The FEI is a JOKE | Hyperflexion & Rollkur
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2023
- The FEI is a joke of an organization and does not care about welfare.
Citations:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24329...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22320...
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
edepot.wur.nl/139247
www.cabdirect.org/cabdirect/a...
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/a...
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/a...
library.wur.nl/WebQuery/wurpu...
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/a...
journals.plos.org/plosone/art...
References
Denoix, J.-M. (2006) Functional anatomy and diagnostic imaging of the cervical spine. In: Report of the FEI Veterinary and Dressage Committee's Workshop p. 8. Lausanne.
FEI (2006) Report of the FEI Veterinary and Dressage Committee's Workshop - the use of over bending (Rollkür) in FEI Competition FEI Veterinary and Dressage Committee Lausanne, 36.
Gomez-Alvarez, C.B., Rhodin, M., Bobber, M.F., Meyer, H., Weishaupt, M.A., Johnston, C. & Van Weeren, P.R. (2006) The effect of head and neck position on the thoracolumbar kinematics in the unridden horse. Equine Veterinary Journal. Supplement (36), 445-451.
Heuschmann, G. (2006) Functional anatomy of the horses as related to over bending (Rollkur). In: Report of the FEI Veterinary and Dressage Committee's Workshop p. 6. Lausanne.
Heuschmann, G. (2007) Tug of war: Classical versus "modern" dressage (Translated from Finger in der Wunde). Vermont: Trafalgar Square Books.
Karl, P. (2006) Irrwege des Modernes Dressur. Cadmos Verlag, Brunsbek, pp 24-29.
McGreevy P.D., A.N. McLean (2007) The roles of learning theory and ethology in equitation. Journal
of Veterinary Behavior: Clinical Applications and Research. 2, 108-118.
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Rein tension measurements have been published and offer the simplest way of monitoring the buccal pressures required (either in one hit or by some accumulation of sustained smaller rein signals) to trigger hyperflexion
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McGreevy, P.D. and McLean, A.N., 2009. Equitation Science. Wiley -Blackwell, Oxon. McLean, A.N., McGreevy, P.D., Jeffcott, L. (2006) Equitation and learning theory - positive and
negative reinforcement. In the report of the FEI Veterinary and Dressage Committee's
Workshop, p 5, Lausanne.
Ödberg, F.O. (2006) Schooling principles and welfare - the situation of "rollkur" in this context. In
Report of the FEI Veterinary and Dressage Committee's Workshop p. 7. Lausanne. Ollivier, D. (1999) La vérité sur l'équilibre. Berlin, Paris, p. 91-99
Passino, C. (2005) FEI spotlight falls on rollkur. horseandhound.co.ul/
competitionnews
Rhodin, M. (2008) A biomechanical analysis of relationship between the head and neck position,
vertebral column and limbs in the horse at walk and trot. In Veterinary Medicine and Animal
Science, Vol. PhD, p. 48. Uppsala: Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences.
Sloet van Oldruitenborgh-Oosterbaan, M.M., Blok, M.B., Begeman, L., Kamphuis, M.C.D., Lameris,
M.C., Spierenburg, A.J. & Lashley, M.J.J.O. (2006) Workload and stress in horses: comparison in horses ridden deep and round ('Rolkür') with a draw rein and horses ridden in a natural frame with only light rein contact. Tijdschrift voor Diergeneeskunde 131, 114-119.
Van Breda, E. (2006) A nonnatural head-neck position (Rolkür) during training results in less acute stress in elite, trained, dressage horses. Journal of Applied Animal Welfare Science 9(1), 59- 64.
Van Weeren, P.R., Meyer, H., Johnston, C., Roepstorff, L. & Weishaupt, M.A. (2006) The effect of different head and neck positions on the thoracolumbar kinematics in the unridden horse. In: Report of the FEI Veterinary and Dressage Committee's Workshop p. 8. Lausanne.
Visser, E.K., van Reenen, C.G., van der Werf, J.T.N., Schilder, M.B.H., Knaap, J.H., Barneveld, A. & Blokhuis, H.J. (2002) Heart rate and heart rate variability during a novel object test and a handling test in young horses. Physiology & Behavior 76(2), 289-296.
Von Borstel, U. (2007) Fear in horses and how it is affected by the rider, training, and genetics. In: Faculty of Graduate Studies, p. 136. Guelph: University of Guelph.
Von Borstel, U.U., Duncan, I.J.H., Shoveller, A.K., Merkies, K., Keeling, L.J., and Millman, S.T. (2009) Impact or riding in a coercively obtained Rollkur posture on welfare and fear of performance horses. Applied Animal Behaviour Science 116, 228-236 - Домашні улюбленці та дикі тварини
A correction to this post - they've moved a lot of this verbiage to the guidelines under their "other documents" folder and this is the first year they've separated them from the regular rulebook.
There has also been a shift in HOW they describe these things if you look over the years.
My concerns with this remain the same: why are they making the aspects of the rulebook that directly pertain to the most pressing welfare issues less visible?
The guidelines document states that it's merely serves as guidelines for judges how to judge but ultimately it's up to the individual judge perception, meaning nothing has been done to prevent unethical riding being rewarded.
They are also still, regardless of what their rules and welfare statements claim to do, rewarding harmful riding practices and stressed horses at an exorbitant rate and have yet to address this or specify how exactly they're monitoring welfare.
Saying welfare is of paramount concern but doing nothing to enforce it or clarify how it's measured is just empty words especially when horses ridden BTV have been rewarded at the upper levels with increasing frequency over the years.
Feels like it needs a part two!
🖤💜💙💚💙💜🖤
Just found your channel and subscribed, thanks for directing me here, Rally!!!
🖤💜💙💚💙💜🖤
Much Love !
Right on Shelby Dennis!! As an FEI Level 2 Judge and Coach, I totally agree with everything you said. A lot of us have already done what you asked. Sent in emails questioning just that!! Why remove these important facts that need to be there to protect the horse. I know several other Coaches of my level and above who are really disappointed with how the FEI is treating Behind the Vertical as if it's not an issue, when it is. It causes so many issues. And the ones that suffer are the horses, and the competitors at the lower levels. They get penalized by judges who are going by the book as they say. And to me, that's not right. I will always reward someone riding on the Vertical or just in front of it a higher mark than one who is riding behind the Vertical. And most of the judges I know are of the same mind as myself. We reward good posture, good transitions, good paces and the head position of the horse is another thing we will reward, and we will deduct marks for the same things as well. We don't give away our ribbons, you have to earn them with good horsemanship. Best Regards from a Retired Paramedic, a S&R Dog and Handler Team Trainer, a Horse Trainer and FEI Level 2 Coach and Judge and Rider as well. From your friend in Ontario, Canada, Jenn. 💖 🇨🇦
Thank you Jennifer! Would I be able to interview on this topic and your experience as an FEI judge?
@@Milestone-Equestrian Yes, I'll pm you with my # so we can do a Zoom if you like
This makes me sick , as if it isn’t enough exploitation of the horses in this industry NOW the organization that is supposed to protect them at the higher levels just wants to erase their rules about those practices. Thank you Shelby for putting light on this , i for example had no idea the FEI changed the rules . If I didn’t want to compete anymore till now , this just makes me not want it even more . Where will our beloved sport and animal get with this kind of ignorance??It makes me so sad
It makes us all look so bad, and just gives more fuel to the welfare warriors that want to see the whole industry crumble. Honestly, despite the fact that I think that competition can be done ethically, I see why so many people have lost their patients and just want a complete ban, because the organizations keep showing everyone that they will refuse any step towards improvement.
Plus i think this whole situation with FEI deleting the rules about hiperflexion is just a way for them to wash their hands if anybody says anything about those practices . Like if someone comes and says hei this is not right they will just say well it’s not in our rulebook so we don’t take responsibility.
@@equestrianmadness969 Yeah, it allows them to stay super noncommittal and makes it so that they can essentially choose whatever side suits them the most if they meet any backlash
It’s a clever way of removing some thing that people used to hold them accountable without actually having to accept any accountability for having done so because they can just pretend that it was an oversight or that it’s not in the rulebook for some other reason
@@Milestone-Equestrian yes I completely agree , riding horses and competing can be done ethically and with the horses welfare in mind , but if us as a community don’t push those organizations to start taking true responsibility we will most probably get banned as a sport. And i’ve been in this world for some years , i’ve seen the good the bad and the ugly (very much ugly) and if we don’t want to change our views then we kind of deserve to be banned . I love those animals and i love the sport but i will not sacrifice the well being of my future horses for ribbons .
@@Milestone-Equestrian btw I’ve bought your book and it changed my view on a lot of things , on how to resonate with the horse and a lot more about life in general , so i just wanted to thank you for putting your soul into this read , I imagine some things weren’t so easy to lay down. Thank you for being real in a world full of superficiality.
High level dressage makes me feel sick a horse could do all this with out double reins, bits, spurs ect. Dressage these days feels artificial and feels forced when looking at a high level.
I think that we absolutely need to start going after FEI. Because they will not change or address or make strict rules on anything unless everyone out there who cares starts calling them out. This is just a way for them not to get in trouble if something abusive does happen in their presence. This is literally to cover themselves.
see my post...the email addresses are there
Thank you for speaking out on this issue.. this is disgusting. I hope FEI sees this, self reflects and smartens up..
I highly doubt they will, they literally shield themselves from information for profit
@@Hellofrosh agreed.
They won’t be able to shield themselves from the end of sport when this stuff continues to get exposed so hopefully they’ll smarten up soon
It won’t. This battle has been going on for 15+ years with science- based evidence about the abusive nature of btv piling up and being ignored and downplayed by the FEI.
Nothing short of legal actions will change their bullshit.
I "shared" it to as many emails as I could find on their website. Addresses are listed in my post above
Well stated, Shelby. FEI, take notice that even laypersons can easily see conflict behaviors like a violently swishing tail during dressage movements. Conflict behaviors should be listed and taken into account in FEI judging. IF NOT THE GOVERNING BODY, THEN WHO? Wake up and revise the 2023 rule book for the benefit of the horses! Stop rewarding this crippling, unnatural posture. PLEASE! 🙏🇺🇸
Thank you for exposing this publically. It's a real problem and what is even worse is that top level dressage riders "ignore" all this in pursuit of winning. And that is the very reason for many of us being turned off by modern dressage even though is a discipline we love. FEI or what have you must understand equine welfare comes first - after all we are with horses because we love them
I CANNOT believe that they did this!! What the fuck is going on 💀 such a JOKE, they don’t care about horse welfare at all 😭
Apparently the pressure they have been getting is not enough, so I vote we absolutely inundate them with demands for them to substantiate how they are actually enforcing rules to ensure a good welfare and no abusive animals.
The Welfare component of their new rule, book clearly states that they condemn training methods that are harmful to the horse, but they are currently rewarding them. Their rulebook is not even something they followed them selves, despite the fact that they write it, and I think that they shouldn’t be able to live that down, and they have to answer to it.
So, rolkur aside, there are definitely proponents or at least acceptors of BTV riding and the argument is that it's a "time in training when the horse isn't strong enough". EVEN if this premise is totally correct, this should cause us to look around at the INSANE number of 8 year olds now doing PSG - GP work. Perhaps, if we were to disincentivize BTV (AKA you get a 4 for the movement instead of an 8), these horses wouldn't springboard past 1st-4th level and make Grand Prix at 8, but rather at a point in their careers when they were more developed in the body? Just a secondary thought to add to this conversation.... and maybe this way we'd have horses able to last beyond 12-15 years of age in the competitive ring.
Exactly. It CAN be a moment in time, but should people at the pinnacle of the sport be having tests that have so many “moments in time” like that when they’re at the top? Definitely not!
Thank you for being the voice for those abused horses Shelby. You don't have to know anything about horses to see the misery on their faces when they are in these unnatural positions or wearing painful tack.
I've always thought the FEI rules were a little backwards. Isnt the goal of dressage to work toward LESS tack and more communication with your horse?
I'd love to see dressage go toward more gentle bits or no bits at all. Not that my mare and I compete anymore, but I would have loved to have been able to show her in a leather bit, which is not allowed. IMO that doesn't make any sense- if you can get the result you want with less, wouldnt you want to reward that?!
Yes, you make so much sense. Show me a beautiful performance with a horse ridden bitless or gentle bits and no tight nose bands, and I’ll be impressed!
Yeah, I definitely think they should be moving towards allowing bitless at minimum.
It’s also absurd that spurs and a double bridle are compulsory after certain levels.
@@Milestone-Equestrian it seems absurd alright. Do you know why it’s compulsory?
(Replying to see the new comments, I'm curious too)
FEI only cares about money, and there is money and power in the owners of the top level horses. I'm not saying they have directly had anything to do with this change, but it could be a correlating factor. The FEI has awareded the world cup final to Saudi Arabia in 2024, which isn't a country that puts much emphasis on human rights, womens rights or rights of LGBT+ people. Money can get you anything... Sports washing is a thing. Just look at last years FIFA world championship in Quatar.
Let’s not forget that these governing bodies are run by people that are already in the horse industry. Equine Canada FBI Ontario equestrian etc. are all governed by people that are in the horse industry and usually that are at the top of their field, so the people making the rules are the ones that are trying to change the industry for their own benefit most of the time. It is a conflict of interest that sadly will probably never change.
They will eventually change if it’s between that, and absolutely having their careers destroyed. They don’t deserve any other options at this point, and I think that they should be pressured to appoint where they have to choose to improve welfare practises or have their entire organization tax. They clearly can’t enforce adequate welfare on their own, so I think that demanding to have an outside organization come in as a consult for determining what is and is it good welfare would be an excellent start
Regardless of who is at the top of the organization, they are not welfare professionals, and they have absolutely no basis, speaking on what is aunt isn’t abuse because of that lack of education and their inherent bias.
They could help to prove their commitment to welfare by getting people on their board that are directly connected to welfare, advocacy, and equine science.
@@Milestone-Equestrian completely agree. So often we have coaches and top riders on the board that have a lot of experience and have been “in the business for 20 years” but have no basis or understanding of new discoveries or methods. I think also making the board more public would require more responsibility from its voting members (the public votes in MPs to make decisions about municipalities)
Instead of it being an old boys club that runs the rules how they wish, it could be a public responsibility.
I wish FEI could be petitioned for their hypocrisy in horse welfare. Rollkur is damaging to the horse. There is no room for discussion. In extreme, Big lick should have been banned years ago. These acts of cruelty are disgusting.
For got to add this but you or someone should start a petition!!!
Thank you! It is so unnatural, anyone with eyes can see it looks so uncomfortable to the horse! The pain bit on top of that, hope more people wake up!
Wow, great job FEI. We will witness the end of equestrian sports happen before our very eyes.
Yeah, I had hoped this would be the year they’d finally address the direction things have been heading, but NOPE.
This is truly shocking. Thank you for bringing awareness to this rule change.
Thank you for your video! ❤ The Fei and many other organisations need to change!
I so agree! I'm actually thinking of writing my master's degree on exactly this topic. As a university student, I am very happy to see such a long literature list.
I used to use the FEI rule book for a baseline of role play competitions. This is just a disappointment to them
I first saw Epona TVs post about the rulebook change, and I thought it had to of been exaggerated or a joke and then I went to look and I was absolutely appalled. I don’t agree with a lot of the things that the FEI does, but responding to the growing concerns with welfare in the sport by completely removing aspects of their rulebook that sought to achieve corrections and adequate welfare.… It is a choice that speaks volumes.
I’m so disgusted, I can’t believe they have THE AUDACITY to just remove the literal guidelines of what judges are to reward. This is horrible, the start of a potentially disastrous end to horses in sport. I hate this so much😢
They also have never stated how they actually measure what is good welfare despite their rules stating that welfare is paramount.
I’m not sure if it was worse to watch them blatantly defy their own rules or to slowly make such rules less visible to people.
I wish there was a way to watch the training barns. I've seen bad things at training barns. Even dressage ones. Regardless of how they ride for a rule book at a show... Behind the scenes may not reflect them riding for it. But yea I am super sad and disappointed in the FEI rule book and I hope big riders make a big statement. It would be nice if they would boycott shows and make clear why. Maybe even picket shows if needed.
Yeah we need separate welfare organizations to do a better job of protecting the horses outside the competition ring but if stressed horses stop being rewarded it may de-incentivize training barns to train in unethical ways that produce tense horses who won’t win.
I can’t watch FEI dressage anymore because most of it just hurts my eyes. I can’t watch horses suffering! So they don’t give a crap about horses in pain right in front of the judges, but god forbid lowly I should ride my Cushings horse in a CDI because we are SO concerned about purity of something or other that we can’t allow a horse to show on vet prescribed Prascend. Go figure….
Modern dressage is a disaster
😠 This organisation is just a shame. They are allowing the abuse of horse and they know it, but just don't care at all.
FEI is giving ammo to people who are agains horse riding.
The FEI is trying to make people who don't have anything to do with horse's or Dressage want to watch Dressage. Those people don't mind watching Showjumping or Cross-Country (it's exciting and dangerous), but the don't want to watch Dressage. They want those people go "WOW!!!".
From what I’ve seen, a lot of the general public thinks it’s unethical so I’m not sure their plan is working 😅
Thank you Shelby for 1) ensuring there is a record of the massive change in the rules and 2) for bringing up the lack of a definition of what Welfare is. How can welfare be paramount, how can the horse's welfare always come first - when they don't explain what it is?
Cortisol stress hormone adversely affect joint. Hence all the veterinary intervention needed for these ‘top’ horses.
Thanks Shelby for his excellent evidence
Hi Shelby,I only just found you.😊....Thank you for making this video,I truly can't believe that this is happening.I don't support Rollkur.... And I believe that the Equestrian world is getting a bit crazy 😧 Thanks again.love your channel.🐎❤️🐎
Thank you Shelby - everyone who is concerned should definitely lobby, complain and protest - not just to the FEI - but YOUR OWN National Federation, because it is all the national federation representatives - people from our countries (you may know one of them!) - who were there in November - who travelled to South Africa to the FEI General Assembly - and who did not say a word. There were no objections, no debate. All the countries (and that's your country too!) allowed this section to be removed from the rule book.
Wow… thanks for speaking out on this Shelby! It’s so sad that we seem to be going backwards. I know money talks, but seriously?!
It is so good that you speak about this. We need to stay vigilant.
My feelings on this are… complicated. On one hand, we know why the FEI is backing away from a rule they recognized they were unable to enforce… because welfare has never been a *serious* priority for them. Other sport horse orgs ARE able to enforce rules like this by a straightforward hard line “firewall”, as in, “the horse can never score above [x] if more than 30% of that movement was in hyperflexion” etc. It’s not hard.
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On the other hand, I’m VERY familiar with the research… I’ve read more than 80+ academic papers on Rollkur, and these studies are not as simple as “BTV is bad.”
Using BTV as a proxy to represent too-harsh contact is ok in a context where it’s 100% the horse is being forced:held into positions. And that’s also a super easy judging fix: include waaaaay more movements and sequences where there must be sustained slack on the reins. None of this “three strides” bullshit or having a long rein only be at the walk 😏🤦🏼♀️.
If the heart of dressage is supposed to be self-carriage, it’s easy to demo. Nothing in sport dressage does virtually anything to show evidence of self-carriage.
But demonizing BTV is a problem for many reasons. Many of the studies showing issues with Rollkur *also* show problems in higher positions. The demon is the forced frames/forced head postures. A horse can be in front of vertical and still suffering.
Focusing on Rollkur is trying to treat the symptoms when the disease/underlying cause is the much bigger demon.
I have no doubt if Rollkur were banned, horses would not be better off… they’d just be messed up in other ways. And some of the high-head positions are potentially *worse* if forced.
They need to change what they test, not just how they score it.
But… I do think this act of quietly backing out of welfare positions does show their true colors. They need to either step up and own the problem and take action, or just admit they have no ability to influence the judging of the sport.
Only reason I don’t care all that much os dressage sport competition has been in decline in the US for quite some time. I can only hope it’s the same in other places.
But it’s a dying discipline in most of the U.S. well before lockdowns, dressage shows were diminishing, dressage barns closing, fewer people coming into the sport, and the “political” battles were about whether they should accept “Western Dressage” as a way to help keep the sport on life support (more money for shows and judges, etc. if Western Dressage classes are allowed in).
There’s still plenty of sport dressage at the high end, but fewer and fewer entering the sport. Still awful for probably the majority of horses in it, but at least there are drastically fewer of them.
I don’t think it’s demonizing BTV to say it shouldn’t be rewarded in the way it is at the upper levels. Those riders represent the best of the best and so many of them are riding in detrimental ways that aren’t just a moment in time.
Thank you for discussing this issue. I don’t consume almost any equine competitions because most of the thing shown are not easy to watch. I was completely unaware so thank you for bringing this up.
The over tucked neck is ugly to watch. The sport has some positive goals but is taken to extremes. Even breeding horses with such ridiculously long legs is strange and unnatural looking to me.
And there’s research stating that such breeding may predispose horses to certain soundness issues too in addition to making saddles more difficult to fit to them. It’s such a sad situation with so much corruption.
Thank you for talking about this and bringing awareness to the issues going on!
I really appreciate the quality and quantity of educational videos on your channel.
Disgusting!!! I am now worried there will be a pressure on riders to do this. It’s not right!! What can we all do to get it back in and have it enforced!!! No true equestrian should agree that this is right and that this even looks good. It’s cruel and looks ugly!! NOBODY should do this at ANY level!! If this carries on and riders are then pressured to do this to get the points dressage will be (in my opinion) in the same category as big lick!!! THIS HAS TO STOP AND WE HAVE TO MAKE THEM OUT IT BAVK IN AND ENFORCE IT!! But how????!! I am willing to do anything to stop this from happening!!
Shelby thanks so much for highlighting this. Exactly this one feature about riding in front of the verticle would be a game changer if it was enforced-that was one of the recommendations for Paris Olympics! Please tell us, does the new rule book come after the November AGM? This is the only moment FEI implements major changes in their regulations?
im glad that we have another voice for animals especially now that raleigh wont be posting after this year. im so happy theres another advocate gaining recognition. thank you so much i love you
This was extremely informative and I thank you for posting it.😊💜
The FEI at least kicked "Reining" out of their program. Reining uses rollkur, in particular to cut the air off of their horses as the horses fight the intense abuse and pressure placed on them at such young ages. It's so bad in reining that advertising horses, especially young horses, as requiring "maintenance" to stay sound doesn't leave them feeling ashamed.
A worldwide organization in my opinion only needs to be studied not revered ; therefore you find some truth. Although, we all know there are true and kind horse people. Thank you Shelby, especially as a young person. Please keep protecting horses.❤️🌻
Thank you for speaking out regarding these issues. I no longer enjoy watching dressage because of these practices and changes that are terrible for the horses
Thanks for sharing, I'm not a horsey person never had one but I do like learn about their behaviour and be more aware of what happens in the horse world.
I bet this pissed off Raleigh Link as well. LMAO. Keep fighting the good fight.
Shelby, Raleigh, Rick Gore all hate this shit show and highlight it as heroes.
Whilst it’s disgusting and shocking they’re removing this guideline/rule from their rulebook. Let’s be honest they didn’t even bother to enforce it anyway. Because like you said, they don’t care about the welfare of horses. It’s not their priority at all.
I don’t know how anyone could look at these horses that are hyperflexed and say they look comfortable, happy or like they’re going well- let alone professional riders and judges.
I genuinely believe wherever horses are used for monetary gain as opposed to pleasure there will 110% be abuse. No matter what discipline. Look at horse racing, the most prolific equestrian sport arguably and in my opinion one of the worst. The horses are treated well so long as they are well & have hope to be winners. As soon as they are not they are literally shot or left to their own devices.
I think an interesting thing to note is that the racing industry actually has way more incentives to protect horses after racing than the show industry does on top of it having more data tracking for accountability purposes.
I think the skeletons in the closets of the horse show industry are as bad or worse, racing is just more publicized so has had more pressure to make change.
@@Milestone-Equestrian yeah I agree there but I do feel that protection only happens in the forefront and what happens behind closed doors once the horses are no longer fit for purpose is just disgusting! I had an ex racehorse who had been pin fired on his forelegs to encourage a speedy recovery from shin splints… he was 4 when I got him 😢 he ended up being retired from racing because he was too polite and if he didn’t get rehomed it would’ve been the gun. Agh it’s inhumane and simply cruel. They could and should allow the horses time to recover from injuries when needed.
But you’re probably so right I just don’t know much about other industries. The weird thing to me is animal rights have come such a long way but humanity as a whole is still so far away from respecting their lives the way they deserve 😢 thanks for replying you obviously are very knowledgeable on this. Keep up the good work 😃
Good for you speaking out about this. I'm tired of people putting hearts on horrible rides because the score says it's a great ride. If wrong is rewarded than it's a snowball effect of everyone emulating it! I do not care if it's a big name horse and person - if it is wrong it's wrong! And worst of all - it is harmful to the horse!
Thank you Shelby . I don't have the rule book but wonder if bits are regulated. I also hate the modern rider position as it doesn't look balanced. I will admit to having ridden with blunt spurs but a normal leg position means that these are never used unless strictly necessary.
Agree! This "sport" should be showing a beautiful relationship between horse and rider. It is supposed to accentuate the natural movement of the horse, NOT what the horse can be forced to do. Its disgusting what has happened to dressage.
if they authorize this kind of practice, it is because they themselves use them with horses
My husband is writing an email for me to send them over and over 😊😊😊 any sponsorships I see I’m gonna question cause…
my other post has all the email addresses I could find on the FEI website. I just "shared" Shelby's video. Now if her 75.4k subscribers did the same....!!!!!!
Okey, I totally agree with you, but just to be scientifically correct a P-value ...citing:"During R, horses tended to react
stronger (P = 0.092) to the fear stimuli and to take longer (P= 0.087) to approach them."means that there is no significance , in other words we cannot reject the null hypothesis (=no difference between treatment)...just to you better understand and interpret scientific results....sometimes it is hard to prove things that are visibly wrong, particularly when there is lack of scientific proof. Sometimes it is better to highlight aspect that are already been proofed that push, just because other people may stuck on that and miss the 99% of what is already being proved and make the case! BTW I really appreciated your video, there should be more people stening up for horses healthcare!
During R (Rollkur), horses approached fearful stimuli with more fear and took longer to approach them.
The conclusion of such study was that there were welfare implications because during pain and discomfort horses react more fearfully towards stimuli.
The conclusion considered it significant, claiming that there is no significance is false.
This isn’t hard to prove because there’s already a variety of other studies that have linked fear and pain to larger flight responses and more nervousness in new surroundings, so that finding supports what we already know and is most definitely significant, as stated in the very conclusion of the same study.
There isn’t really anything to correct because the info points in the same direction of everything else I’ve cited and aligns with findings from other studies.
I selected that quote and study for a reason because it follows a trend scientists are already well aware of: horses in pain are typically more fearful and spooky, reacting more strongly to such stimuli.
You may not think that is of significance but as a behaviour professional I absolutely view it as significant.
At this point we might as well make our own organization dedicated to shows but with standards.
Fantastic post. Thank you.
Also...we need judges for the judges! They need to be penalized and struck off for giving high marks to this harsh abusive type of riding.
AGREED I DONT GET HOW PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO WEAR SPURS AND BRIDLES WOTH DOUBLE BITS 😢😢😢😢😢😢 IF THE HORSE WANTS TO DO IT THEN THEY WILL YOU SHOULD HAVE TO USE SUCH CRAZY TACK FOR THE HORSE AND THE RIDER!!!!
So disappointing. Can't imagine why anyone prefers holding the horse's head like that. Not only is it rarely, if ever, necessary, it's just tiring to hold it that tight.
But Shelby... "iT lOoKs PrEtY sO iTs Ok, mY hOrSe LoVeS iT." 😒
I used to ride dressage 40 years ago. This would have never been allowed back then. The horse would drop his head a little and be on the bit with impulsion from the hind quarters, never from the hands. And never hyperflexed. I am ashamed of how the sport has changed.
All rules in all equestrian Sports must always be for the benefit of the horse. I have seen horses who, by their entire demeanor, show their active and almost joyful participation in what they are doing. From Endrance to Eventing to Western Pleasure and Reining. But just as we can't trust manufacturing plants to not pollute our waters we cannot trust all competitors to treat their horses well.
So we must regulate and judge with an eye towards the well being of the horse.
I hope I said this right.
Im not even an english rider but I know about this and I am absolutely horrified…😢
Thank you for pointing this out. I don't even like the flash on a bridle. SMH.
What's the title of your book and where can I get it?
It’s The Other Side of Horsemanship milestoneequestrian.ca/my-book
Thank you!
@@Milestone-Equestrian Thank you!
I just can’t believe it 😢
Great video! Every equestrian should understand the poor treatment of horses when used in human sport events and otherwise! Yes, yes!
I have been in Dressage for 30 years. About 20 years ago I said if we get rid of the judges and allow computers to judge competitions we would get a far more accurate outcome and we would alleviate top riders winning based on who they are versus how correctly the horse performs. All you have to do is look at FEI competitions and see that perhaps 10 percent of the horses have a correct walk with a over track. The basics are glossed over for the higher level movements, and they come from tension not from relaxations and suppleness. And just for clarification young horses on the lung line and just in a halter can over bend as this can be from conformation and lack of muscle and not always from too much hand. Bad riding is wide spread in the industry. I have seen horrific riding from EC Certified Trainers who think they are all that.😮
The link in this video description is helpful.
Agreed. We also need to crack down on trainers too.... Clinton Anderson for eg
I mean are we even surprised?
I don’t know how you could perform rolkur on a horse if you had any empathy. I want my animals to feel safe and I want to work to be a better rider so we have a partnership. Rolkur and related training is the opposite.
I think a lot of riders are unaware but the problem is there’s so much pushback against science that people want to be unaware so they don’t have to accept it.
Fei is a joke for more than one reason
Your horse must wear noseband to compete, at higher levels you must use double bridles.
Bitless bridles aren't dressage legal. You can't ride a grand prix in a snaffle and on higher levels leather bits aren't legal either. Isn't it a point of dressage to do more with less force? How a chain, 2 bits (both thin and one shanked) connect to softness and connection between rider and horse? It's one thing when somebody CHOOSES to use such equipment and it's other when an organisation forces someone and rewards them for putting more metal into their horses' mouths
At the same time showjumping are allowed to do willy nilly tandem crazy bits and it's fully fei legal. Not to mention how absolutely awful horses on the warm up look like (all kinds of ropes, pulleys, bungees and crazy shit overall. Just look up Cavaliada warm up, one of bigger fei events in middle to east Europe. Its absolute shit show)
It's high time we abandon this medieval organisation and create new one with horse's welfare in mind, banning harmful equipment and allowing more choice for soft equipment
PREACH 👏🏻
Why would anyone do this? What is the advantage to rider or horse? I don’t see any. Is it just for control?
We're going back to medieval times.
When they bring back ring bits there better be a revolution.
Agree! Ring bits are so common in horse racing. Makes me sick
I'm not disagreeing with you, however you show you search the word submission and it's not there and then it is literally right there on your next part of behind the bit (point 2). It also notes that behind the bit (along with above) is lacking submission. I am glad to see 2.1 still there.
The next part is their old rulebook.
Behind the bit isn’t mentioned in the 2023 guidelines.
Some of those screen recordings are of their prior rule books.
Regardless of what their rules say, they’ve been rewarding BTV at rampant rates so the fact that it was in the rulebooks isn’t really important because they have gotten increasingly worse at following their own rules since the early 2000s
Is this just a North American change?
No it’s for all FEI sanction dressage. Is there 2023 rules work and the FEI is a worldwide organization.
😪
OMFG
do they think it is fare and caring to force a horse to bend his so neck so much?. are they going back to the dark ages? where good looks are fine, if even if it cause pain to the animal . they are +++++ to let this happen.
Well shit… Wild idea and probably highly unrealistic but could fei be replaced with a nice horse competition/ some horsey kind of an event organisation that actually cares about horses?
There’s been some organizations that are trying but unfortunately FEI is a huge organization with a ton of power and moving competitors over to another organization especially if there’s less accolades and prize money would probably be difficult IMO. I
The FEI sound more and more clueless when it comes to the horses. While watching a show jumping competition on their UA-cam channel (Banorte GP Qualifier 2021-2022), a horse was doing the course eyes super wide, nostrils flaring, mouth gaping, clearly in pain. What did the commentator that the FEI chose for the job say? Something among the lines: "It is always a lovely thing to see a horse enjoy his job so much" I unsubscribed on the spot. 🤬
And who the f**k decided that hyper flexing is bad for us but not for the horses...
PS: I only swear in exceptional situations. I think this is infuriating enough to warrant swearing.
Yeah it’s very concerning. To claim welfare is paramount but then be unable to identify when welfare is being damaged is absurd.
They need to hire separate entities to help them learn because people are so used to seeing stressed horses they no longer know how to differentiate
@@Milestone-Equestrian I don't even ride and I know the difference 🤣
Insta-subscribe. You got so much respect from me!!
🖤💜💙💚💙💜🖤
Much Love!!
You would have had to download the last version, and other versions in the past. The horse should be relaxed.
I have the other versions featured in this to show the parallel of how much they’ve removed from the current years rulebook and what they’ve moved to being mere guidelines instead.
I think it’s disgusting it’s animal abuse!!
How do those higher ups in the society know what's abuse and what is not? Well they don't. If they knew they would pay attention to the horses behavior. Horse is in pain, discomfort or shows other signs of not being well or lasting physical and psychological damage then it's not good for the horse and if you promote that and exploit it as well then it's animal abuse. As far as I have seen the society with big lick, dressage and such....they only give a damn about how it looks, gait and performance. At least that's what I see, someone else might have a different view
It is all for MONEY. Not for horses. If you want to see some really rank stuff watch sale videos from some of the big breeding operations. ;) The ridden ones.
This is not accurate at all. Nothing has been removed, read the general regulations!
They’ve moved them to guidelines as of just this year, meaning you have to go to supporting documents to find it and guidelines are also left up to individual judges to enforce.
If you can’t see an issue with them slowly making these things LESS visible over the last decade as abuses have increased, then we are on very different pages and will not see eye to eye.
Also watch the entire video and then tell me it’s not accurate to say that they never enforced their own rules even prior to this. I have cited extensive research proving just that.
P.S. Dear Timmy, love the exclamation point adorning the end of your clever sentence. Wherever did you get it? TTFN