Going into this episode I was 50/50 on whether or not the show was finally gonna let Jace(my third favorite black) cook in this war !!!! Finally now we can see him display his leadership, the way he does in the book. Unleashed the the 🐉 SEEDS !!!!😈
CR: "I mean for all the lack of action in this..." Mal: "We had action!" CR: "...uh..yes...?" Mal: "it was Damon going down on his own mother..." Never change Mal, never change.
I read the books and loved it. After everything that happened last week you need a comedown and this one nicely set up what is going to happen next. 👍🏻
@@alanfulcher460 I agree to a degree. This version of Daemon seeking power is not exactly sitting right and so much interaction with Alys. But unreliable narrator means this is not exactly disloyal to the book
Book Daemon is essentially a 50/50 villain/hero character whose motivations you can't ever really be sure of. I think what is happening here is Alys Rivers trying to influence him through his dreams and visions to steer him in a direction he wouldn't normally go in under different circumstances. his victory will likely be to go in a different direction.
@riomendoza1111 and you love to run to the comments and complain about her. How do you hate someone who gives your life so much purpose it wouldn't otherwise have?
No better episode for feminist theory Jo! Love the conversation about the mirrored experiences and the callback to our dear departed Queen who Never Was. 🐉 I always love seeing how CR will recap things - worth it every time because often need a laugh after an episode of HotD!
If you took over Westeros, you would rule from King's Landing instead of the Eyrie because, yes, the Eyrie _is_ impregnable, however that also makes it difficult to supply. In a time of war, it would be even easier to blockade than King's Landing. You need the harbor at King's Landing as well as the multiple roads to the city gates for trade so you can keep food coming in.
I read the book, and assume Daemon will probably end up matching up with the book version people are familiar with. However, nothing about this episode feels out of character to me. If he didn't go through this mid life identity crisis I would have been surprised. Of course he's having issues. I don't think it makes him any less complicated.
A character who people can't really know for sure is a hero or a villain would DEFINITELY be tempted to just claim the throne as the king....but might also reject that notion just as quickly once he remembers how much of a hassle it is to actually rule.
I don’t think they reacted to having the dragons around as new, it was more about the riders. Daemon mentioned them and Rhaenyra responded asking who would ride them. Jace doesn’t think it’s a new idea, the same the council keeps mentioning the same things
More injuries than deaths. It was such terrible writing for that to happen, but also perhaps overblown in terms of casualties. Can’t emphasize enough how awful that scene was though
Except that people love Balerion who was Maegor's dragon so maybe they don't consider the dragons (who they consider to be gods anyway) responsible for what their riders do...yet.
I respect Joanna admitting that the writing for Daemon has been a bit off. No question there are some "bad fans" who have a twisted version/perspective on him as a character, but book Dameon, and even first season Daemon, is such a rich, complicated character. So far, especially in season 2, they're transposing all the black's villainy onto him and making him less interesting. I don't think he's a good dude, but the characterization is wonky and a bit disappointing, to say the least.
It's not disappointing at all imo. Maybe he's just less heroic overall than he was presented as in Fire and Blood. Also, I think his less heroic traits come out more the longer he is around Alys who acts as a corrupting influence so far imo because his dreams constantly push him to claim what is supposedly his and how he is the guy who ought to be in charge. She's essentially trying to push him in that direction so far. I think his triumph will be to raise the army, reject the notion of claiming power for himself and that leaves Alys free to try to influence...other people.
@@Regenmacher175 it's not a matter of him being heroic or not, because I never saw him as a heroic character. He was contradictory and complicated. And the longer the show has gone on, the less so that's become. I'm giving them some time because a lot of stuff remains plot wise, and since this IS an adaptation I don't expect like for like. But I'm not feeling some of the choices, and it seems like GRRM and some other people who know the character are feeling similarly.
I also disagree. Daemon feels very real to me. He knows who he is but maybe doesn’t know why he’s having the feelings he does. He feels off because he doesn’t entirely know/understand his emotions, just like a lot of stereotypical masculine dudes who don’t take the type to process or think about their emotions. Instead, they just want to ignore it and have a war. I really think this is daemon’s own (forced lol) therapy and it’s helped me understand him better as a character. Especially as someone who has gone through therapy later in life.
The only thing that is irking me is the sense of scale in the world. Rooks Rest is hundreds of miles from Kings Landing. You're telling me that Aegon was slowly carted for 1-2 weeks without any medical care through the crownlands. This isn't Britain, this is Westeros. It is the size of a continent. It's a cool scene anyway and I didn't see any other severe time errors, but it still irks me.
I do think Daemon is gonna flip and go back to supporting Rhaenyra but if he doesn’t it’s entirely textual and makes sense not only for his arc and endgame but just character in general. He’s a groomer shithead who’s also an amazing engaging character
You can't blame CR for edging towards the greens. Aside from Daemon (and now with Rhaenys gone) no one on the team black is remotely interesting. The added focus they got this episode made it drag and made for the least interesting episode of the season. I found myself at times bored and I love this show.
See, i had a completely differet reaction. The slower character-based stuff was quite refreshing. This is what I want a show about Jaehaerys to be like, for instance. There is no need for big soap opera-style twists. I just want great dialogue, beautiful cinemtography, great writing and excellent acting. We need slower episodes after big epic battles so that everyone can regroup.
I feel like S2E5 is a deleted scenes episode. Many we can do without or at least a lot shortened- moping Corlys, gratuitous inc*sr, Daemon’s going Paul Bunyan.
I feel like this is an episode we need after an episode with a big battle in it tbh. I also think most people ultimately don't know what they want from GOT or its spin-offs. If you want big epic action that costs a lot more and hence will result in a smaller budget for everything else. Also, non-stop action setpieces means it's going to be less special and impressive eventually. We had 1 battle episode per season in GOT seasons, 2, 4 and 6 for 10-episode seasons. People nowadays want to pretend that they prefer the slower character-driven stuff but when a show then listens to them and gives it to them they whine and moan about how little supposedly happens and I just don't agree at all. This was a great episode that made me want to spend lots of time in the world of ASOIAF.
Viserys was absent, but Alicent kinda raised them to be little @$$holes out of her spite of Rhaenyra having bastards with Sir Strong. They are more a reflection of her than him.
@@johncmousley Ehh. In the show’s setting girls are married young, 14-15. Viserys deserves some blame, but the book and first season do not make him out to be a villain. He named his daughter heir and acted accordingly. Alicent ( and to a lesser extent Otto ) raised her children, in the shadow of Rhayrena and her “ Strongs “. Should he have been a father? Sure. But most kings/rulers are absent in their kids lives, especially ones not in the line of succession.
I think Otto poisoned the well way more than Viserys ever did. Otto put his family ahead of the kingdom and now they have to deal with the consequences of power.
I’m sorry but just let Joanna talk. Chris Ryan doesn’t know anything about the lore and Mal is always giggling for no reason and constantly interrupts Joanna . Don’t understand why Mal can’t control herself and always make weird sounds when others are speaking.
I am not ready for another 30 scenes of pointless council discussions. That and Daemon's side quest have been so exhausting this season. Significant drop off from Season 2. Wish they would have just done two seasons instead of stretching this out.
LOL no thanks. I quite like the character-based stuff because I'm not here for non-stop action setpieces that don't pay off without proper build-up. That's not what this story means to me.
This episode was pissing me off too because the plot was moving along too slow for it to be a war looming. The last episode was fucking disappointing and I'm still pissed about that outcome because Queen Rhaenyra did not play her hand right. BUT the ending of this episode showed promise with the young Prince and Princess Jacaerys & Baela taking matters into their own hands. All they need is to get Daemon's Harrenhal bat shit ass back on board and the plot will thicken. I would like that to happen so badly so I feel like I cant wait for the next episode!! 🤞🤞🤞Yes, I also feel that Mysaria is an asset for the Queens court, a fine replacement for the fallen Princess.....😪😪😪😪😪😪😪
Loved Jo in every thing she does even followed her on vanity fair. Wonder how she ended up here. Must be a regional location thing maybe. She really works best only with one co host
Keep in mind, sure WE just watched the episode, but this is also a podcast that the majority of the audience will listen/watch in the coming days/weeks/months so a recap is good in that regard.
The look on Mallory's face when Chris is just riffling off all those dragon names was priceless! 😂
He's been paying attention. Good for him.
I listened to the pod, but had to watch the video just for Mallory's face.
"Am I in an Alys Rivers dream??"
50:21 (for posterity, which it deserves)
Going into this episode I was 50/50 on whether or not the show was finally gonna let Jace(my third favorite black) cook in this war !!!! Finally now we can see him display his leadership, the way he does in the book. Unleashed the the 🐉 SEEDS !!!!😈
He was my favourite character in the books, love a good hearted badass leader, Baelor Breakspear is another brunette Targaryen who I love:)
CR: "I mean for all the lack of action in this..."
Mal: "We had action!" CR: "...uh..yes...?" Mal: "it was Damon going down on his own mother..."
Never change Mal, never change.
I want her to change and say "going down," but she said "eating out." Eeeewwww.
I feel like the only people who have problems with the episode are book readers. 90% of us dont care about the books
I read the books and loved it. After everything that happened last week you need a comedown and this one nicely set up what is going to happen next. 👍🏻
@@alanfulcher460 I agree to a degree. This version of Daemon seeking power is not exactly sitting right and so much interaction with Alys. But unreliable narrator means this is not exactly disloyal to the book
Book readers tend to be Daemon fans and they don't like that Daemon isn't like how they imagine him in their heads.
Facts. This episode was amazing. Character development galore.
Why does the brunette giggle like a giddy schoolgirl every time she completes a single sentence?
Mallory Rubin is what it feels like when you haven’t slept in 2.5 days and a big project is due in 10 minutes.
The dragon seeds are coming!! diplomatic jacaerys is moving the pieces
Prince Jace the Combat Pragmatist! I think it's a good look for a crown prince
I like these bc none of my friends like this show. Living vicariously through these convos
I know the feeling. Sometimes I get annoyed at people when they say they’ve never seen GoT, Shogun, or HotD lol
Don't really care about book Daemon because I never read it, but there is nothing surprising about how show Daemon is treating Rhaenyra
Book Daemon is essentially a 50/50 villain/hero character whose motivations you can't ever really be sure of.
I think what is happening here is Alys Rivers trying to influence him through his dreams and visions to steer him in a direction he wouldn't normally go in under different circumstances. his victory will likely be to go in a different direction.
That just not true
@@koshinaden263 these are my opinions and I checked the source...they're true
@@AndrewLaSane sure dude
CR and Mal and Jo are the best, tremendous work
Mal is the most annoying person in podcasting
@riomendoza1111 and you love to run to the comments and complain about her. How do you hate someone who gives your life so much purpose it wouldn't otherwise have?
@@riomendoza1111You’re obsessed and weird.
Why does the brunette giggle like a giddy schoolgirl every time she completes a single sentence?
@@dolphmanity Because this is her favorite thing and she’s incredibly excited.
Yep, Motherlingus was not on my bingo card either.
Hahaha, 🎶 Aegon is in a coma, I know, I know, it’s serious 🎶
I forgot about that Smiths song, well done!
Mallory Rubin’s laugh hooked me on this podcast.
Excited for the live show this week, see y’all there! ❤️
No better episode for feminist theory Jo! Love the conversation about the mirrored experiences and the callback to our dear departed Queen who Never Was. 🐉 I always love seeing how CR will recap things - worth it every time because often need a laugh after an episode of HotD!
Also, really appreciated watching, not just listening, when CR listed dragons and Mal’s brain exploded.
A laugh how Mallory can't stay silent for long u mean
Why does the brunette giggle like a giddy schoolgirl every time she completes a single sentence?
Kim Renfro comes to the same conclusion in Jo’s former GoT podcast. Wish they were podding together!
@@dolphmanity I like how only you and I can see it tho
Chris naming the dragons was the best
The Ramsay Bolton sound clip just should play every single Talk the Thrones.
Love you 3. Shout out to the hate viewers helping the algorithm.
If you took over Westeros, you would rule from King's Landing instead of the Eyrie because, yes, the Eyrie _is_ impregnable, however that also makes it difficult to supply. In a time of war, it would be even easier to blockade than King's Landing. You need the harbor at King's Landing as well as the multiple roads to the city gates for trade so you can keep food coming in.
CR running down dragon names like it’s a Philadelphia sports team 😂😂😂😂
Chris has his hands full with Mal. She's out of control 😂
I had no idea the podcast for this is already available I thought they were live
girlfriend in a coma for aegon is so fitting 😂
Greyscale flash backs… and then mention of a Tarly Dragon rider😮
CR tap dancing around any possible that's what she said joke like a minefield. 😂
I read the book, and assume Daemon will probably end up matching up with the book version people are familiar with. However, nothing about this episode feels out of character to me. If he didn't go through this mid life identity crisis I would have been surprised. Of course he's having issues. I don't think it makes him any less complicated.
A character who people can't really know for sure is a hero or a villain would DEFINITELY be tempted to just claim the throne as the king....but might also reject that notion just as quickly once he remembers how much of a hassle it is to actually rule.
50:25 is hilarious 😂
That was Silverwing in next weeks preview. Looks a lot like Danys dragon.
Agreed
I don’t think they reacted to having the dragons around as new, it was more about the riders. Daemon mentioned them and Rhaenyra responded asking who would ride them. Jace doesn’t think it’s a new idea, the same the council keeps mentioning the same things
Time to hit the 23 and me scrolls
Given how many common folk Melys killed at the coronation, I would have expected more of a mixed reaction from the people of Kingslanding...
More injuries than deaths. It was such terrible writing for that to happen, but also perhaps overblown in terms of casualties. Can’t emphasize enough how awful that scene was though
Except that people love Balerion who was Maegor's dragon so maybe they don't consider the dragons (who they consider to be gods anyway) responsible for what their riders do...yet.
I respect Joanna admitting that the writing for Daemon has been a bit off. No question there are some "bad fans" who have a twisted version/perspective on him as a character, but book Dameon, and even first season Daemon, is such a rich, complicated character. So far, especially in season 2, they're transposing all the black's villainy onto him and making him less interesting. I don't think he's a good dude, but the characterization is wonky and a bit disappointing, to say the least.
It's not disappointing at all imo. Maybe he's just less heroic overall than he was presented as in Fire and Blood. Also, I think his less heroic traits come out more the longer he is around Alys who acts as a corrupting influence so far imo because his dreams constantly push him to claim what is supposedly his and how he is the guy who ought to be in charge. She's essentially trying to push him in that direction so far. I think his triumph will be to raise the army, reject the notion of claiming power for himself and that leaves Alys free to try to influence...other people.
@@Regenmacher175 it's not a matter of him being heroic or not, because I never saw him as a heroic character. He was contradictory and complicated. And the longer the show has gone on, the less so that's become. I'm giving them some time because a lot of stuff remains plot wise, and since this IS an adaptation I don't expect like for like. But I'm not feeling some of the choices, and it seems like GRRM and some other people who know the character are feeling similarly.
I also disagree. Daemon feels very real to me. He knows who he is but maybe doesn’t know why he’s having the feelings he does. He feels off because he doesn’t entirely know/understand his emotions, just like a lot of stereotypical masculine dudes who don’t take the type to process or think about their emotions. Instead, they just want to ignore it and have a war. I really think this is daemon’s own (forced lol) therapy and it’s helped me understand him better as a character. Especially as someone who has gone through therapy later in life.
@@olenskafanboy I don't care how GRRM thinks about the show. I care about my feelings about the show.
Alright Chris a dragon expert 😂😂😂😂
Sunfyre lives! 😢
Love it Gang
Mal and Jo are the best podcasters on the planet right now 🙌🔥
Corlys wasn't a second son
I really like these episode
I mean…. If she was my mom I’d be Targaryen too
The only thing that is irking me is the sense of scale in the world. Rooks Rest is hundreds of miles from Kings Landing. You're telling me that Aegon was slowly carted for 1-2 weeks without any medical care through the crownlands. This isn't Britain, this is Westeros. It is the size of a continent. It's a cool scene anyway and I didn't see any other severe time errors, but it still irks me.
They probably have maesters with them to treat wounded soldiers, no?
I do think Daemon is gonna flip and go back to supporting Rhaenyra but if he doesn’t it’s entirely textual and makes sense not only for his arc and endgame but just character in general.
He’s a groomer shithead who’s also an amazing engaging character
You can't blame CR for edging towards the greens. Aside from Daemon (and now with Rhaenys gone) no one on the team black is remotely interesting. The added focus they got this episode made it drag and made for the least interesting episode of the season. I found myself at times bored and I love this show.
See, i had a completely differet reaction. The slower character-based stuff was quite refreshing. This is what I want a show about Jaehaerys to be like, for instance. There is no need for big soap opera-style twists. I just want great dialogue, beautiful cinemtography, great writing and excellent acting. We need slower episodes after big epic battles so that everyone can regroup.
@@Regenmacher175 a show about jahaerys? Shhhsh
@@koshinaden263 Sure, why not?
@@Regenmacher175 to me at least that would be boring as hell
@@koshinaden263 Knowing what happens during the 60 years of peace during which Jaehaerys was king, I don't agree tbh.
I feel like S2E5 is a deleted scenes episode. Many we can do without or at least a lot shortened- moping Corlys, gratuitous inc*sr, Daemon’s going Paul Bunyan.
I feel like this is an episode we need after an episode with a big battle in it tbh. I also think most people ultimately don't know what they want from GOT or its spin-offs. If you want big epic action that costs a lot more and hence will result in a smaller budget for everything else. Also, non-stop action setpieces means it's going to be less special and impressive eventually. We had 1 battle episode per season in GOT seasons, 2, 4 and 6 for 10-episode seasons. People nowadays want to pretend that they prefer the slower character-driven stuff but when a show then listens to them and gives it to them they whine and moan about how little supposedly happens and I just don't agree at all. This was a great episode that made me want to spend lots of time in the world of ASOIAF.
@@Regenmacher175great comment. I totally agree
Seconded.
Seeeeed
are we really blaming Alicent for her sons? Not the main villain of this entire series; their father?
Viserys was absent, but Alicent kinda raised them to be little @$$holes out of her spite of Rhaenyra having bastards with Sir Strong. They are more a reflection of her than him.
@@KarlSainte he was deliberately absent and left a child to raise other children. That makes him worse you know?
@@johncmousley Ehh. In the show’s setting girls are married young, 14-15.
Viserys deserves some blame, but the book and first season do not make him out to be a villain. He named his daughter heir and acted accordingly. Alicent ( and to a lesser extent Otto ) raised her children, in the shadow of Rhayrena and her “ Strongs “.
Should he have been a father? Sure. But most kings/rulers are absent in their kids lives, especially ones not in the line of succession.
@@johncmousleyIt really doesn’t.
I think Otto poisoned the well way more than Viserys ever did. Otto put his family ahead of the kingdom and now they have to deal with the consequences of power.
I’m sorry but just let Joanna talk. Chris Ryan doesn’t know anything about the lore and Mal is always giggling for no reason and constantly interrupts Joanna . Don’t understand why Mal can’t control herself and always make weird sounds when others are speaking.
Genuine question. Does CR think his job is to crack jokes? This is so cringe. People are trying to be stars.
If Mal's husband slips up I am so there..She is my one true Queen..Team Mallory all the way...
Delete this
Mallory is so immature it's unnerving.
Ah shit...here we go again.
? To a recap you actively chose to watch?
Take a shot every time Mallory runs out of breath and moans loudly sucking in air.
Love how passionate she is.
Take a shot for every comment rio makes complaining yet he continues to be here.
Week after week. Same lame ass comments
My love of this world/lore has blinded me that this show simpley isn't that good. Such poor dialogue.
I am not ready for another 30 scenes of pointless council discussions. That and Daemon's side quest have been so exhausting this season. Significant drop off from Season 2. Wish they would have just done two seasons instead of stretching this out.
LOL no thanks. I quite like the character-based stuff because I'm not here for non-stop action setpieces that don't pay off without proper build-up. That's not what this story means to me.
This episode was pissing me off too because the plot was moving along too slow for it to be a war looming. The last episode was fucking disappointing and I'm still pissed about that outcome because Queen Rhaenyra did not play her hand right. BUT the ending of this episode showed promise with the young Prince and Princess Jacaerys & Baela taking matters into their own hands. All they need is to get Daemon's Harrenhal bat shit ass back on board and the plot will thicken. I would like that to happen so badly so I feel like I cant wait for the next episode!! 🤞🤞🤞Yes, I also feel that Mysaria is an asset for the Queens court, a fine replacement for the fallen Princess.....😪😪😪😪😪😪😪
What a waste of Joanna Robinson podcast skills.. surrounded by these two
I remember following her 10 yrs ago.. what's with the other girl ? She doesn't know how bad she sounds talking over everyone
You are a terrible person
@@leportrait77look in a mirror
Loved Jo in every thing she does even followed her on vanity fair. Wonder how she ended up here. Must be a regional location thing maybe. She really works best only with one co host
really? mallory is my favorite of the two! though i really enjoy them both. different tastes for different people i guess, its fine to like either
Nobody ruins a podcast more than Mallory Rubin. Oh god i want to listen to this show so bad but Mallory is insufferable and doesnt shut up
Then go away dork.
Nobody ruins comment sections like Rio Mendoza. Oh i want to share theories with other sickos but Rio is insufferable and doesn't shut up.
I don't think we need the recap/ breakdown. It's just a time waste.
Like... we just watched the episode. That's why you're doing this "live" right after the episode...
It's almost like you can choose to watch or not
You could just go and do literally anything else.
What are you doing here then?
Keep in mind, sure WE just watched the episode, but this is also a podcast that the majority of the audience will listen/watch in the coming days/weeks/months so a recap is good in that regard.