D&D 5e 2024 Player's Handbook Ranger Reveal | Nerd Immersion
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Let's see what WotC reveals about the 2024 PHB Ranger!
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I really don't understand how you can have on one hand: Barbarian and Monk getting +4 to 2 ability scores, Fighter getting a 4th attack, Bard getting Power Word: Heal and Kill for free AND targeting 2 creatures with it, and at the same time have capstone like "Hunter's Mark increases to D10 damage now" and rogue turning 1 failed d20 roll into a 20. The disparity between capstones is honestly wild.
The Rogue ability is huge. It means you never fail that critical D20 roll
@solowolf7418 yup, rogue is amazing, not only do you not critically fail but you double your odds of a critical success!
@@solowolf7418 but limited to once. So either you use it to guarantee a crit or save it for a big save that may or may not happen.
@@seangill2522Once per day auto crit is still really good and way better than the ranger option.
@keeganmbg6999 no argument it's way better than Ranger. But it's still on the lower end of capstones overall
Ranger-flavored La Croix is the best analogy I've heard to describe it, well done Ted.
I would happily wait an extra month for the PHB if they fixed the Ranger...
Not happening, these videos are to build hype, not sample the audience opinion.
The books are probably in printing now.
Same, the refusal to really change the Ranger makes me hesitant to buy the new books
They should just make Hunter's mark like Sneak Attack. Remove the spell slot requirement, make it a bonus action mark that lasts 1 minute, remove the concentration feature, but it only works on 1 enemy at a time. Hunter's mark is still 1d6, but adds a d6 every feat/ASI level. However, limit it to # of uses per short rest like Rage.
It's gotta last longer than that. My beef with Hunter's Mark is that the tracking part is mostly useless, you have to find them to use it, so it's only useful if they try, and succeed, to run away, and giving chase is desired. Hunter's Mark should just be a feature you can use once per long rest, where you just pick any one specific target, regardless of where they are, to be your mark. Ol' Grizzle the bear causing the town trouble? Pick it as my mark, and give me like +10 to find and follow tracks to its den, and deal extra damage to it. Done.
hunters mark needs to last way longer than 1 minute, possibly even just until you use it again
@@Lexgamer Honestly, it doesn't take some magical ability to track. Just knowledge of tracks and perception.
I actually do this in my version of the Ranger I run, but it progresses at half the speed of sneak attack. Actually, my version of the class was brought about when I watched a video, and Ted pointed out that Paladin is just fighter mixed with cleric, something along those lines, I made mine at first like fighter mixed with druid, but settled on rogue mixed so then it would fall under my design pillars for the class. Mobility, Countermobility, and Survivability. The combat engineer tasks I learned and mixing abilities from the Rogue, and Paladin's base progression, the Ranger from Tales of the Valiant, and BG3 helped make it to the version I'm testing atm.
@@brandonclark435 Can't tell if that's agreeing with me or not, but yeah, essentially why just being a feature that grants like a +10 makes sense to me. Not a spell, just a class that's damn good and finding who they want when they want.
Ranger is my favourite class, and I can’t remember how long it’s been since I’ve enjoyed playing it.
But now you can cast Hunters Mark for free!!
If Hunter's Mark is going to be the fundamental ability for Rangers, there NEEDS to be upgrades/changes to it you get before level 13. The fact that your main feature is exactly the same for 13 levels is INSANE.
Extra Attack technically improves it, but it does feel bad compared to new Sneak Attack.
@@xInsane333x Did they not change hunters mark to be once per turn now like hex?
And 99% the same at 13. Heck, at 17, it's just... advantage, which is pretty easy to come by.
I just really, REALLY get the feeling they never compared any redesign of the Ranger against ANY of the other classes.
Especially since there was a pretty big shadow nerf to the class, sharpshooter no longer gives extra damage.
Without that, you're stuck at... 2 attacks from 5th level to 20th. And only ever really get a damage bump at 17th and 20th level if you do what they seem to be wanting you to do, which is concentrating on a 1st level spell.
@@MrSeals1000You could make the argument that all martial got the same shadow nerf of GWM and Sharpshooter, so I’m not sure that’s a strong argument.
@@keeganmbg6999Treantmonk demonstrated that GWM builds didn't really get nerfed, though. The damage is similar, if not better, but it also takes into account that Charger became a good feat.
Part of why that is, is the combination of these feats giving you +1s, and GWM offering bonus damage without penalties. A Barbarian with +3 STR and GWM/PAM at level 8 doesn't compare nearly as well as that same Barbarian with the revised GWM/PAM with +4 STR.
@@AnaseSkyrider I will remind you that Charger works with ranged builds in its new variation, the only difference between GWM/Charger and SS/Charger, is that GWM lets you add your prof bonus to your damage once per turn. This is a minor difference and at most levels will have the melee vs range characters only see a few points of damage off at most.
Also if they do SS/Crossbow Expert/Charger, they could get a whole extra attack each round and get their modifier damage added to the attack. So I know again you say nerfed but I’m not so convinced that it’s as big of a nerf you say since it’s not represented on GWM builds as well.
@@MrSeals1000 why is it everyone ignores the actual damage buffs Rangers do get? Every Subclass gives them a damage buff at 3rd and 11th level, plus they have spells! Ranger damage is fine.
Something most people haven't mentioned about "Nature's Veil" is that it used to be at lvl 10. It was moved to 14 (past when most campaigns end.) And it went from PB times to WIS modifier times.
I don't know about everyone else, but my WIS usually is around 14 or 15 while my DEX is maxed out. So, I'd get 3 uses of Nature's Veil at 14. Whereas, my Gloomstalker who I played the last 2 years could use NV at 10, and our PB was 4 at that level. It'd be 5 at level 14, so Nature's Veil was actually nerfed from the current version.
I didn't even notice the level change from 10 to 14 on the D&D Beyond article.
What's unfortunate is the 2024 Gloomstalker loses the additional attack.
Just use one of the dozens or more homebrew Rangers - just add weapon mastery - ready to go for 2024.
No it got buffed. Now it lasts until the end of your next turn instead of the start, i.e. double duration because you get two rounds of greater invisibility instead of just one.
@@PsyrenXY there is that, but it was moved 4 levels later, after most campaigns end.
It's so weird no one talks about this. Or the three abilities they lost
"This an entirely new class!"* * Is only new to people who have never played dnd *
or to people that never heard of Tasha's Cauldron 😂😅
It’s extremely different from 2014. It’s an update from Tasha. Still not as good as CFV, and the capstone sucks. It feels bad. But it’s another story from 2014.
Yeah this is all shit we’ve had for 4 years 😒
@@trexdrew the subclasses got good upgrades, Gloomstalker even got buffs to compensate the highly needed nerf.
But yeah, the class reveal felt bad.
@@Johnny5isstillalivethe subclasses are tbh a side grade compared to what they were imo and then the base class is ass. The beast master is nothing new as many in the comments and Ted himself said. Hunter is a mystery since he showed that the choices you make might not even be the good ones. Gloom and Fey Wanderer were already good and don’t seem like they got objectively upgraded.
Nothing annoys me more than "this is inside and out completely different, only similar in name," followed by them describing a feature that was literally in the 2014 handbook. Beast Master had Share Spells in 2014. THAT IS NOT NEW.
To be honest, all of this is scripted and those scripts are written by people that might not have played D&D once on their lives.
@@alfonsovallejo2665 The only scripted parts are the Todd Kenrick moments, which is the main reason everyone thought Necromancer was gonna make it because Todd really wanted it and inserted the question into the interview to which JC likely panicked.
@@portsyde3466 I've edited videos for a living when I was young and I can tell you with certainty that these interviews are 100% scripted, the little edits (that you can barely tell) are a sign of them reapeating the same part over and over until it hits good.
@alfonsovallejo2665 Crawford has notes but these actually are not scripted, the notes go over some rough talking points, an actual script would stop them from making some of the errors that they have made, like 3 times thus far Crawford has misread a single word in his notes and they go off on a tangent about it, the main example I can remember is barbarians who literally do not get to use strength instead of charisma for persuasion checks while raging with Primal knowledge, but it does work for perception checks and I have misread one as the other before
But yeah they go on this whole thing about the barbarian at the ballroom dance, which is clearly unscripted because it is all completely false, and there is no way they would put that in a proof read script
Also, these two actually do love playing D&D, they have home games where they play the base game with no homebrew or houserules
Also the new ranger is awesome and very strong, beastmaster is one of the top DPS classes in the game in 2024 rules
@nyanbrox5418 The problem is that the new BM pigeonholes you into a single play style, which is bad. So many class abilities are now tied to HM, which is bad design. I've played three beastmaster builds over the past decade and only the first used HM. My second BM was a wisdom based BM that used his concentration on cc and battle field control spells like entangle and spike growth, locking down enemies. My most recent was a STRanger that leaned heavily into "master of beasts" and focused entirely on concentrating on summon beast and conjure animals while getting in close and meleeing with all the critters thanks to resilient con and sentinel feats. I don't care that the new BM ranger does great damage, I fear that I now only have a single way to play the subclass since EVERYTHING is tied to this single concentration spell.
Like, _Bestow Curse_ won't require concentration if you use a 5th-level slot. Why can't _Hunter's Mark_ do the same with a 3rd-level slot?
Or, to prevent others from getting the spell and upcasting. Just make it a ranger feature that you need to actually take ranger levels to unlock.
They already showed they are fine doing that by trying hunters mark upgrades into the base class. Now just make it actually worth our tiime for the commitment we put into sticking with ranger.
So OP comparing summon fey to hunters mark is misleading. They have to cast it without concentration if they wanna keep the damage and advantage. The closest 1:1 is the beast companion because it is an additional creature (hp, damage, and abilities) and by comparison it is far worse than the beast which has no duration
Jeremy Crawford was bullied by a park ranger as a kid, and now he trolls ranger players with intentionally subpar design...
I’ve seen a post elsewhere and I had a similar idea that if WotC is gonna focus that HM is the central focus of the class, at the outset, give it an augment. Ex: Hunter gets an increased Crit Range or it gets Advantage(granted it gets it far later in the base class), Beast Master companion attacks for free as part of the Hunters Attack as long as that target is Marked. Fey Wanderer can teleport immediately after attacking Marked Target. And Gloomstalker Frightens or does Psychic damage to the target. Each has a different effect and gives a new identity to Hunters Mark besides it being the “Ranger’s Damage Spell.” The Mark should have its identity reflect the subclass as well, showing the Rangers speciality in marking their target.
I put similar things in my feedback for the Ranger. Would've been nice for it to be a Sneak Attack analogue rather than just a raw damage boost that locks you out from iconic spells like Entangle or Summon spells.
@@xInsane333x hells, a part of me was thinking, maybe the Rangers spell casting could function much like the artificer. Or they be a mix of Wis for spells and Con for their class feature effects. If their class “ranges far and wide” that would imply they are peak physical condition, more so if not equal to the Monk.
i knew when they didn't do a 3rd playtest of ranger that we were in danger.
And they told us we were ‘satisfied’ 😂
The worst part was, they made a UA video saying "We've seen the surveys and have noted the areas where people like. Ranger won't be coming back to UA, but we will be looking to add all the features that everyone loves from both UAs." And then we got this garbage
@@btmikey1925 I was thinking the same thing. I don’t know why they think this is popular and why they are so afraid to give ranger good class features.
Exactly. When they told us we were ‘satisfied’… I knew the Ranger was doomed!
@@LaneyPlatt If they actually combined the best of the two UAs I would've been "satisfied". Not happy, but satisfied. Now I'm just sad. My level 4 ranger is probably done gaining Ranger levels 🤣🤣
I haven't watched the video yet. But the facepalm thumbnail seems appropriate for every version of Ranger so far.
The current Ranger seems an improvement over this new Ranger.
It is, they just altered the Tasha's version and made it worse.
We have a brand new feature similar to the one in Tashas
Proceeds to describe exactly what is in Tashas lmao
It’s hard to tell how Ted feels about the new Ranger…
As was pointed out on Reddit, this is somewhat of a lesser version of Tasha's ranger with artificer spellcasting and the new UA weapon mastery.
No Primal/Primeval Awareness, no Land's Stride, no Vanish, and Roving now has the limitation of no full plate allowed. Nature’s Veil is Wis times/long rest instead PB times, and the capstone is d10 hunter’s mark instead of Wis mod to attack OR damage against your favored enemy/foe (applied before or after the roll). Blindsight is nice, but you could get 10 ft at 2nd level with the Fighting Style.
Then you have all the bonus action stuff. Beast master needs to use a bonus action to command the pet, hunter's mark is a bonus action, and Nature's Veil is a bonus action. That flies in the face of JC saying in the paladin video about how they were looking at minimizing actions and merging them together as "part of" actions. The ranger sure isn't seeing that.
The UA 2017 hunter's mark that was no concentration, and the One D&D capstone being Wis mod to attack and damage with hunter's mark is so much better.
Also, as many people have pointed out, why do the druid and ranger get pets as part of the base class, but the ranger has to take a subclass? It's weird.
Its like they started with finalizing the Ranger first, then starting implementing better designs with finalizing every other class... reminds me of the 2014 Rangers worse version of design vs other classes.
I legitimately don’t see a point to play the updates when you could play the Tasha’s ones instead? You get all the same features including the ones they didn’t keep plus you get the subclasses as you’ve always known them?
It's so much better than Tasha's ranger and I wish people would see that.
1) swap spells after long rests instead of leveling up
2) Weapon Mastery (Nick being the standout so that you can TWF with your BA free)
3) Can use every Fighting Style now
4) 3x Expertise from Deft Explorer
5) Nature's Veil (aka Vanish) now goes to the end of your next turn, i.e. lasting twice as long, still without concentration
6) Feral Senses now grants true Blindsight, so it works even if you are blinded or deafened
7) no longer need a preparation for Hunters Mark, free castings, and at later levels concentration can't be broken by damage and you get constant advantage against the marked target.
Like #1 alone is such a huge buff to the Ranger and all the rest is gravy. 2024 Ranger is great.
As for BM commanding the pet, remember you can give up an attack to do that too on turns where you really need your BA for something else.
@@PsyrenXY you can only swap ONE single spell on a rest. Not all spells.
I gotta bring Crawford to my funeral so he can let me down one final time.
The new ranger reminds me of a Bethesda game, where they had a lot of potential, but royally screwed it up, and now the player base has to fix it for them 😂
I do agree, Rangers should have gotten either concentration free and or free action (applies Hunter's Mark on the first hit of a round) Hunter's Mark at level 10
Tireless should have been a level 6 feature and Roving level 2, but I think they're better than you're giving them credit for.
For the version of the ranger im testing, Hunter's Mark is a class ability like how Smite used to be, so it isn't a spell, not that'll be missed with Hex outshining it in some cases. But I also gave them a version of Evasion for Constitution saving throws of any kind called Hardy.
Hunters Mark should have been a level 1 free Cantrip, the damage would scale with other Cantrips, at later levels you could have it become non concentration, affect additional targets.
The UA Hunters Mark does scale some with (spell) level. I had assumed the Ranger automatically gets the highest version of the spell. If not, the ones at my table would. Also probably at least advantage on con saves for concentration until they get it for free.
Hunters mark should just be a ranger feature that upgrades with ranger levels and can be used wisdom/proficiency number of times per day, recharging a use on short rest.
This is how I would start to fix the ranger.
Hunters Mark
Bonus Action to cast.
No concentration.
If you cast Hunters Mark on a target, a range of 120ft, it lasts 1h / Ranger Level, you know the creature's general direction and it cannot benefit from hidden or invisible conditions against you.
If you cast Hunters Mark targeting yourself, it lasts 1 combat round per Spell Level used.
When you hit with a weapon that you are proficient with you can add Hunters Mark damage, based on your Ranger Level.
At 1st Level: 1d6
At 5th Level: 1d8
At 11th Level: 1d10
At 17th Level: 1d12
- Keeping the number of dice as 1 balances the ability as it is possible to trigger it with every attack.
- As it is no longer locked on target, this allows attacks to be made against more than one enemy without losing the damage bonus.
- Because it is a spell that targets the character, beastmaster's companion also benefits from it.
13th Level: When you cast Hunters Mark its duration is extended by 1 min.
: Target marked by your hunter's mark: You know the distance to the marked target and what speed it is traveling.
- This allows a minimum of 11 rounds of Hunters mark usage, allowing level 1 casting of it to last as long or longer than any reasonable combat encounter.
17th Level: Attacks made with Hunters Mark have an advantage.
: Target marked by your hunter's mark: You additionally know how many creatures travel nearby of your marked target.
- The 13th and 17th level abilities for hunters mark if it is cast on a target increase the utility of it when tracking a target.
20th Level: When your Hunters Mark expires, it refunds the spell slot you used to cast it.
: 6 times per long rest (proficiency bonus times) you can as a part of an attack empower the hunter's mark. This increases the hunter's marks damage to 2d12.
: 1/ day If you have marked a target with a hunter's mark you can use Scrying on the target, doing so ends the Hunter's Mark.
Hunter
Level 11: When you take attack action using a range weapon you are proficient with, you can make 1 additional attack roll.
- I don't like the splash damage Hunters Mark at all.
- I also don't like that Ranger with a fighting style that uses ranged weapons is limited to 2 attacks.
- This also keeps Ranger Hunter relevant longer when comparing it to Fighter which takes an Archery fighting style.
I said this in the livestream, but changing it to Hunter's Ire: When you make an attack, as part of that attack action, you can focus your ire on that target, letting you deal additional damage equal to your proficiency bonus, as well as giving you advantage on perception, investigation, insight, and intimidation checks on the target. At Level 6, you gain an additional D6 of damage to attacks you make on targets under Hunter's Ire. At Level 11, the damage increases to an additional D6, for 2d6 of additional damage. By Level 17, you are an expert hunter, giving your proficiency bonus damage the expertise feature.
If it's going to be a class feature and the defining feature, make it impactful.
Does anyone else think that the identity of the Ranger should have just been the amalgamation of the Beastmaster subclass into the class itself; think about if you just had a "magical beast" that could run with you all the time, it could just be the stat block/template system, or go as far as a Fey Wanderer with a Blink Dog, a Gloomstalker the with a Displacer Beast, the Hunter gets an Owlbear, yeah yeah I know a bit about extreme, but if the Druid's identity is turning into a beast or nature magic, then why not a loyal companion for the Ranger? If you add the fact their spells affect the beast as well, the problem with scaling and keeping pace versus other classes would then become an issue of keeping it from being overpowered, lol.
The Hunter without the mandatory choose your style could be the base ranger, just add the Spell casting features and its a solid class.
No, please no. Keep pets out of the ranger base. That would make it the worst class.
Previous editions had animal companion as a class ability
Personally I’d want this to be a spell/feature similar to how paladins get find steed. Find steed basically gives you a combat companion when not mounted. I summoned a lion once as a Paladin and had fun with those pack tactics.
@@Neves_GThat's exactly what I was thinking. Change hunters mark to Tasha's Favored foe, remove concentration, and convert Hunter into the Ranger base class.
Hunter's Mark always felt to me like it should be a snowballing feature that stacked debuffs with each additional hit.
Something along the lines of each hit adds one of the following debuffs, each ending on your next turn
1. Slow - reduce creature speed by ten feet.
2. Blind - blind creature
3. Impair - prevent creature from using reactions.
4. Silence -prevent creature from making noise or using verbal components.
For the Long-rest it could simply reduce the time you need by one hour.
To improve Hunter's Mark over the life of a Ranger, give the Ranger an additional damage die with each class feature that boosts Hunter's Mark. So at 20 that be 4d10 additional per hit.
The easiest and simplest fix to this without going under the hood too much is to make Hunter's Mark not require concentration for Rangers. Then change Relentless Hunter to improve Hunter's Mark so it does a d8 as an intermediary before reaching Foe Slayer to get a d10.
I'd also add the Hunter's Lore feature from Hunter to base Ranger with their Hunter's Mark. And for Hunter, change that feature to just doing more damage. Perhaps, even making the targeted creature vulnerable to their damage.
These changes would give them a general damage bump, it would overall enable the Ranger to improve the damage effectiveness of their group and if the Ranger wanted more damage output, their concentration is now free for spells to help with that.
What I don't get is why the Paladin basically gets half the Cleric spellcasting with half the spell slots and half level worth of prepared spells (as it should) but the Ranger gets an awful bastardized version of the Druid spellcasting with half the spell slots and like 4 known spells by the time the campaign ends. Sure, you can swap one spell a day now. That doesn't matter if they still only get 2 known spells, getting 1 more every odd level.
I just don't get it. They let the Monk have good and useful features. Why can't the Ranger get sufficient spells and actual features? Why let it sit in its puddle of mediocrity when the fixes and examples of greatness are right there?
In my opinion WotC ruined the ranger again. Some of the new features sound cool but I agree with Nerd Immerison that basing everything around a level 1 spell and then their capstone is just, well it's a d10 now, is basically nothing. Again in my opinion, I think that if people wanted to play a ranger they should probably just homebrew with their DM or find a 3rd party ranger that they like.
I just miss some of the stuff from older editions, like how most classes had some cool unique feature that was based off their primary stat that they could use a number of times per day up to their modifier, usually with a + 1. Like hunters mark should just be an intrinsic ability of rangers that they can do Wisdom modifier times per long rest with a short rest restoring 1 use. Sorcerers should have Bonus metamagic points = to their charisma mod and recover charisma mod points on a short rest (though honestly "sorcerer points" is the laziest, inelegant and grafted on system in all of 5th edition and they should have gained and tracked metamagic in a different way.). Wizards should be able to restore a spell slot upto their Int mod once per short rest etc.
Then you have that juxtaposed against some classes that instead of getting something based off an attribute modifier they have a contextual feature that's always on, like how rogues have sneak attack and used to get a chance to use it on everyone's turns, making positioning the rogue and increasing their number of opportunity attacks a key strategy of the party. Honestly raging barbarians should also have a feature where they get additional attacks of opportunity to be used whenever they take damage and an enemy is within reach, and monks should be able to flurry of blows on their attack of opportunity too.
For a Ranger Beast master in my games, I just tell the player to pick any other Ranger subclass and give them an animal sidekick to also play.
Maybe that's overpowered (people online beraded me for asking if it qas a way to fix the class), but it levels up the beast and gives them powers and HP and AC that is all theirs.
So far it's worked out well.
Who cares if its a bit op. Its way more fun. Cool DM moment.
Lv 1: Hunters Mark no needs concentration
Lv2: Deft Explorer gain Expertise and one Elemental Resistence (change resistence after long rest)
Lv 13: Hunters Mark 2d6 damage
Lv 20: Hunters Mark 3d6 damage and double iniciative bonus, If the Ranger is first on the initiative roll, he gets an extra turn on the first round.
Barbarians lvl 20 feature effectively adds 2 damage to each attack too. And boosts health, all strength checks, saves etc. Rangers get an average to 2 damage, only to creatures the spent a bonus action targeting and maintain concentration on...😢
Why do people keep saying 2 average damage? Rangers have Extra Attack. It's 4 average, clearly a superior capstone :^)
And only once per turn
So...the level 20 capstone is 2 dmg(on average) per weapon attack?
Wow, that is maybe the worst capstone we have ever had in 5th ed.
I dont know why WOTC think damage die increases are these massive buffs, its simple math to see its inconsequential, especially at LEVEL 20
If I had a Nickle for every time Ranger was a terrible class id have TWO NICKLES! Which isn't a lot but its funny it happened twice!
That’s what generates ill will. Why did he say it was completely new? If he had said “We received excellent feedback from the optional features in Tasha’s, so we decided to adopt them and fine-tune them.”
Still not fantastic, but better than 2014 PHB, and he wouldn’t have raised expectations by saying it’s a brand new class.
The idea too that having hunters mark require concentration so "it cant stack" is wild when you have other classes that can do so much more regularly.
I fixed this a long time ago in my home game. Keep the current Tashas Favored Foe ability, only remove concentration. PB per times a day. It scales as you level. It frees up your ability to use your bonus action for other things, like your entire subclass identity for Beastmaster.
Thank you so much for calling out Jeremy's BS comments about the Ranger having new features. It just rubs me the wrong way how he treats their audience as being stupid to not notice all of the Tasha's features.
2014 Ranger lvl 20 capstone: add your Wis mod to attack & damage rolls, once per turn (on a favored enemy).
WotC: Let's make this (arguably) worst capstone even WORSE for the 2024 Revision!!!
Now, instead of +3, +4, or +5 to attacks/damage once per turn, you get.... (drum roll please)...... +2 instead! And only to damage!
I mean seriously, wtf? Like, just... W.T.F.?
Upcasting variations HM; lvl 2 slot-burning mark d6 fire at start of target turn
Lvl 3 slot-vampiric mark d6 of healing to ranger at start of target turn. Etc etc adds more REASON to use HM. Add more variety like how they did rogue sneak dice
Gloomstalker didn’t need a nerf, all the other subclasses needed to be buffed up to the Gloomstalker level..
It makes me wonder who on the design team loves the ranger. I have never seen any of them play a ranger in public. I think they don’t have anyone fighting for anything better for this class.
aka: just use Tasha's version its better in every way....
Level 10 Tireless feature. Decreased Exhaustion on short rest SOUNDS decent... but how many things actually cause Exhaustion? In 2014, it was the Barbarian Frenzy and... what? DM discretion? Based upon tracking food, rest, and environmental exposure?
Now, this could be cool, if Exhaustion becomes a condition in 2024 that is more prevalent- caused by spells or certain special monster attacks. But otherwise, I think it's just a fancy sounding, but mostly VERY situational feature.
I agree that giving ranger the new exotic Kvostov would be very fun
Hunter should 1000% have no concentration for a Hunter and maybe even throw a couple free casts every day.
I agree with them that concentration free hunters mark is too strong... at lvl 1 or for a 1 level dip. Other bonuses that classes get that add a die to attacks come at level 7+. I'd say at level 10, steal this text from Fey Wanderers level 11 feature but apply to Hunters mark: "Whenever you start casting the spell, you can modify it so that it doesn’t require concentration. If you do so, the spell’s duration becomes 1 minute for that casting." Then move Tireless to 13.
I watched the One Shot Questers video before watching Teds' video. It was interesting to see the two different disappointment reactions to the new Ranger. Duke was like slamming into a brick wall which brought him to a rapid halt from his usual high energy enthusiasm, while Ted was like "what the fu...!"
Both were like "this is the first disappointing video in the series, even with the certain changes like the smite change to Paladin, for example"!
This is hilarious. ToV's ranger is leaps and bounds better than what WotC is passing off as "a completely new class".
I almost think Ranger shouldn't be a class anymore, but a series of feats a player takes.
Rather than feats, it's a rogue subclass in the scout, but the fighter could be a divine caster version.
I feel this way about ranger, monk,and barbarian.
I genuinely wish that they would take a queue from PF2E, give us a Hunt Prey/ Hunter's edge, with the feats acting as options for each subclass, that is a defining feature with flexibility
So Tireless got changes from Proficiency bonus to Wisdom mod
Similar to the Dune fans wanting to see Frank Herbert's note to explain Brian Herbert's decisions... I would love to see this level 20 internal playtest that revealed the OP Ranger being balanced with the level 20 Fighter and Paladin, for them to just do a port of the Tasha's Ranger instead. Especially after finding... the Divine Smite spell now, no longer has a dice cap restriction as of their latest UA.
I am currently playing a Drakewarden Ranger, with the Druidic warrior fighting style. Shillelagh alongside a Drake companion is fun. Would actually work better with Tasha's beastmaster changes.
Even compared to tasha beastmaster changes the drake companion is honestly a little more powerful because if your drake dies in battle all you need is a 1st lvl spell slot and an action and it is back with full hp while the beast companion needs you to also touch it and a minute of waiting time. So in combat if the beast companion is killed you have no subclass for the rest of the fight but if a drake companion is killed you just summon it again immediately
I'm just going to keep using Laserllama's Alt. Ranger on GMBinder.
Thank you for this
So Far What dissapoints me
Barberians :
Brutal strike doesnt stack with wreckless attack. monsters hit much harder at that level so having you lose advantage sucks .
Fix: keep the advantage make the d10 an option and at level 13 make a new option so you can roll a third d20 with the advantage similar to Elven accuracy !
why : THAT is an incentive to stick with barbarians ! and not just take two levels like most barbarian builds . they either take 2 or 5 max .
Druids :
No casting in Wildshape until level 18 (Except a very small list for Moon) which is 18 levels of you not having half your class.
Fix: When you cast a spell in wild shape expend a use of wildshape until level 18 you dont need to do that
why : the level 5 feature that let you expend a spell slot to gain a use of wildshape . So at later levels you want to use big level spells you can use spell slots to do that when low level spells arent that useful
Rogue :
Sneak attack its just low damage the cunning strike is cool but it doesnt really benfit the rougue its more like a teamlay option which is cool but the rogue need to Do this.
Fix: when you use Sneak attack against a target roll an additional d6 for each condtion the target has (and that include surprise) . but change it to work only once until the start on your next turn and on opportunity attacks only.
why : Now the rogue can keep on with damage and can use thier own cool cunning strikes as a set up . and no more shenanigans like hasted hold a turn and attack with held action to keep up with damage.
Ranger:
If you track a creature for more than 10 minutes you can cast hunter's mark without expending a spell slot but cant transfer it to another creature. and Just make huntersmark not using concentration at level 5 or 11 at most. for me its 5 and level 11 is advantage on hunter mark target .
why : this makes the flavor and the narrative of the ranger JUST POP the one who understand and study their pray !!! its is beyond stupid to make your whole class stuff focus on a concentration spell . that just contradict with all your high level exciting spells . THIS IS BEYOND DUMB but making no concentration at level 1 is a ripe for multiclass abuse dips all the time. so At least its an insintive to stick with ranger and if you multiclassed with a martial you dont feel like you waisted your level 5 level (Each martial should have a thing on level 5)
First thing they should do with Hunter's Mark is to allow the damage dice to increase by one per level increase of the spell. Next they need to make the features happen earlier. 3rd to capstone should change to having the Slayer feature or lowering the crit range
Isn't the Ranger fantasy to play a mix of Aragorn and Legolas? Like to be a bad ass with fighting in the woods? Hunter's Mark is so far from my Ranger fantasy that it's hard to describe.
I honestly hope they expand the ways to get exhaustion like spells that have an option to increase in power for a level. Monsters that can impose exhaustion and other things.
Ted if you have tireless you never sleep again because you stay up you get 1 level of exhaustion then take a short rest for an hour and it leaves you now never need a watch again...
Maybe max Wis instead of Dex, take druidic warrior are your fighting style, use Firebolt reflavored as a bow with fire arrows, and Primal Savagery reflavored as an acid coated melee weapon of choice? That way you don't miss out on other Wis focused bonuses?
If you use the nick property you cant attack as a bonus action, as far as I read the rules
I mean, how hard would it have been to trial a ranger that was a "primal warlock?"
Beast master - chain invocations. Weapon master - blade invocations. Caster - tome equivalent. They already had all the mechanics.
Instead - a minimalist tweak.
The community should band together in response to this humiliation of a class that has struggled for the past ten years (both mechanically and in terms of flavor this "new" ranger sucks) and demand from WotC PUBLIC ACCESS to a REVISED RANGER pdf after they release the 2024 Player's Handbook. Every like on this comment represents support for this motion. I have been playing a ranger character for over a year now, and I was really hoping for so much more. They've proven they can improve classes when they want to with the monk, so why not make the ranger better? Spread the word, people.
If you want a ranger that works for 5E, grab Tales of the Valiant/Black Flag Roleplaying from Kobold Press. Their "Mystic Mark" is not a spell (although is limited by PB per long rest) and does not require concentration, and damage die auto increases as you gain ranger levels (at 6th, 13th and 17th). Level 1 rangers also get a choice of climb or swim speed equal to walking speed, advantage on tracking, and difficult terrain (non-magical or magical) does not reduce your speed. And while ToV/BF doesn't have weapon mastery, there are weapon options available to everyone (instead of causing damage, you can have a shortsword disarm your opponent or have longbow pin opponents in place), which rangers can utilize as a bonus action starting at level 2.
No mention of favored terrain or favored foe anywhere to be found.
I do not mind favored foe or terrain as long as they work more as flavor features and arent really counted into the power of the class.
Here's an easy solution to fix this problem. Keep everything they have just add these.
Hunter's Mark damage scales like the monk strike damage. At level 6 ,11, 17
Add to Level 9 - Augment mark - Once per short or long rest spend all your free uses of Hunter's mark to not concentrate on the spell. The spell duration only last one minute. Can use this ability if you spend a 2rd level spell slot.
Replace with this - At level 13 you have advantage on Con save to mataning concentration on spells.
Level 17 Primary evil awareness
Once per short or long rest spend all your free uses of Hunter's mark to mark a number of creatures equal to you wisdom modifier. The spell duration last for one minute. Can use this ability if you spend a 3rd level spell slot.
Replace - Level 20 Supreme foe slayer
You critical in a 19 or 20.
You can add your wisdom modifier to attack and damage to creatures affected by your Hunter's mark spell.
Bleed them out - Creatures Affected by hunter's mark take an extra die of damage every turn they are not healed while Affected by Hunter's mark
Beast Master requiring a BA every turn is annoying. You have this well trained and loyal companion that won't attack someone unless you keep yelling "get em!".
It's so stupid.
Unless you fall unconious then it can act completely on its own.
The Ranger is the class with such hardiness because of the vast distances they roam. We will make sure to wait till level 10 when over half the campaigns are over to reflect that. Reflecting a Ranger's hardiness is so easy it's obvious:
Level 2-Hardy Hunter-You gain resistance to one of the following natural damage types of your choice: acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison, or thunder. You may change the resistance whenever you gain a Ranger level.
Maybe the capstone should have been: Hunter's Mark does no longer require concentration for you.
I still think barbarians should've been the ones able to shake off exhaustion easily. That way the (old) berserker feature that imposed exhaustion would be far less penalizing as they level while also giving the barbarian base class some utility in exploration situations.
I have an even better capstone “Hunting Party”: 6(or WIS mod) creatures of your choice add an additional d6 damage to each weapon attack towards the Hunter’s Mark target.
So wait a second what if I just played a Ranger using everything from Tasha’s (including Primal Awareness which was free spells that they didn’t keep) and whatever subclass I want instead of this? Ah yes look at this brand new Ranger I made! Wait no! Don’t peak under the sheet and see that it’s 95% just Tasha’s features that aren’t optional now! Nooooooo!
In all seriousness this is ridiculously sad. Yes the things in Tasha’s made the Ranger better than what it used to be. The issue is that it didn’t do enough that you could say it’s on par with all the other good changes they made for these books. It seems like Ranger is still doomed to be struggling behind everyone else. Now sure they did give them some new things but not until about LV 13 with a tiny feature then nothing new or tweaked until LV 17 from there. It’s actually nuts that this is what they thought would be good enough for Ranger, but I guess we had to slack off or run out of time on something right? It just sucks that it had to be the class that could’ve really used the extra bump.
Just another note btw of how we are proverbially just burning Tasha’s on the pyre of no longer having relevance after we’ve drained everything we want from it (but for some reason not all of it). It’s so funny how people would attack it on release and they would say “well you don’t have to use it” not to mention the “it’s all optional” section in the beginning really hits different. I loved Tasha’s personally, but I don’t love just making it useless and reselling it to others.
I saw this a bit in the comments of the live stream... but making Hunter's Mark a cantrip (and use cantrip scaling) would solve a lot of the problems. Not all of them, but a lot. Having a limited amount that also didn't require concentration combined with the cantrip scaling might make it nearly fixed.
1:07:00 Nature invocations? I kind of did that with my homebrew version a few years back. Lots of little talents, pick 7 across the first 10 levels. Basically, this was an extension of Mike Mearls Ranger homebrew ideas when he was doing the Happy Hour. The feature developed from repeatedly revising the design of the Talents and Ranger non-combat features. Monster lore (2 creature types), no perception penalty from light obscurement (Arid Nomad), Night Vision, Fleet of Foot, Land's Stride, Favored Foe damage die increase against Monsters you have Lore on.
Every class got pretty good buffs, some more than others, but the ranger ended up having shit changes, even when they had a good idea at playtest 5.
Did they not make Hunters Mark scale with spell slots? So like from the UA its 3d6 with a 5th level spell slot, that all become d10's that you can attack with 2 times per turn probably at range at advantage to the marked target, and you dont drop concentration from being hit AND it lasts 1hr. I mean it an investment, but there is potential pretty high damage. Have to see the spells first though
Just make hunter's mark similar to vow of emnity, number of uses per day equal to your prof mod, bonus action, lasts a minute and when the target dies you can use a bonus action to transfer the mark to another target. Maybe do something cool like add wisdom mod to damage once you reach lvl 7 or 10
“…if this specialized hunters mark, or normal hunters mark is applied to a new target, the original effect ends”
Hunter's Mark better be getting some insane rework if this is supposed to be worth it.
@@danielpowell1671 don't hold your breath
@@NerdImmersion Don't worry I won't. :) I don't usually get responses from the channels I subscribed to this made my day! Have a happy 4th Ted!
I love the swarmkeeper , devestated it’s not there. Also I rarely used hunters mark so it’s a bummer they decided this was the defining feature…
I know I am late to this video but I'd love to hear your take on the TOV Ranger. My group is getting ready to start a TOV campaign and one player is a ranger who at first level has a fly, swim, and climb speed.
Also I love calling it the Le croix version of the ranger.
This is mostly Tasha's Ranger which is an improvement over 2014 Ranger, which since I've played Tasha's Ranger three times I'm happy with it. I don't even mind Hunters Mark being the main class feature, but 1d10 at level 20, and requiring concentration so I can't use my other cool spells that use concentration, I wish those had been improved. But other than that I think I'm happy.
How do they look at Hunter and decide to cut options? Just make the poor ones better...
OK it might just be because I'm in disbelief especially of the capstone. But... I would like to point out that the Hex spell in playtest 5 had scaling damage...
So i think that especially given it being so integral now Hunters mark damage inherently scales probably scales with spell slot use and might now be exclusive to Ranger again. In which case @ 20 maybe we going from 5d6 to 5d10?
They stressed several times that changes to spells will impact the game quite a bit. So it seems an odd possibility to ignore.
Hex and Hunter’s Mark in the playtest both scaled every two levels, so max of 3d6 as a level 5 spell. It does last 24 hours at that point.
There may be a way to get it higher than that through multiclassing, but I’m unsure.
That does mean 6d10 extra damage each turn as a Beast Master Ranger though, because it’s basically guaranteed damage. It does still require concentration though and it also requires you to feel rather one note if every Ranger casts only that spell and all your features are tied to this spell.
@keeganmbg6999 fair point! Just saying given they made this spell now core to the class it has to be retuned to be relevant throughout especially if they claiming they kept concentration to maintain balance. Hopefully it's mentioned in this spell preview
My take on fixing the ranger. Probably has problems but still better than as written.
At lvl 1 you learn HM, it doesn't count against the number of spells you know. You get a number of free uses of HM basd on PB and the free uses of HM are not consentraition. HM is a reaction for you and triggers when you land an attack.
Lvl 13 advantage on attacks with HM and HM die increases to 1d10
Lvl 17 *NATURES RESILIENCE" - when you take a long rest select one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, thunder, poison. You gain resistance to the chosen daage type. And you gain immunity to the poisoned condition. (Im not a designer but i feel this is both thematic and isnt too powerful. It also ISN'T tied to HM)
Lvl 20 HM die increases to 2d10 and you can add your wis mod to the damage of HM. Your Wis score increases by 4 to a max of 24.
I figured having 2 class features (lvl 1 and lvl 13) tied entierly to making HM better wasn't too ridiculous, especially since they are more potent buffs. Then the capstone at lvl 20 now gives HM one last (honestly minor) buff in ADDITION to boosting your spellcasting score. I could see an argument for making the 2d10 into 1d12 and moving it down to 17th level but idk. An alternative would be to add "when you use a higher level spell slot to cast HM the damage increases by 1d6 per slot level" and then ditch the leveled damage buffs altogether and maybe giving the lvl 13 ability something in addition to the advantage.
Hunter’s Mark giving advantage is kind of a nothingburger. Nature’s Veil, Vex, Prone and more can already get you advantage….
Lvl 14: Turn invisible- with a Bonus Action- to gain Advantage on your attack rolls!
Lvl 17: Use your lvl 1 spell- with a Bonus Action- to gain Advantage on your Attack rolls!
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
How did they not see this bad/redundant design?
If i had to guess, i dont think they bothered to playtest the Ranger AT ALL. It felt like it got "glossed over" in the Playtest response videos, as well.
All evidence points to the designers not caring about this class much at all. Which is sad. Because they SEEM to have gotten and understood feedback over 10 years indicating that this is a much loved class that has highly disappointed players, over & over.
I guess- like Thanos said- "I'll do it myself." (Time to homebrew a class (& subclasses) from scratch. Which is fine & fun, i guess. I just wish that the OFFICIAL class- that i PAID for- wasnt just a pile of dog shit.
I’ve generally liked the other class changes, but with the refusal to give Ranger a strong class identity AGAIN I am not sure I’m gonna buy the new books. I feel as tho they promised so much change to the Ranger, but we got tweaks and a double down on Hunter’s Mark
If hex mark is all about augmenting spell benefits. Hunter's mark should be all about benefits to the marshall and spell sides. Certain benefits to the marshall side could be like getting more than 1d6 like 2d6 or 3d6 before it becomes 1d10.
How doesn't the design team see that Hunters mark being concentration completely breaks the Rangers entire spell kit ???
So, I was seriously tempted to update to the new PHB, even after everything that has happened, just for all the general QoL improvements for a new group of players I was planning to run for. Being able to hand them a book that doesn't need a bunch of homebrew to work would have been amazing. Even Paladin's Smite being kind of a trap option use for a bonus action spell was made up for by the rest of the base class and its subclasses. And, yeah, as best as I can tell with the vagueness, even the Ranger subclasses were handled pretty well in a vacuum (except Beast, since it gets outclassed by Paladin Find Steed, and possibly even Pact of the Chain, not to mention the Summon spells, a permanent focus of your whole subclass is weaker).
...But this absolute bungling of the base Ranger class has completely soured me to the whole thing. There's no reason to buy a book that isn't definitive to the play experience I'd like my player's to have. Better to make my own document if it comes down to it. Even if nobody plays Ranger, I'd like it to not be a trap option for future investment's sake.
And this isn't even the first time they've pulled this garbage. The UA before Tasha's had non-concentration Hunter's Mark and they got rid of it for the published version, and now they're pulling the rug from under us again with this publishing. No way they listened the Ranger written feedback from playtest 6. You can't make something so central to the base class compete with half your spell list.
And then, even discounting that, the bonus action of Hunter's Mark not only interferes with the spell list, but that's also the resource of a lot of core subclass features (and if it's literally just back to 2014 Hunter's Mark, it's not just a bonus action to set up the spell, but for every time you need to target a new creature...how are you ever meant to command a Beast Companion?). Paladin avoided that, so you can't say they didn't have that in mind at all. It feels like they intentionally did this. Maybe some executive mandated it? Like they fired the feedback readers specifically assigned to the playtest 6 Ranger.
P.S. You seemed to be confused about Proficiency Bonus based features as if only Ranger was missing them. By the end of the playtest and all throughout these reveal videos, Scaling from PB has basically been relegated to Races/Species and level 1 feats only (initial character creation options), while class features try to all scale with class advancement or Ability Score.
its worse than 2014 hunters mark, they actually added a once per turn clause to it so you only get the bonus damage once now instead of on each of your attacks.
@@TrixyTrixter I've been hearing they might have reverted it to the same as 2014 instead of keeping the playtest version, but no hard confirmations either way I can point to.
Am I correct in saying that the Gloom Stalker Ranger is by far the most popular subclass of Ranger? Dread Ambusher, with its additional weapon attack is an integral part of that feature...So the "new and exciting" Gloom Stalker has a part of its best feature removed and they seem to see that as being acceptable. How do people with such a total lack of understanding secure the positions they do? And they seem to think that these changes will sell the new edition of the PHB...The mind boggles.
It's soooo long that I have to watch it on 2x speed!
Honestly I really liked the first version of it for one dnd. But because you could stack hunters mark they just nuked it.
Also, make the beastmaster not have to use their bonus action to use there pet. It's dumb AND stupid
Even have it be “you can have your pet attack as a bonus action. If the target is marked your companion can attack without using a bonus action.”
I think you can keep hunters mark as a bonus action but add a rider effect that varies with subclass. Example : when a beastmaster casts or moves hunters mark they can command their beast with the same BA. And get rid of concentration at 13
Would dispel .agic work against nature's veil?
Hunter's Mark should have added your wisdom modifier to either your damage or attack rolls against your target (at higher levels). It would be thematic to add wisdom to attack rolls, and your ranger can almost never miss. The ranger should have truesight against the marked target as well. The 6th level feature should have been wilderness guide or something that created an aura that gives your companions long-strider and gives the ranger the climbing and swimming speeds.
And if I’m not mistaken they also nerfed hunters mark by making it only count on your first hit