another thing dota does really well is the community made builds system, very nice not having to tab out to some website to see good builds. i don't play RTS games but maybe you could even have some kind of integrated build order guide for those
Dota 2 network/replay engine seems much more modern than blizzards way of network/replay engine design. In blizzard games, you need to know everything that happened so far in the game in order to know the current game state. Meaning, the engine has to know all the player inputs and random numbers generated, and simulate the game from start to current game time, in order for a player to reconnect or in order to watch a replay. This probably has some simplification advantages on the programming side and more significantly, you don't have to send much data around the network (which was very important back in the day). But it also allows things like maphack, because all data is sent to all players. In Dota 2, they have a completely different approach: They have a server (players are never hosts) and just send only the data that the player is supposed to see. So, no full simulation of the game on the client side, but only the server knows the full game state. This prevents any sort of hacks. But it's network intensive, because much more data has to be sent over to the client than just the player inputs and random numbers. Of course, nowadays Dota2's approach is no problem for most internet connections. So, the old blizzard paradigm is out of date and I hope stormgate does not use the old approach. From what I see, wc3 replays are like at most 3MB (even for really long replays, which is also convenient for the limited file storage space back in the early 2000s). Of course, Dota2 keeps track of much more stuff (like player mouse pointer behavior). They've a hundred times bigger replay files in Dota2 than in wc3. And we need to also consider that the replay files are compressed. I hope Stormgate does use the same approach as Dota2, but from what I've seen when trying to replay Stormgate games, they don't allow for jumps to a specific time in the game. You have to simulate the whole game to arrive at a time in the game. That looks like blizzard-style design to me
This is funny, because you say it is more internet expensive. But I play using limited mobile Data with the internet of freaking CUBA and it plays really freaking well actually. I usually have a ping above 100 and on 200 average in USA East though, but that's expected, and is still so smooth you rarely and barely ever notice. In reallity a match is not as expensive as you may think. It costs around the same data as the replay's size, wich is around 100MB on average. Valve has a freaking robust system!
@@KitsuneFaroe I'm not sure about it, but I'd estimate todays mobile internet being even much faster, optimized and reliable than the cable internet we had in 2003. And yes you're probably right that the data rate that is needed in dota2 is a joke for most internet connections. But wc3 was made in a time where there was really unstable and slow internet. So, my argument is still valid: In 2003 you could not have afforded to implement the replay/network engine in the way that Dota2 has. They needed to minimize the data sent over the network.
That is kinda comparing apples with oranges though. The difference is that in RTS, the game needs to compute a lot more stuff than in a Moba. You can have thousands of units in an SC2 match, whereas in a Moba you only have the 10 hero units from the players, perhaps some summons, plus the handful of lane creeps and neutral monsters. This is why the engine is set up the way it is. By having all the computing done on the client, the clients don't have to wait on the server side to compute everything. All they need to transmit are player actions and unit orders. This is why the replay file sizes are so small as you noted, because the game client is able to reenact everything just from player actions and unit orders. So it makes sense that Stormgate, as an RTS, would use a Blizzard style system over a Dota one.
@@emilchan5379 That's a good point, if they plan to have thousands of units in stormgate at the same time, then dota-like system might not be suitable. On the other hand, it's still kind of in the same order of magnitude of units (let's say at worst 100 times more units in an RTS than in Dota). From a computational point of view, that is just a constant factor and I think most connections are already capable of handling this, but that would have to be put to the test by the developers
Not quite true. League has some of these. You can for instance get out of games with disconnects without loss, you can spectate your friends games pseudo live and you can queue while watching a replay. But many of the features are cleary way more fleshed out in dota and the league client is overall just a shitshow.
Something that I always wished brood war had was a built in build order tester. Something that I can write "Barracks at 11/18, refinery at 12/18 depot at 15/18, etc," with a checkbox being filled once it was complete. Also, the ability to choose starting positions in the tester to test mineral income rates during the build order. It would have its flaws and limitations, but I think that it would be a very useful tool for players of all skill levels. A more advanced tester would also let me program in "zealots arrive at 2:15 and then subsequently at a frequency of 23 seconds" to simulate rushes. Or a message that I can say "if you see the enemy's base, they would have a lair, 18 drones, and 3 on gas in a normal 2 hatch muta build order," to calibrate what I should be seeing vs what I have in my build order. All of this can be done through sticky notes and third party clocks etc, but I would rather just have it in the client
another pie in the sky request for the build order tester, allow me to put in mineral income assumptions (either on a per mineral patch basis, or on the first vs second mineral mining a patch), and then allow me to build out a build order and have the program tell me how much mineral excess I will have at the point of 9/10 depot, 11/18 rax, 12/18 refinery, etc, such that I can easily tinker around with "ok, let me build my rax on 10/10 instead of 11/18, how does that impact my minerals since it will give me more defensive capability vs a zealot, and how many seconds would it delay my first vulture by.." All of this is doable in excel or by just running the builds in game, but it would be so nice to have it in game.
I don't remember the name but it does exist now. Basically you launch steam and they got a app that actually override of the screen of broodwar, so u can put ur build order@@endyy6671
regarding the reconnect in HotS, I remember when I had a weaker PC, and I disconnected, if more than like 5 minutes have passed from the game, I didn't even bother trying to reconnect, because it had to replay the entire game!!!! from the befinning, to reconnect you, and since my pc was weak, the replay speed was barely faster than 1:1. So it would simply never catch up before the game ended. When I first saw that system I couldn't believe my eyes 😂
@@Kuzmorgo I am just explaining why HotS' reconnect system is so shitty. I explained this in another comment, but tldr RTS engines are set up in a way to reduce lag/latency/desyncs as much as possible. The downside is that a good reconnect system is hard to do for RTS. Well hopefully FrostGiant can figure something out.
Lets be honest: Blizzard isn't going to learn anything new except greedy financial tactics. The main lesson modern gaming studios need to learn is: Love > Money
I see a few people in the comments talking about this, but at 9:12 onwards, the reason why HotS's reconnect function is so bad, is because it was built off the Starcraft 2 engine, which is an engine for RTS, not Moba. The difference between RTS and Moba is that RTS has to account for vastly more units than a Moba, and to keep the effects of lag/desync to a minimum, most calculations are done client side, not server side. The client only really needs to transmit unit orders to the server - the server it self doesn't hold all the data or the computing. This is why you notice that Starcraft 2 replay sizes are so small - because the data they is mostly just unit orders. To put it simply, the replay isn't saving a chess game, it is saving the chess annotations. For example, Siege tank shoots Zergling. In a SC2 engine, since all calculations are done client side, one client tells the server that a tank shoots the zergling, and the server just needs to transmit that same data to the other client. Both player clients calculate that since a Siege tank does 35 damage, and the zergling only had 10hp left, so the zergling dies. But in an engine that favours server side calculations, the server has to calculate that the zergling did get shot at, and did indeed die, and also transmit that data back to both clients. So in case of lag, a tank can shoot at the zergling, the zergling survives for a second, then dies. I have seen this happen in Dota 2 many times before, I think my hero managed to survive some skill shot, then they suddenly die because the server says hold up actually that earlier skill shot hit and killed you. This can be brushed off in a Moba, but in an RTS with hundreds of units, the effect is a lot more egregious. You can't be waiting for a server to tell you the outcome of hundreds of actions each time. So how does this affect reconnects? Because the server doesn't hold any information except the chess annotations, to reconnect, the game client basically has to "reconstruct" the game and go through the entire list of moves up to that point. This is also how Starcraft's replay rewind function works. I guess what I am saying is, don't be too disappointed if Stormgate doesn't have a good reconnect function. Frostgiant could rectify this by making the server handle more calculations, but that increases the effects of lag/latency, which are much more felt in an RTS than a Moba.
especially helpful with Spell spamming heroes that rely on spell Amp. Hovering while pressing Alt on a Spell, adjusts the damage values according to your spell amp.
If you know anyone at blizz/reforged still, Warcraft 3 could use "Auto send workers to mine" and a feature that lets you hold ctrl while a hero is selected, to send commands to all military units within 1200 range of the hero. Just like ctrl to command all in Dota, would speed up the micro in WC3 dramatically and may eliminate the need for control groups for casuals.
Love the point on Control Groups, it brings me back to another RTS game called Battleforge (now called Skylords Reborn) where on the left hand side of the game UI, you can drag and drop unit icons between unit groups, and new units are automatically added to the most proximal unit group if summoned adjacent.
One thing that really sets Valve on a higher level than other companies is how when they make systems, they absolutely optimize and upgrade it in every possible way for better user engagement. ALOT of under the hood hidden changes just to make their products much better in quality. This is the absolute reason why Steam is still the best PC games store client even though the competition is undercutting them. The value of Steam features is way above and beyond quality
8:18 you can leave the game during the match and use this demo to test item or skill. And i use this every time i question myself if this thing is gonna work on enemy or not. Super cool feature to have.
For an rts, some play waiting small micro game where you can analyze interactively various units abilities and counters etc. perhaps in a chesslike manner. Also, build mapping; strategic placement on map overlays (previews) and build orders. Perhaps even making your own builds with time markers, which will show in game as shadows nearing the set time for the chosen faction. Perhaps these would or wouldn’t be available in ranked. Having an easy to reach way to practice and strategize would greatly enhance how easy it is to learn and become better. Apart from that, color scheme/visualization customization. Unit composition customization. An interactive map overlay or pregame strategic planner in team games where you can draw, place pins and ”unit pieces” on a in menu screen with chat and voice If we can adapt our units looks slightly RPG style, that would be sweet. No 2 players would need to be identical. As long as the macro arsthethic for each unit and faction is still present.
I agree with all your points, those statistics and things to do in the menu are so useful. I would love to see more community action in the upcoming RTS games. I loved the lobby systems in diablo 2/warcraft 3. It made me feel part of the community. AOE4 for example feels really lonely in comparison. In Company of Heroes 1 you got put in a room with other people of your most played faction and the Ranks of each player in the room was shown next to their name and i believe it put them higher on the list according to their rank level and that motivated me to climb the ranks because i wanted to show it off to all the random people there lol. I would love to see ingame Clan/Team features. Maybe like a team Hub that we can decorate and level up by winning games. Ingame Tournaments between team like in the SC2 Team leagues back in the days would be so much fun.
Dota 2 is a competitive multiplayer game made by competitive multiplayer specialists with decades of experience, who are also basically the last AAA company in the west which cares about developer excellence and retention. Dota 2 is an anomaly, or perhaps even a miracle.
Developer retention is, I think, the biggest elephant in the room for the entire western industry. AAA companies are burning through developers like matchsticks. It's no wonder every big release is worse than the last, because every generation of developers are younger and less experienced than the last.
I may be mis remembering but i think you can sort post game scoreboard. If not in client in 3rd party replay parsers (opendota and dotabuff) Open dota will show alot of stuff not found in the client too.
What so great about the demo mode of dota 2 is you can use it while literally in a match, just simply disconnect your current match and then go into demo mode to test things out before connecting your game again.
How do you know the 2 lines on the graph represent 83% chance to win? The y axis has the numbers to indicate xp and gold advantage but no explanation of how that interacts with the win probability percentage
The Dota client is so insanely good that every few years it makes want to try the game again to see if I like it. It's probably the one MOBA I haven't clicked with.
Try the later released heroes and ones that have a faster turn rate. (Info is on the web.) Also, the tutorials in the game, especially the one for using the courier and its hotkeys.
Dota2 is indeed pretty amazing in many things, but three things I'd change are: 1. non expiring battlepasses if you have purchased them. You should be able to switch between them depending on which one you want to grind 2. Accuracy based reporting behaviour. Every time your report is actiones upon, your report weight is increased, and every time your report is judged superfluos/inaccurate/vengeful yiur report weight is lowered. This would help filter out false reporters and boost regularly accurate and reliable reports. Clearly malicious false reporting should carry a severe penalty in this weight 3. If you are ever silenced or banned or your behaviour score is very low, your reports should have greatly diminished value on those categories
4:54 I believe anyone can see this graph, only the performance a breakdowns tabs are Dota + exclusive Dota 2 is really amazing game in some ways, but has a lot of toxic players too. I always liked the interactive replay, while you can find any game that has been played recently and watch it, stop it and rewind at any time. Not every game has that.
Some of things, that Dota 2 does, could be implemented with little elbow grease by programmers and engineers. Dota 2 is evolving and being developed over quite a few years, longer than some other games, and got innovative features. These things can't be easily implemented in every game due to coding architecture, but can be replicated. It is still not easy, because I doubt programmers share their knowledge or leave detailed tooltips on every confusing line of code someone just read. Things just come down to equasion of resources, time, effort, motivation etc. Dota 2 evolves and thrives with time. Under constant development and improvements. Warcraft 3 was neglected, butchered and stitched back together with things missing and minor improvements (thanks Blizzard for FINALLY adding a function to create and manipulate sfx models without making a new dummy unit in data and importing a model without visuals but few attachment points to stick sfx on it. We needed this a decade ago). Stormgate is way too new to be advanced, so I ain't surprised if quality of life is not a priority. Only time will tell in which direction the game will evolve. Did you know that Age of Mythology had a map editor that actually had a real time unit battles? You could literally place units on map and if they see a threat, they fight! No control over actions as far as I remember. It could be possible to make a map in Warcraft 3 that lets you spawn any unit, structure, add upgrades, items and control opposing force.. would take forever to make though. With years of video game development there have been milestones achieved. Besides graphics, functionality and coding milestones were made, but never became new standards for future generations of games. I think that's because coding and engineering are tied closely to resources.
What I realised in the middle of the video is, that once we had the possibility to watch high elo players such a challenger players live games. We do not have this feature anymore..
Two things Id love to see also. 1. Observe a friends game live with their fog of war (Currently available with Dota Plus only - its really the only reason I have it). 2. Queue with a friend to join a bigger team (i.e. me and a friend queue together to join a 4V4).
When it comes to the post game recap, league is only missing the skill breakdown to show dmg per ability etc, and i have been saying for years it would be amazing to have that because it is being tracked in the game itself there are challenges and ''achievements'' or even death recap that shows that so that makes me think riot excludes this option in the post game recap by choice which is kinda sad. They allow us to see damage from each item/rune dealt but not abilities
Never been a fan of that metric, they try to use it in pro play in league but it's almost like looking at the gold graph. Would love to explore what exactly affects this graph in dota if it takes into account how heroes scale in certain points of the game, team comps, etc@@GrubbyTalks
ye that's why when they use the win rate graph in pro play in league it just looks like a useless metric, you can judge yourself by looking at the state of the game and all the variables or it just looks way too similar to gold lead graph :D@@petercserkuthy3292
The others are pretty neat not gonna lie, like replays during match making, but I feel I would rush it and don’t dive into it as deep. But still a nice to have regardless
you can watch replay or spectate while being in queue in league also wdym, you can stay there until last second of champion select before game starts@@petercserkuthy3292
League also a kind of stats collection call the Eternals that collects the data on something like how many times have you stunned enemies with your E as Irelia. But the thing is we already have mastery point stats to show how much have you played that champion before and while Eternals does collect that kinda number but it doesnt show how cool you are, it only shows how long have you been playing that champion just like mastery point, Eternals should have been a percentage stat to show how successful you are at the things that it collects data like how many times did Grubby successfully stunned an enemy with Irelia E out of 10 times of casting that ability per game across 10 games.
Id say the part that Dota used to do before we got our own reforge, the saving and replaying of the same moment several times from a middle of a multipalyer game (if you would like to)
4:45 dota+ win probability is awesome. you can see that, even though the teams' XP and gold stayed close, the win chance shifted dramatically around 20min. The Dire's strong early heroes did not secure enough of a lead to keep from falling off against the Radiant's strong late game cores. Dota+Plus helps you learn aspects of heroes quicker than you could with other games' match summaries.
one of most useful imo: shift / shift+ctrl clicking spells/items/buffs n stuff ingame to alert allies behavior mmr to match u equally toxic/nontoxic allies
There's quite a few people that just live in the HotS General chat. Everytime I login I always see certain people even after months of inactivity I come back and they're still in there just chatting. I have gotta assume they got HotS running 24/7 on a 2nd monitor, I don't think they actually play the game at all 😆
I'd like the leaver to bear most of not all of the mmr loss for the action, this would be by far the most fair and simple way to handle and curb such occurrence imo, yet it's never been implemented.😢
When you have +400 000 player at the same time, then you can have dedicated servers... Especially when you have large a shop on your own... I think only a competent studio inside valve with good IP can make great RTS with all of these features. But valve seems to be rusty in last years and I doubt they would hire or buy some RTS company with good IP...
most important thing when creating a replay system is having the option to have true PP from dota. kinda baffled league doesn't. this allows you to learn so much more since you see in much more detail what actions they are making. specially for stormgate and people getting in early, replays is the way people can use to learn faster kind of like a metabolic chamber than waitign for content. I feel as pro view in league not being inbeded is so weird. while they ace so many things, they fail on some serious fundamentals
I think they're going to put it on Gamepass 90% sure, Steam 50% sure, and will continue small improvements to make it a bit better and better. Not expecting new Heroes but I think rebalancing is realistic. They've already started! (3 balance changes - but that's still a combo breaker of the silence/inactivity before - so I think chances are good)
Really wish that chat history will always be considered when someone throws a game or grief. Because some cases I have seen and experience in game. People trash talk and flame a person too much, many times for literally no reason or to release anger at anybody, it is no surprise they will grief.
@@Aesc1016 Yeah, that why I wish it would, for context. Sometimes we report the person as guilty, but the one who send in the case is the most toxic one.
Valve: make an amazing replay system that can even remember hundreds of trees interactions Also valve: can't have simple chat history which time precision isnt even important
The key point is still the big problems that have arisen within Blizzard in recent years, which have nothing to do with game development. Even though the suggestions we put forward are very practical, they cannot be implemented. The remastered version of Warcraft is a very practical example. Even though you warned them not to release the original version directly, they still did it, which resulted in this game becoming a game with such poor reviews. To put it simply, your suggestion is good, but Blizzard cannot implement it. Even after being acquired by Microsoft, I think the possibility of them re-focusing on RTS games, including StarCraft, is very low.
You know What ruins custom Games in starcraft 2 for me? That even when there was a large amount of players you wait so long for it to start. Later the game can be very long… or very short and here lies the problem. I wish players could just join as observers until the game ends so they could instantly play next round without waiting in lobby like in cod matches.
Most ideas you mention only apply to 5v5 team games. Que time in RTS is like 30 second (1v1). You don't have time to do other things in the client. Neither stormgate nor the other rts mention is aiming for anything higher than 2v2. In addition, I feel this isn't helpful at this stage in development for either game. You realize DOTA2 has been out for a decade--with multiple interations of its client. Issues developers need help on addressing is how to make the core content they launch with, interesting and streamlined enough to keep players interested. They also need a way to monetitize their product. Also, most of the features you mentioned that other games "don't have" is only true if you look at first-party solutions. SC2 has plenty of unit tester maps. SC2 has replay trackers with a ton of info. They even have a sc2 co-op overlay with tons of stats. The fact is they don't have 10 years of time to flesh out these features at launch, so saying these things really doesn't benefit developers at this time
the higher rating you get, the longer the cue time is, and the odder hours you play, the same. The smaller the region... You will always run into issues with this
I agree, I love rts but I find it so difficult to get into or play for so many technical reasons, I was super excited with stormgate and had hope but after viewing it, I see almost no innovation. Big teller of this that bothers me is the UI design in game, they still have that clunky UI with empty space and box’s full of various commands like ‘s’ for the stop command and the ‘p’ key for patrol. Games like dota and league are successful for a reason because they streamline these controls, make things more simple, league on the most part and look at them. Stormgate should hide action keys to only show what is most necessary like these examples; they should make the UI smaller and more simple. Then last of course to make the game sell you need attractive girls, which is what sets league apart from dota :3
I had a way worse experience in my first few games of multiplayer HotS than I ever did in dota. Guy just abused me non stop all game, similar dude in the very next game. I don’t know how the myth of the particularly toxic dota community was started but it’s now definitely overblown. It’s the biggest barrier to people starting the game I think.
These are some neat features around the game, but why does the game it4slf feel so disconnected? Am i alone here? The core actual game feels sluggish, unresponsive... distant. It's like playing a video game but through some extra membrane that dulls the sensation of interaction
That's on purpose, because they want to recreate how warcraft 3 feels. meaning turn rate, spell cast point animation, attack rate animation etc is still on dota. They even have patch balance on these, making some heroes can become meta (like the change for centa first skill animation) The game is also designed to start at a slow pace and gradually become faster in the late game. It becomes more chaotic because there's a lot of skill and items interactions
@@RJordanBishop well it's definitely feel better than the modded WC3 version one now after 20 years, especially the movement , projectiles, and skill interactions. Honestly, I too wasn't sure what's the fun of Dota compared to other WC3 mods, because it's way too complex compared to others. But when you're getting better at the game and realized what things you can and cannot do (having a group of friends who plays it helps too), I start to realize what a really fun and beautiful game it is
Peasant perspective: the post-Reborn Dota2 client has raised its system reqs so high, I can no longer play the game (and I could back in 2012 on an even more ancient laptop). Another point - the UI is so cluttered, it's harrowing for any new player. And finally, Mobile Legends has streamer integration, too. - Adûnâi
@@mytylakishi6989 i played all mobas at some point and from my experience DOTA was by far the most toxic elitarian "community". just place 1 ward "wrong" and you get flamed to hell and back
Dota 2 is the best game and it's really obvious for all the reasons grubby mentioned. Just need a tougher skin to cope with the moba player's baby rage. All of them have this issue.
Many of these sound amazing but: if Overwatch review works well, why is the Dota 2 community still so toxic? Is it just that it would be even worse without?
Helps to clean up the start a bit so I can do it in one take. I know you can tell, a bit, but I don't mind. I like to be prepared for some of these (without spending an hour rehearsing the start)
The dota 2 peer review thing is not new. League actually has it since 2012, it was called the summoner's tribunal. But it sucked because League players would all just say yes to punish everyone.. It got replaced by actual support systems, which is infinitely better.
1 tribunal sucks is only a chat log without regulation and machine learning 2 league behavior system is trash people troll and go afk and the game does nothing, i have played fucking yuumi jungle afk several times and never go punish, the only thing league punishes are the idiots that run down under tower 20 times in a row 3 dota behavior score affects matchmaking this generate a island effect that makes trolls play with and vs trolls this punish this behavior in long run, it takes 1 day for get rid of a ban or play 5 games to get out of low priority but for get you behavior score back from the 3000 to 12000 is gona take you fucking weeks because you get like 2k behavior score in 15 Games WITHOU BEING REPORTED, and you are gona play like 50 games with human toxic trash oh it you keep being toxic you drop from 3k behavior score and you can’t play ranked. low behavior score punish toxic behavior making players have large q for a game and making them play toxics with toxics. you want a behavior system to improve matchmaking and punish bad people like dota you don’t want a behavior system that only bans people for using chat( i have see people get banned for write to much or for stupid shit like saying kill bot) in game i a fucking multiplayer game( a social fucking game) that has 0 effect in the fucking matchmaking because a honor 5 can get a teammate honor 0 in the same fucking team.
If I remember correctly, the biggest issue with League's tribunal was that there was a reward (IP maybe? It's been a while) for completing cases if you voted with the majority. That's what led to people always voting to punish so they could complete as many cases as possible as fast as possible with the same vote as the majority. As far as I know, there is no reward for completing Overwatch cases, so there is no outside reason to blindly vote yes. Instead, Dota players complete Overwatch cases for the same reason as anything else we do: targeted spite.
Dota 2 is great, great QoL, great UI/UX, great features, great demo mode, it's great... on paper. Actually playing Dota 2 though... eeeh, that's a tall order. Coop is 99% dead, the turn rates can be off putting for many people, and the games can really drag on.
![[EN] Tundra Esports vs Team Falcons | Bo5 | FISSURE Playground 1 - Dota](/img/n.gif)
another thing dota does really well is the community made builds system, very nice not having to tab out to some website to see good builds. i don't play RTS games but maybe you could even have some kind of integrated build order guide for those
yessss community build order guide for RTS would be a great feature for new players.
Defenitly
Dota 2 network/replay engine seems much more modern than blizzards way of network/replay engine design.
In blizzard games, you need to know everything that happened so far in the game in order to know the current game state. Meaning, the engine has to know all the player inputs and random numbers generated, and simulate the game from start to current game time, in order for a player to reconnect or in order to watch a replay.
This probably has some simplification advantages on the programming side and more significantly, you don't have to send much data around the network (which was very important back in the day). But it also allows things like maphack, because all data is sent to all players.
In Dota 2, they have a completely different approach: They have a server (players are never hosts) and just send only the data that the player is supposed to see. So, no full simulation of the game on the client side, but only the server knows the full game state. This prevents any sort of hacks. But it's network intensive, because much more data has to be sent over to the client than just the player inputs and random numbers. Of course, nowadays Dota2's approach is no problem for most internet connections. So, the old blizzard paradigm is out of date and I hope stormgate does not use the old approach.
From what I see, wc3 replays are like at most 3MB (even for really long replays, which is also convenient for the limited file storage space back in the early 2000s). Of course, Dota2 keeps track of much more stuff (like player mouse pointer behavior). They've a hundred times bigger replay files in Dota2 than in wc3. And we need to also consider that the replay files are compressed.
I hope Stormgate does use the same approach as Dota2, but from what I've seen when trying to replay Stormgate games, they don't allow for jumps to a specific time in the game. You have to simulate the whole game to arrive at a time in the game. That looks like blizzard-style design to me
This is funny, because you say it is more internet expensive. But I play using limited mobile Data with the internet of freaking CUBA and it plays really freaking well actually.
I usually have a ping above 100 and on 200 average in USA East though, but that's expected, and is still so smooth you rarely and barely ever notice.
In reallity a match is not as expensive as you may think. It costs around the same data as the replay's size, wich is around 100MB on average. Valve has a freaking robust system!
@@KitsuneFaroe I'm not sure about it, but I'd estimate todays mobile internet being even much faster, optimized and reliable than the cable internet we had in 2003.
And yes you're probably right that the data rate that is needed in dota2 is a joke for most internet connections. But wc3 was made in a time where there was really unstable and slow internet. So, my argument is still valid: In 2003 you could not have afforded to implement the replay/network engine in the way that Dota2 has. They needed to minimize the data sent over the network.
dota 2 still has many kinds of hacks, including map hack, but they can be less effective
That is kinda comparing apples with oranges though.
The difference is that in RTS, the game needs to compute a lot more stuff than in a Moba. You can have thousands of units in an SC2 match, whereas in a Moba you only have the 10 hero units from the players, perhaps some summons, plus the handful of lane creeps and neutral monsters.
This is why the engine is set up the way it is. By having all the computing done on the client, the clients don't have to wait on the server side to compute everything. All they need to transmit are player actions and unit orders. This is why the replay file sizes are so small as you noted, because the game client is able to reenact everything just from player actions and unit orders.
So it makes sense that Stormgate, as an RTS, would use a Blizzard style system over a Dota one.
@@emilchan5379 That's a good point, if they plan to have thousands of units in stormgate at the same time, then dota-like system might not be suitable.
On the other hand, it's still kind of in the same order of magnitude of units (let's say at worst 100 times more units in an RTS than in Dota).
From a computational point of view, that is just a constant factor and I think most connections are already capable of handling this, but that would have to be put to the test by the developers
0:07 You wouldn't even recognize RTS anymore.
I TRIED SO HAAARDD AND GOT HIGH ELO
BUT IN THE END, WARCRAFT 3 REFORGED HAPPENED.
I had this same thought 🤣
Damn i cant believe i took all of these for granted i didnt even know League doesnt have any of these features.
LoL features are crap.
Not quite true. League has some of these. You can for instance get out of games with disconnects without loss, you can spectate your friends games pseudo live and you can queue while watching a replay. But many of the features are cleary way more fleshed out in dota and the league client is overall just a shitshow.
I think league reconnection is reasonably fast. Hots reconnection is an absolute disaster
Something that I always wished brood war had was a built in build order tester. Something that I can write "Barracks at 11/18, refinery at 12/18 depot at 15/18, etc," with a checkbox being filled once it was complete. Also, the ability to choose starting positions in the tester to test mineral income rates during the build order. It would have its flaws and limitations, but I think that it would be a very useful tool for players of all skill levels. A more advanced tester would also let me program in "zealots arrive at 2:15 and then subsequently at a frequency of 23 seconds" to simulate rushes. Or a message that I can say "if you see the enemy's base, they would have a lair, 18 drones, and 3 on gas in a normal 2 hatch muta build order," to calibrate what I should be seeing vs what I have in my build order. All of this can be done through sticky notes and third party clocks etc, but I would rather just have it in the client
another pie in the sky request for the build order tester, allow me to put in mineral income assumptions (either on a per mineral patch basis, or on the first vs second mineral mining a patch), and then allow me to build out a build order and have the program tell me how much mineral excess I will have at the point of 9/10 depot, 11/18 rax, 12/18 refinery, etc, such that I can easily tinker around with "ok, let me build my rax on 10/10 instead of 11/18, how does that impact my minerals since it will give me more defensive capability vs a zealot, and how many seconds would it delay my first vulture by.." All of this is doable in excel or by just running the builds in game, but it would be so nice to have it in game.
I don't remember the name but it does exist now. Basically you launch steam and they got a app that actually override of the screen of broodwar, so u can put ur build order@@endyy6671
When Dota first released moving over from LoL it was amazing. Just having an in built replay system was insanely useful
regarding the reconnect in HotS, I remember when I had a weaker PC, and I disconnected, if more than like 5 minutes have passed from the game, I didn't even bother trying to reconnect, because it had to replay the entire game!!!! from the befinning, to reconnect you, and since my pc was weak, the replay speed was barely faster than 1:1. So it would simply never catch up before the game ended. When I first saw that system I couldn't believe my eyes 😂
1:1 LOL
To be fair, HotS was built on the Starcraft 2 engine, which is geared towards running an RTS, not a Moba.
@@emilchan5379 so you are suggesting a reconnect feature isn't valuable in an RTS?
@@Kuzmorgo I am just explaining why HotS' reconnect system is so shitty.
I explained this in another comment, but tldr RTS engines are set up in a way to reduce lag/latency/desyncs as much as possible. The downside is that a good reconnect system is hard to do for RTS. Well hopefully FrostGiant can figure something out.
Lets be honest: Blizzard isn't going to learn anything new except greedy financial tactics. The main lesson modern gaming studios need to learn is: Love > Money
I see a few people in the comments talking about this, but at 9:12 onwards, the reason why HotS's reconnect function is so bad, is because it was built off the Starcraft 2 engine, which is an engine for RTS, not Moba.
The difference between RTS and Moba is that RTS has to account for vastly more units than a Moba, and to keep the effects of lag/desync to a minimum, most calculations are done client side, not server side. The client only really needs to transmit unit orders to the server - the server it self doesn't hold all the data or the computing. This is why you notice that Starcraft 2 replay sizes are so small - because the data they is mostly just unit orders. To put it simply, the replay isn't saving a chess game, it is saving the chess annotations.
For example, Siege tank shoots Zergling. In a SC2 engine, since all calculations are done client side, one client tells the server that a tank shoots the zergling, and the server just needs to transmit that same data to the other client. Both player clients calculate that since a Siege tank does 35 damage, and the zergling only had 10hp left, so the zergling dies. But in an engine that favours server side calculations, the server has to calculate that the zergling did get shot at, and did indeed die, and also transmit that data back to both clients.
So in case of lag, a tank can shoot at the zergling, the zergling survives for a second, then dies. I have seen this happen in Dota 2 many times before, I think my hero managed to survive some skill shot, then they suddenly die because the server says hold up actually that earlier skill shot hit and killed you. This can be brushed off in a Moba, but in an RTS with hundreds of units, the effect is a lot more egregious. You can't be waiting for a server to tell you the outcome of hundreds of actions each time.
So how does this affect reconnects? Because the server doesn't hold any information except the chess annotations, to reconnect, the game client basically has to "reconstruct" the game and go through the entire list of moves up to that point. This is also how Starcraft's replay rewind function works.
I guess what I am saying is, don't be too disappointed if Stormgate doesn't have a good reconnect function. Frostgiant could rectify this by making the server handle more calculations, but that increases the effects of lag/latency, which are much more felt in an RTS than a Moba.
you can always just duplicate the work
Pressing Alt while hovering with the mouse on a skill shows more details about that skill
especially helpful with Spell spamming heroes that rely on spell Amp. Hovering while pressing Alt on a Spell, adjusts the damage values according to your spell amp.
If you know anyone at blizz/reforged still, Warcraft 3 could use "Auto send workers to mine" and a feature that lets you hold ctrl while a hero is selected, to send commands to all military units within 1200 range of the hero. Just like ctrl to command all in Dota, would speed up the micro in WC3 dramatically and may eliminate the need for control groups for casuals.
Love the point on Control Groups, it brings me back to another RTS game called Battleforge (now called Skylords Reborn) where on the left hand side of the game UI, you can drag and drop unit icons between unit groups, and new units are automatically added to the most proximal unit group if summoned adjacent.
One thing that really sets Valve on a higher level than other companies is how when they make systems, they absolutely optimize and upgrade it in every possible way for better user engagement. ALOT of under the hood hidden changes just to make their products much better in quality. This is the absolute reason why Steam is still the best PC games store client even though the competition is undercutting them. The value of Steam features is way above and beyond quality
8:18 you can leave the game during the match and use this demo to test item or skill.
And i use this every time i question myself if this thing is gonna work on enemy or not.
Super cool feature to have.
For an rts, some play waiting small micro game where you can analyze interactively various units abilities and counters etc. perhaps in a chesslike manner.
Also, build mapping; strategic placement on map overlays (previews) and build orders. Perhaps even making your own builds with time markers, which will show in game as shadows nearing the set time for the chosen faction. Perhaps these would or wouldn’t be available in ranked.
Having an easy to reach way to practice and strategize would greatly enhance how easy it is to learn and become better.
Apart from that, color scheme/visualization customization.
Unit composition customization.
An interactive map overlay or pregame strategic planner in team games where you can draw, place pins and ”unit pieces” on a in menu screen with chat and voice
If we can adapt our units looks slightly RPG style, that would be sweet. No 2 players would need to be identical. As long as the macro arsthethic for each unit and faction is still present.
I agree with all your points, those statistics and things to do in the menu are so useful. I would love to see more community action in the upcoming RTS games. I loved the lobby systems in diablo 2/warcraft 3. It made me feel part of the community. AOE4 for example feels really lonely in comparison. In Company of Heroes 1 you got put in a room with other people of your most played faction and the Ranks of each player in the room was shown next to their name and i believe it put them higher on the list according to their rank level and that motivated me to climb the ranks because i wanted to show it off to all the random people there lol. I would love to see ingame Clan/Team features. Maybe like a team Hub that we can decorate and level up by winning games. Ingame Tournaments between team like in the SC2 Team leagues back in the days would be so much fun.
Don't forget about pausing feature when someone disconnects.
Dota 2 is a competitive multiplayer game made by competitive multiplayer specialists with decades of experience, who are also basically the last AAA company in the west which cares about developer excellence and retention. Dota 2 is an anomaly, or perhaps even a miracle.
Developer retention is, I think, the biggest elephant in the room for the entire western industry. AAA companies are burning through developers like matchsticks. It's no wonder every big release is worse than the last, because every generation of developers are younger and less experienced than the last.
Yeah Tech-Wise Dota 2 looks unmatched. This is insane.
10:00 also, your guy runs towards safety when you disconnect :)
Yeah, so good actually
I may be mis remembering but i think you can sort post game scoreboard. If not in client in 3rd party replay parsers (opendota and dotabuff)
Open dota will show alot of stuff not found in the client too.
What so great about the demo mode of dota 2 is you can use it while literally in a match, just simply disconnect your current match and then go into demo mode to test things out before connecting your game again.
Yeah that's insane. You could theoretically use this during a 80 second death timer, lol.
How do you know the 2 lines on the graph represent 83% chance to win? The y axis has the numbers to indicate xp and gold advantage but no explanation of how that interacts with the win probability percentage
The Dota client is so insanely good that every few years it makes want to try the game again to see if I like it. It's probably the one MOBA I haven't clicked with.
Try the later released heroes and ones that have a faster turn rate. (Info is on the web.)
Also, the tutorials in the game, especially the one for using the courier and its hotkeys.
Dota2 is indeed pretty amazing in many things, but three things I'd change are:
1. non expiring battlepasses if you have purchased them. You should be able to switch between them depending on which one you want to grind
2. Accuracy based reporting behaviour. Every time your report is actiones upon, your report weight is increased, and every time your report is judged superfluos/inaccurate/vengeful yiur report weight is lowered. This would help filter out false reporters and boost regularly accurate and reliable reports. Clearly malicious false reporting should carry a severe penalty in this weight
3. If you are ever silenced or banned or your behaviour score is very low, your reports should have greatly diminished value on those categories
the first point would be amazing, even if past battle passes took couple times longer to lvl up
Points 2 and 3 are kinda true. Your overreporting diminishes your Behaviour score
@@Crackbone123 Since when? do you have a source on this? I have never observed this to be the case nor seen it mentioned anywhere
Dota the GOAT of mobas
4:54 I believe anyone can see this graph, only the performance a breakdowns tabs are Dota + exclusive
Dota 2 is really amazing game in some ways, but has a lot of toxic players too.
I always liked the interactive replay, while you can find any game that has been played recently and watch it, stop it and rewind at any time. Not every game has that.
Some of things, that Dota 2 does, could be implemented with little elbow grease by programmers and engineers. Dota 2 is evolving and being developed over quite a few years, longer than some other games, and got innovative features. These things can't be easily implemented in every game due to coding architecture, but can be replicated. It is still not easy, because I doubt programmers share their knowledge or leave detailed tooltips on every confusing line of code someone just read.
Things just come down to equasion of resources, time, effort, motivation etc.
Dota 2 evolves and thrives with time. Under constant development and improvements.
Warcraft 3 was neglected, butchered and stitched back together with things missing and minor improvements (thanks Blizzard for FINALLY adding a function to create and manipulate sfx models without making a new dummy unit in data and importing a model without visuals but few attachment points to stick sfx on it. We needed this a decade ago).
Stormgate is way too new to be advanced, so I ain't surprised if quality of life is not a priority. Only time will tell in which direction the game will evolve.
Did you know that Age of Mythology had a map editor that actually had a real time unit battles? You could literally place units on map and if they see a threat, they fight! No control over actions as far as I remember. It could be possible to make a map in Warcraft 3 that lets you spawn any unit, structure, add upgrades, items and control opposing force.. would take forever to make though.
With years of video game development there have been milestones achieved. Besides graphics, functionality and coding milestones were made, but never became new standards for future generations of games. I think that's because coding and engineering are tied closely to resources.
Solid video. Coming from league, its funny how we used to have some of these features .
What I realised in the middle of the video is, that once we had the possibility to watch high elo players such a challenger players live games. We do not have this feature anymore..
@@WaePonZX Why was this removed?
Prolly to support selling more Lux skins. @@ArilandoArilando
@@ArilandoArilando cant tell
hard agree. UI, UX, and quality of life features heavily impact my enjoyment of a program/game.
I really hope Valve gives a presentation at GDC or something with regards to their experience with developing DotA 2 throughout the years.
That would actually be amazing.
Dota 2 was decades ahead of everyone else, and still is to this day
Two things Id love to see also. 1. Observe a friends game live with their fog of war (Currently available with Dota Plus only - its really the only reason I have it). 2. Queue with a friend to join a bigger team (i.e. me and a friend queue together to join a 4V4).
When it comes to the post game recap, league is only missing the skill breakdown to show dmg per ability etc, and i have been saying for years it would be amazing to have that because it is being tracked in the game itself there are challenges and ''achievements'' or even death recap that shows that so that makes me think riot excludes this option in the post game recap by choice which is kinda sad. They allow us to see damage from each item/rune dealt but not abilities
It's true that League has a lot of post-game stats, but it looks a LOT worse! And they don't have the win rate graph~
Never been a fan of that metric, they try to use it in pro play in league but it's almost like looking at the gold graph. Would love to explore what exactly affects this graph in dota if it takes into account how heroes scale in certain points of the game, team comps, etc@@GrubbyTalks
ye that's why when they use the win rate graph in pro play in league it just looks like a useless metric, you can judge yourself by looking at the state of the game and all the variables or it just looks way too similar to gold lead graph :D@@petercserkuthy3292
The others are pretty neat not gonna lie, like replays during match making, but I feel I would rush it and don’t dive into it as deep. But still a nice to have regardless
you can watch replay or spectate while being in queue in league also wdym, you can stay there until last second of champion select before game starts@@petercserkuthy3292
League also a kind of stats collection call the Eternals that collects the data on something like how many times have you stunned enemies with your E as Irelia. But the thing is we already have mastery point stats to show how much have you played that champion before and while Eternals does collect that kinda number but it doesnt show how cool you are, it only shows how long have you been playing that champion just like mastery point, Eternals should have been a percentage stat to show how successful you are at the things that it collects data like how many times did Grubby successfully stunned an enemy with Irelia E out of 10 times of casting that ability per game across 10 games.
Id say the part that Dota used to do before we got our own reforge, the saving and replaying of the same moment several times from a middle of a multipalyer game (if you would like to)
All I want from this new generation of RTS', is an amazing campaign.
it is kind of funny thinking back. RTS was playing the campaign and then being intrigued by the idea of playing against another human being.
4:45 dota+ win probability is awesome. you can see that, even though the teams' XP and gold stayed close, the win chance shifted dramatically around 20min. The Dire's strong early heroes did not secure enough of a lead to keep from falling off against the Radiant's strong late game cores. Dota+Plus helps you learn aspects of heroes quicker than you could with other games' match summaries.
Cool but as his chat pointed out, that feature doesn't need Dota +.
one of most useful imo:
shift / shift+ctrl clicking spells/items/buffs n stuff ingame to alert allies
behavior mmr to match u equally toxic/nontoxic allies
matching toxicity level would be great, it honestly would make me play dota2 again, no joke.
cool features. the only i know of that sg plans to have eventually-for sure-is a watch feature just like that.
There's quite a few people that just live in the HotS General chat. Everytime I login I always see certain people even after months of inactivity I come back and they're still in there just chatting. I have gotta assume they got HotS running 24/7 on a 2nd monitor, I don't think they actually play the game at all 😆
I'd like the leaver to bear most of not all of the mmr loss for the action, this would be by far the most fair and simple way to handle and curb such occurrence imo, yet it's never been implemented.😢
When you have +400 000 player at the same time, then you can have dedicated servers... Especially when you have large a shop on your own...
I think only a competent studio inside valve with good IP can make great RTS with all of these features. But valve seems to be rusty in last years and I doubt they would hire or buy some RTS company with good IP...
most important thing when creating a replay system is having the option to have true PP from dota. kinda baffled league doesn't.
this allows you to learn so much more since you see in much more detail what actions they are making. specially for stormgate and people getting in early, replays is the way people can use to learn faster kind of like a metabolic chamber than waitign for content.
I feel as pro view in league not being inbeded is so weird. while they ace so many things, they fail on some serious fundamentals
100%
I love everything about dota 2. All it needs is a full movie with in-game characters, not anime crap.
9:00 idk if grubby knows but u can demo hero while still playing ingame to test interactons
Valve has a lot of resources and engineering brilliance. Guess we'll see if smaller studios can replicate that or not.
LoL used to have a tribunal for judgement. They removed it.
the pathing is one of the mechanics that wc3 should fix sometime units loses their mind
Awesome video, thanks! Will copy those ideas straight away and implement them (as far as possible) in my own mobile MOBA game!
Good luck :)
@@GrubbyTalks Thanks!
12:30 wtf happen there?
Great list!
Hey Grubby , if you by chance are reading this, may I ask what’s your opinion on the hopes for HotS being revived by Microsoft ?
Thanks
I think they're going to put it on Gamepass 90% sure, Steam 50% sure, and will continue small improvements to make it a bit better and better. Not expecting new Heroes but I think rebalancing is realistic. They've already started! (3 balance changes - but that's still a combo breaker of the silence/inactivity before - so I think chances are good)
Being able to do stuff while I’m the que is huge. You can’t even look at the leaderboard in some games
Yep, it just makes queueing a lot more fun. Definitely befitting 2024 and our collective attention spans
This is what xqc mentioned that this game has soul.
"things aren't the way they were before,
you wouldn't even recognize me anymore"
I wish the League of Legends client was better, it's really an eyesore. A stain on such an amazing game.
You had me till "amazing game".
Really wish that chat history will always be considered when someone throws a game or grief. Because some cases I have seen and experience in game. People trash talk and flame a person too much, many times for literally no reason or to release anger at anybody, it is no surprise they will grief.
replay chat history mostly comes from all chat rather than team
sometimes it doesnt even work
@@Aesc1016 Yeah, that why I wish it would, for context. Sometimes we report the person as guilty, but the one who send in the case is the most toxic one.
Valve: make an amazing replay system that can even remember hundreds of trees interactions
Also valve: can't have simple chat history which time precision isnt even important
lol he's got the AoW Planetfall soundtrack playing around 8:50
Also the twitch intigration is insane. I’m not sure if it’s just for big events
The guides have so many features, and also the arcade
Some great ideeas are being presented here.
Let's hope they don't fall on deaf ears.
Cheers!
Cs have stats for all your weapons and what weapons you are best with
The key point is still the big problems that have arisen within Blizzard in recent years, which have nothing to do with game development. Even though the suggestions we put forward are very practical, they cannot be implemented. The remastered version of Warcraft is a very practical example. Even though you warned them not to release the original version directly, they still did it, which resulted in this game becoming a game with such poor reviews.
To put it simply, your suggestion is good, but Blizzard cannot implement it.
Even after being acquired by Microsoft, I think the possibility of them re-focusing on RTS games, including StarCraft, is very low.
In HotS you cant even open boxes while waiting for a match.
8:18 ye it'd b rly cool to see zealots vs zerglings in wc3
You know What ruins custom Games in starcraft 2 for me? That even when there was a large amount of players you wait so long for it to start. Later the game can be very long… or very short and here lies the problem. I wish players could just join as observers until the game ends so they could instantly play next round without waiting in lobby like in cod matches.
Grubby said "League of Legends" for the firs time in a while! Love it!
rescue (implementations) will be coming grubby, have faith
Great advice for the current and future RTS and other game developers!
Thanks!
Most ideas you mention only apply to 5v5 team games.
Que time in RTS is like 30 second (1v1). You don't have time to do other things in the client.
Neither stormgate nor the other rts mention is aiming for anything higher than 2v2. In addition, I feel this isn't helpful at this stage in development for either game. You realize DOTA2 has been out for a decade--with multiple interations of its client.
Issues developers need help on addressing is how to make the core content they launch with, interesting and streamlined enough to keep players interested. They also need a way to monetitize their product.
Also, most of the features you mentioned that other games "don't have" is only true if you look at first-party solutions. SC2 has plenty of unit tester maps. SC2 has replay trackers with a ton of info. They even have a sc2 co-op overlay with tons of stats.
The fact is they don't have 10 years of time to flesh out these features at launch, so saying these things really doesn't benefit developers at this time
SG said that 3v3 will be a focus, ranked or otherwise.
the higher rating you get, the longer the cue time is, and the odder hours you play, the same. The smaller the region... You will always run into issues with this
didnt stormgate want to do a good 3on3 mode?
if not, then I am 100% sure I won't play the game.
It's like nobody reads my comments. lol @@snuffeldjuret
I agree, I love rts but I find it so difficult to get into or play for so many technical reasons, I was super excited with stormgate and had hope but after viewing it, I see almost no innovation.
Big teller of this that bothers me is the UI design in game, they still have that clunky UI with empty space and box’s full of various commands like ‘s’ for the stop command and the ‘p’ key for patrol.
Games like dota and league are successful for a reason because they streamline these controls, make things more simple, league on the most part and look at them.
Stormgate should hide action keys to only show what is most necessary like these examples; they should make the UI smaller and more simple.
Then last of course to make the game sell you need attractive girls, which is what sets league apart from dota
:3
By attractive girls do you mean attractive champions or fans?
They are looking for a UI designer.. frostgiant.com/ui-artist/
I at least hope that the command box will stay as an option. I love challenging myself by playing SC2 games mouse only.
agreed, we need anime booba skins for brood war.
StarCraft 2 defaults to a "simplified" UI similar to what you describe and literally everyone disables it in the options menu.
8:23 is the best!
no one going to talk about arcade???????
I had a way worse experience in my first few games of multiplayer HotS than I ever did in dota. Guy just abused me non stop all game, similar dude in the very next game.
I don’t know how the myth of the particularly toxic dota community was started but it’s now definitely overblown. It’s the biggest barrier to people starting the game I think.
Don't forget drawing Ds on the minimap.
These are some neat features around the game, but why does the game it4slf feel so disconnected?
Am i alone here? The core actual game feels sluggish, unresponsive... distant. It's like playing a video game but through some extra membrane that dulls the sensation of interaction
Some of it is just unfamiliarity. Some can be a deal breaker (people mention the turn rate a lot but that can be sth to get familiar to as well).
cl_interp 1
dunno if that is a thing still though :)
That's on purpose, because they want to recreate how warcraft 3 feels. meaning turn rate, spell cast point animation, attack rate animation etc is still on dota. They even have patch balance on these, making some heroes can become meta (like the change for centa first skill animation)
The game is also designed to start at a slow pace and gradually become faster in the late game. It becomes more chaotic because there's a lot of skill and items interactions
@@manoi8 that does make some sense. For me personally i wonder if they're trying to remain TOO true to the source, but... i mean clearly it's popular
@@RJordanBishop well it's definitely feel better than the modded WC3 version one now after 20 years, especially the movement , projectiles, and skill interactions.
Honestly, I too wasn't sure what's the fun of Dota compared to other WC3 mods, because it's way too complex compared to others. But when you're getting better at the game and realized what things you can and cannot do (having a group of friends who plays it helps too), I start to realize what a really fun and beautiful game it is
Hope stormgate devs learn from this
playing dota2, or any other game like that, with 4 good friends is epic.
Peasant perspective: the post-Reborn Dota2 client has raised its system reqs so high, I can no longer play the game (and I could back in 2012 on an even more ancient laptop). Another point - the UI is so cluttered, it's harrowing for any new player. And finally, Mobile Legends has streamer integration, too.
- Adûnâi
I love hearing Grubby talk about things he loves 😍
great start to a video: "the community is toxic, the rest is amazing"
DOTA probably has the most toxic gamingcommunity ever known to mankind
League owns that title one of the reason they removed voice coms + more players
@@mytylakishi6989 i played all mobas at some point and from my experience DOTA was by far the most toxic elitarian "community".
just place 1 ward "wrong" and you get flamed to hell and back
Only thing that dota is worse than league is in the fact that valve doesn't give a shit about the game
Dota 2 is the best game and it's really obvious for all the reasons grubby mentioned. Just need a tougher skin to cope with the moba player's baby rage. All of them have this issue.
Dota is amazing and so well thought through. Still because of the toxic community I stopped playing.
Nice ovewview of Dota, I personally take it as standard...
Many of these sound amazing but: if Overwatch review works well, why is the Dota 2 community still so toxic? Is it just that it would be even worse without?
Their features are incredible but navigating it for newcomers is super overbearing I reckon
LOL Client is trash, felt like playing a game that you used Keygen for
If they can make a game better than StarCraft 2,that would be great. It's their goal, isn't it?
it is as if the boss loving and playing the game incentivizes the developers to make a good game :).
Since when does Grubby have to read from a script?
Helps to clean up the start a bit so I can do it in one take. I know you can tell, a bit, but I don't mind. I like to be prepared for some of these (without spending an hour rehearsing the start)
yea dota client is top tier. everytime i play lelics CoH 2 i wanna kms after a few tries xd
Random Linkin Park reference? 😅
It's never random for me I wub them
Love me some dota 2 glazing
The dota 2 peer review thing is not new. League actually has it since 2012, it was called the summoner's tribunal. But it sucked because League players would all just say yes to punish everyone.. It got replaced by actual support systems, which is infinitely better.
1 tribunal sucks is only a chat log without regulation and machine learning
2 league behavior system is trash people troll and go afk and the game does nothing, i have played fucking yuumi jungle afk several times and never go punish,
the only thing league punishes are the idiots that run down under tower 20 times in a row
3 dota behavior score affects matchmaking this generate a island effect that makes trolls play with and vs trolls this punish this behavior in long run, it takes 1 day for get rid of a ban or play 5 games to get out of low priority but for get you behavior score back from the 3000 to 12000 is gona take you fucking weeks because you get like 2k behavior score in 15 Games WITHOU BEING REPORTED, and you are gona play like 50 games with human toxic trash oh it you keep being toxic you drop from 3k behavior score and you can’t play ranked.
low behavior score punish toxic behavior making players have large q for a game and making them play toxics with toxics.
you want a behavior system to improve matchmaking and punish bad people like dota
you don’t want a behavior system that only bans people for using chat( i have see people get banned for write to much or for stupid shit like saying kill bot) in game i a fucking multiplayer game( a social fucking game) that has 0 effect in the fucking matchmaking because a honor 5 can get a teammate honor 0 in the same fucking team.
If I remember correctly, the biggest issue with League's tribunal was that there was a reward (IP maybe? It's been a while) for completing cases if you voted with the majority. That's what led to people always voting to punish so they could complete as many cases as possible as fast as possible with the same vote as the majority. As far as I know, there is no reward for completing Overwatch cases, so there is no outside reason to blindly vote yes. Instead, Dota players complete Overwatch cases for the same reason as anything else we do: targeted spite.
LoL still doesn't have a way to preview skins or see the team's gold. It's been over 13 years... it's pathetic.
Definition of "too big to fail". Sigh.
Tekken 8 could learn from overwatch
Dota 2 is probably the best multiplayer game ever created. At least top 3
Hi Twitch!
Dota 2 is great, great QoL, great UI/UX, great features, great demo mode, it's great... on paper.
Actually playing Dota 2 though... eeeh, that's a tall order. Coop is 99% dead, the turn rates can be off putting for many people, and the games can really drag on.