For those who wonder why Abby’s dad said “why” when Marlene said she’s gonna tell Joel, it’s not because he’s heartless it’s because they still see Joel as a smuggler and a smuggler only, nothing more. Plus Joel was part of that group of bad men so it’s not like they see him as a loving and caring person. People need to understand perspective.
Was he right to not want to tell Joel? Well, Marlene told him and Joel killed nearly the entire hospital, destroying any chance they had for a vaccine for a literal zombie epidemic 😅. Yes, he was right to not take the added risk of telling Joel.
@@x0x0skiller2 it wasn’t a for sure fix. He was gonna “try” n use Ellie’s brain to make a vaccine. They were experimenting. He hadn’t been successful making one yet. So it was a gamble to kill Ellie for a hope. I wouldn’t kill my love one for an experiment n neither would u so cut it out
According to who? When I played it I killed about 2 or 3 firelfies plus the surgeon and marlene. Everyone I killed as joel had weapons pointed at me first. @@x0x0skiller2
Empathy is the key to this game. There are 2 types of people. There are those who are able to overcome the hatred of Abby and try to understand. And then there are those who cannot, and are therefore not satisfied with the story.
@@hildegardvonbingen9092 which is why her friends ended up dying because of her consistent need for revenge on joel. When you play as abby, you saw that she still had PTSD after killing joel. I hated people saying she got away scott free because she didnt. Her organization thinks she's a traitor. Her best friend and lover is dead. Near the end, if ellie just stayed with Dina. Abby and lev would've died on that beach
@@PublicSecretPlan Same thing with Ellie, her desire for revenge got Jessie Killed, crippled Tommy (though he’s at fault at that too) and lost Dina and JJ in the end.
Yes this what i want form the conversation around this game. I actually know the story before play this game and I tought it was pretty bad,but i when i play the game i completely fall in love with it and i cried numerous time during the gameplay and i cant belived i cried so many time during abby story.
"I don't want to be in a difficult position, dammit!" Ha, I think that sums up a lot of the backlash against this game and ironically its central theme. Some people don't like having conflicting emotions, they don't want to see Abby as a nuanced character they want to see her as irredeemably evil so their revenge can be satisfying, just the way she saw Joel and Ellie sees her.
They wanted another Uncharted game, but this is TLOU. I swear it seems like people just forgot all the horrific stuff that happened in Part 1. Part 1 was not a "and they lived happily ever after" ending by any means, and some people treat it like it was. Part 2 directly deals with the issues that Part 1 ended on.
@@vetteazul5114 No it fuckin' doesn't. Ellie's immunity, her knowledge of Joel's lie and The Fireflies all basically leads nowhere and amounts to 2 or 3 flashback missions tops. This fuck-up could've been handled WAY better.
During your break in the middle, what you said about Joel, Ellie and Abby is the most level headed take I have heard from anyone who has played this game and I really appreciated it. Thank you.
Love all the reactions to the revelation that you have to play as Abby after she just killed Jesse, presumably Tommy, and interrupted the showdown with Ellie. I was repulsed by it too and hated every step I was taking with Abby. But I'm a gamer, had to to soldier on and see this bold and damning direction ND was taking with this game. In the end, I empathized with Abby and truly loved her as a character. Joel's still my dude though!
Context: Mel was wholly cooperating with Ellie, and only after Ellie shot Owen did Mel try to fight. Mel is a medic as was just going to a different location to help; as Manny said 'She's not a grunt.'
keylimepai I agree, like why tf did she keep going out when she’s pregnant? It was only a matter of time in a world where Scars, Infected, Hunters, or Ellie want you dead
@@Isaisac862 Honestly, she probably didn't have much choice in the matter. She was still a soldier in the WLF, under orders from Isaac. He really doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would care much if one of his soldiers was pregnant. Hell, after Abby goes AWOL off the base he interrogates every member of the Salt Lake Crew and Nora says that Isaac was "pretty rough on Mel." That's what I always thought anyways.
Nikki "i dont wanna be abby, fuck this bitch" I literally just fucking rolled over dying. I also loved abby by the end too but man I said the same shit at this part
So happy to see how open minded you guys were. I had the exact same situation. I did not want to sympathize with Abby. I felt Ellie's hatred. Naughty Dog did an amazing job in this game and story. 6 weeks after finishing this game, I'm still in awe at what this game made me feel.
As soon as I switched to Abby i said I don’t wanna be this bitch……and then as soon as we see what happens to her dad I just said “well that complicates things.”
Try over 4 years. I still think about these characters. Both groups. I love how Naughty Dog characters are just people. No lame perfect heroes. Just people. With pros & cons. It makes them believable and so easy to sympathize with. TLOU is art. Simple as that ❤️
I just realized from rewatching this scene: when Marlene realizes Abby’s there, she makes the decision, not only because she’s the leader, but because, she probably realizes if the decision comes “from on high”, she can take the blame and heat off so that Abby will blame her Marlene and not her own dad.
Other fun fact: if ellie knew that Joel killed Marlene, she might even tried to kill him. She almost raised her. All in all. Joel have kidnap her because he never grieve her daugther.
@Geralt of Trivia She doesn't. Abby cares about her dad, and the difficulty she thinks he's going through while being put on the spot if he would sacrifice his own daughter as readily as he sounds like he's sacrificing Ellie. Abby only sees her as the Immune Girl, but the implication is she's never met Ellie nor even seen what she looks like. So, Abby says what she says, at least in part to make her own dad feel better about whatever decision she thinks he's making. And Abby herself possibly even believes she would make the choice to sacrifice herself if it were her. The issue (for me and, perhaps, for many others) is that Abby offers to make that choice knowing the choice came down to that. Ellie was never given the choice. Based on this scene and the end of the first game, Jerry and Marlene effectively made the choice for Ellie.
Love this playthrough guys. It is tough for many to view the story with an open mind because they feel so connected to Joel considering you literally control him as a player which is a big difference than a movie or tv show where youre just a viewer. Its tough going in with an open mind but I think if you try to you'll enjoy the game and the story a lot more.
Mel went out with Manny and Abby because it was only suppose to be a routine mission, nothing dangerous. I don't think any of them expected for Scars to be waiting for them 5 min. into their journey to be fair. Love this playthrough, I watch your reactions to movies/TV shows but didn't know yall played games too :)
For future help, you may want to try and read the *whole* letter. Scrolling down one more sentence would've revealed the major clue as to what the safe combo was. As for the number itself, it's usually dates, phone numbers, or on the letters themselves. Usually, they're located within the same immediate vicinity of each other.
its nice to see your going in with a open mind and willing to see things unfold from another perspective. I actually enjoyed playing abby's part more than ellie's and i like both characters.
If you really stay open, you will be honored and you will get the best gaming experience. Because then I can promise you that it will be a lot harder emotionally.
Dirty is the perfect word. I watch the full gameplay on your twitch channel ( I'm like four streams behind) and I was in my feelings when you had to play Abby. Especially after that cliffhanger.
I think all this game is 'dirty' not just second half. I mean, protagonist (both Ellie and Abby) act like horrible person. Or you meant that you don't like Abby so the second half is shit cause of that?
Thanks man, finally somebody who looks at this story with an open mind. I think many of the negative reviews come from people, who aren't like "flexible" enough in there mind to enjoy this change of perspective. I don't want to insult anybody, but to me it somehow feels very childish, how many people react to this game. As if they had a story in their mind, how they wanted stuff to happen, and now they are frustrated, because the game tells us, that all the enemies we killed were human beings too, with families, dreams, wishes and that they are all suffering in this post apocalyptic world, just like Ellie does. I think people get pissed when they realise, that they didn't control the "hero"
ricardo demetrio alonso rojas haha. No. Abbys gameplay section is much better. However I believe that 99.9% of players had that same reaction. Pretty jarring transition.
2:11:33 you speak our souls. The scene where she finds her dad is frankly heartbreaking, but that doesn't change how I feel (don't feel) about that character.
@@NikkiStevenLIVE so happy to hear this. I'm loving watching this and since i didnt watch live i love knowing you enjoyed it as much as I did. My girlfriend is about to hit the nora part and I'm curious how shes going to feel about this swap haha
2:35:04 "You're an asshole" with the evil grin reminds me of the first game with the evil grin "did you do that?". Also fun fact, if you do throw it outside, Bear will sit in sadness and whine. I'm also an asshole.
Owen rushed in because he was protecting his child. To be honest, I really respect Abby for breaking that cycle of revenge by not killing Ellie and Dina. Especially Ellie for a second time. To be honest, Naughty Dog isn't forcing you to like Abby, they're trying to give you her perception and viewpoint. This game is suppose to challenge the way you feel about every character. No spoilers obviously... but in my opinion, Abby was the most morally defensible character in this game that actually grows unlike Ellie.
I wouldn’t say Ellie doesn’t grow. I think she does - it’s just she’s at a different point then Abby. When we are playing as Abby - for the most part - it is after her quest for revenge. It’s heavily implied she did a lot of terrible shit during her quest - Mel tell her she’s a piece of shit because of it - but we didn’t see it. We see Abby’s redemption arc which causes her to grow. Ellie is at the point of her journey that Abby was at prior - doing horrible deeds. Except we don’t see Abby during it except for Joel’s death. I’d say Ellie definitely grows by the end by giving up her quest and sparing Abby in the end. Their journeys are parallel- they’re just at different points in it when we play as them.
I mean she didn’t exactly break it, she still killed Jessie, shot Tommy in the head, she also killed a bunch of her own people over some scars she just met, cheated with Owen, and tried to slit Dina’s throat before Lev had to stop her, I just don’t see the growth considering the fact that she showed no remorse or regrets for any of her actions unlike Ellie who was visibly shaken and torn after she killed Nora, or Mel like yea she spared Ellie and Dina but in the end Ellie did the same for her and Lev
i was also confused by the switch to abby, but i grew to enjoy it. "putting oneself in someone's shoes" is a common saying, but you can never really do that in real life. but here, you get to do that, literally.
Anxiously awaiting your final impressions of the game. I know you were at a loss for words for most of the end stream (I followed it on twitch) (as many of us were) but I could tell you had a lot on your mind. Love to see where you ended up!
I love that they did the zebra scene. normally the phrase goes "If you hear hoofbeats, dont think zebras". Yet the first abby controlled segment features us tracking a hooved animal in a game full of horses, we expect to find a horse, but low and behold...a zebra! Abbys the exact same, we see hr kill jesse and joel and com after the rest befor cutting to black, everything about her screams villain, more importantly villain not to be sympathized with....and yet we get presented with something far different and more complex. Abbys our zebra, our jacked scary ass zebra.
"I don't wanna be abby fuck this bitch" perfect answer ever hahaha when we don't know Abby's story we have so much anger towards her... that's why it's important to know never judge someone without know who they are
I yry to watch yall as much as I can but the twitch app runs my battery down to fast. So I have to wait till yall up load the games here to watch. Love watching yall and yall are so down to earth all around good people. I'm a lurker as yall called it. I like all that yall do. Great job on all your videos.
Nikki I'm with you on the dogs! It's so tough!!!! It's just a game I keep telling myself. It's even worse when you realize this was their dog they took out during the 1/2 half of this video :( UGHHHH lol it's okay! it's pretend!!!!
@@NikkiStevenLIVE True I'm also primarily on PC but for certain games where I had to use a controller or for the odd PS4 exclusive that's how I made the transition. It's awkward AF tho.
I know right? I love the content but this has been erking me haha. I think its very much a trained muscle memory thing, putting higher sensitivity really helps retrain the brain on this one.
It's not the making of this one, but you should check out "Grounded: The Making of The Last of Us" It is some pretty impressive stuff when it comes to the voice over work and motion capture.
I like you guys, your opinions are always so open minded and interesting. You are really mature about the story. I am about to hit the main big daddy Clicker boss and I am so terrified I had to save it for another day I couldn't take the tension. It gets so real when playing with Abby I love her so much. I love the person she is. give her time she will get under your skin.
Imagine watching Walking Dead from perspective of Negan... im sure we would have different feelings when he bashed heads of survivors with the Lucille... :) Im glad they practically didn't do that dynamic duo second time (or even third time in recent history of gaming). We already had Part I, later on we had God Of War were relationship father-son was presented greatly so doing that again just so please gamers would be a waste. Not too often we have chance to flip the coin and see other side of the story so... i'm good with that here. And btw., when i completed Part I, i remember that i said to myself after ending that 'it will bite us into ass' sooner or later. And it did.
Someone probably said already but the combo for most safes are on the (NOTES or at least tells a hint look at notes better😑)......it was an annoyance that u left the safe (personal pet peeve😱)
The only thing I would change in last of us part 2 is I would have you play her 4 year ago segment before she meets Joel, so now the player is aware of what's happening but has to see it then from Joel's perspective, making us fear and understand abby before the act
I just thought of something. How tf do they see under water? They don't have goggles, and we know that water is absolutely disgusting so opening our eyes under it is impossible unless you want an eye infection.
(Almost Forgot, instead of editing my other comment I’ll just leave it here) 2:23:20 Abby walked in after The Deed, whereas Ellie was Present and Witnessed The Deed, I get that both suffered an emotional Trauma, But in my opinion Witnessing it, Is worse. They both feel helpless. But From what we know in these Two games. Ellie would be Affected Harder. Remember, Joel- You don’t know Loss” Ellie- “Everyone that I’ve cared about has either died or left me, Everyone… F*cking Except for You.” And her fear, “I’m scared of ending up alone.” After 7 Years these still Hit hard For me. Sorry, I’ve seen some people forget about these gems moments In the First one. And being a Big Ellie Fan, I mean I see Both sides, But up till Day Three We only had One side. But it’s all about perspective, There are no heroes or villains in The TLOU universe, Just survivors. And I love it.
i don’t know if i agree that it was harder for ellie, at least not for that reason. abby has a loving dad she has relied on her whole life, he took care of her from the time she was born and they are presumably related by blood. ellie and joel have known each other for five years. for two of those they were estranged. their connection happened because they didn’t have anyone else and they needed each other. what i do think is that both ellie and joel have horrible coping mechanisms, ellie because she has never felt safety and parental love. i think abby used her grief over her father to build herself up to avenge him. ellie let her grief physically eat her up. but i don’t think the pain was any less for abby.
You were so close to unlocking that safe with Abby nooo just scroll down a little bit on the trailer note reveals what the code is. Hint is also in trailer.
I say give Abby a chance... I compare her story arch to Jamie Lannister (Game of Thrones)... Someone you immediately despise or even hate, but slowly understand or empathize with, not like that's subjective I know, but understand her point of view, whether we like it or not. Much like Jamie Lannister for example he is not redeemed, but rather understood those two things very different because Jamie still push a little boy out the window and Abby killed Joel. So her story is framed in a empathize rather then sympathize and Ellie's story is framed in sympathize rather then empathize. Very very interesting and surprisingly great story telling. So give her a chance.
From here on out. We have to do an exercise in empathy and critical thinking. Abby is Ellie in this. The same motivation, the same hunger for revenge. If you can't see the parallel and feel for both of them, you are missing the point. "these people are like us, just on a different path." Abby spent longer, obsessed with revenge and killed only the person who was responsible. Ellie, though justified in doing so as they were attacking her, went through tons of people, including the people Abby cared most about. If Abby wanted to be like Ellie, she could have ordered Ellie and Tommy be put down, but she didn't because they weren't her target. The question comes to it though, if she was forced to, if they were attacking her or withholding information, would she have done exactly what Ellie did? The answer is yes, because Ellie and Abby are the same, they just happened to be on the opposite sides of circumstance. I like Abby, i like Ellie. I can't bring myself to be on one side or the other, despite how i felt about Joel.
Ill say, being hyper-empathetic, it was really easy for me to accept feeling bad for Abby and it was really easy for me to even grow to like her (nooooot more than Ellie tho xD) and Owen. I like Mel in the beginning, but when she called Abby a piece of shit, i was like, hey, everyone in the apocalypse is a piece of shit. The level to which you are one is irrelevant. You may have not hunted down your father's killer, but you still aint no better. I kinda felt neutral for Nora. Manny i disliked through and through because man, theres no reason to spit on his body..
Well, she didn't call Abby a piece of shit because she was doing what everyone else in the apocalypse was doing. She called her that because Abby decided she needed a piece of Owen after he started seeing Mel. Manny absolutely had reason to spit on Joel. From Manny's perspective, Joel traded the lives of a hundred fireflies for nothing.
I mean Abby did have sex with Owen knowing that he and Mel were together and expecting a kid. Manny was just...kinda there. I was too happy when Tommy popped his melon
Same, lol. It really wasn't that much of an uphill battle for me to feel for her. Ellie is my girl and Joel is my guy, but never was I blinded to the fact that they do some awful stuff that negatively affects others. I wasn't at all surprised that Joel died. Maybe the manner in which he died, but not that someone came after him. It is crazy that people can make it to the end of the game and still want to kill Abby in the final fight. The whole thing disgusted me beyond belief. Both women were just so miserable...
(I know this is three weeks old, and you have completed the game, little long Read ahead) 2:19:30 “why do we have to have this scene?” My guess was they wanted to recreate the Heartfelt moment between Ellie and Joel in TLOU 1 , The giraffe scene. But because Abby was a ‘Hated’ Character they went a step further and had them save A momma zebra, and to make us feel bad once again, For Joel’s actions in the First one. “Oh see, Jerry was a good nature loving guy.” Okay. A scene like this, was good for the Parallels between them. But I felt Like a lot of these parallel moments are forced into Abby’s sections, maybe they didn’t feel that way to others, maybe I was still closed minded at these sections. But after Completion and play through #2, I liked Abby’s side. Still, I heard there were 5 Days instead of three, I would’ve loved to see those extra Days, also In game Concept that you unlock for the Aquarium has A painted Scene Of An Ellie and Abby showdown. Loved the reaction. And The guess, “what we he the doctor or something?” It was amazing. That was another thing, people saying “The tried to Turn an NPC into A character, They changed the hospital to make it look like they had everything.” The first one, the Voice actor is actually the same guy to voice the doc, from the TLOU 1, but now they were able to Scan him and get his likeness in the game, the second one, maybe it was just limitations of Old gen. Again, loved the reaction.
The doctor, against his oath and all his human dignity, wanted to kill, so Joel had no choice but to do what a good father should do for his child... For years Abby has been unable to come to terms with the fact that her father was wrong - but that is her problem, which she should not have imposed on others - and so she has made an equally big mistake, creating another miserable Abby, who is just as much a victim of that mistake as she is a victim of revenge. Revenge is one of the darkest emotions, which never solves anything, but always destroys the lives of those involved. Unfortunately, people often do not even learn from their own mistakes and cannot command themselves either to say no or to stop. Abby's character development was also derailed because at the very end she could not even formulate an enlightened admission or even an apology to Ellie, who saved her life all together.
Say it once, say it a thousand times - Mel and Owen are the ones to blame for Mel and Owen. They had a chance to walk away from it and they fucked it up. Their baby is their fault, they didn't leave Ellie a choice. I still find it just pitiful how Naughty Dog decided to sterilize and beautify that dilapidated hospital in Abby's flashbacks just to help whitewash the Fireflies. Maybe one could argue they are trying to do a thing where it's rosier in Abby's memories than it was in reality, but I really doubt they deserve that much credit - they are just trying to make the dead surgeon the good Saint Jerry by retcon. But the truth is Abby's dad is dead because Abby's dad had it coming. Like a certain Sheriff's son once said in another apocalypse: "Look, I get it. My dad killed your dad. But you should know something: your dad was an asshole."
Joel didn't need to kill the surgeon. Regardless of whether you agree with what he was doing to Ellie, he still could have saved many lives without Ellie. Joel could have shot him in the foot and let the others in the room tend to him. In fact, in the first game that I'm guessing you're looking at through rose colored glasses, I've watched someone shoot him in the foot. The first time, nothing happened. The second time he dropped dead. So, it's very possible that they had that plot point planned for a sequel when they made the first game. Retconning or not, I disagree about the surgeon. And that confrontation with Mel and Owen went bad when Ellie didn't control range and let Owen get close. She should have told him to stand in the center of the room until she was done with Mel. You can say it two thousand times if you like, but Ellie screwed that up, and Mel and Owen didn't need to die there.
"If I was a doctor I would defend that too." You know, the thing is that you wouldn't because what the doctor does is a heavy ethical negligence. I'm a doctor and we don't just do the stuff we want the way we want because of "the greater good", that's what nazi doctors did, we have ethical principles to follow that dictate our way of acting and that give us rules to proceed. It is very concerning that the general feeling of this game regarding this topic evolves around moral (personal values) and not ethics (universal values) and that the public cannot see further than that worries me a lot. DISCLAIMER: I'm gong to talk about ETHIC PRINCIPLES (a universal way to evaluate if something was wrong or correct), not legality, that's for societies and this is the apocalypse. The correct way to proceed in this case would have been waiting until Ellie was awake, then sit her or her and Joel and explain the situation and what they wanted from her. If she said YES... then we wouldn't have a game lmao but if she said NO, then the doctor could have applied the "ethics of minimum" (I think it's the correct translation in English) meaning he could have put the general good before hers and do it anyway with ethics support. This way, the context (apocalypse) wouldn't have got in between ethics and practice but on the contrary, it would have supported the decision. However, THEY NEEEDED TO ASK, and not doing that basically what they did was kidnapping a minor to remove something from her while she was asleep, also attempting to murder her (yes, murder), plus kidnapping her father figure and trying to violently coerce him to leave. That without tlaking about all the things that make no sense about Dr Anderson (presumably a surgeon?) being the only one in the world to create ALONE the vaccine. Really, as a doctor this matter ticks me and it's the only thing that I didn't like in the game. All in all, was Joel saving Ellie ethically supported? YES. Was Joel killing the doctor ethically supported? Mhmm maybe not. First of all, on the gameplay you only are forced to kill Dr Anderson and if you don't use a gun, you kill him with his own weapon, which he doesn't really use against you. Maybe if he had tried to attack and not only warn Joel with it, killing him would have been ethically supported by self-defense but he doesn't. EDIT: killing Marlene was also ethically wrong even though as a player we understand his reasons.
I see your point, but I'd think after 20 years in such a world, things have "shifted"... and yes, maybe there is another doctor out there who could do it, but again, the world they are living in, the chances of finding one who can do it...
but you don't live twenty years into a zombie apocalypse with violent death around every corner and seemingly no end in sight, so you don't actually know what you would do in their situation. desperate people do desperate things. also you keep bringing joel into it like joel is her dad, but joel is a smuggler so he didn't need to be asked. his job was to get her there, that's it. now he can leave. instead he feels ownership and slaughters a hospital for her. ellie's mother put ellie in marlene's care, marlene is her guardian and she has given them the clear because she knows what ellie would want.
@@sgtmian if there's a excuse for the doctor to act like he did upon the argumentation of an apocalypse, there's plenty of excuse for Joel to have acted like he did and everything is justified. Joel is Ellie's father figure, for him she's a daughter, that's what the games are about, about their father-daughter relationship. You cannot blame Joel judging him by the rules of a normal civilization and at the same time put the doc in a pedestal by the rules of an apocalypse. Same rules for the both of them, either both of them are in the wrong or both of them did what they needed to do, judging otherwise is very hypocritical, which is what irks me about the atmosphere surrounding this game, its plot and its reception.
@@croxvamp i didn't put anyone up on a pedestal, you did. yes, joel is a father figure, but he is not her father, not by that point and definitely not to other people who have no idea what kind of relationship him and ellie have formed, so why in the world would anyone bring him in to make any sort of decision about the life of a child who isn't his? i don't actually blame joel, i also don't blame the fireflies for wanting to put an end to their nightmare at any cost.
@@sgtmian I think you don't get the point of The Last of Us, which doesn't mean he was in the right about what he did, but it's actually very understandable?
Personally.... In my perspective. I would have done the same thing Joel did. Yeah Ellie wanted to give her life to make a cure... But whose to say it would have worked? Whose to say that the fireflies wouldn't have used the cure as a means of power? Yeah Joel has done some bad shit... and his actions would have had consequences regardless... But he had been surviving for a long time basically without purpose. He was in it for himself and that was it. Ellie opened his eyes and through that developed relationship, gave him something worth living and fighting for. If I were in his shoes I wouldn't want to lose the one thing I'm living in this messed up zombie world for. Again, who says the cure would have worked? Maybe I'm being pessimistic sure, but I think that with the amount of infected in the world and how that had developed, everyone is gonna die sooner or later. At least if I stayed with the person who makes me want to continue to live, maybe living in that zombie world wouldn't be so bad.... I dont know man... I would understand if they wanted to kill Joel in the sequel. It make sense. Actions have consequences, wanna make Ellie the lead, ect... But the way he was killed and how it was presented, just leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I don't know man...
Well, it's very selfish view and you can have it by all means, you're entitled to your own opinion. But I m not gonna take a chance to save humanity cause I feel lonely, even though the person is Volunteering to do so so her life would have a meaning, I'm not gonna take that chance, cause I lost someone in my life and I want it back (valid reason but a selfish one, I understand if eliie wouldn't want to do it, but she wanted to and it was HER CHOICE and he had no right of changing it cause he wanted to. And yes it might wouldn't work, but without that they don't have even one chance to survival now, before he did the selfish move, they had a small light at the end of the tunnel to restore humanity or to save whats left of it.
@@alexandrrauzer4969 To be fair they didn't give Ellie much of a choice either. They just took her right after she nearly drowned to death and prepared to put her under the knife.
i think everyone would do what joel did. even the doctor, just look at his face when marlene asks him what he would do if it was his daughter. that's the point, it was a difficult decision. the way joel was killed makes perfect sense. we need to feel the anger that ellie feels, so we can buy in in her quest for revenge. if he died like a hero, or idk, in 1v1 against abby, it woudn't make sense for ellie to seek revenge, because he died for something/fair and square. but because he died for nothing, in a way that feels so unfair, we understand why ellie would want revenge. and we would also want it so bad.
@Brandon Goodman don't call me an idiot. I know what you mean and I probably would do the same, like a lot of people actually would, that's why it is selfish, cause it serves the goals of only one person, he did it for himself cause he loved her, fireflies were ready to do it for the humanity and they knew it's wrong but In that grey world you had to make sacrifices. But again, I completely see your point and don't necessarily see that as a bad choice to make:)
I think the problem with this take is that you're assuming that factored into Joels logic. But we're given insight into his character throughout the game, and we know that it was a visceral, selfish, survival instinct. If he lost Ellie, he thought that was the end of him as a person. So he wasn't going to lose himself. Any time he tells you it was because he didn't believe they could do it, he's lying.
For those who wonder why Abby’s dad said “why” when Marlene said she’s gonna tell Joel, it’s not because he’s heartless it’s because they still see Joel as a smuggler and a smuggler only, nothing more. Plus Joel was part of that group of bad men so it’s not like they see him as a loving and caring person. People need to understand perspective.
Exactly it's not like Jerry knew what Joel and Ellie went through
Tell me about it.
Was he right to not want to tell Joel? Well, Marlene told him and Joel killed nearly the entire hospital, destroying any chance they had for a vaccine for a literal zombie epidemic 😅. Yes, he was right to not take the added risk of telling Joel.
@@x0x0skiller2 it wasn’t a for sure fix. He was gonna “try” n use Ellie’s brain to make a vaccine. They were experimenting. He hadn’t been successful making one yet. So it was a gamble to kill Ellie for a hope. I wouldn’t kill my love one for an experiment n neither would u so cut it out
According to who? When I played it I killed about 2 or 3 firelfies plus the surgeon and marlene. Everyone I killed as joel had weapons pointed at me first. @@x0x0skiller2
The voice actress for Abby was phenomenal. I FELT her pain when she discovered her dad was dead.
Empathy is the key to this game.
There are 2 types of people. There are those who are able to overcome the hatred of Abby and try to understand.
And then there are those who cannot, and are therefore not satisfied with the story.
@@hildegardvonbingen9092 which is why her friends ended up dying because of her consistent need for revenge on joel. When you play as abby, you saw that she still had PTSD after killing joel. I hated people saying she got away scott free because she didnt. Her organization thinks she's a traitor. Her best friend and lover is dead. Near the end, if ellie just stayed with Dina. Abby and lev would've died on that beach
@@hildegardvonbingen9092 the point literally whooshed over your head dude.
this game deserved GOTY award
@@PublicSecretPlan Same thing with Ellie, her desire for revenge got Jessie Killed, crippled Tommy (though he’s at fault at that too) and lost Dina and JJ in the end.
2:35:21 most mature take on the whole thing I've seen from any UA-camr or Streamer so far. Kudos
Yes this what i want form the conversation around this game. I actually know the story before play this game and I tought it was pretty bad,but i when i play the game i completely fall in love with it and i cried numerous time during the gameplay and i cant belived i cried so many time during abby story.
"I don't want to be in a difficult position, dammit!" Ha, I think that sums up a lot of the backlash against this game and ironically its central theme. Some people don't like having conflicting emotions, they don't want to see Abby as a nuanced character they want to see her as irredeemably evil so their revenge can be satisfying, just the way she saw Joel and Ellie sees her.
They wanted another Uncharted game, but this is TLOU. I swear it seems like people just forgot all the horrific stuff that happened in Part 1. Part 1 was not a "and they lived happily ever after" ending by any means, and some people treat it like it was. Part 2 directly deals with the issues that Part 1 ended on.
People don't like bad writing ruining their story experience, especially if the previous staff was fired for disagreeing with Neils close mindedness.
LEE Mahome I think this game will start the trend of two-sided story games now. It disappointed me briefly but I’ve come to appreciate it now.
@@vetteazul5114 No it fuckin' doesn't.
Ellie's immunity, her knowledge of Joel's lie and The Fireflies all basically leads nowhere and amounts to 2 or 3 flashback missions tops. This fuck-up could've been handled WAY better.
Zefram Cochrane it’s ironic that someone using the name Zefram Cochrane would be whiny and close-minded
These 2 games really are amazing story telling. It's kinda crazy how many people couldn't or refused to appreciate it.
During your break in the middle, what you said about Joel, Ellie and Abby is the most level headed take I have heard from anyone who has played this game and I really appreciated it. Thank you.
I feel like it’s important to step back and see the story for what it is. Appreciate the message
Love all the reactions to the revelation that you have to play as Abby after she just killed Jesse, presumably Tommy, and interrupted the showdown with Ellie. I was repulsed by it too and hated every step I was taking with Abby. But I'm a gamer, had to to soldier on and see this bold and damning direction ND was taking with this game. In the end, I empathized with Abby and truly loved her as a character. Joel's still my dude though!
its the project of the game. Fighting antipathy. Like Abby, Lev and Ellie try to.
Martin Michaud *apathy*
"We killed her dad!" I love how even after all these years, we as players feel like we killed, saved and lived as Joel.
Nikki: ”Oh, we have to play as Abby now, nu uh, fuck that”
*10 minutes later*
”Damn it, now I feel bad for her!”
You just had to jinx yourself.
Context: Mel was wholly cooperating with Ellie, and only after Ellie shot Owen did Mel try to fight. Mel is a medic as was just going to a different location to help; as Manny said 'She's not a grunt.'
Yeah Owens love for Abby cost Mel her life. Douchebag.
Mel shouldve stayed at the damn stadium
@@hildegardvonbingen9092 are you in blind?
keylimepai I agree, like why tf did she keep going out when she’s pregnant? It was only a matter of time in a world where Scars, Infected, Hunters, or Ellie want you dead
@@Isaisac862 Honestly, she probably didn't have much choice in the matter. She was still a soldier in the WLF, under orders from Isaac. He really doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would care much if one of his soldiers was pregnant. Hell, after Abby goes AWOL off the base he interrogates every member of the Salt Lake Crew and Nora says that Isaac was "pretty rough on Mel."
That's what I always thought anyways.
Thanks for having an open mind while playing this game! You will truely enjoy it! Cant wait to see yall reaction for the rest of the game!!
Nikki "i dont wanna be abby, fuck this bitch" I literally just fucking rolled over dying. I also loved abby by the end too but man I said the same shit at this part
So happy to see how open minded you guys were. I had the exact same situation. I did not want to sympathize with Abby. I felt Ellie's hatred. Naughty Dog did an amazing job in this game and story. 6 weeks after finishing this game, I'm still in awe at what this game made me feel.
As soon as I switched to Abby i said I don’t wanna be this bitch……and then as soon as we see what happens to her dad I just said “well that complicates things.”
Try over 4 years. I still think about these characters. Both groups. I love how Naughty Dog characters are just people. No lame perfect heroes. Just people. With pros & cons. It makes them believable and so easy to sympathize with. TLOU is art. Simple as that ❤️
Every time they manually throw a molotov that could have been auto aimed I cry
It was awesome watching you guys live on Twitch play through this amazing game.S glad you are posting them here as well.
Had a feeling that you would enjoy it and it’s great that you keep that open minded perspective!
I just realized from rewatching this scene: when Marlene realizes Abby’s there, she makes the decision, not only because she’s the leader, but because, she probably realizes if the decision comes “from on high”, she can take the blame and heat off so that Abby will blame her Marlene and not her own dad.
Other fun fact: if ellie knew that Joel killed Marlene, she might even tried to kill him. She almost raised her. All in all. Joel have kidnap her because he never grieve her daugther.
@Geralt of Trivia She doesn't. Abby cares about her dad, and the difficulty she thinks he's going through while being put on the spot if he would sacrifice his own daughter as readily as he sounds like he's sacrificing Ellie. Abby only sees her as the Immune Girl, but the implication is she's never met Ellie nor even seen what she looks like. So, Abby says what she says, at least in part to make her own dad feel better about whatever decision she thinks he's making. And Abby herself possibly even believes she would make the choice to sacrifice herself if it were her.
The issue (for me and, perhaps, for many others) is that Abby offers to make that choice knowing the choice came down to that. Ellie was never given the choice. Based on this scene and the end of the first game, Jerry and Marlene effectively made the choice for Ellie.
i like how steven just goes with the flow even playing as abby...he's on auto pilot hahaha ...good lad, abby is my girl LOL
yep, surprised me too. I was expecting an angry reaction. I guess he just has an angry face lol.
@@sidsingh182 hahaha
2:13:38 The coin is at least 60 years old in-universe and 42 out-of-universe.
Now there's something to think about.
Love this playthrough guys. It is tough for many to view the story with an open mind because they feel so connected to Joel considering you literally control him as a player which is a big difference than a movie or tv show where youre just a viewer. Its tough going in with an open mind but I think if you try to you'll enjoy the game and the story a lot more.
Mel went out with Manny and Abby because it was only suppose to be a routine mission, nothing dangerous. I don't think any of them expected for Scars to be waiting for them 5 min. into their journey to be fair.
Love this playthrough, I watch your reactions to movies/TV shows but didn't know yall played games too :)
Abby is one of best characters in this game. Just love Laura Bailey's performance.
I don't like playing as her
@@fightfannerd2078 why? She's like a simply better version of Ellie?
Funny going back and seeing your reactions to Abby early on vs the end.
hating abby in the beginning then loving her at the end is a whole vibe.
The reason Abby so buff. Is cause she dedicated her entire life after her father was killed to finding Joel n being prepared for when she finds him.
For future help, you may want to try and read the *whole* letter. Scrolling down one more sentence would've revealed the major clue as to what the safe combo was. As for the number itself, it's usually dates, phone numbers, or on the letters themselves. Usually, they're located within the same immediate vicinity of each other.
its nice to see your going in with a open mind and willing to see things unfold from another perspective. I actually enjoyed playing abby's part more than ellie's and i like both characters.
That convention center at 20:30 looks EXACTLY like that in the real world. I went to a comic con there back in 2018.
I laughed pretty hard when I heard Nikki's reaction when you start playing as Abby. I had the exact same reaction!!!!
If you really stay open, you will be honored and you will get the best gaming experience. Because then I can promise you that it will be a lot harder emotionally.
Dirty is the perfect word. I watch the full gameplay on your twitch channel ( I'm like four streams behind) and I was in my feelings when you had to play Abby. Especially after that cliffhanger.
I think all this game is 'dirty' not just second half. I mean, protagonist (both Ellie and Abby) act like horrible person.
Or you meant that you don't like Abby so the second half is shit cause of that?
"I just don't feel like I can." Seriously, it is way to early to know that.
You've started the best part of the game!
THANK YOU!! It's hard to get into the game if you're not open minded, consider a lot of their perspective.
“look at that music.......，this game is so intense.....” your guys are adorable and having an open mind.
Thanks man, finally somebody who looks at this story with an open mind. I think many of the negative reviews come from people, who aren't like "flexible" enough in there mind to enjoy this change of perspective. I don't want to insult anybody, but to me it somehow feels very childish, how many people react to this game. As if they had a story in their mind, how they wanted stuff to happen, and now they are frustrated, because the game tells us, that all the enemies we killed were human beings too, with families, dreams, wishes and that they are all suffering in this post apocalyptic world, just like Ellie does.
I think people get pissed when they realise, that they didn't control the "hero"
Very well said.👍
"We have to be Abby now!? Oh hell nah!" 😂
@ricardo demetrio alonso rojas No, I never hated Abby either. I think a lot of people choose to hate her because it's easier than empathizing.
@ricardo demetrio alonso rojas No I loved playing as Abby. It was kind of cool how you could take down Infected with just one punch XD
I mean you are sort of meant to hate playing as her in the beginning, but then sympathize with her as you see the destruction of Joel and Ellie.
@ricardo demetrio alonso rojas well you are supposed to hate her in the beginning.But in the end i liked her. Took a while though.
ricardo demetrio alonso rojas haha. No. Abbys gameplay section is much better. However I believe that 99.9% of players had that same reaction.
Pretty jarring transition.
You’re one of the the only smart open minded people I’ve seen play this game.
Yay I was waiting for this !
2:11:33 you speak our souls.
The scene where she finds her dad is frankly heartbreaking, but that doesn't change how I feel (don't feel) about that character.
I mean they completely change that point of view later in their playthrough. Steven gave it like a 9.9999/10 lol.
And I actually bumped it up even more as I thought about it. Things changed as things settled in and as the story played out.
@@NikkiStevenLIVE so happy to hear this. I'm loving watching this and since i didnt watch live i love knowing you enjoyed it as much as I did. My girlfriend is about to hit the nora part and I'm curious how shes going to feel about this swap haha
This game is great....story too.
In case others haven't said anything, hitting r2 without aiming auto-aims throwable objects so you don't have to worry about missing them
"Why do we have to have that scene" hahahahaha. Because we must quickly see that the those people care for all life.
2:35:04 "You're an asshole" with the evil grin reminds me of the first game with the evil grin "did you do that?".
Also fun fact, if you do throw it outside, Bear will sit in sadness and whine.
I'm also an asshole.
Owen rushed in because he was protecting his child. To be honest, I really respect Abby for breaking that cycle of revenge by not killing Ellie and Dina. Especially Ellie for a second time. To be honest, Naughty Dog isn't forcing you to like Abby, they're trying to give you her perception and viewpoint. This game is suppose to challenge the way you feel about every character. No spoilers obviously... but in my opinion, Abby was the most morally defensible character in this game that actually grows unlike Ellie.
fantastic game and story. Loved it
@@HollowPoint_762 I agree wholeheartedly!
Thank you ! People just are so close minded and don’t ever want to see something different 🤦🏾♂️
I wouldn’t say Ellie doesn’t grow. I think she does - it’s just she’s at a different point then Abby. When we are playing as Abby - for the most part - it is after her quest for revenge. It’s heavily implied she did a lot of terrible shit during her quest - Mel tell her she’s a piece of shit because of it - but we didn’t see it. We see Abby’s redemption arc which causes her to grow. Ellie is at the point of her journey that Abby was at prior - doing horrible deeds. Except we don’t see Abby during it except for Joel’s death. I’d say Ellie definitely grows by the end by giving up her quest and sparing Abby in the end. Their journeys are parallel- they’re just at different points in it when we play as them.
I mean she didn’t exactly break it, she still killed Jessie, shot Tommy in the head, she also killed a bunch of her own people over some scars she just met, cheated with Owen, and tried to slit Dina’s throat before Lev had to stop her, I just don’t see the growth considering the fact that she showed no remorse or regrets for any of her actions unlike Ellie who was visibly shaken and torn after she killed Nora, or Mel like yea she spared Ellie and Dina but in the end Ellie did the same for her and Lev
Nice man I really didn’t expect you guys to like the game. And wife/girlfriend’s reaction is so funny😭
Why wouldn’t they have liked it? It’s a great game…
i was also confused by the switch to abby, but i grew to enjoy it. "putting oneself in someone's shoes" is a common saying, but you can never really do that in real life. but here, you get to do that, literally.
Loving this play through thanks for uploading to UA-cam, I dont usually get to watch live due to time zones and when you stream.
Anxiously awaiting your final impressions of the game. I know you were at a loss for words for most of the end stream (I followed it on twitch) (as many of us were) but I could tell you had a lot on your mind. Love to see where you ended up!
I love that they did the zebra scene. normally the phrase goes "If you hear hoofbeats, dont think zebras". Yet the first abby controlled segment features us tracking a hooved animal in a game full of horses, we expect to find a horse, but low and behold...a zebra! Abbys the exact same, we see hr kill jesse and joel and com after the rest befor cutting to black, everything about her screams villain, more importantly villain not to be sympathized with....and yet we get presented with something far different and more complex. Abbys our zebra, our jacked scary ass zebra.
They remembered to reload! Love it lmao this was a crazy game section
You didn't look in the boat and you missed a cool gun in that safe, ah well.
I feel genuinely bad for owen
"I don't wanna be abby fuck this bitch" perfect answer ever hahaha when we don't know Abby's story we have so much anger towards her... that's why it's important to know never judge someone without know who they are
"Ugh the blood like spurts out. Oh nasty! ..... Fuck yeah a machete!"
Lol'd when Nicky said this.
I yry to watch yall as much as I can but the twitch app runs my battery down to fast. So I have to wait till yall up load the games here to watch. Love watching yall and yall are so down to earth all around good people. I'm a lurker as yall called it. I like all that yall do. Great job on all your videos.
Nikki I'm with you on the dogs! It's so tough!!!! It's just a game I keep telling myself. It's even worse when you realize this was their dog they took out during the 1/2 half of this video :( UGHHHH lol it's okay! it's pretend!!!!
You're flicking the sticks. Put a bit of downward pressure when you aim for finer control
My trash at shooting with a controller. Mouse and keyboard is so much better.
@@NikkiStevenLIVE True I'm also primarily on PC but for certain games where I had to use a controller or for the odd PS4 exclusive that's how I made the transition. It's awkward AF tho.
I know right? I love the content but this has been erking me haha. I think its very much a trained muscle memory thing, putting higher sensitivity really helps retrain the brain on this one.
Y’all are great.
It's not the making of this one, but you should check out "Grounded: The Making of The Last of Us" It is some pretty impressive stuff when it comes to the voice over work and motion capture.
I love that Nikki called a clicker a walker ❤
I like you guys, your opinions are always so open minded and interesting. You are really mature about the story. I am about to hit the main big daddy Clicker boss and I am so terrified I had to save it for another day I couldn't take the tension. It gets so real when playing with Abby I love her so much. I love the person she is. give her time she will get under your skin.
Abby is a well written flawed character just like Joel and Ellie
5 episodes in and my guy still hasn’t learned to go prone in short grass to sly enemies 😂
😂😂
Imagine watching Walking Dead from perspective of Negan... im sure we would have different feelings when he bashed heads of survivors with the Lucille... :)
Im glad they practically didn't do that dynamic duo second time (or even third time in recent history of gaming). We already had Part I, later on we had God Of War were relationship father-son was presented greatly so doing that again just so please gamers would be a waste. Not too often we have chance to flip the coin and see other side of the story so... i'm good with that here. And btw., when i completed Part I, i remember that i said to myself after ending that 'it will bite us into ass' sooner or later. And it did.
I live your gameplay.
Oh no you missed climbing the train car in the boat section and the manual in the boat 🙃
Someone probably said already but the combo for most safes are on the (NOTES or at least tells a hint look at notes better😑)......it was an annoyance that u left the safe (personal pet peeve😱)
The only thing I would change in last of us part 2 is I would have you play her 4 year ago segment before she meets Joel, so now the player is aware of what's happening but has to see it then from Joel's perspective, making us fear and understand abby before the act
I just thought of something. How tf do they see under water? They don't have goggles, and we know that water is absolutely disgusting so opening our eyes under it is impossible unless you want an eye infection.
This game was great! I'm looking forward to yall's reaction tho :)
You had moltovs and trip mines for that bloater...
Bollocks to Joel! Sooner or later, everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences!
And so begins the 10 hour sidequest.
Ten hour side quest?
Abby is a protagonist like Ellie. Her part is the most important in the game, cause it makes you understand a lot of things.
the realization that you're being fkd over @2:11:30 🤣🤣
(Almost Forgot, instead of editing my other comment I’ll just leave it here) 2:23:20 Abby walked in after The Deed, whereas Ellie was Present and Witnessed The Deed, I get that both suffered an emotional Trauma, But in my opinion Witnessing it, Is worse. They both feel helpless. But From what we know in these Two games. Ellie would be Affected Harder. Remember, Joel- You don’t know Loss” Ellie- “Everyone that I’ve cared about has either died or left me, Everyone… F*cking Except for You.” And her fear, “I’m scared of ending up alone.” After 7 Years these still Hit hard For me. Sorry, I’ve seen some people forget about these gems moments In the First one. And being a Big Ellie Fan, I mean I see Both sides, But up till Day Three We only had One side. But it’s all about perspective, There are no heroes or villains in The TLOU universe, Just survivors. And I love it.
i don’t know if i agree that it was harder for ellie, at least not for that reason. abby has a loving dad she has relied on her whole life, he took care of her from the time she was born and they are presumably related by blood. ellie and joel have known each other for five years. for two of those they were estranged. their connection happened because they didn’t have anyone else and they needed each other. what i do think is that both ellie and joel have horrible coping mechanisms, ellie because she has never felt safety and parental love. i think abby used her grief over her father to build herself up to avenge him. ellie let her grief physically eat her up. but i don’t think the pain was any less for abby.
Personally as much as i disliked Abby, playing her part of the story is actually the most fun part of the game.
You were so close to unlocking that safe with Abby nooo just scroll down a little bit on the trailer note reveals what the code is. Hint is also in trailer.
I say give Abby a chance... I compare her story arch to Jamie Lannister (Game of Thrones)... Someone you immediately despise or even hate, but slowly understand or empathize with, not like that's subjective I know, but understand her point of view, whether we like it or not. Much like Jamie Lannister for example he is not redeemed, but rather understood those two things very different because Jamie still push a little boy out the window and Abby killed Joel. So her story is framed in a empathize rather then sympathize and Ellie's story is framed in sympathize rather then empathize. Very very interesting and surprisingly great story telling. So give her a chance.
From here on out. We have to do an exercise in empathy and critical thinking. Abby is Ellie in this. The same motivation, the same hunger for revenge. If you can't see the parallel and feel for both of them, you are missing the point. "these people are like us, just on a different path."
Abby spent longer, obsessed with revenge and killed only the person who was responsible. Ellie, though justified in doing so as they were attacking her, went through tons of people, including the people Abby cared most about.
If Abby wanted to be like Ellie, she could have ordered Ellie and Tommy be put down, but she didn't because they weren't her target. The question comes to it though, if she was forced to, if they were attacking her or withholding information, would she have done exactly what Ellie did? The answer is yes, because Ellie and Abby are the same, they just happened to be on the opposite sides of circumstance.
I like Abby, i like Ellie. I can't bring myself to be on one side or the other, despite how i felt about Joel.
They did not get the code combination in trailer they miss it look around bulletin board
Ill say, being hyper-empathetic, it was really easy for me to accept feeling bad for Abby and it was really easy for me to even grow to like her (nooooot more than Ellie tho xD) and Owen. I like Mel in the beginning, but when she called Abby a piece of shit, i was like, hey, everyone in the apocalypse is a piece of shit. The level to which you are one is irrelevant. You may have not hunted down your father's killer, but you still aint no better. I kinda felt neutral for Nora. Manny i disliked through and through because man, theres no reason to spit on his body..
Well, she didn't call Abby a piece of shit because she was doing what everyone else in the apocalypse was doing. She called her that because Abby decided she needed a piece of Owen after he started seeing Mel. Manny absolutely had reason to spit on Joel. From Manny's perspective, Joel traded the lives of a hundred fireflies for nothing.
I mean Abby did have sex with Owen knowing that he and Mel were together and expecting a kid. Manny was just...kinda there. I was too happy when Tommy popped his melon
I agree with you with the manny thing. I was able to get over abby killing joel, but manny spitting on him, nah I was never able to forgive lmfao
Same, lol. It really wasn't that much of an uphill battle for me to feel for her. Ellie is my girl and Joel is my guy, but never was I blinded to the fact that they do some awful stuff that negatively affects others. I wasn't at all surprised that Joel died. Maybe the manner in which he died, but not that someone came after him. It is crazy that people can make it to the end of the game and still want to kill Abby in the final fight. The whole thing disgusted me beyond belief. Both women were just so miserable...
I must say Manny was the best side character in the game for me. I just love how loyal he was to Abby.
(I know this is three weeks old, and you have completed the game, little long Read ahead) 2:19:30 “why do we have to have this scene?” My guess was they wanted to recreate the Heartfelt moment between Ellie and Joel in TLOU 1 , The giraffe scene. But because Abby was a ‘Hated’ Character they went a step further and had them save A momma zebra, and to make us feel bad once again, For Joel’s actions in the First one. “Oh see, Jerry was a good nature loving guy.” Okay. A scene like this, was good for the Parallels between them. But I felt Like a lot of these parallel moments are forced into Abby’s sections, maybe they didn’t feel that way to others, maybe I was still closed minded at these sections. But after Completion and play through #2, I liked Abby’s side. Still, I heard there were 5 Days instead of three, I would’ve loved to see those extra Days, also In game Concept that you unlock for the Aquarium has A painted Scene Of An Ellie and Abby showdown. Loved the reaction. And The guess, “what we he the doctor or something?” It was amazing. That was another thing, people saying “The tried to Turn an NPC into A character, They changed the hospital to make it look like they had everything.” The first one, the Voice actor is actually the same guy to voice the doc, from the TLOU 1, but now they were able to Scan him and get his likeness in the game, the second one, maybe it was just limitations of Old gen. Again, loved the reaction.
The doctor, against his oath and all his human dignity, wanted to kill, so Joel had no choice but to do what a good father should do for his child...
For years Abby has been unable to come to terms with the fact that her father was wrong - but that is her problem, which she should not have imposed on others - and so she has made an equally big mistake, creating another miserable Abby, who is just as much a victim of that mistake as she is a victim of revenge.
Revenge is one of the darkest emotions, which never solves anything, but always destroys the lives of those involved. Unfortunately, people often do not even learn from their own mistakes and cannot command themselves either to say no or to stop.
Abby's character development was also derailed because at the very end she could not even formulate an enlightened admission or even an apology to Ellie, who saved her life all together.
guys I think your "brightness" is way too high.
Game look better with dark, shadows etc visible (i think)
2:49:49
❤❤❤ the game
Whos here from 2023
Say it once, say it a thousand times - Mel and Owen are the ones to blame for Mel and Owen. They had a chance to walk away from it and they fucked it up. Their baby is their fault, they didn't leave Ellie a choice.
I still find it just pitiful how Naughty Dog decided to sterilize and beautify that dilapidated hospital in Abby's flashbacks just to help whitewash the Fireflies. Maybe one could argue they are trying to do a thing where it's rosier in Abby's memories than it was in reality, but I really doubt they deserve that much credit - they are just trying to make the dead surgeon the good Saint Jerry by retcon.
But the truth is Abby's dad is dead because Abby's dad had it coming. Like a certain Sheriff's son once said in another apocalypse: "Look, I get it. My dad killed your dad. But you should know something: your dad was an asshole."
Joel didn't need to kill the surgeon. Regardless of whether you agree with what he was doing to Ellie, he still could have saved many lives without Ellie. Joel could have shot him in the foot and let the others in the room tend to him. In fact, in the first game that I'm guessing you're looking at through rose colored glasses, I've watched someone shoot him in the foot. The first time, nothing happened. The second time he dropped dead. So, it's very possible that they had that plot point planned for a sequel when they made the first game. Retconning or not, I disagree about the surgeon. And that confrontation with Mel and Owen went bad when Ellie didn't control range and let Owen get close. She should have told him to stand in the center of the room until she was done with Mel. You can say it two thousand times if you like, but Ellie screwed that up, and Mel and Owen didn't need to die there.
Wow, you have some issues you need to work out.
"Sterilize and beutify the dilapidated hospital"
This is the dumbest shit i've heard
what about The Witcher 3?
2:25:41 Hell begins there :)
Things are NOT so black & white aren't they ;) ??
Have they ever been with this game?
"If I was a doctor I would defend that too." You know, the thing is that you wouldn't because what the doctor does is a heavy ethical negligence. I'm a doctor and we don't just do the stuff we want the way we want because of "the greater good", that's what nazi doctors did, we have ethical principles to follow that dictate our way of acting and that give us rules to proceed. It is very concerning that the general feeling of this game regarding this topic evolves around moral (personal values) and not ethics (universal values) and that the public cannot see further than that worries me a lot.
DISCLAIMER: I'm gong to talk about ETHIC PRINCIPLES (a universal way to evaluate if something was wrong or correct), not legality, that's for societies and this is the apocalypse.
The correct way to proceed in this case would have been waiting until Ellie was awake, then sit her or her and Joel and explain the situation and what they wanted from her. If she said YES... then we wouldn't have a game lmao but if she said NO, then the doctor could have applied the "ethics of minimum" (I think it's the correct translation in English) meaning he could have put the general good before hers and do it anyway with ethics support. This way, the context (apocalypse) wouldn't have got in between ethics and practice but on the contrary, it would have supported the decision. However, THEY NEEEDED TO ASK, and not doing that basically what they did was kidnapping a minor to remove something from her while she was asleep, also attempting to murder her (yes, murder), plus kidnapping her father figure and trying to violently coerce him to leave. That without tlaking about all the things that make no sense about Dr Anderson (presumably a surgeon?) being the only one in the world to create ALONE the vaccine. Really, as a doctor this matter ticks me and it's the only thing that I didn't like in the game.
All in all, was Joel saving Ellie ethically supported? YES. Was Joel killing the doctor ethically supported? Mhmm maybe not. First of all, on the gameplay you only are forced to kill Dr Anderson and if you don't use a gun, you kill him with his own weapon, which he doesn't really use against you. Maybe if he had tried to attack and not only warn Joel with it, killing him would have been ethically supported by self-defense but he doesn't.
EDIT: killing Marlene was also ethically wrong even though as a player we understand his reasons.
I see your point, but I'd think after 20 years in such a world, things have "shifted"... and yes, maybe there is another doctor out there who could do it, but again, the world they are living in, the chances of finding one who can do it...
but you don't live twenty years into a zombie apocalypse with violent death around every corner and seemingly no end in sight, so you don't actually know what you would do in their situation. desperate people do desperate things. also you keep bringing joel into it like joel is her dad, but joel is a smuggler so he didn't need to be asked. his job was to get her there, that's it. now he can leave. instead he feels ownership and slaughters a hospital for her. ellie's mother put ellie in marlene's care, marlene is her guardian and she has given them the clear because she knows what ellie would want.
@@sgtmian if there's a excuse for the doctor to act like he did upon the argumentation of an apocalypse, there's plenty of excuse for Joel to have acted like he did and everything is justified. Joel is Ellie's father figure, for him she's a daughter, that's what the games are about, about their father-daughter relationship.
You cannot blame Joel judging him by the rules of a normal civilization and at the same time put the doc in a pedestal by the rules of an apocalypse. Same rules for the both of them, either both of them are in the wrong or both of them did what they needed to do, judging otherwise is very hypocritical, which is what irks me about the atmosphere surrounding this game, its plot and its reception.
@@croxvamp i didn't put anyone up on a pedestal, you did. yes, joel is a father figure, but he is not her father, not by that point and definitely not to other people who have no idea what kind of relationship him and ellie have formed, so why in the world would anyone bring him in to make any sort of decision about the life of a child who isn't his? i don't actually blame joel, i also don't blame the fireflies for wanting to put an end to their nightmare at any cost.
@@sgtmian I think you don't get the point of The Last of Us, which doesn't mean he was in the right about what he did, but it's actually very understandable?
*Abby jumps to her death or dies in other various ways*
*I don't feel bad at all* =)
Not playing smart are we
Personally.... In my perspective. I would have done the same thing Joel did. Yeah Ellie wanted to give her life to make a cure... But whose to say it would have worked? Whose to say that the fireflies wouldn't have used the cure as a means of power?
Yeah Joel has done some bad shit... and his actions would have had consequences regardless... But he had been surviving for a long time basically without purpose. He was in it for himself and that was it. Ellie opened his eyes and through that developed relationship, gave him something worth living and fighting for.
If I were in his shoes I wouldn't want to lose the one thing I'm living in this messed up zombie world for. Again, who says the cure would have worked? Maybe I'm being pessimistic sure, but I think that with the amount of infected in the world and how that had developed, everyone is gonna die sooner or later.
At least if I stayed with the person who makes me want to continue to live, maybe living in that zombie world wouldn't be so bad.... I dont know man...
I would understand if they wanted to kill Joel in the sequel. It make sense. Actions have consequences, wanna make Ellie the lead, ect... But the way he was killed and how it was presented, just leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I don't know man...
Well, it's very selfish view and you can have it by all means, you're entitled to your own opinion. But I m not gonna take a chance to save humanity cause I feel lonely, even though the person is Volunteering to do so so her life would have a meaning, I'm not gonna take that chance, cause I lost someone in my life and I want it back (valid reason but a selfish one, I understand if eliie wouldn't want to do it, but she wanted to and it was HER CHOICE and he had no right of changing it cause he wanted to.
And yes it might wouldn't work, but without that they don't have even one chance to survival now, before he did the selfish move, they had a small light at the end of the tunnel to restore humanity or to save whats left of it.
@@alexandrrauzer4969 To be fair they didn't give Ellie much of a choice either. They just took her right after she nearly drowned to death and prepared to put her under the knife.
i think everyone would do what joel did. even the doctor, just look at his face when marlene asks him what he would do if it was his daughter. that's the point, it was a difficult decision.
the way joel was killed makes perfect sense. we need to feel the anger that ellie feels, so we can buy in in her quest for revenge. if he died like a hero, or idk, in 1v1 against abby, it woudn't make sense for ellie to seek revenge, because he died for something/fair and square. but because he died for nothing, in a way that feels so unfair, we understand why ellie would want revenge. and we would also want it so bad.
@Brandon Goodman don't call me an idiot. I know what you mean and I probably would do the same, like a lot of people actually would, that's why it is selfish, cause it serves the goals of only one person, he did it for himself cause he loved her, fireflies were ready to do it for the humanity and they knew it's wrong but In that grey world you had to make sacrifices. But again, I completely see your point and don't necessarily see that as a bad choice to make:)
I think the problem with this take is that you're assuming that factored into Joels logic. But we're given insight into his character throughout the game, and we know that it was a visceral, selfish, survival instinct. If he lost Ellie, he thought that was the end of him as a person. So he wasn't going to lose himself. Any time he tells you it was because he didn't believe they could do it, he's lying.
Abby's better than Ellie.
Vanilla is better than chocolate.
They both are consumed by revenge but I kinda like Abby a bit more than Ellie
There are no the better one.
Just two face of the same coin.
neither of them are better than the other, but i find ellie more interesting as a character.
I never feel bad for Abby even after finishing the game.
There are pretty large parts of the game missing. Like when did you even run into Jessie?
ummm we run into jessie at the end of playthough part 3
Stikker Gaming shit you’re right. Sorry.