I've recently discovered this podcast and I've been binging it for a few weeks now. Thanks so much to the Tangents crew for helping me to feel less alone during a difficult season. 💙
What I find interesting is that even people (like myself) with aphantasia still dream normally. I would also like to see them do an episode on aphantasia/hyperphantasia.
Hank, you’re not the only person to experience rapid flashing images of seemingly unrelated things! That has happened to me and I had so many questions about it.
My mother always talks about being sick from one of the plagues she suffered as a south American child. She had a fever and a sacred heart picture called to her. He signaled to her to follow him. She is in her late sixties and she remembers that fever dream. Great show guys!
Dreaming is honestly highly underrated and underutilized. Dreams and practices that utilize them like lucid dreaming and dream incubation can allow you to improve most if not all areas of your life. Plus it's very fun and often feels like real life allowing you to experience almost any fantasy in an immersive way
41:38 I have no proof, but it seems very likely that our neural connections are as unique as our fingerprints. So when I say "cat" we can both get to the same context, but we're both using different neurol paths to get there.
while mapping of the human brain is still a very new science, every study which compares brains tends to agree that no two brains are alike beyond the macro-anatomy of them. even down to volume of matter in each region, we see significant differences. pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4009419/
Yes, that's likely a contributing factor. What makes things more complicated is that the designated neurons in our networks that excite at the thought of a cat can shift in their pathway connection, or even swap that role with other neurons. We are constantly retroactively changing our connections to these concepts based on our current experiences, which is why our opinions can drift so dramatically over time -- and also why some people flip in their personal beliefs while insisting they have "always" been that way. Not only is our neural map unique to each individual, it's also unique for each individual in each moment of time. I often hear intense music or soundscapes going in and out of sleep. Sometimes that noise is of someone pounding on a door and I startle awake. Sometimes I see intense, vibrant, and cartoonish kaleidoscopes that overlay my vision for the first few minutes upon waking. Rarely does the sound and visual imagery co-occur, it usually one of the other. I may never know why this happens to me, but I'm confident in knowing the wider majority of the population does not experience this like I do.
My Lucid Dream test is telekinesis and levitation. If something feels off when I'm in the dream, I'll look at something and command it, usually making it fly into my hand. Then I'll do a hover test. If I can levitate, I can tell how much control I have over the dream. If I can barely hover I know it's a dream, but if I can lift myself into the sky or otherwise move around easily, I also know I'll have control over my environment, in which case, I'll start moving buildings and trees.
Trace: "Just the fowl in the pea group." Me, a software developer: "What about the NP-fowl?" At least I amuse *myself* 😂 Dammit, now I have La Bouche stuck in my head. I also once did the techniques to start lucid dreaming. Like Hank, it also made me wake up after like 20-30 minutes every time, which isn't great for sleeping habits. But also, half the times I'd wake up from a lucid dream, I'd have sleep paralysis, which is something I don't have normally, and I hated it. So as much as I loved being able to control the narrative -- it's basically the ability to do whatever you want without rules or consequences -- I had to stop and let the lucid dreams fade.
Sary's fact-off fact fascinates me. Absolutely anecdotal, but I have had both lucid and non-lucid dreams, and the lucid ones 1) are recurrent, taking place in the same setting with similar initial actions, which I've always referred to as "save states" (including "save points," other recurring plot points/actions where I can remember what happened in previous iterations), and 2) are taken control of via hand movements that map to keybinds I use frequently in computer games. Trace refers to going "Wait, no, I don't wanna-" about dream choices while (becoming) lucid, which I can do- but only by curling my dream hand to where I would be pressing ctrl+z on a keyboard! Interesting to hear that lucid dreaming is more common in gamers, and that dream capabilities seem to be somewhat influenced by the kinds of games they play.
8:59 I have had this happen before!! Mostly it happens when I'm fighting to stay awake but end up dozing off, and I can almost always trace the little flashes to things that were on my mind recently.
Same! I get the flashing images when I'm in an in between state of consciousness, I'm not fully asleep but definitely not awake. And I can follow the thoughts kind of, it's like a rapid fire train of thought bunny trail. Everything seems completely unrelated but in my head they all somehow led to the next thing my brain came up with.
We need a Scishow Tangents Tangents, where they talk about all the stuff they found interesting on the topic but didn’t have time to get to in the episode
Growing up, I had so many nightmares, like every night. At one point I managed to get control of them (realize I was dreaming & either end or change the dream) but that didn't last long. Turns out I'm bipolar, & for the longest time, even on meds (or maybe once I went on them - it's been a while) I just had chaotic dreams that had vivid imagery & feelings, & directional awareness, but nothing I could've told anyone about. Since I've been on my current mood stabilizer, my dreams have had plot points and story lines. It's so weird!
I have these very elaborate dreams of like reorganizing my linen closet, but the closet is really big and the linens are really nice and the disappointment to waking up to my actual house and it not being organized like the dream was cannot be overstated. It's almost as bad as waking up angry with your partner for something they did in your dream.
I get the random cycling of thoughts. Sometimes images, sometimes thought fragments, sometimes words. It's very common in people with ADHD. It's like standing in a school of fish of thoughts and when you go to catch one it darts away. It used to frustrate me so much before I knew why it was happening.
the gamer and lucid dream thing checks out for me, gaming is my main hobby and i think i lucid dream every 2-3 months, mostly just being a character from a videogame or an anime i watch, its really fun though, but it dont feel like it lasts more then 5-10 min at a time
I just rewatched the boy mayor of second life series and I also think dogs should vote. And I hadn’t realized the first time I watched it that they play the west wing theme at the beginning of the episodes lol
The idea of recording dreams is an important plot element in the film Until The End of the World, which suggests that it could become addictive as people get wrapped up in reliving them.
The dreams I remember are mostly 3 types - nightmares that my brain just NOPEs out of; those where I spend time with my parents (sometimes reliving situations which actually happened after they died), which are usually nice since we had good relationships; and ... well ... being in Minecraft - which is one of the games I play most.
Back in the old days "the Dreambook" was what people called the Sears Catalog, because you would look through it and dream about buying the stuff you can't afford.
As someone who has had lucid dreams since I can remember, I cannot imagine why ANYONE would want to do it. I guess once or twice might be cool. But when it gets really bad it just feels like I'm "shifting realities" and not ever sleeping so I'm just tired all the fcking time
Because it often feels like real life, practicing dream control, experiencing being in movies tv shows and books, etc. There's also practical benefits like euphoria, higher self awareness, learning more about yourself, problem solving, skill building, and more
I’ve had “Tetris physics” happen to me before and not just with Tetris. It’s almost like an echo of the networks of neurons, that you’ve spent way too much time strengthening lately, firing again when you enter a trigger situation (ie typing triggers both neurons for preparing to type and fresh neuron networks used playing Tetris). Almost like Deja vu. Don’t know if that’s what’s happening but that’s what I imagine is happening.
😬 as I play candy crush while watching this. 😂😂❤ As a person with narcolepsy I wonder how much crossover there is between lucid dreaming and some types of sleep attacks. 🤔 I have had some attacks where I can't keep my eyes open or respond but I can hear everything that is happening in reality and simultaneously be dreaming and know it. Occasionally I even have some control over dreams with all of that stimulation happening at once. 🤷😁
In the lucid dreaming community this is typical referred to as "persistent realms". Despite the esoteric sounding name it doesn't seem to have ties to mysticism at all
@@shadw4701 Well I don't really follow anything mystic as I think there's likely a rational explanation usually, but thanks for the clarification. That being said, that is very interesting and makes sense to me. It is a very persistent world. I am not lucid in the sense of I know I am dreaming, but I am fully conscious and can make choices of my own, I just feel like it's reality when I'm there. It doesn't help that the more of these dreams I have, the more vivid and concrete these locations become. I had an entire multiple city blocks that were detailed where I could go into the buildings from multiple ways over the course of multiple days. There's nothing "scary" about anything that happens ever, in fact it's usually quite mundane. A lot of going to random stores and houses and staying at places and driving and walking etc. I have to physically travel from place to place like it's real life. It's not something I would ever consider a nightmare, but when I wake up, it is very annoying to have to re-orient myself to reality when it just feels like I was away for days in a completely different life.
@WeyounSix Technically that is lucid dreaming as lonh as you know you're in one. A good tip for teleportation is looking at the floor and expecting to be somewhere else. Spinning can also allow you to teleport. As well as doors, when opening one try to imagine a specific place on the other side and really expect it to be there
I only remember lucid dreams, and most of them involve flying. Where you intentionally run and leap into the air. I used to game all the time, so I wonder if that's the reason?
regarding succubi and incubi being female and male respectively: that is a more recent thing. The names derive from succubare and incubare which are "to lie beneath" and "to lie atop. In other words, whether the demon is a succubus or incubus depends on the position that the seduction happens in, not the gender. Gender being conflated position is a later (and sexist) addition
My therapist is like an older man so I think he’s got some old school psycho analysis in his training somewhere and sometimes if I mention a dream he’ll try to get to the bottom of it like he’s Detective Freud.
I've had somewhat lucid dreaming experiences despite the fact that I haven't played first-person video games since the Atari era (because they became gratuitously violent).
Serbian language has a meaningful ethimology for noun nightmare. The second part, mare, is a noun mora in Serbian. Verb morati means must. Someone is forcibly behaving rowards you, torturing you. Related verbs are umoriti (se), being tired and mreti, to die. So this must be a protoeuropean word which retained meaning in slav languages.
I was under the impression that REM or Dreams don't happen with when you are dozing, Or when you are in deep sleep. It's sort of a realm/phase inbetween. So you tend to remember your dreams from when you are begining to wake up out of deep sleep but are still very much asleep/not awake. I tend to have very vivid dreams. And i think it's because i often have disturbed sleep. I haven't had particularly memberable 'fever dreams'. But my assumption is that people have them BECAUSE the fever disturbs their sleep. They are in deep sleep less, tossing and turning, Uncomfortable because of fever and other illness symptoms (blocked nose). And so just remember their dreams when they wouldn't normally because they are more 'awake'. And the content of the dream being especially weird, like i think Hank said? Mood dependant? but idk.
As someone who works in a fish store and owns a lot. You don't want fish to vote 🤣 there is either 0 thoughts or spite in those little heads. They only desire food, far too easy to bribe 🤣
"I'll send you a couple links..."
Sam's internet history must be AMAZING.
I've recently discovered this podcast and I've been binging it for a few weeks now. Thanks so much to the Tangents crew for helping me to feel less alone during a difficult season. 💙
Welcome ❤
Saaame
Hank's "hmm" at 6:56 definitely secured the poem as deep, meaningful slam poetry and my mind filled in the snap applause
What I find interesting is that even people (like myself) with aphantasia still dream normally. I would also like to see them do an episode on aphantasia/hyperphantasia.
Hank, you’re not the only person to experience rapid flashing images of seemingly unrelated things! That has happened to me and I had so many questions about it.
My mother always talks about being sick from one of the plagues she suffered as a south American child. She had a fever and a sacred heart picture called to her. He signaled to her to follow him. She is in her late sixties and she remembers that fever dream. Great show guys!
Thanks for bringing Trace back onto my youtube 'radar', missed his face without realizing it.
So you're telling me that the fact that I've played video games since I was like 5 means I can lucid dream? Huh.
Dreaming is honestly highly underrated and underutilized. Dreams and practices that utilize them like lucid dreaming and dream incubation can allow you to improve most if not all areas of your life. Plus it's very fun and often feels like real life allowing you to experience almost any fantasy in an immersive way
41:38 I have no proof, but it seems very likely that our neural connections are as unique as our fingerprints. So when I say "cat" we can both get to the same context, but we're both using different neurol paths to get there.
while mapping of the human brain is still a very new science, every study which compares brains tends to agree that no two brains are alike beyond the macro-anatomy of them. even down to volume of matter in each region, we see significant differences. pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4009419/
Yes, that's likely a contributing factor. What makes things more complicated is that the designated neurons in our networks that excite at the thought of a cat can shift in their pathway connection, or even swap that role with other neurons. We are constantly retroactively changing our connections to these concepts based on our current experiences, which is why our opinions can drift so dramatically over time -- and also why some people flip in their personal beliefs while insisting they have "always" been that way. Not only is our neural map unique to each individual, it's also unique for each individual in each moment of time.
I often hear intense music or soundscapes going in and out of sleep. Sometimes that noise is of someone pounding on a door and I startle awake. Sometimes I see intense, vibrant, and cartoonish kaleidoscopes that overlay my vision for the first few minutes upon waking. Rarely does the sound and visual imagery co-occur, it usually one of the other. I may never know why this happens to me, but I'm confident in knowing the wider majority of the population does not experience this like I do.
My Lucid Dream test is telekinesis and levitation. If something feels off when I'm in the dream, I'll look at something and command it, usually making it fly into my hand. Then I'll do a hover test. If I can levitate, I can tell how much control I have over the dream. If I can barely hover I know it's a dream, but if I can lift myself into the sky or otherwise move around easily, I also know I'll have control over my environment, in which case, I'll start moving buildings and trees.
Trace: "Just the fowl in the pea group."
Me, a software developer: "What about the NP-fowl?"
At least I amuse *myself* 😂
Dammit, now I have La Bouche stuck in my head.
I also once did the techniques to start lucid dreaming. Like Hank, it also made me wake up after like 20-30 minutes every time, which isn't great for sleeping habits. But also, half the times I'd wake up from a lucid dream, I'd have sleep paralysis, which is something I don't have normally, and I hated it. So as much as I loved being able to control the narrative -- it's basically the ability to do whatever you want without rules or consequences -- I had to stop and let the lucid dreams fade.
Sary's fact-off fact fascinates me. Absolutely anecdotal, but I have had both lucid and non-lucid dreams, and the lucid ones 1) are recurrent, taking place in the same setting with similar initial actions, which I've always referred to as "save states" (including "save points," other recurring plot points/actions where I can remember what happened in previous iterations), and 2) are taken control of via hand movements that map to keybinds I use frequently in computer games. Trace refers to going "Wait, no, I don't wanna-" about dream choices while (becoming) lucid, which I can do- but only by curling my dream hand to where I would be pressing ctrl+z on a keyboard! Interesting to hear that lucid dreaming is more common in gamers, and that dream capabilities seem to be somewhat influenced by the kinds of games they play.
🏅 Like you released a recording of Ceri's song, please post Trace's poem seperately. 🤠 It's excellent!
8:59 I have had this happen before!! Mostly it happens when I'm fighting to stay awake but end up dozing off, and I can almost always trace the little flashes to things that were on my mind recently.
Same! I get the flashing images when I'm in an in between state of consciousness, I'm not fully asleep but definitely not awake. And I can follow the thoughts kind of, it's like a rapid fire train of thought bunny trail. Everything seems completely unrelated but in my head they all somehow led to the next thing my brain came up with.
New episode lesgooooo
We need a Scishow Tangents Tangents, where they talk about all the stuff they found interesting on the topic but didn’t have time to get to in the episode
I remember my dreams when snoozing in class were super crazy... I don't remember what made them crazy, I just remember them feeling crazy! 😅
Growing up, I had so many nightmares, like every night. At one point I managed to get control of them (realize I was dreaming & either end or change the dream) but that didn't last long.
Turns out I'm bipolar, & for the longest time, even on meds (or maybe once I went on them - it's been a while) I just had chaotic dreams that had vivid imagery & feelings, & directional awareness, but nothing I could've told anyone about. Since I've been on my current mood stabilizer, my dreams have had plot points and story lines. It's so weird!
I have these very elaborate dreams of like reorganizing my linen closet, but the closet is really big and the linens are really nice and the disappointment to waking up to my actual house and it not being organized like the dream was cannot be overstated. It's almost as bad as waking up angry with your partner for something they did in your dream.
Love the show.
Yes Hank I do get the flashing random images!!
"Dream book" to me is when I fall asleep reading and dream an alternate storyline
As they say on MBMBaM, dream interpretation is really "do you have anxiety or can you sometimes chill and have a good time for five minutes"
I get the random cycling of thoughts. Sometimes images, sometimes thought fragments, sometimes words. It's very common in people with ADHD. It's like standing in a school of fish of thoughts and when you go to catch one it darts away. It used to frustrate me so much before I knew why it was happening.
I love how hank refutes the gamer definition from the science author when hank talked about the Fortnite battle pass as if it’s a subscription XD
the gamer and lucid dream thing checks out for me, gaming is my main hobby and i think i lucid dream every 2-3 months, mostly just being a character from a videogame or an anime i watch, its really fun though, but it dont feel like it lasts more then 5-10 min at a time
I just rewatched the boy mayor of second life series and I also think dogs should vote. And I hadn’t realized the first time I watched it that they play the west wing theme at the beginning of the episodes lol
The idea of recording dreams is an important plot element in the film Until The End of the World, which suggests that it could become addictive as people get wrapped up in reliving them.
The movie Until The End Of The World is partly about the invention of a device that can record and play back a person’s dreams.
The dreams I remember are mostly 3 types - nightmares that my brain just NOPEs out of; those where I spend time with my parents (sometimes reliving situations which actually happened after they died), which are usually nice since we had good relationships; and ... well ... being in Minecraft - which is one of the games I play most.
Back in the old days "the Dreambook" was what people called the Sears Catalog, because you would look through it and dream about buying the stuff you can't afford.
I have the many images going from one to another seemingly out of my control. Me too Hank.
I chuckled at "Dream Book" as a prog rock band. Sly. Also, perhaps some sort of video game episode is in order so Ceri has an excuse to have some fun.
As someone who has had lucid dreams since I can remember, I cannot imagine why ANYONE would want to do it. I guess once or twice might be cool.
But when it gets really bad it just feels like I'm "shifting realities" and not ever sleeping so I'm just tired all the fcking time
Because it often feels like real life, practicing dream control, experiencing being in movies tv shows and books, etc. There's also practical benefits like euphoria, higher self awareness, learning more about yourself, problem solving, skill building, and more
I’ve had “Tetris physics” happen to me before and not just with Tetris. It’s almost like an echo of the networks of neurons, that you’ve spent way too much time strengthening lately, firing again when you enter a trigger situation (ie typing triggers both neurons for preparing to type and fresh neuron networks used playing Tetris). Almost like Deja vu. Don’t know if that’s what’s happening but that’s what I imagine is happening.
😬 as I play candy crush while watching this. 😂😂❤
As a person with narcolepsy I wonder how much crossover there is between lucid dreaming and some types of sleep attacks. 🤔 I have had some attacks where I can't keep my eyes open or respond but I can hear everything that is happening in reality and simultaneously be dreaming and know it. Occasionally I even have some control over dreams with all of that stimulation happening at once. 🤷😁
I dream large, fully consistent worlds that I live in sometimes for days. It kinda sucks lmao
In the lucid dreaming community this is typical referred to as "persistent realms". Despite the esoteric sounding name it doesn't seem to have ties to mysticism at all
@@shadw4701 Well I don't really follow anything mystic as I think there's likely a rational explanation usually, but thanks for the clarification. That being said, that is very interesting and makes sense to me. It is a very persistent world. I am not lucid in the sense of I know I am dreaming, but I am fully conscious and can make choices of my own, I just feel like it's reality when I'm there. It doesn't help that the more of these dreams I have, the more vivid and concrete these locations become. I had an entire multiple city blocks that were detailed where I could go into the buildings from multiple ways over the course of multiple days. There's nothing "scary" about anything that happens ever, in fact it's usually quite mundane. A lot of going to random stores and houses and staying at places and driving and walking etc. I have to physically travel from place to place like it's real life. It's not something I would ever consider a nightmare, but when I wake up, it is very annoying to have to re-orient myself to reality when it just feels like I was away for days in a completely different life.
@WeyounSix Technically that is lucid dreaming as lonh as you know you're in one. A good tip for teleportation is looking at the floor and expecting to be somewhere else. Spinning can also allow you to teleport. As well as doors, when opening one try to imagine a specific place on the other side and really expect it to be there
Many Indian languages use “swapn” for dream, a cognate tast’s pretty true to the alleged original PIE word!
I only remember lucid dreams, and most of them involve flying. Where you intentionally run and leap into the air. I used to game all the time, so I wonder if that's the reason?
regarding succubi and incubi being female and male respectively: that is a more recent thing. The names derive from succubare and incubare which are "to lie beneath" and "to lie atop. In other words, whether the demon is a succubus or incubus depends on the position that the seduction happens in, not the gender. Gender being conflated position is a later (and sexist) addition
I had a dream last night that today's episode of Tangents was gonna be about dreams.
Weird Eh?
My therapist is like an older man so I think he’s got some old school psycho analysis in his training somewhere and sometimes if I mention a dream he’ll try to get to the bottom of it like he’s Detective Freud.
20:10 I have seen an episode of some show where someone was selling cards that did this but were a scam to steal/spy or otherwise manipulate people
Hank's Hypnagogic Hallucinations!
Any insight on why my mind gives me nightmares when I'm starting to overheat? Wakes me up and I have to cool down before I go back to sleep.
That happens to me too. And if I'm thirsty I have nightmares about drowning
I've had somewhat lucid dreaming experiences despite the fact that I haven't played first-person video games since the Atari era (because they became gratuitously violent).
Serbian language has a meaningful ethimology for noun nightmare. The second part, mare, is a noun mora in Serbian. Verb morati means must. Someone is forcibly behaving rowards you, torturing you. Related verbs are umoriti (se), being tired and mreti, to die. So this must be a protoeuropean word which retained meaning in slav languages.
I was under the impression that REM or Dreams don't happen with when you are dozing, Or when you are in deep sleep. It's sort of a realm/phase inbetween. So you tend to remember your dreams from when you are begining to wake up out of deep sleep but are still very much asleep/not awake. I tend to have very vivid dreams. And i think it's because i often have disturbed sleep. I haven't had particularly memberable 'fever dreams'. But my assumption is that people have them BECAUSE the fever disturbs their sleep. They are in deep sleep less, tossing and turning, Uncomfortable because of fever and other illness symptoms (blocked nose). And so just remember their dreams when they wouldn't normally because they are more 'awake'. And the content of the dream being especially weird, like i think Hank said? Mood dependant?
but idk.
"information laundering" is called "wikigenesis"
As someone who works in a fish store and owns a lot. You don't want fish to vote 🤣 there is either 0 thoughts or spite in those little heads. They only desire food, far too easy to bribe 🤣
Ummmm before dogs vote, children should vote! Don’t skip the rest of the human folk!
Show was good, except for Trace's fact, which was people throwing money down a hole pointlessly and wishing for a magic mirror. What a waste.
Soooo... did one of you rush over to Wikipedia?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_laundering