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Alien - Staccato - CZ Tactical Sports - King of the Hill
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- Опубліковано 2 кві 2022
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We take a look at these popular competitive pistols and see how the new Alien from Laugo Arms and Lancer Systems stacks up to the more established Staccato 2011 and CZ Tactical Sports or Checkmate. The Laugo Alien is probably the most radical of the three guns with the staccato being the most praised in the United States. The CZ has a cult like following too and dominates in European competitions. We compare, test and rate the Alien, Staccato 2011 and CZ Shadow 2 from the perspective of regular non-competitive shooters.
#Alien #staccato #CZ
Alien 1:30
Staccato 11:55
CZ 20:21
CZ has always been the most underrated brand of firearms in the US market, especially the CZ75 and the CZ 550 rifles. Both are fantastic, reliable, accurate, and very afforable. Old school quality, great features. Never quite understood why the CZ75 was never put into contention for a US military sidearm.
Interesting, I've always had love for CZ and never felt they were underrated. Insane quality, fit, finish, and value.
IMO the CZ75, and other CZ pistols went from being underrated to, at this point, being overrated. I've owned a CZ75, and it's a good pistol, but there is nothing that puts it obviously above Beretta and Sig hammer fired DA/SA offerings.
@@mohawk3371 I think, having shot all three, the CZ trigger is the best by far. It's just insanely smooth.
@@oldesertguy9616 IMO the 92x OEM trigger is better than the OEM omega triggers on the cz75. The Sig P226s I've shot had triggers that were on par, or better, than my cz75. If you are comparing higher end models the the 92 LTT triggers are better (particularly in DA) than the Shadow triggers I've tried as well. I also remember handing a p226 x-five in a shop years ago, and the trigger was amazing.
Because it was behind the iron curtain. Also, earlier CZ-75s weren’t as reliable, had poor finish and weren’t safe to carry with a round in the chamber.
I vote for the CZ on price for performance basis, you get a lot of bang for your buck. Value aside then Staccato
Yeah 1600 dollar gun competing with a 4k plus dollar guns!
I got my triarc 2011 with milled slideand absolutely love it. The dot is a game changer and u are at dissadvantage shooting with out one. I spent 4k with exta mags. There is also artemis, infinity. U cant go wrong on cz for 1600.
I have been shooting the Alien with a custom compensator, gas pedal and everything in IPSC Open Competition, the gun lasted 3 tournaments before the issues become unbearable. You basically have to clean the gun every 200 rounds. There are some design issues that just have me scratching my head as to what the designers were thinking.
They were so brilliant in designing the gas port and low bore axis, that they completely forgot about how to design their feeding mechanism... and don't get me started on the magazines.
But the worst of it, is that when you have problems, youre shit out of luck. Laugo will not respond to any maintenance, service or parts requests. If you send them an order request though, you will have a response the same day.
As of right now, all service comes through gracious gun dealers, but some are getting fed up and dropping the gun.
If that doesnt convince you, just consider that the inventor of the gun design, left the company last year.
Its sad, this gun couldve innovated and changed the competition pistol market for real, but it is currently slated to fail.
Lol. Slated to fail. Kind of a narrow picture.
I was very interested in the Alien but not anymore. I'm not a competitive shooter, I'm merely shopping for home defense so maybe I won't have these problems
The TSO is the only one that I can speak about. The others are way too expensive. TSO is beyond amazing, flat shooting, and extremely reliable! I can hit pop cans at 75 yards.
I second that. TSO is a great gun.
That's awesome....since 8 inch plates are pretty challenging at 75 yards....
You should definitely make a vid of that!
I was hoping to see the TSO in this review lol
Which one is the TSO?
@@noneyabusinesshomie the tactical sport orange. That one is handfitted and comes with a gas pedal. Also has a 1-2lb trigger
Have a CZ 75 Tactical Sport orange and that is my vote for the best pistol I’ve ever shot and own. It’s expensive but will last you your lifetime due to the quality.
for sub 2k its really not expensive for what it does
I just got a CZ 75 orange in 40S&W. So far I really like the Orange, perhaps next I'll find a 9mm orange. For the money it's hard to beat. I'm looking forward to running mine soon hopefully. It's funny because about a year ago I found two 40 cal. CZ orange magazines and bought them before I ever found the gun... I told them at the gun store, I was buying the orange for my spare mags I had at home for it!lol
You probably should have used the Czechmate instead of the baseline TS. It would be a closer comparison price-wise (though still cheaper). I own an Alien, a Staccato 2011, and a Czechmate, and the Czechmate is the best of the three, and was the cheapest. With that said, it really is incredible how close the baseline TS was to the other two guns when you can easily buy two of it and have enough money left over to buy over 1000 rounds for the price of either of the other guns. Another downside of the Alien is the severe lack of accessories for it compared to the other guns.
I have a CZ TSO and have handled the Staccato XC. The slide on the Staccato is like racking a 22lr pistol. And it's very smooth like riding on glass. But as far as price to performance, I'll take the CZ any day. If money was no object, then I'd take the Staccato.
I agree, the slide spring is toyishly weak on the 2011.
Exactly. CZ all day because money is an issue. If it weren't, we'd buy all 3 and not even care about this video
@@dilldowschwagginz2674 well stated !!!
You can switch to a newer competition hammer on the CZ for making things better. The reset is actually shorter on the new Tactical Sports 2.
Living the CZ Life !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I absolutely love my CZ Shadow 2 with the Cajun Gun Work trigger kit. It is truly worth every penny !!!!!!!!!!!!!
CZ has my vote.
Owning so many pistols I do not own the alien of corse but they are all Awesome. Reliability is what I always come back to and I’ve had multiple malfunctions out of every brand and style over the last 30 years. But with thousands upon thousands of of rounds thru multiple different CZ pistols, polys, steel, etc I can’t remember ever having a pistol caused malfunction in a CZ. Unlike Glock, Walther, HK, beretta, tons of 1911 nothing as reliable as a CZ. Reman ammo, cheap, expensive, frangible, etc, they all eat everything. Nothing I trust my and my family’s life to like my family of CZ pistols. That 2011 trigger is something else tho.
What a great vid!!! Great camera, editing, conversation 👍🏽
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Fowler Industries - Vanta 9 immediately comes to mind.
It is a great option for those that can:
A) Afford firearms in this price bracket.
B) Want something different other than the ubiquitous Staccato's and CZ's.
C) Have the patience to wait for such a craftsman-style build. (Premium Quality and Fast Production do not overlap in this venn diagram)
Ideally, the Dan Wesson DWX fits the bill as the best of both worlds being a CZ/1911 amalgamation.
For those that care. I have been obsessed with this pistol since its debut. Only recently has Dan Wesson resumed production of the DWX and it appears as though they may be shipping now. [Insert *extremely rare* moment of excitement]
However, please be aware that the price has increased approximately $100+ since the inception. Entirely worth it in my pragmatic opinion.
_Unfortunately,_ my personal principles forbid me from purchasing first-year production products. Therefore, I must wait until revision 2.0 or later. Tis the price I/we pay for our patience so that others may be the beta testers.
FWIW, I had to go through the debacle of a firearm recall once. Keyword _once_ which I why this principle was enacted but I digress.
Although to be fair, I do not anticipate any problems with Dan Wesson's regardless of the product generation. This may be the first time I am willing to forego protocol and purchase one before something else brings production to a halt.
Stay classy my friends.
In late Jan of 2022 DW announced on social media that they weren't advertising the DWX anymore and had no date range for production. They claimed they werent killing the project...but that sounds awfully dead. I wouldn't expect to see them for a few years, if ever.
Where did you hear this? Because the latest I’ve heard is what the other commenter said. I’ve wanted the DWX when they announced it at shot
show. I had it pre ordered but delay after delay I ended up with a Staccato P and am very glad I did. But it would be great news if the DWX is for sale. I’m also against buying anything 1st gen but this is one of the very few things I’m willing to take that risk on.
@@A1V124 from Dan Wesson, the company itself. They made the announcement on their social media pages and then canned DWX links on the website. That was sometime in Feb of this year.
@@Orcus1030 Sorry I meant to reply to Bert. He’s saying it’s possibly shipping which I highly doubt.
I have had a Staccato P for a few months.
I love it, I got the DPO with the threaded barrel, and a 507c acss.
Very smooth shooting, great trigger and a fantastic host for my Obsidian 45.
Saving up for a C2 for better carry, it will have a 509 acss, and V8 porting from DSC.
I really love the format with the across the table discussion with Jason. You hit all the notable points, had the videos inserted well with the discussion, and it was just a very enjoyable adult conversation between two knowledgable shooters on a topic I know little about - except for owning a couple SP01's.
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoy the format. We plan to use it periodically.
The heat radiated from the Alien would be a no purchase factor for me but it is a cool pistol.
Like the other two pistols really well also.
Another good video, Tim! 👍🏼
Several decades ago, I shot a lot of my Ruger Security Six, and it would get quite hot. I quickly learned that if you use dry Teflon lube and spray the inside of the cylinders and the barrel frequently and then shoot the firearm to season that Teflon into the interior surfaces of the chamber and Barrel. That I could shoot it twice as much as I was before and not even get it appreciably warm comparatively. Teflon has a unique property that it does not transfer heat easily. You may want to try that with that alien pistol. It also keeps a firearm well-lubricated because the dry Teflon Lube doesn't draw dirt like any oils do allowing you to carry the firearm for extended periods of time without having to worry about accumulated Gunk getting into it. I used right up on Lube on all of my carry guns. Including any combat rifles or carbines I carry. I do not put oil on anyting.
Keep up the great work!
Love your channel and honestly like the podcast style especially when it’s like this ( a compare of different guns already covered earlier) I also don’t shoot competition but would love to shoot / own the alien I really like the innovation of it that said can’t dismiss the staccato or other 2011 but my budget is more the CZ which I own several . Hate to say it don’t want to pop on anyones parade but if you get down to it for at least price verses product you can’t beat a canik
~Jack~
Ahhh the best days start with MAC! Thanks for all the great videos throughout the years!
Thank you for sticking with us all these years!
@@Militaryarmschannel I just yesterday went and rewatched the first video I saw from y'all the lucid 7 red dot review how time flies!
Oh man! What's funny is that those are still in production.
At the price point, you should have used the CZ CM as it’s more inline with the other two. I personally own a TSO and it’s an amazing bang for your buck.
The trigger is awesome!!
Agreed, I have the Collection of CZ's.
The CheckMate would of been a better comparison.
I have a CM.
A TSO.
Two AO1-LD 's
75 45
I haven’t shot the Alien but I’ve shot a Stacatto 2011 and several Shadow 2’s. They’re both amazing extremely flat shooting firearms.
Yup, my vote is also on CZ Shadow 2. I'm not sure about practical differences between Shadow and Tactical series, but my God, for the price, Shadow 2 has absurdly amazing trigger (and different in feeling than what MAC crew described, more like Staccato one, which I never had in my hands) and overall quality. My only gripe is that mag release could be janky on piece I shot, but I have my suspicions that the ovner never cleaned the damn thing and it was gunked up by something. Otherwise, all around amazing gun.
You should try the ALIEN, Hole new ballgame.
i like this format, keep it up tim.
Thank you. I enjoy filming in this format but it seems about 50/50 in terms of those that like it and dislike it. Since we have the studio we'll still use it from time to time. Thank you for watching!
In IPSC competition over a 30 year period I have used the STI 2011, CZ 75 IPSC MODIFIED, CZ 75 IPSC STANDARD, CZ SP-01, CZ 75 Gary Clarke compensated, Glock 17 and 34, S&W M&P, Tangfoglio silver team and Limited, and even a Bernabelli VB Practical and currently running an SV Infinity. Whilst the SV has undeniable reliability, accuracy and an excellent trigger, I found the trigger of my CZ IPSC STANDARD (essentially forerunner of the Tactical Sport) could be tuned finer and I could shoot it faster as I found it slightly more ergonomic but it could not hold as tight a group as the SV. But for an up close blag of a stage it was far more fun.
Hard to beat a finely tuned 1911/2011
Strait pull back trigger. 111 years later we still compare triggers to that.
I've shot plenty of handguns, but I've never found a handgun that knocked it out of my holster, I did switch caliber to 9mm double stack, still a 1911 though. And I'm a left handed guy, I use my trigger finger to lock the slide back with the slide stop and I do gotta break my grip slightly to drop the mag but I got used to it. I did melt my holster once but I just poured water on me since I was also getting cooked and then went back to shooting. I did spray more clp on the rails a little bit later.
We
.
Q
I'm loving these conversations.
Hi MAC, been a long time viewer of your channel. Couldn’t help but notice that you haven’t made a video on your entire collection of firearms! I think it’d be super cool to see all of the guns in your videos over the years in one place
CZ TSO is awesome.
You didn't come close to comparing apples to apples. Staccato is an open gun in competition for both USPSA and IPSC. The Alien is production division gun without the optic and with the optic it is an open gun. The CZ is standard division in IPSC and limited in USPSA.
Love the content , awesome guns, keep up the great work! God bless!
Thank you, it means a lot!
Man I love your videos, top-notch!! You provide such great Information for us all! I tell everyone about your channel. I just bought my first BCM rifle , where can I get one of those hats brother? Thank u for all u do!!
My tacsports2 is amazing. 1500 bucks and it's ready to go. Where did you think it would stack up??? It's a third of the price of one and 1/4 the other.....
I was an official yesterday at a competition, so had a close look at all guns used. 90% was CZ, TS2 or Shadow 2. The rest was Sig and 1 Bul.
TS2 fixed the issues you mentioned. The grip is better and the trigger is delicious. I alternate between the XC and the TS2 for different but equally enjoyable experience.
CZ makes very good firearms. I've been buying them for a long time and the TSO is as good as you heard
Install the shadow 2 safety on the CZ TS and it's amazing
I really love the staccato I have the P model and I love it. As far as reliability I find a lot of it is the ammo. They go out and buy a 5 thousand dollar gun and then they buy cheap target ammo.
I’m not the fastest shooter by a mile. However, with the P320 legion, the bullet lands where I want it to more than any other gun I’ve shot. It makes me look better than I really am.
I have an Alien, STI Costa Carry Comp (XC) and CZ S2. The S2 gets the value for money award but materials and workmanship (cast frame and many internal machine marks) make it crap in terms of quality by comparison. The STI is probably the fastest shooting of the STI and Alien. The compensator on the STI reduces the muzzle flip and reduces the amount of recoil going back into your wrist. The trigger helps a lot too. That said I am giving the Alien a good go - for at least 6 months as the non-reciprocating optic helps a lot. The directness of the recoil impulse into your wrist takes time to get used to. I won’t mix shooing the Alien and STI as grip angles are different and this screws up red dot presentation. That said Alien as a range gun and CzP10c with RMR as my carry gun works well for me as grip angle is very similar so not issues finding or searching for the red dot with the P10c.
The Alien is by far the most innovative design, but the price has to come down before i will get one.
The TS2 is basically the sao version of my Shadow2 so i can attest to it's quality. The Staccato is also great, although i'm more of a Bul Armory guy myself.
@@alfey318 the upside down hammer isn’t what makes the Alien special.
@@borkwoof696 ..its definitely part of it...cant have the bore it has without it.
@@alfey318 no. That is achieved by the upside down P7 like gas-delayed blowback system
TSO has a bit more than just single action vs blue grip S2. Longer barrel and slide, trigger work as well as being hand fitted. That’s not to say S2 isn’t a great gun. It is. I have one as well. Love it
@@borkwoof696 It's both. The recoil system and hammer both had to go up top to get the bore axis that low.
This is an interesting comparison. If my pockets were deep enough, I think I would enjoy the Alien, but I can certainly understand the heat issue due to its gas design. Thanks for playing with toys I cannot afford then talking about them so well.
Thank you for watching! If the companies weren't gracious enough to loan us these guns, we wouldn't be able to do such a comparison. I do own the CZ, the other two are loaners.
So I’m a competition shooter based in South Africa. I’m lucky enough to own the shadow 2, checkmate, tactical sport and staccato xc. At the range with competition shooters you’ll see very few have stock guns. It’s about parts, recoil springs and availability. The staccato xc wins as it’s like cheating and nothing needs to be done. The reason the tactical sport you felt recoil is there is a stranded 16 pound spring(reliability). But when you reload to get 130 power factor and use a 10 pound spring it’s a different gun. So unfortunately for competition shooting the cz wins purely on customisation for better and faster shooting.
SVI Infinity - Cabot guns - Atlas Gunworks - Wilson Combat - Nighthawk Custom - Staccato
The Alien is a cool gun but I definitely agree with your choice. I don't have a Staccato but I own a older STI and an Atlas Athena. When it comes to extremely fun, fast, and accurate handguns the 2011 or 2011 styled handguns are the way to go but I'm also a 1911 junkie and that's just the type of handgun I love shooting the most. Great video as always keepem coming guys!!!
Is the Atlas worth the price tag?
@@DJ_Driven It really depends... If you like to compete and want to see just how far you can push your abilities and you already own other similar guns then absolutely they're worth it. If you like to invest in a gun collection to sale later on in life similar to a retirement fund that's also a yes they're worth it. I compete and I could probably build a nice home if I sold a good chunk of my collection to me it's better then investing in gold. But they're awesome guns and its without a doubt the best shooting handgun I've ever shot and I've shot lots of really nice handguns and own several others.
@@DJ_Driven YEEEEES!
Regarding the extremely light spring in the XC, its something done on compensated pistols for reliable function especially with standard/minor power factor ammunition as the compensator further delays the action unlocking. Which is often where lightening cuts are required to balance this out. Runnning +P+ or 9 major would require a heavier spring though and will function fine. That said, the P duo/dpo comes with 11, 13, and 15lb springs. I use 16 and 18lb springs myself but I exclusively shoot 9 major whether defensive or target (uncompensated).
And sadly yes the heat issue with the alien killed it for me.
I feel if the alien would give you a lever that when pushed racks the slide or do some kind of charging handle that sticks to the left or right depending where you place it but the lever racker would be cooler
The Staccato XC sluggish slide, it could be gunk building up. My XC slams shut quite energetically if I hit the slide release. However, yes if I accidentally put my support thumb on the slide, it would lock the slide.
Cant speak for the alien, as I havent shot or owned one. I have 2 CZ 75 variants and a second Staccato on the way. Both brands are excellent and I hope my children and grandchildren will enjoy them when I die because they will not be sold. However, the Staccato is never in the safe and goes to every range trip, outing, hiking etc.
For competition, the Alien and Staccato are both open guns while the CZ TSO is limited. The alien doesnt hold enough ammo and wouldnt meet a major power factor. The Staccato has larger mags, but the gun will not meet major power factor and the dot is on the slide which will slow you down compared to purpose built open guns. TSO (in 40) is the only gun that is competitive in its division.
Nice review. Im shooting the Alien tomorrow. I would like to see it with a more powerful round. 38 Super would be nice.
Mac, you can buy two or three tso's to one of those others. And then there's mag cost, reliability, which is a factor with those 2011 mags. There's a whole lot you are not saying to your average jo. I have a Checkmate and it is still a lot cheaper than those other two.
I will agree on all parts minus the Cz ts2 trigger. Although it's a bit of a learning curve, when you figure it out it is by far the best trigger! By the way, the trigger pull is 1.75 lbs not 2.5-3lbs as stated
That's wild w/ the XC, mine will slam home still. Is it really dirty? Also my slide stop has a lot of "lift" almost where it will catch that take down notch .
Funny that you also found the recoil spring to be WAY too light on the XC. I have a Staccato P Duo with a Dawson compensator, so it's basically the same recoil impulse as the XC. I changed to a 15# recoil spring, and the gun is MUCH more confidence inspiring in terms of reliably locking into battery.
Have no use for staccato but the TSO & Alien are top tier handguns.
I totally agree with Trevdawg48, you compare the $1600 gun to the $4000 and $5000. Not fair for the TS2. I mean it because I just bought one and it shoot like a dream, Love it!
kinda surprised by how light the spring is in the XC, my Staccato P came with multiple springs of various weights for different loadings of 9mm. i would be kind of surprised if the XC didnt as well. The spring in the P model (which is designed for duty use, unlike the XC) feels as heavy as many other 9mm 2011s i have handled.
I have a CZ Shadow Two Orange which has a barrel Bushing ,Internals are mirror shined The Parrot & Checkmate are not .Good shooter .
I bought a czechmate parrot. I had a couple things go wrong off the bat. First, the gun was sold with only one of the screws needed to attach the cmore sight attached, the other screw was in a bag in the case. Second, the charging handle wasn't screwed on tight enough. I learned that on a second range trip. Third, and this is my fault, I let the battery die. The Duracell 1/3 N isn't the easiest thing to find. I had luck at ace hardware. Fourth the gunshop called it "9mm", so the average shooter probably thinks I can use 115grain off the shelf 9mm luger aka 9mm Parabellum. These do not cycle reliably. I joke with my friends that I bought a pump action pistol. I did special order 9mm +p "outdoorsman" from buffalo bore. This cycled reliably, but 1.50 a round hurts 3 times more than the 50¢ a round of regular 9mm. Fourth and a half, using regular length 9mm causes one of my factory magazines to fail to push rounds upward with enough force. They tilt and get stuck in there.
Thankfully a range officer took the time to kindly explain to me that I need to be using a different round, called "9mm major", and can only be found at special websites blackdot and eley, and maybe others. I didn't get any yet because it has been out of stock, but I think the 9mm major has a slightly longer case, more pressure, and would solve most of my frustrations.
5th, the real reason I spent money on this gun was I researched that CZ only makes 10 of these per year, and sends 5 to the US. I thought it was cool to be likely the only one in my town that has one, and crazy that CZ chose to send one to my area. A month later, I decided to look online to see if I could find the other 4, and I found more than 4 online. Then 9 months later I see a second one at the same gun shop I bought mine. My point is these may not be as rare as unofficially advertised.
6th. There's some jibberish in the manual translated badly that says something to the effect of don't engage the safety when you're doing jibberish or you will damage jibberish. As a result I always keep the chamber empty and do not use the safety.
The good stuff
1. Best trigger I've ever pulled, and may ever pull.
2. More precise than all of my other handguns
3. The cmore optic is excellent. While I'm shooting I can use the red dot to see how wobbly and unstable my grip actually is, and make whatever adjustment I need to hold steady.
4. fast follow up shots, with ammo that cycles.
5. Adjustable thumbrest. Im still figuring it out, but i sometimes like to grab it with the support hand.
6. Beautiful colors are symbolic of the intersection of welcoming passionate creativity and cold mechanical perfection.
The verdict. The parrot is for collectors, and in that role I'm happy with my purchase. Casual Shooters would be better off with a Keltec cp33 with 6 spare mags, a ton of 22lr and the over $2000 they just saved.
If you are interested in competitive shooting, ignore internet hype, talk to a competitive shooter before spending your money.
If you want to run cheap 9mm ammo with the comp on the czechmate you need to run a lighter recoil spring. Wolf has them.
@@Ryco108 that's a great idea. I forgot that was an option. THANKS
In USPSA. the max round count per stage is 32 rds. It's 18 rds in IDPA. The heat issue of the Alien becomes a non-issue in those terms.
The CZ is not a 3lb trigger. Those tactical sport triggers, depending on the model(Czechmate, Tactical Sport orange, tactical sport 2), are about 1lb 10 ounce range. That's why it surprises most folks, it's difficult to get a really well defined wall in the 1lb range. I had a custom STI 2011 Open gun with a 1.5lb trigger, same thing, the wall was non-existent. At full speed competition you aren't really looking for a defined wall like you might be while just having fun plinking around.
Awesome show. What would you recommend 0n type of handgun. In the 50 caliber range ??
I have the staccato under its former name, STI. The DVC-P and everyone who shoots it starts smiling. It’s super flat shooting, light felt recoil and just fun to shoot. I have the CZ 75 too, and the trigger takes some time to get used to, but once you do, you can shoot it really fast. The Walther Q5 SF compares nicely vs. the Shadow2. CZ has the lower bore axis, whereas the Walther has one of the best striker fired triggers on the market.
By the way, I have the Cz Parrot and that’s the Latinate competition gun. Totally not practical for anything else. Lots of fun at the range though or shooting steel
I bought an XC after shooting a DVC-P. I thought $4k hand guns were all hype before that. It was real, and just like you said, everyone I let shoot it can't help but smile.
i don't know what kind of CZ TSO you guys used but mine looks way different, mine has a thumb rest and controls are super large and comfortable and it shoots smoother than my XC plus my TSO trigger is less then 2lb pull from factory. My TSO dances around my XC all day long. CZ 75 platform is far more reliable than those other two.
Obviously with the Alien the low bore axis is why the trigger gets and is so hot. The explosion is right there up and right behind the trigger ,
I’d like to ask a question and I hope you see it and will answer?
If the trigger is getting and staying that hot after sustained mag dumps, and the question is, and it might be a dumb one, but, I wasn’t there and I definitely don’t have one, but, is/does, any of that heat get transferred to the mag well or rather, to the top area of the magwell/mag?
If you did a mag dump of 4 mags, since you said, if I had to load and shoot a 5th mag there’d be no way, so, if you dumped 4 mags and inserted that 5th mag., and didn’t shoot it, does or would any of that heat transfer/get transferred to those top cartridges in that 5th mag? Or does the heat dissipate rather quickly? Obviously if it was cold it would. But in a hot day, would it? And how much heat is there, if any, in those too cartridges in the 5th mag?
you can grap the reddot in racking.. use the retro slide..
Perhaps the czechmate would have been a better pistols to compare to these other two which are $4000+
I would honestly take the DA/SA shadow 2 Orange over the TSO. I think it has a better wall and reset. I would love a Stacatto but a little outside my range at the moment.. also possibly bias as I own the Orange and can shoot it lights out
Hopefully in the future they will make a slide lever for competition shooting since the slide is so narrow.
And maybe a polymer frame in the future to deal with the heat issues?
*I'm thumbing this video up for it's great information, which has confirmed my disregard for both of these firearms.*
I really appreciate you two guys thanks for all you do to protect our rights
Thank you Colin and we appreciate your viewership and support.
Can you fit a trijicon RMR or SRO to the alien slide to swap out the factory red dot?
Notification of new Mac video dings wife hides the credit cards.
I have not fired any of these weapons but I carry a cz p10c (mostly because of Tim's past videos on it) and i love it so I'd probably perform best with the shadow given no experience with any of the 3.
The P10C is still one of my favorite compact carry pistols. Such a great gun. Thanks for watching.
@@Militaryarmschannel you're welcome and thank you for the reply.
You also have Tanfoglio pistols which are very accurate, the Gold custom model for IPSC is top notch.
I shoot the Alien, 28x/500. For a regular person shooting steel the heat issue doesn't really present itself. I'm not going to shoot 4 mags in short order. The gun gets warm when I shoot it but I'm not going to be in a situation where I shoot more than 60rds in 5 minutes. Even in competition I'm not discharging more than 3 mags in a round. It's easy to complain about a $5K gun. I daily carry the gun and it's reassuring that my follow up shots are going to be on point. It's a svelt design compared to a 2011 and lighter. I don't use optics on pistols so racking the gun is just fine.
The TSO in Limited Major is a true competition gun . The XC would be Open minor , so not competitive. The Alien with the non-recip dot would similarly be Open minor, but with irons you can shoot Production division. My Alien , with factory 10’s is almost impossible to rack with a full mag of any ammo besides S&B due to the internal design of the slide and the mag tension and angle which is a big problem for unloaded starts . Heat is no big deal as it’s not meant for mag dumps. But the gas system wears eventually and it will stop cycling fully. I need to replace the piston assembly after about 5000 rounds . I bought a full parts system with it. It’s really fun to shoot but for my purposes , I can’t trust it in a competition. I prefer my Sig P320 TGX build.
Went isn't there more pistols that have a front and rear sights that do not move during recoil and same with pistol optics. Instead of the whole slide moving during recoil, the sides of the slide cycle similar to the Alien?
Would love to see a gun manufacturer create an electronic trigger using the Red dot battery to power it.... Pie in the sky idea, but would be great to see.
That was $5000 vs $4000 vs $1500 (and the regular duo-tone TS which I got and prefer was under $1000). I assure you you can find a gunsmith that will make you decent trigger job and a compensator on CZ TS for under a $2500! 😉
Oh, or you could exchange all trigger parts yourself for under $400...
Staccato isn't 4 grand.
Mine cost just a little over 2k. My TSO cost around 1600.
@@thefrogking481 CZC Shadow 2 Accu is 2.2k. i think if you shot that you'd think its just as nice to shoot as a staccato.
also you can't use the staccato in any of the USPSA Divisions it would excel in.....so meh.
@@thefrogking481 thats am xc... the staccato P is 2-3k depending on build.. but yes a staccato P with threaded barrel and threat cadre comp is a poor man's XC
Thinking of the TSO next. Aliens are still unobtainium. Staccato looks sexiest but I’m not sold on the 1911 /2011 double safety. The Blue grip optic ready CZ is also intriguing…
The Dan Wesson DWX would be another gun to throw into this mix if they actually existed.
My little shop in Kansas had the CZ Parrot. I about passed out when I saw it. They make so few and import even less
I saw a Parrot once, little gun shop in NC. It's funny the things you see in any given gun shop. That's why I always tell my wife we need to stop at whatever random shop we come across 😂
How did they like Glock mags and did they 80s hip-fire well?
Ironically, its arguable that the Stacatto would be the worst for competition. It couldnt be used in IDPA and it would be in the open class for USPSA and Steel Plate meaning it wouldbe against $6k+ race guns. The other 2 could be used in far more divisions in USPSA and I even think the Alien could be used in IDPA.
the XC is the unlimited model, they also make the XL model which is designed for the limited class, i believe the XL would have been a more apples to apples comparison for this video
Staccato is always my Favorite and it is on m bucket list, but what I would like to see is the Staccato and the Alien have a baby. now that would be a very unique combination a piston driven Staccato
could you mount the red dot to the front of the slide or would this cause issues. Have the slide milled in the front or not an option at all?
I’d like to hear your opinion on the Bul Armory 1911 commander in 9 mm
It’s kinda interesting when Tim talks about what he looks for in a good 1911. One of which was the safety well apparently that has always been a thing. Because my Colt WW1 vintage true 1911 that was produced in 1914 has a beautifully tactical and solid safety. It’s just funny to me how one of my earliest firearms has design features that are still relevant today.
Atlas gun works would like a word with yall. The xc is nice, but the hyperion is on another level
I have close to 10,000 rounds through my Staccato C2 and don't have any complaints other than maybe the weight. I'm running a HS 507c and SL TLR-7A and 17 rounds. 124gn Sierra JHP. 2.601 LBS. Staccato has at least for me the best customer service and I trust the C2 with my life plain and simple.
NGL, when I saw the title, I thought this was going to be an Honest Outlaw review lol.
I have a legitimate question about something mentioned in the beginning. If we are comparing factory 9mm or factory 9mm+P, and all handguns are 4.5 to 6 inches in barrel length... Then what is it about the Alien that makes it 'shoot flatter'? I have been shooting since the early 70's and have always thought it was the cartridge (90%) or so, and barrel length makes up the balance. But one 9mm handgun vs a few others? Please explain that.
I have a TSO and 2 different Staccato's (C2, P) don't have the model you are using yet. I am a big fan of the CZ'S and like my Staccatos big question is the Alien worth me selling a few guns to spend 6 thousand dollars for it? I am not a competitive shooter, I would call myself more of a collector. I do go to the range but only spend 2 to 300 rounds a month. Still on the fence of the Alien. I hope other companies come out with the style(innovation) so that it wouldn't be so expensive. Great vid
MAC - not sure what’s going on with your XC, but mine does NOT return to battery that slowly. Mine returns as you’d expect with any standard 9mm recoil spring. Yours definitely appears to have some issues. I have two friend that also have XCs and none of the three have issue yours seems to.
Sti is winner hands down
Great video. Hey Jason you’re lookin pretty fit . Lost some Lb’s it looks like ? I need to hit the gym and lose some weight myself.
Can you change the spring on the 2011 so it goes back into battery harder?
They should relocate the red dot mounting point just above the chamber, so the rear serrations can be unobstructed.
That's an interesting thought.
I want a staccato but I want the full frame and full slide to where they are flush I don't like how they are made now