The bolt on the SAM7 IS NOT cast . There is no use of "cast iron " on it either . From Arsenal below >>>>>>> "Bulgarian hot-die hammer forged receiver, bolt, bolt carrier, and double-hook trigger Cold hammer-forged 16.3 barrel from Arsenals Bulgarian factory, built on Steyr manufacturing technology Hard-chrome plated bore and chamber" .
thanks for the posting and information. i did notice when i put the relief in on the carrier it did feel soft with respect to speed of material removal, sparks, and speed of cut. that said forging does not necessary mean hard material, forged bolts come in a range of standard hardware to grade9. while all being forged in a screw machine then thread rolled, they range in varying degree of tensile and hardness.
had the c39v2 to the range today, ran another 120 rds thru it no issues. on the 100yd range it runs around 2 to 3 moa with red army ammo. after the previous range session, during cleaning the only irregularity i noted was very minor peaning on the top bolt lug. the carrier and receiver look fine. have not cleaned it after this trip yet to see if any thing is progressing. long range day with multiple firearms. when i get thru the cleaning i will post if anything looks abnormal. just getting started with it, count is around 350 to 400.
another range day with 100 rds on c39v2. i have a recoil buffer installed to see if it makes any difference in reliability, it does not. rifle ran the 100 rnds with no issues, red army ammo. the recoil buffer does prevent the carrier hold open function of the safety lever. after cleaning the rifle i have noted the receiver right locking lug has 2 small chip outs on its fwd corner where the bolt engages and locks up. the chip outs are smaller than pin head but they are there. they resemble what AKOU has shown on his testing of the c39v2. no defects noted on left receiver locking lug. the chipping has stared at about the 450-500 round count on this rifle. will continue to shoot and see what happens. i will consider breaking the corner of the right locking lug to see if the chip outs will blend out. continued shooting with the defect present may cause the defect to grow. this is along the lines of stop drilling a crack. starting to think c39v2 looks good but the metallurgy is not where it should be.
another 100 rounds, no issues at the range. shot a 10 inch plate at 300 yds. the right receiver locking lug chip outs that occurred the last range session were blended on the corner of the lug with a Arkansas stone on last rifle clean up. it was a very small blend but the thought was if left there they will grow. after this range session that receiver locking lug corner looks the same with no progression of chipping. i did notice on this cleaning that the front face of the carrier just ahead of the charging handle is showing wear from striking the receiver or the rear sight block. also found on is that the carrier and bolt will close with a few pounds of pressure on a no-go-gauge. the rifle is at apx 550 to 600 rounds red army ammo 124gr used this range day.
another range day with 100 rds thru the rifle. all looks ok, the only slight wear progression i noticed was at the top bolt lug where the bolt engages the carrier. the back top corner of the bolt shows slightly more wear or peening. no hiccups at the range, shot out to 600 yds on 12x20 steel. the rifle has more consistency in the 100yd to 300yd target distance. ammo this trip was red army 122gr.
another 100 rds thru the c39v2. no issues noted at the range ran red army 124gr fmjbt. on cleaning no further wear progression noted. shot 100yd, 300yd, and 600yd during range session. the 100 and 300yd were consistent the 600yd was more miss than hit, but it was the last rifle shot for the day and fatigue and patience was a factor.
It's been several months now since you posted this video. Any update on the progression of wear? I got lucky and found an original Polish milled bolt that headspaced perfectly with my rifle that I have been using with very good results. No change in headspace and very even contact on both locking lugs after range trips has been observed (I mark up both lugs with a sharpie before shooting). I'm getting very consistent extraction with shells landing about 25 feet away directly to the right. I'm curious if the space you originally measured on the "no go" has decreased over time.
i have been posting updates in the comments section on this video. last update was 4 months ago. I have not been to the range since that update because I got into reloading for rifle 6.5cdmr. I have found out getting all the equipment together to do it properly for load workups on accuracy is expensive. I have been picking up extra hours at work to help pay the expense which cuts into range time.I I also picked up a polish bolt and carrier from I think it was American arms. I was not as lucky as you because what I have will need to be fitted. I am still running the original century bolt and carrier and yes things have loosened up. the bolt will now close on a no-go gauge but not on a field gauge. I think I am at about 800-900 rds thru the rifle. it runs fine but when it closes on the field gauge I will fit the polish bolt and carrier.most of my efforts recently have been with the 6.5 reloading. I have about 300 rnds of once shot hornady brass that I have been preparing to actually make a live round for accuracy and load work up. I have not made a live round yet but I am getting close to reloading my first batch to run a ladder test on charge weights. once I have a optimum charge figured out I will move on too bullet seating depth. then tweak the charge weight again.the ak is just plain fun, the 6.5 adds a challenge to punch the same hole with every shot, takes a bit more patience. but ringing a 7 inch plate at 600 yds consistently has its own rush.
@@whooper3336 Thanks for the reply. Its dissapointing to hear that it has opened up to the point of failing the no-go so quickly. I've been seriously debating just selling mine. Mine still won't close on the no-go, but the pressure I previously needed to close the go is completely gone. Gravity is now more than enough to close it.
whooper333 I really appreciate this video there has been a lot of informative information and your comments. I have a Raz 47. I’ve put a little more than 3500 rounds through it with absolutely no change with my go and no go’s. I found with the RAS47 The rails weren’t perfectly aligned with the battery ramps, So I very carefully chamfer the edges and I’ve had no problems. I did replace the bolt carrier with a lightning bolt carrier system from Colorado. The bolt seems to like that carrier a whole lot better. I like this rifle enough to want it to last a long time and I will be happy to replace any worn out parts rather than ditch the rifle. A lot of people may disagree however I’ve had one failure to feed and the entire time I owned it and that happened with in the first five magazines that were fed through. Once again thank you. I found more useful information in There’s a comment section then most of the others. Please keep everyone informed. Thank you.
Golly, find one rifle company that has 0 issues with their product. These reviews are being done by amateurs who think theyre the best gun smith in their part of the world.
thank you for your posting, it is important to get the best information out as possible. intelligent discussion will lead to manufacturer and consumer awareness.
I appreciate you putting these videos out. I've been watching since your video regarding the C39V2's headspace issues. I have a brand new one and I'm considering replacing the bolt and carrier.
I had the same thought about replacing the bolt and carrier. because the rifle was brand new and not fired by me, I decided to contacted century customer service by email. I was told to try a saami go gauge with stripped bolt. when I notified them that the action would not close on saami go with stripped bolt I was told to send it back. the last thing I expected was to receive the rifle back from century and the action was still unable to close on a saami go gauge.texas gun smith did a video on the century c39 replacing the bolt and carrier with a polish set purchased from apex gun parts. I checked and they do not have any more in stock. at that point I decided to fit the bolt myself and monitor the locking lugs as well as the distance between the carrier and bolt where it stops on the nogo gauge. this should give me a heads up about wear to the chamber/ bolt and alert me to any problems.after working on both the arsenal and century side by side I do believe that the century has a slightly harder bolt based on speed of cut during lapping with 600 grit wet or dry paper. coincidentally I stopped by my local gun shop and out on a table was a American made ak by IO. it was out because the bolt was broken. the gun shop owner told me he tried to order a bolt for it but they were out of stock. when I looked at the broken bolt at its broken edges the material of this IO bolt looked very hard. so materials and hardness of these parts are key to good function/operation. mel64 has a video where he uses a hardness tester on all sorts of parts going into a ak build. I would like to see where the arsenal and century stack up in regard to part hardness on the key items. I am left with a thought I seen stated by jim fuller of rifle dynamics, he said the AK is such a good rifle design, that it could be built very badly and still operate. he laughs when he says it but the funny part is he is not joking.
thanks for the kind words. please read some of the comments viewers are posting on this video. there are some members posting comments on this subject that have a vast amount of knowledge and experience that well surpass me, their postings add to this video. you can also find good information on ak files.
Thanks for the update, please let us know what you did get answer from Century Arms if you decided to ask them what did they change or made to your C39V2. As per your advice I will order SAAMI Go/NoGo gauges to test mine before fire first round. Will continue monitoring you videos; thanks a lot for them!!!
I recently replaced the bolt on mine with a new WBP one and had a rather interesting time doing so. Like your rifle, mine would not close on the "go" gauge with the original bolt. After adjusting the new bolt, that one will close. I noticed significant bolt face depth difference between both bolts, with the WBP being deeper.
Put the file and go-gauge down and step away from the rifle. It’s apparent you have a lot to learn when it comes to AK’s especially combloc variants. If that C39 bolt didn’t close on a go gauge before sending it back and it now closes tells me Century filed on it. That’s a big no no. Headspace is set by pressing the barrel. When I set headspace on a new AK it shouldn’t close on a go because I set it tight as it will loosen up after a few hundred rounds break in. Please stop filing and cutting the bolt thinking your a gun smith your gonna get yourself hurt. Geez
perhaps you can help with your extensive knowledge. can you explain why it is called a "GO Gauge". what its purpose is and why they are made. i am sure readers on this topic can benefit from your reply.******************************* also why do you suppose century arms customer service provided a warranty return authorization upon learning the rifle bolt would not close on a SAAMI GO GAUGE with the bolt stripped.
Whooper>>> To be correct , if the rifle is in spec , it will not fail the go gauge , or the no go gauge . It indicates a out of spec rifle . With the go gauge , as long as a AK functions well ( chambers all cartridges ) easily , nothing to worry too much about .In fact , sometimes this cures itself in time (wear on lugs and bolt face ) . Most times just shooting cures it . Failing the no go gauge is more worrisome as it might indicate a progressing problem--not good ! . That problem may lead to failing the Field gauge --which at that point , the rifle could become dangerous . The go gauge means the minimum spec chamber size . The no-go means the maximum spec chamber size ( which should get ones attention) . Field gauge means if the firearm closes on it ? it may be dangerous . I have heard of filing bolts before but I would avoid that . On the AK , setting headspace is properly done by resetting the barrel , a fair amount of work . Your rifle if functioning fine should have not been a problem , just out of spec ( on the safe side ) . I have seen AK's that are way out of spec , but they were kit (garage) builds , and IO.inc I would recommend buying gauges in these cases . Some recommend checking the RAS-47 CV -39 as use increases . I can't comment on that because I have no personal experience with them, just what I read and hear . I am not a expert or a gunsmith , just fool around with AK's . If I am wrong , would appreciate knowing .
thanks for the post this is all good info, we should add this discussion to ak files. my intention is to provide the most accurate info in posting.my concern for the minimum chamber size on the C39V2 is based in the results that AKOU and MAC are seeing with respect to locking lugs on both the bolt and the receiver. the chipping away of the receiver right locking lug was of most concern in the examples the two of them have shown. on my bolt i saw deep cuts on the right bolt lug after its return from warranty repair century arms. these radial cuts or indentations in the bolt lug indicated some form of interference. there was also a raised burr on the right receiver locking lug. firing over time may have loosened things up but irreversible damage to the receiver may have occurred in this exercise.i also believe that if the right bolt lug is carrying all the load with respect to lock up, persion blue fitting of the bolt to receiver would be in order to equalize the load to both locking lugs. this would be accomplished by stoning bolt lugs until both locking lugs show equal contact with receiver.then chambering if found out of spec would need to be corrected by barrel placement. as i noted in the video the century fluff and buff is ahead of the arsenal, but the arsenal does close on a GO Gauge where the century does not. so function has to go to arsenal.i am not advocating one over the other, just trying to show what to expect and what century did to remedy.
Whooper > Actually , you are right in this case , I should have read a little ( or a lot ) more closely . The damage you had did indicate a big problem . I was only referring to slightly tight chambers( go gauge ) with no damage and perfect function. I should say nothing at all since I am not a qualified gunsmith. And , you are correct on Arsenal/Fime rifles , they are put together correctly with quality materials . At least thats my experience , I own a couple of them .
Sorry if I came off harsh on my last reply, however I see all the time individuals applying hokey gun smithing operations to rifles that are fine as they are. When you mentioned lapping and filing the bolt, filing relief cuts and adjusting head space it raises a big red flag. As you may know Century is NOT known for their ability to make a quality AK, especially with the amount of corner cutting they do to make them affordable to American shooters that buy them, shoot every once in a while then put back in the safe. Glad to hear to are aware of AKOU. Rob does a great job of pointing out the issues associated with US made AK’s (IO, Century, etc). If fit and finish is what you are after OK a century rifle might be what you need. Just don’t shoot it much. I agree with everything that James Janssen mentioned and wouldn’t be concerned if the rifle doesn’t pass a Go-Gauge since they look practically new anyways. They should loosen up after break in period. When installing a new barrel it’s advisable to use live rounds from a few different manufacturers and materials (brass, steel) as they will vary a bit. I set them so it’s snug on the tightest live round and bolt will not begin to turn on a No-Go gauge. This has worked for me and others to provide the best headspace. Also Arsenal does not use MIM for their major parts. Some pieces are cast like their post early 70’s Russian counterparts (Barrel components and a few other) but the bolt, carrier, trunnion, Barrel, (and receiver on the SAM series) are hammer forged parts. Not that I have an issue with cast parts as long as the metallurgy is correct. I built a WBP cast parts kit that kicks ass. 3k Rds so far and still looks great. Anyways please refrain from changing anything on that Arsenal. It’s a tool not a trophy. Just keep shooting it.
Is there any instruction video of the process of fitting and filing an AK-47 bolt like the needed to complete in order to make a new bolt fit on a C39V2? Please post it. Thanks.
try a youtube search for the topic if nothing found ak files has a lot of information and knowledgeable people that can help with the process. I purchased a polish bolt from Arms of America but I am keeping it off to the side until I see some serious degradation in the factory bolt on the C39V2 century. in my case the polish bolt is not drop in, it has to be fitted, but fitting will be different a couple of thousand rounds down the road.
whooper333 its exactly what I want to do. Will buy a spare until original shows sings os security issues. Did search on UA-cam but nothing on this. Thanks again!
whooper333, today I received the bolt previously suggested bought from Arms of America, when presented it did not close as per received, not even without any gauges mounted. Looks like filling is needed but I did not have any gunsmith nearby who can make the job or instruct me where to take out surface from. If anyone know from any instructional video that shows how to please let me know. Thanks again!
got out to the range and put another 100 rounds thru the c39v2. no issues noted while firing wolf 123gr hp and red army 122gr fmj ammo. on cleaning the rifle, all looked ok. i checked the space between the carrier and receiver with a field gauge in the chamber held in the bolt and the distance between the carrier and receiver with medium light but firm pressure pushing forward on the carrier is .406 inch. did not bore scope the gun, will wait about 500 round for that. had the chrono there, muzzle velocity for the wolf showed a average of 2409f/s, extreme spread 69, standard deviation 15. the red army showed avg 2420f/s, ext spd 118, sd31. these shot strings were taken on 30 round count each, so it looks like this outing the red army can be a little faster but not as consistent as the wolf.
it is starting to warm again in the midwest so got out to the range this week and got another 100 rnds thru the c39v2. no issues to report during firing, ran two types of ammo red army and wolf. had a crono there because i was doing load work up for a 6.5 cm. the crono showed that the wolf poly performance 124gr hp was more consistent and a little faster than the red army 124gr fmj. ************************************************************************************************************************* got home and upon cleaning the c39v2 the receiver shows no progression in wear, and looked exactly as it did on last cleaning. however the bolt top lug had a very very slight metal roll to the top forward edge. the carrier also showed the same very very slight roll of the metal in the mating spot. i took a india stone and cleaned the roll off in both locations. also the carrier duck tail showed the same roll effect and got the same treatment. i must be getting around a 1000 rnds thru it. none of it a torture test just a hundred or so rounds a outing.*************************************************************************************** after cleaning i put a ats video borescope down the barrel using the 110 degree mirror. bore looks normal, throat and free bore look ok. no signs of crazing on the metal surface. so so far so good as they say, its funny as i type that i think of the guy that just did the swan dive off the skyscraper, as he passed the 30th floor he was heard saying ........
I have been a smith for over 45 years. That pressure on the bolt when it closes accelerates locking lug wear on the bolt head and receiver. What you need is for the bolt to close and the cartridge or go gauge too be in the chamber and too fit with no pressure from the bolt. You can anecdotally have up to .006" slack/headspace on a 7.62 x 39, but never tight, like with pressure on the bold when you close the action on the round/gauge. The action isn't designed to lockup with a round in the chamber contacting the bullet where the bullet slows down the forward moving bolt because the fit is too tight. What you have is less than minimum head space and in an AK that can lead to the round firing when the chamber isn't completely locked. That can be a very dangerous condition especially if the chamber gets dirty from powder or dirt. Good luck with it.
The century has a tighter chamber so even as it starts to wear when it finally wears in it will then be in spec and not out of spec.. century has to do this since they don't have any hammer forged parts. Where is the video of you shooting this, since the machining is so nice on the c39 it might be more accurate than the arsenal just not as strong.
yes the data gathered here could be a one of. there are many other examples posted on this website to gather more info on these rifles. displaying in this post what is observed on these examples.
The bolt carrier in an Arsenal is NOT cast. Step away from the rifle, you don't know as much as you think. Of course your hammer has scratches, the carrier rides over it. You state so much garbage in this video, I couldn't possibly keep up. If you think that Century fired 90 rounds, LMAO. Buy your fit and finish, you're not a shooter anyway. Just so you know, Rifle Dynamics cheapest rifle is $2600 and it is painted as well. Arsenal is paint over parkerized metal, rookie.
thanks for your insight, comments, and concerns. if you could post any metallurgy information on either or both rifles that would be appreciated and other viewers and readers could gain from your experience.
Whooper333 Today I received the Go/NoGo Gauge from Brownells. Those are the Clymer 7.62X39 set just mentioned earlier. My C39V2 it’s like yours in the first video, is a complete new never fired rifle bought on December with serial number from 2017. I decided not to fire until complete all things I like to add it; originally was the wooden version and it was beautiful that way, but I purchased with intentions to change it to a Magpul Shukov variant of my choice. Also I have installed the Ultimak vented rail and some other things... The case on this is that I measured today with SAAMI Clymer Go gauge and closed perfectly, then with the NoGo gauge did not close for a little more than 1/2 inch, and the field gauge, a Manson CIP, also did not close for near 5/8 inch. For me it looks like it was mounted as it should but I will still take measures as I use it. Your videos where great source of information and I like to thank you!
good to know that your rifle is as it should be. they are a gas to shoot and you can find ammo that is reasonably priced when you buy by the case, which doubles the fun.
every time the rifle cycles the carrier comes back and cocks the hammer by pushing it back until it is caught by the hooks on the trigger. examples on the century by akou have been showing deformation on the carrier duck tail, time will tell on less aggressive firing. i got the century c39v2 to the range today put another 100 rounds thru it, it is shooting about a 4 to 5 moa group at 100 yds. it was very windy and that could be part of that. i have to say i shot a precision rifle after the c39 with the winds just as bad and was able to get sub moa groups with it. it was chambered in 6.5 creedmoor. the 6.5 is a great cratridge, easy to shoot, accurate, but it cost 3 to 4 times the 7.62x39.
~I own a SAM7-SF and it's a great rifle and its fit is great, but its finish SUCKS. I wiped my brand new rifle down with some Hoppe's Cleaner and it easily removed the paint. THAT SUCKED BIG TIME. ~Fortunately it is parkerized underneath the paint and the rifle can easily be repainted. ~I also own the Century Arms VSKA and its fit and finish is good. The two trunnions and the bolt carrier are made of S7 Tool Steel. I hope this has fixed their soft steel problem. I hope. ~Arsenal Firearms will use Russian specs, while the Century Arms will use SAAMI Specs. ~I like both Rifles a lot and right now I have no concerns with either of them. They both work as they should work and they both shoot "Combat Accurate" at 100 meters. I'm happy. ~I wish Century Arms all the Good Luck with their making of their all US Made Firearms. We Americans can do it!
Ray very informative post backed up by zero facts or conclusions. I have a vepr and. Arsenal, both are garbage and a waste of money. Do you believe me?
as informative as your rebuttal was- It is common information that pure century products are junk unless imported. There are 100's of individual cases logged online as well as torture tests which this thing failed. Dont be mad because you cant afford a nice rifle.
mason1011 I do know that there are some owners of century products that have problems. I would not agree with you that there are "hundreds" posted. What is also true is that there are a number of negative posts on almost any AK47 and that includes Arsenal. Another truth is that there are several posts of owners who are happy with their purchase of the Century RAS47 and C39v2. What is untrue is some of the negative posts are made by people who have never owned these guns and agree with everything they hear from people who do these reviews.
I just got the SAM7SF to replace my C39 v1 which is practically the same as the v2 in terms of the metal used and machining done. Comparing the two, SAM7SF is way smoother when racking the bolt. Both the C39 and SAM7SF had the muzzle break wiggle slightly and the top hand guard moved slightly too. The bolt on the C39 would get stuck in place just racking the bolt slowly while the SAM7SF does not. Having shot this Arsenal a little bit i can tell the recoil was more manageable than the C39 since the stock is directly inline with the receiver, allowing the recoil to go straight back instead of down and back. I did notice a little questionable wear on the receiver of the C39 being that some wear marks looked like it was creating a burr, which by the way is the difference between the SAM7SF and the C39 (the C39 is cast while the SAM7SF is hot hammer forged). In all reality they are both good guns and wont disappoint in terms of functionality and just going to have some fun. The C39 will last a long time but do note it is a softer metal, so heavy use will show aging fairly quickly. In terms of longevity, the SAM7SF will last eons longer than the C39 due to the fact the bolt, bolt carrier, trigger, barrel and receiver are all hammer forged along with a heavy chrome lined barrel that will last longer than you before needing changed. It really just comes down to what you are willing to spend. You get what you pay for.
The bolt on the SAM7 IS NOT cast . There is no use of "cast iron " on it either . From Arsenal below >>>>>>>
"Bulgarian hot-die hammer forged receiver, bolt, bolt carrier, and double-hook trigger
Cold hammer-forged 16.3 barrel from Arsenals Bulgarian factory, built on Steyr manufacturing technology
Hard-chrome plated bore and chamber" .
thanks for the posting and information. i did notice when i put the relief in on the carrier it did feel soft with respect to speed of material removal, sparks, and speed of cut. that said forging does not necessary mean hard material, forged bolts come in a range of standard hardware to grade9. while all being forged in a screw machine then thread rolled, they range in varying degree of tensile and hardness.
had the c39v2 to the range today, ran another 120 rds thru it no issues. on the 100yd range it runs around 2 to 3 moa with red army ammo. after the previous range session, during cleaning the only irregularity i noted was very minor peaning on the top bolt lug. the carrier and receiver look fine. have not cleaned it after this trip yet to see if any thing is progressing. long range day with multiple firearms. when i get thru the cleaning i will post if anything looks abnormal. just getting started with it, count is around 350 to 400.
another range day with 100 rds on c39v2. i have a recoil buffer installed to see if it makes any difference in reliability, it does not. rifle ran the 100 rnds with no issues, red army ammo. the recoil buffer does prevent the carrier hold open function of the safety lever. after cleaning the rifle i have noted the receiver right locking lug has 2 small chip outs on its fwd corner where the bolt engages and locks up. the chip outs are smaller than pin head but they are there. they resemble what AKOU has shown on his testing of the c39v2. no defects noted on left receiver locking lug. the chipping has stared at about the 450-500 round count on this rifle. will continue to shoot and see what happens. i will consider breaking the corner of the right locking lug to see if the chip outs will blend out. continued shooting with the defect present may cause the defect to grow. this is along the lines of stop drilling a crack. starting to think c39v2 looks good but the metallurgy is not where it should be.
another 100 rounds, no issues at the range. shot a 10 inch plate at 300 yds. the right receiver locking lug chip outs that occurred the last range session were blended on the corner of the lug with a Arkansas stone on last rifle clean up. it was a very small blend but the thought was if left there they will grow. after this range session that receiver locking lug corner looks the same with no progression of chipping. i did notice on this cleaning that the front face of the carrier just ahead of the charging handle is showing wear from striking the receiver or the rear sight block. also found on is that the carrier and bolt will close with a few pounds of pressure on a no-go-gauge. the rifle is at apx 550 to 600 rounds red army ammo 124gr used this range day.
another range day with 100 rds thru the rifle. all looks ok, the only slight wear progression i noticed was at the top bolt lug where the bolt engages the carrier. the back top corner of the bolt shows slightly more wear or peening. no hiccups at the range, shot out to 600 yds on 12x20 steel. the rifle has more consistency in the 100yd to 300yd target distance. ammo this trip was red army 122gr.
another 100 rds thru the c39v2. no issues noted at the range ran red army 124gr fmjbt. on cleaning no further wear progression noted. shot 100yd, 300yd, and 600yd during range session. the 100 and 300yd were consistent the 600yd was more miss than hit, but it was the last rifle shot for the day and fatigue and patience was a factor.
It's been several months now since you posted this video. Any update on the progression of wear? I got lucky and found an original Polish milled bolt that headspaced perfectly with my rifle that I have been using with very good results. No change in headspace and very even contact on both locking lugs after range trips has been observed (I mark up both lugs with a sharpie before shooting). I'm getting very consistent extraction with shells landing about 25 feet away directly to the right. I'm curious if the space you originally measured on the "no go" has decreased over time.
i have been posting updates in the comments section on this video. last update was 4 months ago. I have not been to the range since that update because I got into reloading for rifle 6.5cdmr. I have found out getting all the equipment together to do it properly for load workups on accuracy is expensive. I have been picking up extra hours at work to help pay the expense which cuts into range time.I I also picked up a polish bolt and carrier from I think it was American arms. I was not as lucky as you because what I have will need to be fitted. I am still running the original century bolt and carrier and yes things have loosened up. the bolt will now close on a no-go gauge but not on a field gauge. I think I am at about 800-900 rds thru the rifle. it runs fine but when it closes on the field gauge I will fit the polish bolt and carrier.most of my efforts recently have been with the 6.5 reloading. I have about 300 rnds of once shot hornady brass that I have been preparing to actually make a live round for accuracy and load work up. I have not made a live round yet but I am getting close to reloading my first batch to run a ladder test on charge weights. once I have a optimum charge figured out I will move on too bullet seating depth. then tweak the charge weight again.the ak is just plain fun, the 6.5 adds a challenge to punch the same hole with every shot, takes a bit more patience. but ringing a 7 inch plate at 600 yds consistently has its own rush.
@@whooper3336 Thanks for the reply. Its dissapointing to hear that it has opened up to the point of failing the no-go so quickly. I've been seriously debating just selling mine. Mine still won't close on the no-go, but the pressure I previously needed to close the go is completely gone. Gravity is now more than enough to close it.
whooper333 I really appreciate this video there has been a lot of informative information and your comments. I have a Raz 47. I’ve put a little more than 3500 rounds through it with absolutely no change with my go and no go’s. I found with the RAS47 The rails weren’t perfectly aligned with the battery ramps, So I very carefully chamfer the edges and I’ve had no problems. I did replace the bolt carrier with a lightning bolt carrier system from Colorado. The bolt seems to like that carrier a whole lot better. I like this rifle enough to want it to last a long time and I will be happy to replace any worn out parts rather than ditch the rifle. A lot of people may disagree however I’ve had one failure to feed and the entire time I owned it and that happened with in the first five magazines that were fed through. Once again thank you. I found more useful information in There’s a comment section then most of the others. Please keep everyone informed. Thank you.
another good source for info is at akfiles. there are some people there that cut their teeth on ak,s and are willing to share lessons learned.
Golly, find one rifle company that has 0 issues with their product. These reviews are being done by amateurs who think theyre the best gun smith in their part of the world.
thank you for your posting, it is important to get the best information out as possible. intelligent discussion will lead to manufacturer and consumer awareness.
I prefer reviews from a bunch of different people than one or two...
thanks for the vid
You’re welcome
I appreciate you putting these videos out. I've been watching since your video regarding the C39V2's headspace issues. I have a brand new one and I'm considering replacing the bolt and carrier.
I had the same thought about replacing the bolt and carrier. because the rifle was brand new and not fired by me, I decided to contacted century customer service by email. I was told to try a saami go gauge with stripped bolt. when I notified them that the action would not close on saami go with stripped bolt I was told to send it back. the last thing I expected was to receive the rifle back from century and the action was still unable to close on a saami go gauge.texas gun smith did a video on the century c39 replacing the bolt and carrier with a polish set purchased from apex gun parts. I checked and they do not have any more in stock. at that point I decided to fit the bolt myself and monitor the locking lugs as well as the distance between the carrier and bolt where it stops on the nogo gauge. this should give me a heads up about wear to the chamber/ bolt and alert me to any problems.after working on both the arsenal and century side by side I do believe that the century has a slightly harder bolt based on speed of cut during lapping with 600 grit wet or dry paper. coincidentally I stopped by my local gun shop and out on a table was a American made ak by IO. it was out because the bolt was broken. the gun shop owner told me he tried to order a bolt for it but they were out of stock. when I looked at the broken bolt at its broken edges the material of this IO bolt looked very hard. so materials and hardness of these parts are key to good function/operation. mel64 has a video where he uses a hardness tester on all sorts of parts going into a ak build. I would like to see where the arsenal and century stack up in regard to part hardness on the key items. I am left with a thought I seen stated by jim fuller of rifle dynamics, he said the AK is such a good rifle design, that it could be built very badly and still operate. he laughs when he says it but the funny part is he is not joking.
So the finish is better on the c39 but the fit is correct on the Sam7
This is an awesome and highly informative video. Great job!
thanks for the kind words. please read some of the comments viewers are posting on this video. there are some members posting comments on this subject that have a vast amount of knowledge and experience that well surpass me, their postings add to this video. you can also find good information on ak files.
Thanks for the update, please let us know what you did get answer from Century Arms if you decided to ask them what did they change or made to your C39V2. As per your advice I will order SAAMI Go/NoGo gauges to test mine before fire first round. Will continue monitoring you videos; thanks a lot for them!!!
I recently replaced the bolt on mine with a new WBP one and had a rather interesting time doing so. Like your rifle, mine would not close on the "go" gauge with the original bolt. After adjusting the new bolt, that one will close. I noticed significant bolt face depth difference between both bolts, with the WBP being deeper.
thanks for the post, this is good information to get out there on this rifle and possible replacement parts.
Put the file and go-gauge down and step away from the rifle. It’s apparent you have a lot to learn when it comes to AK’s especially combloc variants.
If that C39 bolt didn’t close on a go gauge before sending it back and it now closes tells me Century filed on it. That’s a big no no. Headspace is set by pressing the barrel. When I set headspace on a new AK it shouldn’t close on a go because I set it tight as it will loosen up after a few hundred rounds break in. Please stop filing and cutting the bolt thinking your a gun smith your gonna get yourself hurt. Geez
perhaps you can help with your extensive knowledge. can you explain why it is called a "GO Gauge". what its purpose is and why they are made. i am sure readers on this topic can benefit from your reply.*******************************
also why do you suppose century arms customer service provided a warranty return authorization upon learning the rifle bolt would not close on a SAAMI GO GAUGE with the bolt stripped.
Whooper>>> To be correct , if the rifle is in spec , it will not fail the go gauge , or the no go gauge . It indicates a out of spec rifle . With the go gauge , as long as a AK functions well ( chambers all cartridges ) easily , nothing to worry too much about .In fact , sometimes this cures itself in time (wear on lugs and bolt face ) .
Most times just shooting cures it . Failing the no go gauge is more worrisome as it might indicate a progressing problem--not good ! . That problem may lead to failing the Field gauge --which at that point , the rifle could become dangerous .
The go gauge means the minimum spec chamber size . The no-go means the maximum spec chamber size ( which should get ones attention) . Field gauge means if the firearm closes on it ? it may be dangerous .
I have heard of filing bolts before but I would avoid that . On the AK , setting headspace is properly done by resetting the barrel , a fair amount of work .
Your rifle if functioning fine should have not been a problem , just out of spec ( on the safe side ) .
I have seen AK's that are way out of spec , but they were kit (garage) builds , and IO.inc
I would recommend buying gauges in these cases . Some recommend checking the RAS-47 CV -39 as use increases . I can't comment on that because I have no personal experience with them, just what I read and hear .
I am not a expert or a gunsmith , just fool around with AK's . If I am wrong , would appreciate knowing .
thanks for the post this is all good info, we should add this discussion to ak files. my intention is to provide the most accurate info in posting.my concern for the minimum chamber size on the C39V2 is based in the results that AKOU and MAC are seeing with respect to locking lugs on both the bolt and the receiver. the chipping away of the receiver right locking lug was of most concern in the examples the two of them have shown. on my bolt i saw deep cuts on the right bolt lug after its return from warranty repair century arms. these radial cuts or indentations in the bolt lug indicated some form of interference. there was also a raised burr on the right receiver locking lug. firing over time may have loosened things up but irreversible damage to the receiver may have occurred in this exercise.i also believe that if the right bolt lug is carrying all the load with respect to lock up, persion blue fitting of the bolt to receiver would be in order to equalize the load to both locking lugs. this would be accomplished by stoning bolt lugs until both locking lugs show equal contact with receiver.then chambering if found out of spec would need to be corrected by barrel placement. as i noted in the video the century fluff and buff is ahead of the arsenal, but the arsenal does close on a GO Gauge where the century does not. so function has to go to arsenal.i am not advocating one over the other, just trying to show what to expect and what century did to remedy.
Whooper > Actually , you are right in this case , I should have read a little ( or a lot ) more closely . The damage you had did indicate a big problem . I was only referring to slightly tight chambers( go gauge ) with no damage and perfect function. I should say nothing at all since I am not a qualified gunsmith.
And , you are correct on Arsenal/Fime rifles , they are put together correctly with quality materials . At least thats my experience , I own a couple of them .
Sorry if I came off harsh on my last reply, however I see all the time individuals applying hokey gun smithing operations to rifles that are fine as they are. When you mentioned lapping and filing the bolt, filing relief cuts and adjusting head space it raises a big red flag. As you may know Century is NOT known for their ability to make a quality AK, especially with the amount of corner cutting they do to make them affordable to American shooters that buy them, shoot every once in a while then put back in the safe. Glad to hear to are aware of AKOU. Rob does a great job of pointing out the issues associated with US made AK’s (IO, Century, etc). If fit and finish is what you are after OK a century rifle might be what you need. Just don’t shoot it much. I agree with everything that James Janssen mentioned and wouldn’t be concerned if the rifle doesn’t pass a Go-Gauge since they look practically new anyways. They should loosen up after break in period. When installing a new barrel it’s advisable to use live rounds from a few different manufacturers and materials (brass, steel) as they will vary a bit. I set them so it’s snug on the tightest live round and bolt will not begin to turn on a No-Go gauge. This has worked for me and others to provide the best headspace.
Also Arsenal does not use MIM for their major parts. Some pieces are cast like their post early 70’s Russian counterparts (Barrel components and a few other) but the bolt, carrier, trunnion, Barrel, (and receiver on the SAM series) are hammer forged parts. Not that I have an issue with cast parts as long as the metallurgy is correct. I built a WBP cast parts kit that kicks ass. 3k Rds so far and still looks great. Anyways please refrain from changing anything on that Arsenal. It’s a tool not a trophy. Just keep shooting it.
Is there any instruction video of the process of fitting and filing an AK-47 bolt like the needed to complete in order to make a new bolt fit on a C39V2? Please post it. Thanks.
try a youtube search for the topic if nothing found ak files has a lot of information and knowledgeable people that can help with the process. I purchased a polish bolt from Arms of America but I am keeping it off to the side until I see some serious degradation in the factory bolt on the C39V2 century. in my case the polish bolt is not drop in, it has to be fitted, but fitting will be different a couple of thousand rounds down the road.
whooper333 its exactly what I want to do. Will buy a spare until original shows sings os security issues. Did search on UA-cam but nothing on this. Thanks again!
whooper333, today I received the bolt previously suggested bought from Arms of America, when presented it did not close as per received, not even without any gauges mounted. Looks like filling is needed but I did not have any gunsmith nearby who can make the job or instruct me where to take out surface from. If anyone know from any instructional video that shows how to please let me know. Thanks again!
got out to the range and put another 100 rounds thru the c39v2. no issues noted while firing wolf 123gr hp and red army 122gr fmj ammo. on cleaning the rifle, all looked ok. i checked the space between the carrier and receiver with a field gauge in the chamber held in the bolt and the distance between the carrier and receiver with medium light but firm pressure pushing forward on the carrier is .406 inch. did not bore scope the gun, will wait about 500 round for that. had the chrono there, muzzle velocity for the wolf showed a average of 2409f/s, extreme spread 69, standard deviation 15. the red army showed avg 2420f/s, ext spd 118, sd31. these shot strings were taken on 30 round count each, so it looks like this outing the red army can be a little faster but not as consistent as the wolf.
it is starting to warm again in the midwest so got out to the range this week and got another 100 rnds thru the c39v2. no issues to report during firing, ran two types of ammo red army and wolf. had a crono there because i was doing load work up for a 6.5 cm. the crono showed that the wolf poly performance 124gr hp was more consistent and a little faster than the red army 124gr fmj. *************************************************************************************************************************
got home and upon cleaning the c39v2 the receiver shows no progression in wear, and looked exactly as it did on last cleaning. however the bolt top lug had a very very slight metal roll to the top forward edge. the carrier also showed the same very very slight roll of the metal in the mating spot. i took a india stone and cleaned the roll off in both locations. also the carrier duck tail showed the same roll effect and got the same treatment. i must be getting around a 1000 rnds thru it. none of it a torture test just a hundred or so rounds a outing.***************************************************************************************
after cleaning i put a ats video borescope down the barrel using the 110 degree mirror. bore looks normal, throat and free bore look ok. no signs of crazing on the metal surface. so so far so good as they say, its funny as i type that i think of the guy that just did the swan dive off the skyscraper, as he passed the 30th floor he was heard saying ........
Just shoot the thing, don't be taking material off the bolt you can change the head space and they don't use cast iron on a rifle
I have been a smith for over 45 years. That pressure on the bolt when it closes accelerates locking lug wear on the bolt head and receiver. What you need is for the bolt to close and the cartridge or go gauge too be in the chamber and too fit with no pressure from the bolt. You can anecdotally have up to .006" slack/headspace on a 7.62 x 39, but never tight, like with pressure on the bold when you close the action on the round/gauge. The action isn't designed to lockup with a round in the chamber contacting the bullet where the bullet slows down the forward moving bolt because the fit is too tight. What you have is less than minimum head space and in an AK that can lead to the round firing when the chamber isn't completely locked. That can be a very dangerous condition especially if the chamber gets dirty from powder or dirt. Good luck with it.
Great post with good information.
The century has a tighter chamber so even as it starts to wear when it finally wears in it will then be in spec and not out of spec.. century has to do this since they don't have any hammer forged parts. Where is the video of you shooting this, since the machining is so nice on the c39 it might be more accurate than the arsenal just not as strong.
Both those rifles are mass produced and are a sample of only one.
yes the data gathered here could be a one of. there are many other examples posted on this website to gather more info on these rifles. displaying in this post what is observed on these examples.
Great videos
The bolt carrier in an Arsenal is NOT cast. Step away from the rifle, you don't know as much as you think. Of course your hammer has scratches, the carrier rides over it. You state so much garbage in this video, I couldn't possibly keep up.
If you think that Century fired 90 rounds, LMAO.
Buy your fit and finish, you're not a shooter anyway.
Just so you know, Rifle Dynamics cheapest rifle is $2600 and it is painted as well. Arsenal is paint over parkerized metal, rookie.
thanks for your insight, comments, and concerns. if you could post any metallurgy information on either or both rifles that would be appreciated and other viewers and readers could gain from your experience.
it’s definitely cast. that arsenal is cast
Whooper333 Today I received the Go/NoGo Gauge from Brownells. Those are the Clymer 7.62X39 set just mentioned earlier. My C39V2 it’s like yours in the first video, is a complete new never fired rifle bought on December with serial number from 2017. I decided not to fire until complete all things I like to add it; originally was the wooden version and it was beautiful that way, but I purchased with intentions to change it to a Magpul Shukov variant of my choice. Also I have installed the Ultimak vented rail and some other things... The case on this is that I measured today with SAAMI Clymer Go gauge and closed perfectly, then with the NoGo gauge did not close for a little more than 1/2 inch, and the field gauge, a Manson CIP, also did not close for near 5/8 inch. For me it looks like it was mounted as it should but I will still take measures as I use it. Your videos where great source of information and I like to thank you!
good to know that your rifle is as it should be. they are a gas to shoot and you can find ammo that is reasonably priced when you buy by the case, which doubles the fun.
Damn this guy is one tuff customer
You didn't have to do anything to the muzzle brake, etc. It was perfectly fine. Same with the upper handguard. They are looser tolerant rifles.
yes, the lesser tolerance can be noticed.
This dude work at century arm lol
It's almost as if some hard ass piece of metal slammed into the hammer every time the gun was fired...... you should be concerned
every time the rifle cycles the carrier comes back and cocks the hammer by pushing it back until it is caught by the hooks on the trigger. examples on the century by akou have been showing deformation on the carrier duck tail, time will tell on less aggressive firing. i got the century c39v2 to the range today put another 100 rounds thru it, it is shooting about a 4 to 5 moa group at 100 yds. it was very windy and that could be part of that. i have to say i shot a precision rifle after the c39 with the winds just as bad and was able to get sub moa groups with it. it was chambered in 6.5 creedmoor. the 6.5 is a great cratridge, easy to shoot, accurate, but it cost 3 to 4 times the 7.62x39.
whooper333 i was being sarcastic.........
come on now, here i thought you were showing your iq level
Thumbs up on this video. Good Job.
Go and no go dont matter like the field gauge. A field gauge is what matters for safty. Your a bit of a nut case i think.
thank you for you intelligent observations and post. it is now noted that in your opinion no-go and go gages do not matter.
Holy Christ, who sold you a gun?
purchased at Holy Christ gun sales a holy subsidiary of god and son.
~I own a SAM7-SF and it's a great rifle and its fit is great, but its finish SUCKS. I wiped my brand new rifle down with some Hoppe's Cleaner and it easily removed the paint. THAT SUCKED BIG TIME.
~Fortunately it is parkerized underneath the paint and the rifle can easily be repainted.
~I also own the Century Arms VSKA and its fit and finish is good. The two trunnions and the bolt carrier are made of S7 Tool Steel. I hope this has fixed their soft steel problem. I hope.
~Arsenal Firearms will use Russian specs, while the Century Arms will use SAAMI Specs.
~I like both Rifles a lot and right now I have no concerns with either of them. They both work as they should work and they both shoot "Combat Accurate" at 100 meters. I'm happy.
~I wish Century Arms all the Good Luck with their making of their all US Made Firearms. We Americans can do it!
Must have not read the manual on the Arsenal for which cleaner to use
Best AK today is the Galil ACE. GAR1639.
The Vepr is supreme, build for WW3
Bullshit!
Dude the gun is freaking used you have no idea what the original owner did to the rifle! Your credibility is shot!
C39 v 2 junk waste of my money why even compare
Ray very informative post backed up by zero facts or conclusions.
I have a vepr and. Arsenal, both are garbage and a waste of money. Do you believe me?
C.L. Leigh I bought one less than 1000 rounds bolt damage c39s are junk
as informative as your rebuttal was- It is common information that pure century products are junk unless imported. There are 100's of individual cases logged online as well as torture tests which this thing failed. Dont be mad because you cant afford a nice rifle.
mason1011 I do know that there are some owners of century products that have problems. I would not agree with you that there are "hundreds" posted.
What is also true is that there are a number of negative posts on almost any AK47 and that includes Arsenal. Another truth is that there are several posts of owners who are happy with their purchase of the Century RAS47 and C39v2.
What is untrue is some of the negative posts are made by people who have never owned these guns and agree with everything they hear from people who do these reviews.
I just got the SAM7SF to replace my C39 v1 which is practically the same as the v2 in terms of the metal used and machining done. Comparing the two, SAM7SF is way smoother when racking the bolt. Both the C39 and SAM7SF had the muzzle break wiggle slightly and the top hand guard moved slightly too. The bolt on the C39 would get stuck in place just racking the bolt slowly while the SAM7SF does not. Having shot this Arsenal a little bit i can tell the recoil was more manageable than the C39 since the stock is directly inline with the receiver, allowing the recoil to go straight back instead of down and back. I did notice a little questionable wear on the receiver of the C39 being that some wear marks looked like it was creating a burr, which by the way is the difference between the SAM7SF and the C39 (the C39 is cast while the SAM7SF is hot hammer forged). In all reality they are both good guns and wont disappoint in terms of functionality and just going to have some fun. The C39 will last a long time but do note it is a softer metal, so heavy use will show aging fairly quickly. In terms of longevity, the SAM7SF will last eons longer than the C39 due to the fact the bolt, bolt carrier, trigger, barrel and receiver are all hammer forged along with a heavy chrome lined barrel that will last longer than you before needing changed. It really just comes down to what you are willing to spend. You get what you pay for.
I hate the paint job on the sam7, way too expensive to be this poorly made!! They go for 1850$ now!! Crazy!!
Yes you are correct, paint job looks like a rattle can special.
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C39 V2...Is garbage! Arsenal all day everyday.
Chad Magnuson That’s an absolutely biased statement. The C39 is far from garbage son.
Typical in-depth review from a 14 year old who probably doesn’t even own an AK.
It is far from garbage. It’s actually beyond garbage