And this is why I was caught up in zen for so many years!. It's so spot on and without any kind of yada-yada. It really turns things upside down before you have time to shelter your molded ideas of how reality must be ..
You feel sudden love because you stepped out of the mind, into the heart. The next step is to give up personal feelings and step out of the heart, into the universe. To give up yourself entirely. Good luck.
Self is a product of thought and can only surface through words. And we are addicted to thought and language. Be silent and observe, you can prove it yourself.
Whether in delusion or realisation, and always jumping out free of delusion and realisation, the self is always completely expressed and manifest. I like the old Zen adage: Nothing is hidden.
By definition in my tradition, which is the Way of Adidam Ruchiradam, Consciousness is Prior to all points of view. It is also prior to waking, dreaming and deep sleep. It does not change. It is Reality Itself. To participate in That is Liberation. For me, it is realized by Grace and letting go of all separate self and egoity. I appreciated hearing about your process and that you feel you are part of the stream. Thank you.
Excellent talk. Consciousness is a conundrum. Would be interesting to hear Daizan in discussion with teachers in the Theravada Thai Forest tradition who talk about the One that Knows, ever present consciousness which is what we are (as opposed to sense consciousness, which is impermanent). Perhaps more like Bankei's Unborn.
Hi Daizan, thanks for sharing the comment about the 5 skandas, I would like to ask you one thing: what do you mean by consciousness? The normal state of personal consciousness? Do you also agree that consciousness can be personal or unconditioned? When you say to witness the impermanence of the 5 skandas, who is it that observes, that notices the impermanence? Is it also impermanent? Thanks
Who is it that observes… that notices… This question is key to unraveling your attachment to self. It causes you to question what you actually are, and why you choose to live the way you do. From a universal perspective ‘who?’ cannot be answered… there are no individuals. But from your perspective, there are many answers. Because you reside entirely in the mind. Judgement is the only experience you know. If you get tired of that, then you can find a way out.
Hello Mario, thank you for your message. In my experience that which notices impermanence also seems to be impermanent. So that would rule out unconditioned consciousness, I suppose. What are you finding? 🙏
I think that even though we lose awareness during sleep, our fundamental consciousness remains present, underlying all experiences, whether we are aware of them or not.
@@wthomas5697to be aware litterally means one is aware. To not be aware ltterally means one is not aware. At times aware at times not. The confusion is thinking awareness is a thing that exist rather than a state in which we can be in and then….not be
Hello Daizan. It is your student and former sangha member. I have listened to entire video and I think it is a very clear and skilful summary of no-self as presented in Heart Sutra. Because as you said the topic is “monumental” and so crucial in our lives I decided to comment and ask for your opinion, even though the UA-cam comment section is not very conducive to it. Anyway, in my understanding your view is very like inline with Heart Sutra exposition. You finish stating that we are not a thing but a process (which is right BTW), but you do not go any further than that. I am not sure if this is because the video was addressed to general audience and/or the time of such videos is too limited for too long and nuanced expositions or is it because the view as understood and presented by you ends here. If this is the case I would like to mention that there were numerous Buddhist schools (not just Advaita Vedanta) that had much more nuanced view on that matter. They agreed with the view presented here but they recognized that there actually is Self which is not impermanent and codependent, but of course it is not that we usually think of it. This elusive Self has been studied and described for centuries, especially in Tibetan Buddhism, where it is called a Base, a Ground, Buddha Mind, Rigpa, Buddha Nature and so on. And I would dare to say that Bankei (I will be eternally grateful to you for introducing him to me), also alluded to such self-calling it “unborn”. I also am convinced that if one studies Shobogenzo carefully he will see that Dogen alludes to It thought not mentioning this explicitly. Such a view goes not only much further than presented here, but offers a very beautiful and sweet alternative that has been directly experienced if pointed skilfully by a Master. I just think it would be said to miss on this “revelation”…. Dear Daizan, given the importance of the topic, would you like to comment on it? And to everybody reading this comment, I would wholeheartedly like to recommend the book called “Progressive Stages of Meditation on Emptiness” by Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche. This is the most sophisticated practical book on emptiness and no-self I ever came across. The view presented there starts the view like presented in this video, but then progressively adds more and more nuance going far beyond the self as a "process"
Your religious analysis is keeping you trapped in the mind. If you want freedom, you must embrace stupidity. Maybe you prefer being intelligent and residing in a whirlwind of thoughts. Its your choice.
Hello Daruman, I don't remember a Zenways member with that name. Hope you're doing well. Yes I think it would have been a bit over-ambitious to nuance this any further. Perhaps the book you're suggesting would be of value 🙏
Hello Daruman, I don't remember a Zenways member with that name. Hope you're doing well. Yes I think it would have been a bit over-ambitious to nuance this any further. Perhaps the book you're suggesting would be of value 🙏
@Zenways_zen Hello Daizan. Daruman is a UA-cam nickname. My name is Tom, I had also several one to one sessions with Mark, who was kind enough to spend time on me. I have a debt to both of you, I only left the Sangha because I decided to focus exclusively on Mahamudra teaching due to the level of debth they offer (mostly in their understanding of Emptiness). The book is extraordinary. It leads the reader through more and more nuanced stages in the development of an individual's understanding of emptiness. First stage is called the Shravaka state, and it is also famously called the first turn of the wheel of Dharma. This is the view as presented in your video. Then, there are four more stages that progress from a gross recognition to increasingly subtle levels of understanding. Very highly recommended - to Zen people as well, as I think they usually tend to stop on the first stage - I am not sure about this, though :-).... For me, it has been a game changer....
There seems to be a difference between having no self at all, and entering the state of 'no-self' in which one's Buddha Nature perceives the _suchness_ of everything just as it is.
All perceived differences in anything are judgements of the mind. They are only as real as you choose to make them. If you truly want freedom from yourself, its yours. Just give up your struggle and stop being you.
Part 2 (deep sleep)...So the 'I-body-mind' comes and goes, and this is seen by 'counsciousness', although it would be better to just call it the subject. This subject registers all 3 states of waking, dreaming, deep sleep. But it's not the end, because there is still this contrast, this duality, this subject-object relationship. This is the last which has to fall, then, what remains in this zeroness of no subject, no object ist '"the self", or the "no-self"....it's one and the same. Pura Vida!
The Buddha spoke about 4 levels of enlightenment: entering the stream, lessening the forces of greed & hate (once-returner), eradicating the forces of greed and hate (non-returner), and eradicating all delusion (arahant). So after seeing through the delusion of the self and entering the stream, then comes the gradual task of loosening the bonds of want and aversion.
Regarding "faith that consciousness is also there in deep sleep" - that's completely absurd. It's actually easy to realize that even in deep sleep consciousness is happy and running. See it like this: If there was no consciousness in deep sleep, you would simply become more and more tired lying in bed, then immediately dream, and wake up. But it's not like that, we all KNOW CLEARLY there was also something else than just dream and waking up. It has the quality of walking into a dark room and saying "I see nothing". Consciousness is there to witness the absence of the 'I-body-mind", the appearance of a dream, the waking up.
To let go of our 'self' is a scary business - probably the most scary business in town. For a start - if I'm not there to enjoy enlightenment, who is? It's one of those cosmic jokes - you have to be there to appreciate it (except that you're not). In more practical terms - if I'm not there, who (or what) will feed the cats? The bad news is - the pool has no water. The good news is - the pool has no bottom.
Your comment reveals how close you are to taking that rare leap. Your self is the cause of all your problems, your suffering, your struggle… endless thoughts and feelings and judgements… But, you don’t want to abandon your self…because you’re afraid of death, and the people and pets who will suffer without you. Ultimately, you will only take that leap when you realise that you cannot win at life. That your personal story and thoughts and feelings are just stupid delusions, and your pursuit of happiness will never end, and only results in death of self anyway. Still it takes courage to give up your life. But when you see your individual ‘life’ is just a hamster wheel of anxiety… and that the true experience of life is outside the prison walls of your mind and heart… then you will make that leap, regardless of whether ‘you’ live or die.
When you give up the self (“experiencing ‘no-self”’ as you said) you dont really have a self because you dont identify with any individual person or thing. You see your human self just like youre watching an animal. It does what it does. You dont feel shame or pride for its actions. You don’t fear on its behalf. If it succeeds, you feel its joy, if it suffers, you feel its pain. But you are not attached to it, you dont reside in its mind or emotions. You feel exactly the same about all the other creatures you witness, and the universe as a whole (flowing with abundance, yet empty of matter - an eternal flow of energy - you know it is ‘you’ just as much as any person).
This makes for a wonderful example of where all the heavy rhetoric is lined up to support each of their respective views (Brahman vs Sunyata). But in the end, they converge on such similar theories and practices that the distinction between them comes to appear insubstantial.
Thank you! I love the way Master Daizen explains wisdom, the mode of the presentation is so clear.I am truly grateful.
You're very welcome, Tibor 🙏
And this is why I was caught up in zen for so many years!. It's so spot on and without any kind of yada-yada. It really turns things upside down before you have time to shelter your molded ideas of how reality must be ..
🙏🏻
such a great analogy with the arm. my respect to youwards.
Thank you Alexander 🙏🏻
Loved this daizan thank you. I know when i’ve entered the stream because i just feel love and it’s unshakable
You feel sudden love because you stepped out of the mind, into the heart.
The next step is to give up personal feelings and step out of the heart, into the universe. To give up yourself entirely. Good luck.
Thank you, Dawn. So glad you could be with us on the yoga training. 🙏
Self is a product of thought and can only surface through words. And we are addicted to thought and language. Be silent and observe, you can prove it yourself.
🙏
Whether in delusion or realisation, and always jumping out free of delusion and realisation, the self is always completely expressed and manifest.
I like the old Zen adage: Nothing is hidden.
Thank you, Harry. Nothing is hidden 🙏
thank you Daizan, a very clear explanation
You're very welcome, Craig 🙏
By definition in my tradition, which is the Way of Adidam Ruchiradam, Consciousness is Prior to all points of view. It is also prior to waking, dreaming and deep sleep. It does not change. It is Reality Itself. To participate in That is Liberation. For me, it is realized by Grace and letting go of all separate self and egoity.
I appreciated hearing about your process and that you feel you are part of the stream. Thank you.
Thank you for your message, Tim. I appreciate your laying that out. 🙏
Excellent talk. Consciousness is a conundrum. Would be interesting to hear Daizan in discussion with teachers in the Theravada Thai Forest tradition who talk about the One that Knows, ever present consciousness which is what we are (as opposed to sense consciousness, which is impermanent). Perhaps more like Bankei's Unborn.
Thank you John. Sounds good to me 🙏
Self it is not the thing it is a combination of various processes. Even the rock cycle is a series of processes.
🙏
There is a self and there is not a self. Sorted
You cant think your way out of your mind.
Thankyou, Daizan 🙏
You're welcome Martin. Hope you're doing well 🙏
Hi Daizan, thanks for sharing the comment about the 5 skandas, I would like to ask you one thing: what do you mean by consciousness? The normal state of personal consciousness? Do you also agree that consciousness can be personal or unconditioned? When you say to witness the impermanence of the 5 skandas, who is it that observes, that notices the impermanence? Is it also impermanent? Thanks
Who is it that observes… that notices…
This question is key to unraveling your attachment to self. It causes you to question what you actually are, and why you choose to live the way you do.
From a universal perspective ‘who?’ cannot be answered… there are no individuals.
But from your perspective, there are many answers. Because you reside entirely in the mind. Judgement is the only experience you know. If you get tired of that, then you can find a way out.
Hello Mario, thank you for your message. In my experience that which notices impermanence also seems to be impermanent. So that would rule out unconditioned consciousness, I suppose. What are you finding? 🙏
I think that even though we lose awareness during sleep, our fundamental consciousness remains present, underlying all experiences, whether we are aware of them or not.
No it doesn't.
@@wthomas5697to be aware litterally means one is aware. To not be aware ltterally means one is not aware. At times aware at times not. The confusion is thinking awareness is a thing that exist rather than a state in which we can be in and then….not be
Maybe, but how would we know?
Have you looked into the Anattalakkhaṇa Sutta, Martin? 🙏
@@user-hb5qs7sy2v Consciousness, or awareness, is brain and nervous system activity. Pretty simple really. On or off.
Wonderful!
You're very welcome 🙏
Hello Daizan. It is your student and former sangha member. I have listened to entire video and I think it is a very clear and skilful summary of no-self as presented in Heart Sutra. Because as you said the topic is “monumental” and so crucial in our lives I decided to comment and ask for your opinion, even though the UA-cam comment section is not very conducive to it. Anyway, in my understanding your view is very like inline with Heart Sutra exposition. You finish stating that we are not a thing but a process (which is right BTW), but you do not go any further than that. I am not sure if this is because the video was addressed to general audience and/or the time of such videos is too limited for too long and nuanced expositions or is it because the view as understood and presented by you ends here. If this is the case I would like to mention that there were numerous Buddhist schools (not just Advaita Vedanta) that had much more nuanced view on that matter. They agreed with the view presented here but they recognized that there actually is Self which is not impermanent and codependent, but of course it is not that we usually think of it. This elusive Self has been studied and described for centuries, especially in Tibetan Buddhism, where it is called a Base, a Ground, Buddha Mind, Rigpa, Buddha Nature and so on. And I would dare to say that Bankei (I will be eternally grateful to you for introducing him to me), also alluded to such self-calling it “unborn”. I also am convinced that if one studies Shobogenzo carefully he will see that Dogen alludes to It thought not mentioning this explicitly. Such a view goes not only much further than presented here, but offers a very beautiful and sweet alternative that has been directly experienced if pointed skilfully by a Master. I just think it would be said to miss on this “revelation”….
Dear Daizan, given the importance of the topic, would you like to comment on it? And to everybody reading this comment, I would wholeheartedly like to recommend the book called “Progressive Stages of Meditation on Emptiness” by Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche. This is the most sophisticated practical book on emptiness and no-self I ever came across. The view presented there starts the view like presented in this video, but then progressively adds more and more nuance going far beyond the self as a "process"
Your religious analysis is keeping you trapped in the mind. If you want freedom, you must embrace stupidity.
Maybe you prefer being intelligent and residing in a whirlwind of thoughts. Its your choice.
Hello Daruman, I don't remember a Zenways member with that name. Hope you're doing well. Yes I think it would have been a bit over-ambitious to nuance this any further. Perhaps the book you're suggesting would be of value 🙏
Hello Daruman, I don't remember a Zenways member with that name. Hope you're doing well. Yes I think it would have been a bit over-ambitious to nuance this any further. Perhaps the book you're suggesting would be of value 🙏
Thank you for your message. Great advice 🙏
@Zenways_zen Hello Daizan. Daruman is a UA-cam nickname. My name is Tom, I had also several one to one sessions with Mark, who was kind enough to spend time on me. I have a debt to both of you, I only left the Sangha because I decided to focus exclusively on Mahamudra teaching due to the level of debth they offer (mostly in their understanding of Emptiness). The book is extraordinary. It leads the reader through more and more nuanced stages in the development of an individual's understanding of emptiness. First stage is called the Shravaka state, and it is also famously called the first turn of the wheel of Dharma. This is the view as presented in your video. Then, there are four more stages that progress from a gross recognition to increasingly subtle levels of understanding. Very highly recommended - to Zen people as well, as I think they usually tend to stop on the first stage - I am not sure about this, though :-).... For me, it has been a game changer....
think you are spot on...at least from my experience...even at some point there is no witness, not seperation...just the process occuring naturally
Thank you, Siddhartha 🙏
There seems to be a difference between having no self at all, and entering the state of 'no-self' in which one's Buddha Nature perceives the _suchness_ of everything just as it is.
All perceived differences in anything are judgements of the mind. They are only as real as you choose to make them.
If you truly want freedom from yourself, its yours. Just give up your struggle and stop being you.
Only one mu in the whole cosmos 🧘🏻♂️🙏🏻
🙏
Part 2 (deep sleep)...So the 'I-body-mind' comes and goes, and this is seen by 'counsciousness', although it would be better to just call it the subject. This subject registers all 3 states of waking, dreaming, deep sleep. But it's not the end, because there is still this contrast, this duality, this subject-object relationship. This is the last which has to fall, then, what remains in this zeroness of no subject, no object ist '"the self", or the "no-self"....it's one and the same. Pura Vida!
Which book did you read all that in ?
What should one focus on after entering the stream?
The Buddha spoke about 4 levels of enlightenment: entering the stream, lessening the forces of greed & hate (once-returner), eradicating the forces of greed and hate (non-returner), and eradicating all delusion (arahant). So after seeing through the delusion of the self and entering the stream, then comes the gradual task of loosening the bonds of want and aversion.
@ thanks. If it is not too much trouble: what is all delusion outside the delusion of separate self, greed and hate?
Who's speaking in the video?
Solvitur ambulando.
Exactly 🙏🏻
Regarding "faith that consciousness is also there in deep sleep" - that's completely absurd. It's actually easy to realize that even in deep sleep consciousness is happy and running. See it like this: If there was no consciousness in deep sleep, you would simply become more and more tired lying in bed, then immediately dream, and wake up. But it's not like that, we all KNOW CLEARLY there was also something else than just dream and waking up. It has the quality of walking into a dark room and saying "I see nothing". Consciousness is there to witness the absence of the 'I-body-mind", the appearance of a dream, the waking up.
🙏
To let go of our 'self' is a scary business - probably the most scary business in town. For a start - if I'm not there to enjoy enlightenment, who is? It's one of those cosmic jokes - you have to be there to appreciate it (except that you're not). In more practical terms - if I'm not there, who (or what) will feed the cats? The bad news is - the pool has no water. The good news is - the pool has no bottom.
Your comment reveals how close you are to taking that rare leap.
Your self is the cause of all your problems, your suffering, your struggle… endless thoughts and feelings and judgements…
But, you don’t want to abandon your self…because you’re afraid of death, and the people and pets who will suffer without you.
Ultimately, you will only take that leap when you realise that you cannot win at life. That your personal story and thoughts and feelings are just stupid delusions, and your pursuit of happiness will never end, and only results in death of self anyway.
Still it takes courage to give up your life. But when you see your individual ‘life’ is just a hamster wheel of anxiety… and that the true experience of life is outside the prison walls of your mind and heart… then you will make that leap, regardless of whether ‘you’ live or die.
Half way thru this. Is he going to answer the question?
Ok, finished it and no answer. As usual. Seems I have to examine it for mySelf. Which kind of presupposes that I have a Self.
You might find value in the Anattalakkhaṇa Sutta
I think the ultimate question is how can one experience "non-self" since it would be a self experiencing "no-self".
When you give up the self (“experiencing ‘no-self”’ as you said) you dont really have a self because you dont identify with any individual person or thing. You see your human self just like youre watching an animal. It does what it does. You dont feel shame or pride for its actions. You don’t fear on its behalf. If it succeeds, you feel its joy, if it suffers, you feel its pain. But you are not attached to it, you dont reside in its mind or emotions. You feel exactly the same about all the other creatures you witness, and the universe as a whole (flowing with abundance, yet empty of matter - an eternal flow of energy - you know it is ‘you’ just as much as any person).
The advaitic self, and the buddhist non-self is one and the same. I merges into 'one', or rather, zero.
It is similar but not the same. The book on progressive stages of emptiness elaborates that
This makes for a wonderful example of where all the heavy rhetoric is lined up to support each of their respective views (Brahman vs Sunyata). But in the end, they converge on such similar theories and practices that the distinction between them comes to appear insubstantial.
Makes sense. Kind of like form is emptiness, emptiness is form. (Autofill doesn't recognize these things. 😂)
If you say "there is a self", you assert.
If you say "there is no self", you deny.
Beyond assertion and denial, what is this "self"...
It can't be spoken of ❤