That was the most righteous rant I've ever heard about the music industry. You should get a Grammy for that. But you have to give your acceptance speech with the most outrageous use of pitch correction possible.
When I saw "Silver Springs" I thought oh no! Not this performance because it's absolutely beautiful. This pitch correction here is the definition of insanity. Thank you for continuing to speak out about this!
The crux of the matter for me is that pitch correction is dehumanising, and in a deep way. It are human imperfections (vis a vis 'perfection") that lead to emergent properties like passion, anger, empathy, vulnerability. This is what makes humans connect, even over large spaces of time (for example great performances of Dowlands songs). Absolutely wonderful and amazing. All that is lost when the human voice is degraded to just a tonal keyboard, as Fil wonderfully put it.
The thing I will never understand about pitch correction or auto-tune is that - when you listen to it, it sounds worse than the original. These people are supposed to be audio experts. Why can't they hear it?
This is practically word for word an argument I had recently with a bass player who wanted to "fix" my vocals by removing all the vibrato. He thought vibrato was bad and it should be a flat line. I'm totally sending this video to a few people as mandatory training before we play again. Thank you for standing up for the singers who just want to express themselves through their voice. I agree you deserve a Grammy! ❤
I had a similar experience when I was auditioning for a band. I had a recommendation from a fairly well-known vocalist whom I sang with in the past. He said to the person who was interested in my singing "she has a great voice, practically perfect pitch with very little vibrato" which he thought was a great thing. Strange contemporary music does not like vibrato.
Garsh, when I started guitar and voice lessons, how I LONGED to be able to utilize vibrato. When I started taking piano lessons at age 10, I was disappointed that vibrato couldn't be applied. Yes, Fil deserves a Grammy!
This is getting so ridiculous what is happening in the industry now. I wish they would leave alone especially all the classic artists from the past. I want to hear their natural voices even if it isn't perfect & Stevie was pretty spot on by herself without any manipulation. I actually enjoy voices that are unique, have some flaws & are not pitch perfect.
I guess the industry doesn't believe in "If it isn't broken, don't fix it." Personally, I think it's all about money. I too prefer natural voices. Stevie was accurate on her own.
Peter Guralnick wrote a biography of Sam Phillips, (the founder of Sun Records in Memphis, TN). Sam Phillips was the first to record many artists, no matter what musical genre. He recorded everyone from B.B. King to Johnny Cash. Throughout the book, there are numerous references to SP saying things like: I don't care if they hit a wrong note, as long as it sounds good. (Not exact quote.) The book is available in e-format. It's over 700 pages, but a great and interesting read. I can imagine what his opinion of auto-tune and pitch correction would be.😫
I think it's safe to say that Sam Phillips had a pretty good ear for talent. Elvis, Cash, Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, Charlie Rich... He had a four-year run that would be an epic career for most producers. I don't know if Johnny Cash ever hit a perfect note but I know there's millions of people who could listen to him all day long.
Why people always defend the over use of autotune and pitch correction, is beyond me. I guess if you never had the privilege of appreciating the human voice prior to 1997, than you don't understand why people feel so passionately against it. It does nothing at all to enhance the music.
Think beyond just music. More and more over the years we seem to be gravitating toward fake everything. Fake music, fake foods, even when it comes to peoples' bodies. I dread to think what things will be like in 25 or 50 years.
These are the same idiots who can't understand why people might prefer the original black and white versions of old movies and photos instead of the artificially colourized versions.
It's the same thing with quantizing (i.e. - aligning everything to the grid rhythmically). It makes the music difficult to connect with because we know that deep down no human can play perfectly on the beat like that. And nor should they. Push and pull is interesting! I listen to a lot of mixing and recording podcasts. The mix engineers constantly defend the use of heavy editing. They've all just accepted it because it's the "industry standard." But that's utter nonsense. The only reason it's the industry standard is because people like these mix engineers keep willingly going along with it. I can't tell if: 1) they're lying to themselves because to accept the reality of what they're promoting is too unpleasant 2) they genuinely can't feel why music that's too perfect sucks I know that #2 is probably true of many average music listeners. If you've only heard music in the last 20 years, you may have only heard technical perfection. Your ears and brain have become pre-conditioned to think this is what great musicians playing in a room actually sounds like. But of course, that's ridiculous. Just go see a symphony or step out on a street corner in New Orleans, and you'll hear world class musicians unedited. Even the very best musicians in the world don't play perfectly, and wouldn't even if you gave them unlimited takes. I, for one, am very tired of people who are deeply invested in over-editing trying to gaslight the rest of us into liking it.
So, being almost a perfect singer isn't perfect enough that it has to be pitch corrected? That is stupid! By auto tuning and pitch correcting singers voices, they're taking away all the feelings and emotions that make their songs beautiful! It just doesn't make sense to me. It was an excellent analysis, thank you Fil!
Maybe singers need to write it into their recording contracts. “You don’t mess with my voice in any way shape or form unless you have my permission”. It’s like “correcting” the color on a painter’s painting. It just isn’t done. Just because you’re able to digitally mess with something doesn’t mean you have to. This is insulting!
I watch a LOT of videos like yours, Fil, and one argument I would NEVER make about you is that you just don’t like pitch correction and so you whine about it. Your analyses are spot on, and you are consistently fair in your discussions. I have never gotten the impression that you simply don’t like modern music.
Hi Fil, I have always loved and adored Stevie Nicks and her voice! Edge of Seventeen is one of my all time favorite songs… her style and vocal delivery is simply amazing. The beauty of her voice is the expression she brings to the songs. Stevie is one of the all time great and iconic female pop/rock singers who does not need any pitch correction. She needs to be appreciated for her unmistakable voice and talent. Thank you for a great analysis video and look at Stevie Nicks! Awesome Job. Debbie☮️
If artists want to use this technology, I have no quarrel. However, when this technology is retrofitted to older performances of my life - without a disclaimer, these criminal “sound engineers” corrupting the work of their counterparts decades before have committed fraud by placing this remix in an archival video and presenting it as a genuine music video/live performance of the past. These butchers in the booth must be condemned and sued for this fraud. If they want to do this they must warn the consumer they are altering the art itself, making it a knock-off and presenting for consumption as if it were the original approved work of the artist in studio or live. This is by definition fraudulent. Good grief. They must warn the consumer this is ab artificial reinvention and no longer the music recorded live or in studio, produced and released for consumption.
Hey Fil: This case is more or less the same as your video about Randy Meisner’s pitch correction on “Take It to the Limit”. In other words, pitch correction is being applied to vocals that don’t need pitch correction. It’s as if record producers think that people love auto-tuning and want to hear it on everything, especially contemporary Pop. But you can clearly see that the vast majority of people DON’T like auto-tune and pitch correction. On current Spotify playlists, 90 percent of the music people are listening to is music that is 30 years old, or even older. That means that people are listening to, for example, Fleetwood Mac, The Eagles, The Doobie Brothers, Led Zeppelin and The Doors at a rate of 10 to one over the likes of Cardi B, Rihanna, Dua Lipa, Shakira and The Jonas Brothers. So why is that? Because a lot of the vocals among today’s artists are over-produced, auto-tuned and sound mechanical. I’m a fairly prolific songwriter, and I invariably enlist the talents of very good female vocalists for three reasons: I compose songs that are out of my vocal range; their voices have a quality that fit my songs; and they can sing on key and in tune. I would NEVER hire a vocalist who can’t stay on pitch and then monkey around trying to auto-tune her voice. There are plenty of male and female vocalists out there who can sing flawlessly, so why on Earth are today’s record executives and producers trying to make Pop stars out of people who can’t sing? What in the heck is going on here? I don’t get it.
Thanks for bringing attention to the problems with tone/pitch correction. It gets me very angry that anyone would mess with the perfection of Freddie Mercury’s voice. And other artists also.
Love your reference to Spinal Tap. I don't understand why pitch correction is necessary for great unique voices. I have always loved live bands in clubs where you can hear real art. Thank you, Fil for this interesting analysis!
Music from our youth can bring a place and time back to us so vividly. We loved our music because we felt the music, and the voice, and related to the lyrics through the emotions in the voice. The songs were deeply personal to us and we made sacrifices to afford the records, and concert tickets, with no regrets. I'm at a loss as to who does such sacrilege and why it's not illegal.
the untampered version shows Nick's singing like a beautiful, subtly warbling songbird...listen to nature..the trill of the birds ain't NEVER "on tne line." They really f...ked her unique sound up here.....love you so much Wings of Pegasus....
If by 'the music you like isn't popular any more' means music with vocals that haven't been altered, then I'm right there with you. If the Fil critic is in love with autotuned and pitch-corrected voices they can have them. A friend I talk to online nearly daily and I discuss mainly music. While she also appreciates what she calls 'raw' vocals, she also likes a lot of music with loads of autotune on the vocals. I discovered this in the oddest manner. We are always showing each other music the other may not have heard before. I've known her for about a year and a half. I noticed early on that it seemed as if all the new-to-me artists she was showing me music for were from the 2000s and I noticed they all had a similar vocal quality. I asked her what that vocal quality was and she said she didn't know. As it happened, I would start to enjoy the melody/instrumentation/production, then the singer would open his mouth and I was immediately turned off. After this happened several times, I wondered how they all made different sounding music, yet sang almost alike. They seemed almost interchangeable in that regard. I was being stupid. They were all heavily autotuned. :D So, there is the story of how I first learned that I hate autotune. My ears told me. 🙃
The quality of popular music has dropped off steeply over the past 25 years, in my opinion. I wasn't even a 90s fan, but I'll admit there was still a lot more good stuff around then than there is now, though again, I feel as if the downward trend in quality had already started the 90s. But yes, the 2000s stuff has a sameness and a blandness about it, then we have rap crap...
I have to agree in large part with you! I adore the music of the 60s, 70s and 80s overall, and a lesser extent, the 90s. Then, it drops off pretty dramatically! @@toby9999
Fil, I love your Christopher Guest imitation from Spinal Tap, "But it's not on the lines," I agree, what is the purpose of removing the lovely human quality of Stevie Nicks' voice?
Bad enough we have to color In the lines, now we must sing On the lines! John Baldry and Fleetwood Mac performed at the first concert I ever went to. There was a blackout during the the Fleetwood Mac performance and Mick Fleetwood did a lengthy drum solo. Wild!
I wonder if they are pitch correcting old recordings so the modern recordings don't contrast as much and young people will eventually never know what real singing sounds like.
The notion that one can create new content by altering the original vocal performance in a detrimental way is nothing more than greed. Sadly by doing this ad nauseum the labels have also conditioned younger audiences to expect this as the norm not knowing that human vocal variation is a desirable thing
Suggestion for Halloween: An analysis of Bobby (Boris) Pickett singing "The Monster Mash" as well as one of his "serious" performances such as "Graduation Day."
"It's not on the line" because she's not a robot. The artists may have signed their rights away, as you say Fil, unfortunately. But I think they still could speak out against all this "correction". It's their artwork at stake---they must care that someday soon no-one will know and love how they really sounded.
There’s always the possibility of a strike. How much do they care about preserving the integrity of their craft? I wonder if the labels are going to release originals un-“corrected”, and charge more for them like organic foods.
The thing I love about your analysis of this is that it gives me hope that my feeling that everything has become dulled and un-hearable by my ear might not be due to that alone. I have a hearing loss, and some of the songs I've always loved just sound so much less to me now. It's almost depressing. To know I am actually being messed with and it's not really just the way things are going to be from now on cheers me up. I would hope that the original recordings of these "remasters" are still available and someday could show up on here as "restored". FFS, Fleetwood Mac, though. Of all the bands that don't need it.
@catserver8577 " would hope that the original recordings of these "remasters" are still available" You might be able to find some of them at the thrift stores.
Could not believe it when I saw that this was about Fleetwood Mac and after the fact pitch correction. Someone should be preventing this madness! Thanks for trying, Fil.
Excellent presentation of your opinion of voice manipulation, and I agree, her real voice is of course perfection. This will not apply to every singer, but her voice never needed mechanical assistance. Your knowledge of music is always amazing, thanks for sharing your expertise!!💫
I saw Fleetwood Mac live in 2015, and Stevie sounded great live. Some of the keys of the songs might have been lowered from the original, but she could still sing them like no other.
Hi Fil, thanks a lot for this Analysis Video on Stevie Nicks. Most recently, you've introduced a couple of these cool reviews on odd and superfluous Pitch Correction. It's hard to understand, why unique singers like LP and immortals such as Robert Plant and Stevie Nicks seem to have discreetly resorted to plug-ins. Are they turning into their software's Appendix? Some time ago Ian Gillan mentioned, he simply couldn't sing some of the stuff he used to vocalise easily when he was younger. What a great attitude!
Pitch correction and auto tune are the music companies attempt tp market inferior musicians to the public. You are correct in that unless you self release the music, the music companies do whatever they want . My son is a musician and self releases his(duo) music.
Fil, can't thank you enough for your insightful presentations. Been going to concerts since 1968, at least I've got memories, and those, they can't take away or "remaster"! I do my best to "carry your soapbox" in this uphill battle exposing voice manipulation. Your efforts remind me of Winston Churchill's speech to the House of Commons on 4 June 1940(of course, not to diminish the gravity of the situation in 1940!). Keep-up the Good Fight Fil...
It was interesting to see the comparison of both vocals on the pitch monitor and agree with you to allow the voice to be the instrument that it is. 😊🎸🎵
Words of encouragement. Please don't let negativity ruin your spirit. I love watching your videos and you seem down in this one because of negative input. Yes, we as artists love positive feedback and we thrive on pleasing our audience. But you are spot on. If fabulous artists are going to be pitch corrected, eventually, we will only have AI singers because that seems to be the direction we are going if we can't allow a fabulous voice to be heard from its natural source. I missed your smile in this video. Prayers that you can rise above the negative clutter.
What a difference in the sound. I feel like this has to be about money somehow, because it is certainly not about art. This is a great example to illustrate your point. I see the watchtowers of the doom of real artistry in your pitch monitoring software.
The direction that music seems to be headed in is very sad...makes me happy that I am older and I have had the privilege to listen to so much great music,both live and recorded...
No. Marketing people making use of pretty faces and giving them a sound that fits whether they can sing or not. In old days, film movies and records would use actors and faces who couldn't sing and have a session singer make the recording with the face miming. Christopher Plummer in Sound of Music and Audrey Hepburn in ???, vs Julie Andrews
Thank you for covering this one, well agreed with your rant! I'm someone who listened to this live show for the first time last year, and thought I was going crazy for hearing auto-tune on a couple of tracks. I hadn't picked up on it in this particular song, it was much more apparent to me on a couple of McVie's tracks ("Everywhere" and "Songbird") -- another fantastic vocalist who probably didn't need the "help"! It really does take some of the magic away, and I don't necessarily blame the artist if it was done after the fact and without their say. It does make me more grateful there's such a wealth of authentic live recordings here on UA-cam, if this is the kind of recording that labels are going to put out thinking that audiences won't notice.
Given the analysis made, I have decided to keep my old LP’s and CD’s and listen to them on ”outdated” equipment, maybe rip to HD, rather than using the conveniece of Spotify or UA-cam. You’re pointing at something I have gradually noticed on re-releases but not been able to figure out. It’s very obvious with Stevie Nicks where her vocal and way of singing is why I became a great fan of her in the first place.
Thanks for your analysis on the most pointless use of pitch correction. I wouldn't call it a rant because you're being objective and you have the proof to back up what you're saying. You clearly showed how applying pitch correction to Stevie Nicks' vocals was pointless because she was already accurate pitch-wise. I think you proved the old adage "If it isn't broken, don't fix it." I also think what was done to Stevie's vocals was sacrilege! Thanks for being true to yourself and to the music, Fil!
I had an 8th grade music teacher that told us that the human voice is the most perfect instrument in that it can fluidly move from one note to another compared to an instrument that in effect has to "jump" from one note to the next. Your right...a voice is an instrument of its own...it is not a keyboard.
Stevie Nicks' unique voice made her an international superstar decades ago. Why is a pitch- "corrected" recording on Fleetwood Mac's official channel? 😳🤬
So true. The soap opera on stage makes this dehumanization even more egregious. The history of this song not making it on the original album and then never sung live has built up inside her and she is letting it all out singing from the heart. Hard to believe that she’d say but it’s not on the line and prefer the more “accurate “ version.
It actually was performed live before - in 1977, it just didn't make the album cut. There's a video of it here on UA-cam. The performance is quite a contrast to the '97 one. I think she let go and let it all out to him as she matured with age.
I'd love to see you do a pitch analysis video on tremelo versus vibrato in the singing voice, and how some of the great singers use it well (e.g., Randy Meisner, Dennis DeYoung, Nancy Wilson, Chris Cornell) and poorly (e.g., Stevie Nicks)
Brilliant, Fil !!! This should be on a t-shirt, poster, or pinned to the top of the comments, "A live performances has to be allowed to be what it is and stay what it was when it happened". Exactly!!!
Another great video, and I continue to learn form your website! I totally agree with you on the very negative impact of auto tune. And artists should have the control over the alteration of their product. If they do not currently, then they should create a class action law suit over this very issue. I always enjoy your evaluation videos!
Hello Fil. Nsync has a new song out for the Trolls movie. The first time I listened to it I could not tell if it was Justin or JC singing what lines. So I found an acapella version on UA-cam and played it on my Bose speaker and held up that pitch monitor app to the speaker. I could hear each member's voice clearly but it is heavily auto tuned. But I already knew that. I still love the song and very happy that they reunited. Cheers!
Makes me think of Neil Young who was about conveying spirit and essence. He has often been criticized for his all around sounds. Neil spoke of losing the spirit of the song by getting better technically.
Back in 89, a DAW looked like the cockpit of a 747?.😊 Got hired ta do a HH track for an "egghead" JUST HI HAT ??? Never seen digital gear so I was amazed watchin my trk go down on a screen.When played back, he used a "snap to rule" function takin ALL the FEEEEEL out of it? The whole tune felt stiff, killed the dynamic flow as well.?.100$ for 1.5 hrs and I was hired for my rep in ORD for my great timing? SHEEESH?" Eggheads" popular name for musicians with ZERO R brain....ALL left? VERY low emotional quotient..I KNEW we were in trouble. Then came the vocoder and that nailed the coffin SHUT.
This kinda reminds me of when drum machines first came in and we had to move the beats from "perfect" to a little bit off to make it sound "right," or "more human."
I have not been following all the comments on your recent videos so maybe I am repeating what others have already said. What amazes me is the fact that some people claim they can't hear a difference. To me it sticks out like a sore thumb. So scary. Another point: We all know the Beatle recordings were remastered in 2009. I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to the pitch correction question - one way or the other. Maybe 2009 was too early. Do any of you out there have an answer ? Fil, have you had a chance to have a go at them? The vocals sound good to me. Here's keeping my fingers crossed.
Last year, on a whim I bought a modern CD, threw it into my player and as each track started all I could think was 'Well this has been auto-tuned' at the end of the album I took the CD out of the player and threw it into the trash bin. The chances of me buying any new CDs is zero. Thank goodness most of my music collection is from pre auto-tuning, pre re-mastering days. I can spot Auto-tuning/pitch correction a mile off and it really jars. Please, please tell me no-one has attempted to pitch correct Lou Reed.
Well! What you can do. Is to buy old records = from the time when the first Cd started to been produced in the beginning of the 90's. if you like to play music whit a better sound then Spotify. I do it all the time. Just a tips. Cheers mate. Becouse I do agree on your first point.
There is modern music being released that doesn't use pitch correction by the way, but you have to likely delve into more underground artists. If you buy something produced to be popular in current era mainstream media, prepare for auto-tuned vocals!
Undetectable pitch correction will probably come soon enough. AI seems suited to that sort of task... you develop one AI to detect pitch correction, and another to pitch correct (without being detected). And that adversarial relationship creates a feedback loop that pushes each to be increasingly better, until eventually the pitch corrector is beyond human ability to spot.
You're gonna start a cult at this point, Fil 😂 I agree with your rants so much that I want to do something about it. We need to stop these idiotic producers ruining these wonderful voices of history.
What will happen eventually is recorded music will be so corrected that when the artist goes on tour, people will be so disappointed with the performance, the live show will then end up being more about the show (if it hasn't already) than the actual singing performance.
Quite honestly they should leave old music alone. Everyone fell in love with the songs and artists as they were!!! The corrections are just obvious. Stevie became the rock goddess that she is Because of her Unique Voice!!! As my final statement, life isn't perfect. This seems to fall in line with the FakeBook and other social media avenues portraying illusions of perfection.
"Yeah, but it's not on the lines" was a great bit, Fil. It reminded me of a "Who's On First" quality of comedy. So I'm going to say it: Fil belongs in the same sentence as Laurel and Hardy at least once in his life. Well done!!!
I look on this in similar fashion to the way I look on using enhancing drugs in athletic performance. It is basically cheating to get something you lack the real talent to get, or have not been willing to work hard enough to get legitimately.
The original Stevie Nicks recording is superior in it's quality and feeling.....I wish engineers would leave excellent artists alone ! Years ago Steely Dan used to record hundreds of takes to 'engineer' their version of the ideal, today nothing is trustworthy or sacred....keep highlighting manipulated artists Fil 👍
That was the most righteous rant I've ever heard about the music industry.
You should get a Grammy for that.
But you have to give your acceptance speech with the most outrageous use of pitch correction possible.
LOL
Fil definitely deserves an award for his work!🏆
When I saw "Silver Springs" I thought oh no! Not this performance because it's absolutely beautiful. This pitch correction here is the definition of insanity. Thank you for continuing to speak out about this!
The crux of the matter for me is that pitch correction is dehumanising, and in a deep way. It are human imperfections (vis a vis 'perfection") that lead to emergent properties like passion, anger, empathy, vulnerability. This is what makes humans connect, even over large spaces of time (for example great performances of Dowlands songs). Absolutely wonderful and amazing. All that is lost when the human voice is degraded to just a tonal keyboard, as Fil wonderfully put it.
I said the same sentiment - pitch correction takes out the human emotion. Ugh.
Not to mention, how can any of us mere mortals sing along with a recorded song if we do not have pitch-corrected voices?
I so agree with you!
Wow--well said.
Yes- the digitized perfect on the lines version sounds flat. The real vocal always sounds brighter & prettier than the perfect digital sound .
8:13 YES! YES! YES! YES!
“Allow the voice to be the instrument that it is”
We need to stop the madness!
I think whoever chose to apply pitch correction to Stevie Nicks should hand in their headphones and be banned from going near a studio ever again.
Autotune and pitch correction don't make bad singers sound good but they do make good singers sound bad.
The thing I will never understand about pitch correction or auto-tune is that - when you listen to it, it sounds worse than the original. These people are supposed to be audio experts. Why can't they hear it?
This is practically word for word an argument I had recently with a bass player who wanted to "fix" my vocals by removing all the vibrato. He thought vibrato was bad and it should be a flat line. I'm totally sending this video to a few people as mandatory training before we play again. Thank you for standing up for the singers who just want to express themselves through their voice. I agree you deserve a Grammy! ❤
I had a similar experience when I was auditioning for a band. I had a recommendation from a fairly well-known vocalist whom I sang with in the past. He said to the person who was interested in my singing "she has a great voice, practically perfect pitch with very little vibrato" which he thought was a great thing. Strange contemporary music does not like vibrato.
Garsh, when I started guitar and voice lessons, how I LONGED to be able to utilize vibrato. When I started taking piano lessons at age 10, I was disappointed that vibrato couldn't be applied. Yes, Fil deserves a Grammy!
Good for you!!!
"BUT IT'S NOT ON THE LINE!" LOL
This is getting so ridiculous what is happening in the industry now. I wish they would leave alone especially all the classic artists from the past. I want to hear their natural voices even if it isn't perfect & Stevie was pretty spot on by herself without any manipulation. I actually enjoy voices that are unique, have some flaws & are not pitch perfect.
The extinction of beauty in the name of flat lines
I guess the industry doesn't believe in "If it isn't broken, don't fix it." Personally, I think it's all about money. I too prefer natural voices. Stevie was accurate on her own.
@@claptonhousecat8092 In the name of flat lines--that sounds like death to me. Yikes!
Peter Guralnick wrote a biography of Sam Phillips, (the founder of Sun Records in Memphis, TN). Sam Phillips was the first to record many artists, no matter what musical genre. He recorded everyone from B.B. King to Johnny Cash.
Throughout the book, there are numerous references to SP saying things like: I don't care if they hit a wrong note, as long as it sounds good. (Not exact quote.) The book is available in e-format. It's over 700 pages, but a great and interesting read. I can imagine what his opinion of auto-tune and pitch correction would be.😫
I think it's safe to say that Sam Phillips had a pretty good ear for talent. Elvis, Cash, Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, Charlie Rich... He had a four-year run that would be an epic career for most producers. I don't know if Johnny Cash ever hit a perfect note but I know there's millions of people who could listen to him all day long.
Why people always defend the over use of autotune and pitch correction, is beyond me. I guess if you never had the privilege of appreciating the human voice prior to 1997, than you don't understand why people feel so passionately against it. It does nothing at all to enhance the music.
Think beyond just music. More and more over the years we seem to be gravitating toward fake everything. Fake music, fake foods, even when it comes to peoples' bodies. I dread to think what things will be like in 25 or 50 years.
These are the same idiots who can't understand why people might prefer the original black and white versions of old movies and photos instead of the artificially colourized versions.
I bet they're the same people who welcome the use of AI in the writing and acting fields. Sad indeed.
It’s a Sign of The Times, everyone has to sound the same! Conform, fit into a “mold!” Soon, everything will sound, computer generated!
It's the same thing with quantizing (i.e. - aligning everything to the grid rhythmically). It makes the music difficult to connect with because we know that deep down no human can play perfectly on the beat like that. And nor should they. Push and pull is interesting!
I listen to a lot of mixing and recording podcasts. The mix engineers constantly defend the use of heavy editing. They've all just accepted it because it's the "industry standard." But that's utter nonsense. The only reason it's the industry standard is because people like these mix engineers keep willingly going along with it.
I can't tell if:
1) they're lying to themselves because to accept the reality of what they're promoting is too unpleasant
2) they genuinely can't feel why music that's too perfect sucks
I know that #2 is probably true of many average music listeners. If you've only heard music in the last 20 years, you may have only heard technical perfection. Your ears and brain have become pre-conditioned to think this is what great musicians playing in a room actually sounds like. But of course, that's ridiculous. Just go see a symphony or step out on a street corner in New Orleans, and you'll hear world class musicians unedited. Even the very best musicians in the world don't play perfectly, and wouldn't even if you gave them unlimited takes.
I, for one, am very tired of people who are deeply invested in over-editing trying to gaslight the rest of us into liking it.
So, being almost a perfect singer isn't perfect enough that it has to be pitch corrected? That is stupid! By auto tuning and pitch correcting singers voices, they're taking away all the feelings and emotions that make their songs beautiful! It just doesn't make sense to me. It was an excellent analysis, thank you Fil!
Maybe singers need to write it into their recording contracts. “You don’t mess with my voice in any way shape or form unless you have my permission”. It’s like “correcting” the color on a painter’s painting. It just isn’t done. Just because you’re able to digitally mess with something doesn’t mean you have to. This is insulting!
I watch a LOT of videos like yours, Fil, and one argument I would NEVER make about you is that you just don’t like pitch correction and so you whine about it. Your analyses are spot on, and you are consistently fair in your discussions. I have never gotten the impression that you simply don’t like modern music.
Hi Fil,
I have always loved and adored Stevie Nicks and her voice! Edge of Seventeen is one of my all time favorite songs… her style and vocal delivery is simply amazing. The beauty of her voice is the expression she brings to the songs. Stevie is one of the all time great and iconic female pop/rock singers who does not need any pitch correction. She needs to be appreciated for her unmistakable voice and talent. Thank you for a great analysis video and look at Stevie Nicks! Awesome Job. Debbie☮️
If artists want to use this technology, I have no quarrel. However, when this technology is retrofitted to older performances of my life - without a disclaimer, these criminal “sound engineers” corrupting the work of their counterparts decades before have committed fraud by placing this remix in an archival video and presenting it as a genuine music video/live performance of the past.
These butchers in the booth must be condemned and sued for this fraud. If they want to do this they must warn the consumer they are altering the art itself, making it a knock-off and presenting for consumption as if it were the original approved work of the artist in studio or live. This is by definition fraudulent. Good grief. They must warn the consumer this is ab artificial reinvention and no longer the music recorded live or in studio, produced and released for consumption.
Hey Fil: This case is more or less the same as your video about Randy Meisner’s pitch correction on “Take It to the Limit”. In other words, pitch correction is being applied to vocals that don’t need pitch correction. It’s as if record producers think that people love auto-tuning and want to hear it on everything, especially contemporary Pop. But you can clearly see that the vast majority of people DON’T like auto-tune and pitch correction. On current Spotify playlists, 90 percent of the music people are listening to is music that is 30 years old, or even older. That means that people are listening to, for example, Fleetwood Mac, The Eagles, The Doobie Brothers, Led Zeppelin and The Doors at a rate of 10 to one over the likes of Cardi B, Rihanna, Dua Lipa, Shakira and The Jonas Brothers. So why is that? Because a lot of the vocals among today’s artists are over-produced, auto-tuned and sound mechanical. I’m a fairly prolific songwriter, and I invariably enlist the talents of very good female vocalists for three reasons: I compose songs that are out of my vocal range; their voices have a quality that fit my songs; and they can sing on key and in tune. I would NEVER hire a vocalist who can’t stay on pitch and then monkey around trying to auto-tune her voice. There are plenty of male and female vocalists out there who can sing flawlessly, so why on Earth are today’s record executives and producers trying to make Pop stars out of people who can’t sing? What in the heck is going on here? I don’t get it.
Thanks for bringing attention to the problems with tone/pitch correction. It gets me very angry that anyone would mess with the perfection of Freddie Mercury’s voice. And other artists also.
Love your reference to Spinal Tap. I don't understand why pitch correction is necessary for great unique voices. I have always loved live bands in clubs where you can hear real art. Thank you, Fil for this interesting analysis!
Pitch correcting Stevie Nicks is like taking a paint brush to the Mona Lisa and colour correcting it. This is madness!
❤ Yes! Like knocking down the ridges and texture of an oil painting.
I appreciate your rants Fil, before your channel, never knew why I didn't enjoy music like I used to.
Well said, Berry!
Music from our youth can bring a place and time back to us so vividly. We loved our music because we felt the music, and the voice, and related to the lyrics through the emotions in the voice. The songs were deeply personal to us and we made sacrifices to afford the records, and concert tickets, with no regrets. I'm at a loss as to who does such sacrilege and why it's not illegal.
the untampered version shows Nick's singing like a beautiful, subtly warbling songbird...listen to nature..the trill of the birds ain't NEVER "on tne line." They really f...ked her unique sound up here.....love you so much Wings of Pegasus....
I am curious how artists feel about their voices being pitch corrected years after the original.
"Yeh... But it's not on the lines".
😂So good.
💕 FIL! Omg! You did it AGAIN! One of my most favourites of ALL!
💋💕THANK YOU! 💕💋 Also, love this conversation!
If by 'the music you like isn't popular any more' means music with vocals that haven't been altered, then I'm right there with you. If the Fil critic is in love with autotuned and pitch-corrected voices they can have them.
A friend I talk to online nearly daily and I discuss mainly music. While she also appreciates what she calls 'raw' vocals, she also likes a lot of music with loads of autotune on the vocals. I discovered this in the oddest manner.
We are always showing each other music the other may not have heard before. I've known her for about a year and a half. I noticed early on that it seemed as if all the new-to-me artists she was showing me music for were from the 2000s and I noticed they all had a similar vocal quality. I asked her what that vocal quality was and she said she didn't know. As it happened, I would start to enjoy the melody/instrumentation/production, then the singer would open his mouth and I was immediately turned off. After this happened several times, I wondered how they all made different sounding music, yet sang almost alike. They seemed almost interchangeable in that regard. I was being stupid. They were all heavily autotuned. :D
So, there is the story of how I first learned that I hate autotune. My ears told me. 🙃
The quality of popular music has dropped off steeply over the past 25 years, in my opinion. I wasn't even a 90s fan, but I'll admit there was still a lot more good stuff around then than there is now, though again, I feel as if the downward trend in quality had already started the 90s. But yes, the 2000s stuff has a sameness and a blandness about it, then we have rap crap...
I have to agree in large part with you! I adore the music of the 60s, 70s and 80s overall, and a lesser extent, the 90s. Then, it drops off pretty dramatically! @@toby9999
thank goodness all my collection are original releases
Fil, I love your Christopher Guest imitation from Spinal Tap, "But it's not on the lines," I agree, what is the purpose of removing the lovely human quality of Stevie Nicks' voice?
Bad enough we have to color In the lines, now we must sing On the lines! John Baldry and Fleetwood Mac performed at the first concert I ever went to. There was a blackout during the the Fleetwood Mac performance and Mick Fleetwood did a lengthy drum solo. Wild!
I wonder if they are pitch correcting old recordings so the modern recordings don't contrast as much and young people will eventually never know what real singing sounds like.
The notion that one can create new content by altering the original vocal performance in a detrimental way is nothing more than greed. Sadly by doing this ad nauseum the labels have also conditioned younger audiences to expect this as the norm not knowing that human vocal variation is a desirable thing
@716janice
Can they get a new copyright by just pitch-correcting?
Suggestion for Halloween: An analysis of Bobby (Boris) Pickett singing "The Monster Mash" as well as one of his "serious" performances such as "Graduation Day."
I'm glad I have the original DVD of this Concert before they remastered it.
"It's not on the line" because she's not a robot.
The artists may have signed their rights away, as you say Fil, unfortunately. But I think they still could speak out against all this "correction".
It's their artwork at stake---they must care that someday soon no-one will know and love how they really sounded.
There’s always the possibility of a strike. How much do they care about preserving the integrity of their craft?
I wonder if the labels are going to release originals un-“corrected”, and charge more for them like organic foods.
@@juliezug9855Hi Julie!
That's a great analogy.
Those who have old "organic" recordings should hang on to them!
Over processing can create imperfection. Not my cup of tea when listening to music. Nothing beats real and natural.
All the expression in her voice was taken out it sounded like. The little quiver she has in her voice was also almost also taken away.
The thing I love about your analysis of this is that it gives me hope that my feeling that everything has become dulled and un-hearable by my ear might not be due to that alone. I have a hearing loss, and some of the songs I've always loved just sound so much less to me now. It's almost depressing. To know I am actually being messed with and it's not really just the way things are going to be from now on cheers me up. I would hope that the original recordings of these "remasters" are still available and someday could show up on here as "restored". FFS, Fleetwood Mac, though. Of all the bands that don't need it.
@catserver8577 " would hope that the original recordings of these "remasters" are still available" You might be able to find some of them at the thrift stores.
@@Psalm1267 Possibly, but I would suspect any live ones would be bootlegs. I have the live concert from Tango in the Night, on VHS though.
Could not believe it when I saw that this was about Fleetwood Mac and after the fact pitch correction. Someone should be preventing this madness! Thanks for trying, Fil.
I completley agree with your rant!! They are taking the character and soul out of the voice
Excellent presentation of your opinion of voice manipulation, and I agree, her real voice is of course perfection. This will not apply to every singer, but her voice never needed mechanical assistance.
Your knowledge of music is always amazing, thanks for sharing your expertise!!💫
I saw Fleetwood Mac live in 2015, and Stevie sounded great live. Some of the keys of the songs might have been lowered from the original, but she could still sing them like no other.
Unique voices are great because it is unique. Why session players who are vocalists are in demand like Glenn C. was in his prime.
Hi Fil, thanks a lot for this Analysis Video on Stevie Nicks.
Most recently, you've introduced a couple of these cool reviews on odd and superfluous Pitch Correction.
It's hard to understand, why unique singers like LP and immortals such as Robert Plant and Stevie Nicks seem to have discreetly resorted to plug-ins.
Are they turning into their software's Appendix?
Some time ago Ian Gillan mentioned, he simply couldn't sing some of the stuff he used to vocalise easily when he was younger.
What a great attitude!
Pitch correction and auto tune are the music companies attempt tp market inferior musicians to the public. You are correct in that unless you self release the music, the music companies do whatever they want . My son is a musician and self releases his(duo) music.
Fil, can't thank you enough for your insightful presentations. Been going to concerts since 1968, at least I've got memories, and those, they can't take away or "remaster"!
I do my best to "carry your soapbox" in this uphill battle exposing voice manipulation. Your efforts remind me of Winston Churchill's speech to the House of Commons on 4 June 1940(of course, not to diminish the gravity of the situation in 1940!).
Keep-up the Good Fight Fil...
It was interesting to see the comparison of both vocals on the pitch monitor and agree with you to allow the voice to be the instrument that it is. 😊🎸🎵
Words of encouragement. Please don't let negativity ruin your spirit. I love watching your videos and you seem down in this one because of negative input. Yes, we as artists love positive feedback and we thrive on pleasing our audience. But you are spot on. If fabulous artists are going to be pitch corrected, eventually, we will only have AI singers because that seems to be the direction we are going if we can't allow a fabulous voice to be heard from its natural source. I missed your smile in this video. Prayers that you can rise above the negative clutter.
What a difference in the sound. I feel like this has to be about money somehow, because it is certainly not about art. This is a great example to illustrate your point. I see the watchtowers of the doom of real artistry in your pitch monitoring software.
The direction that music seems to be headed in is very sad...makes me happy that I am older and I have had the privilege to listen to so much great music,both live and recorded...
Only the mad scientists in the record industry would try to pitch correct an almost perfect voice.
No. Marketing people making use of pretty faces and giving them a sound that fits whether they can sing or not. In old days, film movies and records would use actors and faces who couldn't sing and have a session singer make the recording with the face miming. Christopher Plummer in Sound of Music and Audrey Hepburn in ???, vs Julie Andrews
Rant on Fil. The art/music is the artist not a computer interpretation of the human voice. Give me that old-time rock and roll.
Now i understand why the strikers in Hollywood are against Arificial Intelligence!
It's coming to that
Thank you for covering this one, well agreed with your rant! I'm someone who listened to this live show for the first time last year, and thought I was going crazy for hearing auto-tune on a couple of tracks. I hadn't picked up on it in this particular song, it was much more apparent to me on a couple of McVie's tracks ("Everywhere" and "Songbird") -- another fantastic vocalist who probably didn't need the "help"!
It really does take some of the magic away, and I don't necessarily blame the artist if it was done after the fact and without their say. It does make me more grateful there's such a wealth of authentic live recordings here on UA-cam, if this is the kind of recording that labels are going to put out thinking that audiences won't notice.
Thank you for doing these videos and explaining what is going on!
Fil, you are awesome. Thanks for all you do. I appreciate presentations like this, even tho it gets me all riled up.
Your ear is phenom dude beyond the waveforms dude. Why engineering with the big picture is a gift.
Your live experience is essential for any engineer.
Given the analysis made, I have decided to keep my old LP’s and CD’s and listen to them on ”outdated” equipment, maybe rip to HD, rather than using the conveniece of Spotify or UA-cam. You’re pointing at something I have gradually noticed on re-releases but not been able to figure out. It’s very obvious with Stevie Nicks where her vocal and way of singing is why I became a great fan of her in the first place.
Thanks for your analysis on the most pointless use of pitch correction. I wouldn't call it a rant because you're being objective and you have the proof to back up what you're saying. You clearly showed how applying pitch correction to Stevie Nicks' vocals was pointless because she was already accurate pitch-wise. I think you proved the old adage "If it isn't broken, don't fix it." I also think what was done to Stevie's vocals was sacrilege! Thanks for being true to yourself and to the music, Fil!
I appreciate your "rants" It shows how much you appreciate the human voice. It encourages me so much.
I had an 8th grade music teacher that told us that the human voice is the most perfect instrument in that it can fluidly move from one note to another compared to an instrument that in effect has to "jump" from one note to the next. Your right...a voice is an instrument of its own...it is not a keyboard.
So glad I bought this album when it came out. The original recordings are stunning. One of the best mixed live performances I've ever heard.
Thanks Fil, one of the most interesting aspects of your channel is the wide variety of music.
Stevie Nicks' unique voice made her an international superstar decades ago. Why is a pitch- "corrected" recording on Fleetwood Mac's official channel? 😳🤬
Have been a fan of Stevie for a long time Just got tickets to see her live again in February Will listen with different ears now Fil😊
So true. The soap opera on stage makes this dehumanization even more egregious. The history of this song not making it on the original album and then never sung live has built up inside her and she is letting it all out singing from the heart. Hard to believe that she’d say but it’s not on the line and prefer the more “accurate “ version.
It actually was performed live before - in 1977, it just didn't make the album cut. There's a video of it here on UA-cam. The performance is quite a contrast to the '97 one. I think she let go and let it all out to him as she matured with age.
@@Marhea74I should have said rarely
I'd love to see you do a pitch analysis video on tremelo versus vibrato in the singing voice, and how some of the great singers use it well (e.g., Randy Meisner, Dennis DeYoung, Nancy Wilson, Chris Cornell) and poorly (e.g., Stevie Nicks)
Brilliant, Fil !!! This should be on a t-shirt, poster, or pinned to the top of the comments, "A live performances has to be allowed to be what it is and stay what it was when it happened". Exactly!!!
So well explained. Even I understood what you meant. ❤️Rock BTW I’ve been listening to this song over and over since I learned about the background.
Another great video, and I continue to learn form your website! I totally agree with you on the very negative impact of auto tune. And artists should have the control over the alteration of their product. If they do not currently, then they should create a class action law suit over this very issue. I always enjoy your evaluation videos!
Hello Fil. Nsync has a new song out for the Trolls movie. The first time I listened to it I could not tell if it was Justin or JC singing what lines. So I found an acapella version on UA-cam and played it on my Bose speaker and held up that pitch monitor app to the speaker. I could hear each member's voice clearly but it is heavily auto tuned. But I already knew that. I still love the song and very happy that they reunited. Cheers!
Makes me think of Neil Young who was about conveying spirit and essence. He has often been criticized for his all around sounds. Neil spoke of losing the spirit of the song by getting better technically.
Back in 89, a DAW looked like the cockpit of a 747?.😊 Got hired ta do a HH track for an "egghead" JUST HI HAT ??? Never seen digital gear so I was amazed watchin my trk go down on a screen.When played back, he used a "snap to rule" function takin ALL the FEEEEEL out of it? The whole tune felt stiff, killed the dynamic flow as well.?.100$ for 1.5 hrs and I was hired for my rep in ORD for my great timing? SHEEESH?" Eggheads" popular name for musicians with ZERO R brain....ALL left? VERY low emotional quotient..I KNEW we were in trouble. Then came the vocoder and that nailed the coffin SHUT.
This kinda reminds me of when drum machines first came in and we had to move the beats from "perfect" to a little bit off to make it sound "right," or "more human."
The non-pitch-corrected sounds SO much better. Thanks for the comparison.
I have not been following all the comments on your recent videos so maybe I am repeating what others have already said. What amazes me is the fact that some people claim they can't hear a difference. To me it sticks out like a sore thumb. So scary. Another point: We all know the Beatle recordings were remastered in 2009. I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to the pitch correction question - one way or the other. Maybe 2009 was too early. Do any of you out there have an answer ? Fil, have you had a chance to have a go at them? The vocals sound good to me. Here's keeping my fingers crossed.
Last year, on a whim I bought a modern CD, threw it into my player and as each track started all I could think was 'Well this has been auto-tuned' at the end of the album I took the CD out of the player and threw it into the trash bin. The chances of me buying any new CDs is zero. Thank goodness most of my music collection is from pre auto-tuning, pre re-mastering days. I can spot Auto-tuning/pitch correction a mile off and it really jars. Please, please tell me no-one has attempted to pitch correct Lou Reed.
Well! What you can do. Is to buy old records = from the time when the first Cd started to been produced in the beginning of the 90's. if you like to play music whit a better sound then Spotify. I do it all the time.
Just a tips. Cheers mate. Becouse I do agree on your first point.
There is modern music being released that doesn't use pitch correction by the way, but you have to likely delve into more underground artists. If you buy something produced to be popular in current era mainstream media, prepare for auto-tuned vocals!
Yes! I can't thank you enough for sharing and standing for what's right!
Handmade Music vs. Machine, give me handmade anyday! I've never liked digitally remastered.
Undetectable pitch correction will probably come soon enough. AI seems suited to that sort of task... you develop one AI to detect pitch correction, and another to pitch correct (without being detected). And that adversarial relationship creates a feedback loop that pushes each to be increasingly better, until eventually the pitch corrector is beyond human ability to spot.
Maybe to Your ear lol
You're gonna start a cult at this point, Fil 😂
I agree with your rants so much that I want to do something about it. We need to stop these idiotic producers ruining these wonderful voices of history.
Great video Fil, thanks so much❤❤
What will happen eventually is recorded music will be so corrected that when the artist goes on tour, people will be so disappointed with the performance, the live show will then end up being more about the show (if it hasn't already) than the actual singing performance.
I wonder how long it's going to be before they figure out how to pitch-correct and make it undetectable? Add vibrato, etc?
I just don`t get it. It`s already "perfect" singing. You can`t make it better than it was.
This is incredibly maddening and I feel helpless to do anything about it!! My frustration is an 11. Love the Spinal tap like dialogue 😂
Fight the good fight Fil.
I'm wondering if any prominent music critics are making an issue of or criticizing the use of this sort of thing?
Gotcha, totally makes sense! I absolutely love ❤️ your work, absolutely knowledgeable and amazing 🤩
Quite honestly they should leave old music alone. Everyone fell in love with the songs and artists as they were!!! The corrections are just obvious. Stevie became the rock goddess that she is Because of her Unique Voice!!! As my final statement, life isn't perfect. This seems to fall in line with the FakeBook and other social media avenues portraying illusions of perfection.
"Yeah, but it's not on the lines" was a great bit, Fil. It reminded me of a "Who's On First" quality of comedy. So I'm going to say it: Fil belongs in the same sentence as Laurel and Hardy at least once in his life. Well done!!!
thanks Fil.....just want to say thank you..for challenging this insanity..you are a great singer yourself btw...
Sending this immediately to my sister. Hope her head doesn't explode! Ridiculous.
I look on this in similar fashion to the way I look on using enhancing drugs in athletic performance. It is basically cheating to get something you lack the real talent to get, or have not been willing to work hard enough to get legitimately.
And it sounds better without the pitch correction.
Your "this one goes to 11" analogy was perfect. ☺️
The spinal tap argument is priceless perfectly put many blessings Fil!!
Love your thoughts and views…. Thanks Phil
Stevie's 'remastered' voice reminds me of the voice synthesiser in a 1983 MG Maestro!
The original Stevie Nicks recording is superior in it's quality and feeling.....I wish engineers would leave excellent artists alone ! Years ago Steely Dan used to record hundreds of takes to 'engineer' their version of the ideal, today nothing is trustworthy or sacred....keep highlighting manipulated artists Fil 👍