Fascinating interview... and another Protestant here who learned a few things. One nitpicking comment... as much as possible, if guests could get a little closer to the mic, it really helps to balance the conversation. A great thought often started out strong and then solt if fudded owd oh fohgus...
Happy to be wrong about universalism? I found that and interesting statement. Thank you, this interview was interesting and helped me to think through this important issue.
This video had more advertising than any other I have seen in a long time. The subject matter is great, but all the ads made it somewhat intolerable. Surely you have at least some control over this.
The pastor who is doing the interview is single, I don't see a wedding ring? What would you say (totally off the subject) to a man that is single / divorced not my choice (wife left), and does not seem to have the gift Paul speaks about in 1 Cor. 7? Also having a very difficult time finding a woman who appears to love God more than this temporary world. Thanks
I am more convinced than ever that upon death those in Christ descend to rest in Abraham's Bosom (aka Paradise), where they await the Resurrection. Here in this place, they are not separated from the LORD, but as the Psalmist says, "if I make my bed in Sheol, You are there." And there, I believe that we undergo further Sanctification in preparation of the Resurrection, and the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth. This cleansing is similar (I think) to that held by C.S. Lewis, and those in the Eastern Church, and not a place of satisfaction, or paying for one's sins, as taught by the Roman Church. And so in that sense, I guess it could be said that I hold to a sort of "Protestant view of Purgatory", though I do not like that language. Although, in the case of Martyrs, I hold to the possibility, that they alone might ascend straight to Heaven, where they await the Resurrection beneath the altar of the LORD, as we read in Revelation 6:9 "And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld." Concerning the Thief on the Cross. We know from Scripture, that Jesus did not go straight to Heaven when He died, but rather He descended into Sheol, to the place called Paradise, aka Abraham's Bosom. And so when He said to the Thief, "Today you'll be with Me in Paradise." He spoke not of Heaven, but of that place in Sheol. We know this both from the words of the Lord, after His resurrection, when He says to Mary, "Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’" and also from the Creed which tells us, "He descended into Hades." And just to touch on hell briefly, I would love to know what Jerry would think about this possibility, that is, that those in Hell (through much torment) could be brought to a place where they, as though ruled by a rod of iron, cease from their sin to serve God. Not like the Saints who are born again as sons, and partake of the Divine Nature, having been sanctified by the Spirit. But rather, as mere servants, who whilst they are obedient, the flames of hell and made tolerable (not so, as to be said that they have rest, but simply that they will find _some_ relief). However, if they stray at all to the left or the right, their torment would increase with their error. To me, it seems like such a view could deal with the Annihilationists' objection that Eternal Conscious Torment results in Sin never being fully defeated. Whilst affirming Eternal Conscious Torment, and denying both Annihilationism and Universalism, in a way that will eventually bring an end to sin forever. I'm not in any way married to this idea, but it is something I have thought about from time to time.
My understanding of Scripture on these issues is as follows: 1. Both the righteous and the wicked experience complete unconsciousness after death. It it like sleep. 2. At Christ’s return, the dead in Christ are raised incorruptible, and the wicked are completely destroyed in the lake of fire in the presence of Christ and his saints. They are not tormented forever, but cease to exist. 3. Purgatory, nope sorry. You have to make your choice while you live on this earth. Prevenient Grace covers people who did not have the ability to learn about the Gospel.
The distinction between purgatory as sanctification vs satisfaction was new to me...interesting.
Yep. That definitely reframes the entire concept.
Fascinating! Great interview!
Thanks for watching. It was great fun to have this conversation. I learned a lot!
Fascinating interview... and another Protestant here who learned a few things. One nitpicking comment... as much as possible, if guests could get a little closer to the mic, it really helps to balance the conversation. A great thought often started out strong and then solt if fudded owd oh fohgus...
Thanks for watching and for the tip.
Good video, thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Happy to be wrong about universalism? I found that and interesting statement. Thank you, this interview was interesting and helped me to think through this important issue.
This video had more advertising than any other I have seen in a long time. The subject matter is great, but all the ads made it somewhat intolerable. Surely you have at least some control over this.
The pastor who is doing the interview is single, I don't see a wedding ring? What would you say (totally off the subject) to a man that is single / divorced not my choice (wife left), and does not seem to have the gift Paul speaks about in 1 Cor. 7? Also having a very difficult time finding a woman who appears to love God more than this temporary world. Thanks
Per 1 Cor.15 the it that is sown is the it that shall be raised. Romans8:23
I am more convinced than ever that upon death those in Christ descend to rest in Abraham's Bosom (aka Paradise), where they await the Resurrection. Here in this place, they are not separated from the LORD, but as the Psalmist says, "if I make my bed in Sheol, You are there."
And there, I believe that we undergo further Sanctification in preparation of the Resurrection, and the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth. This cleansing is similar (I think) to that held by C.S. Lewis, and those in the Eastern Church, and not a place of satisfaction, or paying for one's sins, as taught by the Roman Church.
And so in that sense, I guess it could be said that I hold to a sort of "Protestant view of Purgatory", though I do not like that language.
Although, in the case of Martyrs, I hold to the possibility, that they alone might ascend straight to Heaven, where they await the Resurrection beneath the altar of the LORD, as we read in Revelation 6:9 "And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld."
Concerning the Thief on the Cross. We know from Scripture, that Jesus did not go straight to Heaven when He died, but rather He descended into Sheol, to the place called Paradise, aka Abraham's Bosom. And so when He said to the Thief, "Today you'll be with Me in Paradise." He spoke not of Heaven, but of that place in Sheol. We know this both from the words of the Lord, after His resurrection, when He says to Mary, "Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’" and also from the Creed which tells us, "He descended into Hades."
And just to touch on hell briefly, I would love to know what Jerry would think about this possibility, that is, that those in Hell (through much torment) could be brought to a place where they, as though ruled by a rod of iron, cease from their sin to serve God. Not like the Saints who are born again as sons, and partake of the Divine Nature, having been sanctified by the Spirit. But rather, as mere servants, who whilst they are obedient, the flames of hell and made tolerable (not so, as to be said that they have rest, but simply that they will find _some_ relief). However, if they stray at all to the left or the right, their torment would increase with their error. To me, it seems like such a view could deal with the Annihilationists' objection that Eternal Conscious Torment results in Sin never being fully defeated. Whilst affirming Eternal Conscious Torment, and denying both Annihilationism and Universalism, in a way that will eventually bring an end to sin forever. I'm not in any way married to this idea, but it is something I have thought about from time to time.
"I wish Universalism were true", but unfortunately I'm sure God is not as loving and merciful as me.
He is good and wise and just ... and He lovingly throws unbelievers into Hell because He won't force them, against their will, to be with Him.
My understanding of Scripture on these issues is as follows:
1. Both the righteous and the wicked experience complete unconsciousness after death. It it like sleep.
2. At Christ’s return, the dead in Christ are raised incorruptible, and the wicked are completely destroyed in the lake of fire in the presence of Christ and his saints. They are not tormented forever, but cease to exist.
3. Purgatory, nope sorry. You have to make your choice while you live on this earth. Prevenient Grace covers people who did not have the ability to learn about the Gospel.
Congratz. You're Wrong!
Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?