea of content was amazing.
Amos is definitely a villian but he seems like one of the few anti-villains. The fact that he gives up his obsession is a last minute redemption. One of the most realistic villains I can think of, too!
If you need some cute stuff to make up for the sadness of the Fox & The Hound, look up Duck & Weave, they are best friends :3
I grew up on this movie, and other "dark" ones. I'm honestly kind of shocked that my parents let me watch them. As afraid as I was of certain parts of this film, I watched it constantly. Something about movies like this are so pure and enthralling. Something a child actually thinks about and asks questions. They're so underrated as being good content for younger audiences. If Disney doesn't dare delve into this animation again, I'll do it myself.
Same, surprised, but also glad they did. Gen Z is really not prepared for this world, and you can tell pretty much immediately. I think these corporations have over-sanitized everything.
All that grit I had, from the Don Bluth films in my childhood, to the edgy 4chan that used to exist (they sterilized that too), to the horrific videos on liveleaks. None of it made me into a bad or emotionally unstable person. Frankly, it did the opposite. I'm better equipped to handle and utilize the emotions in constructive ways. It helped me understand the Jungian shadow and Machiavellian tendencies that threaten to bring civilization down.
And, call me tinfoil hat or whatever, but I think that's probably why they don't want to show people that anymore, because evil is currently running the world, and they want everyone numb and oblivious to it, drowning in pink bubblegum.
Anyway, I miss when animations were more real and honest.
"I'm honestly kind of shocked that my parents let me watch them"
I think that's your modern sensitivities speaking, which I think is too soft these days.
@@s2korpionic fr lol they're kids movies
As dark as it is, I think that I am still willing to classify it as wholesome, because it portrays life in a real, but non judgemental, manner.
@@s2korpionic I mean personally for me. I was really little. They were primarily for my sister, who's four years older than me and thus had a more mature taste for content. 😊 I was hiding behind couches, lol. But I still watched and loved them. I definitely agree things are way too over-sanitized, as you put it.
I think the best part about Amos is he's not just a straight-up villainous character, he isn't good or bad, he has flaws but his motivations are genuine, even if his actions are oftentimes not good. He's an embodiment of the movie, real and genuine.
You could tell just by watching the movie, Amos cares for his dogs especially when one of them gets hurt because of Todd.
He is a villain. 100%. He's a lawbreaker as well.
@@PurifedGameplays
Nope, he is indeed an Antivillain, but you’re just not used to seeing those. They typically walk the edge of true villainy without actually falling into it. Amos repented his anger, putting love first and foremost. A villain would have kicked copper aside, THEN shot Todd; if a shallow, 1 dimensional villain, he wouldn’t then care what happened next, but Amos isn’t shallow about his dogs, so he’d have watched in despair as Copper, refusing to eat out of grief for his friend, would slowly waste away, “Redfern Grows”-style, only then Amos would regret his actions, too late. That’s the difference.
@@PurifedGameplays if someone or something killed or almost killed my dog , I won't say I wouldn't have done the same.
@@PurifedGameplays Antagonist /= Evil
Amos is an antagonist but he's not evil, he's just a human with human flaws
“Thankfully, I don’t have feelings… otherwise this would have gotten to me.”
I honestly think that your continued emphasis on loneliness and friendship throughout this video is proof that you are capable of feeling.
The moral of the movie you said was ‘to let go’, so as to be able to give your relationships a chance to put your faith in and create some significant memories. When one is touched by malevolence, has an ego, or acts completely spiritless and becomes possessed by their habits, they will naturally seek, through one way or another, for a way to achieve spiritual freedom for the sake of having a truly ‘normal’ life.
This video about the movie made me cry whenever I heard the characters talk as children, because by being childlike, they were already normal, and had a heaven on earth.
Enlightenment is literally that state, and to make that into part of your default state despite the burdensome knowledge o e may accumulate, is the most powerful and completely developed character.
We should all strive to become childlike again, and to do so in a way that we won’t regret our actions afterwards, like how the hunter could have killed the fox for the sake of his own peace of mind, not allowing himself to be sensitive towards the fox who also excises that same level of humanity within it.
You hit every nail on the head in this video. You did amazing, I laughed so hard at a few parts! Thank you for this video!
You gotta love Chief, he was grumpy and he did get jealous of Copper, but he never turned on him.
The way Chief adopted Copper reminds me of how my old black lab adopted a golden retriever pup my dad got. He was already an older dog, getting gray and starting to get arthritic, he was 8 at the time the pup came around, but he fell in love with that pup. He looked out for him, and that pup kept him young for a long time. Even at the age of 11, he would still rough-house with the pup, and they played hard.
It would be heart warming if Amos petted and apologized to Todd
Maybe, but it would be just as weird to see that I think, I'm not sure it would suit his character. Maybe in a film where the humans and animals could talk to each other, but this one isn't. I wish I had gone more into this point, where most of the character's problems could have been solved if there was no language barrier.
I think the silent, non verbal exchange between Todd and Copper works best.
Patting Todd on the head would be extremely heavy handed.
@@keythelich I think it ended perfectly, where Amos gets a broken leg exactly like how Chief was.
@@keythelich I’ve seen some remakes in my time, and I’m okay with some of them, depending on how you see it from the context of either the story they previously adapted, or the source material they adapted from. For example, there were two live-action adaptations of the Jungle Book that I actually enjoyed, because of how Mowgli was handled as a character. In Mowgli's Story, and the 2016 remake, Mowgli was learning how to live among his fellow animal friends, knowing what he would do to not be as savage as most humans would be, which would be an advantage once Shere Khan killed his parental Wolf Guardian in both adaptations (the Mother in "Mowgli's Story" and the Father in the 2016 remake). In the original animated Disney adaptation, Mowgli wasn't given much of a choice, nor does he even figure things out for himself on how to handle the Jungle as a feral boy. You would think they would give him a lot to learn when he reaches the age of 10, but it felt like they didn't. It also didn't help that the movie tells us that Shere Khan is a ferocious killer, only to make it feel like Shere Khan couldn't even kill a Sloth Bear like Baloo; and what's worse is that in the sequel, Shere Khan's killing attempt didn't work on Lucky the Vulture either, and was being laughed at when Lucky is shown to be alive, despite the scratches he recieved.
To me, the original Disney Jungle Book is what most people would hate about the remakes today: soulless, lack of respect for the source material, and the detrimental changes it gave rather than beneficial; in other words, they feel more like demakes. And while I know some people don’t like the Maleficent movies, I don’t think it’s as bad as Mulan for trying to be SJW about it (despite the fact the original tale clearly saying she was more strategic, which the animated version kept intact), or how the Pinocchio film cared very little about the context (which the animated version does care about). I only liked the Maleficent movies because of the extra concepts based around fairy folklore than even Butch Hartman couldn't tackle. My only problem with these movies stem from parents who are too insensitive for their own good to teach their kids the importance of life.
Also, I’m not gonna like the Little Mermaid demake; not because the actress is of a different color, but because they already broke what doesn’t need to be fixed from the original fairy tale. I highly recommend checking out the ORIGINAL Little Mermaid by Hans Christian Andersen. My recommended adaptation for the story? The 1975 anime movie by Toei Animation. Despite how talkative it can be at times, the original context remained true in that movie.
@@keythelich Animals and humans talking to each other wouldn't have made any difference. Amos would've still killed them simply because they aren't human or part of his family. Hell, even humans talking to other humans doesn't change a lot.
Part of the difficulty of adding a second dog, especially when the first dog has only ever been the only dog, is that gradual sharing of privileges shown by Copper getting to sit in the front seat. As the second dog grows up, gains training and trustworthiness, the freedoms the first dog was used to having to themself start to become equally shared. Especially when it comes to an aging working dog and their successor (which is what Chief and Copper are), the younger dog has to gradually pick up the reins to learn before the older dog no longer can, which means the older dog doesn't always lead or have the most favored role and sometimes will even be left behind so the younger dog can practice independence before all the responsibility rests on them alone. It's a neat extra bit of realism!
This is my favorite Disney movie.
It's such a rollercoaster ride with emotional rocks smashing your feelings and making you feel warm in an hour and a half.
I remember when I saw the sequel to this movie. There was a scene with Slade and Tweed that was actually pretty touching. They were both looking for their pets and came across each other. Both of them said that if they came across the other's pets they'd let them know. Tweed was more gentle about it, but Slade, still the grumpy old man said "If I see hide or hair of that fox of yours, well.." he said it in an irritated voice, but nothing severe. It made me happy that each of them hoped the other would find their pet. Yes it was in a straight to dvd sequel, but it still had a bit of heart to it. Btw awesome video! You deserve more subs!
A good scene in a bad movie but still a good scene
@@ubermaster134 Eh I enjoyed the movie. It had some good country songs and honestly it may have been the fact that Reba was in it that made it one of my more favorite sequels.