27:10 Joe Smith was sealed to 34 women, but Warren Jeffs was sealed to 83, so Joseph is totally OK!!!! Joseph was sealed to 14 year old girls, but Warren was sealed to a 12 year old so Joseph is totally OK! My word, this kind of justification at all costs is pathetic
"you would just worry how a pregnancy would be handled"? No, I would just worry if she was old enough to consent?, Child abuse? Sex assault? A lack of proof does not prove the contrary. Why use that argument over and over? Also, why does a discussion on JS, need to compare him to a worse polygamist. It's a smoke screen to make him look better.
I appreciate that you’re trying to incorporate the unavoidable facts instead of denying them. But: a middle-aged man telling a teenage girl that if he doesn’t have sex with him, he will be killed by an Angel with a sword? That doesn’t sound like coercion to you? Just because he didn’t coerce everyone, that means he didn’t coerce anyone?
Please don't believe that. Brian is speaking evil of the Lord's annointed, the Prophet Joseph. Joseph was faithful to his wife, Emma, and there is ZERO evidence that anything Brian said Joseph did actually happened. He needs to be more responsible with his spreading of lies. One day he will be held accountable.
@ericreed4535 it is obvious that you haven t spent 5 minutes looking at the evidence, if you find the evidence "sibstsntial." Look at it thoroughly, and judge it without a biased lens. Facts don't lie. Instead, you have been intellectuelly dishonest, perhaps even a Lazy Learner and a Lax Disciple by taking Brian Hales at his word.
@@ericreed4535 Contemporary evidence or history is not substantial. It went missing. The many testimonies that Joseph was a polygamist were 20-30 years later. Even the judge in the temple lot case didn't believe the testimonies of those claiming Joseph was a polygamist. I believe Joseph's words and teachings in the Joseph Smith Papers, which is considered contemporary history.
@@jacbox3889And what do you make of Oliver Cowdery calling it a dirty, nasty and filthy affair? You're funny in your dismissal of many different accounts from many different witnesses and participants. The cognitive dissonance runs deep.
@@crystallovesion why was Abraham given another wife? Why was the house of Isreal (arguably the most important family in the whole Bible) born out of Polygamy? Maybe you are closing your eyes to all of the polygamy in the Bible and how it actually is sanctioned at times? 🙏 God bless you! :)
@@nickhoward3040 Abraham "took" another wife handmaiden, by trying to make the promise come to fruition by their "own hands" aka the arm of the flesh. They were trying to step ahead of God, versus trusting in God in his promises. They were impatient and trying to control the situation and it caused strife. In the garden God created Adam and Eve. Not Adam and 20 other wifes. The two became one flesh. The house of Israel also came from Isaac and Jacob.
@@nickhoward3040why was Joseph “restoring” Old Testament practices if Jesus ended that? Why didn’t he restore animal sacrifices too? How about the Sabbath on Friday? It seems very convenient that he picked and choose doctrines that benefitted him such as polygamy, tithing, temples etc
@@nickhoward3040 he was tricked into working years for a a wife he didn't want. He thought he was going to marry Rachel, the father in-law tricked him. He ONLY LOVED Rachel. Look at All the DRAMA IT CAUSED! GOD was cleaning up the mess not approving of it!
So wait, Joseph went and married a young girl at 14, the church recognizes this as fact.. and you’re telling me he didn’t tell Emma? 😂 the apologetics out of this guy and the wildly spinning nuance he tries so desperately to drive home is honestly laughable. Look at the facts and choose for yourself if you believe that Joseph smith can be the one god chooses to bring back his church. The church simply cannot stand up to scrutiny
When it comes to coercion, I am troubled by the Happiness Letter. From my reading it is coercive and predatory. Can you speak to the faithful perspective of how that letter is not Joseph using God and his position to get a young girl to be with him. Why did he do things asking for secrecy from Emma and to destroy his letters after reading.? This is a difficult topic to me.
Perhaps there isn't a credible "faithful" perspective? We are more informed as a society about coercive control and therefore better able to recognise it We do victims no favours when we give a get out clause for such behaviour to someone who had religious power.
@@debbieshrubb1222 Thank you for saying that. I agree. I often hear the argument that times were just different then. That may be true in many regards. However, the requests to destroy letters, keep things from Emma, meet in secret, etc., speak volumes to me. Moreover, there were women of that time who had the courage to speak out and confront power. Nancy Rigdon will forever be an example of someone who, even in that period, called out the immoral behaviors of the prophet.
Brian, I really wish you would be more honest about how poor the sources are on Fanny Alger. Many other historians agree that it is highly improbable that Emma would ever confide in Mclellan, his account should be looked at with extreme skepticism. Same goes for Mosiah Hancock, who wrote this story into Levi’s biography 60 years after the alleged events. No first hand statements whatsoever from Levi or from Fannys parents, not to mention Fanny or Joseph. You and the church admit that this situation is so poorly documented that conclusions can’t be drawn, but then you go on to state it as absolute fact. I’m not trying to attack you personally but I hope you realize the power of your words and the damage being done by these speculations. You have a lot of responsibility on your shoulders as the “authority” on this topic so please be careful in the story that tell.
“Not trying to attack you personally”, yet you attack his honesty. Indeed, the power of words…. Like every historian EVER, Brian can read evidence in the history and make his own assumptions. If he weighs the evidence differently than you and assumes different conclusions, that does not make him dishonest. Knowing this and then saying you’re not attacking him personally, all while attacking his personal honesty IS actually dishonest.
@@jeremybelinski7713 I’m not calling Brian a dishonest person, I just don’t agree with his interpretation of these sources. The story of Fanny is built on mere rumors and extremely late and motivated sources. I really appreciate the way Brian has compiled sources but I would like him to be more up front that his interpretation is speculative.
How do you explain polyandry with women married to active members in good standing? Ask Brian about when the angel with sword stories start and what the circumstances where in Utah at the time?
Abraham a polygamist - debatable, but definitely not commanded by God Jacob - Yes, not by choice and definitely not commanded by God Moses - Not likely Isaac - No David and Solomon - condemned by the JST and the Book of Mormon Compare this to D&C 132….
Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and Isaac all have one thing in common, they are generally considered by biblical scholars to be fictional characters created to build a historical narrative of authority for the Israelites.
I compared them and the funny thing is that Doctrine and Covenants 132 and The Book of Mormon both condemn David and Solomon, but also they don't condemn Abraham, Jacob, Nathanial or other individuals who either practiced plural marriage or officiated in it.
I believe Hinckley knew very well that there was a doctrinal justification for polygamy just as he recognised that Hoffman's infamous Salamander letter aligned with the hidden magical beliefs of Joseph Smith. Additionally I believe Hinckley was born into a polygamist family and I find it hard to believe he wasn't taught about it's origins
Marrying other mens wives was a display of J.S. ultimate power over the believers of the day. David Koresh pulled the same antics with the Branch Davidians. Three thing J.S. loved: power, money and sex
Except Joseph never did it. Joseph was monogamous, and faithful to his wife Emma. Brigham Young was the one who began polygamy, and reverse engineered the history to make it look like it came from Joseph.
@@hhsisters5508No credible historian would agree with your point and polygamy aside , there's evidence that Brother Joseph had trouble with marital fidelity early on in his and Emma's marriage. Polygamy was IMO a convenient justification for his sexual excesses
The private (or secretive if you prefer) nature of the Kirtland/Nauvoo period polygamy makes it very difficult to pin down a lot of facts. Its not perfectly clear but it seems like Emma was unaware of most of the marriages. She allegedly acquiesced to and even participated in the Partridge sisters and Lawrence sisters sealings but if I'm correct she had no knowledge of the other women except maybe Fanny. Of all the troubling aspects that's the one I find the most troubling.
Don Bradley has an essay in Cheryl Bruno's new book Secret Covenants that in my opinion compellingly argues the date of the Joseph Smith/Fanny Alger marriage happening on July 23rd 1836. He makes a great argument of tracing all the fallout from Emma finding out about it back to that date. That at least puts the relationship after the restoration of the sealing keys.
Cool. Cool. Cool. Even if all your mental gymnastics are true and this is SOMEHOW how God works-this is not a God I want to worship or a religion I want to support. These are mind blowing rationalizations of behavior you’d look down on in any other person or organization. No thank you.
Definitely age is a cultural thing. My Lebanese grandmother was placed in an arranged marriage at the age of 12 to a man in his 40s!!! This was in Canada in 1903. So it definitely was a different time in terms of marriageable age even in the early 20th century!!!
Research for 19th century marriage records demonstrates that teenage marriage when it occurred, was to other young people not to middle aged men . You are using a different cultural group as evidence for European/North American marriage practice.
i have to correct Brian hale. in the church today a sealed man who is divorced can remarry and be sealed to an other woman with the acceptance of the ex or exes. this is a fact since i m sealed to 3 different women and all are alive and well~~~~ the sealing to a second wife after the first is possible but it doesnt limit a man to be sealed only if the firt wife is dead.
@@littleredhen3218 i wouldnt say that. we dont live together. im divorced from all of them . its not poly gamy as such since i dont live with them. being sealed to multiple women doent make it polygamy since i dont live with them . how this will turn out after death is an other story.
When I have this conversation I'm told that noone in the new testament practiced polygamy and/or the the new testament banns it. Is there anything new testament doctrine to confirm or refute this?
Jesus in mark 10:9-12 explains that even if a man writes a bill of divorcement he is still married in God's eyes and that being married still, if he marries a second wife he commits adultry. Paul says that celibacy is ideal but marriage is approved under the condition that each man has his "own" wife and each woman has her "own" husband. This is monogamy. 1 Corinthians 7:2
@@justjamie6458 marrying a second woman when you are already married is polygamy and Jesus calls it adultery. A woman having her own husband is monogamy and it is the only New Testament form of marriage that is approved of.
I wonder if Joseph Smith knew polygamy was a restoration of all things and only temporary and foresaw a day that it would be suspended and maybe shared that with Emma which placated her for the time being. Just speculating.
Brian, why do you believe non contemporary history of women who are polygamist wives of Brigham and Heber C, but you don't believe Emma's words? Or Joseph's words? Your thinking is off. You should stop talking about Emma. You are repeating lies. Emma is Joseph's only wife!
Great video. Polygamy is far from an easy topic to discuss; I used to stutter anytime I was in a position where I had to explain it. I really like some of the statements Hales made; Joseph Smith was a restorer and he restored the Old testament practice of plural marriage. It didn't happen in a vacuum, it wasn't restored without some hiccups, controversy, and mistakes, but that doesn't mean it wasn't inspired. I feel at peace knowing that in due time the Lord will reveal the full reason why it was implemented.
The Lord has already revealed why it was practiced. It was an abomination and abhorrent to Him, but we are allowed our agency. Brigham "restored" it. Joseph fought it - every. single. time. There are zero credible accounts of Joseph admitting to it, let alone teaching it. Stop making Joseph a liar and a pedophile. He was the prophet of the dispensation and all of the scriptures that came through him denied polygamy was of God - BOM, JST of the Bible. D&C 132 was not produced by Joseph. Look into things a little and be honest. Expect honesty from a true prophet of God. Look at the credibility of the sources you gather information from. The narrative that has been pushed is not a slam-dunk.
@@CMZIEBARTH Saying that he knows in "due time" the Lord will reveal that polygamy was correct. Wasn't it Cowdery who said it was "dirty, nasty and filthy"? Falsely claiming you know things is a result of being indoctrinated with a touch of cognitive dissonance. There's no credible evidence for his claim.
Sarai. After she died he married Keturah as a concubine. He didn't marry Hagar. She was a bondwoman or a handmaid Sarai used for a surrogate to be able to get a child. It backfired. No covenant children except the promised Isaac.
27:10 Joe Smith was sealed to 34 women, but Warren Jeffs was sealed to 83, so Joseph is totally OK!!!!
Joseph was sealed to 14 year old girls, but Warren was sealed to a 12 year old so Joseph is totally OK!
My word, this kind of justification at all costs is pathetic
"you would just worry how a pregnancy would be handled"? No, I would just worry if she was old enough to consent?, Child abuse? Sex assault? A lack of proof does not prove the contrary. Why use that argument over and over?
Also, why does a discussion on JS, need to compare him to a worse polygamist. It's a smoke screen to make him look better.
I appreciate that you’re trying to incorporate the unavoidable facts instead of denying them. But: a middle-aged man telling a teenage girl that if he doesn’t have sex with him, he will be killed by an Angel with a sword? That doesn’t sound like coercion to you? Just because he didn’t coerce everyone, that means he didn’t coerce anyone?
Please don't believe that. Brian is speaking evil of the Lord's annointed, the Prophet Joseph. Joseph was faithful to his wife, Emma, and there is ZERO evidence that anything Brian said Joseph did actually happened. He needs to be more responsible with his spreading of lies. One day he will be held accountable.
@@hhsisters5508😂 troll detected. The evidence is substantial. Practice intellectual honesty and your life will improve.
@ericreed4535 it is obvious that you haven t spent 5 minutes looking at the evidence, if you find the evidence "sibstsntial." Look at it thoroughly, and judge it without a biased lens. Facts don't lie. Instead, you have been intellectuelly dishonest, perhaps even a Lazy Learner and a Lax Disciple by taking Brian Hales at his word.
@@ericreed4535 Contemporary evidence or history is not substantial. It went missing. The many testimonies that Joseph was a polygamist were 20-30 years later. Even the judge in the temple lot case didn't believe the testimonies of those claiming Joseph was a polygamist. I believe Joseph's words and teachings in the Joseph Smith Papers, which is considered contemporary history.
@@jacbox3889And what do you make of Oliver Cowdery calling it a dirty, nasty and filthy affair? You're funny in your dismissal of many different accounts from many different witnesses and participants. The cognitive dissonance runs deep.
You don't know your Bible if you say that God was ok with polygamy and concubines.
@@crystallovesion why was Abraham given another wife? Why was the house of Isreal (arguably the most important family in the whole Bible) born out of Polygamy? Maybe you are closing your eyes to all of the polygamy in the Bible and how it actually is sanctioned at times? 🙏
God bless you! :)
@@nickhoward3040 Abraham "took" another wife handmaiden, by trying to make the promise come to fruition by their "own hands" aka the arm of the flesh. They were trying to step ahead of God, versus trusting in God in his promises. They were impatient and trying to control the situation and it caused strife. In the garden God created Adam and Eve. Not Adam and 20 other wifes. The two became one flesh. The house of Israel also came from Isaac and Jacob.
@@crystallovesion the house of ISRAEL came from ISRAEL (JACOB) and 4 wives. (Leah, Rachel, Zipah, Bilhah)
@@nickhoward3040why was Joseph “restoring” Old Testament practices if Jesus ended that? Why didn’t he restore animal sacrifices too? How about the Sabbath on Friday? It seems very convenient that he picked and choose doctrines that benefitted him such as polygamy, tithing, temples etc
@@nickhoward3040 he was tricked into working years for a a wife he didn't want. He thought he was going to marry Rachel, the father in-law tricked him. He ONLY LOVED Rachel. Look at All the DRAMA IT CAUSED! GOD was cleaning up the mess not approving of it!
So wait, Joseph went and married a young girl at 14, the church recognizes this as fact.. and you’re telling me he didn’t tell Emma? 😂 the apologetics out of this guy and the wildly spinning nuance he tries so desperately to drive home is honestly laughable. Look at the facts and choose for yourself if you believe that Joseph smith can be the one god chooses to bring back his church. The church simply cannot stand up to scrutiny
When it comes to coercion, I am troubled by the Happiness Letter. From my reading it is coercive and predatory. Can you speak to the faithful perspective of how that letter is not Joseph using God and his position to get a young girl to be with him. Why did he do things asking for secrecy from Emma and to destroy his letters after reading.? This is a difficult topic to me.
Perhaps there isn't a credible "faithful" perspective?
We are more informed as a society about coercive control and therefore better able to recognise it
We do victims no favours when we give a get out clause for such behaviour to someone who had religious power.
@@debbieshrubb1222 Thank you for saying that. I agree. I often hear the argument that times were just different then. That may be true in many regards. However, the requests to destroy letters, keep things from Emma, meet in secret, etc., speak volumes to me. Moreover, there were women of that time who had the courage to speak out and confront power. Nancy Rigdon will forever be an example of someone who, even in that period, called out the immoral behaviors of the prophet.
Brian, I really wish you would be more honest about how poor the sources are on Fanny Alger. Many other historians agree that it is highly improbable that Emma would ever confide in Mclellan, his account should be looked at with extreme skepticism. Same goes for Mosiah Hancock, who wrote this story into Levi’s biography 60 years after the alleged events. No first hand statements whatsoever from Levi or from Fannys parents, not to mention Fanny or Joseph. You and the church admit that this situation is so poorly documented that conclusions can’t be drawn, but then you go on to state it as absolute fact. I’m not trying to attack you personally but I hope you realize the power of your words and the damage being done by these speculations. You have a lot of responsibility on your shoulders as the “authority” on this topic so please be careful in the story that tell.
“Not trying to attack you personally”, yet you attack his honesty. Indeed, the power of words…. Like every historian EVER, Brian can read evidence in the history and make his own assumptions. If he weighs the evidence differently than you and assumes different conclusions, that does not make him dishonest. Knowing this and then saying you’re not attacking him personally, all while attacking his personal honesty IS actually dishonest.
I agree! Let's not attack Brian! What do you think about the sources on Fanny Alger?
@@jeremybelinski7713 I’m not calling Brian a dishonest person, I just don’t agree with his interpretation of these sources. The story of Fanny is built on mere rumors and extremely late and motivated sources. I really appreciate the way Brian has compiled sources but I would like him to be more up front that his interpretation is speculative.
@@BoboThegreat-u7t Are you asking me about the sources?
Cowdery called it "dirty, nasty, and filthy". What else do you need? 🥱
How do you explain polyandry with women married to active members in good standing? Ask Brian about when the angel with sword stories start and what the circumstances where in Utah at the time?
Abraham a polygamist - debatable, but definitely not commanded by God
Jacob - Yes, not by choice and definitely not commanded by God
Moses - Not likely
Isaac - No
David and Solomon - condemned by the JST and the Book of Mormon
Compare this to D&C 132….
Couldn't have said it better
Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and Isaac all have one thing in common, they are generally considered by biblical scholars to be fictional characters created to build a historical narrative of authority for the Israelites.
I compared them and the funny thing is that Doctrine and Covenants 132 and The Book of Mormon both condemn David and Solomon, but also they don't condemn Abraham, Jacob, Nathanial or other individuals who either practiced plural marriage or officiated in it.
So where does it lead you, Joseph was not a prophet or he was framed by Brigham Young?
Gordon B Hinkley said polygamy is not doctrinal.
I believe Hinckley knew very well that there was a doctrinal justification for polygamy just as he recognised that Hoffman's infamous Salamander letter aligned with the hidden magical beliefs of Joseph Smith.
Additionally I believe Hinckley was born into a polygamist family and I find it hard to believe he wasn't taught about it's origins
Marrying other mens wives was a display of J.S. ultimate power over the believers of the day. David Koresh pulled the same antics with the Branch Davidians. Three thing J.S. loved: power, money and sex
Except Joseph never did it. Joseph was monogamous, and faithful to his wife Emma. Brigham Young was the one who began polygamy, and reverse engineered the history to make it look like it came from Joseph.
@@hhsisters5508 You're not supposed to smoke the koolaid
@@hhsisters5508No credible historian would agree with your point and polygamy aside , there's evidence that Brother Joseph had trouble with marital fidelity early on in his and Emma's marriage.
Polygamy was IMO a convenient justification for his sexual excesses
The private (or secretive if you prefer) nature of the Kirtland/Nauvoo period polygamy makes it very difficult to pin down a lot of facts. Its not perfectly clear but it seems like Emma was unaware of most of the marriages. She allegedly acquiesced to and even participated in the Partridge sisters and Lawrence sisters sealings but if I'm correct she had no knowledge of the other women except maybe Fanny. Of all the troubling aspects that's the one I find the most troubling.
Emma denied that Joseph ever practiced polygamy.
@@jacbox3889 Yes she did. At worst she lied and at best she suffered from post-traumatic amnesia.
Don Bradley has an essay in Cheryl Bruno's new book Secret Covenants that in my opinion compellingly argues the date of the Joseph Smith/Fanny Alger marriage happening on July 23rd 1836. He makes a great argument of tracing all the fallout from Emma finding out about it back to that date. That at least puts the relationship after the restoration of the sealing keys.
Brian hello. Carey Christenson here from the ‘Sounds of Zion’ days. Good to see you.
Cool. Cool. Cool. Even if all your mental gymnastics are true and this is SOMEHOW how God works-this is not a God I want to worship or a religion I want to support. These are mind blowing rationalizations of behavior you’d look down on in any other person or organization. No thank you.
Definitely age is a cultural thing. My Lebanese grandmother was placed in an arranged marriage at the age of 12 to a man in his 40s!!! This was in Canada in 1903. So it definitely was a different time in terms of marriageable age even in the early 20th century!!!
Research for 19th century marriage records demonstrates that teenage marriage when it occurred, was to other young people not to middle aged men .
You are using a different cultural group as evidence for European/North American marriage practice.
i have to correct Brian hale. in the church today a sealed man who is divorced can remarry and be sealed to an other woman with the acceptance of the ex or exes. this is a fact since i m sealed to 3 different women and all are alive and well~~~~ the sealing to a second wife after the first is possible but it doesnt limit a man to be sealed only if the firt wife is dead.
@@littleredhen3218 i wouldnt say that. we dont live together. im divorced from all of them . its not poly gamy as such since i dont live with them. being sealed to multiple women doent make it polygamy since i dont live with them . how this will turn out after death is an other story.
When I have this conversation I'm told that noone in the new testament practiced polygamy and/or the the new testament banns it. Is there anything new testament doctrine to confirm or refute this?
No polygamy is found in the New Testament.
Jesus in mark 10:9-12 explains that even if a man writes a bill of divorcement he is still married in God's eyes and that being married still, if he marries a second wife he commits adultry.
Paul says that celibacy is ideal but marriage is approved under the condition that each man has his "own" wife and each woman has her "own" husband. This is monogamy. 1 Corinthians 7:2
corretion, Mark 10:6-12 is what you should read to see the full context.
@@mkprr none of these chapters mentions anything for or against polygamy.
@@justjamie6458 marrying a second woman when you are already married is polygamy and Jesus calls it adultery. A woman having her own husband is monogamy and it is the only New Testament form of marriage that is approved of.
Wish I had known all this before I traveled around saying it was fake anti material.
What a great video!!!
It was Brigham who did things wrong. He learned all of it from the Cochranites.
I wonder if Joseph Smith knew polygamy was a restoration of all things and only temporary and foresaw a day that it would be suspended and maybe shared that with Emma which placated her for the time being. Just speculating.
Brian, why do you believe non contemporary history of women who are polygamist wives of Brigham and Heber C, but you don't believe Emma's words? Or Joseph's words? Your thinking is off. You should stop talking about Emma. You are repeating lies. Emma is Joseph's only wife!
Yuck! You are saying terrible things about Emma. Please have charity and stop!
Great video. Polygamy is far from an easy topic to discuss; I used to stutter anytime I was in a position where I had to explain it. I really like some of the statements Hales made; Joseph Smith was a restorer and he restored the Old testament practice of plural marriage. It didn't happen in a vacuum, it wasn't restored without some hiccups, controversy, and mistakes, but that doesn't mean it wasn't inspired. I feel at peace knowing that in due time the Lord will reveal the full reason why it was implemented.
In due time the Truth will be revealed.
You're going to be waiting a long time. Practice intellectual honesty and your life will improve.
The Lord has already revealed why it was practiced. It was an abomination and abhorrent to Him, but we are allowed our agency. Brigham "restored" it. Joseph fought it - every. single. time. There are zero credible accounts of Joseph admitting to it, let alone teaching it. Stop making Joseph a liar and a pedophile. He was the prophet of the dispensation and all of the scriptures that came through him denied polygamy was of God - BOM, JST of the Bible. D&C 132 was not produced by Joseph. Look into things a little and be honest. Expect honesty from a true prophet of God. Look at the credibility of the sources you gather information from. The narrative that has been pushed is not a slam-dunk.
@@ericreed4535What was he not honest about?
@@CMZIEBARTH Saying that he knows in "due time" the Lord will reveal that polygamy was correct. Wasn't it Cowdery who said it was "dirty, nasty and filthy"? Falsely claiming you know things is a result of being indoctrinated with a touch of cognitive dissonance. There's no credible evidence for his claim.
What about the angel threatening Joseph w a sword?
Completely false. There is no contemporary evidence that it ever happened. Besides, it defies logic. This is not the way God works. Ever.
Never happened
@@hhsisters5508true
It was a flaming sword...
What did Cowdery say about the affair?
His brother said he called it a scrape or in other words a mess
@@krismurphy7711 you are free to have that position. Just be mindful of your assumptions
@@krismurphy7711 good to know.
Who did Abraham marry?
Sarai.
After she died he married Keturah as a concubine.
He didn't marry Hagar.
She was a bondwoman or a handmaid Sarai used for a surrogate to be able to get a child.
It backfired. No covenant children except the promised Isaac.
You've studied more than anyone, you sure think highly of yourself. Your pride is nauseating!
I respect Brian's work. I encourage him to do more. Lets betallion more learning and discussions on this subject!!!
Also I agree that pride is wrong. And I agree that the science isn't settled.
This is painful! Stop!
Be wary of Mormon Stories viewers flooding in.
Yes, please be very wary of us lazy learners and lax desciples.