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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2023
- Episode 1404
Old school, pre cable ties, but still used today
Aircraft: www.steinair.com/wp-content/u...
Navy: archive.hnsa.org/doc/cabling/...
NASA: nepp.nasa.gov/files/27631/nst...
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![[Tutorial] Cable Lacing](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GTC_r9AIgdo/mqdefault.jpg)
One of the BIG pluses with old school cable lacing is that there are NO sharp edges to rip your skin open...
True, that was my introduction to plastic cable wraps in 1980, thus am a big believer in cable tie gun, cuts the tie without any sharp ends ... Question, where do you get the flat wax lacing cord. I have a very old spool, but the wax has melted off.
@@RoyArmy-WREW918 Amazon has it.
@@RoyArmy-WREW918 skygeek part # SGP206991 😉
Yes, I had a dedicated crew of on avg of 8-12 or so of contractors traveling around the country. When tie-wraps strictly came to focus, I stressed that the ties be, flush-cut ! In which I told the team that they could spend a day or two in thier motel room. Course I would have never done that but they didn't know any different. A tie-wrap cuts like a knife & hurts like h3ll. Presumedly when working off an 8 ft ladder for days or months. Using lacing cord was art, a thing of beauty, breaking off into water-falls ect. Same goes for the ties . I was a Telcom contractor for 5 years, eventually became an MCI employee in 1988, yet continued traveling the country, motel to motel. I retired after 27 yrs and burnt my suitcases :)
Reminiscent of the days I worked for the defense contractor. We had assembly people that would just have fingers moving and a continues lace that followed. As a Test person we'd sometimes have to cut open a bundle in troubleshooting, we' d call one of those wire harness experts back to make it pretty again and you couldn't even tell we messed with it. Nylon Tie-Wraps seem to be king today.
Nylon tie straps (ty-raps, etc.) have become the standard because they are (1) repeatable, (2) independent, and (3) machine-installable [plus many other reasons]. Using a calibrated tie-strap installer and a MIL/AS-spec tie-strap, *every* tie strap will be repeatably correct, which is very important for quality control and inspection. With nylon tie-straps, they are each independent of one another, so a failure in the middle of a tied section won't "unzip" like it would with a running-tie installation. Nowadays, most mass-produced harnesses are done using machines, where looming and tying nylon cord would be mechanically difficult - but a machine that puts on a tie-strap is quite comparatively simple. It all comes down to workmanship and quality, so the standards have changed to remove the technician's skill (or lack of skill) from the quality of the finished item. I've tied many miles of nylon lacing cord and can personally attest that nylon tie-straps are much more consistent and reliable - ugly, but reliable. Crimped electrical connections have replaced soldered connections in aircraft for the same reason: with a calibrated tool and good parts, the connection is very reliable and not subject to technical skill. Cheers!
Hello, you normally brought me back to my youth, when I tied it up with wax twine - the entire telephone switchboard. We normally learned this at school and the teacher would walk around the class with scissors and a tape measure, stop at each one and measure the distance between the knots if they weren't the same - the scissors would ruin your work and you'd start over. How useful it was for me when tying new ones or when repairing bundles in electronic devices.
A good trick was to draw a bundle on a wooden board, hammer nails into the bends and branches, stretch wires between them according to the prepared description, and only then bind the entire form.
Nice day 🙂 Tom
This is weirdly appropriate timing. Literally just a couple hours I was trying to figure out how to go about bundling some loose wiring together neatly, and then this video pops up right after.
I've not noticed it in your videos before but I bet I will now! I've always seen it in old equipment and wondered how to do it though.
I used to do this back in the day (1978). I’d lace up wiring harnesses (Looms) for gaming machine prototypes.
I had a few techniques of my own, different to the ones you showed. I would do a special loop wherever the harness split (forked) also.
They were heavy wiring harnesses with 50 or 60 conductors, 7 or 8ft long too 😉
Fun to see this tho, I’ve actually done some of this in this past year, when I built an 8080a based computer 👍🏻
I use waxed dental floss.
Dentist: Mr. Duncan, when was the last time you flossed?
Me: Don't you remember, you were there! LOL
Yep same here! Worked well and looked like the real thing.
And it smells minty!
Reminds me of my USAF Electronics days back in the late 1970s. Now do that with the QA guy watching!
I learned how to do this in the 60's at North American Rockwell, still use it all the time on my projects.
I used the second variant when I was in radio repairs and had to replace the entire wireing loom.. LOL.
This was really common in the early days of my career, both on the wiring used in the racks of earth station equipment in the Army and then when I started working on commercial systems. Then very quickly it seemed everyone converted over to tie-wraps. I don't think I've seen wax lacing in 30 years now.
One nice thing was that I never had a finger/hand sliced by a sharp wax lacing like I have on the clipped end of plastic/nylon tie-wraps.
This is how it starts. It's so beautiful, now I have to get some lacing cord, lol. Thank you (unironically.)
I think the NASA version is very similar to the lacing method I was taught for Admiralty (RN) equipment.
The start knot was a clove hitch then a simple overhand knot to lock it. The tail is laid back along the loom and bound into it via the stitch. The running knot looks the same but is formed a lot quicker. From the start knot place your roll of cord under the loom and lay a loop on the palm of your hand, rotate your hand in the direction of the stitching putting a twist into the loop, reach through the loop and pull through your roll of cord . Pull tight that forms the running knot. continue as required. To finish on the last running knot, create one more running knot but position it behind and touching the last knot, A couple of overhand knots in the tail then snip off.
Andy
WOW! Thank you for this video. I work on electric guitars for my job, and while I'm thoroughly Gen Z there's a lot of obsession with the old cloth covered wire, and making the wires in the guitars look pretty with all ages and types of guitar players. So this will absolutely help me with that. :)
Around 6:50, I'd expect lacing like that from the Navy. It resembles whipping the end of a rope so it doesn't fray (plus it uses similar waxed cord). Slam dunk for them.
Yes, got those rolls of lacing cord, and also have the tools to work with it. Comes in handy when you have old heatshrink that has split, and where you need to fix it, but no spare connectors, and the old connector is not too likely to come loose either. Yes learnt all those working avionics, and did a lot of lacing up of looms, mostly because I was replacing a wire or three, or running in new ones.
Difference between a square knot and a granny knot is that last knot, both do hold well.
Thanks for the presentation. I had had wondered several times I happened to see the lacing system on the cables especially in the medical equipments like the old X-ray machines.
De VU2RZA
SO much better than zip locks. Looks beautiful and no more cut up hands.
Yes, I've done enough bleeding under computer room floors to despise zip ties. I was very impressed when I was taught to do cable lacing.
@@TesserId Agreed!
I was lucky to learn it in my apprenticeship. It's an art. 😊
just a few days ago i got 2 boxes of "Old ham junk" in there was a spool of wax lacing rope. i remember doing that in school.
I found spools of "lacing cord" in a local Electronics Supply House, this week. I might go back and purchase a spool. The price was very reasonable too.
I was always impressed watching the HP, TRW, and Kaman Sciences assemblers lace cables. Very pretty. BTW, the father of a buddy of mine made his career out of fixing the cable harness of the B-52 bomber, making it work when Boeing was in the middle of a major crisis, unable to get it right. It's a HUGE cable harness.
Nowadays I mostly see Tie-wraps and split flex-plastic used for bundling cables because it's quicker and easier to fix, or change-out wires. Plus it protects the bundle from abrasion on edges and corners along its route. Kind of a brainless solution, but a solution nonetheless.
For Aerospace, “Continuous lacing *shall* not be used, except in panels and junction boxes where this practice is optional.” according to [AS50881]. Moreover, in Space and Military Applications, according to [IPC/WHMA-A-620], “Continuous lacing *shall* not be used unless specified on the engineering documentation.” “Wax-impregnated lacing tape *shall* not be used.” and “A clove hitch knot *shall* secure the bundle, and the clove hitch *shall* be secured with a locking knot, e.g., square knot, surgeon’s knot.”. When continuous lacing _is_ applicable, they only accept the NASA style shown in the video.
I learned this professionally and laced many many 0.25mm² 2Mb bundled with 15 more coaxial cables inside the cable and bind 16 of these is a big bundle in local telecom exchange centers in suburbs. perfectly parallel bundled cables running through the building. was an awesome sight, perfection in dutch telecom exchange centers.
Even had a special tool for it, we used Hemp thread with wax.
Have not seen the wax cable lacing in a very long time. Always looked so so nice
One of the first jobs I learned to do for my first job in the 70s with Plessey telecommunications in U.K. lacing and forming cables on equipment racks when I was working on exchange construction it whent to gluing and zip ties to speed things up but lucks a mess
A thing of beauty, a joy for ever. I've been a fan of cable lacing since 2000s. I don't do the starting and ending knots as shown in these instructions, as I've figured out different ones that work for me, but it all still turns out very reliable and elegant :). Oh, and I use indestructible polyester (or was it nylon?) thread named Ariadna Tytan 10 for that - not waxed though. Like, I used different threads and thicknesses, always had a problem of ripping, until I bought a big spool of this one that's gonna last me a lifetime and not fail in end-of-life conditions as I could literally hang myself on it and it'd do the job just fine, hahaha!
I haven't actually noticed your lacing :O But I saw it on a video of look mum, no computer and since then I've been interested in lacing some cables myself.
It's pretty fun and makes your gear look pro and a little old school lol
Be sure to tune in next time to see IMSAI Guy repairing a pipe organ!
I used to know how to lace wires. I haven't even considered it in decades. When I did it it was all about getting knots to lay flat.
Telcoms used lacing cord for many years at CO's and repeater sites. Used to lase 300 pair cables overhead on latter racks. Used to have a callus on my right hand pinky finger, between the first & joint. Also had lacing (sowing) needles as well. Then along came the Tie Wraps. It didn't take long to learn how to flush cut those things. A lot of people got cut. Ouch!
lacing in central offices is still the perferred way to go, especially on DC power cables. Many telco's require lacing, cable ties not an option
Good stuff, IMSAI guy!
That unknown knot at time 11:47 is called a cow hitch
Many eons ago I was taught the NASA method, which I think the telephone manufacturers also used. Like you I still lace up cables as they look really nice. Sometimes I use a double strand. The trick is to keep the running cord on the bottom as you tie the knot. Less likely to snag something when the running line is flat against the wire. Always takes me 10-15 minutes to remember how it goes. Always seem to cut too short of piece and have to start over on the first one. There is a trick so you don't have to deal with the free end, just a loop of it.
3:50 Hitching post, in case people in the future are wondering. Also, horses were living animals that we used for getting around before we invented cars. Cars, were these machines we used to travel around in before we started permanently living in them and they became stationary homes.
So a hitching post is the old timey equivalent of whatever we're currently tying our homes to to keep them in one place.
I still do cable lacing and apparently we still use the exact same reference documents haha. I'd love to see this technique come back again into popularity.
I am pretty sure there is a Bell Labs/BELCORE/Telcordia/Iconectiv standard too.
Loose knots sink ships.
I was in the telephony business and lacing was used by telephone installers. When done right it was beautiful. It lasted too.
The Navy recommendation is similar to whipping for a rope. I guess the tradition carried over from the olde days. Wax cable lacing strikes me as very practical compared to other techniques I've used---loom, braid, tape, etc. This seems more flexible and easier to access wires for repairs.
I use wire lacing for my projects. I taught myself the NASA way but the "pretty navy" way looks better and I should give that a try.
Mix and match them. Whip the ends Navy style and do the running stitches NASA style if you want. Truth be told though navy style whipped ends always made me suspicious. On a rope they work because you really put a lot of force on it when you put those turns on it. I get concerned about pulling that hard on the wires and then I get worried if you don't will it come loose over time?
I’d put money down the NASA one is the strongest/most resistant to coming undone. If only because rockets are nastier environments for shaking and movement. For general use I would expect all these patterns to work just fine. It isn’t like most projects have to deal with any of those environmental extremes. :P
I like it. In spite of zip-ties, I still see cable lacing on satellites.
Yeah, laugh if you want, but some of us remember when the IBM 360 was considered "new stuff"...
Thanks for the video. I appreciate the resources and research involved. I don't feel the need to do this often so I just use waxed dental floss.
Done tons of this stuff. Mostly on sounding rockets. Still have lacing cord in my stash.
Damn autofocus!
Do you have opinions about what properties of the lacing cord lead toward success or failure? I've got a bunch of waxed thread for leatherworking, and a bunch of different kinds of paracord. I'm still feeling out what they're good for, seems like both work, the paracord is better with bundles of large cables like I've got a bunch of stations with 1 each VGA, DVI, Displayport, and USB 2.0 A-B, the empty space between the cables is so large that with the waxed thread, the Navy terminal knots don't really function. It seems like the wax is supposed to help thread "weld" to itself and become more solid, and I don't think that's happening for me, either because the thread is round where yours is wide, and/or because there just isn't enough wax. Meanwhile paracord is a low friction synthetic cord that doesn't mind the running knots slipping as a bundle is handled (I'll be trying the NASA running knot, that seems like it'll be a big help), and it's much more expensive by the foot.
These are cords I have for other reasons, but I do like that they're both available in a lot of colors for visual highlights, and I've found the paracord is pretty good for creating strain reliefs. You can put two terminal knots near each other with slack between, and then in various ways anchor the slack such that the cable between the terminal knots has no tension, letting it form a gentle curve. I have this on some overhead cat7 cable in a spot where it goes from horizontal to vertical and I didn't have any other options to prevent a sharp bend in the location. (you can imagine I am not afforded the option of doing things "well" or "correctly" very often, due to managers and landlords)
Anyway, if I was going to buy something, what matters? what doesn't?
What timing, I was just watching a central office equipment installer lacing some cables this morning, thinking to myself this is some kind of art. Don't ask me which version he was using, probably none of the above, but it sure looks nice!
I was wondering if you'd comment on your choosing of the test lead cabling that you use.
Also noticed in one of your videos you have some Probe Master test leads. Some of the best test leads I've ever used. What's you opinion of the Probe Masters?
Awesome. Very helpful! -but what about the finishing knots?
following the links in the description
Would you recommend something? Amazon link if possible.
search for wax lacing cord. mine is similar to: www.steinair.com/product/lacing-cord/
but a different color
You might want to look into “artificial sinew”, as an alternative. I do not know the exact dimensions of your thread; however, the sinew is a flat, heavily waxed nylon thread. It can even be split into smaller widths very easily. It is widely available pretty much anywhere, pretty cheaply, and comes in a rainbow of colors.
What model is your vise? Is it a panavise?
panavise 366
@@IMSAIGuy thanks! I see it in all your videos and always think it would be nice to have one like it!
What diameter is that lacing you are using here?
it is flat not round. about 2mm wide
@@IMSAIGuy You might want to look into “artificial sinew”, as an alternative. I do not know the exact dimensions of your thread; however, the sinew is a flat, heavily waxed nylon thread. It can even be split into smaller widths very easily. It is widely available pretty much anywhere, pretty cheaply, and comes in a rainbow of colors.
@@kn6vbw The waxed chord is woven and extremely strong. Its sometimes used for strain relief protection.
It would be nice if the running knots could be tied 'on the bight' so the thread didn't need to go through the loop and the spool could remain attached until the end.
I think part of it is so that should the lacing be cut the chain won't unravel. That's hard to do and to keep decent tension on the loop when working on a bight. I don't know of any knots that work like that, be glad to hear of one if you know it?
Keeping in mind it needs to pass around the wire too but just make a loop.
I think if you were doing more of it you'd just use a bobbin or something to have a small spool you could pass through the loops.
that's just knotty.
I would cut heat shrink to about 1/8 inch length and place them around the wires and space them about 1~2 inch and heat the heat shrink.
Try that with the wires already run.
@@jdilksjr In that case use black electric tape to wrap it around wires every 2". Now days electric tape comes in different colors I saw them in blue and red.
@@aduedc That only works with self-vulcanizing tape. The typical 3M adhesive-backed electrical tape one can get at supply houses and home improvement stores mostly seems like a waste of time and material: I have never seen it not come undone after a few years.
@@absurdengineering I usually buy my electric tapes from Home Depot or similar stores and I never had a problem with it. I have opened the electric outlets in homes that are built decades ago and never seen electric tapes come undone.
of course, I live in Southern California, where the temperatures and humidity levels are always normal. I do not know about very hot or cold places, or very humid places. How is the conditions in your area?
@@aduedc The question really is what electrical tape you buy. If it’s the narrow (1/2” maybe) colored 3M stuff then that’s junk. They also sell self-vulcanizing tapes in different colors and those are once and forever.
IMSAI GUY, your content is outstanding. You could vastly improve your sub count etc. with some improved production quality. Perhaps someone in your club would do some post-production editing etc.? There is a tremendous value in your content. That value is sometimes occluded by the production effort.
I don't have a club. Just me. This is what you get. take it or leave it. I'm not trying to improve my sub count.
@@IMSAIGuy I'll take it. Just making a suggestion which you may "take it or leave it"
The production value only needs to be sufficient to make the content useful. Anything on top of that seems superfluous and a waste of resources. “Sub count” is usually not an issue. “Subs” aren’t why worthwhile people do it.
I always liked the idea of lacing wire together, but when the need arises I always go with brading the wire instead. Brading requires no extra materials, seems to work peachy-keen, and is reasonably quick, though I'd be the first to admit that brading lacks the old school charm of waxed lacing cord. Am I a wiring idiot savent or am I missing something?
Clarification: my wiring was/is for industrial and similar non-marine and non-space applications.
Must be interesting to repair.
You mean braiding? Sure, it does the job, but is non-repairable. The laces can be cut and redone easily. Braids? Not unless all the terminations on one end can be set free.
Thanks for the feedback -- and the spelling correction!
Since no one responded with shock (electrical pun not intended ;-), I 'm going to assume that I didn't invent the idea of braiding wire together.
As regards the charge .(ditto ;-) that braiding wire might make repairs more difficult, I don't see it. Typically, I think, what needs to be repaired is what the wires -- braided, laced,or whatever -- are connected to, not the wires themselves.
@@frednitney5831 Oh I love braiding, but hate myself when the time comes to pull a wire, or even just inspect the wires. Lacing is so much easier to undo and redo without having to disconnect the wires.
Back in the 70's at a place I worked - the ladies had plywood with nails in it to layout wires by color/size/length. After the wires were placed lacing began and the result was much as you have shown. I have a variation on your running knot. Where I do two opposite knots at one place which are the left/right versions of your running knot. NASA knows how to complicate things,... why else would it take so long to make space craft? A very anal retentive organization.
Yes, but those never come loose, even after being vacuum baked for decades, and cooked and frozen every 45 minutes during that period.
@@SeanBZA You are talking NASA I surmise. Yes true. However the product time to market is terrible. So now SpaceX is the leader. I do not claim to know what the standards are for them. NASA 'may' be driving some of that. Please explain if you know more.
I had a similar experience while at McDonnell Douglas. They had an area where some of the aircraft wire harnesses were built. As you note, there was a board with nails to route the wire bundles so they would have the correct length, etc. Prior to that time, I had been an avionics tech in the Marines, so I had an appreciation of the skill needed to work with wire harnesses. Nice to see the techniques demonstrated again!
@@mr1enrollment SpaceX have drawn immensely on the work and publications of NASA. In many respects NASA did the science, SpaceX have done engineering with the knowledge NASA discovered.
SpaceX freely admit this and speak about it often.
Keep in mind that space launch is only one small part of what NASA does. It's just the part people see the most.
@@zyeborm ok
Larks head hitch, I think
Yes, and the overhand knot with a second pass through is a surgeon's knot.
Good.
W̤o̤w̤ d̤a̤t̤a̤ s̤h̤e̤e̤t̤ S̤i̤r̤
Out of focus and hands in the way. Not gunna be able to watch this. Nope. I'm a frayed knot!
Funny, either a weird coincidence or one of us is confused. I watched this without my glasses, and it was perfect (and I do have a tendency to get sick.) So, it was either perfectly out-of-focus for my misshapen eyeballs, or it may be time for a new prescription.
Only a short initial take is out of focus. The rest is fine.
@@scottdrake5159 In my case, its cataracts and lens replacement that are needed.
@@absurdengineering Yes, I wuz a bit hasty. I wuz just chompin at the bit to use the frayed knot remark. Wuz i too subtle? And yes I do enjoy the videos, lacing just brought back some bad memories of telecom daze.
@@rfburns5601 Sorry to hear that, that is rough. My remark seems inappropriate now, sorry.
I couldn't tell you why I'm so eager, but I'm eager to put lacing to work in projects, went and grabbed the last NASA workmanship book. It would just look beautiful. Though I can imagine dark days in telecom.
Not that it matters much, you have it much worse than I do: just severe astigmatisms, far-sightedness, and waiting for one of my retinas to hurry up and finish detaching so they will reattach it, lol.
@cableporn #cableporn !cableporn Sorry, I'm still trying to figure out how to talk to the algorithm. Cool shit, man. I wish it was easier to slap a pic up in here, b/c I'm trying to do this atm, b/c of this video, on 3 short ass flat cables, and I've almost got the sucker.. How do I finish this thing? The fancy ending? Halp
links in the description, pick one