Oranges and apples. Personally I don't think one style is better than the other because each has something fantastic to offer. I do agree that some of this comes down to cultural perspective, exposure, and depiction. although I've seen the same examples of grandiose masculinity in anime as well as what we see a lot in the west. Ghibli is special tho because it's a fresh of breath air if you are used to western formulas. Ghibli also doesn't try to soften the blow to their younger audiences, or tries to appeal to the current political landscape out of corporate greed the way Disney does currently, which I think creates this greater sense of respect and a recognition of maturity for their audience (I'm aware that much of these stories were colored by Miyazaki's own values tho, but at least I feel he respected and didn't belittle the audience he wanted to tell those stories to). It takes itself seriously and respectfully, in the sense that while Disney wants to transport us and make us laugh and feel that sense of grandiose adventure, Ghibli just seems to want to immerse us quietly and let itself sink into us. The quiet moments in those films is something completely unique to Ghibli that I think was virtually lost in Disney films a long time ago (Once upon a time, you could say that there was a similar style of beautiful scenic moments in their films as well). I think that right now, Disney feels like it is doing everything it can to market and make money off it's audience, which is why things don't feel as authentic or true to the heart anymore, and Ghibli doesn't feel like that. Most of the films feels like it was inspired off of a philosophy and someone's life lesson I Know that was a bit off-tangent to what this video was actually trying to get at. I feel like there are so many wonderful examples from Disney's history of heartfelt male characters despite emerging from romanticized stories, many of which you depicted, that do show an honest and vulnerable side to them amidst the adventure and trial. I also think that there is a variety of examples given how much their storytelling styles and focuses have evolved and shifted over time, it's not all necessarily a set in stone interpretation when you consider that evolution. But, I do think that in Ghibli's case, many of the characters, male and female, have a nuance that can come across as more subtle. Simpler, artistically yet realistic. And I think that is a testament to Miyazaki's own attention to detail about people and depicting their behavior, honestly. Him and the hard-working people he worked with. There's heavier focus on the natural and what fills those spaces vs Disney's curated performance and grander. Both still trying to capture an essence of humanity in whilst in different ways.
What an amazing comment, honestly thanks for this :) Really loved reading through your analysis and I couldn't agree more. Both Disney & Ghibli have their own pros and cons, and Disney's wonder, sense of adventure and romance is unparalleled. Ghibli's subtlety, nuance, and emotional depth is also just as unrivalled.
@@miguelmunuera2601 Are you a Millennial? You have the stereotypical Millennial beanie hat lol. I'm Gen Z. I've noticed quite the trend where Westerners think they're being "hipster" or "alternative" by suggesting Studio Ghibli is superior to Western storytelling. "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland", "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz", "Peter Pan", "The Chronicles of Narnia," "The Hobbit", "James and the Giant Peach", "Matilda", "Coraline", "the Iron Giant", "A Series of Unfortunate Events", "Bride to Terabithia," and "Atlantis: The Lost Empire" are just some examples of whimsical stories from the West. Characters like Son Goku, Tanjiro Kamado, and Eren Yeager disprove your artificial distinction between the "quiet and introspective" East and the "outgoing and adventurous" West. Did you know Miyozaki's son Goro tried to adapt Ursula Le Guin's "Earthsea Cycle"? It's called "Tales from Earthsea" and it flopped. It has a 38% on Rotten Tomatoes. Japan has two Disney parks. They are huge Disney fans.
This comes out of context, but as a Finnish guy who's grown with the Ghibli movies, I've noticed how the Finnish versions of them are a whole lot different from the English one. For example, Howl's name is translated straight from the OG Japanese version, so in Finland he's known as Hauru. Also they dropped the 'I' from Ashitaka, so he's just called Ashtaka. Then there's the wolf god Moro, and it's funny cuz that name is basically "g'day" in Finnish. Gotta say the Finnish dub is actually pretty good in Ghibli movies tho. Maybe because most of them came out at a time period when the finnish dubs were still consistent.
it's just like with female characters, the best male characters are those who are treated as strong characters who happen to be male instead of them being strong because they are male.
True but it's interesting to think about what we consider to be masculinity. I feel like in the west we see people that are heroic as real men, rather than people that are vulnerable
I'm pretty sure that when we have a strong male character it's never implied that it's because he is a guy, in general we have many other male characters that are weaker than him. In general we have more male characters than female ones because male is seen as the "default" by many writters.
@@miguelmunuera2601 It feels pointless for you to talk about masculinity when you just want to talk badly about others for internet fame: you're just another film obsessed twat who cares more about the fictitious than reality, in a time where people are forced out of industries and journalists (especially in film and gaming media) abuse audiences nonstop: they couldn't collapse fast enough.
No. Sailor Moon, Miraculous Ladybug, Kim Possible, and the Powerpuff Girls have strong female characters and they are different from Dragon Ball Z, Spectacular Spider-Man, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and Ben 10 which have strong male characters. Stephanie Meyer had to make some tweaks to her story when she wrote a genderbent version of Twilight with Beaufort and Edythe. This is also why Black Panther is so special. He's a celebration of Black culture. Instead of making him as generic as possible to please a wide audience, Marvel focused on making him authentic. I think this is why shows like CW's Supergirl or Velma are not as popular as the four shows I mentioned with strong female characters. They're not authentic. You could change Supergirl to Superman and Velma to Shaggy and it would be basically the same show.
I’ve got to be honest. I think Haku is one of Studio Ghibli’s most underrated male characters. He risks his life to help Chihiro, which most spirits wouldn’t even do because they hate humans. He protects her, takes care of her, even Kamaji and Zeniba knows he loves her. And he’s been through so much, he lost his home, his name. He became cold and serious, until Chihiro came into his life. The way he looks at her throughout the entire movie with such love and affection. I honestly wish he had more screen time cause watching him on screen made my heart ache
I have to agree honestly. He goes through so much to protect her and look after her..it's absolutely adorable..especially since he had absolutely 0 reason to do that. He just wanted to, showing how much of a good person he truly is. Their relationship is beautiful 🥹
Actually Haku’s got a huge reason to save Chihiro. According to an analysis by Tosho Okada, a Japanese producer, critic, journalist and UA-camr, Haku is Chihiro’s real elder brother who saved drowning Chihiro and instead got himself drowned in the river. That’s why Chihiro’s mother is not affectionate towards her. That’s how Haku became Kohaku river god even though he forgot who he really was. And that’s why they had to meet again at the bridge over the river. When we recalled that scene, we somehow get the subtle nuance that they are somehow not unfamiliar with each other. Huge respect to Miyazaki! (English is my second language, I hope you can understand what I’m trying to say)
What I also like about Ghibli films is that good and 'evil' characters are not as prominent as Disney's where you clearly know who the good and bad guy is. When I first watched Princess Mononoke I thought Lady Eboshi was the evil villain but turns out she was a complex woman herself who helped the outcasts in society and modernize life with technology even if it meant destroying the environment and it was really interesting to see typically male virtues on a strong, truly independent woman. I personally do not want being a 'masculine' woman myself but the cool thing about Ghibli is that they can express complex feminine and masculine characters without villainizing what would typically be the misfits and out of the stereotype characters in a Disney film
Game of Thrones? Daenerys Targaryen? I don't even watch GoT, but I have to pushback on the notion that Japanese storytelling is somehow more complex or sophisticated than Western storytelling. Japan has two Disney parks. They love Elsa and Rapunzel over there. They also love Harry Potter.
We all have a part of femininity and masculinity in each of us. We simply have to find the balance between the two like yin and yang: there is always a little part of dark and light in goodness and evil to express that things are not what they are at first glance and that we must always look deeper to truly understand that nothing is easy and Manichean. That's why I prefer Ghibli characters to Disney characters: they are complex because they are not what they are when we see them for the first time. Judgement must be put aside to understand why the characters do what they do. Disney has trouble with this concept. He who sees the world in a filter of good and evil, he tries to transcribe a world where there would exist on one side the good people and on the other, the most evil people. Where Ghibli doesn't hesitate to show you that no, reality is more complex than that, and that you shouldn't be afraid to face it head on. Princess Mononoke transcribes this very well with Ashitaka and the nature.
@@aesop1451 Try to name a trait of Daenery's that isn't "strong and imperialistic." She lacked a personality, a tenable motivation, and vulnerabilities other than her own hubris, which is the standard cryptonite of boring characters.
I believe the reason Quasimodo is such an outlier characterization-wise is because the "source material" of hunchback of notre dam - notre dam de paris by viktor hugo - is very different than the other tales disney usually uses, so it already starts out with a far more complex character
You can tell Hunchback is very un-Disney source material. Clopin always stood out as a hold over, from that being a jester type character AND the leader of an in movie faction. No way would Disney think of that on their own. Leaders are heroic if good, menacing if bad. Silly characters are side characters, like the gargoyles, Timon and Pumba, and the Beast's servants.
The reality is that Disney did not understand the Hunchback story and twist everything upside down to transform the narrative from "nobody is a monster but everybody have deep flaws making them act monstruously" to "rich people are good and poor people are evils"
This isn’t a strong argument when you consider the Disney version of Quasimodo and the book version are completely different. And most Disney source materials are much darker before being changed significantly by the movies.
I think Kenai fits in the Disney character category, which breaks all molds because he is a flawed character who finds redemption by raising an orphan.
Meet the Robinson’s is about an orphan, a flawed character whose obsession with invention hurts himself and his friend at first and his inability to move on from the past stops him from being able to seize a better future. Atlantis is about a brilliant guy whose grandfather raised him and he’s trying to redeem his name as he was mocked for trying to find Atlantis. Treasure planet is a boy who’s abandoned by his father trying to prove himself and become a man when he had no one to look up to for emulation as he tried to save the only family he has left after their inn is destroyed. Twenty thousands leagues is also a great Disney film. People seem to appreciate anyhting that’s like anime or not American they praise it more and Disney gets dismissed but Disney created many breakthroughs and beautiful films. Ghibli didn’t pioneer animation in itself the way Disney did, they invented feature length animation and don’t seem to get any respect for that. I liked spirited away and the music is nice in the films but I’m starting to sour on it. I’ve heard the creator hates America, though they’ve said he doesn’t like his own country either but regardless, and many keep pitting Disney against Ghibli like you’ve got to diss Disney to be new and hip and into Japanese stuff or whatever it is. It’s creating a bad taste. And it’s ironic as anime besides Ghibli has a bad relation mostly and most think of it as sort of sexual trite and kind of just dumb like big guns and half naked women and so on and hammy overacting and the fans as people who who have giant body pillows and are simps for other countries cultures but reject their own in a weird way. And yet you say that and they get defensive yet they’re oversimplifying and dissing Disney. Yes it sucks now but Disney is iconic and pioneered a lot of stuff and had beautiful rich art and storytelling. Characters also don’t have to be tortured and complicated to be good. I’m kind of sick of the weebo weirdness like if your character isn’t androgynous and blank faced half the time they’re not cool and deep. Ghibli has nice stuff but there’s flaws very likely you can find there as well, and many would say if anyhting they’re kind of copping Disney’s whole thing just in a different way.
Yeah, what I fully appreciated about his character was his stillness. Disney heroes are so loud and larger than life. Ashitaka is quiet, thoughtful and wise. He doesn't dominate his environment, he engages with it .
Great video, Miguel! I appreciate how, at the end, you theorized the potential cause for such stark differences between how the the two studios portray male characters. However, I think it’s a bad idea to “turn your brain off” during Disney movies. Now, unfortunately, a lot of recent Disney movies do kind of depend on you turning your brain off in order to enjoy them. But turning your brain off while watching movies like Aladdin, Tarzan, The Little Mermaid, and other renaissance movies means that you will probably miss many subtle clues and cues the characters/writers make that tell you about the characters’ personalities and their motivations. For example, Prince Eric choosing to help Ariel on the beach when she gets her legs shows you that he is willing to help someone EVEN THOUGH he doesn’t think that she is the girl that saved his life. He still personally makes sure that she is given everything she needs and he even makes her his guest at the palace because he wants what’s best for her. It’s a subtle way to tell you about his personality and his values that might be missed by the audience if they do “turn their brain off”.
You're absolutely right!! And I'm definitely not trying to say you SHOULD turn your brain off, just that some Disney movies are definitely meant for escapism and enjoyment rather than deep analysis. But both are good ways of taking them in imo :) Thanks for the support btw 🥹♥️
With Disney character's being focused on their individual goals and accomplishments, and Ghibli's focus being on relationships, romantic, platonic, and social standing, I think it also shows the difference of Individualism vs Collectivism. Two sides to the same coin, the US is highly Individualistic while Japan is just as highly Collective in it's culture and you can see it in the stories told by both.
Looking back, despite not having anywhere near as many films as Disney, it's clear to me these days that Ghibli definitely had the "quality over quantity" approach :)
1000%. Ghibli definitely benefited from doing way less movies compared to Disney. That being said, Ghibli is also a miniscule company in terms of employee size, compared to Disney hahah
Eric has more to him than what’s explicitly stated. He shows humility, a love for animals, an appreciation for danger, a helpful and fantastic sailor, a desire for true connection. And I will die on this hill, Eric is awesome.
@miguelmunuera2601 you could put more flesh on his bones. But why? It would just be padding as the first comment above illustrates we already know who he is in all the ways that matter.
well..thats definitely not what i'd call complex, its pretty standard. hes there to be the perfect prince, theres notmuch nuance to anything you described.
@@adamantiiispencespence4012 um..because hes literaly the character the main character falls in love with so yes, one could expect him to be more fleshed out.
Dude, the poor Ashitaka lost his tribe, his hair, this throne, his right to have heirs, go on exile, and he has like days from a very painful and merciless death. Ashitaka doesnt have time to find a girlfriend, and accidentaly he finds the most unique of them all... Ghibli has a fragrancy of storytelling, a subtle perfum called "a piece of my soul", you do never know what is behind or in front of this characters, as we, watchers and listeners of this tales, dont know what our lives will be tomorrow...
I love both styles. Disney feels fantastical and something I can dream about, while Ghibli feels realistic and calming. To me at least. It's all about the styles to writing characters.
You won't regret watching them. Honestly there's no way to communicate how interesting the characters are, despite the slower pacing and introspection. The worldbuilding usually makes every still moment worth it. Disney films are predictable, but Ghibli always surprises and moves me in ways I can't describe. The virtue displayed alongside the darker parts of humanity (war, pollution, etc) is inspiring. The issues they deal with are so grounded, relying on the character's choice to grow and move forward, as opposed to the childish plots of Disney, which rely on grand events and opportunities and obvious villains. I suppose the best way to sum it up is that Ghibli movies are more intimate. Almost like a meditation rather than a distraction. They bring me a lot of peace, but by no means are they not exciting.
Perfectly explained at the end. Thank you! The story telling between the two studios are down their cultures. Yes Disney has evolved much. Both for the male and female genders. Instead of the typical three stages storyline. Studio Ghibli goes through four stages. My favorite Disney films aren’t necessarily male driven but develops male role models to have personal depth and growth. Sword in the Stone and Aladdin. Studio Ghibli I love many films. The genders roles are shared 50/50 in addition it is realistic representing life. Life isn’t about fairytale and happily ever after. With that thank you for the wonderful content! Hope you had a wonderful holiday and Happy New Year!!
Oh my god thank you!!! You really didn't have to but I appreciate the donation so much 🥹 You're the best! And yeah I totally agree with you Happy New Year, I hope you're having amazing holidays :)
In Porco Rosso, it’s quite the opposite. We can see trough all the movie the evolution of Marco who is at the begining of the movie, an ancient pilot of the war who is traumatized by the lost of his comrades and thinks that he has a duty for get back his honor. But when he meet Fio, a young girl passionated about aviation that support him, he change gradually. I thinks that Porco Rosso is very underrated among the Ghibli’s movie, it has great characters and a good story but I don’t see that much of people talking about it. Anyway, great video !
It really is so underrated!! When people talk about ghibli I feel like they barely ever mention Porco Rosso but it's so good. For the development but also for just the vibe of the movie too
Honestly, I love both Disney and Ghibli male characters. Howl is equally as interesting as Kuzco and Aladdin. However, I think it's a little unfair to compare Hercules or Aladdin to Howl or Haku. While the latter examples play a crucial part in their stories, they aren't the main character. They are deuteragonists. While they are major players, part of their main function is to still support and assist the main character. Of course they are "gonna operate in the background and support the complex narrative", that's literally their function in the story. That's like saying that Vegeta is a better character than Goku, because he supports others in battles while being a conflicted tsundere about it over Goku who steals the spotlight. Like...yeah, that's his whole purpose as a character. Instead, I think male protagonists like Porco Rosso, Seita and Sosuke would be better examples for a comparison to the Disney male protagonists. Those are undoubtedly the protagonists of their stories. Plus, I don't think Kuzco is in the same camp as someone like Jim Hawkins. Kuzco starts off the story as an arrogant and self absorbed asshole. He gets turned into a common pack animal is forced to face on his flaws face on, and becomes a better person over time. Jim is a troubled teenager, who is dealing with abandonment issues after his father walked out on him. He bonds with John Silver. He learns to open up again. Kuzco seems much closer to someone like Howl than Jim. Jim Hawkins is more like Aladdin than anyone else.
Yeah definitely great points. And most of what I mention is also relevant for Pazu, Porco and others. Also, Ashitaka is a great example of a protagonist that is also very much supportive of San and her endeavor. I definitely get what you're saying though with some of the comparisons. (I love Aladdin but for me Howl takes the cake regardless hahah)
Interesting take on Kuzco v Jim. It's funny cause I kind of feel like Jim is actually more like Howl than Kuzco. Howl isn't inherently an asshole at first, he simply has issues and slowly learns to open up and accept his flaws, kind of like Jim. What do you think? :)
Dreamworks males are pretty interesting. Shrek trying to save the day? No! He wants his swamp back Does Hiccup have super powers? No! He has his wits, intelligence, strong empathy and his sarcasm😂 Spirit? Wants to get back to his family. Pixar is a lot more nuanced to
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with either Disney’s or Ghibli’s style of character writing, they’re just different styles of writing. It can still be really impactful, whether intricately complex or nicely simple.
11:35 How DARE you show Grave of the Fireflies when talking about how complex characters and stories can leave a mark. I'm still not over that movie 20 years later after watching it for the first time. A perfect example yes, but It's traumatizing man! XD
You forgot to say that while Ashitaka and Haku are Studio Ghibli/Miyazaki's original characters, Howl isn't. Howl's Moving Castle was adapted from a novel with the same name written by a British author. Howl's Moving Castle has Western sensibilities with bolder characters, like Howl, a parallel with Flynn Rider's character in Disney. While characters like Haku and Ashitaka are more naturalistic, more like a real person, more introspective, admiring nature (the concept of wabi sabi: appreciating nature's beauty that is imperfect and impermanent) as well as their interactions with people that can be both high stakes or mundane. Western animation seems more to be about spectular events or characters (otherwise in the Western person's mind why bother to animate) while Japan combines both the dynamic, always moving nature of the West with the more meditative, contemplative, introspective nature of the East, resulting in something I would call "best cultural mix, Best of both worlds" that's why Ghibli movies seem more special, they have that "je ne sais quoi" that Western animated movies (especially American ones, especially Disney) don't usually have.
I find so interesting these comparisons between Disney and Ghibli animations. Like, I prefer Ghibli, but I also love Disney's animations, they both have their strengths and studying it is so rich.
In my opinion, the biggest comparison of Japanese and Hollywood story telling is a movie called “Kikujiro’s summer”. It’s a movie that if you are used to Hollywood you’ll feel the pacing is slow to a crawl but it’s a great movie. It’s like a movie that felt like 90% of the time it’s not doing anything with the main plot, but actually is, just very very subtle. But all that “white space” is serving a purpose.
For your information Tarzan was written over 100 years ago and the Tarzan in the books is more complex then the Disney version. Joe Lara's tv series portrayed him best in this regard. He is intelligent, taught himself to read and fight, and is a skilled polyglot.
Hercules and Aladdin are some of my favorite animated heroes. Their roles as characters and even the overall point of their films are different from Ghibli characters.
It's hard to say that one is better or worse than the other, because how do you quantify what makes a story better than another story? I think they both have their pros and cons- disney stories tend to be simpler to understand and are easier for kids to follow along with. Its easier to pick out whos "good" and whos "bad." The downside is that the plots tend to mimic each other and can become predictable and even a bit boring. Ghiblis strengths are that all of the characters tend to have a lot of depth and are really compelling, but these finer details are overlooked by a younger audience. The level of thoughtful detail makes Ghibli movies incredibly rewatchable, as you continue to recognize and learn new details, and even interpret them differently over the years. Disney storytelling tends to be much more definitive versus Ghiblis subjectivity. Disney likes to tell you what's good and what's bad, whereas Ghibli just tells you things as they are and lets you decide how to feel. I think both are fine in terms of storytelling, it mostly depends on what story you want to tell and how you want the audience to feel.
Honestly so well said. I completely agree, and it's partly what I mention in my video. They just serve different purposes and have their own pros and cons.
Disney characters are like a carefully prepared gourmet meal, formulated and exact. Ghibli charcaters are like the nostalgic childhood dish your granma always make you, irreplacable and non-replicable.
I resonate more with ghibli because they can show that a story with a male n a female protagonists doesnt always need to end up/to be about romance at all, but respecting n supporting each other as fellow human beings. Even when there is romance (like whisper of the hearts n the wind rises), romance isnt being exploited too much, n lean more towards how each pursue their goal/dream before supporting each other as humanely as possible after their path crossed.
Hercules, Aladdin, The Beast, Simba, Mowgli, … all the classic male characters - were all very real to me. But now the modern Disney movies feel so fake to me.
The Hunchback of Notre Dame is such a unique Disney film in general! It is without a doubt the most underrated Disney movie ever made, the thing is a master piece beyond all the other Disney movies and the Ghibli movies.
Nailed the characters once again. My thoughts in the relationship in Ghibli is that they often feel they can go either way. Like if they seem like a good match that don't get together at the end, they could either get together later on or just remain friends. Whenever I watch a Ghibli movie, I often think 'Oh these two would be good together but they're also really good friends. Either way their relationship go is fine by me.' Disney take notes! These are the kind of characters we want to see.
Exactly!! Because it's kinda like real life...sometimes we meet amazing people that would be great as friends or as partners and it just develops naturally
Your analysis beautifully captures the nuanced differences between Studio Ghibli and Disney. It’s clear that both styles have unique strengths, shaped by cultural contexts, creative philosophies, and business imperatives. Studio Ghibli’s approach often feels deeply personal, philosophical, and grounded in human nature. Its focus on quiet moments and natural beauty reflects a desire to immerse the audience in the world, allowing for introspection and subtle emotional resonance. This contrasts with Disney’s tendency toward grandiosity, humor, and spectacle, designed to transport and entertain in a more overtly structured way. The difference isn’t necessarily in quality but in intention and delivery. Ghibli’s ability to respect its audience, regardless of age, and tackle complex themes without condescension is a testament to Miyazaki’s and his team’s artistry. Their characters, both male and female, often embody a quiet strength and authenticity that resonate deeply, even in fantastical settings. This approach creates a sense of timelessness and relatability, reflecting life’s beauty and challenges in a profound yet understated manner. On the other hand, Disney’s evolution over decades has seen shifts in storytelling priorities, balancing heartfelt narratives with the demands of being a commercial giant. While this has led to some formulaic tendencies, Disney’s historical works have indeed portrayed vulnerability and sincerity in their characters, capturing moments of genuine humanity amidst their grander adventures. The comparison isn’t about which is better but about appreciating the unique storytelling lenses each studio offers. Ghibli feels like a reflective walk through a serene forest, while Disney often feels like a dazzling fireworks display. Both are beautiful in their own ways, offering complementary experiences rather than competing ones.
@@bestduelistever2374He doesn’t technically kidnap the old man, he arrests a trespasser. And also in the source material the old man violated hospitality rules by stealing a rose from the beast’s garden.
So, it seems writing a good character is simply writing a person, probably not really caring about gender at first. Get the basic character traits and their relationship to the people and environment around them. That's my best educated guess, anyway.
Good job. Maybe the above is the reason why Miyazaki's movie make me emotional even years after watching them, while Pixar and Disney's in general are fun but I rarely care enough to watch them again.
This video highlights what should remain unchanged at Disney and how Ghibli's focus on emotional connections could have benefited Disney. While I appreciate Disney's male heroes, replacing them with female ones creates imbalance and doesn't solve anything.
Its not just their deeds but i also think the time period, because Ghibli more takes place in ur time while disney mostely takes place in the middle age (except tiana).
Very good explanation! I like how you mentioned the culture differences. I love how Studio Ghibli portrays their male (and female) characters, especially in contrast to Disney. I have been talking a lot about this to some people I know, but somehow, they are very much less enthusiastic than I am lol! It is great to see that there are many others who appreciate it as well!
I think that’s why I’ve always like shonen anime, it’s kind of a mixture of both east and west story telling, strong male protagonist, hero’s journey, action, but it still has a lot of that Japanese introspective character development
Astrid Lindgren was a master of this. not only in portraying real people, and real life, but real children. Something i think is really uncommon. And not just real children in their personality, but in their problems, their life, what they think about and how they react to things.
I’d like to add Tove Jansson too! Both Astrid and Tove really mastered the sombre tone and fleeting feeling of childhood that we also see in many Ghibli movies. I think the Scandinavian sensibilities work really well with the japanese - so it’s no wonder that it was a japanese studio that animated Tove’s beloved stories about Moomin, and that studio Ghibli animated Astrid Lindgren’s story about Ronja the Robber’s Daughter :)
I'm not sure if the cultural difference is really a valid argument. The hero journey might not be the style used by Ghibli but when we see all the anime and shonen coming from Japan we see that this type of storytelling is very popular in japanese culture as well. Nice video, I recommend you an old animation movie that I think you might like (if you haven't watched it already): The Last Unicorn
Thats true, but that's also what sets Ghibli apart. I do think that in general though eastern storytelling (apart from anime) is much less focused on the hero's journey than the west. Ooo interesting recommendation, just added it to my watch list!
A big issue I have with current Disney male leads are that they're following the Hollywood cliche of the stoic, egotistical, jaded, and/or selfish man, ie Naveen, Flynn, Nick (though his actually played a role in the story), and Maui. Hiro and Kristoff are the main exceptions lately. And slight segue, but I really wish Disney would make more male-led musicals; we haven't had any since the 90s, and Disney often prioritizes female leads in musicals and otherwise.
@miguelmunuera2601 Sadly, it's all tied to the merchandise. For Disney, female leads are more marketable than male ones. I praise Disney for having more female leads that any other animation film company, but as a male Disney fan, I do wish they had more male leads lately. "Strange World" was a neat idea to have a male lead and an adult lead vs a young adult, but Searcher's movie was pretty awful--then again, almost every Disney film since "Frozen 2" has had production issues.
@@OpticalSorcerer also, Disney kinda sabotage some of their own movies with male leads (ahem Treasure Planet with Jim Hawkins and Atlantis with Milo)😅
@@OpticalSorcerer That's why I said "kinda." I am just thinking that maybe they kinda sabotage those films but yeah, those are just fan theories and speculations that I've heard.
No wonder why American cartoons and comics have become more popular than animanga, Humanity has always wanted aspirational heroes while relatable heroes are somewhat recent. (In comparison)
@@ManFromThePits in America a single comic sold more than half of all manga. One comic. (Bones) I’m not from America so I don’t know how popular comics are other than sales but in countries like Australia comics and cartoons are decimating manga
@RWR785 Really? I mean, the old-time classic comics (like Superman's first appearance) can sell for hundreds of thousands, even millions. But modern comics are dying on the shelves, rarely lasting more than a few issues. Maybe it's those high-value comics from the 40's that are skewing the sales? Basically anything before 2005 is popular, and everything else gets ignored. Meanwhile, everyone seems to be latching onto Manga as an alternative. There's a real upheaval going on here. At least that's what I hear.
@@ManFromThePits don’t let this distract you from the fact rent a girlfriend got season 3 before spectacular spider-man. I like new gen anime but old gen cartoons just hit that spot. (Arcane and spiderverse carry new gen cartoons and it’s not even close)
as much as i love disney men i mean some i love ghibi men they hit so different ghibi is the master of heart felt and soft that what makes me love ghibi stories
I think some of it might be the musical numbers. Disney movies spend a lot of their run time on music, while Ghibli uses that run time on character development and silence. Japan also has the concept of the wagoto protagonist. Or a softer more realistic character whose goals usually revolve around something a bit more realistic, as a contrast to the aragoto protagonists who are the more typical hero archetype.
Great point. The musical numbers definitely give you less time to focus on character and story but at the same time they elevate some of Disney's movies into the upper echelon of animation. There's very little that's better than a great Disney song
AMC my local chain has Ghibli Fest where they rerelease Ghibli films for a night or two, and I love them. I’ve watched some and I’ve re fallen in love with their work, and they are always have people in them. My brother and I are often the only people in other movies. Why I love them you can so clearly see these characters having lives after the credits. You know you are witnessing only a page or two in their lives. Disney gives you the full book so to speak.
That sounds so nice 😍 I wish they had something similar where I live. But you're right, it definitely feels like you're just getting a few pages of the characters book
I would like to argue that Eric goes through a sort of character arch. Through the movie, we see him seeking this mystical idea of ‘the woman who saved him’ and while we, as the audience, know that this happened (and that this woman is our protagonist), nobody else, including him, is sure. He’s just chasing a person he doesn’t know even exists, and he’s so fixated in her he’s willing to reject any type of romance for her (Which is cool and all, but slightly worrisome in real life). And then he meets Ariel, and he likes her, he really likes her. But he’s still attached to the mysterious woman, so, for the first days, Eric rejects any form of advancements coming from Ariel. At first. But then, as the movie progresses we see them coming closer until he falls for Ariel. And we see this in the scene before he gets brainwashed by Ursula, in a cliff side, as he’s pondering for his love for both girls. For most of the movie, Eric’s attachment to the mystery woman is represented by the melody that Ariel sings. At the mentioned scene, he’s playing that same melody with his flute. And then he throws the flute to the ocean. Because he knows who he’s chosen. (Not gonna lie, one of my favorite pieces of visual symbolism). Of course, when he finds out the mystery woman is Ariel, he’s surprised and excited, but it’s feels more like a bonus for himself, rather than “oh so that person was u all along, guess I now like u lol” (that was also after literally getting brainwashed and almost forced to marry someone, so I’ll let it pass). In conclusion, Eric did have a character arch, it’s just more subtle, which in itself works within the film.
It certainly varies from case to case and based on personal experience, but I am of the opinion that some of the most interesting Disney characters are precisely the secondary ones (or the supporting ones): Silver is the first example that comes to mind, because it differs in part from the original model, taking some characteristics from a Rai adaptation of the 80s, Treasure Island in Outer Space (there Silver was played by Anthony Quinn, by the way). But another example that comes to mind is Kerchak: I don't know if I've already said it under another video of this channel (if so, I apologize, Miguel😅), but Kerchak makes up for the minor development that we see in the character of Tarzan. If the latter remains fundamentally consistent with himself throughout the film, the gorilla begins his journey with the loss of his biological son and the awareness that Tarzan's adoption by Kala is nothing more than a palliative. "Okay, he can stay." "Kerchak, I know he'll be a good son.." "I said he can stay. That doesn't make him my son." Later, however - and I would say almost unconsciously - Kerchak intervenes against Sabor to protect Tarzan as well, until the latter proves his worth against the leopard. And it is particularly indicative that, to date, Kerchak is perhaps the only father in Disney filmography to die to protect his son (up until that point, the only father whose death we knew during the film was Cinderella's). I do agree, however, that in both productions - Ghibli and Disney - there are examples to keep in mind, as far as the male characters are concerned: speaking of the protagonists, Quasimodo is certainly the one who immediately catches the eye, also because of the changes that occurred in the transition from Hugo's novel to the animated transposition...just look at the scene of Quasi's hesitation in warning Clopin and his friends of Frollo's arrival. Quasimodo is faced with the choice of whether to act for the good of others - at the expense of his own selfishness - or to give in to his first impulse of jealousy towards Phoebus and Esmeralda. I'll say a word about the princes: if Naveem is perhaps the prince of actual royal blood who comes closest to having a satisfying narrative arc and understanding that there are other things in life (thanks to the journey he takes with Tiana), I have to say that Philip (just to not bring up Eric, since I've seen other comments mention it) would have had good potential as a prince outside the canons. He would have a good personality - a little sarcastic towards his horse, but also ironic towards Aurora - and he even has some funny lines... unfortunately, whether it's the length, or the narrative scheme followed (which gives much more personality to Maleficent and the three good fairies) it doesn't stand out as it should... but I think that some seeds planted in that film have borne fruit for characters like Aladdin or Flynn.
I LOVED reading through this comment. I actually hadn't thought about Kerchak but he's such an interesting character in Tarzan, and obviously Captain Silver is too. Really loved your breakdown of some of these :) thanks for it!
It's interesting, that you didn't mention Mahito from the boy and the heron. Every other movie shown (maybe except of Porco Rosso) has also a main female protagonist in the Ghibli movies. I'm interested in your opinion about Mahito as the only male main protagonist. 🙂
Honestly I completely forgot about Mahito just because of how recent the movie is hahah. I also think what I mentioned applies though, Mahito is SO pensive, determined, somewhat reserved and has so many moments of quiet and character development. Really love Mahito
Very, very well done video. You have a great eye for analysis and catching those character details that can easily go unnoticed. Subscribed! Keep it up
This is such a great vid thank you! Ive always thought why i never really got into movies su h marvel and stuff. Ive always loved ghibli and anime in general Ive always found myself looking for introspection, inner growth and the complexities of human behaviours. Thank toy this is amazing
Great essay. I think we are really having a conversation about what it means to be a man: Is masculinity just this larger-than-life facade and success, or is it something deeper? I think anime, in general, has a lot to teach Western audiences about how to be adult men.
I think there are a few male Disney heroes that get overlooked (most of them from the old days)... Pinocchio, Mr. Toad, Winnie the Pooh, and Basil. Pinocchio is literally a poor kid thrust into a harsh, corrupt world and having to try to maintain a moral core when the odds are completely against him. Mr. Toad is an eccentric who is constantly getting into trouble with his manic pursuits. Winnie the Pooh is a chill guy vibing with his friends and basically taking life at a slow, easy pace. Basil is a crack detective who is very full of himself, and, while he wants to do good and solve the case, he's in it just as much for the fun (and besting his rival, who's also the main villain). Basil and Ratigan are very much mirrors of each other, and Basil himself is quite devious and even a little unhinged for your average Disney hero. Lots of Disney analysis these days seems to focus on the modern (Renaissance and onwards) stuff, when I genuinely think that the studio's best output was actually made when Walt was in charge. There's lots of sophistication and subtext to those older films. I highly recommend you watch a video called "The Artist vs. the Machine" for more information on that topic. Needless to say, modern Disney doesn't have the balls to make something like Education for Death. Also, if you want an example of Western animation tackling deeper themes and more unconventional storytelling with characters that feel less like archetypes and more like, well, people, check out Don Bluth's work, specifically his first four films (The Secret of NIMH, An American Tail, The Land Before Time, and All Dogs Go to Heaven). His films are among the most hardcore G films ever made. Another example (sort of Disney, sort of not) is The Brave Little Toaster.
Im aorry, but anyone thinking ashitaka is somehow realistic is a liar. He was the same kind of sweet bean, self sacrificing, overly dedicated man that all disney men are.
@miguelmunuera2601 that's my point. Most people, in general, are not like that. The more realistic men are always the background characters. In both disney and in ghibli
This was good! Would love to see your take on Avatar: The Last Airbender, considering its a western story on the asian values of balance and harmony, personified with the character of Aang and how this may be complicated with the follow-up series, The Legend of Korra. I just discovered your channel, so I don't know if you've already done this.
I haven't but honestly would LOVE to do a breakdown on Avatar. That being said there are already so many breakdowns on the topic that I would have to think of a different angle
I think it's a bit unfair to compare Ghibli characters to most Disney princes because Ghibli focuses mainly on humanity (in the most general way), while those kind of Disney movies focus mostly on highlighting princesses (with a few exceptions like Pinocchio, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, the Beast etc)...Pixar on the other hand, I feel like that's more of a fair comparison when it comes to male leads not just with Ralph, but with Carl and Russel in UP, Linguini in Ratatuille, Andy in Toy Story and many other male leads if they were people instead of monsters, cars, fishes or rats lol
After watching bunch of Ghibli movies, I think most of the male characters seems unique bcs it written with different purpose. Miyazaki always put his own touch to his characters. He tried to show that male character of his have complex emotional struggle inside them. Like coming of age movie. Which this archetype usually used a lot for FL or other female character.
I'm surprise that you didn't mentioned Stitch, he isn't human but don't really fit any specific character archetype and is relativly complex. It seems that Disney tend to creat more human character those recent years with Encanto being about a familly conflict rather than an epic quest, or Maoi who is more complexe than simply an archetype and could be seen as the actual antagonist since he is the one that stole the goddess' heart even if he isn't evil. But with people complaining that "Disney is dead" they may retrun to the more cliche formula.
I was having a discussion with a peer about Ghibli vs Disney. And we came to the verdict that Disney movies feel like theme parks, and Ghibli feels more human.
This video just randomly popped up on my "suggested" list, and buddy, you just got yourself another subscriber. (I am an English teacher/new writer working on a retelling of some of the more obscure Grimm Fairytales, and this video gave me a lot of good stuff to think about. I can't wait to watch the rest of your work!)
Your wrong Disney are more memorable because they are aspirational and iconic , ghibli is more less popular because they are relatable and not as marketed or hyped up, if a character does not take center stage then they are not the “main main character” many people recognize Disney male characters more because they are made to impress. But to say they are less memorable is very wrong. Most kids in my generation recognize Disney and remember Disney characters more than ghibli because ghibli is more for adults . Ghibli characters are not made to impress .the more relatable the character is the more slice of life feeling the more they fade into the background. They don’t spark the same excitement but more reminiscent of sentiments that sometimes people want to forget because it’s sad . Disney is made more for kids and ghibli more for adults
The best part about Ghibli's Animation is you can rewatch every one of these Movies and find something new, something subtle, something you didn't notice the first time you watched it. I loved to watch both Disney and Ghibli during my childhood, but the values Ghibli portrayed is more in tune with my own values today.
Well hercules was made to be jerk both before and after he became a 'hero' so i never understood his appeal myself either. Personally I loved Hades voiced by James Woods.
Oranges and apples. Personally I don't think one style is better than the other because each has something fantastic to offer. I do agree that some of this comes down to cultural perspective, exposure, and depiction. although I've seen the same examples of grandiose masculinity in anime as well as what we see a lot in the west. Ghibli is special tho because it's a fresh of breath air if you are used to western formulas. Ghibli also doesn't try to soften the blow to their younger audiences, or tries to appeal to the current political landscape out of corporate greed the way Disney does currently, which I think creates this greater sense of respect and a recognition of maturity for their audience (I'm aware that much of these stories were colored by Miyazaki's own values tho, but at least I feel he respected and didn't belittle the audience he wanted to tell those stories to). It takes itself seriously and respectfully, in the sense that while Disney wants to transport us and make us laugh and feel that sense of grandiose adventure, Ghibli just seems to want to immerse us quietly and let itself sink into us. The quiet moments in those films is something completely unique to Ghibli that I think was virtually lost in Disney films a long time ago (Once upon a time, you could say that there was a similar style of beautiful scenic moments in their films as well). I think that right now, Disney feels like it is doing everything it can to market and make money off it's audience, which is why things don't feel as authentic or true to the heart anymore, and Ghibli doesn't feel like that. Most of the films feels like it was inspired off of a philosophy and someone's life lesson
I Know that was a bit off-tangent to what this video was actually trying to get at. I feel like there are so many wonderful examples from Disney's history of heartfelt male characters despite emerging from romanticized stories, many of which you depicted, that do show an honest and vulnerable side to them amidst the adventure and trial. I also think that there is a variety of examples given how much their storytelling styles and focuses have evolved and shifted over time, it's not all necessarily a set in stone interpretation when you consider that evolution. But, I do think that in Ghibli's case, many of the characters, male and female, have a nuance that can come across as more subtle. Simpler, artistically yet realistic. And I think that is a testament to Miyazaki's own attention to detail about people and depicting their behavior, honestly. Him and the hard-working people he worked with. There's heavier focus on the natural and what fills those spaces vs Disney's curated performance and grander. Both still trying to capture an essence of humanity in whilst in different ways.
What an amazing comment, honestly thanks for this :) Really loved reading through your analysis and I couldn't agree more. Both Disney & Ghibli have their own pros and cons, and Disney's wonder, sense of adventure and romance is unparalleled. Ghibli's subtlety, nuance, and emotional depth is also just as unrivalled.
@@miguelmunuera2601 Are you a Millennial? You have the stereotypical Millennial beanie hat lol. I'm Gen Z. I've noticed quite the trend where Westerners think they're being "hipster" or "alternative" by suggesting Studio Ghibli is superior to Western storytelling. "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland", "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz", "Peter Pan", "The Chronicles of Narnia," "The Hobbit", "James and the Giant Peach", "Matilda", "Coraline", "the Iron Giant", "A Series of Unfortunate Events", "Bride to Terabithia," and "Atlantis: The Lost Empire" are just some examples of whimsical stories from the West. Characters like Son Goku, Tanjiro Kamado, and Eren Yeager disprove your artificial distinction between the "quiet and introspective" East and the "outgoing and adventurous" West. Did you know Miyozaki's son Goro tried to adapt Ursula Le Guin's "Earthsea Cycle"? It's called "Tales from Earthsea" and it flopped. It has a 38% on Rotten Tomatoes. Japan has two Disney parks. They are huge Disney fans.
@@aesop1451 is this a weird flex? you are putting words in someone's mouth.
This comes out of context, but as a Finnish guy who's grown with the Ghibli movies, I've noticed how the Finnish versions of them are a whole lot different from the English one.
For example, Howl's name is translated straight from the OG Japanese version, so in Finland he's known as Hauru. Also they dropped the 'I' from Ashitaka, so he's just called Ashtaka.
Then there's the wolf god Moro, and it's funny cuz that name is basically "g'day" in Finnish. Gotta say the Finnish dub is actually pretty good in Ghibli movies tho. Maybe because most of them came out at a time period when the finnish dubs were still consistent.
I agree, both styles have their merits.
it's just like with female characters, the best male characters are those who are treated as strong characters who happen to be male instead of them being strong because they are male.
True but it's interesting to think about what we consider to be masculinity. I feel like in the west we see people that are heroic as real men, rather than people that are vulnerable
@@miguelmunuera2601 idk men, Hercules is literally me Fr fr
I'm pretty sure that when we have a strong male character it's never implied that it's because he is a guy, in general we have many other male characters that are weaker than him. In general we have more male characters than female ones because male is seen as the "default" by many writters.
@@miguelmunuera2601 It feels pointless for you to talk about masculinity when you just want to talk badly about others for internet fame: you're just another film obsessed twat who cares more about the fictitious than reality, in a time where people are forced out of industries and journalists (especially in film and gaming media) abuse audiences nonstop: they couldn't collapse fast enough.
No. Sailor Moon, Miraculous Ladybug, Kim Possible, and the Powerpuff Girls have strong female characters and they are different from Dragon Ball Z, Spectacular Spider-Man, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and Ben 10 which have strong male characters. Stephanie Meyer had to make some tweaks to her story when she wrote a genderbent version of Twilight with Beaufort and Edythe. This is also why Black Panther is so special. He's a celebration of Black culture. Instead of making him as generic as possible to please a wide audience, Marvel focused on making him authentic. I think this is why shows like CW's Supergirl or Velma are not as popular as the four shows I mentioned with strong female characters. They're not authentic. You could change Supergirl to Superman and Velma to Shaggy and it would be basically the same show.
I’ve got to be honest. I think Haku is one of Studio Ghibli’s most underrated male characters. He risks his life to help Chihiro, which most spirits wouldn’t even do because they hate humans. He protects her, takes care of her, even Kamaji and Zeniba knows he loves her. And he’s been through so much, he lost his home, his name. He became cold and serious, until Chihiro came into his life. The way he looks at her throughout the entire movie with such love and affection. I honestly wish he had more screen time cause watching him on screen made my heart ache
I have to agree honestly. He goes through so much to protect her and look after her..it's absolutely adorable..especially since he had absolutely 0 reason to do that. He just wanted to, showing how much of a good person he truly is. Their relationship is beautiful 🥹
They are my favorite Ghibli couple.
Actually Haku’s got a huge reason to save Chihiro. According to an analysis by Tosho Okada, a Japanese producer, critic, journalist and UA-camr, Haku is Chihiro’s real elder brother who saved drowning Chihiro and instead got himself drowned in the river. That’s why Chihiro’s mother is not affectionate towards her. That’s how Haku became Kohaku river god even though he forgot who he really was. And that’s why they had to meet again at the bridge over the river. When we recalled that scene, we somehow get the subtle nuance that they are somehow not unfamiliar with each other. Huge respect to Miyazaki!
(English is my second language, I hope you can understand what I’m trying to say)
today feminists call that rape and creepy. We can't have ghibli men here in america because feminist have outlawed these attitudes and actions
@@CN-zi4gs it just a theory and been debunk. hes a kami a river god, just like totoro. its an interesting theory regardless
What I also like about Ghibli films is that good and 'evil' characters are not as prominent as Disney's where you clearly know who the good and bad guy is. When I first watched Princess Mononoke I thought Lady Eboshi was the evil villain but turns out she was a complex woman herself who helped the outcasts in society and modernize life with technology even if it meant destroying the environment and it was really interesting to see typically male virtues on a strong, truly independent woman. I personally do not want being a 'masculine' woman myself but the cool thing about Ghibli is that they can express complex feminine and masculine characters without villainizing what would typically be the misfits and out of the stereotype characters in a Disney film
Absolutely. It's one of my favourite things too. Nothing is black or white, everything's great and has nuance. Just like in real life!
Game of Thrones? Daenerys Targaryen? I don't even watch GoT, but I have to pushback on the notion that Japanese storytelling is somehow more complex or sophisticated than Western storytelling. Japan has two Disney parks. They love Elsa and Rapunzel over there. They also love Harry Potter.
We all have a part of femininity and masculinity in each of us. We simply have to find the balance between the two like yin and yang: there is always a little part of dark and light in goodness and evil to express that things are not what they are at first glance and that we must always look deeper to truly understand that nothing is easy and Manichean. That's why I prefer Ghibli characters to Disney characters: they are complex because they are not what they are when we see them for the first time. Judgement must be put aside to understand why the characters do what they do.
Disney has trouble with this concept. He who sees the world in a filter of good and evil, he tries to transcribe a world where there would exist on one side the good people and on the other, the most evil people. Where Ghibli doesn't hesitate to show you that no, reality is more complex than that, and that you shouldn't be afraid to face it head on. Princess Mononoke transcribes this very well with Ashitaka and the nature.
@aesop1451 it's not a contest..
@@aesop1451 Try to name a trait of Daenery's that isn't "strong and imperialistic." She lacked a personality, a tenable motivation, and vulnerabilities other than her own hubris, which is the standard cryptonite of boring characters.
I believe the reason Quasimodo is such an outlier characterization-wise is because the "source material" of hunchback of notre dam - notre dam de paris by viktor hugo - is very different than the other tales disney usually uses, so it already starts out with a far more complex character
That's a great point actually
You can tell Hunchback is very un-Disney source material. Clopin always stood out as a hold over, from that being a jester type character AND the leader of an in movie faction. No way would Disney think of that on their own. Leaders are heroic if good, menacing if bad. Silly characters are side characters, like the gargoyles, Timon and Pumba, and the Beast's servants.
The reality is that Disney did not understand the Hunchback story and twist everything upside down to transform the narrative from "nobody is a monster but everybody have deep flaws making them act monstruously" to "rich people are good and poor people are evils"
This isn’t a strong argument when you consider the Disney version of Quasimodo and the book version are completely different. And most Disney source materials are much darker before being changed significantly by the movies.
@@blueworldcomics7908 True, but darker/gorier doesn't equal more complex
Ghibli doesn’t tell romance stories, they tell love stories 💕
Truly 🥹
Like Treasure Planet, people always forget Atlantis is also Disney movie.
But it's such a banger
Titan A.E. too
Atlantis was also shamelessly copied from an actual anime series (Fushigi no Umi no Nadia). Its worth watching, tho its quite old.
@@SoloRenegade not Disney but Don Bluth film. That movie and Anastasia are so good. 👏
I think Kenai fits in the Disney character category, which breaks all molds because he is a flawed character who finds redemption by raising an orphan.
Oh my god good call. I honestly completely forget that brother bear is a Disney movie hahah, but you're absolutely right
Meet the Robinson’s is about an orphan, a flawed character whose obsession with invention hurts himself and his friend at first and his inability to move on from the past stops him from being able to seize a better future. Atlantis is about a brilliant guy whose grandfather raised him and he’s trying to redeem his name as he was mocked for trying to find Atlantis. Treasure planet is a boy who’s abandoned by his father trying to prove himself and become a man when he had no one to look up to for emulation as he tried to save the only family he has left after their inn is destroyed.
Twenty thousands leagues is also a great Disney film. People seem to appreciate anyhting that’s like anime or not American they praise it more and Disney gets dismissed but Disney created many breakthroughs and beautiful films. Ghibli didn’t pioneer animation in itself the way Disney did, they invented feature length animation and don’t seem to get any respect for that.
I liked spirited away and the music is nice in the films but I’m starting to sour on it. I’ve heard the creator hates America, though they’ve said he doesn’t like his own country either but regardless, and many keep pitting Disney against Ghibli like you’ve got to diss Disney to be new and hip and into Japanese stuff or whatever it is. It’s creating a bad taste. And it’s ironic as anime besides Ghibli has a bad relation mostly and most think of it as sort of sexual trite and kind of just dumb like big guns and half naked women and so on and hammy overacting and the fans as people who who have giant body pillows and are simps for other countries cultures but reject their own in a weird way. And yet you say that and they get defensive yet they’re oversimplifying and dissing Disney.
Yes it sucks now but Disney is iconic and pioneered a lot of stuff and had beautiful rich art and storytelling. Characters also don’t have to be tortured and complicated to be good. I’m kind of sick of the weebo weirdness like if your character isn’t androgynous and blank faced half the time they’re not cool and deep. Ghibli has nice stuff but there’s flaws very likely you can find there as well, and many would say if anyhting they’re kind of copping Disney’s whole thing just in a different way.
Ashitaka really had a chokehold in my childhood on what my type was.
Hahahaha I really cannot blame you 😂
Yeah, what I fully appreciated about his character was his stillness. Disney heroes are so loud and larger than life. Ashitaka is quiet, thoughtful and wise. He doesn't dominate his environment, he engages with it .
@@nixi7688that is until he is faced with real danger, either to himself or the people around him. Then he dispenses justice swiftly and effectively.
I SYMPATHIZE lol. being completely honest, he still is my type completely lol
Great video, Miguel! I appreciate how, at the end, you theorized the potential cause for such stark differences between how the the two studios portray male characters.
However, I think it’s a bad idea to “turn your brain off” during Disney movies. Now, unfortunately, a lot of recent Disney movies do kind of depend on you turning your brain off in order to enjoy them. But turning your brain off while watching movies like Aladdin, Tarzan, The Little Mermaid, and other renaissance movies means that you will probably miss many subtle clues and cues the characters/writers make that tell you about the characters’ personalities and their motivations. For example, Prince Eric choosing to help Ariel on the beach when she gets her legs shows you that he is willing to help someone EVEN THOUGH he doesn’t think that she is the girl that saved his life. He still personally makes sure that she is given everything she needs and he even makes her his guest at the palace because he wants what’s best for her. It’s a subtle way to tell you about his personality and his values that might be missed by the audience if they do “turn their brain off”.
You're absolutely right!! And I'm definitely not trying to say you SHOULD turn your brain off, just that some Disney movies are definitely meant for escapism and enjoyment rather than deep analysis. But both are good ways of taking them in imo :) Thanks for the support btw 🥹♥️
@@miguelmunuera2601 You’re very welcome!
With Disney character's being focused on their individual goals and accomplishments, and Ghibli's focus being on relationships, romantic, platonic, and social standing, I think it also shows the difference of Individualism vs Collectivism. Two sides to the same coin, the US is highly Individualistic while Japan is just as highly Collective in it's culture and you can see it in the stories told by both.
Yes! That's so damn true, it's ingrained in the culture too. Japan is way more focused on the collective
Looking back, despite not having anywhere near as many films as Disney, it's clear to me these days that Ghibli definitely had the "quality over quantity" approach :)
1000%. Ghibli definitely benefited from doing way less movies compared to Disney. That being said, Ghibli is also a miniscule company in terms of employee size, compared to Disney hahah
Eric has more to him than what’s explicitly stated. He shows humility, a love for animals, an appreciation for danger, a helpful and fantastic sailor, a desire for true connection. And I will die on this hill, Eric is awesome.
Hahah honestly I get where you're coming from. but he could be SO MUCH MORE fleshed out, that's what's a pity
@miguelmunuera2601 you could put more flesh on his bones. But why? It would just be padding as the first comment above illustrates we already know who he is in all the ways that matter.
well..thats definitely not what i'd call complex, its pretty standard. hes there to be the perfect prince, theres notmuch nuance to anything you described.
@@adamantiiispencespence4012 um..because hes literaly the character the main character falls in love with so yes, one could expect him to be more fleshed out.
Dude, the poor Ashitaka lost his tribe, his hair, this throne, his right to have heirs, go on exile, and he has like days from a very painful and merciless death. Ashitaka doesnt have time to find a girlfriend, and accidentaly he finds the most unique of them all...
Ghibli has a fragrancy of storytelling, a subtle perfum called "a piece of my soul", you do never know what is behind or in front of this characters, as we, watchers and listeners of this tales, dont know what our lives will be tomorrow...
Damn...beautifully said 😳😳
I love both styles. Disney feels fantastical and something I can dream about, while Ghibli feels realistic and calming. To me at least. It's all about the styles to writing characters.
Described perfectly!! We can all use some fantastical beauty in our life, as well as some calming realism
whisper of the heart mentioned!!!! ahhh it's my favorite movie and i love seiji and shizuku's relationship SO MUCH
Their relationship is GOALSSSS
Saammee! When I watched that for the first time, I was in cloud nine! I hope I can remove that memory so that I can watch it again.
as someone who’s never watched a ghibli film, this video actually made me wanna watch them. great video by the way
That's awesome! That was exactly my objective :) let me know if you check one of them out
I’m so glad you do cuz they’re such good movies
You won't regret watching them. Honestly there's no way to communicate how interesting the characters are, despite the slower pacing and introspection. The worldbuilding usually makes every still moment worth it.
Disney films are predictable, but Ghibli always surprises and moves me in ways I can't describe. The virtue displayed alongside the darker parts of humanity (war, pollution, etc) is inspiring. The issues they deal with are so grounded, relying on the character's choice to grow and move forward, as opposed to the childish plots of Disney, which rely on grand events and opportunities and obvious villains.
I suppose the best way to sum it up is that Ghibli movies are more intimate. Almost like a meditation rather than a distraction. They bring me a lot of peace, but by no means are they not exciting.
Shame on you for never seen. Ghibli movie
Disney's male characters are more memorable than Ghibli's (mostly because of the Disney brand itself), but Ghibli's male characters are more realized
I get that point honestly
Japanese-to-English video game translator here. Great video. Also you nailed the pronunciation for 起承転結 👍
Damn I'm so glad 🥹 thanks for letting me know!
Perfectly explained at the end. Thank you! The story telling between the two studios are down their cultures. Yes Disney has evolved much. Both for the male and female genders. Instead of the typical three stages storyline. Studio Ghibli goes through four stages.
My favorite Disney films aren’t necessarily male driven but develops male role models to have personal depth and growth. Sword in the Stone and Aladdin. Studio Ghibli I love many films. The genders roles are shared 50/50 in addition it is realistic representing life. Life isn’t about fairytale and happily ever after.
With that thank you for the wonderful content! Hope you had a wonderful holiday and Happy New Year!!
Oh my god thank you!!! You really didn't have to but I appreciate the donation so much 🥹 You're the best! And yeah I totally agree with you
Happy New Year, I hope you're having amazing holidays :)
In Porco Rosso, it’s quite the opposite. We can see trough all the movie the evolution of Marco who is at the begining of the movie, an ancient pilot of the war who is traumatized by the lost of his comrades and thinks that he has a duty for get back his honor. But when he meet Fio, a young girl passionated about aviation that support him, he change gradually.
I thinks that Porco Rosso is very underrated among the Ghibli’s movie, it has great characters and a good story but I don’t see that much of people talking about it.
Anyway, great video !
It really is so underrated!! When people talk about ghibli I feel like they barely ever mention Porco Rosso but it's so good. For the development but also for just the vibe of the movie too
Honestly, I love both Disney and Ghibli male characters. Howl is equally as interesting as Kuzco and Aladdin.
However, I think it's a little unfair to compare Hercules or Aladdin to Howl or Haku. While the latter examples play a crucial part in their stories, they aren't the main character. They are deuteragonists. While they are major players, part of their main function is to still support and assist the main character. Of course they are "gonna operate in the background and support the complex narrative", that's literally their function in the story. That's like saying that Vegeta is a better character than Goku, because he supports others in battles while being a conflicted tsundere about it over Goku who steals the spotlight. Like...yeah, that's his whole purpose as a character. Instead, I think male protagonists like Porco Rosso, Seita and Sosuke would be better examples for a comparison to the Disney male protagonists. Those are undoubtedly the protagonists of their stories.
Plus, I don't think Kuzco is in the same camp as someone like Jim Hawkins. Kuzco starts off the story as an arrogant and self absorbed asshole. He gets turned into a common pack animal is forced to face on his flaws face on, and becomes a better person over time. Jim is a troubled teenager, who is dealing with abandonment issues after his father walked out on him. He bonds with John Silver. He learns to open up again. Kuzco seems much closer to someone like Howl than Jim. Jim Hawkins is more like Aladdin than anyone else.
Yeah definitely great points. And most of what I mention is also relevant for Pazu, Porco and others. Also, Ashitaka is a great example of a protagonist that is also very much supportive of San and her endeavor. I definitely get what you're saying though with some of the comparisons. (I love Aladdin but for me Howl takes the cake regardless hahah)
Interesting take on Kuzco v Jim. It's funny cause I kind of feel like Jim is actually more like Howl than Kuzco. Howl isn't inherently an asshole at first, he simply has issues and slowly learns to open up and accept his flaws, kind of like Jim. What do you think? :)
Dreamworks males are pretty interesting.
Shrek trying to save the day? No!
He wants his swamp back
Does Hiccup have super powers?
No! He has his wits, intelligence, strong empathy and his sarcasm😂
Spirit?
Wants to get back to his family.
Pixar is a lot more nuanced to
Ahahah "he wants his swamp back" killed me
Something I like about Eastern storytelling is that not everything has to be a battle.
Seldom things are in fact, there aren't that many battles in Ghibli. That being said though anime has a fuck ton of them
Making the world a better place often starts with an internal change.
Couldn't be more true
Princess Mononoke is by far my favorite Ghibli movie! Ashitaka has a very strong (but loving) chokehold on me, I love him very much
Hahah I can't blame ya
the differences between storytelling is rlly interesting :o I'd love to know more abt that
It's actually so interesting. I might have to do a deep dive on it 👀👀
@@miguelmunuera2601 yes please
Hayao Miyazaki is called the Living Walt Disney of Japan.
He is his own Master.
@@tic857 even after American cartoons and comics became more popular than animanga, I still think he deserved that award over spiderverse
I wouldn't even compare him to Walt tbh, he's his own legend
@@miguelmunuera2601he has surpassed Disney
What's your favorite Ghibli movie
Mine is either princess Monoke or Nausica valley of the wind
@@miguelmunuera2601he is more good than walt disney
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with either Disney’s or Ghibli’s style of character writing, they’re just different styles of writing. It can still be really impactful, whether intricately complex or nicely simple.
Exactly that's my point :)
11:35 How DARE you show Grave of the Fireflies when talking about how complex characters and stories can leave a mark. I'm still not over that movie 20 years later after watching it for the first time. A perfect example yes, but It's traumatizing man! XD
HAHAHA I'm so sorry. We all have PTSD from that movie istg 😂
You forgot to say that while Ashitaka and Haku are Studio Ghibli/Miyazaki's original characters, Howl isn't. Howl's Moving Castle was adapted from a novel with the same name written by a British author. Howl's Moving Castle has Western sensibilities with bolder characters, like Howl, a parallel with Flynn Rider's character in Disney. While characters like Haku and Ashitaka are more naturalistic, more like a real person, more introspective, admiring nature (the concept of wabi sabi: appreciating nature's beauty that is imperfect and impermanent) as well as their interactions with people that can be both high stakes or mundane. Western animation seems more to be about spectular events or characters (otherwise in the Western person's mind why bother to animate) while Japan combines both the dynamic, always moving nature of the West with the more meditative, contemplative, introspective nature of the East, resulting in something I would call "best cultural mix, Best of both worlds" that's why Ghibli movies seem more special, they have that "je ne sais quoi" that Western animated movies (especially American ones, especially Disney) don't usually have.
You're absolutely right!! Beautifully explained honestly
@@miguelmunuera2601 Thank you.
I find so interesting these comparisons between Disney and Ghibli animations. Like, I prefer Ghibli, but I also love Disney's animations, they both have their strengths and studying it is so rich.
1000%!! That's what's so beautiful, I love analysing the differences cause I love them both sm
In my opinion, the biggest comparison of Japanese and Hollywood story telling is a movie called “Kikujiro’s summer”. It’s a movie that if you are used to Hollywood you’ll feel the pacing is slow to a crawl but it’s a great movie. It’s like a movie that felt like 90% of the time it’s not doing anything with the main plot, but actually is, just very very subtle. But all that “white space” is serving a purpose.
Ooo that sounds so interesting, I really wanna watch it now
For your information Tarzan was written over 100 years ago and the Tarzan in the books is more complex then the Disney version. Joe Lara's tv series portrayed him best in this regard. He is intelligent, taught himself to read and fight, and is a skilled polyglot.
Yeah unfortunately the adaptations that Disney does of many of these stories end up losing the depth that they originally had
Lots of Disney movies are based off of classic stories that they sugar coated them.
Hercules and Aladdin are some of my favorite animated heroes. Their roles as characters and even the overall point of their films are different from Ghibli characters.
That's very true. I love both of them too tbh :)
It's hard to say that one is better or worse than the other, because how do you quantify what makes a story better than another story?
I think they both have their pros and cons- disney stories tend to be simpler to understand and are easier for kids to follow along with. Its easier to pick out whos "good" and whos "bad." The downside is that the plots tend to mimic each other and can become predictable and even a bit boring.
Ghiblis strengths are that all of the characters tend to have a lot of depth and are really compelling, but these finer details are overlooked by a younger audience. The level of thoughtful detail makes Ghibli movies incredibly rewatchable, as you continue to recognize and learn new details, and even interpret them differently over the years.
Disney storytelling tends to be much more definitive versus Ghiblis subjectivity. Disney likes to tell you what's good and what's bad, whereas Ghibli just tells you things as they are and lets you decide how to feel. I think both are fine in terms of storytelling, it mostly depends on what story you want to tell and how you want the audience to feel.
Honestly so well said. I completely agree, and it's partly what I mention in my video. They just serve different purposes and have their own pros and cons.
Disney characters are like a carefully prepared gourmet meal, formulated and exact. Ghibli charcaters are like the nostalgic childhood dish your granma always make you, irreplacable and non-replicable.
Beautiful analogy!
Top notch analysis!
Loved the deep dive at the end into the root cause 👍
I really loved writing that part the most. Might have to make a whole video about it 🥹
I resonate more with ghibli because they can show that a story with a male n a female protagonists doesnt always need to end up/to be about romance at all, but respecting n supporting each other as fellow human beings. Even when there is romance (like whisper of the hearts n the wind rises), romance isnt being exploited too much, n lean more towards how each pursue their goal/dream before supporting each other as humanely as possible after their path crossed.
Definitely :)
Hercules, Aladdin, The Beast, Simba, Mowgli, … all the classic male characters - were all very real to me.
But now the modern Disney movies feel so fake to me.
There's such a beautiful charm in some of the Renaissance Disney characters. Even Tiana I loved sm
This is why there are hardly any good role models for boys these days.
The Hunchback of Notre Dame is such a unique Disney film in general! It is without a doubt the most underrated Disney movie ever made, the thing is a master piece beyond all the other Disney movies and the Ghibli movies.
It really is heavily underrated. Very few people talk about the hunchback of Notre Dame. At least not as many as should be the case
Which is more real, Ghibli's or Disney's characters?
Idk, man. Real deople don't even feel real.
Hahahaha never been truer
I think we can agree tho, everyone needs a mushu to help them 🐉
Yeah I don't think anyone can disagree with that 😂😂 Mushu for life
Great video dude! I've actually never watched a Ghibli movie, but now I'm inspired to try one out!
Thanks so much :) and trust me check one out!! You'll love them I promise
Nailed the characters once again. My thoughts in the relationship in Ghibli is that they often feel they can go either way. Like if they seem like a good match that don't get together at the end, they could either get together later on or just remain friends. Whenever I watch a Ghibli movie, I often think 'Oh these two would be good together but they're also really good friends. Either way their relationship go is fine by me.' Disney take notes! These are the kind of characters we want to see.
Exactly!! Because it's kinda like real life...sometimes we meet amazing people that would be great as friends or as partners and it just develops naturally
Your analysis beautifully captures the nuanced differences between Studio Ghibli and Disney. It’s clear that both styles have unique strengths, shaped by cultural contexts, creative philosophies, and business imperatives.
Studio Ghibli’s approach often feels deeply personal, philosophical, and grounded in human nature. Its focus on quiet moments and natural beauty reflects a desire to immerse the audience in the world, allowing for introspection and subtle emotional resonance. This contrasts with Disney’s tendency toward grandiosity, humor, and spectacle, designed to transport and entertain in a more overtly structured way. The difference isn’t necessarily in quality but in intention and delivery.
Ghibli’s ability to respect its audience, regardless of age, and tackle complex themes without condescension is a testament to Miyazaki’s and his team’s artistry. Their characters, both male and female, often embody a quiet strength and authenticity that resonate deeply, even in fantastical settings. This approach creates a sense of timelessness and relatability, reflecting life’s beauty and challenges in a profound yet understated manner.
On the other hand, Disney’s evolution over decades has seen shifts in storytelling priorities, balancing heartfelt narratives with the demands of being a commercial giant. While this has led to some formulaic tendencies, Disney’s historical works have indeed portrayed vulnerability and sincerity in their characters, capturing moments of genuine humanity amidst their grander adventures.
The comparison isn’t about which is better but about appreciating the unique storytelling lenses each studio offers. Ghibli feels like a reflective walk through a serene forest, while Disney often feels like a dazzling fireworks display. Both are beautiful in their own ways, offering complementary experiences rather than competing ones.
Amazing comment 🥹
There was no mention of the beast? He has the most interesting character arc and growth.
I love the men of both studios though
I should've mentioned him 🤦🏻♂️ he's so complex too, the way he hides so much of his genuine care and affection behind his beastly facade
It is pretty beastly to kidnap an old man, and then imprison his daughter 😂
@@bestduelistever2374 😂😂😂
@@bestduelistever2374He doesn’t technically kidnap the old man, he arrests a trespasser. And also in the source material the old man violated hospitality rules by stealing a rose from the beast’s garden.
The beast feels very ghibli in essence
So, it seems writing a good character is simply writing a person, probably not really caring about gender at first. Get the basic character traits and their relationship to the people and environment around them. That's my best educated guess, anyway.
Yup exactly. Unfortunately most writers don't do that
Good job. Maybe the above is the reason why Miyazaki's movie make me emotional even years after watching them, while Pixar and Disney's in general are fun but I rarely care enough to watch them again.
Very well could be. And thank you :)
This video highlights what should remain unchanged at Disney and how Ghibli's focus on emotional connections could have benefited Disney. While I appreciate Disney's male heroes, replacing them with female ones creates imbalance and doesn't solve anything.
The issue isn't whether they're male or female imo, it's how they write characters in general.
What a BRILLIANT video essay! Thank you for making and sharing it, and personally I look forward to what's next from you!~
Thank you so much 🥹 really glad you enjoyed it! Don't worry there's way more to come
Its not just their deeds but i also think the time period, because Ghibli more takes place in ur time while disney mostely takes place in the middle age (except tiana).
That's a good point actually! I mean their movies take place in very different time periods but yeah I hadn't taken that into account
Very good explanation! I like how you mentioned the culture differences. I love how Studio Ghibli portrays their male (and female) characters, especially in contrast to Disney. I have been talking a lot about this to some people I know, but somehow, they are very much less enthusiastic than I am lol! It is great to see that there are many others who appreciate it as well!
Thank you so much! :)
I think that’s why I’ve always like shonen anime, it’s kind of a mixture of both east and west story telling, strong male protagonist, hero’s journey, action, but it still has a lot of that Japanese introspective character development
100%
Astrid Lindgren was a master of this. not only in portraying real people, and real life, but real children. Something i think is really uncommon. And not just real children in their personality, but in their problems, their life, what they think about and how they react to things.
Wow I'm actually not familiar with her work..gonna go into a Wikipedia deep dive rn
@@miguelmunuera2601 You've probably at least heard of Pippi Longstocking, though that's just the tip of the iceberg with her.
I’d like to add Tove Jansson too! Both Astrid and Tove really mastered the sombre tone and fleeting feeling of childhood that we also see in many Ghibli movies. I think the Scandinavian sensibilities work really well with the japanese - so it’s no wonder that it was a japanese studio that animated Tove’s beloved stories about Moomin, and that studio Ghibli animated Astrid Lindgren’s story about Ronja the Robber’s Daughter :)
Meanwhile Ghibi female characters: "How are we going to copy Nausicaa but change her up a bit this time?"
Nah come on Sophie, Chihiro or Kiki are legitimately nothing like Nausicaa imo😂
I'm not sure if the cultural difference is really a valid argument. The hero journey might not be the style used by Ghibli but when we see all the anime and shonen coming from Japan we see that this type of storytelling is very popular in japanese culture as well.
Nice video, I recommend you an old animation movie that I think you might like (if you haven't watched it already): The Last Unicorn
Thats true, but that's also what sets Ghibli apart. I do think that in general though eastern storytelling (apart from anime) is much less focused on the hero's journey than the west. Ooo interesting recommendation, just added it to my watch list!
Notice you only use masculine characters from Disney from 20+ years ago. Says something about the state of how men are portrayed by the mouse today.
That was my point, their male characters have definitely evolved over time. Ralph is way more complex than someone like Prince Eric for example
A big issue I have with current Disney male leads are that they're following the Hollywood cliche of the stoic, egotistical, jaded, and/or selfish man, ie Naveen, Flynn, Nick (though his actually played a role in the story), and Maui. Hiro and Kristoff are the main exceptions lately.
And slight segue, but I really wish Disney would make more male-led musicals; we haven't had any since the 90s, and Disney often prioritizes female leads in musicals and otherwise.
That's true. It'd be cool to see a male led musical next since we've gotten Moana Encanto and Frozen recently :)
@miguelmunuera2601 Sadly, it's all tied to the merchandise. For Disney, female leads are more marketable than male ones. I praise Disney for having more female leads that any other animation film company, but as a male Disney fan, I do wish they had more male leads lately. "Strange World" was a neat idea to have a male lead and an adult lead vs a young adult, but Searcher's movie was pretty awful--then again, almost every Disney film since "Frozen 2" has had production issues.
@@OpticalSorcerer
also, Disney kinda sabotage some of their own movies with male leads (ahem Treasure Planet with Jim Hawkins and Atlantis with Milo)😅
@@queenberuthiel5469 How did Disney sabotage them?
@@OpticalSorcerer
That's why I said "kinda." I am just thinking that maybe they kinda sabotage those films but yeah, those are just fan theories and speculations that I've heard.
Ghibli, while the story can be whistful, the characters are grounded. And right now, I think thats what we need
As a society?
Classic DC vs Classic Marvel, basically. Aspirational vs Inspirational.
We want to be a Disney Hero, but we're probably more like a Ghibli Hero.
No wonder why American cartoons and comics have become more popular than animanga, Humanity has always wanted aspirational heroes while relatable heroes are somewhat recent. (In comparison)
@RWR785 Are you being sarcastic? The last I heard it was the other way around. Maybe not overseas, but at least in America.
@@ManFromThePits in America a single comic sold more than half of all manga. One comic. (Bones) I’m not from America so I don’t know how popular comics are other than sales but in countries like Australia comics and cartoons are decimating manga
@RWR785 Really? I mean, the old-time classic comics (like Superman's first appearance) can sell for hundreds of thousands, even millions. But modern comics are dying on the shelves, rarely lasting more than a few issues.
Maybe it's those high-value comics from the 40's that are skewing the sales? Basically anything before 2005 is popular, and everything else gets ignored.
Meanwhile, everyone seems to be latching onto Manga as an alternative. There's a real upheaval going on here. At least that's what I hear.
@@ManFromThePits don’t let this distract you from the fact rent a girlfriend got season 3 before spectacular spider-man. I like new gen anime but old gen cartoons just hit that spot. (Arcane and spiderverse carry new gen cartoons and it’s not even close)
as much as i love disney men i mean some i love ghibi men they hit so different ghibi is the master of heart felt and soft that what makes me love ghibi stories
Ghibli men are iconic
@@miguelmunuera2601 real
I just want to say I really liked the video and appreciate the thoughts and opinions on the subject and how you presented it…❤
Thank you so much 🥹 that means a ton to me
I think some of it might be the musical numbers. Disney movies spend a lot of their run time on music, while Ghibli uses that run time on character development and silence. Japan also has the concept of the wagoto protagonist. Or a softer more realistic character whose goals usually revolve around something a bit more realistic, as a contrast to the aragoto protagonists who are the more typical hero archetype.
Great point. The musical numbers definitely give you less time to focus on character and story but at the same time they elevate some of Disney's movies into the upper echelon of animation. There's very little that's better than a great Disney song
AMC my local chain has Ghibli Fest where they rerelease Ghibli films for a night or two, and I love them. I’ve watched some and I’ve re fallen in love with their work, and they are always have people in them. My brother and I are often the only people in other movies. Why I love them you can so clearly see these characters having lives after the credits. You know you are witnessing only a page or two in their lives. Disney gives you the full book so to speak.
That sounds so nice 😍 I wish they had something similar where I live. But you're right, it definitely feels like you're just getting a few pages of the characters book
I like Disney ones more, they are big and strong
Hahahah fair enough
I would like to argue that Eric goes through a sort of character arch. Through the movie, we see him seeking this mystical idea of ‘the woman who saved him’ and while we, as the audience, know that this happened (and that this woman is our protagonist), nobody else, including him, is sure. He’s just chasing a person he doesn’t know even exists, and he’s so fixated in her he’s willing to reject any type of romance for her (Which is cool and all, but slightly worrisome in real life).
And then he meets Ariel, and he likes her, he really likes her. But he’s still attached to the mysterious woman, so, for the first days, Eric rejects any form of advancements coming from Ariel. At first. But then, as the movie progresses we see them coming closer until he falls for Ariel.
And we see this in the scene before he gets brainwashed by Ursula, in a cliff side, as he’s pondering for his love for both girls. For most of the movie, Eric’s attachment to the mystery woman is represented by the melody that Ariel sings. At the mentioned scene, he’s playing that same melody with his flute. And then he throws the flute to the ocean. Because he knows who he’s chosen. (Not gonna lie, one of my favorite pieces of visual symbolism).
Of course, when he finds out the mystery woman is Ariel, he’s surprised and excited, but it’s feels more like a bonus for himself, rather than “oh so that person was u all along, guess I now like u lol” (that was also after literally getting brainwashed and almost forced to marry someone, so I’ll let it pass).
In conclusion, Eric did have a character arch, it’s just more subtle, which in itself works within the film.
This is a really good point! His arc is definitely subtle but you're right that it's there
It certainly varies from case to case and based on personal experience, but I am of the opinion that some of the most interesting Disney characters are precisely the secondary ones (or the supporting ones): Silver is the first example that comes to mind, because it differs in part from the original model, taking some characteristics from a Rai adaptation of the 80s, Treasure Island in Outer Space (there Silver was played by Anthony Quinn, by the way).
But another example that comes to mind is Kerchak: I don't know if I've already said it under another video of this channel (if so, I apologize, Miguel😅), but Kerchak makes up for the minor development that we see in the character of Tarzan. If the latter remains fundamentally consistent with himself throughout the film, the gorilla begins his journey with the loss of his biological son and the awareness that Tarzan's adoption by Kala is nothing more than a palliative.
"Okay, he can stay."
"Kerchak, I know he'll be a good son.."
"I said he can stay. That doesn't make him my son."
Later, however - and I would say almost unconsciously - Kerchak intervenes against Sabor to protect Tarzan as well, until the latter proves his worth against the leopard. And it is particularly indicative that, to date, Kerchak is perhaps the only father in Disney filmography to die to protect his son (up until that point, the only father whose death we knew during the film was Cinderella's).
I do agree, however, that in both productions - Ghibli and Disney - there are examples to keep in mind, as far as the male characters are concerned: speaking of the protagonists, Quasimodo is certainly the one who immediately catches the eye, also because of the changes that occurred in the transition from Hugo's novel to the animated transposition...just look at the scene of Quasi's hesitation in warning Clopin and his friends of Frollo's arrival. Quasimodo is faced with the choice of whether to act for the good of others - at the expense of his own selfishness - or to give in to his first impulse of jealousy towards Phoebus and Esmeralda.
I'll say a word about the princes: if Naveem is perhaps the prince of actual royal blood who comes closest to having a satisfying narrative arc and understanding that there are other things in life (thanks to the journey he takes with Tiana), I have to say that Philip (just to not bring up Eric, since I've seen other comments mention it) would have had good potential as a prince outside the canons. He would have a good personality - a little sarcastic towards his horse, but also ironic towards Aurora - and he even has some funny lines... unfortunately, whether it's the length, or the narrative scheme followed (which gives much more personality to Maleficent and the three good fairies) it doesn't stand out as it should... but I think that some seeds planted in that film have borne fruit for characters like Aladdin or Flynn.
I LOVED reading through this comment. I actually hadn't thought about Kerchak but he's such an interesting character in Tarzan, and obviously Captain Silver is too. Really loved your breakdown of some of these :) thanks for it!
@miguelmunuera2601 thanks to you!🍻
This video is like
* Thing *: 😐🥱😑
* Japanese Thing*: 🫨😁🥰😍🤩😱
Genuinely how it feels...
Hahah it's not because it's japanese that I like it 😂😂 that's what I explain in the vid :)
All Ghibli characters : 🥰 All Disney characters : 🤔
😂😂 not wrong
It's interesting, that you didn't mention Mahito from the boy and the heron. Every other movie shown (maybe except of Porco Rosso) has also a main female protagonist in the Ghibli movies.
I'm interested in your opinion about Mahito as the only male main protagonist. 🙂
Honestly I completely forgot about Mahito just because of how recent the movie is hahah. I also think what I mentioned applies though, Mahito is SO pensive, determined, somewhat reserved and has so many moments of quiet and character development. Really love Mahito
2:51 Maximus really 😏
Hahahah
Life isn't a problem to solve but a process to experience: Jamis
love it
Really need to start watching more Ghibli movies in 2025. Great video Miguel 👍🏻
You really do omg, just trust me it'll be amazing
Excellent video!
Thank you! :)
It's just different genres and different target audiences, naturally the characters will be different.
True
Very, very well done video. You have a great eye for analysis and catching those character details that can easily go unnoticed. Subscribed! Keep it up
Thanks so much! ♥️
I always thought that US (Disney's also but not uniquely) male characters are essentially walking psychological issues.
Hahahaha damn fair enough
This is such a great vid thank you! Ive always thought why i never really got into movies su h marvel and stuff. Ive always loved ghibli and anime in general
Ive always found myself looking for introspection, inner growth and the complexities of human behaviours.
Thank toy this is amazing
I'm so glad you enjoyed it that much 🥹♥️
Can one say... more relatable.
1000%
Great essay. I think we are really having a conversation about what it means to be a man: Is masculinity just this larger-than-life facade and success, or is it something deeper? I think anime, in general, has a lot to teach Western audiences about how to be adult men.
1000%, that's the conversation we gotta have
Does anime have a lot to teach Western audiences about how to be adult women? See how goofy that sounds? How disrespectful and dehumanizing? No?
I think there are a few male Disney heroes that get overlooked (most of them from the old days)... Pinocchio, Mr. Toad, Winnie the Pooh, and Basil. Pinocchio is literally a poor kid thrust into a harsh, corrupt world and having to try to maintain a moral core when the odds are completely against him. Mr. Toad is an eccentric who is constantly getting into trouble with his manic pursuits. Winnie the Pooh is a chill guy vibing with his friends and basically taking life at a slow, easy pace. Basil is a crack detective who is very full of himself, and, while he wants to do good and solve the case, he's in it just as much for the fun (and besting his rival, who's also the main villain). Basil and Ratigan are very much mirrors of each other, and Basil himself is quite devious and even a little unhinged for your average Disney hero. Lots of Disney analysis these days seems to focus on the modern (Renaissance and onwards) stuff, when I genuinely think that the studio's best output was actually made when Walt was in charge. There's lots of sophistication and subtext to those older films. I highly recommend you watch a video called "The Artist vs. the Machine" for more information on that topic. Needless to say, modern Disney doesn't have the balls to make something like Education for Death.
Also, if you want an example of Western animation tackling deeper themes and more unconventional storytelling with characters that feel less like archetypes and more like, well, people, check out Don Bluth's work, specifically his first four films (The Secret of NIMH, An American Tail, The Land Before Time, and All Dogs Go to Heaven). His films are among the most hardcore G films ever made. Another example (sort of Disney, sort of not) is The Brave Little Toaster.
Im aorry, but anyone thinking ashitaka is somehow realistic is a liar. He was the same kind of sweet bean, self sacrificing, overly dedicated man that all disney men are.
Nah I disagree tbh. He's incredibly compassionate, dedicated to his cause, selfless but also vulnerable
@miguelmunuera2601 that's my point. Most people, in general, are not like that. The more realistic men are always the background characters. In both disney and in ghibli
Walt Disney and Hayao Miyazaki are iconic animators Disney and Studio Ghibli created amazing characters who touch the soul of millions
Absolutely!! And they both deserve a ton of respect
Completely True
This was good! Would love to see your take on Avatar: The Last Airbender, considering its a western story on the asian values of balance and harmony, personified with the character of Aang and how this may be complicated with the follow-up series, The Legend of Korra. I just discovered your channel, so I don't know if you've already done this.
I haven't but honestly would LOVE to do a breakdown on Avatar. That being said there are already so many breakdowns on the topic that I would have to think of a different angle
I think it's a bit unfair to compare Ghibli characters to most Disney princes because Ghibli focuses mainly on humanity (in the most general way), while those kind of Disney movies focus mostly on highlighting princesses (with a few exceptions like Pinocchio, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, the Beast etc)...Pixar on the other hand, I feel like that's more of a fair comparison when it comes to male leads not just with Ralph, but with Carl and Russel in UP, Linguini in Ratatuille, Andy in Toy Story and many other male leads if they were people instead of monsters, cars, fishes or rats lol
I totally get where you're coming from and it's a great point, maybe I need to make a Pixar v Ghibli comp :)
i absolutely love studio ghibli's work
they might have changed my life a little
Same 🥹
After watching bunch of Ghibli movies, I think most of the male characters seems unique bcs it written with different purpose. Miyazaki always put his own touch to his characters. He tried to show that male character of his have complex emotional struggle inside them. Like coming of age movie. Which this archetype usually used a lot for FL or other female character.
Yeah they're all definitely very unique in their own way
I'm surprise that you didn't mentioned Stitch, he isn't human but don't really fit any specific character archetype and is relativly complex. It seems that Disney tend to creat more human character those recent years with Encanto being about a familly conflict rather than an epic quest, or Maoi who is more complexe than simply an archetype and could be seen as the actual antagonist since he is the one that stole the goddess' heart even if he isn't evil. But with people complaining that "Disney is dead" they may retrun to the more cliche formula.
I LOVE stitch. But yeah with him being an alien it was hard to categorize him hahaha but I love him and you're right he deserved a mention 100%
Of course I watched all the Disney classics in my youth, but today I definetly prefere Ghibli. Didn't watch any new Disney Animation in years.
The past 15 years has been rough for Disney..
Growing up, I was obsessed with ghibli movies! whenever I wanted to watch a movie, I'd ask for ponyo, spirited away, or howls moving castle the most.
They're all so great 😍
I was having a discussion with a peer about Ghibli vs Disney. And we came to the verdict that Disney movies feel like theme parks, and Ghibli feels more human.
@@stagelinedpro this is a superficial statement in so many ways
And sometimes we want to ride the roller coaster hahah
This video just randomly popped up on my "suggested" list, and buddy, you just got yourself another subscriber. (I am an English teacher/new writer working on a retelling of some of the more obscure Grimm Fairytales, and this video gave me a lot of good stuff to think about. I can't wait to watch the rest of your work!)
Thank you so much 🥹 I appreciate it a ton. Also SO COOL that you're working on retelling some of the Grimm Fairytales, that's honestly a great idea
Your wrong Disney are more memorable because they are aspirational and iconic , ghibli is more less popular because they are relatable and not as marketed or hyped up, if a character does not take center stage then they are not the “main main character”
many people recognize Disney male characters more because they are made to impress. But to say they are less memorable is very wrong. Most kids in my generation recognize Disney and remember Disney characters more than ghibli because ghibli is more for adults . Ghibli characters are not made to impress .the more relatable the character is the more slice of life feeling the more they fade into the background. They don’t spark the same excitement but more reminiscent of sentiments that sometimes people want to forget because it’s sad . Disney is made more for kids and ghibli more for adults
While Asitaka is well-written, he appears as good male friend, but not someone to commit, while Hercules is husband material guy, who is trustworthy.
Damn 😂 idk I'd say Ashitaka is just as much husband material as Hercules hahah
Lol I prefer Ashitaka far more. He is nothing less husband material. Ashitaka is not less trustworthy at all.
The best part about Ghibli's Animation is you can rewatch every one of these Movies and find something new, something subtle, something you didn't notice the first time you watched it.
I loved to watch both Disney and Ghibli during my childhood, but the values Ghibli portrayed is more in tune with my own values today.
Yeah I get that
Out of the characters you show I like treasure planet more than I do Hercules
Mmh honestly I might say the same
Well hercules was made to be jerk both before and after he became a 'hero' so i never understood his appeal myself either. Personally I loved Hades voiced by James Woods.
11:35 -- it's amazing how little it takes to make me cry....
Hahaha I get it honestly I get emotional easily too 🥹
Honestly, the most important point is. Disneys heroes are not even meant to feel real.
true!
I love that distinction with Ghibli characters: they’re not trying to win necessarily, they’re trying to find balance
Especially because so much of masculinity here in the states is about winning/defeating others
Mhhmmm