It's stated in Life After Nemesis that the reason why Alton Towers decided to retrack Nemesis instead of replacing it is because it was still the the most popular rides in the park, which makes me wonder, will B&M ever make another "old school" coaster, seeing as one can beat out much more modern ride technology when it comes to GP opinion.
@@coasterpostIt's pretty shaky. Can be ride ruining in the wrong seat, though it's usually bearable. But it's absolutely unacceptable for a brand-new coaster
I’d say the zero-G rolls on newer inverts are shaped like the floaty camelbacks that B&M are the master of, but inverted at the top, whereas the old school zero-G rolls are like inverted speed hills 🤔
Around 1998, B&M switched from using Stengel gmbh for all their track smoothing and centrelining to doing some of it internally. So for new projects opening from about 2000 onwards, B&M used this change to lower their whip. Over time it feels like b&m very gradually lost more and more of their whip as they realised the GP didn't appreciate it or found it rough.
Immediately after hearing the “jerk” definition explained, I paused the video for 2 minutes and then realized it is like changing the time it takes to go from 0 to 5 gees in FVD. There is more of a visible jolt on screen whenever you decrease the time between accelerations (or from linear to cubic), and vice versa. God bless FVD.
It's not just B&M either - it's an industry-wide trend. Compare Intamins like Storm Runner or Maverick to Pantheon or Velocicoaster. You'll notice the same trend. In the 90s and early 2000s I sense that the track elements had localized "zero datums" at the top and/or bottom: spots where the track was "unbanked" either fully upside down or fully level and momentarily zeroed in pitch and yaw as well. This would've significantly simplified the math in the simulation and design stage of the ride - and made manufacturing and assembly easier by giving clear reference points the iron workers could slap a regular ol' level on and see if it was "square". As computer design has become more sophisticated and things can be calculated more accurately in a 3D environment it seems that these points to have been "blended in" to the elements - removing the abrupt changes in radius and thereby the jerk that came with them. On the manufacturing end CNC machining and laser verification can ensure that the designed profile is achieved 'exactly' (down to some thousands anyway) - even while bending the track in multiple axes through 3D space in continuously changing radii without a true "zero" reference. On the assembly end we have construction lasers and range-finders now that would allow reference points to be verified far more accurately to some verified point on the ground - you don't need a "zero" at the top or bottom of elements on the ride anymore. But I do think B&M really led the way on this - for better or worse. At some point in the late 90s/early 00s they brought their final profiling and forces in-house (away from Stengel) - and that's when you notice the first "softening of the edges" as it were. I think most other manufacturers had the attitude that "it's a thrill ride - so it should jerk you around a little. It should feel a little unpredictable and unhinged", but B&M really wanted their rides to be graceful. I think we might be reaching a point (with rides like Steel Curtain) where the lack of jerk is starting the hurt the experience such that manufacturers are trying to sprinkle it in a little bit - like that last hill on Orion for example. Great work on this video!
I love these deep dives on commonly discussed though rarely expanded upon coaster topics. Though I must say, that switch from Imperial to Metric at 10:00 gave me more whiplash than a Batman: The Ride Clone 😂. Another great video!
from an operation standpoint, they are so vastly different! the one i operate doesnt even have minimum verify for restraints which was a shocker to me haha
If you would have asked one of the "old school "ACErs" (0:16). They probably would have told you "old school" B&Ms are the early ones designed by Werner Stengel's firm, Ing.-Büro Stengel GmbH. Seems B&M started staying in house around the time of Stengel's retirement which was 2001and by 2004 B&M was self performing all their engineering and design work.
I feel like you could have honestly done a difference between old Hulk and retrack Hulk. I feel like pre2006 Hulk had stronger air and the second half was faster and forceful.
Gonna disagree on getting accurate force recordings. There’s variables but if it’s orientation to you doesn’t change and there’s no room for it to jiggle around then it is accurate. I’ve compared mine to actual accelerometer force recordings and given that it’s totally secured it’s pretty accurate.
It's stated in Life After Nemesis that the reason why Alton Towers decided to retrack Nemesis instead of replacing it is because it was still the the most popular rides in the park, which makes me wonder, will B&M ever make another "old school" coaster, seeing as one can beat out much more modern ride technology when it comes to GP opinion.
Eh the new B&Ms are still GP magnets too. I'd only start to worry for B&M if their new projects continue to be really rough.
Relatively rough, right? I thought Iron Menace wasn’t too bad
@@coasterpostIt's pretty shaky. Can be ride ruining in the wrong seat, though it's usually bearable. But it's absolutely unacceptable for a brand-new coaster
It’s a shame they stopped with their snappy inversions
Agreed
I’d say the zero-G rolls on newer inverts are shaped like the floaty camelbacks that B&M are the master of, but inverted at the top, whereas the old school zero-G rolls are like inverted speed hills 🤔
This channel needs so many more subs
tell ur friends
Around 1998, B&M switched from using Stengel gmbh for all their track smoothing and centrelining to doing some of it internally. So for new projects opening from about 2000 onwards, B&M used this change to lower their whip. Over time it feels like b&m very gradually lost more and more of their whip as they realised the GP didn't appreciate it or found it rough.
I feel validated in my date cutoff
Immediately after hearing the “jerk” definition explained, I paused the video for 2 minutes and then realized it is like changing the time it takes to go from 0 to 5 gees in FVD. There is more of a visible jolt on screen whenever you decrease the time between accelerations (or from linear to cubic), and vice versa. God bless FVD.
Wait why the hell did I not use FVD for this
3:10 Which makes me realize in the next decade ALL of those Batman rides will need retracking or replacement.
"Glass smooth hypers"
**shows Diamondback**
Diamond is so fun.
I want more alpengeist cobra rolls 😫
Don't we all
My gosh this is an amazingly nerdy video. Love it.
Thank you, I went way too deep and wasted a ton of my life on it
Hell yeah, you did right by my local god-tier whippy 90's B&M in Afterburn. That thing SLAPPPPPPPPPPS
It's not just B&M either - it's an industry-wide trend.
Compare Intamins like Storm Runner or Maverick to Pantheon or Velocicoaster.
You'll notice the same trend.
In the 90s and early 2000s I sense that the track elements had localized "zero datums" at the top and/or bottom: spots where the track was "unbanked" either fully upside down or fully level and momentarily zeroed in pitch and yaw as well. This would've significantly simplified the math in the simulation and design stage of the ride - and made manufacturing and assembly easier by giving clear reference points the iron workers could slap a regular ol' level on and see if it was "square".
As computer design has become more sophisticated and things can be calculated more accurately in a 3D environment it seems that these points to have been "blended in" to the elements - removing the abrupt changes in radius and thereby the jerk that came with them. On the manufacturing end CNC machining and laser verification can ensure that the designed profile is achieved 'exactly' (down to some thousands anyway) - even while bending the track in multiple axes through 3D space in continuously changing radii without a true "zero" reference. On the assembly end we have construction lasers and range-finders now that would allow reference points to be verified far more accurately to some verified point on the ground - you don't need a "zero" at the top or bottom of elements on the ride anymore.
But I do think B&M really led the way on this - for better or worse. At some point in the late 90s/early 00s they brought their final profiling and forces in-house (away from Stengel) - and that's when you notice the first "softening of the edges" as it were. I think most other manufacturers had the attitude that "it's a thrill ride - so it should jerk you around a little. It should feel a little unpredictable and unhinged", but B&M really wanted their rides to be graceful. I think we might be reaching a point (with rides like Steel Curtain) where the lack of jerk is starting the hurt the experience such that manufacturers are trying to sprinkle it in a little bit - like that last hill on Orion for example.
Great work on this video!
I love these deep dives on commonly discussed though rarely expanded upon coaster topics. Though I must say, that switch from Imperial to Metric at 10:00 gave me more whiplash than a Batman: The Ride Clone 😂. Another great video!
I'll be in the cold hard ground before I use the imperial system for my math
from an operation standpoint, they are so vastly different! the one i operate doesnt even have minimum verify for restraints which was a shocker to me haha
I totally missed out and on the fact you’re a Mechanical Engineer, I’m on my way to be one too!
If you would have asked one of the "old school "ACErs" (0:16). They probably would have told you "old school" B&Ms are the early ones designed by Werner Stengel's firm, Ing.-Büro Stengel GmbH. Seems B&M started staying in house around the time of Stengel's retirement which was 2001and by 2004 B&M was self performing all their engineering and design work.
The jerk store called. They're running out of whippy inversions!
I spent about an hour trying to figure out what to put there and then George Costanza hit my head like a wrecking ball
I feel like you could have honestly done a difference between old Hulk and retrack Hulk. I feel like pre2006 Hulk had stronger air and the second half was faster and forceful.
It def is different but compared to Decepticoaster the difference is far less drastic
Here for thissss
YEAH SCIENCE!
Brought to you by Heisenberg & Mabillard
Alpengeist is still the best coaster at BGW and I'll fight anyone on that 🙃
Gonna ride it for the first time on Wednesday, can't wait!
Gonna disagree on getting accurate force recordings. There’s variables but if it’s orientation to you doesn’t change and there’s no room for it to jiggle around then it is accurate. I’ve compared mine to actual accelerometer force recordings and given that it’s totally secured it’s pretty accurate.
Yeah and after iron menace...wow...jerky and the pothole at end is nothjng like the old style ..and yeah their inversion are too gentle...
Really appreciate all the 🤓😏😈🤘
What