If you want to keep up with the updated spreadsheet of Beta Raid Testing here's the link; docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xlsweYp1Jz086WRskFAj8dmiXFXIgsxR8wThHxAUYSc/edit?gid=0#gid=0 Shoutout to Champs for organizing it!
bro just play mage, stop messing around with a garbage class lol, its been 20 years bro. Don't believe me? WoW came out in 2004. What year is it now? Thats right 2024, thats 20 years kiddos. Shaman been garbage for 20 years, just play mage, they've always been great!
Ignoring the numerical issues that can be fixed fast, rogues are in a bad state. Between hero talents (that are inoffensive at best and working against the base flow of the spec at worst) and spec changes, there is no way I could go into TWW maining rogue atm.
lol i was a rogue main DF season 1 and realized it was bad they aren't the same anymore look at there hero talents utterly fucking stupid garbage talents they dont wanna over tune it
Yall are going to get buffed, on betas the melee sometimes do look like shit while casters are amazing. There's no way we start next expac with afflic and fire being the best specs in the game.
Fix Farseer for Ele with the most minimal effort. - Ancestors last 10sec baseline (instead of 6sec) - Ancestors grant 5% haste while up - The capstone talent summons two ancestors for 20sec.
@IZEN Outlaw feels terrible, even when gearing/gemming for HASTE - they completely gutted the specc. S3 Outlaw rogue was the most fun version EVER and they decided to change it - i dont get it.
The fucking rogue talents DONT EVEN WORK. How does a class who ONLY does damage, have awful damage?? Looks like the entire world is rerolling monk and fire mage
Yeah, I'm a Feral main and I never complain if a rogue, mage or warlock for example outclasses me, because just like you said, a true damage dealer shouldn't be doing awful damage, ever.
Nah it's not gonna be like the Ret reroll situation. Fire mage is a spec that is very difficult to play so I suspect most people will try rerolling and quit when they still do no damage.
Just to clarify, Izen.. When you say Elemental is "working"... its a DPS loss to cast Tempest and multiple points in the Stormnbringer tree does not work. Tempest also does not have any synergy with the spec and does not any benefit from haste (not even cast speed). So no. Elemental is not working. Both Hero trees were "implemented" and left as is. Side note: Elemental has not had one (Damage based) tuning or talent change adjustment since 28/07/2023 (S3 DF) and zero changes in the Alpha or Beta of TWW.
@@Caffrof091 I mean… I’m a member of the SMF club that wishes Annihilator would come back because spamming Raging Blow until it stops resetting feels dumb (thank god Bloodthirst hits hard) buuuut yeah we definitely need a boost somewhere 😂 Mountain Thane feels good to play, which I suppose is the only real takeaway here that matters- but those are rookie numbers 😅 we gotta pump those things up!
@@Gumblethebear The entire class tree was shuffled, as well as a massive rotational change with Pulsar being removed. Its as much a rework as Mage in 11.0. Idk how else you'd wanna define rework, when the entire way of playing the spec has been altered.
@@San4311 So a bunch of nerfs? The class tree has only gotten worse and more difficult to use with LESS value (which is saying alot). It just got nerfed again this week. Balance was changed, but almost entirely for the worse. Balance still take basically the same talents, but their damage was so bad they required GIANT buffs this week (thankful for that), but their spec is still now insanely boring and their hero talents suck. Balance didn't NEED a rework, and the talent shuffle they got doesn't count as one. They don't play any differently, outside of "now you don't get pulsar and do way less damage". What really needs it is bear, and to a lesser extent cat. Bear they have done nothing with, and cat they started doing a rework and just stopped mid-effort. They were going to take away the spammy and make feral dots count, then they didn't follow through on the dots, or the talents to support them. Druid would be better if they literally just said "you're keeping your DF trees, no changes outside of adding some of the most boring hero talents ever", for every single spec (save MAYBE Resto.... depends on if you like Flourish and ramp healing) Druid needs a ton of work.
TBF in fire's case, that one fight it seems to be overperforming is almost a best case scenario fire fight, fire is still overtuned but not as much as that fight would indicate
We're still weeks away from tuning passes on the beta. Numbers will change and change drastically. It's this way everytime. Numbers are the last thing Blizzard touches in the beta. The main attention is on if the game is playable.
Let´s let warriors and rogues rest in piece. There is no place for them in mondern wow. And yes, I am a warrior in DF, but will choose a different class for TWW.
@@vondry87 they really just need to combine some rogue / war skills, turn quite a few hotkeys into quite a few less. then give them 6 yards on melee like ret.
@@-.-Monster It´s hard to imagine a situation where you would pick a warrior or rogue. Hybrid classes are doing more damage than pure dmg classes like warrior and rogue + offer so much utility on top of that. And yes extended range helps a lot, it seems like most classes except paladin will lose that in TWW and that´s why I will probably main paladin. It´s just so mucb better than warrior and is so much easier to play as a bonus.
Take this all with grain of salt people cause at the end of the day the purpose of this game is to enjoy and you are most likely to perform better with a spec you like than a spec you are forced to play due to being meta.
well my elemental shaman Kins, what are yall rerolling to since blizzard clearly doesn't give AF about us anymore? im thinking Mage or lock since they always get the most love,.
I dont understand how they are always so far off in testing with balancing classes. Did they even try? This looks like absolute ass for half the classes/specs.
lol people are actually looking at DPS meters? The final traits for Trickster and Dark Ranger don’t even work. In terms of class balance this doesn’t feel the same as Dragonflight was at this point in the Beta. Deathstalker is hilariously poorly designed (although granted that might not change). Hellcaller Destro and Conduit Monks are hilariously overtuned because someone thinks free ritual procs and a channel that does obscene damage are good ideas. And that’s just the very basic problems. Tuning itself hasn’t even been done once. They toned down some highly over performing talents but only so they can better balance the spec when they perform the first round of balancing. Balancing rounds still haven’t happened yet.
seriously. its tough being a rogue sometimes. the ups and downs since i started playing at launch. can we just be consistent for once. lol not asking to be top dog all the time, but whew.. when we get the nerf hammer... dayum we get hit hard with it.
I just want all three specs to be similar in dps and not feel like I have to be a specific spec to get into raids or high keys. I usually go for a 2500-3000 rating each season in m+, but it has been a chore these past few seasons. I’m not a fan of outlaw since meth is illegal here and you need some to keep up with the buttons. Sin is my love and well I just don’t play rogue at all anymore as sin is annoying for everyone in m+ since it requires you yo stealth somehow between pulls when the tanks are chain pulling and not letting combat drop. They give us an amazing aoe talent but then lock it behind stealth while encouraging not dropping combat on tanks and healers talents. It’s beyond annoying to me.
Some specs feels like ass to play regardless of how good the numbers are. Elemental Shaman and Havoc Demon hunter comes to mind immedietly after the last weeks testng. There a few others aswell with dysfunctional hero talents and gameplay that just feels OFF. Beast Mastery hunters AOE is another one with Beast cleave only lasting 6 seconds and the talent in pack leader to extend the duration dont work currently so having to use every 3rd global on multi shot for AoE feels.... blizzards favorite word: CLUNKY Do they swap dev teams every expansion or what? because the same mistakes just keeps coming back but for different specs. The clunk is real.
I don't care that fire mage is top dps but i fking love it u can finally drop that shitty sunkings blessing talent. I hated it since it was a lego in shadowlands.
Love how warriors get shafted again and ret paladins get the good treatment. Feels so brain dead to play Ret and just hit whatever skills flash on my screen and going unga bunga and just do more damage than a top tier warrior and have 6yd melee range. Fury warrior is also unga bunga in a sense and has more APM but I main Arms and I enjoy playing Fury over Ret. Only thing that keeps Warriors in raids is battle shout and rallying cry.
Warri is also not a class where you have to think a lot I would say. You also hit what flashes. As paladin you can also heal others and shit which makes it more brainiac to me actually. But I love warri also.
@@damian02161986I care since he is right, if anyone is in a heroic progging guild it's just a skill issue and mythic raiders do their own testing and form which classes to bring own their own
So what's the actual point of this video? There's been 0 tuning and more than 2 months till expand launches. We test bosses - not revewing whos buttons hit harder. Utterly pointless video.
except... they wont. They are the god child of blizzard since 2004. It is easier to count when mages werent meta, instead of when they were. There are specs where you dont even need one finger to count how often they have been meta.
If you want to keep up with the updated spreadsheet of Beta Raid Testing here's the link;
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xlsweYp1Jz086WRskFAj8dmiXFXIgsxR8wThHxAUYSc/edit?gid=0#gid=0
Shoutout to Champs for organizing it!
The sheet doesnt open for me
I don’t even care, im done chasing the meta. It changes every season. I’m going to play what I like
good self love realization right there
Meta changes atleast 3 times every season so you are gucci, stick with what you enjoy.
true chad, as anyone should be
you are most likely to perform better with a spec you like than a spec you are forced to play due to being meta.
You can enjoy it only on Normal and Heroic mode , except that youre not gonna get invited into Mythic guilds or Mythic+ if youre not Meta
WOW! Fire mage at the top? That never happens every expansion when other classes get insta-nerfed.
when was the last time fire good at raid ?
cry more, you have no idea what you are talking about
@@awtysm2207 LOL
@@sethgrieves4831 when was the last time fire mage was at the top of the raid you monkey LOL KEKW LOL
@@awtysm2207delusional mage was meta in m+ kid in raid he was average at best
Elemental looking right on track. Still wouldn't be surprised if they get nerfed right at the end of beta as they usually always get.
RIP
bro just play mage, stop messing around with a garbage class lol, its been 20 years bro. Don't believe me? WoW came out in 2004. What year is it now? Thats right 2024, thats 20 years kiddos. Shaman been garbage for 20 years, just play mage, they've always been great!
@@JKane_88 Down with Mages, suck my ass.
@@JKane_88 But wolf form man.
And lightning effects... pew
pewpew
@@JKane_88 Was gonna tell you to shut up but my god youre right.
Ignoring the numerical issues that can be fixed fast, rogues are in a bad state.
Between hero talents (that are inoffensive at best and working against the base flow of the spec at worst) and spec changes, there is no way I could go into TWW maining rogue atm.
then dont
This contributed to the conversation.
lol i was a rogue main DF season 1 and realized it was bad they aren't the same anymore look at there hero talents utterly fucking stupid garbage talents they dont wanna over tune it
Yall are going to get buffed, on betas the melee sometimes do look like shit while casters are amazing. There's no way we start next expac with afflic and fire being the best specs in the game.
@@alienzm5212bro, why comment? Go away.
Holy shit, did they actually not put feral in the bottom 5? Is feral actually gonna be decent?
Fix Farseer for Ele with the most minimal effort.
- Ancestors last 10sec baseline (instead of 6sec)
- Ancestors grant 5% haste while up
- The capstone talent summons two ancestors for 20sec.
@IZEN Outlaw feels terrible, even when gearing/gemming for HASTE - they completely gutted the specc. S3 Outlaw rogue was the most fun version EVER and they decided to change it - i dont get it.
The fucking rogue talents DONT EVEN WORK. How does a class who ONLY does damage, have awful damage?? Looks like the entire world is rerolling monk and fire mage
Yeah, I'm a Feral main and I never complain if a rogue, mage or warlock for example outclasses me, because just like you said, a true damage dealer shouldn't be doing awful damage, ever.
Which rogue talent don't work?
@@schmooplesthesecond5997 Deathstalker hero talent is bugged as of right now.
Nah it's not gonna be like the Ret reroll situation. Fire mage is a spec that is very difficult to play so I suspect most people will try rerolling and quit when they still do no damage.
@@Pr0vidence555 Still, that shit needs attention asap lololol
How'd you get Details to work? It's still not updated as of the 22nd of June.
Just to clarify, Izen.. When you say Elemental is "working"... its a DPS loss to cast Tempest and multiple points in the Stormnbringer tree does not work.
Tempest also does not have any synergy with the spec and does not any benefit from haste (not even cast speed). So no. Elemental is not working. Both Hero trees were "implemented" and left as is.
Side note: Elemental has not had one (Damage based) tuning or talent change adjustment since 28/07/2023 (S3 DF) and zero changes in the Alpha or Beta of TWW.
yeah and most of the warrior changes have been bad for the class (they greatly outweigh the good changes)
Damn… I knew my fury war felt a bit low but daaaayum
its crazy cuz fury has terrible aoe and somehow insanely lower dps vs arms and we are literally holding 2 two handed swords 😀😀
@@Caffrof091 I mean… I’m a member of the SMF club that wishes Annihilator would come back because spamming Raging Blow until it stops resetting feels dumb (thank god Bloodthirst hits hard) buuuut yeah we definitely need a boost somewhere 😂
Mountain Thane feels good to play, which I suppose is the only real takeaway here that matters- but those are rookie numbers 😅 we gotta pump those things up!
are mythic raid lockouts still a thing in tww?
Reworked specs cranking…… who would have thought?
*looks at Balance Druid*
Ye, cranking alright.
@@San4311 Balance has not been reworked...... having 2-3 talents updated is not a rework. See Mage/Lock/Monk/DK
@@Gumblethebear The entire class tree was shuffled, as well as a massive rotational change with Pulsar being removed. Its as much a rework as Mage in 11.0. Idk how else you'd wanna define rework, when the entire way of playing the spec has been altered.
@@San4311 So a bunch of nerfs? The class tree has only gotten worse and more difficult to use with LESS value (which is saying alot). It just got nerfed again this week. Balance was changed, but almost entirely for the worse. Balance still take basically the same talents, but their damage was so bad they required GIANT buffs this week (thankful for that), but their spec is still now insanely boring and their hero talents suck.
Balance didn't NEED a rework, and the talent shuffle they got doesn't count as one. They don't play any differently, outside of "now you don't get pulsar and do way less damage".
What really needs it is bear, and to a lesser extent cat. Bear they have done nothing with, and cat they started doing a rework and just stopped mid-effort. They were going to take away the spammy and make feral dots count, then they didn't follow through on the dots, or the talents to support them.
Druid would be better if they literally just said "you're keeping your DF trees, no changes outside of adding some of the most boring hero talents ever", for every single spec (save MAYBE Resto.... depends on if you like Flourish and ramp healing)
Druid needs a ton of work.
is windWalker viable next exp?
TBF in fire's case, that one fight it seems to be overperforming is almost a best case scenario fire fight, fire is still overtuned but not as much as that fight would indicate
Affliction in that fragile state of expecting a wither nerf and ending up in the dumpster 😅😅. * prays to avoid the nerf hammer *
im discouraged still the damn fire mage as meta lol
@@doomdoom9716 🤣 So much can happen in the next month or so.
@@A_B90_ my main is a shadow priest, dont know if Affliction will be better lol
@@doomdoom9716 SP tool kit is just epic
Affliction got nerf 1 week after buff, mage fire have 20%+ avg 2nd place, and blizz doing like dont see this =D
Can blizz tune this fairly in 2 months tho thats the big question
Glad mages are finally getting a spot at the top. such a consistently ignored class when it comes to that top dps spot.
lol
wtf? :D
gotta be satire
Serious?
Ty fam Ty , finally we got some love
We're still weeks away from tuning passes on the beta. Numbers will change and change drastically. It's this way everytime. Numbers are the last thing Blizzard touches in the beta. The main attention is on if the game is playable.
Imagine being a warrior in this world
Let´s let warriors and rogues rest in piece. There is no place for them in mondern wow. And yes, I am a warrior in DF, but will choose a different class for TWW.
@@vondry87 they really just need to combine some rogue / war skills, turn quite a few hotkeys into quite a few less. then give them 6 yards on melee like ret.
i played 1 character my warrior mainly fury for over the past 10 years now I have to quit cuz I actually cant play my class lol
give warrior bloodlust
@@-.-Monster It´s hard to imagine a situation where you would pick a warrior or rogue. Hybrid classes are doing more damage than pure dmg classes like warrior and rogue + offer so much utility on top of that. And yes extended range helps a lot, it seems like most classes except paladin will lose that in TWW and that´s why I will probably main paladin. It´s just so mucb better than warrior and is so much easier to play as a bonus.
I’m hoping those numbers are lower than intended cause we already do more dps now in S4.
You…. You’re doing 600-800k dps ST on live ? Really now?…
so after see this Buff Fury tired of see my main class/spec always is under poweret
Take this all with grain of salt people cause at the end of the day the purpose of this game is to enjoy and you are most likely to perform better with a spec you like than a spec you are forced to play due to being meta.
Fire mage at top? Never before!
so its all about the damn FIRE MAGE again and again lol
always has been xd
@@jaded-harper jaded ur main is a fire mage i guess? lol
@@doomdoom9716 nah I play melee only lol. was just saying fmage being meta has pretty much always been the case. blizz lovesss that class
feral ddudu back in the meta finally
Feral druid was doing top dps on World first Fyrakk but okay.
Chackara is that you? STOP IT lol
i do want to go back to the paw life !
well my elemental shaman Kins, what are yall rerolling to since blizzard clearly doesn't give AF about us anymore? im thinking Mage or lock since they always get the most love,.
after 16 years of playing, Im actually rerolling. Thinking lock or DK
I dont understand how they are always so far off in testing with balancing classes. Did they even try? This looks like absolute ass for half the classes/specs.
lol people are actually looking at DPS meters? The final traits for Trickster and Dark Ranger don’t even work. In terms of class balance this doesn’t feel the same as Dragonflight was at this point in the Beta. Deathstalker is hilariously poorly designed (although granted that might not change). Hellcaller Destro and Conduit Monks are hilariously overtuned because someone thinks free ritual procs and a channel that does obscene damage are good ideas. And that’s just the very basic problems. Tuning itself hasn’t even been done once. They toned down some highly over performing talents but only so they can better balance the spec when they perform the first round of balancing. Balancing rounds still haven’t happened yet.
those frost dks using Rider which is doing >=20% more than their other hero tree COPIUM
Rogue buffs, pls and thank you.
seriously. its tough being a rogue sometimes. the ups and downs since i started playing at launch. can we just be consistent for once. lol not asking to be top dog all the time, but whew.. when we get the nerf hammer... dayum we get hit hard with it.
@@Skybreak31 dont even worry, we the real comeback kids 😎👌🏽
I just want all three specs to be similar in dps and not feel like I have to be a specific spec to get into raids or high keys. I usually go for a 2500-3000 rating each season in m+, but it has been a chore these past few seasons. I’m not a fan of outlaw since meth is illegal here and you need some to keep up with the buttons. Sin is my love and well I just don’t play rogue at all anymore as sin is annoying for everyone in m+ since it requires you yo stealth somehow between pulls when the tanks are chain pulling and not letting combat drop. They give us an amazing aoe talent but then lock it behind stealth while encouraging not dropping combat on tanks and healers talents. It’s beyond annoying to me.
Poor warriors... no improvement for M+, and low damage. Gonna be ostracized from raids in TWW as well as M+ like dragonflight
Yea, even prot
What is raiding?
Some specs feels like ass to play regardless of how good the numbers are. Elemental Shaman and Havoc Demon hunter comes to mind immedietly after the last weeks testng.
There a few others aswell with dysfunctional hero talents and gameplay that just feels OFF. Beast Mastery hunters AOE is another one with Beast cleave only lasting 6 seconds and the talent in pack leader to extend the duration dont work currently so having to use every 3rd global on multi shot for AoE feels.... blizzards favorite word: CLUNKY
Do they swap dev teams every expansion or what? because the same mistakes just keeps coming back but for different specs. The clunk is real.
I don't care that fire mage is top dps but i fking love it u can finally drop that shitty sunkings blessing talent.
I hated it since it was a lego in shadowlands.
as fire mage should be way at the top. no exceptions
Love how warriors get shafted again and ret paladins get the good treatment. Feels so brain dead to play Ret and just hit whatever skills flash on my screen and going unga bunga and just do more damage than a top tier warrior and have 6yd melee range. Fury warrior is also unga bunga in a sense and has more APM but I main Arms and I enjoy playing Fury over Ret. Only thing that keeps Warriors in raids is battle shout and rallying cry.
Warri is also not a class where you have to think a lot I would say. You also hit what flashes. As paladin you can also heal others and shit which makes it more brainiac to me actually. But I love warri also.
just delete physical melee classes from the game. this dumb game its terrible community doesnt deserve my rogue, or all my giga war boiz
This video is so useless, as soon as Blizzard releases Midnight in two years all these numbers are going to change anyways.
do ya one better , in 1 month when they change half the classes or hero talents again this video will be even more useless
As soon as the sun swallows the earth, is all useless
this video will be EVEN MORE useless when we're all dead in 100 years
There’s no way this comment is not a joke
You mean in one to two months right?😂
Idgaf about raid dps, M+ is all that matters
dw same specs are doing same results on m+
No one cares about what you think matters
fuck cancer+
Mong
@@damian02161986I care since he is right, if anyone is in a heroic progging guild it's just a skill issue and mythic raiders do their own testing and form which classes to bring own their own
This is actually bad for Fire, because the outlier always gets nuked to the ground before release. T_T
Got it, play fire mage
Time to just delete warriors. Lowest PUG pick in M+ b/c awful utility from all 3 roles. Low DPS output. Just delete the class.
Skill issue
Just bring a Monk/Druid/Aug and warriors pump/Utility is covered. Just do your job and interrupt.
@@gregjross852 your comment is the best way to tell someone you don't play warrior without actually saying it
Fix sub rogue
Shaman is soooo sad
"It can vary" Well, most likely the specs doing really well right now wont be top when launch happens.
Rip rogues
So what's the actual point of this video? There's been 0 tuning and more than 2 months till expand launches. We test bosses - not revewing whos buttons hit harder. Utterly pointless video.
Lmao fire mage about to get nerfed
except... they wont. They are the god child of blizzard since 2004. It is easier to count when mages werent meta, instead of when they were. There are specs where you dont even need one finger to count how often they have been meta.
People still raid, that's news to me.
honestly its the same garbage every single expansion. Blizz design and balancing teams suck.
found the addict
@@VizerPS this was all u found reasonable to say bud?
Idgaf about raids due to I'm doing d loves for end game and storymode
I enjoy the d loves also 🙂
d loves come at a high price where i come from so it makes me really happy to hear more people doing it
its fucking beta, who looks at dps right now? you guys are fiending HARD go touch grass!
ahh the angry one breathe air
the legends were true the angry one has come
Hahaha every single beta the same talk. Fool