I would argue that if someone was watching the stream live on UA-cam, but only caught 30-40 minutes of it. In many cases they would go back to it after it was finished and watch more of the vod. This doesn’t happen if you upload to a vod channel, because nobody is going to scroll through a 5 hour stream vid to find out where they stopped watching. If the video is automatically made into a vod, then that data on where they stopped watching is saved. And if enough live watchers click on the vod to finish watching it, that boosts it in the algorithm.
Theres a really good video on this from SpiffingBrit, these livestreams autoplay on peoples TVs at night. I leave my tv on at night and it always auto plays 5+ hour long videos, and you are asleep so the ads pay waaaaay more when they aren't skipped
Exactly, Ludwig completely misses the point of how the live stream on UA-cam help the vod get the push it need to even be picked up by the UA-cam algorithm. Even if most of them would not do crazy numbers they at least get the first boost to have a potential to, in a way uploading to a separate vod channel never would.
Not only that, but you can watch in 1.25 and 1.5x so you can eventually catch up. You can also pause, and rewatch anything at will. Also, as someone in a less developed country with lower internet speeds: I dont really know the reason but UA-cam never ever buffers even at lower speeds, while Twitch buffers all the time when connection speeds are low.
I have done this a bit and I'm sure others have, too, but the effect might not be that large. Still, incremental revenue is incremental revenue, and it's lost revenue if it goes unwatched because of the difficulty of navigating to a spot in a VOD, so your point probably stands.
Yeah and a lot of people sub on twitch to not deal with ads and barely watch streamers they aren't subbed to, thus making smaller streamers struggle to get new viewers
UA-cam Premium is a necessity for me, there is nothing more infuriating than ads blocking what you want to see. I’ve no issue with ones that show on the side of an article or something, but those that prevent you from viewing the content entirely should be criminal
I don’t agree with the ad take with Ludwig. It’s genuinely atrocious to watch twitch on mobile, I want to watch someone new, instantly hit with ads. I click on a streamer I like, instantly hit with ads. I close and reopen a streamer, still hit with ads. I just find it more enjoyable to watch a stream on UA-cam and have for sure more watch time just watching vods than watching livestreams on twitch these days.
Bro literally sounds like a boomer who doesn't like change. Ad density doesn't matter? I refuse to migrate to twitch because the ads. I'd rather just wait for clips and the vod on YT.
@@just_some_southeast_asian_guy I only really participate in chat for smaller streamers, not bigger ones like Lud where your messages disappear. So chat experience isn't something I personally care about. The product is the Stream, and if it's hard to watch, well, like I said, I'd rather wait for the clips and vod on YT
I think where it's been "proven that ad density doesn't matter" is where the user already uses that platform. When I watch youtube on my TV, I get like 30 seconds of ads every 3 minutes, vs on my phone I'll get two skippable ad breaks in a 20 minute video. I still watch on my TV sometimes. On the other hand, I've tried to watch twitch a couple times, but just left the platform before the pre-roll ads ended. I also stopped reading new articles, recipes, etc. on the internet because if feels like 90% of the webpage is ads.
Linus has talked about it extensively. The youtube algorithm will push long stream VODs from a stream on youtube more than uploading a video that is the recording of your stream from twitch. This was very observable when transitioning the WAN show to multistream. The problem here is no one is watching Ludwig's VODs. He's not investing into his youtube channel to get it pushed. Your channel needs to get into youtube premium members autoplay.
I didn't even know he had a vod channel. Now I'm not particularily invested in livestreaming on UA-cam and haven't caught a single stream basically. But I've watched A LOT of his videos, so you'd assume his vod channel would get recommended to me. But it doesn't.
Yeah as someone with YT premium I do not watch Twitch. I have tried but everytime I click on a stream on Twitch and see 1 of 12 ads I insta click off I just can't I'll catch the vod later if I care enough about the content.
I think Ludwig is making a pretty sever logical error when talking about uploading VODs separately as opposed to streaming on YT & letting them stay up. If it's a fresh upload on the VOD instead of main channel, it has a smaller pool of data for YT to use to seed it into the algorithm. It takes longer to establish that & for it to eventually get big. Whereas a YT stream direct to VOD might have 10-20K+ unique views when it gets converted to a VOD, into the sub boxes of the subscribers of the main channel, and YT already knows has a bunch of data from the stream viewers to help push the VOD to other users "like them." It seems like he just wants the algorithm to work magically for him instead of understanding he can massage it a little bit to improve the chances of it doing well.
By the way, Ludwig said that there was some sort of situation with Offbrand. Do you know what's going on there? And was it a joke that they leveraged almost all of their money into the Hawk Tuah scam and lost it all? Because I just can't believe that someone would actually do that
After watching Charlie, Lud and Hasan talk about this yesterday I looked up 3 streamers this morning who upload their VODs to YT within 24 hours after ending stream on Twitch. All of them were well known streamers, one in the top 30 this month in subs. The best one got about 3% (500-2K views) of their live views on a week old VOD. I looked at 2 streamers who multi-stream and one of them was doubling their live views on the VOD and the other was harder to figure out but was definitely much higher than 3%. I can't tell why except maybe a YT viewer is more likely to come back and finish a stream they were watching earlier or maybe YT algorithm is more likely to push a VOD that has a higher view count from the live portion than starting at zero on an upload. But Ludwig's theory that uploading a VOD after maximizing live viewership on Twitch would accomplish the same thing as multi-streaming doesn't seem to be true in the 5 use cases I looked at this morning.
I don't know the reason, but I get pushed a lot of "UA-cam live" vods, compared to twitch vods. I tend to have to actively seek out twitch vods and I think it might be due to fracturing of viewers. From what I understand, UA-cam values clickthrough rate and consistent repeat viewers which when you stream on twitch doesn't really happen. Vods are never uploaded immediately after the stream is done, sometimes they are uploaded even days after the original stream. By that time, some people will have watched them elsewhere like on twitch and it reduces your clickthrough for your closest viewers. Like I used to watch every CDawg vod on youtube, but sometimes I would see them live or I would go to twitch to watch them if they weren't uploaded yet. Then I would not watch them when they were on youtube since I've already seen it. This leads UA-cam to put your video lower since I've heard from some youtubers, the way the algorithm works is that it first shares your videos with your strongest fans who watch almost all your videos (I would have been in that camp), and if it does well it continues to spread it out, but if it doesn't do well, it doesn't share it as much. By only streaming on twitch, it feels counter to Ludwig's idea of fracturing communities, but you might actually be fracturing your VOD viewership between platforms... And UA-cam's algorithm cares a lot about that... (I might be incredibly biased but I have yet to see a single Ludwig Vod on youtube since he moved to twitch (just clips), but I used to watch every youtube live vod to it's entirety and they would be recommended often.)
This could also just be dependent on the streamer's content. Some content has better watchability as a VOD. For me personally, I'll watch Alpharad's and Dougdoug's stream as a VOD. But I'm not going to watch a Caedrel VOD.
@@TheNodeChannel Yeah you're right that's why it's such a big difference on his. In Fuslie's case if you know her avg. viewer count on twitch and avg viewer count on YT when she was live and then see the total views she got on the Twitch stream you can make an educated guess on how many of her YT views came while she was live vs how many were after the fact vod views. Esfand ]ooks like he isn't pulling Fuslie like growth on his vods so the fact that Leslie was a full time YT streamer for 2 years is probably helping her get more vod views than someone who just started multi-streaming.
How is multi-streaming a pain? Literally click a few extra buttons to start and end stream. Done. It's not like you have to interact with both chats either, especially since most UA-cam stream watchers rewind and pause stream so they aren't even watching it live technically
The reality is twitch sucks ass, the only reason it hasnt died yet is the culture and the chat experience, that's it. Twitch is an awful platform that barely functions, if youtube could just get the chat down I literally dont see how anyone would ever want to visit that janky website ever again
No, the reason it isn't dead is Amazon pays money to keep it going...for now. Twitch isn't a profitable platform and never has been (I mean, none of them are except for Facebook, TikTok, and UA-cam -- Snapchat, Twitter, and all the rest lose money habitually). Much like Ludwig's failing event business that he had to cut off, ironically, Twitch cannot survive without an external subsidy of cash. It is not fundamentally capable of self-funding. They have poor ad performance and they know it, which is why they're using the shotgun approach to ads now. They're just throwing tons of ads and hoping that they can make up the ad revenue in volume. It's ultimately self-defeating, but without a Big Data operation like Google or TikTok has, there is nothing else they can do. And Big Data is a double-edged sword. TikTok's approach to data may yet see it banned from the US, its most profitable market, which would severely affect its bottom line. Facebook is constantly being sued in the EU for how it handles data. I saw there was another lawsuit announced a couple of weeks ago, haha. So the kind of Big Data infrastructure necessary to make a platform profitable may not survive longterm public scrutiny, anyway. (Which would be sad because that would mean the internet would have to transition to all-subscription content, where nothing is free anymore, and everything is nickel-and-dimed for every use of every service, which would ultimately stifle innovation and strangle the internet, itself.)
If you watch UA-cam on your tv, you get hit with a minute long ad instead of the 5 second ones and it’s very annoying. If you open twitch and click on a streamer, you get hit with a 7 minute ad break before ever watching the stream and instantly close the app.
Whenever I watch UA-cam on my tv I get hit with like 10x more ads than on my phone. I can watch the same video and get maybe 1-2 ad breaks on my phone and that would be like 8 on my tv. I don’t know what that is but it’s crazy.
Hey small time UA-cam livestream here, just wanted to let people know the stats on someone with more "attainable numbers". With 150-250 ccv for 3 hours u can expect $16-25 while live and another $8-12 from replay so my stats are similar to luds outside of rare cases. Hope this helps someone !
19:49 hit the nail on the head. Ludwig has to chose to upload his vods on the vod channel, when otherwise it would just get published to the main channel. Maybe his vods would get more revenue if it was on his main channel like Charlie. Ludwig is pretending like his vod channel has as much visibility as the main channel which is ludicrous.
Yeah, having three separate channels (main, vods, and clips) is ridiculous in the year of our lord 2024. They should all go on main. Clips should be formatted as shorts.
Today I discovered there is a separate VOD channel. Although if its just for watching someone play games maybe thats why its not been recommended to me.
@@EphemeralDustironically UA-cam will suppress your main channel in the algo if you put vods on it. Hence why everyone has secondary channels, Charlie is big enough that his vods don’t alter his position in the algorithm which is why he is one of the main beneficiaries of the auto play algo, which selects his VODs even when the game isn’t well liked or hype: see Starfeild or his replays of previously played games
There have been countless times where I have closed a stream or video just because of the ads. The only reason ad density doesn't impact viewership is because people use adblockers.
The ads don't matter if its someone you watch daily, but sometimes you just want to open another tab to check in on squeex, xQc, Caseoh etc and if you're hit with a 1/7, you immediately go back to what you were watching
One YT premium blocks adds on all streams. Twitch sub blocks add on one channel. You do not see a decrease in Twitch viewership when adds increase because people who take issue with that were never there to begin with or left a long time afo
@tffettv5826 that is actually a cool feature. Will look into it I stopped using Twitch years ago, and most likely, that was implemented after I stopped using it.
@@tffettv5826Turbo gives the streamer the ad revenue, Premium is revenue share and gives the streamer much more than the ad revenue. (Revenue per Premium viewer is much more on average than ad-supported viewers.) This factored into my decision to cancel Turbo.
To the ad density study. Was that the same group the Rockefellers used to convince the government that mega corporations wouldn't lower minimum wage compared to buying power and then raise prices and would be amazing for Americans? Because there was a study that said that and now look where we're at. You can make any study mean anything if you have enough motive.
3:35 I do not believe this for a second. If I'm on Twitch and I open a stream and get 5ads immediately; I close the stream. Same thing if I get one of those 7-9 ad chains in the middle of something cool happening in the stream, I just close it.
@@Ethan.Murphy2003Where the statistic? Lud keep praising that it is proven that people don't mind watching but where statistic? It just dumb claiming something without proof. People who have no lives I guess is the demographic who I see don't mind watching ads. But people have things to do and watching ads is not fun when you want a bit entertainment in your time.
@@mohazeffis3369 you don;t get it. YOu're not into the statistics CLEARLY. Imagine a streamer has consistently 600 viewers, (sometimes 500 other times 700). It just so happens that no matter the ad density he'll still keep that number no matter what. Because based on what you are saying, you are NOT one of those people who would tune in always when the livestream starts as those 600 on average. Those 600 would be those resilent to "ads". So the statistics WORK because those 600 ARE NO LIFERSSS , they are either just unemployed or they work at a job that let them watch livestream so OFC it won't matter to them. The more no-lifers you have, the better. I treat twitch viewers as people who will always stay on twitch and visit youtube less frequent. I use Adblock on twitch but if I would NOT have Adblock I'd 100% not stay there because I am used to youtube ad system. I never got for YEARS into twitch because o the ads, but when I discovered the adblock for twitch I finally could be interested into livestream content. So for the first time in years I am on twitch occasionally. But all those statistics that lud and others talk don't include me because those on twitch are those resilient to ads, we're not, If your viewership is composed of 100% of resilient ad watchers then stats say: Just pump the ads and they'll still watch. Spammed a lot but that's what I believe is the gist of it. People should argument thoughts more of "Why" they don't believe. You don't need proof to realize that what he says is true and false at the same time.
every time i open twitch i get 3min of pre roll ads and close it a LOT faster than that 3 min. youtube player is infinitely better in all aspects, it's not just the rewinding/pausing. also, id bet anything that vods on a main chanel get more views than on a 'vod chanel'.
The ad take is so brain dead and he doesn’t understand that if his streams were up on his main channel afterwards it would 100% do better than the vods on his vod channel that gets less exposure
Ludwigs missing the point here. If you just stream on twitch and upload the vod onto UA-cam you are missing out on the live revenue you could've earned if you were multistreaming it to youtube. If you streamed on twitch and earned $2k, then uploaded the vod onto UA-cam and earned $2k from ads, that's $4k total. Now, if you streamed on UA-cam as well, that's potentially another $2k. Giving up the opportunity to make an extra $2k (numbers here are just to make the point) means that multistreaming and "just uploading the vod" are not the same thing.
Live revenue on youtube is negligable. It's all in the vods. Lud himself said he got more concurrent subs playing league on twitch and all those years on youtube
@TheRealTaltibalti Negligible doesn't mean it's not worth it. Not multistreaming just because you would get less than the vod would make is an insane argument. It takes no effort to set up and is extra income on top of what you would be earning.
@@MaTTzZ2k11 So just from Ludwig's own words he values 20k twitch viewers over 25k streaming to both. Again he made more money streaming league than he has on any stream he's ever done on UA-cam. It's easier to get higher viewership on twitch with less effort whereas it higher viewership on UA-cam takes a lot more effort
To add to that he got 35k+ viewers playing league off relatively smaller production costs. Getting that viewership on UA-cam costs hundreds of thousand of dollars per his own words
"People don't think they care about ads as much as they think they do." -- It turns away new viewers that get hit with pre-roll ads & then never tune into the stream in the first place. Nowadays I literally only go to twitch for drops related to a game I'm playing because the site is dogshit. It makes me hesitate to watch any twitch content.
Yeah that was a crazy statement of him to make. I'm old enough to have watched tv before TIVO existed let alone streaming services. Both me and my father would record shows on VHS so we could ffwd through the commercials. Before I got YT Premium if the pre-roll ad was longer than 15 seconds I just closed the video and went to a different one. Twitch was a complete no go for me other than the channel I gave my Prime to in order to avoid ads. I just spent more time typing this than I have watching ads in the last 2 months. People who sit through all those ads must be passive viewers who just have it on in the background.
I think Lud is trippin a lil bit , he doesn’t have as many YT streams that make revenue after they are live like Charlie because he posts on another channel. I feel that definitely has a factor in views on his vods. Charlie’s content is like one stop shop, Lud has Vod channel, MM, and his main channel. Idk I just think he should multi stream because many YT viewers won’t switch back. But he gon figure it out ❤
It might just be my personal taste, but I also think that quite a lot of Ludwig's streams are just stuff that you really have to be there for and that doesn't really seem fun as a Vod. What's the point of Just Chatting when you aren't, well, chatting?
from watching this video i got recommended one of ludwigs vods from his main channel so i feel like it voids luds argument of it being the same as uploading to a vod channel. And i would imagine if you watch a lud live stream it would recommend similar content from the same channel, and that content being past live streams
I have had zero ads ever on any content. I hate ads so much I have installed extensions that skip sponsor segments. So no. When you say I'm exaggerating, no I am not.
Yeah ludwig saying ad density doesn't matter is crazy to me since I actively clicked off watching league week every time an ad happened. I feel like most people don't realize that we live in a world where there is infinite content to watch so there is no point in sitting through an ad when I can just go watch something else without ads and then watch the video after the fact ad free or just watch the important clips ad free.
@@platinumphoenix5963 thats the thing though a majority of people dont even use adblockers so even though it seems insane you are in the minority if you care enough about ads to install an adblocker
I think one of the differences between you and Charlie is he’s playing games, and your streams are more a just chatting stream. A lot of people are more likely to watch vods of gameplay rather than a just chatting stream.
ludwig is so out of touch, not even 3 mins in and he has no idea what hes talking about. I do not use youtube for the player, i use youtube for the content and the lack of ads.
it was, he said "both" right at the start, the rest is him giving the stats for those interesed. If you don't want to watch 36 minutes and feel like your time was wasted, don't watch 36 minutes of stats and a random dudes opinions on a topic probably does not affect you.
That’s the scenario we have today. Some of us just want the headline and be done with it. We’ve lost the attention span to sit and listen to the how and why.
i literally looked through Ludwig's yt channel looking for livestream before. but he unlisted them so i couldn't get to them from the live tab. Ludwig makes it really hard to watch his livestream VODs. No wonder his Livestream VODs doesn't get as much viewers afterwards. It's all unlisted. Just checked his yt channel again. he stopped unlisting them. didn't know he changed it.
Twitch streamer missing the point and speaking for the audience. Nope the answer is... Ads... Ads Ads Ads and more Ads, and to tell the truth if you're on twitch you're probably still watching more Ads on those Ads with Ads. Is legit the legit the most annoying experience of my life watching anything on twitch cause Ads.
The only problem of multi-streaming, is that it's PC only. If you stream on mobile or console most streams are already lagging with just 1 output. Restreaming can only be done on PC.
I watch streams on UA-cam because I have UA-cam premium for other stuff and it allows me to not see ads so that's why I do it. I prefer twitch but I don't really want to pay for twitch, prime or whatever. It is. The only person I watch on Twitch is really sond because I've been subbed to him for years
These days there are ways around pre-roll ads. You can do 3 minutes of ads at the very start of your stream while the "beginning soon" scene is up and get an hour of no pre-roll ads when people join. Every hour or so you can take a break, run a brb screen, and play 3 more minutes of ads to get another hour of "No-preroll". I know it's still ads but at least people don't get hit with them when they come in and people won't miss anything since you're already taking a break.
The thing is not all Ludwig vods are enjoyable to watch For example i will go and watch a 3hr gameplay of charlie Ludwig Connor or any other steamer i like on UA-cam because it is enjoyable and the game they are playing will keep me hooked But as far as i know Ludwig streams are like just chatting streams which are enjoyable live and not on vods The vods i watched of luds are of Minecraft parkour society ones , his chess boxing and other events , his league streams and thats all And the only reason i refuse to watch streams on twitch is because the mobile app of twitch is horrendous and so hard to use But twitch have the most interactive chat elements
Charlie almost exclusively chats and pkays games. Its the audience he garnered on youtube. Lud could do it too, but he divides attention between twitch and youtube.
@@TallicaMan1986 you taking about while the streamer is Live? From a few vids I watched the streamer can turn off Live monitization and most do, unless they made a mistake, they push out a notification to the people that have watched the live streams enough and a bunch of those people come back to watch the VOD. The beauty of the VOd is that most people don't even notice the ads because they're usually really well targeted and you can skip most of them
@@EndoftheBeginning17 yeah. This has nothing to do with what I said. You seem to be coping about something. Like people make too much streaming. Im saying Charlie Garnered a Specific Audience. As anyone could.
You're completely right, i used to watch ludwig but then jumped to cdawg and squeex because they actually play games. Squeex said it himself that he doesn't see how anyone can watch a charismatic streamer, that he only watches streamers play games. Since then I learned that I enjoy streamers that play games, hence caseoh being my top streamer now.
When i watch livestreams on youtube i often pause them and continue to watch them another time. When i continue the stream is already over (most if the times) but i just can continue to watch the VOD.
Only the top few percentage of streamers are making that kind of money and a fair comparison would be others in the entertainment/sports industry with that size of an audience. Think of it this way, a lot of these streamers are performing to an audience the size of your average NBA crowd for longer than a single game. I'd argue the vast majority of them are way underpaid for how many hours they put in entertaining the number of people they do. Example in 2020-2021 Sykkuno was basically packing in a football stadium every day for half a year and ended up making less than 2M landing him in the top 30 in Twitch payout. You think a star musician is going to accept 2M for over 100 shows filling football stadiums, not likely.
I think Luds Content sucks for Vods. It has a lot of pauses, clickbait titles, and in general his vibe is not great for it. Connor Vod: The title tells me what hes going to do. Mostly chill and games i usually don't see with entertaining interactions with his frineds. Lud: "LAST STREAM/DRAMA", 45 min talking, random rage at viewers, mainstream/meme game. The only vods i watched was BG3. That was great series.
Another point for Charlie making so much more money on his youtube vods is the size of audience he's cultivated on youtube that recognize his thumbnail and title style
1:55 no it is quite literally not, that what you THINK but its not what it is, yes we do love pausing, its freaking amazing, but the best things is that the chat is not a mindless blop like on twitch and we dont have to suffer through ads like its a fucking tv network, twitch with its fucking 3 ads per hour rate is basically becoming a like a tv network, the reason we stopped consuming mainstream tv at least for me is the reason that i dont wanna suffer like 20 min ads for 40 mins of content, and that is the way where twitch is heading
Can I just ask if that is a regional thing? I never get ads on Twitch, except sometimes when I first enter a stream. I'm from Europe. Could that have something to do with it?
@Banaziir Yes it is. Companies pay for ads. Imagine getting an ad for a company in South Africa when you are from Spain. That isn't profitable. I remember joining a friend stream the other day and getting 8 ads in 15 mins(4 at the beginning and 4 later). I just moved to the United States while all the other people in the stream were in the Dominican Republic. In the entire stream they didn't get a single add while I got around 20 of them and missed more than half the stream(it wasn't a long stream).
I tend to watch streamers i sub to on twitch, but youtube premium to avoid ads on UA-cam streams. So, I have a lot of experience in both, and I need to know what youtube stream chats you're a part of that are not mindless awfullness. Twitch chat is miles and miles above youtube chat. Every youtube chat I've been a part of is dog water.
some people have bandwidth issues, so they could stream 1080p60 to twitch, then pull the vod and upload to youtube vods channel, without having to multi-stream to 2 separate platforms which would require good internet connection
What lud is saying about ad density is only true up to a point. There’s a delicate balance, where if you edge over a certain critical mass of ad density, everyone will stop watching because fuck that shit.
tl;dr Ludwig has old head mentality when it comes to streaming 2:12 - "People don't care as much about ads as they think they care about ads" As someone who used to watch twitch a ton from Justin into Twitch mid 2017 the ads have become so horrible that is becomes unbearable to watch streamers. I can tolerate 30sec ads but when it gets into the 5+ minute range then what difference is it than cable. 10:42 - Quick comment here, the Spiffing Brit made a video talking about how longer videos do surprisingly well due to people who just sleep with YT on in the background and let autoplay go crazy. 19:20 - From a viewer perspective I find more about the enjoyability of a stream and like I stated earlier, it's more about the intrusion of ads the makes the twitch experience suffer in my opinion. While yes, streamers would want to maximize profits but why not just multi-stream on both platforms rather than stream on one then upload the VOD later. As someone who doesn't have a career in content creation I view uploading a VOD as wasting time and some may somehow view it as "too much effort". The great thing about streaming on YT is that when the stream is over then it is already a VOD and "uploaded" onto the site and that could still be recommended to users. 36:08 - From using Ludwig's Mogul Grooves playlist that he uses for streams, a lot of the music gets claimed while Charlie does not play any music so that's where that discrepancy could come in.
2:17 I’m literally not watching Ludwig anymore because of Twitch ads lol. I have one Amazon prime per month and most of the time, it’s used on Cdawg because he does a done of events (that don’t have people “casting” most of the time like LUD). So he’s the only reason I watch twitch. Trying to find new people to watch but getting hit with ads is the reason I don’t use the platform much.
The only single thing I would use Twitch for is their superior chat feature while the stream is live (and drops) but ads just kill that. What's the point of getting hyped for the live content when there is a considerable chance you might miss a very important part cause you got ad-walled, sometimes for like several minutes.
I do watch a lot of vods but there are channels here on UA-cam where when they stream I watch them live, but if I missed the live I don't always watch the vod. The logic here is catching the attention of those like me who don't always watch the vods. If you multi stream you can catch both live audiences, while ALSO getting the views from the vods. As a streamer you lose nothing for multi streaming except for a few minutes on setting it up, and while it may not guarantee a huge success, it guarantees you a level of improvement.
I’m an ad watching menace on shitty mobile games but when it comes to Twitch, I go “these 8 ads aren’t that bad.” But then comes another set 4 minutes later and at that point I question what the point even is. I end up watching ads for 50% of the time I’m on twitch and it’s just 100% not worth it. I’d rather wait till the streamer uploads a highlights moment to UA-cam
I don’t see why you wouldn’t just multi stream, just pull up both chats and alternate between them. Or just ignore UA-cam mainly focus on twitch. But at the end of the day low effort vod upload to UA-cam and ad revenue on the stream and on the vod. Make your twitch money and add UA-cam. Really a win win.
I'm actually interested to see the research on ad density now. Most people use adblockers so I wonder how did they exclude those people from the video and at the same time had enough sample size to determine that it in fact is not ads but something else that might be at play. For example I bet most people watching Lud have adblocker, you need some channel targetting technical illiterate people and even then it's hard to do research like this but maybe I'm thinking about it wrong
This is false. Case and point: Asmongold talking about ads from OTK meetings. Ad blocking rates have DECREASED over time. How? Why? Mobile "Most" people don't use ad blockers because most people use mobile where doing that takes significantly more effort than "install an extension" and go about your day. Desktop, I think you're right but desktop users are a small fraction of the content ecosystem these days. I'd think no more than 15% or so. Twitch is an anomaly with about 50% of viewers being desktop.
Hello Ludwig I had to make a whole google account just to tell you, you are flat out wrong. I refuse to watch twitch because of the ads. Since they started this years ago my hours watched has gone down to 0. I cannot get myself to watch twitch because I have to sit through 4 straight 30 second unskippable ads. I understand you look at “data” that tells you “people don’t care”. There is nuance here that tells you it’s not all about ad density, but also ad experience. I don’t mind 4 ads on UA-cam that I can skip after 5 seconds. I do mind 4 ads for 2 minutes straight. Sure the ad “density” is the same, but the experience is vastly different.
Its not that people dont care about ads, its the fact u can never skip them especially on twitch when u will get hit with 10 ads each being 15-30secs each and can never skip them youtube u get 2 ads max time lengeths varies but most are skippable unless u get 2 5 secs ads u can normally skip and that to me is where it completely surpasses twitch and makes it completely more enjoyable and tolerable
I think the main difference between Charlie, Connor, and Ludwig is that Charlie and Connor both have a HUGE UA-cam presence in addition to their Twitch presence; because of that I think UA-cam-only users are waaaay more likely to watch a Connor or Charlie VOD on UA-cam rather than a Ludwig VOD since they'll already have quite a lot of exposure to those creators.
we go to twitch, shop for a streamer, and then sub to their youtube vod channel. that is the way. maybe pop into twitch for the novelty of being lost in the sea that is chat in the hopes of being seen.
Ludwig, ad density matters to a point. The Ad density on Twitch is far worse, so that pushes people off Twitch or into membership/twitch turbo. UA-cam the ad density is far smaller and you can skip after 5 seconds. If you could not skip the ads on youtube, especially some of the worst thought-out ads (eg those 30 minute "ad's" which is just someone's regular video, some people push to inflate their viewership metrics. And those oh so annoying ads voice by the worst TTS voices (eg Uber) for services that nobody actually needs.) That said, it's very obvious to the streamer when ads are firing off, because you see a saw-tooth pattern to the stream health as people disappear from your stream every few minutes, and sometimes don't come back. There is a threshold at which people just won't watch content on the platform, and we've basically learned that threshold is 1 minute of ads every 7 minutes, but most viewers will not watch a "live stream" anymore if the frequency of the ad interruption is more than every 30 minutes.
yeah i stopped all netflix etc streaming services cuz of ads, i don't watch twitch except if it's on 2nd monitor while playing because of ads. UA-cam i don't get ads. For some people it does matter.
For some real world numbers, one of my last streams (3 hours long) made 18 cents when live, and the VOD made 5 cents. This is with a CPM of $7.20, so.... mileage varies, everyone.
As someone who's a 99% video- and 1% stream- watcher, I feel like the only real downside to multi streaming besides the length ( which I don't know anything about ) would be the interaction with chat, or chats in this case...
some vods age like fine wine. if the title does not refer to something time specific and can peak interest on a general level you increase the chance of people watching your vods back. I think charlie means you earn more generally on twitch for each stream, but on UA-cam you can gamble and you might earn less but sometimes the algorithm pushes your vod to earn 10 times as much.
The problem with the statistics on ad density is the people who are borderline on watching twitch anyway, like me. Twitch is entertaining but it’s also a time investment now. If I could jump in for 5 minutes here and there I would, but that is not worth 2 minutes of ads each time. I barely watch twitch now because I have a busy life.
I hear your point about ads, but me personally. I will not ever sit through anything with ads. If i dont have some kind of ad blocker, i will just close the video and go do something else. I realize most people prolly wont agree with me, but its not worth my time to sit thru ads.
If you have a regular add blocker youtube doesnt give you adds at all, meanwhile twitch gives you 3 minutes of adds when you start the stream which is just sooo bad
Hey. All of Charlie’s thumbnails are not auto curated. Only like 95% of them are. The other 5% are custom thumbnails that are literally just a screenshot of what he’s talking about.
UA-cam would often recommend a VOD from a Ludwig stream to me, but NEVER a video from his VOD channel. Like, ever. These are entirely different things for the algorithm.
I’d also argue that YT streamers haven’t really pushed memberships either, part of the reason they’re not making much revenue from them (ex. Fewer “subathons”).
The way i see this is if Maxamilliandood does his FF7 remake series live on youtube he wont have to have his editors put together the full 30-50 episodes separate. You'll have the youtube chat you could follow along with and its gonna be watched MANY MANY times over and over. I went and watched maxdoods twitch vods because i didn't wanna miss anything and i also watched the youtube posts that were edited from twitch. I could see some of these big streams that will have longevity making crazy bank over time without the effort of editing and reposting. Maxdood pays his editors a lot tho so he feels bad he's cutting money from his employees which is his current problem with multistreaming.
Charlies rates are really a testimate to how long he's been consistently popular, though I'd figure you, having a youtube contract, would also have some favourable rates.
I remember a time back when I used to play overwatch i was watching a flats video and he mentioned his twitch so I decided to see if he was streaming to my delight he was I clicked on his stream 2 minutes of ads later I was onto the content 5 minutes later I got hit with more ads since then my twitch has been offloaded
I think anotehr thing Lud doesn't take into account is that his lives turn into vids pretty quickly. People like Charlie or DougDoug, their streams may never become vids or may take a week or, in Doug's cases, months to be viewed by most other people. Or charlie will only use a clip or azfew clips from stream so viewers know they have to go watch their VODs much more because if they want to see the content or see it in full they have to do that. Lud, im never too worried if i miss a stream because i know there will be a video for it relatively quickly. Their content is just different and maybe that is why their vods see more success.
Saying that you can just upload the vod to a vod channel is kind of a non-argument. you said it yourself, it's pretty much the same thing as co-streaming, so why would I as a creator take the time to end stream, wait for the vod to process on twitch, wait for it to download, wait for it to upload to youtube, go through the steps that youtube requires for uploads, then hit publish on the video when i could instead just hit end stream and have the vod be available instantly with no extra work on my part ON TOP of the engagement that the stream had to give it an inital boost in the algorithm. It really does just make more sense to costream if this is the goal.
Lmaooooo i open twitch once a month, get 8 pre roll ads and close the app immediately
Yep then you try go to another streamer after the ads and get hit with more.
Yea that's my main issue whenever I try viewing anything on twitch.
yeah everytime i open twitch and this happens i just leave... i just wanted to check the stream and whats happening but i get served a million ads
If you really hate ad, you should get an ad block, it's not like you would buy any of the ad anyway
@liloma20 buy any of the ad?
Huh?
What are you trying to say?
Ad blockers work and then don't work, YT premium just works 100% of the time. 😂
2:17 L take. Most ads in youtube are skippable thats why they F with youtube. Twitch forces you to watch 30 seconds to a minute of ads
Skippable and the unskippable ads doesn't seem that long
Yeah i've stopped watching twitch altogether
@@harizwain4969 no I mean, we F with youtube in the good way.
He wasn't cooking with that. I get smacked by that many ads I just turn that shit off, I dont want to give them a penny if they're gonna pull that
Download adblocker
I will entirely stop watching a stream when I get hit with the 7 ad break.
Maybe not after the first one, but definitely the second one that comes 4 minutes afterwards
Do youtube viewers live in 1990? How have you people lived on the internet for that long and dont know how to use an adblocker?
@@TheSlithicead blockers don’t work on twitch especially mobile
@@4emia some still work but are a little complicated to set up, i slowed down on twitch outside the one or two people i subscribe too
Never subbed, never donated, Adblock on, neighbors WiFi 🤣
I would argue that if someone was watching the stream live on UA-cam, but only caught 30-40 minutes of it. In many cases they would go back to it after it was finished and watch more of the vod.
This doesn’t happen if you upload to a vod channel, because nobody is going to scroll through a 5 hour stream vid to find out where they stopped watching. If the video is automatically made into a vod, then that data on where they stopped watching is saved. And if enough live watchers click on the vod to finish watching it, that boosts it in the algorithm.
Theres a really good video on this from SpiffingBrit, these livestreams autoplay on peoples TVs at night. I leave my tv on at night and it always auto plays 5+ hour long videos, and you are asleep so the ads pay waaaaay more when they aren't skipped
Exactly, Ludwig completely misses the point of how the live stream on UA-cam help the vod get the push it need to even be picked up by the UA-cam algorithm.
Even if most of them would not do crazy numbers they at least get the first boost to have a potential to, in a way uploading to a separate vod channel never would.
Not only that, but you can watch in 1.25 and 1.5x so you can eventually catch up. You can also pause, and rewatch anything at will.
Also, as someone in a less developed country with lower internet speeds: I dont really know the reason but UA-cam never ever buffers even at lower speeds, while Twitch buffers all the time when connection speeds are low.
I rewind to the start as soon as I tune in. But chat isn’t something I care about at all, so there’s that.
I have done this a bit and I'm sure others have, too, but the effect might not be that large. Still, incremental revenue is incremental revenue, and it's lost revenue if it goes unwatched because of the difficulty of navigating to a spot in a VOD, so your point probably stands.
I pay for UA-cam and Spotify premium to avoid ads so I refuse to believe that ads has nothing to do with what gets viewed.
Yeah and a lot of people sub on twitch to not deal with ads and barely watch streamers they aren't subbed to, thus making smaller streamers struggle to get new viewers
UA-cam Premium is a necessity for me, there is nothing more infuriating than ads blocking what you want to see. I’ve no issue with ones that show on the side of an article or something, but those that prevent you from viewing the content entirely should be criminal
I don’t agree with the ad take with Ludwig. It’s genuinely atrocious to watch twitch on mobile, I want to watch someone new, instantly hit with ads. I click on a streamer I like, instantly hit with ads. I close and reopen a streamer, still hit with ads. I just find it more enjoyable to watch a stream on UA-cam and have for sure more watch time just watching vods than watching livestreams on twitch these days.
Bro literally sounds like a boomer who doesn't like change.
Ad density doesn't matter? I refuse to migrate to twitch because the ads. I'd rather just wait for clips and the vod on YT.
Yeah I stopped watching on twitch when they fucked the mobile UI and fucked the ad density. Fuck watching ads everytime I click on a new stream.
The only redeeming thing twitch has is Chat Culture and the ability to do continuous marathon streams
@@just_some_southeast_asian_guy I only really participate in chat for smaller streamers, not bigger ones like Lud where your messages disappear. So chat experience isn't something I personally care about. The product is the Stream, and if it's hard to watch, well, like I said, I'd rather wait for the clips and vod on YT
I agree, Lud needs to show the "proof" he keeps mentioning
I think where it's been "proven that ad density doesn't matter" is where the user already uses that platform. When I watch youtube on my TV, I get like 30 seconds of ads every 3 minutes, vs on my phone I'll get two skippable ad breaks in a 20 minute video. I still watch on my TV sometimes.
On the other hand, I've tried to watch twitch a couple times, but just left the platform before the pre-roll ads ended. I also stopped reading new articles, recipes, etc. on the internet because if feels like 90% of the webpage is ads.
Linus has talked about it extensively. The youtube algorithm will push long stream VODs from a stream on youtube more than uploading a video that is the recording of your stream from twitch. This was very observable when transitioning the WAN show to multistream.
The problem here is no one is watching Ludwig's VODs. He's not investing into his youtube channel to get it pushed.
Your channel needs to get into youtube premium members autoplay.
Eyyyy
I didn't even know he had a vod channel. Now I'm not particularily invested in livestreaming on UA-cam and haven't caught a single stream basically. But I've watched A LOT of his videos, so you'd assume his vod channel would get recommended to me. But it doesn't.
2:17 ads are the reason that I do not use twitch. I will not be following Lud back over there.
theres great adblockers
Yeah as someone with YT premium I do not watch Twitch. I have tried but everytime I click on a stream on Twitch and see 1 of 12 ads I insta click off I just can't I'll catch the vod later if I care enough about the content.
@@Mhystixal Twitch is better at fighting adblockers than UA-cam.
Turbo gang
@@kobisjeruk nah pie adblock works
I think Ludwig is making a pretty sever logical error when talking about uploading VODs separately as opposed to streaming on YT & letting them stay up. If it's a fresh upload on the VOD instead of main channel, it has a smaller pool of data for YT to use to seed it into the algorithm. It takes longer to establish that & for it to eventually get big. Whereas a YT stream direct to VOD might have 10-20K+ unique views when it gets converted to a VOD, into the sub boxes of the subscribers of the main channel, and YT already knows has a bunch of data from the stream viewers to help push the VOD to other users "like them." It seems like he just wants the algorithm to work magically for him instead of understanding he can massage it a little bit to improve the chances of it doing well.
This is close to language
By the way, Ludwig said that there was some sort of situation with Offbrand. Do you know what's going on there? And was it a joke that they leveraged almost all of their money into the Hawk Tuah scam and lost it all? Because I just can't believe that someone would actually do that
@@monopoly5496 100% a joke
This comment is well explained
After watching Charlie, Lud and Hasan talk about this yesterday I looked up 3 streamers this morning who upload their VODs to YT within 24 hours after ending stream on Twitch. All of them were well known streamers, one in the top 30 this month in subs. The best one got about 3% (500-2K views) of their live views on a week old VOD. I looked at 2 streamers who multi-stream and one of them was doubling their live views on the VOD and the other was harder to figure out but was definitely much higher than 3%. I can't tell why except maybe a YT viewer is more likely to come back and finish a stream they were watching earlier or maybe YT algorithm is more likely to push a VOD that has a higher view count from the live portion than starting at zero on an upload. But Ludwig's theory that uploading a VOD after maximizing live viewership on Twitch would accomplish the same thing as multi-streaming doesn't seem to be true in the 5 use cases I looked at this morning.
I don't know the reason, but I get pushed a lot of "UA-cam live" vods, compared to twitch vods. I tend to have to actively seek out twitch vods and I think it might be due to fracturing of viewers. From what I understand, UA-cam values clickthrough rate and consistent repeat viewers which when you stream on twitch doesn't really happen. Vods are never uploaded immediately after the stream is done, sometimes they are uploaded even days after the original stream. By that time, some people will have watched them elsewhere like on twitch and it reduces your clickthrough for your closest viewers.
Like I used to watch every CDawg vod on youtube, but sometimes I would see them live or I would go to twitch to watch them if they weren't uploaded yet. Then I would not watch them when they were on youtube since I've already seen it. This leads UA-cam to put your video lower since I've heard from some youtubers, the way the algorithm works is that it first shares your videos with your strongest fans who watch almost all your videos (I would have been in that camp), and if it does well it continues to spread it out, but if it doesn't do well, it doesn't share it as much.
By only streaming on twitch, it feels counter to Ludwig's idea of fracturing communities, but you might actually be fracturing your VOD viewership between platforms... And UA-cam's algorithm cares a lot about that...
(I might be incredibly biased but I have yet to see a single Ludwig Vod on youtube since he moved to twitch (just clips), but I used to watch every youtube live vod to it's entirety and they would be recommended often.)
just looking on Ludwig's Channel's Live Videos vs his Vods Channel, and the difference is huge, 200k on Ludwig Live vs like 20k Vods.
@@Igbathscaller Just an FYI the metrics are skewed a bit as if you watched the stream live it does count towards the VOD view count.
This could also just be dependent on the streamer's content. Some content has better watchability as a VOD. For me personally, I'll watch Alpharad's and Dougdoug's stream as a VOD. But I'm not going to watch a Caedrel VOD.
@@TheNodeChannel Yeah you're right that's why it's such a big difference on his. In Fuslie's case if you know her avg. viewer count on twitch and avg viewer count on YT when she was live and then see the total views she got on the Twitch stream you can make an educated guess on how many of her YT views came while she was live vs how many were after the fact vod views. Esfand ]ooks like he isn't pulling Fuslie like growth on his vods so the fact that Leslie was a full time YT streamer for 2 years is probably helping her get more vod views than someone who just started multi-streaming.
I don't mind ads but if I click on a stream and get immediately hit with an ad, I am gone
I read something about those (on twitch) are the guys that have no adds on their live
So twitch puts them right when you click on the live
Those are the streamers that have decided not to play midroll ads. After those prerolls you will not get hit with another ad break.
Almost feels like Charlie is calling Ludwig out for his shit take a out multi-streaming lmao
For his *own personal experience on multi streaming
Ludwig’s take is braindead. Every streamer should multi stream 100 percent
@@rij3142 seems Iike a pain in the ass. twitch and TikTok maybe, because of the discoverability but UA-cam? Naw.
How is multi-streaming a pain? Literally click a few extra buttons to start and end stream. Done. It's not like you have to interact with both chats either, especially since most UA-cam stream watchers rewind and pause stream so they aren't even watching it live technically
@ like I said, TikTok would be fine for discoverability.
The reality is twitch sucks ass, the only reason it hasnt died yet is the culture and the chat experience, that's it. Twitch is an awful platform that barely functions, if youtube could just get the chat down I literally dont see how anyone would ever want to visit that janky website ever again
That's what I was thinking as well. Twitch Chat makes Twitch alive. Without them, Twitch is basically a boring ass website.
No, the reason it isn't dead is Amazon pays money to keep it going...for now. Twitch isn't a profitable platform and never has been (I mean, none of them are except for Facebook, TikTok, and UA-cam -- Snapchat, Twitter, and all the rest lose money habitually). Much like Ludwig's failing event business that he had to cut off, ironically, Twitch cannot survive without an external subsidy of cash. It is not fundamentally capable of self-funding. They have poor ad performance and they know it, which is why they're using the shotgun approach to ads now. They're just throwing tons of ads and hoping that they can make up the ad revenue in volume. It's ultimately self-defeating, but without a Big Data operation like Google or TikTok has, there is nothing else they can do.
And Big Data is a double-edged sword. TikTok's approach to data may yet see it banned from the US, its most profitable market, which would severely affect its bottom line. Facebook is constantly being sued in the EU for how it handles data. I saw there was another lawsuit announced a couple of weeks ago, haha. So the kind of Big Data infrastructure necessary to make a platform profitable may not survive longterm public scrutiny, anyway. (Which would be sad because that would mean the internet would have to transition to all-subscription content, where nothing is free anymore, and everything is nickel-and-dimed for every use of every service, which would ultimately stifle innovation and strangle the internet, itself.)
Even then, I don't think the chat experience is even worth it if you are watching a streamer that runs ads.
If you watch UA-cam on your tv, you get hit with a minute long ad instead of the 5 second ones and it’s very annoying. If you open twitch and click on a streamer, you get hit with a 7 minute ad break before ever watching the stream and instantly close the app.
On your tv you can skip the whole add by clicking the (i) icon (For UA-cam)
Whenever I watch UA-cam on my tv I get hit with like 10x more ads than on my phone. I can watch the same video and get maybe 1-2 ad breaks on my phone and that would be like 8 on my tv. I don’t know what that is but it’s crazy.
Hey small time UA-cam livestream here, just wanted to let people know the stats on someone with more "attainable numbers". With 150-250 ccv for 3 hours u can expect $16-25 while live and another $8-12 from replay so my stats are similar to luds outside of rare cases. Hope this helps someone !
that's very informative, thanks
19:49 hit the nail on the head. Ludwig has to chose to upload his vods on the vod channel, when otherwise it would just get published to the main channel. Maybe his vods would get more revenue if it was on his main channel like Charlie. Ludwig is pretending like his vod channel has as much visibility as the main channel which is ludicrous.
Exactly. Bro thinks the algo is pushing a channel with 250k subs the same as one with 6.5 mil.
Yeah, having three separate channels (main, vods, and clips) is ridiculous in the year of our lord 2024. They should all go on main. Clips should be formatted as shorts.
Today I discovered there is a separate VOD channel. Although if its just for watching someone play games maybe thats why its not been recommended to me.
@@EphemeralDustironically UA-cam will suppress your main channel in the algo if you put vods on it. Hence why everyone has secondary channels, Charlie is big enough that his vods don’t alter his position in the algorithm which is why he is one of the main beneficiaries of the auto play algo, which selects his VODs even when the game isn’t well liked or hype: see Starfeild or his replays of previously played games
@@kyleleehufnagelwhy would you assume they would suppress the channel?!
There have been countless times where I have closed a stream or video just because of the ads.
The only reason ad density doesn't impact viewership is because people use adblockers.
Ads suck. Twitch sucks. I'll just watch clips and YT videos from now on.
The ads don't matter if its someone you watch daily, but sometimes you just want to open another tab to check in on squeex, xQc, Caseoh etc and if you're hit with a 1/7, you immediately go back to what you were watching
One YT premium blocks adds on all streams. Twitch sub blocks add on one channel.
You do not see a decrease in Twitch viewership when adds increase because people who take issue with that were never there to begin with or left a long time afo
have you heard of twitch turbo? like YT premium it blocks adds and also give the streamer the add revenue
@tffettv5826 that is actually a cool feature. Will look into it
I stopped using Twitch years ago, and most likely, that was implemented after I stopped using it.
@@tffettv5826Turbo gives the streamer the ad revenue, Premium is revenue share and gives the streamer much more than the ad revenue. (Revenue per Premium viewer is much more on average than ad-supported viewers.)
This factored into my decision to cancel Turbo.
To the ad density study. Was that the same group the Rockefellers used to convince the government that mega corporations wouldn't lower minimum wage compared to buying power and then raise prices and would be amazing for Americans? Because there was a study that said that and now look where we're at. You can make any study mean anything if you have enough motive.
3:35 I do not believe this for a second. If I'm on Twitch and I open a stream and get 5ads immediately; I close the stream. Same thing if I get one of those 7-9 ad chains in the middle of something cool happening in the stream, I just close it.
“Glass houses arnt fragile I’ve had a glass house for years and it’s been fine”
He’s talking statistically not anecdotally, your experience can be perfectly true and I believe you but I think most people just wait
@@Ethan.Murphy2003 Well my likes, and damn near every other comment with hundreds disagrees with you but do you ig.
@@Ethan.Murphy2003Where the statistic? Lud keep praising that it is proven that people don't mind watching but where statistic? It just dumb claiming something without proof. People who have no lives I guess is the demographic who I see don't mind watching ads. But people have things to do and watching ads is not fun when you want a bit entertainment in your time.
@@mohazeffis3369 you don;t get it. YOu're not into the statistics CLEARLY. Imagine a streamer has consistently 600 viewers, (sometimes 500 other times 700). It just so happens that no matter the ad density he'll still keep that number no matter what. Because based on what you are saying, you are NOT one of those people who would tune in always when the livestream starts as those 600 on average. Those 600 would be those resilent to "ads". So the statistics WORK because those 600 ARE NO LIFERSSS , they are either just unemployed or they work at a job that let them watch livestream so OFC it won't matter to them. The more no-lifers you have, the better.
I treat twitch viewers as people who will always stay on twitch and visit youtube less frequent. I use Adblock on twitch but if I would NOT have Adblock I'd 100% not stay there because I am used to youtube ad system. I never got for YEARS into twitch because o the ads, but when I discovered the adblock for twitch I finally could be interested into livestream content. So for the first time in years I am on twitch occasionally. But all those statistics that lud and others talk don't include me because those on twitch are those resilient to ads, we're not, If your viewership is composed of 100% of resilient ad watchers then stats say: Just pump the ads and they'll still watch.
Spammed a lot but that's what I believe is the gist of it. People should argument thoughts more of "Why" they don't believe. You don't need proof to realize that what he says is true and false at the same time.
every time i open twitch i get 3min of pre roll ads and close it a LOT faster than that 3 min.
youtube player is infinitely better in all aspects, it's not just the rewinding/pausing.
also, id bet anything that vods on a main chanel get more views than on a 'vod chanel'.
Put an ad every 10 seconds into your videos see what happens to this "proof/evidence"
Yeah not a chance he actually believes that unless he also fills his videoes with as many ads as possible
Ads are the reason i dont watch twitch.
The ad take is so brain dead and he doesn’t understand that if his streams were up on his main channel afterwards it would 100% do better than the vods on his vod channel that gets less exposure
Ludwigs missing the point here. If you just stream on twitch and upload the vod onto UA-cam you are missing out on the live revenue you could've earned if you were multistreaming it to youtube. If you streamed on twitch and earned $2k, then uploaded the vod onto UA-cam and earned $2k from ads, that's $4k total. Now, if you streamed on UA-cam as well, that's potentially another $2k. Giving up the opportunity to make an extra $2k (numbers here are just to make the point) means that multistreaming and "just uploading the vod" are not the same thing.
Live revenue on youtube is negligable. It's all in the vods. Lud himself said he got more concurrent subs playing league on twitch and all those years on youtube
he misses a lot, just like in league
@TheRealTaltibalti Negligible doesn't mean it's not worth it. Not multistreaming just because you would get less than the vod would make is an insane argument. It takes no effort to set up and is extra income on top of what you would be earning.
@@MaTTzZ2k11 So just from Ludwig's own words he values 20k twitch viewers over 25k streaming to both. Again he made more money streaming league than he has on any stream he's ever done on UA-cam. It's easier to get higher viewership on twitch with less effort whereas it higher viewership on UA-cam takes a lot more effort
To add to that he got 35k+ viewers playing league off relatively smaller production costs. Getting that viewership on UA-cam costs hundreds of thousand of dollars per his own words
Loved how ludwig pulled streams from the last month to show how the long term success was exaggerated.
"People don't think they care about ads as much as they think they do." -- It turns away new viewers that get hit with pre-roll ads & then never tune into the stream in the first place. Nowadays I literally only go to twitch for drops related to a game I'm playing because the site is dogshit. It makes me hesitate to watch any twitch content.
Yeah that was a crazy statement of him to make. I'm old enough to have watched tv before TIVO existed let alone streaming services. Both me and my father would record shows on VHS so we could ffwd through the commercials. Before I got YT Premium if the pre-roll ad was longer than 15 seconds I just closed the video and went to a different one. Twitch was a complete no go for me other than the channel I gave my Prime to in order to avoid ads. I just spent more time typing this than I have watching ads in the last 2 months. People who sit through all those ads must be passive viewers who just have it on in the background.
I think Lud is trippin a lil bit , he doesn’t have as many YT streams that make revenue after they are live like Charlie because he posts on another channel. I feel that definitely has a factor in views on his vods. Charlie’s content is like one stop shop, Lud has Vod channel, MM, and his main channel. Idk I just think he should multi stream because many YT viewers won’t switch back. But he gon figure it out ❤
It might just be my personal taste, but I also think that quite a lot of Ludwig's streams are just stuff that you really have to be there for and that doesn't really seem fun as a Vod. What's the point of Just Chatting when you aren't, well, chatting?
@ exactly couldn’t agree more
from watching this video i got recommended one of ludwigs vods from his main channel so i feel like it voids luds argument of it being the same as uploading to a vod channel. And i would imagine if you watch a lud live stream it would recommend similar content from the same channel, and that content being past live streams
33:28 "He says it like it's a dagger to my chest" I'm glad he got the message (I also got the "this video is for Ludwig" impression) 😂
I have had zero ads ever on any content. I hate ads so much I have installed extensions that skip sponsor segments. So no. When you say I'm exaggerating, no I am not.
I've gone the extra mile and added an extra filter to not see Twitch ads
If you said that to people you know irl, I think you’d see that you are an outlier. Probably in a super small % of people.
Yeah ludwig saying ad density doesn't matter is crazy to me since I actively clicked off watching league week every time an ad happened. I feel like most people don't realize that we live in a world where there is infinite content to watch so there is no point in sitting through an ad when I can just go watch something else without ads and then watch the video after the fact ad free or just watch the important clips ad free.
@@platinumphoenix5963 thats the thing though a majority of people dont even use adblockers so even though it seems insane you are in the minority if you care enough about ads to install an adblocker
i mean yeah, there are some people who are like you, but most of the people aren't like you with ads
I think one of the differences between you and Charlie is he’s playing games, and your streams are more a just chatting stream. A lot of people are more likely to watch vods of gameplay rather than a just chatting stream.
ludwig is so out of touch, not even 3 mins in and he has no idea what hes talking about. I do not use youtube for the player, i use youtube for the content and the lack of ads.
This whole 36 minutes can be boiled down to “you make more money doing both” 30 second video. The end.
it was, he said "both" right at the start, the rest is him giving the stats for those interesed. If you don't want to watch 36 minutes and feel like your time was wasted, don't watch 36 minutes of stats and a random dudes opinions on a topic probably does not affect you.
That’s the scenario we have today. Some of us just want the headline and be done with it. We’ve lost the attention span to sit and listen to the how and why.
i literally looked through Ludwig's yt channel looking for livestream before.
but he unlisted them so i couldn't get to them from the live tab.
Ludwig makes it really hard to watch his livestream VODs.
No wonder his Livestream VODs doesn't get as much viewers afterwards. It's all unlisted.
Just checked his yt channel again. he stopped unlisting them. didn't know he changed it.
Twitch streamer missing the point and speaking for the audience. Nope the answer is... Ads... Ads Ads Ads and more Ads, and to tell the truth if you're on twitch you're probably still watching more Ads on those Ads with Ads. Is legit the legit the most annoying experience of my life watching anything on twitch cause Ads.
26:37 no way Ludwig called this 20-40% more-it’s like 80-100% more money.
yeah, if the split was 50/50, it's a 100% increase
The only problem of multi-streaming, is that it's PC only. If you stream on mobile or console most streams are already lagging with just 1 output. Restreaming can only be done on PC.
I watch streams on UA-cam because I have UA-cam premium for other stuff and it allows me to not see ads so that's why I do it. I prefer twitch but I don't really want to pay for twitch, prime or whatever. It is. The only person I watch on Twitch is really sond because I've been subbed to him for years
These days there are ways around pre-roll ads. You can do 3 minutes of ads at the very start of your stream while the "beginning soon" scene is up and get an hour of no pre-roll ads when people join. Every hour or so you can take a break, run a brb screen, and play 3 more minutes of ads to get another hour of "No-preroll". I know it's still ads but at least people don't get hit with them when they come in and people won't miss anything since you're already taking a break.
15:44 Charlie is literally talking about the maximum from both so it is fair
The thing is not all Ludwig vods are enjoyable to watch
For example i will go and watch a 3hr gameplay of charlie Ludwig Connor or any other steamer i like on UA-cam because it is enjoyable and the game they are playing will keep me hooked
But as far as i know Ludwig streams are like just chatting streams which are enjoyable live and not on vods
The vods i watched of luds are of Minecraft parkour society ones , his chess boxing and other events , his league streams and thats all
And the only reason i refuse to watch streams on twitch is because the mobile app of twitch is horrendous and so hard to use
But twitch have the most interactive chat elements
Charlie almost exclusively chats and pkays games. Its the audience he garnered on youtube. Lud could do it too, but he divides attention between twitch and youtube.
@@TallicaMan1986 you taking about while the streamer is Live? From a few vids I watched the streamer can turn off Live monitization and most do, unless they made a mistake, they push out a notification to the people that have watched the live streams enough and a bunch of those people come back to watch the VOD. The beauty of the VOd is that most people don't even notice the ads because they're usually really well targeted and you can skip most of them
@@EndoftheBeginning17 yeah. This has nothing to do with what I said. You seem to be coping about something. Like people make too much streaming.
Im saying Charlie Garnered a Specific Audience. As anyone could.
You're completely right, i used to watch ludwig but then jumped to cdawg and squeex because they actually play games. Squeex said it himself that he doesn't see how anyone can watch a charismatic streamer, that he only watches streamers play games. Since then I learned that I enjoy streamers that play games, hence caseoh being my top streamer now.
When i watch livestreams on youtube i often pause them and continue to watch them another time.
When i continue the stream is already over (most if the times) but i just can continue to watch the VOD.
the money these people make is INSANE
Only the top few percentage of streamers are making that kind of money and a fair comparison would be others in the entertainment/sports industry with that size of an audience. Think of it this way, a lot of these streamers are performing to an audience the size of your average NBA crowd for longer than a single game. I'd argue the vast majority of them are way underpaid for how many hours they put in entertaining the number of people they do. Example in 2020-2021 Sykkuno was basically packing in a football stadium every day for half a year and ended up making less than 2M landing him in the top 30 in Twitch payout. You think a star musician is going to accept 2M for over 100 shows filling football stadiums, not likely.
I think Luds Content sucks for Vods. It has a lot of pauses, clickbait titles, and in general his vibe is not great for it.
Connor Vod: The title tells me what hes going to do. Mostly chill and games i usually don't see with entertaining interactions with his frineds.
Lud: "LAST STREAM/DRAMA", 45 min talking, random rage at viewers, mainstream/meme game.
The only vods i watched was BG3. That was great series.
Exactly, this is the reason why i am a connor and QtC vod watcher because i know what im getting into just by title
Another point for Charlie making so much more money on his youtube vods is the size of audience he's cultivated on youtube that recognize his thumbnail and title style
1:55 no it is quite literally not, that what you THINK but its not what it is, yes we do love pausing, its freaking amazing, but the best things is that the chat is not a mindless blop like on twitch and we dont have to suffer through ads like its a fucking tv network, twitch with its fucking 3 ads per hour rate is basically becoming a like a tv network, the reason we stopped consuming mainstream tv at least for me is the reason that i dont wanna suffer like 20 min ads for 40 mins of content, and that is the way where twitch is heading
Very organic post
Can I just ask if that is a regional thing? I never get ads on Twitch, except sometimes when I first enter a stream. I'm from Europe. Could that have something to do with it?
@Banaziir Yes it is. Companies pay for ads. Imagine getting an ad for a company in South Africa when you are from Spain. That isn't profitable. I remember joining a friend stream the other day and getting 8 ads in 15 mins(4 at the beginning and 4 later). I just moved to the United States while all the other people in the stream were in the Dominican Republic. In the entire stream they didn't get a single add while I got around 20 of them and missed more than half the stream(it wasn't a long stream).
I tend to watch streamers i sub to on twitch, but youtube premium to avoid ads on UA-cam streams. So, I have a lot of experience in both, and I need to know what youtube stream chats you're a part of that are not mindless awfullness. Twitch chat is miles and miles above youtube chat. Every youtube chat I've been a part of is dog water.
I'm so glad the video ended before Ludwig gave his arguments. Great fucking video
Twitch is difficult to watch on some TVs too, UA-cam is goated for the TV. I think multi-streaming is a move
some people have bandwidth issues, so they could stream 1080p60 to twitch, then pull the vod and upload to youtube vods channel, without having to multi-stream to 2 separate platforms which would require good internet connection
What lud is saying about ad density is only true up to a point. There’s a delicate balance, where if you edge over a certain critical mass of ad density, everyone will stop watching because fuck that shit.
I guess this is farewell. It was a good run boys
tl;dr Ludwig has old head mentality when it comes to streaming
2:12 - "People don't care as much about ads as they think they care about ads"
As someone who used to watch twitch a ton from Justin into Twitch mid 2017 the ads have become so horrible that is becomes unbearable to watch streamers. I can tolerate 30sec ads but when it gets into the 5+ minute range then what difference is it than cable.
10:42 - Quick comment here, the Spiffing Brit made a video talking about how longer videos do surprisingly well due to people who just sleep with YT on in the background and let autoplay go crazy.
19:20 - From a viewer perspective I find more about the enjoyability of a stream and like I stated earlier, it's more about the intrusion of ads the makes the twitch experience suffer in my opinion. While yes, streamers would want to maximize profits but why not just multi-stream on both platforms rather than stream on one then upload the VOD later. As someone who doesn't have a career in content creation I view uploading a VOD as wasting time and some may somehow view it as "too much effort". The great thing about streaming on YT is that when the stream is over then it is already a VOD and "uploaded" onto the site and that could still be recommended to users.
36:08 - From using Ludwig's Mogul Grooves playlist that he uses for streams, a lot of the music gets claimed while Charlie does not play any music so that's where that discrepancy could come in.
ads you can’t skip are brutal
2:17 I’m literally not watching Ludwig anymore because of Twitch ads lol. I have one Amazon prime per month and most of the time, it’s used on Cdawg because he does a done of events (that don’t have people “casting” most of the time like LUD). So he’s the only reason I watch twitch.
Trying to find new people to watch but getting hit with ads is the reason I don’t use the platform much.
The only single thing I would use Twitch for is their superior chat feature while the stream is live (and drops) but ads just kill that. What's the point of getting hyped for the live content when there is a considerable chance you might miss a very important part cause you got ad-walled, sometimes for like several minutes.
I do watch a lot of vods but there are channels here on UA-cam where when they stream I watch them live, but if I missed the live I don't always watch the vod.
The logic here is catching the attention of those like me who don't always watch the vods. If you multi stream you can catch both live audiences, while ALSO getting the views from the vods. As a streamer you lose nothing for multi streaming except for a few minutes on setting it up, and while it may not guarantee a huge success, it guarantees you a level of improvement.
I’m an ad watching menace on shitty mobile games but when it comes to Twitch, I go “these 8 ads aren’t that bad.” But then comes another set 4 minutes later and at that point I question what the point even is. I end up watching ads for 50% of the time I’m on twitch and it’s just 100% not worth it. I’d rather wait till the streamer uploads a highlights moment to UA-cam
i turn on twitch go to a channel. see 45 sec ad pre-roll before i can watch and turn it off. ad density 100% stops me from watching anyone on twitch.
I don’t see why you wouldn’t just multi stream, just pull up both chats and alternate between them. Or just ignore UA-cam mainly focus on twitch. But at the end of the day low effort vod upload to UA-cam and ad revenue on the stream and on the vod. Make your twitch money and add UA-cam. Really a win win.
The advertisement doesnt drop engagement right away but it does heavily over time
I'm actually interested to see the research on ad density now. Most people use adblockers so I wonder how did they exclude those people from the video and at the same time had enough sample size to determine that it in fact is not ads but something else that might be at play. For example I bet most people watching Lud have adblocker, you need some channel targetting technical illiterate people and even then it's hard to do research like this but maybe I'm thinking about it wrong
This is false. Case and point: Asmongold talking about ads from OTK meetings. Ad blocking rates have DECREASED over time. How? Why?
Mobile
"Most" people don't use ad blockers because most people use mobile where doing that takes significantly more effort than "install an extension" and go about your day.
Desktop, I think you're right but desktop users are a small fraction of the content ecosystem these days. I'd think no more than 15% or so. Twitch is an anomaly with about 50% of viewers being desktop.
Hello Ludwig I had to make a whole google account just to tell you, you are flat out wrong. I refuse to watch twitch because of the ads. Since they started this years ago my hours watched has gone down to 0. I cannot get myself to watch twitch because I have to sit through 4 straight 30 second unskippable ads.
I understand you look at “data” that tells you “people don’t care”. There is nuance here that tells you it’s not all about ad density, but also ad experience. I don’t mind 4 ads on UA-cam that I can skip after 5 seconds. I do mind 4 ads for 2 minutes straight. Sure the ad “density” is the same, but the experience is vastly different.
Its not that people dont care about ads, its the fact u can never skip them especially on twitch when u will get hit with 10 ads each being 15-30secs each and can never skip them youtube u get 2 ads max time lengeths varies but most are skippable unless u get 2 5 secs ads u can normally skip and that to me is where it completely surpasses twitch and makes it completely more enjoyable and tolerable
Ads on twitch would be worlds less frustrating if i could rewind to see what i missed, or if it paused while the ad was playing
I think the main difference between Charlie, Connor, and Ludwig is that Charlie and Connor both have a HUGE UA-cam presence in addition to their Twitch presence; because of that I think UA-cam-only users are waaaay more likely to watch a Connor or Charlie VOD on UA-cam rather than a Ludwig VOD since they'll already have quite a lot of exposure to those creators.
we go to twitch, shop for a streamer, and then sub to their youtube vod channel. that is the way. maybe pop into twitch for the novelty of being lost in the sea that is chat in the hopes of being seen.
Ludwig, ad density matters to a point. The Ad density on Twitch is far worse, so that pushes people off Twitch or into membership/twitch turbo. UA-cam the ad density is far smaller and you can skip after 5 seconds. If you could not skip the ads on youtube, especially some of the worst thought-out ads (eg those 30 minute "ad's" which is just someone's regular video, some people push to inflate their viewership metrics. And those oh so annoying ads voice by the worst TTS voices (eg Uber) for services that nobody actually needs.)
That said, it's very obvious to the streamer when ads are firing off, because you see a saw-tooth pattern to the stream health as people disappear from your stream every few minutes, and sometimes don't come back. There is a threshold at which people just won't watch content on the platform, and we've basically learned that threshold is 1 minute of ads every 7 minutes, but most viewers will not watch a "live stream" anymore if the frequency of the ad interruption is more than every 30 minutes.
I completely disagree everytime I try to use twitch all the ads that you can’t skip always lead me to closing the app I guarantee I’m not the only one
yeah i stopped all netflix etc streaming services cuz of ads, i don't watch twitch except if it's on 2nd monitor while playing because of ads. UA-cam i don't get ads. For some people it does matter.
For some real world numbers, one of my last streams (3 hours long) made 18 cents when live, and the VOD made 5 cents. This is with a CPM of $7.20, so.... mileage varies, everyone.
As someone who's a 99% video- and 1% stream- watcher, I feel like the only real downside to multi streaming besides the length ( which I don't know anything about ) would be the interaction with chat, or chats in this case...
some vods age like fine wine. if the title does not refer to something time specific and can peak interest on a general level you increase the chance of people watching your vods back. I think charlie means you earn more generally on twitch for each stream, but on UA-cam you can gamble and you might earn less but sometimes the algorithm pushes your vod to earn 10 times as much.
2:35 it's been years since I watched an ad
The problem with the statistics on ad density is the people who are borderline on watching twitch anyway, like me. Twitch is entertaining but it’s also a time investment now. If I could jump in for 5 minutes here and there I would, but that is not worth 2 minutes of ads each time. I barely watch twitch now because I have a busy life.
yeh i don't mind ads, if they don't interrupt my actual content. sadly twitch likes to really just ram 3-8 ads into you until you turn on a adblocker
You saying I don't mind ads? Lol I don't watch twitch because of ads. Also have YT premium so I never have ads here
I hear your point about ads, but me personally. I will not ever sit through anything with ads. If i dont have some kind of ad blocker, i will just close the video and go do something else. I realize most people prolly wont agree with me, but its not worth my time to sit thru ads.
The ads are insane on Twitch would trade chat culture for less ads in a instant
If you have a regular add blocker youtube doesnt give you adds at all, meanwhile twitch gives you 3 minutes of adds when you start the stream which is just sooo bad
I'm primarily a YT watcher for streams simply because with premium I don't have to deal with ads.
The main channel gets more push. Your VoD channel is not nearly as pushed by UA-cam.
Hey. All of Charlie’s thumbnails are not auto curated. Only like 95% of them are. The other 5% are custom thumbnails that are literally just a screenshot of what he’s talking about.
I think Destiny was the first guy to stream youtube/twitch/kick, at least till he got banned on twitch. Defo think Multi streaming is the way forward.
Jynxzi and Casoh both do this too and there Vods get like 300k to 600k per vod so they are rolling in it
Bruh as soon as i got the ability and spare money to get rid of ads on youtube + my favorite streamer i went right to it and never lookee back
i'm not using twitch because of ads. fuck ads.
if i want to waste time i'd watch grass grow during the winter.
UA-cam would often recommend a VOD from a Ludwig stream to me, but NEVER a video from his VOD channel. Like, ever. These are entirely different things for the algorithm.
I’d also argue that YT streamers haven’t really pushed memberships either, part of the reason they’re not making much revenue from them (ex. Fewer “subathons”).
The way i see this is if Maxamilliandood does his FF7 remake series live on youtube he wont have to have his editors put together the full 30-50 episodes separate. You'll have the youtube chat you could follow along with and its gonna be watched MANY MANY times over and over. I went and watched maxdoods twitch vods because i didn't wanna miss anything and i also watched the youtube posts that were edited from twitch. I could see some of these big streams that will have longevity making crazy bank over time without the effort of editing and reposting. Maxdood pays his editors a lot tho so he feels bad he's cutting money from his employees which is his current problem with multistreaming.
Charlies rates are really a testimate to how long he's been consistently popular, though I'd figure you, having a youtube contract, would also have some favourable rates.
I remember a time back when I used to play overwatch i was watching a flats video and he mentioned his twitch so I decided to see if he was streaming to my delight he was I clicked on his stream 2 minutes of ads later I was onto the content 5 minutes later I got hit with more ads since then my twitch has been offloaded
"people don't care as much about ads" me with my pi-hole, custom youtube apk and full standalone HTPC just to not ever have ads...
I think anotehr thing Lud doesn't take into account is that his lives turn into vids pretty quickly. People like Charlie or DougDoug, their streams may never become vids or may take a week or, in Doug's cases, months to be viewed by most other people. Or charlie will only use a clip or azfew clips from stream so viewers know they have to go watch their VODs much more because if they want to see the content or see it in full they have to do that. Lud, im never too worried if i miss a stream because i know there will be a video for it relatively quickly. Their content is just different and maybe that is why their vods see more success.
I pay for yt premium for no ads- I won't sit thru twitch cycles of ads. I'll bounce off and hope someone reuploads on yt later.
first thing you mention about ads is entirely wrong.
Saying that you can just upload the vod to a vod channel is kind of a non-argument. you said it yourself, it's pretty much the same thing as co-streaming, so why would I as a creator take the time to end stream, wait for the vod to process on twitch, wait for it to download, wait for it to upload to youtube, go through the steps that youtube requires for uploads, then hit publish on the video when i could instead just hit end stream and have the vod be available instantly with no extra work on my part ON TOP of the engagement that the stream had to give it an inital boost in the algorithm. It really does just make more sense to costream if this is the goal.
If given the choice if I wish to chat I would go on twitch, but if I just want to watch I'll go on UA-cam because ad blocker actually works on UA-cam.