NSW TrainLink sells more tickets to Canberra than any other destination outside Sydney. It's very popular despite the modest frequency and slightly longer travel time than a coach or driving. Thanks for the video - some nice footage that reminded me how pleasant it is to take the train!
It's wild that the journey is so slow. Canberra and Sydney are the perfect distance for medium/high speed rail, and yet it we still don't have it. Flying seems so ridiculous, but that is the fastest way, even though the plane barely reaches cruising altitude before starting to descend into Canberra. Not everyone wants to, or is able to, drive, so the train should really be the number 1 choice. Lots of work to do to make it happen.
@@PlanetPatrick fingers crossed. Doesn't have to be true high-speed rail. But surely we can improve speed (by at least 1 hour), and frequency (at least hourly, if not half-hourly).
insane isnt. nation's capital and international gateway to australia not linked together. flights are always delayed by fog, this route would be so popular not only with business folk but tourists as well. at least the journey will be more comfortable when the new regional trains arrive.
I use this service quite often, it is a somewhat slow but a pleasant ride with nice scenary. I enjoy the on board catering and being able to sit back and read or do computer stuff if needed.
@@Swadaable Yes I have noticed how Australians are flocking to India to enjoy wifi on train. However, personally I don't use.public WiFi. My computer uses a G4/G5 modem that operates flawlessly most of the way (except in tunnels).
And not just that, getting to central gives you all the Sydney public transport at your disposal. If arriving by air, you pay the $16:50 platform tax just to get on the train.
The problem with people talking about flight times is that they never account for how early you have to get there to get through security, and make sure to get to your gate early for boarding, etc, etc. If I have the option, I will take a longer train journey when I can just walk up to the platform and step onto a train any day! Last time flying to Canberra was a nightmare, and I only flew because all the train seats were already booked
Yes , all that and the wait for your luggage to appear on the carrousel , wait for bus / train/ taxi/ Uber and the expense of them, or the walk to the car park and the parking fees...
LOL, flown from Newcastle to Melbourne twice this year, would have been quicker driving. not accounting for travel to and from each airport, first flight out of Newcastle was 8 hour delay yes 8 HOURS, second time - different carrier was 5 hours, on the return was also a total of 2 1/2 hours. getting the train, you would be lucky to be on a train, more than likely cancelled and tossed onto a bus. Next time we will save all the hastle and time by driving down.
@@Respectable_Username That's just not true. You have to be really late to miss a flight. They will usually even call you name a few times. Try that wit the train. Door in Sydney trains will rather decapitate You than create an extra delay.
Quite enjoyed your review. It was informative without being boring and it convinced me that train is the way to go when I head back to Sydney to catch my flight home after visiting family in Canberra. You have a very soothing voice and manner.
On recent trip to Japan I travelled on the Shinkansen from Hiroshima to Kyoto. (400km) It’s way longer in distance for example then Canberra to Sydney. It took like 1 hour 35 minutes. Amazing. I wish we had a bullet train in Australia.
I had a week's work in Canberra a couple of years back and got the train down and back. It was much less hassle at both ends, as my hotel was only a short Uber ride away and it avoided a long drive to/from the airport in Sydney as well as the hassle of early check-in, security, etc. The trip down in the daytime was very pleasant; I got some work done, read a book and chatted to the lady seated next to me, while enjoying the scenery. The Friday evening return trip was mostly in the drak and I wasn't as easily amused after a hard work week. The food wasn't bad, both ways, and the price was definitely more reasonable than flying, even though I wasn't paying. I enjoyed it and would definitely do it again.
For people who live in Bungendore and Tarago,they really don't have much choice as it's the only train service they have without having to worry about having to get driven to Yass Junction or Goulburn to catch the train.
Used to take this train in the 80s when I was at Usyd. No change in the length of the trip it seems. Nowadays I just drive, quicker than flight and train. Hoping to see a bullet train between Canberra and Sydney in my life time!
Great review mate, I lived briefly in Canberra between 2015 and 2016 and got the Murrays or Greyhound coach quite a lot to Sydney via the airport was always a very cost effective and almost always on time 3 - 3.5 hours depending on where you went - there pretty well run hourly like a bus schedule from early morning to late at night. When I got the train last year I enjoyed the scenery of the journey absolutely but with track works and signalling delays it took over 5 hours and then we came into Sydney right during peak hour further slowing things down. You're right though if you just want to enjoy the journey and relax and be free to move around it's a fine way to go. I think the coach is usually the better option for regular travel though or indeed driving if you have a car. It's also a pity the station is not in civic either so it's not on the doorstop of Civic so its a pretty lengthy walk or a quick bus to get there but I guess close to the parliamentary circle at least! It's absurd how much the quick flight is though only really makes sense to utilise flying if connecting through Sydney to or from another flight as the time saving wouldn't be that great by the time you travel, from and through the airport!
It's crazy when a coach service is faster than the train! I get the technical reasons why this is such a slow service, for sure, but if it were more frequent and faster (and better situated), I'm sure there are the volumes of people going either direction that would make use of the train service. Good to have your experience and insight - thanks for commenting!
@@PlanetPatrick Why is it "crazy" when all but the suburban area at both ends is a straight four lane Motorway with 100/110kph limits.Bus drops off at Canberra CBD also.
Hey mate! One quick advice which might really help you in the long term. This video was the first video of yours that YT showed me in my feed and you surely already noticed that it is outperforming most other videos with the exception of your Air Canada video. The common denominator is the specific way you set up the thumbnail: close up of your face on the left/ in the foreground and long-shot of the subject in the background/ on the right. The two simple reasons for this setup working wonders is that .. 1. human are visually attracted to other humans face 2. we usually read or visualize from left to right (with exceptions) You surely are aware of most of those things but I really think that sticking to such a thumbnail format will massively boost the growth of your channel. And not to brag or sth but marketing is my bread and butter so I know one or two things when it comes to design, psychology and similar topics :D Everything is meant in a constructive way but I hope you know this. Best regards! :)
Great video. Should be noted that the NSW Govt is beginning to replace the regional rail fleet (all XPT, XPLORER and Endeavours) with new Spanish built bi-mode trains. Unfortunately nothing being done about the alignment for now
@@PlanetPatrickthe CAF seats are much worse and doesn't have any sleeping cars for the 11 hour train journey to Melbourne. The speed will be virtually the same as these trains are limited by the tracks rather than the rolling stock
I used to get that train to Sydney in the seventies. On one trip they loaded up the train and left. A few miles out they stopped the train for several hours because they were working on the line. Amazing
I travel from Casino in northern NSW to Sydney at least once a year. There are two trains, the day train and the night train with a sleeper carriage. The trip is about 850km and takes 11 hours. On the day train, the sleeper cabins are converted to a three seat compartment with all the leg room you could possibly need, and as I'm 194cm, I need a lot. The NSW Government gives pensioners four free journeys on trains every year. I use two of my free journeys for the trip to Sydney. They are economy class but with the addition of $45 for the return journey, I get one of the day-sitter seats. Very often, I am the only person in the compartment so I can stretch out. The buffet car provides hot meals, drinks and snacks. The train is clean and comfortable, and showers and toilets are shared between two day-sitter compartments. I cant fly, drive or take the bus from Casino to Sydney return for $45 so why would I not take the train?
Much the same , $40 return from Coffs Harbour. NSW Trains make a huge annual loss the government has to carry, but it spends a lot more on Motorways and football stadiums which are also subsidies to the people who benefit in those cases.
Interesting video. Many years ago, I rode in the Canberra Monaro Express train between Canberra and Sydney. That was back in the day, when I lived in Sydney. My last trip to Canberra was in October 1977. So, I would gather there have been a lot of changes since then. Heading to Canberra back in my day, the train used to split in half at Queanbeyan, with one half heading on to Canberra and the other half heading to Bombala via Cooma.
You probably noticed the massive renovations/building work at Central Station anyhow this has now been completed with the new underground Metro line platforms (Metro from Central now joins with tunnels under the harbor to the existing Metro line that goes north west from the city) due to open in the next week or so.
Train travel has its own relaxed charm. Since when has it been obligatory to always expect to arrive before you left ? Relax....let someone else do the driving......walk a bit.... you remember how to walk don't you ? AND you can get snacks & drinks without having to stop.......sweet.
I love train travel so it’s a no brainer for me. But this route seems to be a bug bear for lots of people who would love a very reliable commutable fast train service.
A bit of history. New South Wales (NSW) built a branch line from the main line at Goulbourn to Bombala, via Tarago, Bungendore, Queanbeyan and Cooma. An extension from Queanbeyan to the new town/city of Canberra was built, in the early '20s, by the Commonwealth of Australia and run by Commonwealth Railways. Eventually, NSW took over the Commonwealth Railways bit and that's what we have today. For the last 30-40 years there has been both talk and investigation of a Very Fast Train link between Canberra and Sydney, but nothing has happened yet! One thing is for sure, though - the VFT will not go via Queanbeyan, Bungendore and Tarago!
@@PlanetPatrickKingston isn’t the 1920’s terminus The line traveled a cross the Molongalo River to Lansdale St in Civic, that part of the line was terminated after the the abridge was damage in a flood & the Federal Government chose not to build a rail bridge back over Lake Burley Griffin
Next problem, of course is what other route could it take? Gradients aren't a problem for Very Fast Trains running on electrified lines, but curvature is, so the existing route isn't an option. A new line from Canberra to Yass has been suggested, but then travellers to Sydney face the notoriously difficult section between Yass and Goulburn. And we still have to try and speed up that long descent from Goulburn to Sydney. There also seems to be a lot of confusion in this country about what a Very Fast Line actually is for and how it works. For example, it's often suggested that a Melbourne-Sydney VFT will encourage commuters from country towns, when the whole point of VFTs is that they don't keep stopping.
And then there was the "pioneer" line from Cooma to Bombala, the only railway in the country, I believe, where a train has got stuck in snow drifts. Bits of the line, embankments and trestles, can still be seen from the highway.
A dozen or more years ago, I caught the train to Canberra. My wife and our young son had driven down a couple of days earlier but I had some work to attend to. While I could have flown, I thought I'd give the train a try. That one trip was enough to say never again. While the train was comfortable and pretty punctual, the reasonably short journey just took forever. An equivalent journey in Europe would have been about half the time.
Yes, I think that’s right - this was by far the slowest way to get to Sydney where in the UK or Germany, the train is (mostly) the fastest method over 1-2 hour routes.
European intercity lines were built with gentle gradients and sweeping curves from the beginning, and usually double track. Australian railway lines were of necessity built on the cheap as single track, with winding reverse curves and steep gradients. Furthermore, as already mentioned, the line from Canberra is a branch line of a branch line, which has to wind its way along the Molonglo Gorge. Rebuilding the line would cost a fortune, which could never be justified by traffic potential, in the face of air and road coach competition.
I took it during COVID and I was often the only passenger between CBR and Bungendore. After COVID it became really busy because flights became expensive between CBR and SYD so I take the Bungendore bus
Speaking as someone who has done it many times, the short answer is you wouldn't, unless you are subsidised pensioner travelling on the taxpayer's largess The railway line goes the long way around Lake Georgeas compared to the road, so the journey takes an hour longer than the bus. On top of this once you do arrive the station in Canberra is inconveniently located south of the lake on the edge of town. The buses are full sized coaches which leave every hour, are modern, comfortable and clean, and the bus station is close to the centre of the city
@@timor64 The journey is often the most interesting part,not the destination.Train trips are another world,and the scenery options are usually way better.Hastles at airport security,road traffic snarls,or relax on the train.
Utterly absurd that we cannot catch a train to Canberra from Melbourne. The Victorian Velocity trains are much better. I like your choice of background music in your episodes. Well done!
You have to be utterly joking. The Velocity’s are one of the most stupid long distance regional trains I have the unfortunate need to use. They are basically a tricked up suburban commuter train with rubbish seating crammed in and close together. Few have tray tables and no power sockets. And there idea to expand capacity due to over crowding was to remove toilets. Gunzels wet their pants over them because they have streamlined fronts. In every other case they are a step backwards. And running them in 3 car sets so you have 2 separate trains if joined together - so if the buffet is in one section the other 50% of the train can’t get to it - wtf?
I remember well over 25 years ago, when these trains were the shiny new thing. Luxury. I travelled with my baby in the xpt... during my 20s. They are "outdated"- but not as outdated as the tracks they travel on. Regardless, they are a comfortable, scenic option which is budget friendly. For many in rural areas, they are a vital lifeline to access specialists etc.
Just caught the XPT from Brisbane to northern NSW as its cheaper than driving and only takes a little bit longer. Very pleasant journey but 5am leaving Brisbane is rough.
@@nicolegardner7325 The northbound train arrives at about 4.30 am. The official excuse is that a more civilised arrival time would interfere with freight paths. I think the real reason is that they want to discourage people from using the train so that they can discontinue the service.
I get the XPT from mid North Coast NSW to Sydney and return twice a year. Nine hours train vs. six hours drive. I love it . I read , snooze , chat , gaze out the window , eat , and we're there. Both down trip and return leave 7 am which is great for daytime travel. At rural home I'm in the car all the bloody car all the time. Love catching buses , trains, ferries in Sydney and not driving in horrendous traffic and looking for parking and paying heaps for it.
The flight between Canberra and Sydney might be 40 minutes but in reality getting door to door from Canberra city Centre to Sydney city centre would take a comparable time by air and rail given that you have to get to and from airports, be at the departure airport an hour or so before the flight and wait for your luggage after you land.
No not really. How many are living in the CBD? So if you had to get from your home in Sydney or Canberra to the station, then train, then to your destination at the other end the time may be comparable if not longer. For example it takes me an hour to get to the airport. It takes me an hour to get to the CBd by another train. So 1+4 = 5 or 1+ 1 (get to airport early) + 40 mins = 2.40. Leave it to your to work out.
@@xr6lad A lot of people travel to Sydney CBD for business or recreation. Granted the time evens out if you are going elsewhere in greater Sydney and if you are heading to the Kogara area then air travel would be a lot quicker.
The timings have led to quite the debate in the comments. But it's a point well made, depending on where you're coming from/going to, the door to door timings might be closer than expected.
I take a similar service to the North Coast from Sydney each year to visit relatives. The main advantage over Economy is you get an extra slot for checked in baggage. Actual seating quality is very similar between Economy and First Class (I usually travel 1st, as the upgrade cost is relatively low, but had to travel Economy one year as I booked late.) There's much less stress on checkin and checkout than with a plane, it's slightly cheaper, and in general there's a lot more freedom to move around. As long as you keep a good book (or audiobook or handheld game, with headphones) on hand to make good use of your time, and you're not pressed for time, the train is a decent option. For the record, the trains to the mid north coast take about 8 hours. I think the CBR services stop more frequently.
@@PlanetPatrick Eight hours is not a long journey. How long was your flight from Pomgolia ? And you can freely move around on a train. Indian Pacific Sydney to Perth a couple of days and nights is a long train journey. I wrote above it's nine hours by train from my home to Sydney and I love it.
The last time I traveled on this service was in 2004. The trains are still the same. The seats were ex. Ansett Airlines on the set I was on. The train was good - because it dumped you directly into CBD. It was worth the extra hour for that.
CBR rail station should be relocated to CBR airport. Linking rail and air transport. You can also extend the tram line to CBR airport, tram rail air all linked in one stop.
As a Canberran I have taken the train to Sydney many times. It's actually pretty great. Yeah it's slow, but more legroom than the coach or plane, better bathrooms than coach or plane, and the buffet car. I like to switch off and just write on my laptop or read. I've long said that if they installed power outlets and wifi they'd corner the market.
Great review and thanks for sharing 👍 It’s hard though, to get your head around how half arsed the trains are in this state. They couldn’t restock the food car? They were in the national capital and yet it seems the local 7-11 has better stock than a NSW trains buffet carriage 😂
Well, there were sausage rolls, so better than nothing!! But yes, that's a good question, why do (almost none of) these services have decent food? The only one that really had/has is Virgin Trains in the UK, but no use to you in Canberra (or me wherever I am in the world).
Its cheaper than hot chips that's one reason .Also I'd take the train over greyhound,the last time I took one of their coaches the driver almost crashed 6 times. He was constantly on his mobile phone taking personal calls and dropping it on the floor .It was a nightmare trip .
You should've reported the driver for endangering his passengers' lives. I drove buses in Sydney Eastern Suburbs for five years with 50 to 100 passengers depending on bus size and was always aware I was responsible for them.
We've been trying to get a faster train for ages, but it always comes down to someone doing a cost-analysis of the status quo versus something going at 400km/hr. We only really need 100km/hr to beat the competition. The only thing in this review I'd take issue with is the idea that the flight is 40 minutes - its 40 minutes air time but of course an hour either side in probing and hassle and our airlines get off the ground as scheduled about 60% of the time. Take the train or the bus, see some cows, its far nicer.
Newcastle NSW was a very big manufacturing city. With Dockyards, railway workshops and BHP. Employing thousands of workers and apprentices. Today Newcastle is high rises and cafe's. Good luck trying to source Trades people for new contracts. Successive Governments have destroyed T.A.F.E's and manufacturing jobs. History now shows purchasing foreign made infrastructure is very expensive in the long run. Politicians only see the upfront cost not ongoing maintenance.
@@clydesimpson1462 I live in Newcastle. TAFE campuses in Hamilton and Islington used to overflow with students but a decision to allow pretty much anyone to call themselves an RTO and the withdrawal of pretty much all TAFE funding has destroyed both campuses. They're like ghost cities. At least UGL Rail (Goninan United) has held on in Broadmeadow still pumping out locos.
As the Boss of Goninan said recently it's all very well being awarded a Government contract but where do I get the workers from. This all happened because successive Governments purchased foreign made rail to save a few dollars, and what a failure that has been.
It's a fantastic service for regulars. Not so much for occasional users. You can buy a 6 month unlimited pass for $550 (or $420 if you slum it with the screaming kids in cattle class). And that isn't just Canberra. It includes all NSW Trainlink booked seat trains and connecting coaches across NSW and slightly into neighbouring states. Just make a phone call or use the web interface to make a free seat reservation. I used to travel every weekend before my mother up in Sydney had aged care home support services all worked out. Just hunkered down with an iPad and learned where all the mobile blackspots were, so I'd have cached video queued up.
I had the misfortune of being a (paying) passenger on the very first timetabled Canberra X'plorer revenue service in December 1993. It broke down repeatedly between Central and Campbelltown and just this part (from memory) took almost 2.5 hours.I disembarked at Campbelltown, which was few stations earlier than I'd planned. Not a great start. The government also trialled a tilt train on the line in the mid 90's. The alignment is so constrained that the tilt train could only tilt for very short periods, thereby making time savings negligible. Oops.
That's some fascinating history on the route! The day before I travelled, fires had caused a similar long delay (unavoidably) but I imagine it was pretty uncomfortable for passengers.
Trains why not?.No airport hastles security hidden costs etc.Relax enjoy the view read a book have some food and beverages or snooze.And a reasonable price with no hassle once on board.Nice video.!.
I genuinely don't mind the slower train journey because i am not in a rush. What i dont like is the uncertainty of many regional and intercity trains. I used to travel from Sydney to Newcastle regularly. When there was a "bus replacement service" operating because of trackwork or something, i was never that unhappy. Because if you were on the bus, the trip was reliable. While ever you are on the train, there ia always a niggling worry that there will be a delay, or even a deboarding, along the way.
That’s 💯 right. I got talking to the train driver before we left Canberra and there had been a couple hour delay the day before. I was lucky to avoid that!
Years ago heavy transport had to pay " road tax " A tax for carrying against the rail. A team of men sent a box on rail, Sydney to Melbourne. They then set out taking turns carrying a box in a wheel barrow. They got to Melboune before the box on rail arived. As a result of this they had Road Tax on trucks abolished.
The speed increases once you get to Goulburn and are on the main line. Also flight timings are misleading as they don't include checking baggage, security, collecting baggage, etc. Also for some periods of the year there is a risk that your flight wont leave Canberra due to morning fog.
Have done this a couple of times with the Family for a holiday to Sydney from Canberra.. It's more comfortable than the bus, just because of leg room - but it's bloody uncomfortable.
The simple answer is pretty much cost, as usual You could definitely upgrade the railway and get trains from elsewhere to cut the time down by half or more But it'd be expensive, time consuming, and there's already many other options So it's simply another way to go to Canberra, a relaxing, slow, way, that's reasonable (At least no ome makes these trips in 70kmph trains, that'd be painful)
Many people forget that to travel by air there can be hours wasted at each end stuffing around at the airport. I travel 800km by train to Sydney and back regularly. It is cheaper overall than fling from where I am in Northern NSW.
I used to take this train from Tarago to Sydney and back fairly regularly. Tarago is in the middle of nowhere, I would often be the only passenger getting on the train. Always give the driver a wave - they all wave back. I am surprised you didn't mention the squeaking and groaning of this train - they are really old and should already have been replaced with modern trains from CAF. Also, you're lucky with 16 minutes delay, it can be much worse, in particular if it ends up behind the Melbourne to Sydney "express" which is run by train sets even older and more unreliable. Or running into a cow - and having to wait for the farmer to pull the carcass of the tracks with his ute...
The driver told me the day before they’d been delayed an hour or maybe more by fires in the suburbs of Sydney. My short delay wasn’t much problem, I guess!
Nice to see you producing content on our obscure neighbourhood railway line. I noticed you had no footage of HQJOC as you passed between Canberra & Bungendore; national security concerns? 😂 That line between Goulburn & Canberra is a wasted asset; I assume for petty state political reasons. For those of us living in NSW around Bungendore & Goulburn (& contributing to the NSW state coffers for the privilege), a reliable commuter service to Canberra where we work would be absolutely marvellous, rather than using our fuel guzzling vehicles...a small restricted access station at HQJOC would also be ideal for all the people working/posted there too...but I won't be holding my breath for politicians to act before they collect their pensions.
As an Irishman, I thought it sensible to avoid all footage of Joint Command :) But yes, I agree with you that any sensibly scheduled and reliable commuter service simply gets used (we have an issue in Ireland/N Ireland with scheduling our main intercity services, so that's on my mind). Is there the imperative for politicians to take any real action, beyond the change in rolling stock?
I think the main reason that it’s so slow is that the original route was built with Steam Age limitations. If we asked a Japanese firm to build a more direct route, they could probably create bridges and tunnels between Queanbeyan and Bungendore, and again between Tarago and Goulburn. I think a big issue is lack of capacity coming into Sydney, as I believe that the tracks are shared with freight trains. Beyond that, though, is decades of underinvestment in the whole network.
Great review, thanks. Do you remember if there was enough room to take a large suitcase on board and leave it at the end of the carriage (as the limit for checked bags is 20kg and ours are heavier as going on a cruise from Sydney.)
I'm pretty certain there was a storage area for luggage at the end of the carriage. I was only in the first class end (which I think is what you mean) and nobody showed any interest in the weight of my luggage. I certainly didn't ask anyone's opinion at the station!!
I really hate flying particularly domestically in 737s. I far prefer being on the ground. I’m looking forward to my first melb to Bris sleeper train trip soon.
Always used to fly to Canberra for work and get the train for personal travel, but unfortunately had to get the Murray's bus on my last trip because the train was sold out. Suffice to say I'm never getting the bus again.
Train link also have a buses that link up with the trains like you could go from Eden to Sydney for $66/88 for as that person said for free if your a concession holder
The car journey takes 3 hours even with zero traffic, not 2.5. I've done that trip many times and it's more like 3 - 4 hours depending on traffic, construction, accidents. Ok you can speed to try to make it quicker but that motorway is also notorious for having police doing speed checks on it.
When I was in Japan I took the Bullet Train from Tokyo to Hiroshima. That's 800km and it took only 3 hours and 40 minutes! The fact that it takes half an hour longer to travel the 240km - less than half of that 800km - from our capital to our largest city is a national embarrassment. I just used Ask Ai, and it said if we had a bullet train from Canberra to Sydney it'd take about 1 hour to travel between the two cities. Can you imagine how that would open up Australia? Even travelling from Broken Hill to Sydney would take less than 4 hours and that's about 1100km. People would be able to live so much further from the city, get affordable houses, and still have reasonable commute hours.
I’m a big fan of bullet trains and the high speed European services. Do you think there would be the numbers to warrant the service in Australia, or if they built it, it would create the desire to use trains more?
It's just a reality of the demographics. Population density is not high enough to warrant high speed trains. The costs would be astronomical with not enough tax dollars to go around and fund it. Maybe if this country taxed our resources fairly we could buy such things instead of making billionaire mining magnates.
The train hasn’t gone up in price as much recently as the bus has and the frequency of the buses have decreased I think this has increased the popularity over the last few years. Government owned trains and buses are also heavily subsidised for seniors etc. so it’s by far the cheapest way for a large chunk of the population. My grandma also said she prefers it because you can buy a cup of tea haha
I fly and drive that route often, the flying needs more money and much more time, its 45min in the air but like all airports you need to get there 45mins before, allow 30mins min from the city banking on good traffic, cab fare is crazy, train is also expensive, door to door its 2.5 - 3 hours by plane, and the drive, that's slightly better BUT the kangaroos, some big ones between Canberra and Mittagong, enough to stop you dead, Dawn or dusk is horrific and then the lunatics around Campbelltown on the expressway, the driving is next level idiot, possibly the bus at 3.5hrs but have yet to do it, I've always wanted to take the train and now I might, great chance to get work done
Those who can get a concession fare get at least a 50% discount on the train. That does not happen with the plane or the private coach services to Sydney.
Yes, I think you're right. I sat beside a pensioner who may have said a regular seat was free for him, but possibly that he could pay a small amount to upgrade to first class.
@@PlanetPatrick NSW pensioners can get some free tickets in addition to the 50% off fare. In addition there is a country pensioner excursion ticket where you can book to go anywhere in NSW outside/ not through the greater Sydney area for A$2.50. ACT seniors get 50% off and can use the country excursion ticket. There is a daily max of $2.50 for travel on Sydney trains and buses on the Opal system for concession holders.
The Canberra rail station is ridiculously positioned in the middle of nowhere. Especially bad if taking to train to Canberra to go to museums, art gallery etc. It is a long way from the station to where things are, and the buses are slow and take a circuitous route. The best thing about an early morning train is the kangaroos, especially in the Lake George area.
The station is where it is because a flood destroyed the rail bridge from Kingston to Reid over what was then the Molongolo River (now the lake). The reservation is mostly intact (aside from the casino anyway) to reinstate the rail station in Garema Place. It'll never happen, but it's a quirk on maps to this day.
@@PCLoadLetter As long as the station is in its current location few people will use the train to Sydney. You would think that the need to reduce emissions would cause them to extend the line and create a new station near where people are more likely to use it.
@@artistjoh Easier to build a nice destination around the current station than extend the line somewhere else. Kingston won't be recognisable in 10-20 years.
@@PCLoadLetter So you are suggesting the things that people come to Canberra for, art gallery, library, science museum, war memorial, are all going to move near the current station? No, I didn't think so. They could build a shopping center and apartment buildings there, but that is not going to bring more rail traffic. I have used the rail more than once from Sydney and I would not recommend it to anyone. It definitely needs to extend to be near the things that bring people to Canberra. To be perfectly honest, if it wasn't for large exhibitions I would never have visited Canberra. It is probably the worst city to go to in Australia if you are not in a car. The city design is worse than abyssmal, and is the living embodiment of why planned cities all over the world are almost always the worst kind of cities. Canberra compounds the problems by having absolutely terrible public transport. The location of the railway station is a prime example of the problem with Canberra public transport. Some city planner has plonked it there because design rules suggest it is best there, but with zero consideration of the needs of rail users. Someone probably got an award for locating it there, and nobody has noticed that it is a big part of the reason rail passenger numbers are low. And once you arrive at the station, the bus services take circuitous rooutes around a shopping center, and suburban streets before eventually getting to the places that visitors want to go. It needs to extend with a station at Parkes (library, art gallery, portrait gallery, Parliament House) cross the lake into the city center (which services ANU as well) looping around for a station near the war memorial and continuing to the airport, giving air arrivals access to attractions, city center, and Parliament House. That sort of extension is worth while for locals as well as provides reason for Sydney residents to leave the car at home and use rail. Canberra has some great attractions, but the city design is not one of them. It just makes it hard for visitors by making everything too spread out, and is 100% designed for the car.
Flight to Canberra is senseless, with all airport mess it takes almost the same time. Only if you are govt, fly first class and some dedicated driver brings you directly to/from airport.
@@PlanetPatrick so drive by car is faster, more convenient and more reliable. 3H from point to point, not from station to station and only by schedule.
No not really. How many are living in the CBD? So if you had to get from your home in Sydney or Canberra to the station, then train, then to your destination at the other end the time may be comparable if not longer. For example it takes me an hour to get to the airport. It takes me an hour to get to the CBd by another train. So 1+4 = 5 (train) or 1+ 1 (get to airport early) + 40 mins (flight) = 2.40. Leave it to your to work out.
@@xr6lad the point was that in 3 hour from home I will reach the final destination in Canberra by car, without any linkage to schedules, flights, search for local transport and so on. Train, of course, is even worse. what is especially funny - even private (small cessna etc) plane loses to car. I flied to Canberra recently as training... about an hour to get to Camden, preparation-checks-lodge plan-other mess 45 min, 1h clear flight time, ok, in almost 3h from home we landed there, so whut? if it would be transport flight, not training, it required another 30-45min from airfield to destination. Car is much faster and 10 times cheaper.
I'd much rather the train then bus/coach, flying is probably better if you don't want to spend half the day on the train but if you are in no rush then the train is good.
Honestly, I'm a big fan of taking trains, especially (as others pointed out) if you start to add in the time waiting around at the airport... but for practical purposes, for most a flight will be easier on this route.
I agree - I think that's the frustrating thing about it. Some people feel that investing in the speed and capacity wouldn't necessarily be repaid in people actually getting out of their cars, while others are pretty sure this is exactly what they would do!
When you have to sell train travel because maybe you don't like to fly or take a bus, or because the concession fare is generous for pensioners, it's not saying much for the train in itself. Yes, it is faster than walking and compared to 19th Century horse and carriage it is pretty good, but at the end of the day it is a 1990s train with 2024 prices running on lines that make it take ages to get to the destination. How much more enjoyable would it be if it was a modern train that took 2 hours? And ran frequently? And 3 trains a day from the national capital to one of the largest cities in the country? Try the train from Northern NSW to Sydney one day - 8 hours (as compared with e 55 min flight), one train a day and often you are shifted to a bus for all or part of the journey. Oh there you go, why not take a train AND a bus and make a day of it when you could fly in an eighth of time? Form a queue please.
You're required to arrive at the airport 2 hrs before your flight and then you have to get out of Sydney airport. So, overall not that much of a time difference.
@@PlanetPatrick unlikely. Too much politics involved. I use the train a few times each year to commute to/from Southern Highlands and also to go into Campbelltown. But most of the time, I just get the Murrays or Greyhound bus into Sydney Central
The politicians like to fly between Canberra and Sydney because .... well ... they're sooooo important. So of course the rail link gets no attention. It pretty much applies to most rail in Australia.
Pointless Canberra History! The rail fork from the Quenbeyan Cooma line went to Kingston, as it was where the first construction for Canberra was started. They extended the line across the river to Civic in Canberra, but a flood washed away the wood truss bridge in like the 20's. They never replaced the bridge. Hence why the odd location of the railway station. If I don't need to get to Sydney fast, the train is my preferred trip to get to Sydney from Canberra. Bigger, more comfortable seats than the Murrays Coach, foodcart, and being able to walk around and do stuff all put it above the bus. Oh, also the hot meals are delicious and cheap.
Flying is not as fast as 40 minutes .Must arrive 1 hour prior to flight to make sure you are not late.. disembarking wait times then a train into Sydney central.. the time difference is not that apparent.
@@PlanetPatrick I’m not sure. I only took the train at the time because I had an ear issue and couldn’t fly. That was my first and last time using the train.
@@PlanetPatrick from Albury to canberra it would take three an a half hours from canberra to central it be another three hours a total of six hours not too bad
I see that other lump of crap sitting at Central that was supposed to replace the beautiful V sets but the damn thing keeps breaking down ... cough wasted tax payer money and no I'm not meaning the beautiful XPT there either (the train that comes past me). Even more disappointed in the POS replacement scheduled for that Exploder you just went on and the XPT. For MOST destinations the train makes MUCH more sense as there's no seatbelt requirement and you can get up, stretch and walk around a bit without the driver loosing their shit. It's better for people with shot backs like mine too (the bus to the edge of the electric beats the XPT by 2-3 HOURS but that road is so F'd up it's just so harsh on the back).
NSW TrainLink sells more tickets to Canberra than any other destination outside Sydney. It's very popular despite the modest frequency and slightly longer travel time than a coach or driving. Thanks for the video - some nice footage that reminded me how pleasant it is to take the train!
That’s very kind of you, thanks, David.
Really? That's quite interesting. You'd think they would respond to that demand by adding more services.....
It's wild that the journey is so slow. Canberra and Sydney are the perfect distance for medium/high speed rail, and yet it we still don't have it. Flying seems so ridiculous, but that is the fastest way, even though the plane barely reaches cruising altitude before starting to descend into Canberra. Not everyone wants to, or is able to, drive, so the train should really be the number 1 choice. Lots of work to do to make it happen.
You’re right - it’s the perfect distance for such a service. Will it happen?
@@PlanetPatrick fingers crossed. Doesn't have to be true high-speed rail. But surely we can improve speed (by at least 1 hour), and frequency (at least hourly, if not half-hourly).
insane isnt. nation's capital and international gateway to australia not linked together. flights are always delayed by fog, this route would be so popular not only with business folk but tourists as well. at least the journey will be more comfortable when the new regional trains arrive.
@@Roadrunnerz45 more comfortable, yes. That's something at least. Every improvement counts. Embarrassing that the route is so poorly serviced though.
@@PlanetPatrick My guess is that 80 years from now, commuters (who haven't even been born yet) will be asking the same question.
I use this service quite often, it is a somewhat slow but a pleasant ride with nice scenary. I enjoy the on board catering and being able to sit back and read or do computer stuff if needed.
Yes that really helps.
My son does the same from Queanbeyan. He did drive but got fed up driving on his own.
Computer stuff? It's 2024 and there is no Wi-Fi. India has better train services than this.
@@Swadaable Yes I have noticed how Australians are flocking to India to enjoy wifi on train.
However, personally I don't use.public WiFi. My computer uses a G4/G5 modem that operates flawlessly most of the way (except in tunnels).
@@jimgraham6722LOL. It's not like you have a choice there brother.
“Travel without very much stress “. That does it for me.
And not just that, getting to central gives you all the Sydney public transport at your disposal. If arriving by air, you pay the $16:50 platform tax just to get on the train.
Well, less stress for this passenger, if not everyone.
The problem with people talking about flight times is that they never account for how early you have to get there to get through security, and make sure to get to your gate early for boarding, etc, etc. If I have the option, I will take a longer train journey when I can just walk up to the platform and step onto a train any day! Last time flying to Canberra was a nightmare, and I only flew because all the train seats were already booked
Of course, you have to allow for the time to get to the airport, hanging around and the risk of delays. That's reasonable to include in a comparison.
Yep “45 minutes” turns into 3.5 hours very easily
Yes , all that and the wait for your luggage to appear on the carrousel , wait for bus / train/ taxi/ Uber and the expense of them, or the walk to the car park and the parking fees...
LOL, flown from Newcastle to Melbourne twice this year, would have been quicker driving. not accounting for travel to and from each airport, first flight out of Newcastle was 8 hour delay yes 8 HOURS, second time - different carrier was 5 hours, on the return was also a total of 2 1/2 hours. getting the train, you would be lucky to be on a train, more than likely cancelled and tossed onto a bus. Next time we will save all the hastle and time by driving down.
@@Respectable_Username That's just not true. You have to be really late to miss a flight. They will usually even call you name a few times. Try that wit the train. Door in Sydney trains will rather decapitate You than create an extra delay.
Quite enjoyed your review. It was informative without being boring and it convinced me that train is the way to go when I head back to Sydney to catch my flight home after visiting family in Canberra. You have a very soothing voice and manner.
Yes, it may be slower than the alternatives, but it's a very relaxing way to travel (do bring your own snacks though!).
On recent trip to Japan I travelled on the Shinkansen from Hiroshima to Kyoto. (400km) It’s way longer in distance for example then Canberra to Sydney. It took like 1 hour 35 minutes. Amazing. I wish we had a bullet train in Australia.
Oh the Shinkansen is great / what a lovely trip you had! I have an upcoming video from that train in Kyoto!
I had a week's work in Canberra a couple of years back and got the train down and back. It was much less hassle at both ends, as my hotel was only a short Uber ride away and it avoided a long drive to/from the airport in Sydney as well as the hassle of early check-in, security, etc.
The trip down in the daytime was very pleasant; I got some work done, read a book and chatted to the lady seated next to me, while enjoying the scenery. The Friday evening return trip was mostly in the drak and I wasn't as easily amused after a hard work week. The food wasn't bad, both ways, and the price was definitely more reasonable than flying, even though I wasn't paying. I enjoyed it and would definitely do it again.
Good to hear your experience (the scenery during the day is a real plus)
For people who live in Bungendore and Tarago,they really don't have much choice as it's the only train service they have without having to worry about having to get driven to Yass Junction or Goulburn to catch the train.
Good point
Used to take this train in the 80s when I was at Usyd. No change in the length of the trip it seems. Nowadays I just drive, quicker than flight and train. Hoping to see a bullet train between Canberra and Sydney in my life time!
Fingers crossed - that’s one I’d come back to take!
Great review mate, I lived briefly in Canberra between 2015 and 2016 and got the Murrays or Greyhound coach quite a lot to Sydney via the airport was always a very cost effective and almost always on time 3 - 3.5 hours depending on where you went - there pretty well run hourly like a bus schedule from early morning to late at night. When I got the train last year I enjoyed the scenery of the journey absolutely but with track works and signalling delays it took over 5 hours and then we came into Sydney right during peak hour further slowing things down. You're right though if you just want to enjoy the journey and relax and be free to move around it's a fine way to go. I think the coach is usually the better option for regular travel though or indeed driving if you have a car. It's also a pity the station is not in civic either so it's not on the doorstop of Civic so its a pretty lengthy walk or a quick bus to get there but I guess close to the parliamentary circle at least! It's absurd how much the quick flight is though only really makes sense to utilise flying if connecting through Sydney to or from another flight as the time saving wouldn't be that great by the time you travel, from and through the airport!
It's crazy when a coach service is faster than the train! I get the technical reasons why this is such a slow service, for sure, but if it were more frequent and faster (and better situated), I'm sure there are the volumes of people going either direction that would make use of the train service. Good to have your experience and insight - thanks for commenting!
@@PlanetPatrick Why is it "crazy" when all but the suburban area at both ends is a straight four lane Motorway with 100/110kph limits.Bus drops off at Canberra CBD also.
Hey mate! One quick advice which might really help you in the long term.
This video was the first video of yours that YT showed me in my feed and you surely already noticed that it is outperforming most other videos with the exception of your Air Canada video. The common denominator is the specific way you set up the thumbnail:
close up of your face on the left/ in the foreground and long-shot of the subject in the background/ on the right.
The two simple reasons for this setup working wonders is that ..
1. human are visually attracted to other humans face
2. we usually read or visualize from left to right (with exceptions)
You surely are aware of most of those things but I really think that sticking to such a thumbnail format will massively boost the growth of your channel.
And not to brag or sth but marketing is my bread and butter so I know one or two things when it comes to design, psychology and similar topics :D Everything is meant in a constructive way but I hope you know this.
Best regards! :)
I take it constructively,. I've been A/B testing thumbnails. All the best!
Great video. Should be noted that the NSW Govt is beginning to replace the regional rail fleet (all XPT, XPLORER and Endeavours) with new Spanish built bi-mode trains.
Unfortunately nothing being done about the alignment for now
That will be so much better
Have the new CAF trains started to arrive, already years late and millions over budget?
@@andrewclarke6899 First few cars made it to Dubbo some months back. Still someway off entering service.
@@mark123655 Thanks, Mark
@@PlanetPatrickthe CAF seats are much worse and doesn't have any sleeping cars for the 11 hour train journey to Melbourne. The speed will be virtually the same as these trains are limited by the tracks rather than the rolling stock
I used to get that train to Sydney in the seventies. On one trip they loaded up the train and left. A few miles out they stopped the train for several hours because they were working on the line. Amazing
Oh wow! I've heard a surprising amount of stories about delays. Yours sounds pretty extreme!
(a) that was 50 years ago (b) even then they would not have held up a train for several hours unless there was an emergency.
In today's world such scheduled track work would see buses engaged to carry pasengers around the work.
I travel from Casino in northern NSW to Sydney at least once a year. There are two trains, the day train and the night train with a sleeper carriage. The trip is about 850km and takes 11 hours. On the day train, the sleeper cabins are converted to a three seat compartment with all the leg room you could possibly need, and as I'm 194cm, I need a lot. The NSW Government gives pensioners four free journeys on trains every year. I use two of my free journeys for the trip to Sydney. They are economy class but with the addition of $45 for the return journey, I get one of the day-sitter seats. Very often, I am the only person in the compartment so I can stretch out. The buffet car provides hot meals, drinks and snacks. The train is clean and comfortable, and showers and toilets are shared between two day-sitter compartments.
I cant fly, drive or take the bus from Casino to Sydney return for $45 so why would I not take the train?
I sat beside someone who had a similar benefit from being a pensioner. Of course you should use the service in your example!
Much the same , $40 return from Coffs Harbour. NSW Trains make a huge annual loss the government has to carry, but it spends a lot more on Motorways and football stadiums which are also subsidies to the people who benefit in those cases.
Interesting video. Many years ago, I rode in the Canberra Monaro Express train between Canberra and Sydney. That was back in the day, when I lived in Sydney. My last trip to Canberra was in October 1977. So, I would gather there have been a lot of changes since then. Heading to Canberra back in my day, the train used to split in half at Queanbeyan, with one half heading on to Canberra and the other half heading to Bombala via Cooma.
I’m very glad you shared such an interesting memory
recently secured a traineeship with this mob and im dreaming to drive one of these beauties, although i really want to do the XPT
I have to say the staff from the driver to the Cafe Steward were all very friendly and professional - sounds like a good traineeship.
Nice. I always wanted to drive a train
@@Bluepilled-c5t go ahead and apply, I didn’t have much experience at all!
@@chief8886 thanks Chief, but alas I’m too old and eyesight no good. I hope you enjoy and get to drive some good ones. A great thing to do
@@Bluepilled-c5t we’ve got two people over 50 in our class 😉 good luck to you mate and thanks for the good wishes
You probably noticed the massive renovations/building work at Central Station anyhow this has now been completed with the new underground Metro line platforms (Metro from Central now joins with tunnels under the harbor to the existing Metro line that goes north west from the city) due to open in the next week or so.
I think I do recall the building going on - oh, that's great news and will make Central more accessible.
Train travel has its own relaxed charm. Since when has it been obligatory to always expect to arrive before you left ? Relax....let someone else do the driving......walk a bit.... you remember how to walk don't you ? AND you can get snacks & drinks without having to stop.......sweet.
I love train travel so it’s a no brainer for me. But this route seems to be a bug bear for lots of people who would love a very reliable commutable fast train service.
A bit of history. New South Wales (NSW) built a branch line from the main line at Goulbourn to Bombala, via Tarago, Bungendore, Queanbeyan and Cooma. An extension from Queanbeyan to the new town/city of Canberra was built, in the early '20s, by the Commonwealth of Australia and run by Commonwealth Railways. Eventually, NSW took over the Commonwealth Railways bit and that's what we have today. For the last 30-40 years there has been both talk and investigation of a Very Fast Train link between Canberra and Sydney, but nothing has happened yet! One thing is for sure, though - the VFT will not go via Queanbeyan, Bungendore and Tarago!
That's fascinating!
@@PlanetPatrickKingston isn’t the 1920’s terminus
The line traveled a cross the Molongalo River to Lansdale St in Civic, that part of the line was terminated after the the abridge was damage in a flood & the Federal Government chose not to build a rail bridge back over Lake Burley Griffin
Next problem, of course is what other route could it take? Gradients aren't a problem for Very Fast Trains running on electrified lines, but curvature is, so the existing route isn't an option. A new line from Canberra to Yass has been suggested, but then travellers to Sydney face the notoriously difficult section between Yass and Goulburn. And we still have to try and speed up that long descent from Goulburn to Sydney.
There also seems to be a lot of confusion in this country about what a Very Fast Line actually is for and how it works. For example, it's often suggested that a Melbourne-Sydney VFT will encourage commuters from country towns, when the whole point of VFTs is that they don't keep stopping.
And then there was the "pioneer" line from Cooma to Bombala, the only railway in the country, I believe, where a train has got stuck in snow drifts. Bits of the line, embankments and trestles, can still be seen from the highway.
The talk and study groups have cost 1 billion AUD over the last 40 years.. your money stolen by sophisticated criminal gangs in your government..
A dozen or more years ago, I caught the train to Canberra. My wife and our young son had driven down a couple of days earlier but I had some work to attend to. While I could have flown, I thought I'd give the train a try. That one trip was enough to say never again. While the train was comfortable and pretty punctual, the reasonably short journey just took forever. An equivalent journey in Europe would have been about half the time.
Yes, I think that’s right - this was by far the slowest way to get to Sydney where in the UK or Germany, the train is (mostly) the fastest method over 1-2 hour routes.
European intercity lines were built with gentle gradients and sweeping curves from the beginning, and usually double track. Australian railway lines were of necessity built on the cheap as single track, with winding reverse curves and steep gradients. Furthermore, as already mentioned, the line from Canberra is a branch line of a branch line, which has to wind its way along the Molonglo Gorge. Rebuilding the line would cost a fortune, which could never be justified by traffic potential, in the face of air and road coach competition.
@@andrewclarke6899 I know all of that (as do most people here). It does not mean that the service should be much better.
What’s the hurry
@@timothy6283 In the example I gave, I was looking forward to the weekend with my wife and our son.
I took it during COVID and I was often the only passenger between CBR and Bungendore. After COVID it became really busy because flights became expensive between CBR and SYD so I take the Bungendore bus
Yes, I took this journey in 2023 and it was really busy! Sounds like the bus is a good option.
Speaking as someone who has done it many times, the short answer is you wouldn't, unless you are subsidised pensioner travelling on the taxpayer's largess
The railway line goes the long way around Lake Georgeas compared to the road, so the journey takes an hour longer than the bus. On top of this once you do arrive the station in Canberra is inconveniently located south of the lake on the edge of town.
The buses are full sized coaches which leave every hour, are modern, comfortable and clean, and the bus station is close to the centre of the city
Next time I’ll take the bus as a good comparison. Thanks for your comment.
Take at least 2 hrs to walk from there to the centre but my young self took the scenic view route
@@timor64 The journey is often the most interesting part,not the destination.Train trips are another world,and the scenery options are usually way better.Hastles at airport security,road traffic snarls,or relax on the train.
Some of us simplify enjoy train travel
I do too!
Utterly absurd that we cannot catch a train to Canberra from Melbourne. The Victorian Velocity trains are much better. I like your choice of background music in your episodes. Well done!
I agree with you, re: connectivity. I've not had the chance to try the Velocity trains in Vic. Appreciate your comment about the music!
You can. Normally starts with a bus to Yass Junction. We do the trip a lot as our grandchildren are in Melbourne: 9:15 am to 6:30pm trip.
You can but its like catching a train from wollongong to newcastle but instead of central you can use goulburn
You have to be utterly joking. The Velocity’s are one of the most stupid long distance regional trains I have the unfortunate need to use. They are basically a tricked up suburban commuter train with rubbish seating crammed in and close together. Few have tray tables and no power sockets. And there idea to expand capacity due to over crowding was to remove toilets. Gunzels wet their pants over them because they have streamlined fronts. In every other case they are a step backwards. And running them in 3 car sets so you have 2 separate trains if joined together - so if the buffet is in one section the other 50% of the train can’t get to it - wtf?
I remember well over 25 years ago, when these trains were the shiny new thing. Luxury.
I travelled with my baby in the xpt... during my 20s.
They are "outdated"- but not as outdated as the tracks they travel on. Regardless, they are a comfortable, scenic option which is budget friendly.
For many in rural areas, they are a vital lifeline to access specialists etc.
Definitely a vital route, that - in the long run - might warrant improvement
Just caught the XPT from Brisbane to northern NSW as its cheaper than driving and only takes a little bit longer. Very pleasant journey but 5am leaving Brisbane is rough.
Ooh, that's an early start!!
@@nicolegardner7325 The northbound
train arrives at about 4.30 am. The official excuse is that a more civilised arrival time would interfere with freight paths. I think the real reason is that they want to discourage people from using the train so that they can discontinue the service.
I get the XPT from mid North Coast NSW to Sydney and return twice a year. Nine hours train vs. six hours drive. I love it . I read , snooze , chat , gaze out the window , eat , and we're there. Both down trip and return leave 7 am which is great for daytime travel. At rural home I'm in the car all the bloody car all the time. Love catching buses , trains, ferries in Sydney and not driving in horrendous traffic and looking for parking and paying heaps for it.
The flight between Canberra and Sydney might be 40 minutes but in reality getting door to door from Canberra city Centre to Sydney city centre would take a comparable time by air and rail given that you have to get to and from airports, be at the departure airport an hour or so before the flight and wait for your luggage after you land.
No not really. How many are living in the CBD? So if you had to get from your home in Sydney or Canberra to the station, then train, then to your destination at the other end the time may be comparable if not longer. For example it takes me an hour to get to the airport. It takes me an hour to get to the CBd by another train. So 1+4 = 5 or 1+ 1 (get to airport early) + 40 mins = 2.40. Leave it to your to work out.
@@xr6lad A lot of people travel to Sydney CBD for business or recreation. Granted the time evens out if you are going elsewhere in greater Sydney and if you are heading to the Kogara area then air travel would be a lot quicker.
The timings have led to quite the debate in the comments. But it's a point well made, depending on where you're coming from/going to, the door to door timings might be closer than expected.
@@xr6ladtoo far
I take a similar service to the North Coast from Sydney each year to visit relatives.
The main advantage over Economy is you get an extra slot for checked in baggage. Actual seating quality is very similar between Economy and First Class (I usually travel 1st, as the upgrade cost is relatively low, but had to travel Economy one year as I booked late.)
There's much less stress on checkin and checkout than with a plane, it's slightly cheaper, and in general there's a lot more freedom to move around. As long as you keep a good book (or audiobook or handheld game, with headphones) on hand to make good use of your time, and you're not pressed for time, the train is a decent option.
For the record, the trains to the mid north coast take about 8 hours. I think the CBR services stop more frequently.
8 hours is a long train journey (but I recognise the size of your country!). Thanks for sharing about your regular trip.
@@PlanetPatrick Eight hours is not a long journey. How long was your flight from Pomgolia ? And you can freely move around on a train. Indian Pacific Sydney to Perth a couple of days and nights is a long train journey. I wrote above it's nine hours by train from my home to Sydney and I love it.
The last time I traveled on this service was in 2004. The trains are still the same. The seats were ex. Ansett Airlines on the set I was on.
The train was good - because it dumped you directly into CBD. It was worth the extra hour for that.
There are positive aspects for sure. I’d say the seats had been there a long time!
CBR rail station should be relocated to CBR airport. Linking rail and air transport. You can also extend the tram line to CBR airport, tram rail air all linked in one stop.
Now that would make a lot of sense!
A great way to travel. Did it earlier this year, both ways. Went first class. Recommend it.
Definitely worth doing
As a Canberran I have taken the train to Sydney many times. It's actually pretty great. Yeah it's slow, but more legroom than the coach or plane, better bathrooms than coach or plane, and the buffet car. I like to switch off and just write on my laptop or read.
I've long said that if they installed power outlets and wifi they'd corner the market.
That would really make a huge difference!
Much enjoyed! Cheers from Wagga.
Glad you enjoyed it - Wagga's on the list for next visit!
Why not, it’s a very relaxing way to travel
Exactly!
Great review and thanks for sharing 👍
It’s hard though, to get your head around how half arsed the trains are in this state. They couldn’t restock the food car? They were in the national capital and yet it seems the local 7-11 has better stock than a NSW trains buffet carriage 😂
Well, there were sausage rolls, so better than nothing!! But yes, that's a good question, why do (almost none of) these services have decent food? The only one that really had/has is Virgin Trains in the UK, but no use to you in Canberra (or me wherever I am in the world).
I lived in Canberra going back 21 years ago my mistake was moving from their.
I thought it was a nice city (just a short visit but I enjoyed it)
Always take the train. Just love trains, train infrastructure, locos, freight trains etc. cheers.
Absolutely!
It’s not just for end to end travellers. It’s for the towns it stops on the way.
I'm a big fan of train travel for exactly this reason.
Its cheaper than hot chips that's one reason .Also I'd take the train over greyhound,the last time I took one of their coaches the driver almost crashed 6 times. He was constantly on his mobile phone taking personal calls and dropping it on the floor .It was a nightmare trip .
That would definitely put me off Greyhound!!
You should've reported the driver for endangering his passengers' lives. I drove buses in Sydney Eastern Suburbs for five years with 50 to 100 passengers depending on bus size and was always aware I was responsible for them.
@@desfletch I still have the video ,I might upload it one-day!
I really enjoyed your video, thanks for that. Now subscribed to your channel.
I appreciate your comment - thanks!
I took this train in 1982. In winter. At night. It wasn't heated.
Oh wow!
We've been trying to get a faster train for ages, but it always comes down to someone doing a cost-analysis of the status quo versus something going at 400km/hr. We only really need 100km/hr to beat the competition. The only thing in this review I'd take issue with is the idea that the flight is 40 minutes - its 40 minutes air time but of course an hour either side in probing and hassle and our airlines get off the ground as scheduled about 60% of the time. Take the train or the bus, see some cows, its far nicer.
Yes, of course, that's sensible - the waiting around does multiply the time spent on taking a flight.
Our poor aging train stock in NSW. We used to build trains here by the way. Now we no longer seem to build anything... sad face.
Subscribed.
Thanks for the comment and sub
Unfortunately it's an efficiency game. Build for 3years and then do nothing for 30 isn't everyone sensible.
Newcastle NSW was a very big manufacturing city. With Dockyards, railway workshops and BHP. Employing thousands of workers and apprentices.
Today Newcastle is high rises and cafe's. Good luck trying to source Trades people for new contracts.
Successive Governments have destroyed T.A.F.E's and manufacturing jobs.
History now shows purchasing foreign made infrastructure is very expensive in the long run. Politicians only see the upfront cost not ongoing maintenance.
@@clydesimpson1462 I live in Newcastle. TAFE campuses in Hamilton and Islington used to overflow with students but a decision to allow pretty much anyone to call themselves an RTO and the withdrawal of pretty much all TAFE funding has destroyed both campuses. They're like ghost cities.
At least UGL Rail (Goninan United) has held on in Broadmeadow still pumping out locos.
As the Boss of Goninan said recently it's all very well being awarded a Government contract but where do I get the workers from. This all happened because successive Governments purchased foreign made rail to save a few dollars, and what a failure that has been.
It's a fantastic service for regulars. Not so much for occasional users. You can buy a 6 month unlimited pass for $550 (or $420 if you slum it with the screaming kids in cattle class). And that isn't just Canberra. It includes all NSW Trainlink booked seat trains and connecting coaches across NSW and slightly into neighbouring states. Just make a phone call or use the web interface to make a free seat reservation.
I used to travel every weekend before my mother up in Sydney had aged care home support services all worked out. Just hunkered down with an iPad and learned where all the mobile blackspots were, so I'd have cached video queued up.
That’s a great price - I didn’t know that! Thanks
At one time, Murrays coaches were offering Canberra to Sydney for $15 each way but have since stopped that.
Sounds like that was a good deal!
I had the misfortune of being a (paying) passenger on the very first timetabled Canberra X'plorer revenue service in December 1993. It broke down repeatedly between Central and Campbelltown and just this part (from memory) took almost 2.5 hours.I disembarked at Campbelltown, which was few stations earlier than I'd planned. Not a great start.
The government also trialled a tilt train on the line in the mid 90's. The alignment is so constrained that the tilt train could only tilt for very short periods, thereby making time savings negligible. Oops.
That's some fascinating history on the route! The day before I travelled, fires had caused a similar long delay (unavoidably) but I imagine it was pretty uncomfortable for passengers.
Trains why not?.No airport hastles security hidden costs etc.Relax enjoy the view read a book have some food and beverages or snooze.And a reasonable price with no hassle once on board.Nice video.!.
Thank you (and I agree!)
I genuinely don't mind the slower train journey because i am not in a rush.
What i dont like is the uncertainty of many regional and intercity trains. I used to travel from Sydney to Newcastle regularly. When there was a "bus replacement service" operating because of trackwork or something, i was never that unhappy. Because if you were on the bus, the trip was reliable. While ever you are on the train, there ia always a niggling worry that there will be a delay, or even a deboarding, along the way.
That’s 💯 right. I got talking to the train driver before we left Canberra and there had been a couple hour delay the day before. I was lucky to avoid that!
Years ago heavy transport had to pay " road tax " A tax for carrying against the rail. A team of men sent a box on rail, Sydney to Melbourne. They then set out taking turns carrying a box in a wheel barrow. They got to Melboune before the box on rail arived. As a result of this they had Road Tax on trucks abolished.
I had no idea
The speed increases once you get to Goulburn and are on the main line.
Also flight timings are misleading as they don't include checking baggage, security, collecting baggage, etc. Also for some periods of the year there is a risk that your flight wont leave Canberra due to morning fog.
Yes, that's very fair to draw attention to.
Have done this a couple of times with the Family for a holiday to Sydney from Canberra.. It's more comfortable than the bus, just because of leg room - but it's bloody uncomfortable.
Hopefully in time there'll be better, more comfortable carriages.
The simple answer is pretty much cost, as usual
You could definitely upgrade the railway and get trains from elsewhere to cut the time down by half or more
But it'd be expensive, time consuming, and there's already many other options
So it's simply another way to go to Canberra, a relaxing, slow, way, that's reasonable
(At least no ome makes these trips in 70kmph trains, that'd be painful)
I think that's a nice direct answer to the question. Thank you.
Many people forget that to travel by air there can be hours wasted at each end stuffing around at the airport. I travel 800km by train to Sydney and back regularly. It is cheaper overall than fling from where I am in Northern NSW.
That’s a fair point
Trains run to the city central. But travel time to and from airports and costs to do so are things to consider, etc.
Absolutely agree.
I used to take this train from Tarago to Sydney and back fairly regularly. Tarago is in the middle of nowhere, I would often be the only passenger getting on the train. Always give the driver a wave - they all wave back. I am surprised you didn't mention the squeaking and groaning of this train - they are really old and should already have been replaced with modern trains from CAF. Also, you're lucky with 16 minutes delay, it can be much worse, in particular if it ends up behind the Melbourne to Sydney "express" which is run by train sets even older and more unreliable. Or running into a cow - and having to wait for the farmer to pull the carcass of the tracks with his ute...
The driver told me the day before they’d been delayed an hour or maybe more by fires in the suburbs of Sydney. My short delay wasn’t much problem, I guess!
I dont hate this trip. It just takes SO LONG, which means it's almost always easier to drive.
I take that point for sure. I was glad to arrive!
Why ? To get the best possble view of Canberra, from the last carriage while heading north.
An excellent reason!
Nice to see you producing content on our obscure neighbourhood railway line.
I noticed you had no footage of HQJOC as you passed between Canberra & Bungendore; national security concerns? 😂
That line between Goulburn & Canberra is a wasted asset; I assume for petty state political reasons. For those of us living in NSW around Bungendore & Goulburn (& contributing to the NSW state coffers for the privilege), a reliable commuter service to Canberra where we work would be absolutely marvellous, rather than using our fuel guzzling vehicles...a small restricted access station at HQJOC would also be ideal for all the people working/posted there too...but I won't be holding my breath for politicians to act before they collect their pensions.
As an Irishman, I thought it sensible to avoid all footage of Joint Command :)
But yes, I agree with you that any sensibly scheduled and reliable commuter service simply gets used (we have an issue in Ireland/N Ireland with scheduling our main intercity services, so that's on my mind). Is there the imperative for politicians to take any real action, beyond the change in rolling stock?
I think the main reason that it’s so slow is that the original route was built with Steam Age limitations. If we asked a Japanese firm to build a more direct route, they could probably create bridges and tunnels between Queanbeyan and Bungendore, and again between Tarago and Goulburn.
I think a big issue is lack of capacity coming into Sydney, as I believe that the tracks are shared with freight trains.
Beyond that, though, is decades of underinvestment in the whole network.
Yes, I'm afraid underinvestment is likely a big chunk of the problem and as we say in Ireland, if I was going to Galway, I wouldn't start from here.
Great review, thanks. Do you remember if there was enough room to take a large suitcase on board and leave it at the end of the carriage (as the limit for checked bags is 20kg and ours are heavier as going on a cruise from Sydney.)
I'm pretty certain there was a storage area for luggage at the end of the carriage. I was only in the first class end (which I think is what you mean) and nobody showed any interest in the weight of my luggage. I certainly didn't ask anyone's opinion at the station!!
Thank you
I really hate flying particularly domestically in 737s. I far prefer being on the ground. I’m looking forward to my first melb to Bris sleeper train trip soon.
That sounds like one I’d like to do! Enjoy!
Always used to fly to Canberra for work and get the train for personal travel, but unfortunately had to get the Murray's bus on my last trip because the train was sold out. Suffice to say I'm never getting the bus again.
Bus travel in australia is the worst.
Oh wow 👀
After 1st July 2024, the prices went up. It’s now over $70 for first class, $50 for second class.
Good to know that, thanks!
I quite love taking the train. Not all of us are in a hurry
Indeed
@@PlanetPatrickI hope you enjoyed the views. I usually travel on the Brisbane to Sydney line.
Train link also have a buses that link up with the trains like you could go from Eden to Sydney for $66/88 for as that person said for free if your a concession holder
Oh that I didn’t know! Good to have that facility
@@PlanetPatrick slow tho would take 9hrs
The car journey takes 3 hours even with zero traffic, not 2.5. I've done that trip many times and it's more like 3 - 4 hours depending on traffic, construction, accidents. Ok you can speed to try to make it quicker but that motorway is also notorious for having police doing speed checks on it.
I take that point. I was advised by a Canberra local who doesn't drive :)
The audio balance is 90% on the left speaker and 10% on the right
That is correct. It’s changed in future videos.
I don't think you will get to Sydney Central Station from Canberra by car in 2.5 hrs unless you arrive at about 04:00 hrs.
Magic car possibly 🚗🪄
When I was in Japan I took the Bullet Train from Tokyo to Hiroshima. That's 800km and it took only 3 hours and 40 minutes! The fact that it takes half an hour longer to travel the 240km - less than half of that 800km - from our capital to our largest city is a national embarrassment.
I just used Ask Ai, and it said if we had a bullet train from Canberra to Sydney it'd take about 1 hour to travel between the two cities. Can you imagine how that would open up Australia? Even travelling from Broken Hill to Sydney would take less than 4 hours and that's about 1100km.
People would be able to live so much further from the city, get affordable houses, and still have reasonable commute hours.
I’m a big fan of bullet trains and the high speed European services. Do you think there would be the numbers to warrant the service in Australia, or if they built it, it would create the desire to use trains more?
It's just a reality of the demographics. Population density is not high enough to warrant high speed trains. The costs would be astronomical with not enough tax dollars to go around and fund it. Maybe if this country taxed our resources fairly we could buy such things instead of making billionaire mining magnates.
And how much would it cost and who would pay it ? Australians already want better services while paying less tax.
The train hasn’t gone up in price as much recently as the bus has and the frequency of the buses have decreased I think this has increased the popularity over the last few years. Government owned trains and buses are also heavily subsidised for seniors etc. so it’s by far the cheapest way for a large chunk of the population. My grandma also said she prefers it because you can buy a cup of tea haha
She’s quite right!
I fly and drive that route often, the flying needs more money and much more time, its 45min in the air but like all airports you need to get there 45mins before, allow 30mins min from the city banking on good traffic, cab fare is crazy, train is also expensive, door to door its 2.5 - 3 hours by plane, and the drive, that's slightly better BUT the kangaroos, some big ones between Canberra and Mittagong, enough to stop you dead, Dawn or dusk is horrific and then the lunatics around Campbelltown on the expressway, the driving is next level idiot, possibly the bus at 3.5hrs but have yet to do it, I've always wanted to take the train and now I might, great chance to get work done
That’s the one great thing, you have room to get out your notes or device and get some work done in between the views.
Those who can get a concession fare get at least a 50% discount on the train. That does not happen with the plane or the private coach services to Sydney.
Yes, I think you're right. I sat beside a pensioner who may have said a regular seat was free for him, but possibly that he could pay a small amount to upgrade to first class.
@@PlanetPatrick NSW pensioners can get some free tickets in addition to the 50% off fare. In addition there is a country pensioner excursion ticket where you can book to go anywhere in NSW outside/ not through the greater Sydney area for A$2.50. ACT seniors get 50% off and can use the country excursion ticket. There is a daily max of $2.50 for travel on Sydney trains and buses on the Opal system for concession holders.
The Canberra rail station is ridiculously positioned in the middle of nowhere. Especially bad if taking to train to Canberra to go to museums, art gallery etc. It is a long way from the station to where things are, and the buses are slow and take a circuitous route. The best thing about an early morning train is the kangaroos, especially in the Lake George area.
I did see kangaroos! But failed to film them - oh well, sometimes nice just to look out the window at that time of the morning!
The station is where it is because a flood destroyed the rail bridge from Kingston to Reid over what was then the Molongolo River (now the lake). The reservation is mostly intact (aside from the casino anyway) to reinstate the rail station in Garema Place. It'll never happen, but it's a quirk on maps to this day.
@@PCLoadLetter As long as the station is in its current location few people will use the train to Sydney. You would think that the need to reduce emissions would cause them to extend the line and create a new station near where people are more likely to use it.
@@artistjoh Easier to build a nice destination around the current station than extend the line somewhere else. Kingston won't be recognisable in 10-20 years.
@@PCLoadLetter So you are suggesting the things that people come to Canberra for, art gallery, library, science museum, war memorial, are all going to move near the current station? No, I didn't think so. They could build a shopping center and apartment buildings there, but that is not going to bring more rail traffic.
I have used the rail more than once from Sydney and I would not recommend it to anyone. It definitely needs to extend to be near the things that bring people to Canberra. To be perfectly honest, if it wasn't for large exhibitions I would never have visited Canberra. It is probably the worst city to go to in Australia if you are not in a car. The city design is worse than abyssmal, and is the living embodiment of why planned cities all over the world are almost always the worst kind of cities. Canberra compounds the problems by having absolutely terrible public transport.
The location of the railway station is a prime example of the problem with Canberra public transport. Some city planner has plonked it there because design rules suggest it is best there, but with zero consideration of the needs of rail users. Someone probably got an award for locating it there, and nobody has noticed that it is a big part of the reason rail passenger numbers are low. And once you arrive at the station, the bus services take circuitous rooutes around a shopping center, and suburban streets before eventually getting to the places that visitors want to go.
It needs to extend with a station at Parkes (library, art gallery, portrait gallery, Parliament House) cross the lake into the city center (which services ANU as well) looping around for a station near the war memorial and continuing to the airport, giving air arrivals access to attractions, city center, and Parliament House. That sort of extension is worth while for locals as well as provides reason for Sydney residents to leave the car at home and use rail.
Canberra has some great attractions, but the city design is not one of them. It just makes it hard for visitors by making everything too spread out, and is 100% designed for the car.
Flight to Canberra is senseless, with all airport mess it takes almost the same time. Only if you are govt, fly first class and some dedicated driver brings you directly to/from airport.
Yes, we seem to ignore all the hanging around at airports in our time calculations!
@@PlanetPatrick so drive by car is faster, more convenient and more reliable. 3H from point to point, not from station to station and only by schedule.
No not really. How many are living in the CBD? So if you had to get from your home in Sydney or Canberra to the station, then train, then to your destination at the other end the time may be comparable if not longer. For example it takes me an hour to get to the airport. It takes me an hour to get to the CBd by another train. So 1+4 = 5 (train) or 1+ 1 (get to airport early) + 40 mins (flight) = 2.40. Leave it to your to work out.
@@xr6lad the point was that in 3 hour from home I will reach the final destination in Canberra by car, without any linkage to schedules, flights, search for local transport and so on. Train, of course, is even worse.
what is especially funny - even private (small cessna etc) plane loses to car. I flied to Canberra recently as training... about an hour to get to Camden, preparation-checks-lodge plan-other mess 45 min, 1h clear flight time, ok, in almost 3h from home we landed there, so whut? if it would be transport flight, not training, it required another 30-45min from airfield to destination. Car is much faster and 10 times cheaper.
Those old country link trains are ancient been the same since the late 80's early 90's seriously needs an upgrade
I think that's a pretty strong argument
2.5 hrs by car? Maybe if you’re going to Campbelltown or Liverpool? It’s more than 3 hours by car to central Sydney.
So I believe
Baffling to me that it stops at Bowral and Mittagong, given their proximity.
Yes that’s right
I'd much rather the train then bus/coach, flying is probably better if you don't want to spend half the day on the train but if you are in no rush then the train is good.
Honestly, I'm a big fan of taking trains, especially (as others pointed out) if you start to add in the time waiting around at the airport... but for practical purposes, for most a flight will be easier on this route.
I would get the train to sydney way more often if it were just that bit faster. it could be done so easily too.
I agree - I think that's the frustrating thing about it. Some people feel that investing in the speed and capacity wouldn't necessarily be repaid in people actually getting out of their cars, while others are pretty sure this is exactly what they would do!
When you have to sell train travel because maybe you don't like to fly or take a bus, or because the concession fare is generous for pensioners, it's not saying much for the train in itself. Yes, it is faster than walking and compared to 19th Century horse and carriage it is pretty good, but at the end of the day it is a 1990s train with 2024 prices running on lines that make it take ages to get to the destination. How much more enjoyable would it be if it was a modern train that took 2 hours? And ran frequently? And 3 trains a day from the national capital to one of the largest cities in the country? Try the train from Northern NSW to Sydney one day - 8 hours (as compared with e 55 min flight), one train a day and often you are shifted to a bus for all or part of the journey. Oh there you go, why not take a train AND a bus and make a day of it when you could fly in an eighth of time? Form a queue please.
Fair comments and thanks for taking the time.
It’s the cheapest option. Buses cost around $100 dollars and flights a $220
That’s an excellent point!
Murray’s coaches would be cheaper, more frequent and quicker.
Good to know - thanks!
They just need to make the trip sub 3 hours and I think it would increase massively in popularity.
I think that's 100% right
You're required to arrive at the airport 2 hrs before your flight and then you have to get out of Sydney airport. So, overall not that much of a time difference.
Fair point
Could never understand how slow it is and the station in Kingston.
Loads of helpful comments here with explanations of that (and hopes for the current situation to improve in the future)
The only reason to do it is if your final destination is in the Campbelltown area
Maybe change will come in the future and make it a more viable service?
@@PlanetPatrick unlikely. Too much politics involved. I use the train a few times each year to commute to/from Southern Highlands and also to go into Campbelltown. But most of the time, I just get the Murrays or Greyhound bus into Sydney Central
@@johnhamilton6003that's now direct
I actually like the train trip, but I'm not in a hurry
Yes that might be the key to it
The politicians like to fly between Canberra and Sydney because .... well ... they're sooooo important. So of course the rail link gets no attention. It pretty much applies to most rail in Australia.
A shame really.
Pointless Canberra History! The rail fork from the Quenbeyan Cooma line went to Kingston, as it was where the first construction for Canberra was started. They extended the line across the river to Civic in Canberra, but a flood washed away the wood truss bridge in like the 20's. They never replaced the bridge. Hence why the odd location of the railway station. If I don't need to get to Sydney fast, the train is my preferred trip to get to Sydney from Canberra. Bigger, more comfortable seats than the Murrays Coach, foodcart, and being able to walk around and do stuff all put it above the bus. Oh, also the hot meals are delicious and cheap.
I find this super interesting! Thanks for letting us know this background to the current service.
Feedback, the audio is only on the left? :(
Thanks - I’ll check it out!
@@PlanetPatrick Correction, parts of it are, mostly when you are speaking, the other parts where you just play music are left/right.
Rail in Australia is woeful. Don’t bother with it, fly instead.
It was worth trying
Australian long distance rail is truely 100 years behind the times isn’t it.
Maybe some day…
Australia can do better it's just not trying hard enough
Flying is not as fast as 40 minutes .Must arrive 1 hour prior to flight to make sure you are not late.. disembarking wait times then a train into Sydney central.. the time difference is not that apparent.
A fair point
I would thumbs-up this video, unfortunately, I am deaf in my left ear.
😝🧏
I did first class from Sydney to Melbourne back in 2004. It was absolutely horrendous. A major embarrassment for this country.
Is that also an NSW service? It's not one I've taken.
@@PlanetPatrick I’m not sure. I only took the train at the time because I had an ear issue and couldn’t fly. That was my first and last time using the train.
In 2015 my first trip away from Sydney there were 2 other men along with me in carriage but they left half away
It's shameful. People talk about getting a very fast train. I reckon we should first focus on getting a moderately fast train.
It’d be a nice start!
*WRONG* by car from cenberra to sydney takes three hours by bus it takes 4 hours by plane it takes 55 minutes
Read about 50% of the other posts
@@PlanetPatrick from Albury to canberra it would take three an a half hours from canberra to central it be another three hours a total of six hours not too bad
No way can you do Canberra to Sydney by car in 2 and a half hours.
It was a friend in Canberra told me that and he’s finally relented that it takes longer!
If you do it in two half hours it won't be cheap when you include the speeding tickets. Actually you would be lucky to hold onto your licence.
The capital to the Big city
I see that other lump of crap sitting at Central that was supposed to replace the beautiful V sets but the damn thing keeps breaking down ... cough wasted tax payer money and no I'm not meaning the beautiful XPT there either (the train that comes past me). Even more disappointed in the POS replacement scheduled for that Exploder you just went on and the XPT.
For MOST destinations the train makes MUCH more sense as there's no seatbelt requirement and you can get up, stretch and walk around a bit without the driver loosing their shit. It's better for people with shot backs like mine too (the bus to the edge of the electric beats the XPT by 2-3 HOURS but that road is so F'd up it's just so harsh on the back).
Where possible, I much prefer to take the train too.