This has sense to it. I wondered why the travel of the Sun from the AS on the anti-clockwise chart didn't correspond to the houses and the evolution of the soul's experience.
I pride myself on finding the best info to my ears. I was listening to the Light Body of Osiris earlier. When your guest mentioned Amenta/ the Earth / Physical Body being a prison for the soul. Then speaking on escaping reincarnation. Then the program on Zeg TV mentioned the teachings of the Karest being universal in 13 🌟 systems. #Ophiuchus
This is suuuper interesting and I will definitely be experimenting with this. I asked about why the first house was opposite to where the planet was rising in an evolutionary course I as taking, but my teacher didn't really have an answer and I assumed there was just some astronomical understanding that was above my head. Would love to hear more on this topic, thank you for the work you are doing!
I read charts clockwise. I wasn't aware of this video until today. It's interesting to hear the share because to me it's intuitive to break karma with this version of reading the chart as South, Midheaven, noon, full moon, summer solstice & North, IC, and midnight, new moon, winter solstice. I also use the Solstices and Equinoxes as the peak of a season not the onset. Flip the compass, to flip the story if you want heaven on earth!
Hey Athen. Awesome video between you guys. Love all the connections with Hermetic & Manley P Hall ( LOve his work) Also the connections with Karma, which also brings us to past lives or even future lives.. So we can be more guided maybe in our lessons/choices in this incarnation?. Is this also where The Intuitive aspects come into reading a chart? I could listen to a 2-hour session between you two :) Defo gave me much food for thought.. Thoroughly enjoyed this, Thank you. ( I can't wait to be able to do your course in the future :) As always Much love Mx
🦋❤🌠 This is so important; we will definitely do work in the future on this topic and others Athen. Thank you again for doing amazing works of understanding and discovering more truths! I had to address this perspective in my astrology course in college and it was very interesting.
When using whole sign houses, a lot of the times, the 12th house in quadrant house systems become the 1st house in whole sign, no need to invert house numbers. If anything, gauquelin's discoveries support whole sign house system. Mars in the 12th house in quadrant house systems, is often mars in the first house whole sign.
Thank you for this discussion. Tropical Astrology is not well suited for people living in Southern Hemisphere countries as our seasons differ. Directions NSEW are the same wherever a person lives with Polaris North Node, Ascendant E, Descendant W. Equinox & Solistices are same dates but opposite seasons. I used Astronomy Apps to map natal planets then compared to Sidereal Astrology. Happy to find both were very similar! (Exceptions 1. Sidereal placed True Cusps into 1 constellation rather than both. Sidereal didn't recognize constellations Augira or Coma Berenice. It placed planets into Taurus and Virgo). Before your discussion I was, like many others, perplexed why Astrology Charts draw ASC on LHS when ASC describes East Direction sky & psychology... Likewise DES is on RHS but describes West Direction. North & South directions refer to Above & Below horizon physically, psychologically, mythologically. That ASc-Des convention seems confused and makes it difficult for people who want to use Astrology to stay attuned to Astronomical stars, directions, seasons, transits.
We don't have any karma! They came! They made us! We are the manifest of their karma! It is not for us to clear. It is theirs!!!! @14:01. We should read ourselves clockwise! This is a phenomenal breakthrough!
Really interesting and useful to open up for discussion. I'd just like to point out that what you are saying is true for the Northern Hemisphere, where you look to the South to see the Sun Moon and Zodiac Constellations moving in the sky along the Ecliptic clockwise, from East to West. Here in the Southern Hemisphere we look North to see the Ecliptic Band, and this movement of Sun Moon and Zodiac Constellations appears to us, South of the Equator, to be in a anticlockwise direction from East to West. East and West are still in the same place, the Sun is still moving in the same direction, but an observer in the Northern Hemisphere sees this from the opposite perspective to an observer in the Southern Hemisphere. An analogy is looking in a mirror, where your right hand appears to be on the left and your left hand appears to be on the right. Picture yourself, North of Equator, looking South to see the Sun, and picture me, facing you, looking North to see the Sun, and you can see that I am your mirror-image, and the Sun, always moving in the same direction, appears to move clockwise to you, and anticlockwise to me. All of this is a product of our Earth-bound (Geocentric) point of view. If we could step outside the Earth and stand in the heart of the Sun, to see the Planets from a Heliocentric (sun-centred) vantage point, things are different. For example, from a Heliocentric point of view, there is no Retrograde movement of Planets; they only have a forward motion. Retrograde movement of Planets, with 3 (or more) conjunctions of Planets as they move forward, reverse, and move forward again are an artifact of our Geocentric viewpoint, because the Earth is also moving around the Sun and all the Planets move at different rates, at different distances from the Sun. The reality from a Heliocentric viewpoint is that conjunctions are singular, not multiple, events and the Planets do not reverse their motion. Of course, we ARE on Earth, and what we actually see is just as important as that bigger reality we can perceive, at least in our minds (or for real if we leave the Earth and travel in Space). There is a reality in our line of sight relationship with Sun, Moon and Planets, and if the Electric Universe Theory is correct, there is a provable physical interaction between us and these Celestial Entities along these lines of sight by means of electric currents flowing instantaneously through ionized plasma. But as I have said, even here on Earth, the perspective is very different in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres. This has created difficulties for me in my life-long interest in Astrology, our first true Science, and probably the reason we invented Higher Mathematics. True Sidereal Astrology has resolved the other big problem I had, that Tropical Astrology was disconnected from the reality of what we see in the Sky. I hope to be part of this wonderful discussion you are opening up here and create a new inclusive Astrology that works in both Hemispheres.
Absolutely...as the beginnings of their conversation opened up, it became obvi that a new way to reestablish old-way of reading the sky is paramount. We may have to take it to the equator, specifically at a perfect 90°, and face neither North or south, but laying down with east at our feet. Sounds bizarre but there must be some middle of middle point.
The Sun appears to move clockwise why are all the houses numbered counterclockwise? The simplest answer that it’s the Earth that’s spinning not the Sun that’s moving. And so the houses are numbered in the order they rise above the horizon.
❤ ps just to add to this why are the houses divided into 12 houses shouldn't it be 13 houses also? ophiuchus house for healing would be placed between Scorpio and Sagittarius so ophiuchus would be 9th house Sagittarius 10 Capricorn 11 Aquarius 12 and Pisces 13 🤔
I attempt to calculate (since the Prometheus system is down) my true sidereal birth chart combined with Dorsan's clockwise house system method/theory. Very different from the usual Tropical counterclockwise method. Using the constellations and the alternate clockwise method produces a brand new way of looking at one's natal chart. Feel free to try it out for yourself.
Just when you get acquainted with the sky, ...🌋🌋🌋. Gosh, I love when you two get to talking. So much confusion which is felt, suddenly becomes worded. Not only did they change the sky, they changed the direction, thus weaving harm as Ike was stating.
Yes. So only the keepers truly know the secrets. Maybe that only the "old souls" who resonate at a higher vibration connect and share this knowledge.. Isaac Athen.. By sinewaves of voice! Word of Mouth.. Kybalion.. The Cosmos is speeding up. So must the karmic soul journey. Fast cellular vibratory evolution through quick karmic events and planetary vibrations are happening to all who have requested the fast track natal chart.. Some can't handle the Dark Night of Soul journey and are further more traumatized and confused and check out. The first step is for the awakened to be a healing council for after the karmic events have taken place. Helping to transmute the energy that was experienced and discharge it from the cellular dna. Jupiter is great but with all excessive energy comes chaos and thats when Saturn the Old Devil steps in. Old. English. saying.. "The Devil is in the details" Thanks for uncovering some great Ancient details Isaac.. Brilliant. Thanks Athen for helping us to keep our heads on. 😂🤯👁️🧝♀️
5:55 what if the reason I got into so much trouble when I used to listen/read my tropical chart was because I was following a disharmonious system? 😂 Not to blame it on astrology alone, but I can see how the "weaving counter-clockwise" had an impact on my life moving backwards and not in a harmonious way...
So how does that effect the ascendant ? For example if the ascendant is at one degree of ophiuchus does that mean that it is a cusp with scorpio (scorpio being in the rising house) ?
I've been passionate about astrology for years and I was mind blown when I read Jacque Dorsan's book. Since then, I've come up with some theories of my own. And one is that all the astrology systems (Regular Tropical, Dorsan's clockwise house system sidereal, and Vedic astrology) are all valid for different reasons. Even though perhaps, Dorsan's sidereal clockwise may be the most accurate, one can learn a lot from the other systems as well. Wouldn't it be nice if astrologers could work together to provide healing and guidance for those interested instead of arguing over which system is "more accurate?" How can the societal fear/distrust of metaphysical studies begin to fade away someday when we keep having to deal with arguments, spammers, frauds, and instantly dismissing al the pesudosciences without any prior knowledge? If one could combine all three (excluding Draconic and Heliocentric for simplicity sake for now) and look for similar themes in all three, it could probably tell a lot about the themes and traits of a person. After all, "as above, so below." For karma and going with the flow, there are opposite energies/waves. Like how gods and goddesses had different names but may have been the same entity, we as individuals are very complex and may require several zodiac systems to describe us. I think all of us are supposed to work with opposing energies (yin/yang, clockwise and counterclockwise, masculine/feminine, material/spiritual etc.) and achieve balance. And as for whether reincarnation is real or not, that'll be a lesson to find for ourselves after we've lived our lives as best as we can. swimluva02.blogspot.com/2022/01/astrotrinity.html
What is usually the 12th house becomes the clockwise ascendant, the house above the ascendant line instead of below it. The clockwise MC is where the traditional 9th house is.@@tessabrown3749
Minute 11:17 The twelfth house may not become the house of beginnings, rather the whole house system would we flip, like a pancake, and then rotating in the clockwise direction.?.
Insanely interesting...I need way more time in the day to explore these things! I've checked out the comments, but still am not sure on how this translates...in the clockwise system do you flip the bottom of the chart to the top and vice versa? Or, do you count clockwise making what was the 12th house in counterclockwise is now the 1st, the 11th is now the 2nd, etc? I'm just trying to translate this into my own chart to understand it. Thanks again for this discussion and would LOVE a webinar!
Hey Julie, Yes exactly, just count from the East horizon so what is now the 12 will be 1 and what is now 2 will be 11. from Earths position this is how we see the planets moving in the sky, the Diurnal movement.
@@SiderealAstrologist Thank you - that explains it beautifully. So if we take the original counterclockwise interpretation, add the clockwise view, then add the shadow charts Athen talked about - the depth in understanding opens up quite a bit. Thanks again!
Interesting perspective. Already having Saturn in my 12 counter clockwise, i see this as being my last reincarnation. Now looking at it from the clockwise perspective, is Saturn now in my 1st house?
Liken it to watching a wheel turning quickly on the circumference but seeing the center of that wheel spin slowly backward; like retrograde. The counterclockwise IS NOT real!!! This video can literally set us all freeeeeee!!!!
Granted this is an old video...in regards to progression how does that affect the onset of the age of aquarius in this 21st century given western astrology says it's full comings in will be 2117 ?
So would our ascendant change to the 12th house sign or would we shift our original ascendant to the clockwise 1st, because that’s the sign on the East, just curious how that would play out?
Very intriguing and it makes sense in a way, thanks for sharing. My question is then how would noon which is midheaven time in clockwise system be connected to the cusp of 4th house which is about home and roots? Should we then just change or flip the meaning of these houses like say 4th and 10th house?
So in clockwise system 4th house would mean public life and the tenth house would mean home and roots? Then what about the interpretation of second house or 5th house and all the rest of the houses? Also the transit planets would be moving counterclockwise too, how would that work in the clockwise system? Would love to have a live UA-cam discussion with you and Isaac about this subject.
Yes from what I see and have worked with the 4th house becomes your public career self. My experience with applying the clockwise house system seems to be the strongest when we are looking at the 12/1 house the rising and also the 6/7 the setting. Ive gotten most accurate responses with those areas.
@@baranovna1 Yes I think the next video on this could be possible. I just replied to a comment earlier saying that in my experience I found that applying the clockwise system to the 12/1 houses and the 6/7 houses really had a strong response in the readings. Im still new at working with this and seeing results if you want to go deeper find that book called The Clockwise House System by Jaques Dorsen here is the link www.amazon.com/Clockwise-House-System-Jacques-Dorsan-ebook/dp/B005SG81FW
I love it!! Thanks both of you! Question: if you look down from above magnetic north the planets are def moving counter-clockwise, but doesn't that mean if you look "up" from underneath (under-stand) they are moving clockwise? If that's true, then it's more relative, and maybe astrology needs to shift from masculine (positive - magnetic north) to feminine (negative - magnetic south) in its orientation to encompass this?
If this is true why do my 1st house placements strongly affect my appearance and personality? I have moon/pluto in 1st house i look very scorpio, i am very magnetic and have a very dreamy moon like appearance. My sun is in 12th i don't feel or see it's affect on me. The Sun appears to move clockwise why are all the houses numbered counterclockwise? The simplest answer that it’s the Earth that’s spinning, not the Sun that’s moving. And so the houses are numbered in the order they rise above the horizon. The houses are numbered correctly you can see this from analyzing peoples charts i do use sidereal because the signs are wrong.
Hi Jewel, yes we're just saying that looking at the clockwise chart might be able to give us additional information. I totally agree that the current counter-clockwise chart is accurate. However the clockwise chart might also show us something else.
@@MasteringthezodiacThanks for your reply Athen! I have nothing against reading the natal chart around the other way however i can not deny my first house placements they shape my appearance and personality drastically !
Right. So. This is one small part of what I've been studying for years now. My main interest is who are we, how/why did we begin existing, how did we begin to understand and make sense of the world we live in, who else is in the Universe and what is our relationship to them, what are our narratives, how are they similar/different, how/why did we get to this tragic mess we're in now and how will it end? This is a cross-disciplinary inquiry since it must collect info from philosophy, psychology, spirituality, religion, science, math, linguistics, etc. etc. etc Briefly and Generally: I've noticed that the most primitive religious systems were usually shamanic and that they didn't have Astrology as we know it, but some of them did have some star lore. The Cultures that developed Astrology generally advanced in the materialistic sense, but not necessarily in the values that keep us happy and peaceful and living sustainably on the Planet. What's up with that? We gained religion, but it generally reflects a disconnection with ourselves, one another and the World we live on. I realize that there have been religious geniuses who tried to solve that problem, but ultimately, these attempts failed. Astrology is not going away and "we can't go home again". So how do we go forward? What kind of Astrology and Narrative can we create that will solve the problem? I am trying to create a system that has the Trad-Astrology as a first phase, then shifts to a Sidereal/Heliocentric and ultimately Universal Astrology. It's an exercise in perspective-taking; shifting our perspective from self-centric to Universe-inclusive. Not Universe-centric, because that would mean losing details and we have to have details in order to orient ourselves while we're still living in bodies on a planet. *_What I am trying to create is an awareness that includes the orientations of every being on every world and at every level of existence and also a Central Observer._* I think, ultimately, the "chart" is going to have to be discarded and replaced by a 3-D Model that moves. We need software for that. Building one out of materials would be too difficult and inconvenient. I see nearly all Astrological Systems in use today trying to integrate our mundane existence with something more Cosmic and Eternal. But they are limited by the Systems they are using. All of them. We need something better. ☕🥐🌌
Almost forgot: While trying to reconcile Astrology with the "Pagan Wheel of the Year", I saw this clockwise/counterclockwise problem. And I read somewhere that some guy figured out that it had to be drawn backwards and he had a good reason. I can't remember who, but it was a very long time ago. Either way, for folks living in the Southern Hemisphere, they need to orient themselves the other way around anyway. There is one way to tell which way to go to keep us locked down here: which direction does water go down the drain in your area? Going the other direction will bring _your_ perspective out and away from the World. But just like Isaac said, we have work to do here, so trying to escape is not actually what we need to be doing. Getting a bigger perspective, however, will bring more information to do better work and it will also better prepare us for our eventual exit. I suspect there will be a very limited number of "Clients" who will want this kind of Astrology. As we all know, most people seek answers to self-centered questions from Astrology: who will I marry? How many kids will I have? How wealthy will I be? How will I die? etc. Only those who are asking the Bigger Questions will want this. IMO, it's worthwhile to specialize.
Check out Isaac's website at:
www.siderealastrologist.com/
And Facebook group:
facebook.com/groups/282202525729886/
This has sense to it. I wondered why the travel of the Sun from the AS on the anti-clockwise chart didn't correspond to the houses and the evolution of the soul's experience.
I pride myself on finding the best info to my ears. I was listening to the Light Body of Osiris earlier. When your guest mentioned Amenta/ the Earth / Physical Body being a prison for the soul. Then speaking on escaping reincarnation. Then the program on Zeg TV mentioned the teachings of the Karest being universal in 13 🌟 systems. #Ophiuchus
Wow!! Just read my chart in a clock-wise direction and it makes soooo much sense. Thank you so very much ❤
This is suuuper interesting and I will definitely be experimenting with this. I asked about why the first house was opposite to where the planet was rising in an evolutionary course I as taking, but my teacher didn't really have an answer and I assumed there was just some astronomical understanding that was above my head. Would love to hear more on this topic, thank you for the work you are doing!
I read charts clockwise. I wasn't aware of this video until today. It's interesting to hear the share because to me it's intuitive to break karma with this version of reading the chart as South, Midheaven, noon, full moon, summer solstice & North, IC, and midnight, new moon, winter solstice. I also use the Solstices and Equinoxes as the peak of a season not the onset. Flip the compass, to flip the story if you want heaven on earth!
Hey Athen. Awesome video between you guys. Love all the connections with Hermetic & Manley P Hall ( LOve his work) Also the connections with Karma, which also brings us to past lives or even future lives.. So we can be more guided maybe in our lessons/choices in this incarnation?. Is this also where The Intuitive aspects come into reading a chart? I could listen to a 2-hour session between you two :) Defo gave me much food for thought.. Thoroughly enjoyed this, Thank you. ( I can't wait to be able to do your course in the future :) As always Much love Mx
🦋❤🌠 This is so important; we will definitely do work in the future on this topic and others Athen. Thank you again for doing amazing works of understanding and discovering more truths! I had to address this perspective in my astrology course in college and it was very interesting.
That was out there and i like it Issac
When using whole sign houses, a lot of the times, the 12th house in quadrant house systems become the 1st house in whole sign, no need to invert house numbers. If anything, gauquelin's discoveries support whole sign house system. Mars in the 12th house in quadrant house systems, is often mars in the first house whole sign.
Thank you for this discussion. Tropical Astrology is not well suited for people living in Southern Hemisphere countries as our seasons differ. Directions NSEW are the same wherever a person lives with Polaris North Node, Ascendant E, Descendant W. Equinox & Solistices are same dates but opposite seasons.
I used Astronomy Apps to map natal planets then compared to Sidereal Astrology. Happy to find both were very similar! (Exceptions 1. Sidereal placed True Cusps into 1 constellation rather than both. Sidereal didn't recognize constellations Augira or Coma Berenice. It placed planets into Taurus and Virgo).
Before your discussion I was, like many others, perplexed why Astrology Charts draw ASC on LHS when ASC describes East Direction sky & psychology... Likewise DES is on RHS but describes West Direction. North & South directions refer to Above & Below horizon physically, psychologically, mythologically. That ASc-Des convention seems confused and makes it difficult for people who want to use Astrology to stay attuned to Astronomical stars, directions, seasons, transits.
Wow, excellent food for thought!
Thanks so very much for featuring Isaac. Mahalos!
I really resonate with this! Thank you for bringing this up. My guides gave me the number 11 to confirm illumination✨
We don't have any karma! They came! They made us! We are the manifest of their karma! It is not for us to clear. It is theirs!!!!
@14:01.
We should read ourselves clockwise! This is a phenomenal breakthrough!
Wow, this is really interesting. Duality applied to time or the perception of events instead of opposing elements. Great stuff!
Really interesting and useful to open up for discussion. I'd just like to point out that what you are saying is true for the Northern Hemisphere, where you look to the South to see the Sun Moon and Zodiac Constellations moving in the sky along the Ecliptic clockwise, from East to West. Here in the Southern Hemisphere we look North to see the Ecliptic Band, and this movement of Sun Moon and Zodiac Constellations appears to us, South of the Equator, to be in a anticlockwise direction from East to West. East and West are still in the same place, the Sun is still moving in the same direction, but an observer in the Northern Hemisphere sees this from the opposite perspective to an observer in the Southern Hemisphere. An analogy is looking in a mirror, where your right hand appears to be on the left and your left hand appears to be on the right. Picture yourself, North of Equator, looking South to see the Sun, and picture me, facing you, looking North to see the Sun, and you can see that I am your mirror-image, and the Sun, always moving in the same direction, appears to move clockwise to you, and anticlockwise to me.
All of this is a product of our Earth-bound (Geocentric) point of view. If we could step outside the Earth and stand in the heart of the Sun, to see the Planets from a Heliocentric (sun-centred) vantage point, things are different. For example, from a Heliocentric point of view, there is no Retrograde movement of Planets; they only have a forward motion. Retrograde movement of Planets, with 3 (or more) conjunctions of Planets as they move forward, reverse, and move forward again are an artifact of our Geocentric viewpoint, because the Earth is also moving around the Sun and all the Planets move at different rates, at different distances from the Sun. The reality from a Heliocentric viewpoint is that conjunctions are singular, not multiple, events and the Planets do not reverse their motion.
Of course, we ARE on Earth, and what we actually see is just as important as that bigger reality we can perceive, at least in our minds (or for real if we leave the Earth and travel in Space). There is a reality in our line of sight relationship with Sun, Moon and Planets, and if the Electric Universe Theory is correct, there is a provable physical interaction between us and these Celestial Entities along these lines of sight by means of electric currents flowing instantaneously through ionized plasma.
But as I have said, even here on Earth, the perspective is very different in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres. This has created difficulties for me in my life-long interest in Astrology, our first true Science, and probably the reason we invented Higher Mathematics. True Sidereal Astrology has resolved the other big problem I had, that Tropical Astrology was disconnected from the reality of what we see in the Sky. I hope to be part of this wonderful discussion you are opening up here and create a new inclusive Astrology that works in both Hemispheres.
Absolutely...as the beginnings of their conversation opened up, it became obvi that a new way to reestablish old-way of reading the sky is paramount.
We may have to take it to the equator, specifically at a perfect 90°, and face neither North or south, but laying down with east at our feet.
Sounds bizarre but there must be some middle of middle point.
This makes sense, like sidereal astrology. Something new to learn!
The Sun appears to move clockwise why are all the houses numbered counterclockwise?
The simplest answer that it’s the Earth that’s spinning not the Sun that’s moving. And so the houses are numbered in the order they rise above the horizon.
Wow what a interesting guy bit over my head but maybe I need to study his philosophy fascinating.
Wonderful! Thank you guys 🤩💖💖
The first house works on whole house, where the 12th house change to 1st house.
❤ ps just to add to this why are the houses divided into 12 houses shouldn't it be 13 houses also? ophiuchus house for healing would be placed between Scorpio and Sagittarius so ophiuchus would be 9th house Sagittarius 10 Capricorn 11 Aquarius 12 and Pisces 13 🤔
I attempt to calculate (since the Prometheus system is down) my true sidereal birth chart combined with Dorsan's clockwise house system method/theory. Very different from the usual Tropical counterclockwise method. Using the constellations and the alternate clockwise method produces a brand new way of looking at one's natal chart. Feel free to try it out for yourself.
Just when you get acquainted with the sky, ...🌋🌋🌋.
Gosh, I love when you two get to talking. So much confusion which is felt, suddenly becomes worded.
Not only did they change the sky, they changed the direction, thus weaving harm as Ike was stating.
Yes. So only the keepers truly know the secrets. Maybe that only the "old souls" who resonate at a higher vibration connect and share this knowledge.. Isaac Athen.. By sinewaves of voice! Word of Mouth.. Kybalion.. The Cosmos is speeding up. So must the karmic soul journey. Fast cellular vibratory evolution through quick karmic events and planetary vibrations are happening to all who have requested the fast track natal chart.. Some can't handle the Dark Night of Soul journey and are further more traumatized and confused and check out. The first step is for the awakened to be a healing council for after the karmic events have taken place. Helping to transmute the energy that was experienced and discharge it from the cellular dna. Jupiter is great but with all excessive energy comes chaos and thats when Saturn the Old Devil steps in.
Old. English. saying.. "The Devil is in the details" Thanks for uncovering some great Ancient details Isaac.. Brilliant. Thanks Athen for helping us to keep our heads on. 😂🤯👁️🧝♀️
5:55 what if the reason I got into so much trouble when I used to listen/read my tropical chart was because I was following a disharmonious system? 😂 Not to blame it on astrology alone, but I can see how the "weaving counter-clockwise" had an impact on my life moving backwards and not in a harmonious way...
So how does that effect the ascendant ? For example if the ascendant is at one degree of ophiuchus does that mean that it is a cusp with scorpio (scorpio being in the rising house) ?
A hooked cross counter clockwise is bad luck in Native culture rotation like e to w is good fortune in my opinion
I've been passionate about astrology for years and I was mind blown when I read Jacque Dorsan's book. Since then, I've come up with some theories of my own. And one is that all the astrology systems (Regular Tropical, Dorsan's clockwise house system sidereal, and Vedic astrology) are all valid for different reasons. Even though perhaps, Dorsan's sidereal clockwise may be the most accurate, one can learn a lot from the other systems as well. Wouldn't it be nice if astrologers could work together to provide healing and guidance for those interested instead of arguing over which system is "more accurate?" How can the societal fear/distrust of metaphysical studies begin to fade away someday when we keep having to deal with arguments, spammers, frauds, and instantly dismissing al the pesudosciences without any prior knowledge? If one could combine all three (excluding Draconic and Heliocentric for simplicity sake for now) and look for similar themes in all three, it could probably tell a lot about the themes and traits of a person. After all, "as above, so below." For karma and going with the flow, there are opposite energies/waves. Like how gods and goddesses had different names but may have been the same entity, we as individuals are very complex and may require several zodiac systems to describe us. I think all of us are supposed to work with opposing energies (yin/yang, clockwise and counterclockwise, masculine/feminine, material/spiritual etc.) and achieve balance. And as for whether reincarnation is real or not, that'll be a lesson to find for ourselves after we've lived our lives as best as we can.
swimluva02.blogspot.com/2022/01/astrotrinity.html
On clockwise which house do I start with a d where is mc at
What is usually the 12th house becomes the clockwise ascendant, the house above the ascendant line instead of below it. The clockwise MC is where the traditional 9th house is.@@tessabrown3749
ohhh this is so exciting ^_^
Minute 11:17
The twelfth house may not become the house of beginnings, rather the whole house system would we flip, like a pancake, and then rotating in the clockwise direction.?.
Insanely interesting...I need way more time in the day to explore these things! I've checked out the comments, but still am not sure on how this translates...in the clockwise system do you flip the bottom of the chart to the top and vice versa? Or, do you count clockwise making what was the 12th house in counterclockwise is now the 1st, the 11th is now the 2nd, etc? I'm just trying to translate this into my own chart to understand it. Thanks again for this discussion and would LOVE a webinar!
Hey Julie, Yes exactly, just count from the East horizon so what is now the 12 will be 1 and what is now 2 will be 11. from Earths position this is how we see the planets moving in the sky, the Diurnal movement.
@@SiderealAstrologist Thank you - that explains it beautifully. So if we take the original counterclockwise interpretation, add the clockwise view, then add the shadow charts Athen talked about - the depth in understanding opens up quite a bit. Thanks again!
@@SiderealAstrologist is the 4th house the mc?
12:44 Can you give a book/chapter/verse on that Hermetic text? Because this actually matches my lived experience.
Interesting perspective. Already having Saturn in my 12 counter clockwise, i see this as being my last reincarnation. Now looking at it from the clockwise perspective, is Saturn now in my 1st house?
Yeah in the clockwise chart Saturn would be in your 1st.
@@Masteringthezodiac mind. Blown.
Liken it to watching a wheel turning quickly on the circumference but seeing the center of that wheel spin slowly backward; like retrograde. The counterclockwise IS NOT real!!!
This video can literally set us all freeeeeee!!!!
Granted this is an old video...in regards to progression how does that affect the onset of the age of aquarius in this 21st century given western astrology says it's full comings in will be 2117 ?
So would our ascendant change to the 12th house sign or would we shift our original ascendant to the clockwise 1st, because that’s the sign on the East, just curious how that would play out?
Super interesting!
Couple comments: karma doesn’t exist. You won’t make your final incarnation before millions and millions of years of incarnating from now.
You guys are so young 🙂
Right Brain / Left Brain!!!
This is literally so rich in info that I have to take and savor small bites ata time; 3 min increments.
Very intriguing and it makes sense in a way, thanks for sharing.
My question is then how would noon which is midheaven time in clockwise system be connected to the cusp of 4th house which is about home and roots? Should we then just change or flip the meaning of these houses like say 4th and 10th house?
It appears that way yeah.
So in clockwise system 4th house would mean public life and the tenth house would mean home and roots? Then what about the interpretation of second house or 5th house and all the rest of the houses?
Also the transit planets would be moving counterclockwise too, how would that work in the clockwise system?
Would love to have a live UA-cam discussion with you and Isaac about this subject.
Yes from what I see and have worked with the 4th house becomes your public career self. My experience with applying the clockwise house system seems to be the strongest when we are looking at the 12/1 house the rising and also the 6/7 the setting. Ive gotten most accurate responses with those areas.
@@baranovna1 Yes I think the next video on this could be possible. I just replied to a comment earlier saying that in my experience I found that applying the clockwise system to the 12/1 houses and the 6/7 houses really had a strong response in the readings. Im still new at working with this and seeing results if you want to go deeper find that book called The Clockwise House System by Jaques Dorsen here is the link www.amazon.com/Clockwise-House-System-Jacques-Dorsan-ebook/dp/B005SG81FW
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I love it!! Thanks both of you! Question: if you look down from above magnetic north the planets are def moving counter-clockwise, but doesn't that mean if you look "up" from underneath (under-stand) they are moving clockwise? If that's true, then it's more relative, and maybe astrology needs to shift from masculine (positive - magnetic north) to feminine (negative - magnetic south) in its orientation to encompass this?
one who finds the secrets of heaven shall inherit the earth..
If this is true why do my 1st house placements strongly affect my appearance and personality? I have moon/pluto in 1st house i look very scorpio, i am very magnetic and have a very dreamy moon like appearance. My sun is in 12th i don't feel or see it's affect on me. The Sun appears to move clockwise why are all the houses numbered counterclockwise?
The simplest answer that it’s the Earth that’s spinning, not the Sun that’s moving. And so the houses are numbered in the order they rise above the horizon. The houses are numbered correctly you can see this from analyzing peoples charts i do use sidereal because the signs are wrong.
Hi Jewel, yes we're just saying that looking at the clockwise chart might be able to give us additional information. I totally agree that the current counter-clockwise chart is accurate. However the clockwise chart might also show us something else.
@@MasteringthezodiacThanks for your reply Athen! I have nothing against reading the natal chart around the other way however i can not deny my first house placements they shape my appearance and personality drastically
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Right.
So. This is one small part of what I've been studying for years now. My main interest is who are we, how/why did we begin existing, how did we begin to understand and make sense of the world we live in, who else is in the Universe and what is our relationship to them, what are our narratives, how are they similar/different, how/why did we get to this tragic mess we're in now and how will it end? This is a cross-disciplinary inquiry since it must collect info from philosophy, psychology, spirituality, religion, science, math, linguistics, etc. etc. etc
Briefly and Generally: I've noticed that the most primitive religious systems were usually shamanic and that they didn't have Astrology as we know it, but some of them did have some star lore. The Cultures that developed Astrology generally advanced in the materialistic sense, but not necessarily in the values that keep us happy and peaceful and living sustainably on the Planet. What's up with that? We gained religion, but it generally reflects a disconnection with ourselves, one another and the World we live on. I realize that there have been religious geniuses who tried to solve that problem, but ultimately, these attempts failed. Astrology is not going away and "we can't go home again". So how do we go forward?
What kind of Astrology and Narrative can we create that will solve the problem?
I am trying to create a system that has the Trad-Astrology as a first phase, then shifts to a Sidereal/Heliocentric and ultimately Universal Astrology. It's an exercise in perspective-taking; shifting our perspective from self-centric to Universe-inclusive. Not Universe-centric, because that would mean losing details and we have to have details in order to orient ourselves while we're still living in bodies on a planet. *_What I am trying to create is an awareness that includes the orientations of every being on every world and at every level of existence and also a Central Observer._*
I think, ultimately, the "chart" is going to have to be discarded and replaced by a 3-D Model that moves. We need software for that. Building one out of materials would be too difficult and inconvenient.
I see nearly all Astrological Systems in use today trying to integrate our mundane existence with something more Cosmic and Eternal. But they are limited by the Systems they are using. All of them.
We need something better.
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Almost forgot:
While trying to reconcile Astrology with the "Pagan Wheel of the Year", I saw this clockwise/counterclockwise problem. And I read somewhere that some guy figured out that it had to be drawn backwards and he had a good reason. I can't remember who, but it was a very long time ago.
Either way, for folks living in the Southern Hemisphere, they need to orient themselves the other way around anyway. There is one way to tell which way to go to keep us locked down here: which direction does water go down the drain in your area?
Going the other direction will bring _your_ perspective out and away from the World.
But just like Isaac said, we have work to do here, so trying to escape is not actually what we need to be doing. Getting a bigger perspective, however, will bring more information to do better work and it will also better prepare us for our eventual exit.
I suspect there will be a very limited number of "Clients" who will want this kind of Astrology. As we all know, most people seek answers to self-centered questions from Astrology: who will I marry? How many kids will I have? How wealthy will I be? How will I die? etc. Only those who are asking the Bigger Questions will want this. IMO, it's worthwhile to specialize.
Clockwise. Chinese astrology is clockwise. Same 12 houses.