I literally did this “going crazy in a lab” for my dissertation. The general findings were that presence of a magnet definitely changes the way a string oscillates*, but sustain is basically not affected since the interaction is net-zero** * this part is really cool, I wish I could explain in text but you have to look at the 3D graphs, the string sort of appears to “whirl” is the only way I can describe it ** yes, it “pulls” on the string-for half of the motion it is “sucking energy” by decelerating the string as it moves away from the magnet, but the other half of that is adding energy accelerating the string towards the magnet which is increasing the energy of the string. (I ignored the conversion of kinetic into electrical energy, but given the output voltage and current of guitar pickups the energy dissipation here should be order(s) of magnitude lower) *** imo, generally no one is holding a note for so long that any of this matters any way (I would suspect time to -3db (half-power) or -6db or whatever to be more useful metrics, which I didn’t look at) **** the magnets here aren’t dampers, at least by what that means as an engineering term, but they are definitely doing weird stuff
More than sustain, the neck pickup seems to alter the tone slightly. If you like that alteration, that's good. If you don't, well . . .not so much. Seems like it could be another tone tool.
Rick Bailey you can definitely see the tone change in the frequency graphs, the finding was: “The presence of a magnet near a vibrating string appears to reduce the magnitudes of the harmonics near the mode with a node closest to the location of the magnet. [...]”. Again, easier to explain with graphs, all that really matters is that it is different
As far as I can see, this is akin to the interview Phil had with Phil Mosley from BC Rich three years' ago in which he indicated that in the tests that they conducted with BC Rich, bolt-on necks indeed had a tiny bit more sustain that the same model in a set neck, and then a bit more than in the neck-through design but that the differences were, essentially, negligible, and that an average player in a studio or live really would take no notice of it, i.e., who holds a chord for a minute.
Another issue I've always had with regards to sustain debates is that perhaps people are focusing on the wrong thing, in that they're often not talking about sustain when they mention the topic, but that they're in reality talking about the idea of the decay in the sound, not the sustain and that tonal decay is going to be variable across the spectrum of sound that any stringed instrument of any kind can produce and will vary based on string tension, tonal frequency, fretting, etc.
Phil, I honestly didn't pay attention to one thing you said this video, because I could not stop staring at that PRS that they made for you. That thing is still un-friggin'-believable.!
I agree "bigger splash". Assuming you probably won't actually want to hold a note or chord out for 30 seconds in a conceivable musical context...the sustain feels "stronger" somehow for the first several seconds, probably most players if you're holding it out for a bar or two the note or chord I think would feel stronger in a musical context for that duration. So there seems to be some value in removing it if you don't want to use it anyway (or maybe removing it in just one of your guitars)...I think thats what players who would do this are really looking for is a stronger sustain not a longer sustain.
Audio signals are spilt into Attack, decay, sustain and release. The initial attack and decay are both louder with one pickup. Yes, the sustain improved, but the attack and decay are what we’re gaining from removing the pickup
Sustain in the ADSR model is a totally different beast. There it means "the steady-state level after the decay has elapsed" and will last forever. It's meaningless to talk about sustain _time,_ it only makes sense to talk about sustain _level._ You're making the mistake of assuming the same word means the same thing in two different cases. It doesn't.
What's more important to me is when that big dip in decay first happens. That's the difference between a guitar note that sings and one that seems muffled. If I'm seeing the waveform right, the "no bridge" decays quicker in the first three seconds for both the single note and chord. If I'd hazard to guess, the initial pull of the pickup is having a trampoline effect that helps the initially but dampens when the note volume lowers.
This doesn’t really tell you anything about “sustain” the way people talk about it in the context of a guitar though. The importance isn’t t really the difference between 34 and 35 seconds, but the difference in volume at 4-5 seconds. Also, the difference in 1 second decay is almost certainly more due to subtle difference in the force the string is struck rather then the effect of a very weak magnetic field
Hmm. Whilst Phil's test is certainly not exactly scientific, he points out that he tried the same test multiple times each and whilst the results varied (as per human error), it was consistently longer in every test without the neck and that he noted the outliers. I mean, a small chart or graph would have been nice to see all the results of a test. Without hearing all the clips, with good headphones there is a noticeable increase in initial attack on all the clips he did show and I don't think it's human error. It's a different sound. Especially the 13:15 example where he played a little lick. It's quite a significant difference. You could A/B that all day and notice the the treble ringing out differently in the second example and it's not picking difference. It's fairly significant, and I don't consider myself to be one with "good" hearing. Hell, I know a guy with those ears Phil mentioned and I'm a million miles away from that! :D Also, the magnetic field isn't exactly strong, but it's not very weak. It's strong enough to make a minor impact on the strings, especially strings loosing their energy. After all, the signal is created by the magnet field... I'd say his results are probably quite fair and within a decent margin of error for a simple home experiment. Good enough to prove the validity of the argument at least.
@@naycnay again, the important part of the signal curve as it relates to "sustain" used in the guitar context isn't an imperceptible interval difference at a string resonating for 35 seconds, It's probably the signal to time curve over first 1/3rd of that length of time with a clean signal (ie. not overdriven or compressed which can introduce a sustain effect). With a human plucking the string you have that potentially affecting things, especially with these small differences observed.
I came in thinking there would be a negligible difference. And primarily in sustain. But wow this changed my mind. The sustain didn't seem much difference but the tone difference in regard to attack, top end and overall output was huge.
Thanks for doing this! SCIENCE! I'm totally with you; rather have the neck pickup than a negligible amount of sustain. HOWEVER, for a shred guitar? 1 pickup all the way because it looks cool.
Great video. I like your take on this--very rational and balanced. It's important to note that there are small differences but these differences are subtle and for most guitarists they wont notice, nor care much about the subtlety. With that said, guitarists (some of them anyway) pay a lot of attention to detail, and the smallest differences can be important to them, that is the beauty and the curse of being a guitarist lol.
I agree that sustain is very important, however when playing I go through cords and notes much faster then 38 seconds. So for me it’s that much of a issue. Am I wrong in my thinking??? I’m sure someone will be happy to let me know. Thank for the testing Phil.
From Leo: Listen to a tape of your last gig. How many times did you let a note ring over 5 seconds? Listeners respond to energy and/or melody. You have to keep the music going to keep them involved. I have never thought of guitar being the right instrument for the long droning of binaural beats. I have a few single pickup guitars, but they are hollow body archtops, the the pickup is by the neck (or on the neck)
I have recordings where I use the decay of a sustained, distorted guitar note as an effect in its own right,, and might hold one note ten to fifteen seconds. The tone will seem to "sing" as harmonics fade in and out, and eventually it's just boosting static with a pinch of signal. This isn't intended to be the melody, but more of a haunting thing going on in the background. That said, more sustain is not automatically better, since I want things to happen at a rate that fits the song -- but it's a lot easier to reduce sustain with playing technique than to add it.
I agree leave the front pickup in. If you need a longer note you'll hit it again because it died off too far. Or do like we did in the 70s, crank up your full stack, stand close and point the guitar at the speaker and let the volume from the speaker vibrate the strings. Sustain forever. Know your gear. Lost art of the low wattage croud. "If it's too loud, your too old". Good experiment. Thanks Phil.
It’s the second harmonic. You can hear it when he hits that chord. Which makes sense, because the neck pickup is right where the 2nd is vibrating the most which means that’s the overtone it will subtract the most. Or whatever harmonic has it’s maximum amplitude right over the neck pup.
Hi Phil, Thanks for your wonderful channel and your lovely attitude & curiosity. Your test takes me back to one of my biggest set up lessons that I will try to describe below. I’d be very interested to hear your thoughts. I have a “Frankenstein” Les Paul Copy that has a complement of electronics that were developed over 20-years. I paid a very talented local guitar shop to duplicate the exact electronics package on a band new guitar with similar construction and scale length. When I got it home and compared the guitars side by side, the new guitar was VERY disappointing. I’ll skip past all the frustration and hair pulling but the pickups in the new guitar were choking the sustain because they were too tall. My new method to fine tune a guitar is to start with all pick ups as low as they can be and slowly raise them until I can feel the dampening start to occur. I then lower them off until I’m back to maximum sustain. The final step is to balance the pickups for volume in the middle switch positions. I always lower one of the pickups to achieve the balance so that sustain is maximized. All this to say that I think starting with the manufacturers recommended pickup height may not always yield the best results. These days, I only check the manufacturer’s specs when I’m done to see if my results jive. All the best and thanks for a great UA-cam Channel! Jeff Schmitz
Hi Phil. When you talk about the "bloom" what I'm hearing is that the single pickup setup is allowing more of the upper harmonics ring longer while the double pickup pushes the 3rd harmonic of a fifth. I'm more of a bass/keyboard player and use the drawbars on my Hammond to pull out these harmonics to get the sound I want. In both cases a graphic equalizer may be all that's needed to make up the difference.
Your comment about 'not compressed' is about spot on. The string can just ring along with any harmonics along the length without the magnetic dampening at the neck pickup position. The bridge pickup also interferes, but unless you want to go to Piezo Bridge only you have to have the bridge pickup.
Like you, I couldn’t distinguish much of an audible difference in the beginning. It does go up in length, but who is letting things ring out for 20secs. anyway?! BUT! I fully agree with your findings that the pickup being in the guitar does DAMPEN the attack and other things. That’s a valid difference, more so than the sustain. It makes much more sense. I didn’t realize this was a debated topic among guitarists, but you just solved it for them💯
I think you made a good test. Your results made me more interested in the Cycfi Nu polyphonic pickups because they have individual coils for each string and a Permalloy (anti-magnetic) shield around each coil.
The 'held notes' during the solo were all the evidence I needed (Although I could hear it during the early part of the video with the single note and chords). Removing the neck pickup quiet clearly increases the fullness of held notes when soloing. So if you want more melody and harmonic content that that looks like the way to go. I knew Phil X was on to something! :) Thanks for doing this test!!
When I 1st saw the title my question was what Phil is going to do with the lack of weight of not having the neck pickup. Few seconds in Phil the Man cleared the confusion. Great way to solve that problem. I own a a few good quality single pickup guitars. My basic understanding is those guitars have a better attack and tone of the bridge pickup. I do have a bunch of 2/3 pickup guitars that have better sustain than single humbucker guitars. End of the day my conclusion is each guitars are like people . They all look similar but unique in their own way. Some have good sustain and some don't. Thanks for the video.
I am impressed with you scientific method, good work! You may want to calculate rate of decay, rather than length of time so that you remove level of attack from biasing the data. Your fairly large sample sizes help though.
I don't know about keeping the guitar the same, but I removed the neck pickup from a tele partscaster I own, added a used american made (modern) fender esquire/boardcaster bridge pup, and wired a four position selector with the standard esquire layuot, and edridge wha mod in the fourth position, and it is the best sounding guitar I have.There is something about a single pickup guitar that I like as well maybe the simplicity.
@13:18 was the neck pickup still at the very high position? To my ears the last riff comparison was very dramatically different. However, I'm not sure if this is because the neck pickup was slammed up against the strings. ???
The ideas about the neck pickup "compressing" the note makes sense. The displacement of the string when it is initially plucked is much higher than the "sustain" part of the note, so the initial transients will get closer to the pickup and, in theory, get more "damped" by the neck pickup magnets. Really interesting experiment.
I'm listening with a reasonable quality DAC and headphones. I'm hearing a difference in the two...primarily in the very early stages of the notes...slightly raunchier sound without the neck pickup. To those that don't think the magnetic field would impact the sustain on a string, this experiment absolutely proves the answer is YES because when the pickup is raised, sustain decreases. So it stands to reason and its logical that removing pickups would also impact the amount of sustain. The really interesting point to me though is that experiment shows that there is a tonal difference as well.
This had to be a pretty boring video to make but it was fun to watch. I really appreciate the scientific method employed for the test. I think the most important things to note are how important pickup height matters and when it comes to tone, everything matters.. it's just a matter of how much and how precise of a tone your ear can recognize.
Good job on the video, I love this kind of comparison! If this is popular and you want to go further, I'd like to see a video comparing not the TOTAL sustain time, but how long each sustains MOST (say 80%) of the volume. That would show more of how each configuration would show in a song, as guitarists don't actually let notes ring out for 30 seconds very often.
OK so, theoretically, a wire moving in a magnetic field has a current induced in it, and a current in a magnetic field experiences a force, which OUGHT to dampen the movement of the (conducting) string but we are talking milliamps here. Maybe microamps. I would guess that air resistance is a more significant factor. Try measuring sustain on a sunny day vs a rainy day (high pressure vs low pressure) or up in Montana vs Florida. Seriously, I can't hear any difference, though I am listening via UA-cam on a laptop computer, and I am very old. :-)
Hi Andy. Try to listen moments when Philip plays on Marshall some licks. Please pay attention to the long vibrated notes, especially their "tails". No-neck one sounds better, in my opinion
@@vaughanmacegan4012 don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that nobody needs anything but bridge pickup :) yes, strats are versatile. Having more options usually better. But I think it's nice to have one pickup guitar. It must not be a first or only guitar of course. Maybe even second. But I'd like to have one just for this nice sound
BTW it would be a perfection if somebody invented something to turn pickup magnetic field off. And we could have both of two worlds! What if replace magnet with electric magnet? Hmmmm :)
@@vaughanmacegan4012 yes, why not? Trust me, I'm an engineer :) no, seriously, there are electric engines which use constant magnets - DC engines and some AC ones. Asynchronous AC engines don't have any magnet in, but work on electro magnetic principles. When current goes through the wire, the magnetic field appears around it. So you always can replace constant magnet with the copper coil under voltage
As someone else mentioned I believe a single bridge pickup at the bridge along with a solid piece of wood ( no routering hole for the neck pickup ) increases sustain due to increased vibrations from a solid connection. Someone else says he prefers the variety of having two pickups and that trumps any 30+ seconds of sustain. Personally I do not wait that long between notes :}
I had a similar experience when I took the back plate off my strat. I didn’t think it could make a difference, but it made a subtle difference, and I liked the sound with it off better.
The only thing that you should be doing in there is putting foam in your bridge springs to shut them up. It doesn't improve the sound through the amp, but getting rid of the "tink tink tink" of springs loading and unloading makes it more pleasant for the player.
Mick Taylor from TPS said a lot of famous strat players say that removing the back plate improves the tone, and he agrees with them, which is why he keeps the back plate off of his. I tried it, and it does take some of the mid range out of the guitar. To me it sounds more “stratty”
@@BJamin4God I guess I can believe it if that back plate is either metal or shielded on the inside. Removing a ground plane means more of the magnetic field will be free to extend in that direction -- away from the strings, which will change the frequency response of the pickups. But my kit build has a plain plastic cover plate and that's not going to make a lick of difference when removed. Metal back plates do exist, but most often show up on guitars that are themselves largely metal. Shielded back plates, on the other hand, I have actually seen. I know the big slab on the bottom of a Tele pickup changes its pattern and thus its tone, and to put it simply, "shit gets weird" (meaning, the physics become extremely difficult to calculate).
This is exactly the kind of of content that I'm subbed to you for, @Phil McKnight Right on! I actually think I understand the subtle difference it makes and why phil x and many metal guys prefer the "no neck pickup" thing.
Thanks for this test! There has been a lot of new interest in the Esquire lately and Fender just released a new one. On a guitar forum I frequent many (including me) are talking about converting Teles to Esquires or building kits. Those that have done it all like the sound and the simplicity. I'm converting a cheap import Tele with a new pickguard and the actual Fender bridge, saddles and pickup are inexpensive. And we love the Esquire for the (slightly) different sound, harmonics and attack, not any real difference in sustain.
You could remove the neck pickup but keep the 3 way switch and wire it as two stage low pass filter to imitate the warmer sound of the neck pickup. It won't be the same sound but it would give back some of the flexibility of having a neck pickup.
Hi Philip, You can easily hear how the dynamics are dampened with the neck PU in place! But, if you will, can you do the same experiment 1. with single coils at the neck position and 2. HB VS SC (to compare ) to hear the difference and how they affects the dynamics of the instrument ! * also same magnet material, magnetic strength, etc ...
I've always heard people say that the reason to have a guitar with just the bridge pickup is to have more output volume... Never heard nothing (in this situation) about sustain
I was just watching your video on myths guitarist believe are true. I hear lemon oil lemon oil lemon oil. I've actually never used any. I actually found a pawn shop guitar in the late 80s with an unfinished neck. Shoot I've always used Floyd rose tremolos. And back then most Kramer's had one. I always liked to take from one and throw things together. It was cheaper and I got a lot of guitars that way. A Kramer you could get sometimes like $50 to $100 bucks back then. Well I got one with a WarMoth neck. Unfinished locking but shaped like a Stratocaster headstock. It had some bad spots so I sanded it smooth again. I done hardwood floors to so I knew wood needed protecting. I just used that Murphy's oil soap. I had different necks through the years. When is clean the gunk off the finger board and sand the back of the neck to get it smooth I'd put some on leave it about 5 minutes and buff it off. I never had a problem I've had Ebony finger boards birdseye Maple even one with a purple heart skunk stripe. That purple heart is beautiful wood. I later found out they have lemon oil. But I always used the oil soap. $4.00 and I used one bottle for years. Honestly I never had a problem. Most of the necks was in all kinds of weather also. I don't know the feel of raw breathing wood. Like in winter months I would smear it on. If you've ever seen gaps in a hardwood floor. That from putting wood down with moisture in it the heat word be used and that wood would really drink up. What's your thoughts on Murphy's oil soap? Oh yeah. I wasn't like using a lot either. Just like waxing a car then buff it off in a few minutes with a cotton towel.
It sounds more open without the neck pickup. It seems to compress the note a bit with that pickup in. More sustain and more attack without. But you're right, the versatility of having both pickups still wins.
Eddie Van Halen says there is a difference and that was his consideration with his Frankenstein. I think there are some other factors such as the type of bridge, wood density, string gauge, and pickup height of the rear bridge. I think the player's hands will also impact the tone and sustain affecting results.
Ok, my two cents. I could care less about the impact on sustain. What you aptly termed bloom is the important part. There are a lot more harmonics and just a fuller sound from the single pickup. I stumbled on this years ago before I knew it was a thing. I had an Ibanez S series that I loved but I wanted to try out Nuno's pickup setup in it to see what it sounded like. He had a Bill Lawrence in the bridge, and a knock off of a gibson something or other in the neck. I ordered both of them at the same time. The neck pickup went back ordered so I got the bridge pickup first. So as a temp deal (because I had no patience) I installed the bridge and left the neck empty. I also cut out the tone. So just a bridge and volume control. It was beautiful!!! Eventually the other pickup came in and I eagerly installed it. And it sounded great. But when I switch to the bridge I literally thought I had wired something wrong because the sound was so different. (By the way I make my living working on electronics, for my whole life so its not like I can't wire a guitar.) So I started thru all kinds of adjustments, but never could get it back to the way I liked it until I just yanked the whole pickup out. Even disconnected it just didn't have what it had before. So I pulled it out and that guitar has stayed that way since. It was after that I started noticing in a lot of videos of Rock guys on stage having an empty spot in their neck pickup. Now, that said. I like a certain tone with lots of harmonic squeals and such. If that is not your thing, probably doesn't matter. Also that Bill Lawrence is really hot so you can here everything. As for having tonal variety, when you find the right setting on your amp suddenly your volume control will also be your tone control. Simplifies everything. But you do have to spend the time to find it. Also if you can invest in new fingers you will find better tone. That is where most of the tone lives. As an afterthought, I should say, I was playing thru headphones a lot so as not to disturb the wife. I think that really clarifies the sound a little more also.
I have a single pickup (H) "beginners" guitar that I have had since I was in my teens that I have kept all these years because it sings and squeals (pinch harmonics) better than any other guitar I have ever played. The humbucker is pretty hot but I have had hotter in other guitars and not had them sound as good, sustain as well or squeal as easily/loud. Not great for clean tones or light crunch but throw on some drive and crank the amp and it just gives you chills. My LP by comparison sustains and squeals less impressively even when I had a pair of EMGs in it (back to the PAFs now). I almost put an EMG in the hotrod but decided not to mess with what was already working for me in case I couldn't put it back right. I have had quite a few single pickup guitars over the years and always liked them, even my Fender Musicmaster with it's single, slant, single coil neck pickup felt like it sustained better. One of those guitars you regret selling :(
This is fairly common physics grad school problem, when the Prof is a guitar player. The magnetic field from the pickup barely affects the strings in the vertical direction, i.e. perpendicular to the pickup. It does affect the string vibration in the horizontal direction across the pickup which results in suppressing the output of the higher harmonics. With two or more pickups it’s even more complex. This is probably why it sounded more full without the neck pickup. This effect will also change the sustain to a small degree as the pickup is changing the vibrational modes of the string.
It’s simple physics. The work done by pushing around in the magnetic field necessarily causes sustain loss. But your video showed that the difference was appreciable for the neck pickup
Philip, I think where this idea has come from; think of a les Paul junior with no neck pickup-itynecause it has more wood( not being routed) so simply putting something in the hole is making little difference, but possibly having that small amount of extra wood makes only minute changes of sound anyway.In your test the bottom end of the note fed back a little microphonically into the pickup a few times making the note longer as well.What would be a better test is to compare two tele's - one being an esquire( unrouted neck pickup cavity), and the other, a regular but similar bodied two pickup telecaster: because I think this is where thud idea originated , surely that's where you could perhaps be looking. Anyway thanks for your posts which I often find informative and interesting.(please excuse my poor typing on this old phone)
Many Esquire and Junior owners would agree, that one pickup is best. Wes Montgomery's L-5 also sounds great, with just a neck pickup. I like the versatility of two pickups, so I stick with that formula.
Exactly what I was thinking. I swear only one pickup sounds just a bit better. Prob placebo with seeing it. I feel like it has more sizzle in bridge, and neck only just sounds better. Maybe less sustain if he used an open coil pickup in the neck as well. I'm surprised by the results still.
If you lose the bridge pickup you probably wont notice a difference at all, as it would probably be less effective due to the smaller amplitudes closer to the string's endpoints. So im not sure it would be worth losing a bridge pickup over a neck one, if you had to lose one.
@@PaperKhaos Good point. Also neck pickup only guitars are a special breed so hard to make a comparison. And they always have highly skilled people playing them.
This might be due to resistance. You figure, getting rid of either pickup will also eliminate all the wiring involved, the extra Pot(s), the switch, etc. In Phil's experiment, the wiring is all still there, only the pickup, itself, is eliminated. I plan on building a guitar with simply 1 pickup, placed centrally, and a volume pot, with no tone adjustment.
I think it would be best to do that blindfolded. I really think if your pickup is affecting the string vibration by it's flux, you might be set to close to the string. It really does not need much with a good hot signal setup (pickups, strings, electrics, pedals, amp).
My main ax has only a bridge humbucker and so far I have found no need for a neck pickup. Where you pick (or pluck) on the string makes a huge difference.
in the case of guitar pick-ups, the string is a moving magnet (magnetized by the magnet in the pick-up). The induced current, is not in the string (which is grounded anyway...) but in the pick-up coil, and from there it proceeds towards the amp...For sure, the magnetized string moving in the pick-up magnetic field will sense a force working against its vibration (afterall you are moving a magnet close to another magnet). It shouldn't be so difficult to actually calculate or simulate that, starting from some realistic data and geometric details. Check this link here: www.physics.udel.edu/~nowak/phys208/Labs/FaradayLaw.pdf
There's so many different facets to this argument. Humbucker versus single coil, bolt-on versus set neck versus neck thru, neck versus bridge, the odd triple humbucker guitar, fixed bridge versus tremolo, Floyd Rose versus Fender, on and on. There's so many variables. In the end, find a guitar and pickup set that you like and enjoy!
sustain is made by your hands, how well you play and your knowledge of the guitar. i have bought 90 dollar guitars at pawnshops and had sustain through the roof.
have you tried comparing the damping effect from a single coil pickup to that of a humbucker? Also how much does lowering the pickup change that effect?
I literally just built a bridge humbucker only guitar for this very reason! I noticed the same pickup in a bridge only guitar sounded hotter and had better sustain than in an HSH guitar. Same exact pickup swapped between two different guitars. So I built a guitar with bridge only humbucker and volume only. Much hotter and way better attack.
I wonder if it's the magnets of the neck pickup having the effect, or magnets+windings? Is the energy being lost due to current induced in the neck winding? The neck circuit is broken, but has capacitance, so in an AC sense, current can still flow a little.
I can't find it right now, but once I watched a video where they built a guitar with a slotted channel to slide the neck pickup in and out: they played the guitar while someone else was randomly sliding the pickup in and out, and you could definitely hear these same differences.
I did a little experimenting also and marked the times, then listened to the sound samples w/o talking in between. When the neck pup was taken out I thought I heard the note(s) bloom and have a more complete sound (I wanted to say better, but depends on what you are aiming for?) Overall, I liked the sound with 1 pup better than both. The neck pup has to have some affect on the string, good, bad or indifferent. It is just there acting on it. Same without. I think I like without better. I have 2 brand new SM pine bodies, necks and components. When I find the time I will assemble them and try the/a test. Or maybe send them to Phil. 8) JMHO.... --gary
I'll add some spice: in my personal tests on strats if the middle has the same polarity of the bridge and neck the sustain is longer and the harmonics are wider than with a middle RWRP, you loose the hum cancelling effect in 2 and 4 but to my ears the guitar sounds better. Try it by yourself, worth a test
I really have no idea if that neck pup does much to affect the sound, but I wonder if people who remove it, like Phil X, feel something different when playing. Like the guitar/amp gives back in a different way, not just sustain. And that that accounts for the difference in sound. They adjust differently to what the guitar gives back which changes the way they play in a subtle way that they can hear/feel/sense as not as optimal. As they have honed their craft, they become accustomed to the subtle differences, or at least, sense there is a difference even if they cannot always put their finger on what it is exactly. It's kind of like how a person can pick up one guitar and love it, pick up another guitar, even one that's similar, and just not connect in the same way.
Hi i have a Floyd Rose strat deluxe Mexico, a got really Bad sustain problems, pinched harmonics not always works too, but on any other guitar it works. So how can i improve the sustain of my strat? thx for help...
What if you pulled the bridge pickup? Does pickup position make a difference? Having one vs two pickups... does a single one generally sound more resonant due to the absence of the second pickup dampening the strings?
this could be why hss or hs setups are so popular. i personally don't really care about HH setups or HSH setups particularly because i like the since coil sound for neck tones. i have a sixty six and the middle pickup is super low with a jason becker in the bridge and this thing is my favorite guitar ever, hands down. current stock mexi tele pickups are great for that just right kind of balance.
Clearly a difference between the 2 in both sound and sustain. The other big attribute about single bucker guitars people talk about is that the removal of the tone pot and switch from the circuit also adds to the tone since the signal has less to go thru to filter it before it exits the guitar. So if it's this obvious already I'm sure it will be even more obvious with those removed as well. I never thought this was a myth since it's always been obvious that single bucker guitars just have a certain character that regular guitars just don't have. Nice test though, it only proves people like myself aren't crazy. :)
It definitely changes the tone of the bridge pickup. The vibratos (sorry for my English) sound much more delicious without the neck pickup. This low gain amp shows the difference really well. Especially when you raised the neck pickup too high. I mean, if it didn't, esquire would have not been created. Man, not I want one more guitar :)
I have a Jr and gold top all with p90s and in bridge mode they sound real different, I replaced the orig bridge pu on the goldtop with a hotter demarzio because next to jr it sounded dull. Jr has a certain pop to it I havnt found anywhere. It's the ultimate hard rock machine and my first choice for live
The sound wave overlay got me thinking: whatabout getting the string up to power with an ebow? Release and then start the timer? OR ebow on and compare amplitude between no-neck/neck pickup. Does the neck pickup exert enough pull on the string to dilute vibration (signal)? Haha, anyway, I can't HEAR a difference and that might matter more.
I noticed a big gain in sustain when I had a graphtech nut put on my epiphone les paul custom pro to replace the plastic nut it came with. I wonder if all the sustain Angus gets from his Marshall's is due to that Shaffer Replica box he uses?!Have you used one of those Phil?
Very interesting, but I wonder, is it diminished because there is a neck pickup, or because there are 2 pickups? In other words, if you did the same type of swap between the rear pickup and the dummy, would the neck pickup Sustain longer as well.
Is the change specifically due to removing the neck pick-up (I know that's what your test was) or would you get the same results if you removed the bridge pick-up? That is, is it the location of the pick-up you're removing, or just that you're down to one?
Cool experiment! I'd be cool to this type of tests with a spectrum analyzer, seems the frequencies damped by the neck pick up make more difference than the overall sustain.
I literally did this “going crazy in a lab” for my dissertation. The general findings were that presence of a magnet definitely changes the way a string oscillates*, but sustain is basically not affected since the interaction is net-zero**
* this part is really cool, I wish I could explain in text but you have to look at the 3D graphs, the string sort of appears to “whirl” is the only way I can describe it
** yes, it “pulls” on the string-for half of the motion it is “sucking energy” by decelerating the string as it moves away from the magnet, but the other half of that is adding energy accelerating the string towards the magnet which is increasing the energy of the string. (I ignored the conversion of kinetic into electrical energy, but given the output voltage and current of guitar pickups the energy dissipation here should be order(s) of magnitude lower)
*** imo, generally no one is holding a note for so long that any of this matters any way (I would suspect time to -3db (half-power) or -6db or whatever to be more useful metrics, which I didn’t look at)
**** the magnets here aren’t dampers, at least by what that means as an engineering term, but they are definitely doing weird stuff
More than sustain, the neck pickup seems to alter the tone slightly. If you like that alteration, that's good. If you don't, well . . .not so much. Seems like it could be another tone tool.
This sounds like it was an awesome project. I hope you enjoyed it!
Rick Bailey you can definitely see the tone change in the frequency graphs, the finding was: “The presence of a magnet near a vibrating string appears to reduce the magnitudes of the harmonics near the mode with a node closest to the location of the magnet. [...]”.
Again, easier to explain with graphs, all that really matters is that it is different
Good_king_guitarman thanks, I really did!
I hope @PhillipMcKnight gets a chance to look at this. This is really interesting
As far as I can see, this is akin to the interview Phil had with Phil Mosley from BC Rich three years' ago in which he indicated that in the tests that they conducted with BC Rich, bolt-on necks indeed had a tiny bit more sustain that the same model in a set neck, and then a bit more than in the neck-through design but that the differences were, essentially, negligible, and that an average player in a studio or live really would take no notice of it, i.e., who holds a chord for a minute.
Another issue I've always had with regards to sustain debates is that perhaps people are focusing on the wrong thing, in that they're often not talking about sustain when they mention the topic, but that they're in reality talking about the idea of the decay in the sound, not the sustain and that tonal decay is going to be variable across the spectrum of sound that any stringed instrument of any kind can produce and will vary based on string tension, tonal frequency, fretting, etc.
In my older age I'll have to be a hard no and go for the versatility of the 2. Get off my lawn!!
That is cool because it is your lawn. Play what you like at every age.
Dr. Reason amen!
This is why we have more than one guitar
@@billybudd45 absolutely!! Me too!
Everyone else that doesn't own a hundred guitars agrees
I've been thinking for a week now, "Phil should do the single pickup test with his weird pickup switch guitar." and BOOM! you read my mind. wow.
Phil, I honestly didn't pay attention to one thing you said this video, because I could not stop staring at that PRS that they made for you. That thing is still un-friggin'-believable.!
I agree "bigger splash". Assuming you probably won't actually want to hold a note or chord out for 30 seconds in a conceivable musical context...the sustain feels "stronger" somehow for the first several seconds, probably most players if you're holding it out for a bar or two the note or chord I think would feel stronger in a musical context for that duration. So there seems to be some value in removing it if you don't want to use it anyway (or maybe removing it in just one of your guitars)...I think thats what players who would do this are really looking for is a stronger sustain not a longer sustain.
Audio signals are spilt into Attack, decay, sustain and release.
The initial attack and decay are both louder with one pickup. Yes, the sustain improved, but the attack and decay are what we’re gaining from removing the pickup
Sustain in the ADSR model is a totally different beast. There it means "the steady-state level after the decay has elapsed" and will last forever. It's meaningless to talk about sustain _time,_ it only makes sense to talk about sustain _level._
You're making the mistake of assuming the same word means the same thing in two different cases. It doesn't.
What's more important to me is when that big dip in decay first happens. That's the difference between a guitar note that sings and one that seems muffled. If I'm seeing the waveform right, the "no bridge" decays quicker in the first three seconds for both the single note and chord. If I'd hazard to guess, the initial pull of the pickup is having a trampoline effect that helps the initially but dampens when the note volume lowers.
This doesn’t really tell you anything about “sustain” the way people talk about it in the context of a guitar though. The importance isn’t t really the difference between 34 and 35 seconds, but the difference in volume at 4-5 seconds. Also, the difference in 1 second decay is almost certainly more due to subtle difference in the force the string is struck rather then the effect of a very weak magnetic field
Hmm. Whilst Phil's test is certainly not exactly scientific, he points out that he tried the same test multiple times each and whilst the results varied (as per human error), it was consistently longer in every test without the neck and that he noted the outliers. I mean, a small chart or graph would have been nice to see all the results of a test.
Without hearing all the clips, with good headphones there is a noticeable increase in initial attack on all the clips he did show and I don't think it's human error. It's a different sound. Especially the 13:15 example where he played a little lick. It's quite a significant difference. You could A/B that all day and notice the the treble ringing out differently in the second example and it's not picking difference. It's fairly significant, and I don't consider myself to be one with "good" hearing. Hell, I know a guy with those ears Phil mentioned and I'm a million miles away from that! :D
Also, the magnetic field isn't exactly strong, but it's not very weak. It's strong enough to make a minor impact on the strings, especially strings loosing their energy. After all, the signal is created by the magnet field... I'd say his results are probably quite fair and within a decent margin of error for a simple home experiment. Good enough to prove the validity of the argument at least.
@@naycnay again, the important part of the signal curve as it relates to "sustain" used in the guitar context isn't an imperceptible interval difference at a string resonating for 35 seconds, It's probably the signal to time curve over first 1/3rd of that length of time with a clean signal (ie. not overdriven or compressed which can introduce a sustain effect). With a human plucking the string you have that potentially affecting things, especially with these small differences observed.
I came in thinking there would be a negligible difference. And primarily in sustain. But wow this changed my mind. The sustain didn't seem much difference but the tone difference in regard to attack, top end and overall output was huge.
Thanks for doing this! SCIENCE! I'm totally with you; rather have the neck pickup than a negligible amount of sustain. HOWEVER, for a shred guitar? 1 pickup all the way because it looks cool.
I did notice the difference in the "punch" coming from the single pickup in the 1st test. You are right!
This has always been a bit of a debate in my circle. You pretty much showed my exact thoughts. Thanks for sharing!!
Great video. I like your take on this--very rational and balanced. It's important to note that there are small differences but these differences are subtle and for most guitarists they wont notice, nor care much about the subtlety. With that said, guitarists (some of them anyway) pay a lot of attention to detail, and the smallest differences can be important to them, that is the beauty and the curse of being a guitarist lol.
I agree that sustain is very important, however when playing I go through cords and notes much faster then 38 seconds. So for me it’s that much of a issue. Am I wrong in my thinking??? I’m sure someone will be happy to let me know. Thank for the testing Phil.
i would make the assumption , longer sustain would have an effect on the bloom and decay of the note even if just for a moment.
Think about the extra second or 2 being on front of the note not the end
I think the sound for the first second or two is much better without the neck pickup. More open and more harmonically rich.
Yeah... it’s not that big of a deal, really.
Everything just goes back player preference, and each player’s opinion of what sounds best to their ears.
The sustain the matters more to me is the high notes sustain. If the A string goes for 28 or 33 seconds is really irrelevant.
From Leo: Listen to a tape of your last gig. How many times did you let a note ring over 5 seconds? Listeners respond to energy and/or melody. You have to keep the music going to keep them involved. I have never thought of guitar being the right instrument for the long droning of binaural beats. I have a few single pickup guitars, but they are hollow body archtops, the the pickup is by the neck (or on the neck)
I have recordings where I use the decay of a sustained, distorted guitar note as an effect in its own right,, and might hold one note ten to fifteen seconds. The tone will seem to "sing" as harmonics fade in and out, and eventually it's just boosting static with a pinch of signal. This isn't intended to be the melody, but more of a haunting thing going on in the background.
That said, more sustain is not automatically better, since I want things to happen at a rate that fits the song -- but it's a lot easier to reduce sustain with playing technique than to add it.
I agree leave the front pickup in. If you need a longer note you'll hit it again because it died off too far. Or do like we did in the 70s, crank up your full stack, stand close and point the guitar at the speaker and let the volume from the speaker vibrate the strings. Sustain forever. Know your gear. Lost art of the low wattage croud. "If it's too loud, your too old". Good experiment. Thanks Phil.
It’s the second harmonic. You can hear it when he hits that chord. Which makes sense, because the neck pickup is right where the 2nd is vibrating the most which means that’s the overtone it will subtract the most. Or whatever harmonic has it’s maximum amplitude right over the neck pup.
Hi Phil, Thanks for your wonderful channel and your lovely attitude & curiosity. Your test takes me back to one of my biggest set up lessons that I will try to describe below. I’d be very interested to hear your thoughts. I have a “Frankenstein” Les Paul Copy that has a complement of electronics that were developed over 20-years. I paid a very talented local guitar shop to duplicate the exact electronics package on a band new guitar with similar construction and scale length. When I got it home and compared the guitars side by side, the new guitar was VERY disappointing. I’ll skip past all the frustration and hair pulling but the pickups in the new guitar were choking the sustain because they were too tall. My new method to fine tune a guitar is to start with all pick ups as low as they can be and slowly raise them until I can feel the dampening start to occur. I then lower them off until I’m back to maximum sustain. The final step is to balance the pickups for volume in the middle switch positions. I always lower one of the pickups to achieve the balance so that sustain is maximized. All this to say that I think starting with the manufacturers recommended pickup height may not always yield the best results. These days, I only check the manufacturer’s specs when I’m done to see if my results jive. All the best and thanks for a great UA-cam Channel! Jeff Schmitz
Hi Phil. When you talk about the "bloom" what I'm hearing is that the single pickup setup is allowing more of the upper harmonics ring longer while the double pickup pushes the 3rd harmonic of a fifth. I'm more of a bass/keyboard player and use the drawbars on my Hammond to pull out these harmonics to get the sound I want. In both cases a graphic equalizer may be all that's needed to make up the difference.
Your comment about 'not compressed' is about spot on. The string can just ring along with any harmonics along the length without the magnetic dampening at the neck pickup position. The bridge pickup also interferes, but unless you want to go to Piezo Bridge only you have to have the bridge pickup.
Like you, I couldn’t distinguish much of an audible difference in the beginning. It does go up in length, but who is letting things ring out for 20secs. anyway?! BUT! I fully agree with your findings that the pickup being in the guitar does DAMPEN the attack and other things. That’s a valid difference, more so than the sustain. It makes much more sense.
I didn’t realize this was a debated topic among guitarists, but you just solved it for them💯
I think you made a good test. Your results made me more interested in the Cycfi Nu polyphonic pickups because they have individual coils for each string and a Permalloy (anti-magnetic) shield around each coil.
The 'held notes' during the solo were all the evidence I needed (Although I could hear it during the early part of the video with the single note and chords). Removing the neck pickup quiet clearly increases the fullness of held notes when soloing. So if you want more melody and harmonic content that that looks like the way to go. I knew Phil X was on to something! :) Thanks for doing this test!!
When I 1st saw the title my question was what Phil is going to do with the lack of weight of not having the neck pickup. Few seconds in Phil the Man cleared the confusion. Great way to solve that problem. I own a a few good quality single pickup guitars. My basic understanding is those guitars have a better attack and tone of the bridge pickup. I do have a bunch of 2/3 pickup guitars that have better sustain than single humbucker guitars. End of the day my conclusion is each guitars are like people . They all look similar but unique in their own way. Some have good sustain and some don't. Thanks for the video.
...and the stoner doom crowd is screaming " God no! The best tones come from that neck pickup!" \m/
Easy solution: remove the bridge pickup instead. :)
Jazz too. You can't be Joe Pass without a neck pickup. Of course I can't be Joe Pass, period, so...
Bridge pickup=usless
If I had to choose one it would no doubt be a neck pickup. Luckily I don't have to choose 😁
wtf is stoner metal? litetally the worst guitar tones ever
I am impressed with you scientific method, good work! You may want to calculate rate of decay, rather than length of time so that you remove level of attack from biasing the data. Your fairly large sample sizes help though.
I don't know about keeping the guitar the same, but I removed the neck pickup from a tele partscaster I own, added a used american made (modern) fender esquire/boardcaster bridge pup, and wired a four position selector with the standard esquire layuot, and edridge wha mod in the fourth position, and it is the best sounding guitar I have.There is something about a single pickup guitar that I like as well maybe the simplicity.
Allan Holdsworth used one pickup for most of his career, and he sounded pretty good.
The best sustain that you can get is by removing the neck. I tried and it works. Live the pickups where they are and remove the neck.
@13:18 was the neck pickup still at the very high position?
To my ears the last riff comparison was very dramatically different. However, I'm not sure if this is because the neck pickup was slammed up against the strings. ???
The ideas about the neck pickup "compressing" the note makes sense. The displacement of the string when it is initially plucked is much higher than the "sustain" part of the note, so the initial transients will get closer to the pickup and, in theory, get more "damped" by the neck pickup magnets. Really interesting experiment.
I'm listening with a reasonable quality DAC and headphones. I'm hearing a difference in the two...primarily in the very early stages of the notes...slightly raunchier sound without the neck pickup. To those that don't think the magnetic field would impact the sustain on a string, this experiment absolutely proves the answer is YES because when the pickup is raised, sustain decreases. So it stands to reason and its logical that removing pickups would also impact the amount of sustain. The really interesting point to me though is that experiment shows that there is a tonal difference as well.
This had to be a pretty boring video to make but it was fun to watch. I really appreciate the scientific method employed for the test.
I think the most important things to note are how important pickup height matters and when it comes to tone, everything matters.. it's just a matter of how much and how precise of a tone your ear can recognize.
First
Second... LOL
third!
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Phil was in my feed first. I will be seeing you later.
Good job on the video, I love this kind of comparison! If this is popular and you want to go further, I'd like to see a video comparing not the TOTAL sustain time, but how long each sustains MOST (say 80%) of the volume. That would show more of how each configuration would show in a song, as guitarists don't actually let notes ring out for 30 seconds very often.
To my ears, when you did the lead lick at the end, there were more higher order overtones evident without the neck pickup.
OK so, theoretically, a wire moving in a magnetic field has a current induced in it, and a current in a magnetic field experiences a force, which OUGHT to dampen the movement of the (conducting) string but we are talking milliamps here. Maybe microamps. I would guess that air resistance is a more significant factor. Try measuring sustain on a sunny day vs a rainy day (high pressure vs low pressure) or up in Montana vs Florida. Seriously, I can't hear any difference, though I am listening via UA-cam on a laptop computer, and I am very old. :-)
Hi Andy. Try to listen moments when Philip plays on Marshall some licks. Please pay attention to the long vibrated notes, especially their "tails". No-neck one sounds better, in my opinion
@@vaughanmacegan4012 don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that nobody needs anything but bridge pickup :) yes, strats are versatile. Having more options usually better. But I think it's nice to have one pickup guitar. It must not be a first or only guitar of course. Maybe even second. But I'd like to have one just for this nice sound
BTW it would be a perfection if somebody invented something to turn pickup magnetic field off. And we could have both of two worlds! What if replace magnet with electric magnet? Hmmmm :)
@@vaughanmacegan4012 yes, why not? Trust me, I'm an engineer :) no, seriously, there are electric engines which use constant magnets - DC engines and some AC ones. Asynchronous AC engines don't have any magnet in, but work on electro magnetic principles. When current goes through the wire, the magnetic field appears around it. So you always can replace constant magnet with the copper coil under voltage
Andy Pillidge .. magnets are on ! using them or not .
As someone else mentioned I believe a single bridge pickup at the bridge along with a solid piece of wood ( no routering hole for the neck pickup ) increases sustain due to increased vibrations from a solid connection. Someone else says he prefers the variety of having two pickups and that trumps any 30+ seconds of sustain. Personally I do not wait that long between notes :}
I had a similar experience when I took the back plate off my strat. I didn’t think it could make a difference, but it made a subtle difference, and I liked the sound with it off better.
The only thing that you should be doing in there is putting foam in your bridge springs to shut them up. It doesn't improve the sound through the amp, but getting rid of the "tink tink tink" of springs loading and unloading makes it more pleasant for the player.
Mick Taylor from TPS said a lot of famous strat players say that removing the back plate improves the tone, and he agrees with them, which is why he keeps the back plate off of his. I tried it, and it does take some of the mid range out of the guitar. To me it sounds more “stratty”
@@BJamin4God I guess I can believe it if that back plate is either metal or shielded on the inside. Removing a ground plane means more of the magnetic field will be free to extend in that direction -- away from the strings, which will change the frequency response of the pickups. But my kit build has a plain plastic cover plate and that's not going to make a lick of difference when removed.
Metal back plates do exist, but most often show up on guitars that are themselves largely metal. Shielded back plates, on the other hand, I have actually seen. I know the big slab on the bottom of a Tele pickup changes its pattern and thus its tone, and to put it simply, "shit gets weird" (meaning, the physics become extremely difficult to calculate).
This is exactly the kind of of content that I'm subbed to you for, @Phil McKnight
Right on! I actually think I understand the subtle difference it makes and why phil x and many metal guys prefer the "no neck pickup" thing.
Thanks for this test! There has been a lot of new interest in the Esquire lately and Fender just released a new one. On a guitar forum I frequent many (including me) are talking about converting Teles to Esquires or building kits. Those that have done it all like the sound and the simplicity. I'm converting a cheap import Tele with a new pickguard and the actual Fender bridge, saddles and pickup are inexpensive.
And we love the Esquire for the (slightly) different sound, harmonics and attack, not any real difference in sustain.
You could remove the neck pickup but keep the 3 way switch and wire it as two stage low pass filter to imitate the warmer sound of the neck pickup. It won't be the same sound but it would give back some of the flexibility of having a neck pickup.
Hi Philip, You can easily hear how the dynamics are dampened with the neck PU in place! But, if you will, can you do the same experiment 1. with single coils at the neck position and 2. HB VS SC (to compare ) to hear the difference and how they affects the dynamics of the instrument ! * also same magnet material, magnetic strength, etc ...
And aside from the neck/no neck pup test, it was a good demo of the pickup height effect as well.
I've always heard people say that the reason to have a guitar with just the bridge pickup is to have more output volume... Never heard nothing (in this situation) about sustain
I was just watching your video on myths guitarist believe are true. I hear lemon oil lemon oil lemon oil. I've actually never used any. I actually found a pawn shop guitar in the late 80s with an unfinished neck. Shoot I've always used Floyd rose tremolos. And back then most Kramer's had one. I always liked to take from one and throw things together. It was cheaper and I got a lot of guitars that way. A Kramer you could get sometimes like $50 to $100 bucks back then. Well I got one with a WarMoth neck. Unfinished locking but shaped like a Stratocaster headstock. It had some bad spots so I sanded it smooth again. I done hardwood floors to so I knew wood needed protecting. I just used that Murphy's oil soap. I had different necks through the years. When is clean the gunk off the finger board and sand the back of the neck to get it smooth I'd put some on leave it about 5 minutes and buff it off. I never had a problem I've had Ebony finger boards birdseye Maple even one with a purple heart skunk stripe. That purple heart is beautiful wood. I later found out they have lemon oil. But I always used the oil soap. $4.00 and I used one bottle for years. Honestly I never had a problem. Most of the necks was in all kinds of weather also. I don't know the feel of raw breathing wood. Like in winter months I would smear it on. If you've ever seen gaps in a hardwood floor. That from putting wood down with moisture in it the heat word be used and that wood would really drink up. What's your thoughts on Murphy's oil soap? Oh yeah. I wasn't like using a lot either. Just like waxing a car then buff it off in a few minutes with a cotton towel.
How do you know the factory height of pickups, where we can find factory heights ?
I have Jackson JS 32 Rhoads.
Nice video bro, thanks!
It sounds more open without the neck pickup. It seems to compress the note a bit with that pickup in. More sustain and more attack without. But you're right, the versatility of having both pickups still wins.
I listened to your video and decided to lower my neck pick ups slightly.
Hey Phil, can you please do a video on Schecter Japanese guitars and why certain models arent available outside of Japan?
Eddie Van Halen says there is a difference and that was his consideration with his Frankenstein. I think there are some other factors such as the type of bridge, wood density, string gauge, and pickup height of the rear bridge. I think the player's hands will also impact the tone and sustain affecting results.
Ok, my two cents. I could care less about the impact on sustain. What you aptly termed bloom is the important part. There are a lot more harmonics and just a fuller sound from the single pickup. I stumbled on this years ago before I knew it was a thing. I had an Ibanez S series that I loved but I wanted to try out Nuno's pickup setup in it to see what it sounded like. He had a Bill Lawrence in the bridge, and a knock off of a gibson something or other in the neck. I ordered both of them at the same time. The neck pickup went back ordered so I got the bridge pickup first. So as a temp deal (because I had no patience) I installed the bridge and left the neck empty. I also cut out the tone. So just a bridge and volume control. It was beautiful!!! Eventually the other pickup came in and I eagerly installed it. And it sounded great. But when I switch to the bridge I literally thought I had wired something wrong because the sound was so different. (By the way I make my living working on electronics, for my whole life so its not like I can't wire a guitar.) So I started thru all kinds of adjustments, but never could get it back to the way I liked it until I just yanked the whole pickup out. Even disconnected it just didn't have what it had before.
So I pulled it out and that guitar has stayed that way since. It was after that I started noticing in a lot of videos of Rock guys on stage having an empty spot in their neck pickup. Now, that said. I like a certain tone with lots of harmonic squeals and such. If that is not your thing, probably doesn't matter. Also that Bill Lawrence is really hot so you can here everything. As for having tonal variety, when you find the right setting on your amp suddenly your volume control will also be your tone control. Simplifies everything. But you do have to spend the time to find it. Also if you can invest in new fingers you will find better tone. That is where most of the tone lives.
As an afterthought, I should say, I was playing thru headphones a lot so as not to disturb the wife. I think that really clarifies the sound a little more also.
I would say it was the "envelope" that changed for the better with one pickup. Cool experiment!
I have a single pickup (H) "beginners" guitar that I have had since I was in my teens that I have kept all these years because it sings and squeals (pinch harmonics) better than any other guitar I have ever played. The humbucker is pretty hot but I have had hotter in other guitars and not had them sound as good, sustain as well or squeal as easily/loud. Not great for clean tones or light crunch but throw on some drive and crank the amp and it just gives you chills. My LP by comparison sustains and squeals less impressively even when I had a pair of EMGs in it (back to the PAFs now). I almost put an EMG in the hotrod but decided not to mess with what was already working for me in case I couldn't put it back right.
I have had quite a few single pickup guitars over the years and always liked them, even my Fender Musicmaster with it's single, slant, single coil neck pickup felt like it sustained better. One of those guitars you regret selling :(
Aren't you gonna tell us which "beginner" guitar you have? We wanna know!
What about the single pickup with and without the tone control connected? I’d like to see how that changes the quality of the sound.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
This is fairly common physics grad school problem, when the Prof is a guitar player. The magnetic field from the pickup barely affects the strings in the vertical direction, i.e. perpendicular to the pickup. It does affect the string vibration in the horizontal direction across the pickup which results in suppressing the output of the higher harmonics. With two or more pickups it’s even more complex. This is probably why it sounded more full without the neck pickup. This effect will also change the sustain to a small degree as the pickup is changing the vibrational modes of the string.
I learned the importance of pickup height when I experienced a pickup screwing up the intonation in the upper register.
It’s simple physics. The work done by pushing around in the magnetic field necessarily causes sustain loss. But your video showed that the difference was appreciable for the neck pickup
Philip, I think where this idea has come from; think of a les Paul junior with no neck pickup-itynecause it has more wood( not being routed) so simply putting something in the hole is making little difference, but possibly having that small amount of extra wood makes only minute changes of sound anyway.In your test the bottom end of the note fed back a little microphonically into the pickup a few times making the note longer as well.What would be a better test is to compare two tele's - one being an esquire( unrouted neck pickup cavity), and the other, a regular but similar bodied two pickup telecaster: because I think this is where thud idea originated , surely that's where you could perhaps be looking. Anyway thanks for your posts which I often find informative and interesting.(please excuse my poor typing on this old phone)
Many Esquire and Junior owners would agree, that one pickup is best. Wes Montgomery's L-5 also sounds great, with just a neck pickup. I like the versatility of two pickups, so I stick with that formula.
Exactly what I was thinking. I swear only one pickup sounds just a bit better. Prob placebo with seeing it. I feel like it has more sizzle in bridge, and neck only just sounds better. Maybe less sustain if he used an open coil pickup in the neck as well. I'm surprised by the results still.
If you lose the bridge pickup you probably wont notice a difference at all, as it would probably be less effective due to the smaller amplitudes closer to the string's endpoints. So im not sure it would be worth losing a bridge pickup over a neck one, if you had to lose one.
@@PaperKhaos Good point. Also neck pickup only guitars are a special breed so hard to make a comparison. And they always have highly skilled people playing them.
This might be due to resistance. You figure, getting rid of either pickup will also eliminate all the wiring involved, the extra Pot(s), the switch, etc. In Phil's experiment, the wiring is all still there, only the pickup, itself, is eliminated. I plan on building a guitar with simply 1 pickup, placed centrally, and a volume pot, with no tone adjustment.
@@TJEvans98 I love it! My go to is my tele in middle position. Less is more.
Phil went full nerd and I sat and watched the entire thing.
I think it would be best to do that blindfolded. I really think if your pickup is affecting the string vibration by it's flux, you might be set to close to the string. It really does not need much with a good hot signal setup (pickups, strings, electrics, pedals, amp).
My main ax has only a bridge humbucker and so far I have found no need for a neck pickup. Where you pick (or pluck) on the string makes a huge difference.
in the case of guitar pick-ups, the string is a moving magnet (magnetized by the magnet in the pick-up). The induced current, is not in the string (which is grounded anyway...) but in the pick-up coil, and from there it proceeds towards the amp...For sure, the magnetized string moving in the pick-up magnetic field will sense a force working against its vibration (afterall you are moving a magnet close to another magnet). It shouldn't be so difficult to actually calculate or simulate that, starting from some realistic data and geometric details. Check this link here: www.physics.udel.edu/~nowak/phys208/Labs/FaradayLaw.pdf
There's so many different facets to this argument. Humbucker versus single coil, bolt-on versus set neck versus neck thru, neck versus bridge, the odd triple humbucker guitar, fixed bridge versus tremolo, Floyd Rose versus Fender, on and on. There's so many variables. In the end, find a guitar and pickup set that you like and enjoy!
sustain is made by your hands, how well you play and your knowledge of the guitar. i have bought 90 dollar guitars at pawnshops and had sustain through the roof.
have you tried comparing the damping effect from a single coil pickup to that of a humbucker? Also how much does lowering the pickup change that effect?
I think that, like a lot of other people, I'd rather have two pickups. Fun video.
I literally just built a bridge humbucker only guitar for this very reason! I noticed the same pickup in a bridge only guitar sounded hotter and had better sustain than in an HSH guitar. Same exact pickup swapped between two different guitars. So I built a guitar with bridge only humbucker and volume only. Much hotter and way better attack.
I wonder if it's the magnets of the neck pickup having the effect, or magnets+windings?
Is the energy being lost due to current induced in the neck winding? The neck circuit is broken, but has capacitance, so in an AC sense, current can still flow a little.
I can't find it right now, but once I watched a video where they built a guitar with a slotted channel to slide the neck pickup in and out: they played the guitar while someone else was randomly sliding the pickup in and out, and you could definitely hear these same differences.
I did a little experimenting also and marked the times, then listened to the sound samples w/o talking in between. When the neck pup was taken out I thought I heard the note(s) bloom and have a more complete sound (I wanted to say better, but depends on what you are aiming for?) Overall, I liked the sound with 1 pup better than both. The neck pup has to have some affect on the string, good, bad or indifferent. It is just there acting on it. Same without. I think I like without better. I have 2 brand new SM pine bodies, necks and components. When I find the time I will assemble them and try the/a test. Or maybe send them to Phil. 8) JMHO.... --gary
That Marshall sounds phenomenal!
I think just like everything else its a small percent of the the tonal range of the instrument. Great experiment!
I'll add some spice: in my personal tests on strats if the middle has the same polarity of the bridge and neck the sustain is longer and the harmonics are wider than with a middle RWRP, you loose the hum cancelling effect in 2 and 4 but to my ears the guitar sounds better. Try it by yourself, worth a test
I agree with you. It made such a little difference that I would rather have that neck pickup as well
I really have no idea if that neck pup does much to affect the sound, but I wonder if people who remove it, like Phil X, feel something different when playing. Like the guitar/amp gives back in a different way, not just sustain. And that that accounts for the difference in sound. They adjust differently to what the guitar gives back which changes the way they play in a subtle way that they can hear/feel/sense as not as optimal. As they have honed their craft, they become accustomed to the subtle differences, or at least, sense there is a difference even if they cannot always put their finger on what it is exactly. It's kind of like how a person can pick up one guitar and love it, pick up another guitar, even one that's similar, and just not connect in the same way.
I liked the sound of the guitar with both pickups. A distinctively smokier sound. Reminded me of Leslie West.
Funny, Leslie West liked to play Juniors...
@@jeffscarff1655 I know, that makes my comment seem strange, but that's what I thought of when I heard that tone.
Hi i have a Floyd Rose strat deluxe Mexico, a got really Bad sustain problems, pinched harmonics not always works too, but on any other guitar it works. So how can i improve the sustain of my strat? thx for help...
its a Licenced fliydrose Bing with a bronze block so that cannot be the problem
What if you pulled the bridge pickup? Does pickup position make a difference? Having one vs two pickups... does a single one generally sound more resonant due to the absence of the second pickup dampening the strings?
I could hear the difference, but I would not give up the added benefit of having the neck pickup.
Dang that KYG PRS in the background looks sick.
this could be why hss or hs setups are so popular. i personally don't really care about HH setups or HSH setups particularly because i like the since coil sound for neck tones. i have a sixty six and the middle pickup is super low with a jason becker in the bridge and this thing is my favorite guitar ever, hands down. current stock mexi tele pickups are great for that just right kind of balance.
Clearly a difference between the 2 in both sound and sustain. The other big attribute about single bucker guitars people talk about is that the removal of the tone pot and switch from the circuit also adds to the tone since the signal has less to go thru to filter it before it exits the guitar. So if it's this obvious already I'm sure it will be even more obvious with those removed as well. I never thought this was a myth since it's always been obvious that single bucker guitars just have a certain character that regular guitars just don't have. Nice test though, it only proves people like myself aren't crazy. :)
I have a stratocaster with just an sa-x emg in bridge position, for me sound very good
It definitely changes the tone of the bridge pickup. The vibratos (sorry for my English) sound much more delicious without the neck pickup. This low gain amp shows the difference really well. Especially when you raised the neck pickup too high. I mean, if it didn't, esquire would have not been created. Man, not I want one more guitar :)
I have a Jr and gold top all with p90s and in bridge mode they sound real different, I replaced the orig bridge pu on the goldtop with a hotter demarzio because next to jr it sounded dull. Jr has a certain pop to it I havnt found anywhere. It's the ultimate hard rock machine and my first choice for live
Hey Phil, I think you have affirmed what the market is seeing, a renewed interest in Fender Esquire and Gibson Les Paul Jr guitars.
How about filling in the two upper pick up cavities? With wood filler.. it might make it ring longer.
The sound wave overlay got me thinking: whatabout getting the string up to power with an ebow? Release and then start the timer? OR ebow on and compare amplitude between no-neck/neck pickup. Does the neck pickup exert enough pull on the string to dilute vibration (signal)? Haha, anyway, I can't HEAR a difference and that might matter more.
You should try it with an Alnico V single coil in the neck. Since single coils have the magnets on the poles there will be a stronger pull.
Hey Phil. Try repeating the experiment at higher positions on the neck,... say the 15th fret. That's where the difference is dramatic
I noticed a big gain in sustain when I had a graphtech nut put on my epiphone les paul custom pro to replace the plastic nut it came with. I wonder if all the sustain Angus gets from his Marshall's is due to that Shaffer Replica box he uses?!Have you used one of those Phil?
How about no bridge pup? I play so much on the neck or neck blend, I don’t know if I would like bridge only
Very interesting, but I wonder, is it diminished because there is a neck pickup, or because there are 2 pickups? In other words, if you did the same type of swap between the rear pickup and the dummy, would the neck pickup Sustain longer as well.
I researched this when modifying my harmony bobkat and went with one pickup and one knob volume pot, like Evh
Is the change specifically due to removing the neck pick-up (I know that's what your test was) or would you get the same results if you removed the bridge pick-up? That is, is it the location of the pick-up you're removing, or just that you're down to one?
Cool experiment! I'd be cool to this type of tests with a spectrum analyzer, seems the frequencies damped by the neck pick up make more difference than the overall sustain.
Definitely a difference. Whether or not it is enough to make you go without a neck pickup I guess is up to the player.