I think it's great, and underrated. To make it more functional for self defense I think you need to occasionally practice 1) closing the distance against someone trying to punch you with boxing gloves, 2) do newaza occasionally against someone trying to punch you wearing bag gloves or MMA gloves, and 3) avoid the turtle like the plague and work on your guard!
Thank you Stephan, I greatly appreciate your response as well as insight into martial arts! Much respect, I wish you well in your future endeavors and please keep the videos coming, I greatly enjoy them!
Great video as always, I completely agree pressure testing is not utilised enough in traditional arts or properly in most reality based self protection (I agree with your groin or eye gouge point) and as you say early stages of combat sports are not much better.
Judo is a good sport, but as a fighting style it's not complete... Combine Judo with an MA that provides a solid stand-up game (Muay thai for instance) and you're good to go. Otherwise you'd need to rely on chance or luck to actually get a hold of your enemy without getting knocked out beforehand.
Glad my first striking place, Kenpo, made it mandatory to spar at least once before I could earn my first belt. The idea of black belts that never spared with hard contact just sounds silly.
yea, once to earn the first belt. They had sparing every Friday. And my belt test wasn't just spar with one person, it was a couple hours of sparing with everyone in the dojo. As for the other belt requirements I don't know what they involve. I moved out of the area and started doing BJJ and kick boxing.
This is so frustrating. This video is going to bounce right off of the people who need to take it in the most. Everyone's going to say "They must not have trained REAL kenpo..."
This type of experience is what eventually led me to bjj. I thought my karate base was pretty solid, but live sparring with a wrestler made me take a long hard look at my training. Now, I didn’t just abandon everything I’d learned, but I realized that not all of my techniques were practical.
This is one of the dangers of TMA. After being forced by my parents to do Tae Kwon do, I would still walk around school in fear that someone would pick a fight with me. Sure I had a black belt but I wasn't stupid. I knew I only had it because I could memorize kata and break fragile boards. I had zero confidence because I knew that I wasn't prepared for the real world. I don't like fighting and I'm not passionate about martial arts but if I was forced to practice something, I would've liked to practice something that would've given me confidence growing up.
We had also a lot of sparring in Hapkido already 15 years ago with very minimal rules, like striking/kicking on the ground. However, this was probably because one of our instructors had background in Muay Thai and shootfighting. I don't really get this traditional martial arts shaming from grown up people. I remember hearing this a lot as a kid: "judo is shit because I do karate and we break bricks with our hands!" Most people don't want to fight in the UFC, and no matter how much you spar, you will probably get hospitalized in a street fight anyway if the other person would carry even a small a concealed knife and has some experience using it. Then again, if he didn't carry a knife, he'd probably be so drunk that you could beat him even though you had practiced only katas for five years. If Fedor Emelianenko attacks you at the grill queue, you'll end up in a wheelchair with all your joints rotating 360 degrees, no matter how much you have sparred.
When people refer to TMA's that don't spar, more often than not they're referring to Chinese systems or styles that are often full of mysticism and bullshido. Obviously, this can include some styles of karate, as many of them don't spar. However, it's more about how these systems teach their delivery. For example, kicks work fine when you have good fighting fundamentals, but if you're learning within a system that never lets you spar, you'll have no idea behind the timing and power it takes to put someone down. That said, even the sparring in TKD is limited. Yet, I would venture to say it's much better than many systems that preach deadly techniques that are never employed.
I do ITF style Tae Kwon Do where punches are allowed and its full contact, so its pretty much kickboxing with no kicks below the belt. WTF style is what you see in the Olympics, with just kicks. I studied Kyokushin Karate too which also had full contact sparring. I agree the teacher matters just as much as the style, as do the training methods. There are great fighters using Karate and Tae Kwon Do like Sage Northcutt, Wonderboy, Anthony Pettis, Yair Rodriguez and Connor McGregor and obviously legends like Anderson Silva, GSP, Bas Rutten and Lyoto Machida. I understand questioning the effectiveness of things like Aikido and Kung Fu, but clearly styles like Karate, Tae Kwon Do and even Judo are an effective part of many MMA fighters arsenal, so I don't understand the blanket TMA bashing rampant in MMA today. Respect to the traditional styles!
With all due respect, all those fighters you mentioned aren't using karate, kung-fu, etc... as their base. They're first and foremost mixed martial artists who have a background in those traditional arts. It doesn't mean they have revolved everything around their traditional arts, only that they came from those backgrounds. It still doesn't say much about TMAs being effective on their own. There's no need to respect styles that claim certain things. If anything, it's disrespectful to lie about what something is or isn't, which is what many TMAs have been doing for years. And actually, it's not the MMA community that cares about what TMAs can or cannot do, it's people who grew up believing all the BS and finally realized it was all fake.
Truth Guy I never said they're effective on their own, but it's disingenuous to say those fighters don't use their traditional styles heavily in their fighting. Their stances, footwork, kicks, timing all heavily Karate and based. They've just added Jiu Jitsu, Wrestling or Boxing on top to round out their game. Anderson Silva and Yair Rodriguez literally fight like Tae Kwon Do fighters. Machida and Bas Rutten fought like Karate fighters. Connor McGregor moves like a Karate fighter and heck even uses Wing Chun boxing. That's why hes such an unusual and frustrating fighter; he trains in something others have written off as useless. I'm just saying clearly there's some use in those styles if high level fighters make them an integral part of their game. Sage Northcutt and Stephen Thompson are probably the best example of fighters who vocally credit their traditional background for their fighting ability.
When I was in the military reserves, we had to do the Physical Fitness Test, which consisted of push-ups, sit-ups and a 2-mile run. A lot of people would train for the 2-mile run by going on their home treadmill rather than actually going outdoors to run. The ones who trained on the treadmill would fail the 2-mile run because the treadmill is a lot different than running on a non-moving surface like a dirt road or pavement. I trained by running through all sorts of terrain like mud, gravel, sand, dirt, pavement, concrete, grass. I was able to still ace my 2-mile run when PT people made us run through gravel. A lot of people weren't prepared for that. But I was! :D
I believe that simple is always better since your fine motor skills are shut down during a stressful situation anyway boxing is an excellent foundation for standup combat it's simple and to the point nothing fancy.
Coming from a background in MMA,boxing, kickboxing, and Rugby. I recommend Sparology, its effective without taking damage, you teach people to tag each other without causing damage. Sparing hard is a waste and getting brain damaged is not good. Learn how to properly spar safely. Dont ever go to a boxing gym to spar they will hurt you bad, spar safely & roll safely. Are you will be severely injured
In my opinion if it doesn't focus on full-contact sparring or competition then it's not martial-arts. It's just arts. Martial means combat. If there is not combat, it's not martial.
Oh yeah? So how does traditional Japanese schools that were used in wars didn't have sparring? Like kukihsin Ryu, Takagi ryu jujutsu, etc. were they useless? If they were why were they teached for people kill each other?
Better to get beat up in the dojo than on the street. I have a Capoeira background, another traditional art that many don't take seriously. After I started learning Muay Thai and started doing more sparring, I too inevitably left a lot of techniques out. But also left some things in. I figured if I ever do get beat up I'd rather have it be in training than some thug on the street who's hell bent on my destruction.
LMAO!! Nice shirt to wear for this talk. I have been there and done that. That is why I started boxing and muay thai as a teenager, before BJJ 4 life. Because everything else I learned never worked in the streets.
I noticed when watching lots of kung fu fights, especially wing chun. They normally revert to slap fests and really bad wrestling. It almost never looks like what they trained.
We adapted MMA for self defense more or less and eye gouges, while being a useful tool, are way too overrated in many self defense systems. Using eye gouges so he backs to the side a little making it easier to trap and roll? Go ahead! Using it to make him think about something else as you are trying to go for a choke? Great idea! But don't give me that "I am in a terrible position, but now I did an eye gouge so I won"-bullshit.
I've eye gouged in a fight, but I'm not a martial artist (traditional). Kickboxing, wrestling, and submission grappling. I had a dominate position, and because the guy attacked me with a steering wheel lock (and hit me with it) I eye gouged the shit out of him while grappling with him. I grabbed the side of his face and shoved my thumb SO FAR into his eye. I didn't need training in it :P That's why having the dominate position is the most important.
Scottius Maximus Well there are a few thing about eye-gouging you can actually train. Most peoples first try to eye-gouge can be easily prevented. If you are only going for one eye with forward pressure he just turns his head and you slip off. But this is really just a minor thing. If your eye-gouges suck that just weakens 2 or 3 things you could do. If your positioning sucks you are simply screwed.
Scottius Maximus: I do security work for bars and events and eye gouging doesn't work too well on someone who knows what they are doing. I've been eye gouged and all it did to me was make me treat the guy really badly. I did things to him I would never do to someone in the club because they are considered "dick moves". I've also put someone in an arm bar and they bit me... I then ripped apart his shoulder and elbow, which I normally wouldn't have cranked it so badly.... I could do all those things in a fight, but I choose to take people out with as little damage as possible. If they try that stuff on me though, I can be extras nasty.
Benjamin O'Neal I cannot recommend that at all. Reputation of a system is not doing shit for you if you are in trouble. MMA might be a sport that is not ideal for the street. Otherwise there wouldn't have been any need for us to "adapt" it. But a "sport" that does work is still better than a self deception program that does not.
Benjamin O'Neal said _"MMA isn't a self defense"_ MMA stands for mixed martial arts ... lol - it's a blend of all the best martial arts that work in real world environments... it's used for self defense and the US military uses most of the arts that work in MMA for the basis of their combatives program. BJJ is used to get back to your feet or control someone... you know that ground stuff that you think is useless?? lol Go learn about MMA and specifically BJJ from this Navy Seal ua-cam.com/video/SGpDVCkhtD4/v-deo.html
What I don't really understand is how 'traditional' martial arts practitioners reached the point where they need to be told this. 'Back in the day' they used to spar, and to fight for real. Somewhere along the way this tradition of practice by doing got lost. I train Tang Soo Do (relatively modern but still considered a TMA) but am lucky that my master makes us spar week in, week out. Our Grand Master used to fight plenty as a young man, perhaps a little too much according to some, so that mentality still exists in our club. Even from my first days sparring I realised TSD punches kinda suck, so I train boxing to supplement it, they work nicely together. Without sparring I'd have been training a delusional style.
While most points are true, I am a bit bothered by the term "traditional" being used interchangeably as bullshit these days. The fact is, there are many bullshido schools around, and many of them masquerade as traditional schools (but not limited to) with their invented 'traditions'. However, there are also legit traditional martial arts that had their roots in the combative training of militia or local security force. The problem is though, even within these styles, the schools tend to evolve (or devolve) into a sport, a fitness class, or a performance art. The ones that actually stick to their combative traditions do take some effort to find, and usually don't survive well, because when most parents send their kids to a martial art class, they are thinking sport / fitness / performance art, instead of a combative skill. So many it's an inevitability for their economical survival in a peaceful society. Also more importantly, this is not only happening to traditional schools, but across the board in varying degrees. You can actually see several trendy styles starting to leave their self defense aspect behind to focus on just the sport., and bullshido schools starting to pop up in their names. This is why I don't think it's helpful to dismiss all the traditional arts as bullshit. It might be more beneficial to just look at each school objectively, and figure out how if they do offer practical combative training, or if they are more of a sport / fitness /performance art place, or even just pure bullshido school.
LONG comment ahead: I think that to answer this question some other question must be answered First, if you want wan martial art to be nonviolent you will need to focus the art in defense but: Can you be always defended with no offense? This is essentially the min point of the video. Against persistent enemies, that will no desist in their attacks nor change their mind, a nonviolent approach will fail. Have you tried to play a shooter without killing one enemy?. So the answer is: No, not allways. If there is no way to ALWAYS possible to achieve defense in a nonviolent way, how much defensive can a defense art are became? This is not an easy question expessed in tis terms. But one way to partially answer it is finding an art focused in the best defense . So, Wich is the best defese?: …. …. …. No attack: because you will not need to use resources for defend in nor repair damages form the attack. However it can be achieved in different ways and each one of this was has its limitations. To see this we must remember the basic elements needed to obtain any attack: the attacker, the attacked one, a reason for the attack, the attack and the medium for the attack. To completely eliminate any attack and the achieve the best defenses you need to eliminate at least one of this factors. So there you have some of the methods to achieve the best defense: - There is no reason for attack: this is by far the best defense at long term because it allow to transform the “attacker” into a friend making both stronger. There is where diplomacy is usually best “art”. However in presence of INTENSE competition and limited resources, diplomacy may fail -There is no attacked: if you are not there, you cannot be attacked. Here is where hiding and running are usually the best choice. However if the attacker if fast enough and persistent and sensitive you cannot run no hide (jua,jua jua..!) -There is no medium to attack: if the attack cannot reach you, you are typically defended. Here is where shields and blocks are used. The man problem this this defense is the conservation of momentum: with portable shields and blocks the momentum of the attack will be traneared to the attacked. -there is no attacker: if you destroy de attacker all problem seems to be solved. Here is there where “good offense” is useful. But for a good attack to be the best defense, the attack must be devastating: it must destroy any will to counter attack form the attacker, their families their friend and allies. Other way you will receive another attack, possibly stronger than yours. - There is no attack: even if the attacker move towards the attacked one with motives, an can reach him , if the movement is not an attack there is no problem. Here lies the realm of immobilizations and the basis of Aiki. The main advantage of this is that you can gain time to get any of the other approaches. The problem with this approach is that you need to structure not only your movement but the movement of the attacker, which is very complicated unless you have one or few simple but generalist criteria to optimize the movement of the attacker -attached compound (the “do” of the art). Except for the aiki it is essay to find example in nature and history of and our EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS. In preventive strategies diplomacy, aiki, immobilization shields and blocks can strongly reduce the necessity to use offensive strategies but should include a few effective attacks and strategies to become a complete defensive system. Other aspect tis that violence does not need to be destructive nor destruction need to be violent.
I think that was great at the Kung Fu(club?gym?) I went to since they had Sanda/Sanshou aswell. So well I started in Sanda then after a while I tried out some Kung Fu to expand my fighting. And the Qinna(?) got me to start with SW ^^ TLDR you could spar at the Sanda session aswell as Kung Fu
All people are reinventing bicycle again and again...good martial arts or bad.))...if you like KUNGFU with all fancy movements it is good. Why all people have to love only brutal or combat sport. Kung fu is traditional folk of the Chinese culture and Karate is a part of Japan. So many people still think Kung Fu/wushu is a form of fight? There is the combat sport called Sanda and Chinese people recognized it as the fighting system or boxing. All other stuff was recognized as a dance many, many years before even in China and sure, in the West..)
Brilliant. What He says is completely on the button. You could know all the theories in the world and even have devastating skills but unless you have real world experience it counts for NOTHING. That fear/apprehension you have before a fight can and for most untrained people be very debilitating. De-sensitizing through pressure testing is the only end result of any martial arts i believe.
Each and every single word is true. Fighting is not dancing. Often fights don't look good. Become a good boxer with footwork and an idea of positioning to survive at first. Adding some dirty things is not a big deal for a boxer. Give a boxer some grappling and you have a dangerous fighter. My few bad days on street were cleared in one or two secounds, but my hands were slightly injured. One of them was a dancer by the way. Unfair cause I had to lough.
It always fits these peoples narrative to assume traditional martial artists don't fight/spar. they thrive on feeding the fears and egos of insecure martial artists to earn a living.
Great video, a really great one. While yes I trained in the past, and Sensei said "do this do that", I can't help but remember his words (and other people in the serious realm of martial arts) advice: "but... avoid, really avoid if possible" and this included avoiding potentially dangerous situations (as in some bars, clubs, streets, etc) as the principle of self defense.
They'd been "training for years" and had never sparred with contact? I call bullshite. Oh, but you have the magic answer available to them if they are willing to pay you, right....?
Many good points. I am old now and started in the late 60s. In those days real fighting was taught. I started in judo and then moved to some of the striking styles for a long time. Intermixed I went to a boxing gym and trained as well. it did not take long to find out that a fist at the side would not work in the ring. The PKA came along and full contact karate showed basically boxing with kicks. elbows or throws were not allowed. The fighting arts were headed towards more realism by the late 70s. Then it stopped. The big fear was litigation. There were some large lawsuits due to injuries and the teachers backed off. Most of us it was a part time thing and we were not looking at making a living from it. So we got this watered down version that has no sparring and they teach forms and a few obsolete weapons. myself I quit teaching. I was not about to do it and got out of it
wheels have been modified a lot in the the last 200 years so I guess the wheel is a modern creation too... btw if you know any thai language or culture you will know that Muay Thai is the unarmed form of the ancient art of Krabi Krabong and has existed along side since the beginning. Muay Thai is a new name because Thailand is a new name for the country, don't confuse nomenclature for history and facts, yours truly, a Nak Muay.... Mai pen rai, farang.
Excellent video. The only martial arts I did that improved my ability to really fight were boxing, muay thai and BJJ. Traditional karate might improve your fitness and skills by about 10% and the Krav Maga I did had that issue mentioned about pretend eye gouges and groin strikes as though after one eye gouge or groin strike the opponent would disappear in a puff of smoke!
I love this. Kenpo guys are supposed to be sparring regularly and many of the senior practitioners in American Kenpo have gone on record to say that Kenpoists would benefit quite a bit from learning BJJ/grappling arts as well (see Michael Miller's book, 'Kenpo Perspectives' for citations). Thank you!
That part about the tendency of some traditional martial artists wanting to test their art on the streets was spot on. Those arts that don't focus on realistic training seem to create insecure and unstable personalities with a need to constantly prove themselves
Oh God yes. Haha, I remember the very first time I sparred, hahaha, WOW. I went in, with about 6 months of Shaolin Kung Fu experience, and just did basic bad boxing/kickboxing. My Sifu would have us spar about twice a week after 6 months. Luckily, the instructor I had at the time, was good, and pulled me to the side, joked with me, and made me realize I had to try the techniques we had learned. I had to find out what worked for me and what didn't, he was rare in that he wanted us to experiment and see what we were good at. About 60% of what we had learned I could never make work, but there was that 40% that really helped. I remember we would also grapple/roll at least once or twice a week as well which kind of helped when I started training BJJ, but of course, I got demolished (my very first time grappling was a complete and utter disaster). I did feel I had a head start though, and that was good. In regards to the sparring, I think what really helped me is my Sifu wanted us to at least try to make our Kung Fu work. The first few sessions were really rough, but it did get better, and even when I spar today, I still use some of my old Kung Fu. I think that if the traditional martial arts school one trains at refuses to spar, or worse doesn't try to use the techniques they are taught, they won't ever really improve. It will be just as you described it, and what I initially experienced. I remember I would try to experiment with these funky punches, and then I realized I couldn't get the timing down, or they were horse shit. Like a "crescent kick" I can't land that with any power, so I eliminated it from any sparring. Like I said though, I was able to after a few weeks start using my Kung Fu, and that was what made up my mind that most of these TMA folks aren't actually sparring or using their techniques. You aren't learning something that is useless, but you as Stephen said, *have to pressure test it* and don't give up.
REALITY FIGHTS ARE NOT BY THE NUMBERS.!!!.AS U WERE TRAIN IN CLASS.!!!.😧. THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO LEARN SOME BOXING FIRST.!!!. .FOR 3-6 MONTHS .TO FEEL THE PUNCHING Technics.!!!.& GET INTO GREAT SHAPE.!!!. 😎🇺🇸😎👍..
Hi Stephan, Cool video; I've been training in Taekwondo for the last 5 years and we do sparring regularly and I can safely say that first sparring is a very rough experience. in terms of technique going out the window I've found that planning is pretty much useless as more often than not I get the shit kicked out of me; I can SORT OF remember certain tactics/techniques and I can use them but it's as you said if someone is trying to do to me what I'm trying to do to them it's a lot harder. Thanks for not totally trashing traditional martial arts styles; I've seen so many videos similar to this one where the guys just shred TMA without any knowledge of the style they're ripping into so it's always nice to see someone who actually does know a thing or two - well done and keep 'em coming!
Make sure you check out the instructors lineage... where he got his training from and what belt he has... If they are training people that fight in the cage, that is usually a good gauge if the style you're looking at works. Also a good BJJ club that also does MMA or some striking is preferred, so you know that it's not just sport BJJ and you can actually modify it for the streets or do some other forms of mixed martial arts at the club. DO IT - I DARE YOU ... :) you won't regret it if you can get past the 1 month to 6 month mark :) Most can't make it though... it can get a little rough on the body if you're not used to it. Find a competent black belt in BJJ and go train and travel across the city to get there... it's well worth it. Good luck if you do decide to do it
Nice video Stephan. I laugh whenever I see a technique that involves catching the wrist & and doing some kind of wrist lock as a guy is punching you. Good luck with that. I guarantee you’ll eat 5-6 punches before you can catch my hand as I’m punching you. Trying to catch a punch at full speed is pretty much impossible.
What I find painful is that what are considered to be todays supposedly "traditional" martial artists don't spar much. A long time back, those training in traditional forms who were not yet allowed to spar by their teachers were considered unready pupils, not yet disciples or martial artists. Even then, they tended to get into fights now and then with those wishing to test their skill.
Thats right, like Mike Tyson said everybody has a plan until they got smacked in the head. Bruce Lee said, "Your worst enemy is the element of surprise. To defeat that enemy don't be surprised." I said, "Your greatest fear in life is not the fear. It’s the surprise." Basically the same thing I just worded it different. Thugs and criminals can offset skill with surprise and fear. Don’t fall for it.
At my gym we train to go only 45% when sparring (mainly because every one either goes to tourneys regularly or cage fight ) we have a mixture of mma , tkd , bjj, judo, and wrestling ( I for one am a 2nd Dan in tkd and strong mma/bjj background ) we all respect one another when sparring and know when too much contact is enough . I we've had muay Thai guys show up to our gym to train and for the most part it goes well until they get to agresdive then they get put in their place. The biggest issue now is for whatever reason people think one art is better than the other when in reality its what fits the artist. I for one hate single and double leg takdowns and prefer trips, tosses and throws . That doesn't mean the other wrestlers I train with I'm going to bash just because they never seem easy to me same with Thai fighters , I've noticed many lack respect that tkd karate and many other arts teach
1000% yes. I practice karate, bjj, and kung fu. And tbh, you need to practice to see how you would react in a fight. And once you get hit, only the most simplest principles work.
Fwiw, Bruce Lee didn't like sparring. If you want to get good at sparring, then spar. If you want to pressure test your traditional martial arts, you should occasionally go full speed or we had a drill we used to call "the game of death" (lol). One of my instructors called it "battlefield testing." But the really good martial artists I know drilled something until they had it down cold. Drill one technique over and over, against any and all attacks, then drill it full speed. Then if you get attacked, instead of growling (lol) and reverting to a haymaker, you will respond with your drilled technique, because that's what you practiced. But you can't do them all: practice one over and over in all kinds of conditions. Otherwise, yes, you will revert to bad boxing or a headlock. But if you train by sparring, then when you get attacked you will also react by sparring, which can also get you killed. I just saw a video of a guy who tried to box a guy with a knife. He's now dead; sparring didn't do him any good.
that's why i consider that one should always learn to spare before learning any style. the sad part is that most of those techniques that don't work anymore in sparring are not bullshit, but the practitioners only mastered the forms, not how to fight with them. from my experience, systema does the best job you could get without sparring to prepare yourself for fighting. the first time i did ground work was in judo, i had never done any grappling, my only experience in sparring was from tkd, and i just knew the principle of armbars and chokes from systema. the guy in front of me was a black belt slightly heavier than me, and he spent the whole 5min (though, he was going soft on me the first minute) of sparring to pass my "defense" (i can't call what it was at that time a guard while keeping a straight face). with the little bit of grappling principles we see in systema, i knew how to protect my arms and neck while staying balanced. the most troubling thing for me was to not put my hands on the face, because i was used to turning the head around to create space.
"NO plan of battle survives contact with the enemy"..... Remember your first working fire? SAME THING. And I recall Mike Tyson repeating something Sonny Liston may have said: "Everyone has a plan, until they get hit". And these are mostly true. After a while sparring and competing, OR.... after a few working fires "First-In" on the nozzle.... you have little "micro-plans" that mostly work, but are constantly adjusted to the adversary that did not obey. I think you are a firefighter, Stephan? I was 25 years nozzle man in NY for Rochester Fire, now with Park City Fire District. Studied Isshin Ryu and Wing CHun, only to discover USA Boxing and USKBA full contact. Like you, contact competition hanged my martial arts life. Now that I'm older, I'm looking into grappling, because I just don't think high school wrestling is enough as i get older and cant strike like i used to. Ever find yourself in PC, look me up at the Fire Marshal Office. Im the only boxer there.
So True, SO TRUE !!! I too have trained in Shao-lin Kem po and also Jow-ga, Wing Chun, Tai Chi, Aikido and Nan Tan Lan ( secret family style of southern Praying Mantis) and a semester of Aikido in college. I like to tell people that I got an A in Aikido ! ;-) But, you are so correct! First day if Wing Chun training we were free fighting. It the one style I've had the least amount of training in and the style I immediately revert to. All because of actual fighting ( not brawling). Our Sifu welcomed students from other styles to train under him. He wanted us to be able to defend against and defeat other stylists. Because of that, my skill level quickly escalated. There is no substitute for actual sparring, scrapping, fighting - whatever you want to call it. Oh, we didn't wear pads, except for the we elbow pads we wore on the inside of our arms to protect against welts from soft blocks.
Buuut almost every "traditional" martial art does some sparring. Karate dojos does sparring, at least 90% of them. Taekwondo dojos too, judo dojos, the list goes on. You could argue that the fighting style is garbage, but that's simply not true, it all depends on the FIGHTER, NOT on the art itself. I know how to implement my karate sparring moves in real life (and I have done it successfully), but I know I lot of people who don't know how to do that. Again, it depends on the fighter.
This has been empirical proven for ages now. UFC and K1 debunked these garbage arts. Your video is only anecdotal. Although I agree with you, you must prove the point through results, such as early UFC and k1 fights. Only one that I can give credit to is TKD and that's only if they decide to transition and take boxing/kickboxing type of art since they can then actually utilize their kicking techniques and flexibility that they have acquired but that's assuming they got taught by authentic TKD instructor that taught them good kicks, not mcdojos that just gave out belts.
LOLs at all these people who be like "I practice JKD, TKD, muay thai, bjj, wrestling, tai chi, boxing, wing chun and hapkido and every second sunday I practice Judo.." Just shut up
The reason I left karate and went to Taekwondo. In tkd - lots of free sparring, Less kata and a wide varety of techniques: low checking kicks, sweeps, spin backfist, jab, cross, double kicks. In my 1st month I received - full power spin back in the ribs, spin backfist in face, spin hook in the adams apple, and a axe kick that made me shorter. This was 1970's ITF tkd - not the olympic no punch style.
traditional martial arts spar all the time, stop giving traditional martial arts a bad name. its the abridged bullshit that claims to be traditional, but is unfortunatly watered down into a joke by people that dont care about the art. when you train traditional you are training to take your opponent out in the first or second move. I was a door man/bouncer for four years and only trained traditional. and against two or more people you find most things like modern MMA are total shit in the real world as well. find a school from a hard traditional Okinawan style, and go test your theory on one of them, see what happens. ua-cam.com/video/Pa8pplkkATI/v-deo.html
Of course. What happens the first time a boxer who just spent a year shadowboxing and hitting bags jumps in the ring with experienced boxers? He gets his ass kicked. That didn't happen to Mike Tyson though. Why not? Genetics? No. His pass time was jacking people and being jacked on the streets. To be a good fighter you have to fight.
No idea what this clown is going on about. When I trained in traditional Kung Fu you had to fight full contact for every grade after blue belt. We held competitions against local Muay Thai clubs and full contact Karate clubs. Japanese Ju Jitsu - rolling on the mat every session. Judo - the same. TKD - full contact sparring every session. Maybe I was just lucky(unlucky?) but every traditional club I have trained at was just as hard as the boxing or wrestling clubs I have also trained at. Sometimes they were even harder. People must be training at some really shit clubs these days. Only trained at one MMA club - found it fairly boring to be honest.
Everybody looks like crap when they spar for the first time. Traditional or non-traditional. What is non-traditional. Every martial art is the traditional martial art of somewhere. Western boxing, Graeco Roman wrestling, judo, kali, jiu jitsu, muay Thai. It's all someone's tradition.
Understanding how techniques feel and apply into actual combat is critical -- just knowing how to make the technique work is not enough, and just knowing how to make it look smooth is not enough (or even a concern; the concern is effectiveness). This means sparring with resistance is essential to training. I have a friend who, some years ago, was taking Jujitsu classes. He wanted to demonstrate to me one of his wrist lock take-downs. But he did not understand, because he was not shown by his instructor, a rather large number of key details -- how to safely attempt the technique without taking a strike for his trouble, how to "force" the technique past resistance, and what to do instead when it was clear the technique was about to fail. I showed him one moment in a fight where he might attempt the wrist grab, a few things that I (his attacker) would on reflex try to do in reply to his attempt, how to recognize and handle each one as he delivered the take-down, and what to go for instead when the wrist-lock failed to avoid losing control of the fight and/or getting struck with a major attack (aka hooking punch, elbow, knee, or kick from set position). I read through the comments here saying a number of Eastern martial arts fail in sparring -- spoiler, they don't. Instructors might fail to teach their art effectively (leading to students that cannot apply techniques in real combat), but the techniques themselves can be extremely effective especially when taught on top of a more pragmatic base of natural fighting footwork and punching. If you learn boxing and wrestling (basically "scrapping") and then learn another martial art afterward, you are incorporating knowledge rather than trying to use it as your foundation -- when you incorporate, all martial arts are effective. I grew up roughhousing with my friends. We beat each other up for fun, and in doing so learned the basics about what works and what doesn't. When you scrap, you learn footwork and range. You learn the basics of how to throw someone down or avoid being thrown down yourself. You learn where you can hold on and how to free your arm or your head when grabbed. It's not precise like formal training, but you do get a good feel for fighting and lose your fear of it. I have studied a number of martial arts at this point in my life, some of them closely. In pretty much every art I see where they work, why they work, and why they might fail when misapplied. I'd like to share a few observations: Aikido is actually quite deadly -- most people laugh at it because it's almost always taught in such a pacifist way (as a sort of spiritual path rather than a martial path), but the way Aikido operates would allow a vicious person to cripple you in seconds (far more than a punch or kick can reliably do). The art itself is not at fault for why it fails in combat. People don't often realize that Aikido is a favored art among bouncers, because it functions well to control people and keeps you in a standing position as you do so (to be alert for other people around you who might also try to harm you). Aikido is pretty much the only martial art you can learn that can be effective against multiple skilled attackers -- something better respected arts such as MMA training and boxing cannot say. Personally I consider Aikido to be the best martial art out there (wrist locks aside; these are the weakest and least useful techniques in the Aikido arsenal and over-trained at the expense of time on other ones). Wing Chun is fantastic when properly taught and incorporated into a more natural understanding of fighting. Wing Chun is an ambush art more than a martial art; you overwhelm a would-be attacker before they can set their stance or begin to attack you. It does not have a good response in-system against faster hooking punches, but when applied more naturally (using the knowledge but not always the form) instead of strictly (as if fighting another Wing Chun fighter) does not need one. A straight punch to the bicep shuts down a hook punch. Most Wing Chun practioners do not do this, and that's 80% of why they struggle against boxing techniques. Against anyone who isn't a skilled boxer, Wing Chun can be incredibly effective. I do feel that Wing Chun needs to incorporate Ninjitsu/boxing footwork into its art if it wishes to evolve into a better version of itself. Kung Fu and Tae Chi are both criticized as overly elaborate dance fighting, and impractical. But this comes from a gross misunderstanding of them, as it is easy to mimic/exaggerate their techniques but harder to actually know how to apply them in combat. Most people attempting to demonstrate these arts don't actually know them; they only know how to make their techniques look pristine, and not how to apply them in combat. Tae Chi is similar to Aikido when applied in combat, flowing around the attacker's limbs and attacking the attacker's balance to quickly end the conflict without killing the attacker (although crippling the attacker is quite easy, when such violence is needed). Kung Fu is actually a lot like MMA training when applied in combat -- movement and stance are fluid, defenses and counters are simple, and the emphasis is on speed with good mechanics more than on looking pretty. There is a reason that Bruce Lee evolved his Kung Fu rather than abandon it for a different way of fighting. I should probably also add, concerning Kung Fu, that things like "tiger claw" and "eagle claw" have a purpose. Those hand positions are not ornamental or inferior, but useful for certain applications of technique. One simple example I might give is that a tiger claw is a palm strike to the face that is also an eye gouge. Another example might be that an eagle claw is the best hand position to grab and hold onto parts of the arm that are too large to grab other ways (such as onto the bicep muscle). The odd position of the praying mantis hand allows for a simple upward finger thrust into the solar plexus, and with it you can drop a grown man with almost no application of force if you strike the correct spot. The movements of the snake hand are how you break out of a wrist lock quickly, and those same movements are also part of Wing Chun (although interpreted in a a different way) as a way to open/close striking lines while grappling. There's actually not that much nonsense out there. There are a lot of bad instructors, but very few bad arts.
That seems to be *the* one thing everyone can agree on: you can't learn how to fight if you never actually fight. Full stop. One question, Sifu: do you think that every single move/stance in Kung Fu taolu has a purpose in real-life fighting or is some of it just for show/aesthetics? It's a question that I haven't been able to find an answer to yet.
Hi stephan. Just a quick question. Im a 35 yr old bjj student. Not athletic. I check some jiu jitsu school but teach sport jiu jitsu. I try to enroll but quit because i got injured on the 5th day of sparring. Litterally first day of bjj they put me in a rolling sparring and this young buck kick my ass in the mat. Question i found a bjj who teach a Gracie style jiu jitsu. Im thingking i want to learn first the basic staff self defence before sparring like for atleast 4 months. What do you think of it? Thanks
It's all true. A real fight is fast, brutal, without sophisticated movements, without techniques. Whatever you're learning, you should have as many sparring as possible.
I’m curious. Are you telling me there are martial artists who train for any amount of time without ever sparing even once? I sparred when I was a white belt after only a month.
when I put my wing chun on the test with some kick boxers, I got the impression that I completely overestimated the power of a wing chun punch. kick boxers can easily take these punches. every WT practitioner should train for some time with muay thai, boxers, grapplers, etc. to understand the limits of the WT system better. however, in the end I still prefer WT. just a personal opinion.
You don't want to have to think in a fight. It's over too quick to think of techniques. Fights are so so fast that's why techniques don't really work. Can you do techniques when your getting punched 4 times a second. Can you block his barage of hits while you think of a technique. Grab his balls when your heads getting belted?
Before my first full range sparring seminar, I thought of using all sort of advance Taekwondo technique like spinning back hook etc. After I was threw onto the ground for the first time. I just wanted to hold on to my dear life and survive
hyy..the best fight is..as simple as possible...one strike..maybe one low kick..ground and pound..thats it..being fit..heavy and cold hearted makes you win..take care bye..
There are two things here. Bad techniques and lack of sparring. These "traditional" martial arts have bad techniques usually, but even if you got good technique like if you do a lot of boxing but only against guys that are not hitting you hard you will also get in a world of pain the first time somebody hits you hard in the head. So getting hit is the key but since I'm not a professional I'm not sacrificing my brain cells lol. I will stick with grappling and light sparring.
Crane parries are not used by catching a punch out of the air, lol. Of course if you try that you will fail. If you do not know how a technique works, in reality, not a 1 step bs application demo, that doesn't mean the technique is innefective. It just means your teacher did not show you. A good teacher actually spars with students and uses the techniques, and they work, and students can see - wow, he just did that move from the form! And then the teacher teaches you the SECRET, the part that bridges the gap between form and real fighting. Some teachers do not want to give this part away until students are advanced or in their inner circle. When you have a REAL teacher, he or she has fought countless times, using the style, possibly has video so students can see the application in real free sparing (either tournament where opponent is unfriendly and trying to win, or bare knuckle no protection challenge matches). Then, like you say, it is up to the individual to take that and spar themselves or you can't learn. If your school does not do a lot of sparring, go find a tournament to enter or spar with people in the park, something. Film yourself so when you get rocked in the face you can see later what you did wrong or what your opponent did to get that opening.
You act like people in traditional martial arts are going to punch in a sparring match like they would execute a middle punch in a kata. 😂 I hope no one does.[edit] just watched the rest of the video. I understand what you're talking about now. People who don't apply they're martial arts. I'm in tae kwon do, and I love sparring. If you don't apply what you've learned, you can't attain wisdom from it. Knowledge is powerless without wisdom, even more so, knowledge is a double edged sword and can be very dangerous without wisdom. It's why in so many movies and stories we here the old master tell his student to slow down on his path to power and to learn from the little he has already absorbed, rather than learning more and more and more
fake bullshido please don't take this guy serious actually go ahead you should totally try that opening moves he just did in a street fight lol might win haha
I have been practicing martial arts for over 45 years. Started my martial arts training in Okinawa where I was born and grew up. I also served in USMC. Every Marine base I went, I joined local base martial arts club. I have never heard of martial arts not doing any sparing. I don't understand this video. What martial arts does not ever do sparing and realistic fight training during their course of martial arts career?
While it's true that there are dojos out there that don't spar. There are many that do. The shotokan karate dojo that I go to has sparring at the end of every class. Also, not everyone's mindset is going to be "oh, I didn't do my technique effectively the first time, I might as well drop my stance and throw hay makers." Anyone with a brain will realize that their fighting skills won't be top notch right away when they're beginners.
If someone is moving towards you throwing crazy punches and your going backwards can you throw a kick? Anything that's banned in boxing is also good for defence and be the aggressor as usually the most aggressive in the fight wins.
What happens when you use self defense techniques while sparring... You get hit in the head and revert to boxing. Yes that's because boxing is a fighting system, martial arts are primarily self defense. Learn the difference but it could cost you dearly.
Is this a joke?! Those first few seconds looked awful. They look like something an 8th kyu would have to grade for a 7th kyu. And they would probably do it better.
Sparing is not fighting it's a training drill the same as pads or forms etc, if you practice Kenpo, Silat or any other combative i.e. None sporting system your sparing is going to be completely different to what you have been taught to do in 90 percent of your training. 1 you will be sparing another trained fighter not at all the same as a untrained thug in the street 2 you will have rules that you must abide by, this not only blunts your technique but also changes your mindset to the fight 3 you will know the sparing match is going to happen you probably won't know about the fight beforehand, so you will have a good grip on the fear factor 4 sport is sport combat is combat
Well it's true but it's true about all martial arts and not just traditional martial arts. Honestly you think a jujitsu guy would do good if he never ever got on the mat and tried to submit someone? Or a boxer who never sparred? Just noticed it's a self defense channel so....
I always think of martial arts as expansion packs, you should first learn to fight then pick a martial art that supplements your fighting style, can't expect to be good at fighting without fighting no matter how many moves you know, right?
At 4:19 (or 4:20 if you prefer) you talk about eye gouging and I think you said it's not a real escape in a street fight. That the person on top will just get angrier and start gouging the mounted person. You had me convinced with that theory... but footage of UFC fights contradicts your theory. UFC has proven that eye pokes/gouges can absolutely stop a fighter in his tracks. Jon Bones, Michael Bisping are fighters who have eye poked their opponents and stopped them cold. Alan Belcher did serious damage to Michael Bisping's eye. Alessio Sakara stuck his knuckle right into James Irving's (Irvin?) eye with some kind of lead hook punch. Caveat is that those are high level strikers so it would take striking and footwork skill/experience to eye poke/gouge someone in a pressure situation. You said "street fight". How did it get to the point where someone is mounted? At any time during that progression, the person who got mounted is probably getting their head cracked/bounced on the pavement too. Should the person on bottom just "when in doubt, bump it out"? The person on bottom should either cover up and pray for mercy or claw and bump and bite their way out because the bottom person is seriously out skilled or out-weighed or both. Or the person on bottom was already severely injured or beat up to let it get to that point so he doesn't have the energy and strength or quick-wittedness to use proper techniques to get out. About the eye pokes being unrealistic: there may also be difficulty reaching the person's eyes whether the person is tall and out of reach or the person on bottom is being pummeled with punches or a beer bottle so it might not be easy to reach or find the will to reach for the eyes.
You can witness this firsthand if you search for wing chun tournaments like Ip Man cup. These so-called martial artists come out all composed in their stances, but the moment the fight begins, they swing for the fences. All that technique is nonexistent.
I love this guy's videos but there are some really good American Kenpo schools out there of course I just now said some but American Kenpo is a very good martial art it's one of my favorites but I have seen some very crappy sparring in American Kenpo but with that being said I've seen some amazing sparring and Shotokan at the same time I seen some crappy sparring there is well I think it just depends on the style and the school and how important the instructor takes his teaching
Look there is nothing wrong with theses arts . But the problems is you're not fighting against people . And to be a great fighter . Western style boxing , wrestling, or some type of grappling . Kick boxing , mma . Theses are what you start with . Because you need to know how to fight first before theses other arts .
ok if there was no sparring, then it's not traditional. Karate, kung Fu, Muay Thai, these all contain sparring. A McDojo and a Traditional dojo aren't one and the same.
Didn't Carlson SR say punch a bjj black belt and he becomes a brown, again and he becomes a Blue? So it's not just the stand up arts it's anyone who gets struck in the face
Always the same arrogant shit. If you want to spar, why gloves, headgear, .. This is not a sport - you should know. The first blow with no gloves you get down.
This is more saying that if the muscle memory you have for your techniques isn't contextualized into actual sparring, then you're going to have a very hard time applying those techniques when there's pressure. That's mostly why it's better to start beginners off with lower intensity sparring, so they start to develop the right kind of reactions. As educational as the sparring match may have been for the two people in this example, it may have been more beneficial to start their matches at a lower intensity, so they can train the use of their techniques in the proper context before having to worry about the extra pressure, and from that point slowly build the intensity of their sparring matches. Otherwise you get instances like this, where someone essentially has a panic reaction to getting hit.
As a previous boxer I can say everyone can punch but what is most important is learning to block hits, 80% is learning not to get hit. Martial arts focus on striking.
This is pretty irrelevant for modern martial arts. Who is still training in an art that does not do sparring from a very early point? Maybe there are more schools still in this McDojo state than I realise. If your art is not pushing regular "FULL" contact sparring - with or without protective gear then change schools. If you do not want to change schools then you need to realise you are learning only the "art" part of your style.
Is it the martial art or is it the individual? I know some very good kempo guys that fight the way they teach. But the difference is these guys fight all the time period. If you never fought before you're going to get gunshot. But with practice they can make those take me come alive. We all were beginners ones
you are 100% correct . but the definition of sparring depends on the person and I have even see people who barely touch each other call it sparring . sparring in my eyes means you are basically fighting the guy with 70-80% intensity and you try to hit each other without any set movement patterns unlike in certain drills or technical sparring which are good too but they are only an exercise and dont replace actual sparring . if there are not occasional nose bleedings and black eyes etc. then it is not real sparring to me
Can't the same be said for bjjers especially the ones that mostly train for competition? Go into a bar with a false sense of security then learn right away that the skilled street fighter may get the upper hand especially when tunnel vision sets in and his buddy kicks the shit out of you when you take it to the ground? Lots of value though in what you said though however regardless of your bias or mine.
If a traditional martial artist haven't sparred regularly then they haven't trained in their art fully. Sparring should be practiced regularly when learning any martial art. If said school doesn't do sparring then it's a shit school!
What the hell kind or kempo were they doing??? Kempo is very sparring oriented with forms being more of an after thought. They still have forms and sets but sparring is a big part of it.
Click bait. You should say what school those Kempo guys are from if that really happened. Im sorry but I come from a kempo school and its not like that. Its all how good the teacher is.
Hey Stephan, great video. how do you feel about judo for self defense?
I think it's great, and underrated. To make it more functional for self defense I think you need to occasionally practice 1) closing the distance against someone trying to punch you with boxing gloves, 2) do newaza occasionally against someone trying to punch you wearing bag gloves or MMA gloves, and 3) avoid the turtle like the plague and work on your guard!
Thank you Stephan, I greatly appreciate your response as well as insight into martial arts! Much respect, I wish you well in your future endeavors and please keep the videos coming, I greatly enjoy them!
Great video as always, I completely agree pressure testing is not utilised enough in traditional arts or properly in most reality based self protection (I agree with your groin or eye gouge point) and as you say early stages of combat sports are not much better.
Great advice for judoka.
Judo is a good sport, but as a fighting style it's not complete...
Combine Judo with an MA that provides a solid stand-up game (Muay thai for instance) and you're good to go. Otherwise you'd need to rely on chance or luck to actually get a hold of your enemy without getting knocked out beforehand.
Glad my first striking place, Kenpo, made it mandatory to spar at least once before I could earn my first belt. The idea of black belts that never spared with hard contact just sounds silly.
Chippy Pippy once wtf dude that’s like saying you play basketball but only played one game
yea, once to earn the first belt. They had sparing every Friday. And my belt test wasn't just spar with one person, it was a couple hours of sparing with everyone in the dojo. As for the other belt requirements I don't know what they involve. I moved out of the area and started doing BJJ and kick boxing.
Just once? Better to have actually been in a few real fights
@alex jackson as long as those real fights were against real opponents. You don't learn much from sucker punching a drunk or beating on a 110lb nerd.
This is so frustrating. This video is going to bounce right off of the people who need to take it in the most. Everyone's going to say "They must not have trained REAL kenpo..."
I know another variation from the quote you gave:
“Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth” - Mike Tyson
face*
punthed*
Alioth Ancalagon everyone knows that
* bit on the ear.
+ Mary Smith
So I guess the entire thing has been caught on tape since you know exactly what happened without a doubt?
Love that "No sparring, no miracles" :)
This type of experience is what eventually led me to bjj. I thought my karate base was pretty solid, but live sparring with a wrestler made me take a long hard look at my training. Now, I didn’t just abandon everything I’d learned, but I realized that not all of my techniques were practical.
Jesus Christ. You are all right about everything that yal are stateing it is all true.
Wrestlers are built differently bruh
Shotokan Karate is mostly shit. In my experience they are more into theory than practice
This is one of the dangers of TMA. After being forced by my parents to do Tae Kwon do, I would still walk around school in fear that someone would pick a fight with me. Sure I had a black belt but I wasn't stupid. I knew I only had it because I could memorize kata and break fragile boards. I had zero confidence because I knew that I wasn't prepared for the real world. I don't like fighting and I'm not passionate about martial arts but if I was forced to practice something, I would've liked to practice something that would've given me confidence growing up.
Traditional martial arts don't have sparring? I trained Karate and Tae Kwon do growing up and both had sparring as integral part of training.
We had also a lot of sparring in Hapkido already 15 years ago with very minimal rules, like striking/kicking on the ground. However, this was probably because one of our instructors had background in Muay Thai and shootfighting.
I don't really get this traditional martial arts shaming from grown up people. I remember hearing this a lot as a kid: "judo is shit because I do karate and we break bricks with our hands!"
Most people don't want to fight in the UFC, and no matter how much you spar, you will probably get hospitalized in a street fight anyway if the other person would carry even a small a concealed knife and has some experience using it. Then again, if he didn't carry a knife, he'd probably be so drunk that you could beat him even though you had practiced only katas for five years.
If Fedor Emelianenko attacks you at the grill queue, you'll end up in a wheelchair with all your joints rotating 360 degrees, no matter how much you have sparred.
When people refer to TMA's that don't spar, more often than not they're referring to Chinese systems or styles that are often full of mysticism and bullshido. Obviously, this can include some styles of karate, as many of them don't spar. However, it's more about how these systems teach their delivery. For example, kicks work fine when you have good fighting fundamentals, but if you're learning within a system that never lets you spar, you'll have no idea behind the timing and power it takes to put someone down.
That said, even the sparring in TKD is limited. Yet, I would venture to say it's much better than many systems that preach deadly techniques that are never employed.
I do ITF style Tae Kwon Do where punches are allowed and its full contact, so its pretty much kickboxing with no kicks below the belt. WTF style is what you see in the Olympics, with just kicks. I studied Kyokushin Karate too which also had full contact sparring. I agree the teacher matters just as much as the style, as do the training methods. There are great fighters using Karate and Tae Kwon Do like Sage Northcutt, Wonderboy, Anthony Pettis, Yair Rodriguez and Connor McGregor and obviously legends like Anderson Silva, GSP, Bas Rutten and Lyoto Machida. I understand questioning the effectiveness of things like Aikido and Kung Fu, but clearly styles like Karate, Tae Kwon Do and even Judo are an effective part of many MMA fighters arsenal, so I don't understand the blanket TMA bashing rampant in MMA today. Respect to the traditional styles!
With all due respect, all those fighters you mentioned aren't using karate, kung-fu, etc... as their base. They're first and foremost mixed martial artists who have a background in those traditional arts. It doesn't mean they have revolved everything around their traditional arts, only that they came from those backgrounds. It still doesn't say much about TMAs being effective on their own.
There's no need to respect styles that claim certain things. If anything, it's disrespectful to lie about what something is or isn't, which is what many TMAs have been doing for years. And actually, it's not the MMA community that cares about what TMAs can or cannot do, it's people who grew up believing all the BS and finally realized it was all fake.
Truth Guy I never said they're effective on their own, but it's disingenuous to say those fighters don't use their traditional styles heavily in their fighting. Their stances, footwork, kicks, timing all heavily Karate and based. They've just added Jiu Jitsu, Wrestling or Boxing on top to round out their game. Anderson Silva and Yair Rodriguez literally fight like Tae Kwon Do fighters. Machida and Bas Rutten fought like Karate fighters. Connor McGregor moves like a Karate fighter and heck even uses Wing Chun boxing. That's why hes such an unusual and frustrating fighter; he trains in something others have written off as useless. I'm just saying clearly there's some use in those styles if high level fighters make them an integral part of their game. Sage Northcutt and Stephen Thompson are probably the best example of fighters who vocally credit their traditional background for their fighting ability.
When I was in the military reserves, we had to do the Physical Fitness Test, which consisted of push-ups, sit-ups and a 2-mile run. A lot of people would train for the 2-mile run by going on their home treadmill rather than actually going outdoors to run. The ones who trained on the treadmill would fail the 2-mile run because the treadmill is a lot different than running on a non-moving surface like a dirt road or pavement. I trained by running through all sorts of terrain like mud, gravel, sand, dirt, pavement, concrete, grass. I was able to still ace my 2-mile run when PT people made us run through gravel. A lot of people weren't prepared for that. But I was! :D
I believe that simple is always better since your fine motor skills are shut down during a stressful situation anyway boxing is an excellent foundation for standup combat it's simple and to the point nothing fancy.
Coming from a background in MMA,boxing, kickboxing, and Rugby. I recommend Sparology, its effective without taking damage, you teach people to tag each other without causing damage. Sparing hard is a waste and getting brain damaged is not good. Learn how to properly spar safely. Dont ever go to a boxing gym to spar they will hurt you bad, spar safely & roll safely. Are you will be severely injured
In my opinion if it doesn't focus on full-contact sparring or competition then it's not martial-arts. It's just arts. Martial means combat. If there is not combat, it's not martial.
Oh yeah? So how does traditional Japanese schools that were used in wars didn't have sparring? Like kukihsin Ryu, Takagi ryu jujutsu, etc. were they useless? If they were why were they teached for people kill each other?
@@fenkers3249,
They are useless.
Better to get beat up in the dojo than on the street. I have a Capoeira background, another traditional art that many don't take seriously. After I started learning Muay Thai and started doing more sparring, I too inevitably left a lot of techniques out. But also left some things in. I figured if I ever do get beat up I'd rather have it be in training than some thug on the street who's hell bent on my destruction.
LMAO!! Nice shirt to wear for this talk. I have been there and done that. That is why I started boxing and muay thai as a teenager, before BJJ 4 life. Because everything else I learned never worked in the streets.
I noticed when watching lots of kung fu fights, especially wing chun. They normally revert to slap fests and really bad wrestling.
It almost never looks like what they trained.
I would have preferred a video of this happening over you just telling me about it.
Sparring? Try full blast competition!!! Holy crap, what a huge difference!!!
Sad thing is that you're absolutely right
We adapted MMA for self defense more or less and eye gouges, while being a useful tool, are way too overrated in many self defense systems. Using eye gouges so he backs to the side a little making it easier to trap and roll? Go ahead! Using it to make him think about something else as you are trying to go for a choke? Great idea! But don't give me that "I am in a terrible position, but now I did an eye gouge so I won"-bullshit.
I've eye gouged in a fight, but I'm not a martial artist (traditional). Kickboxing, wrestling, and submission grappling. I had a dominate position, and because the guy attacked me with a steering wheel lock (and hit me with it) I eye gouged the shit out of him while grappling with him. I grabbed the side of his face and shoved my thumb SO FAR into his eye. I didn't need training in it :P That's why having the dominate position is the most important.
Scottius Maximus Well there are a few thing about eye-gouging you can actually train. Most peoples first try to eye-gouge can be easily prevented. If you are only going for one eye with forward pressure he just turns his head and you slip off.
But this is really just a minor thing.
If your eye-gouges suck that just weakens 2 or 3 things you could do. If your positioning sucks you are simply screwed.
Scottius Maximus: I do security work for bars and events and eye gouging doesn't work too well on someone who knows what they are doing.
I've been eye gouged and all it did to me was make me treat the guy really badly. I did things to him I would never do to someone in the club because they are considered "dick moves".
I've also put someone in an arm bar and they bit me... I then ripped apart his shoulder and elbow, which I normally wouldn't have cranked it so badly....
I could do all those things in a fight, but I choose to take people out with as little damage as possible. If they try that stuff on me though, I can be extras nasty.
Benjamin O'Neal I cannot recommend that at all. Reputation of a system is not doing shit for you if you are in trouble.
MMA might be a sport that is not ideal for the street. Otherwise there wouldn't have been any need for us to "adapt" it.
But a "sport" that does work is still better than a self deception program that does not.
Benjamin O'Neal said _"MMA isn't a self defense"_
MMA stands for mixed martial arts ... lol - it's a blend of all the best martial arts that work in real world environments... it's used for self defense and the US military uses most of the arts that work in MMA for the basis of their combatives program.
BJJ is used to get back to your feet or control someone... you know that ground stuff that you think is useless?? lol
Go learn about MMA and specifically BJJ from this Navy Seal
ua-cam.com/video/SGpDVCkhtD4/v-deo.html
What I don't really understand is how 'traditional' martial arts practitioners reached the point where they need to be told this. 'Back in the day' they used to spar, and to fight for real. Somewhere along the way this tradition of practice by doing got lost. I train Tang Soo Do (relatively modern but still considered a TMA) but am lucky that my master makes us spar week in, week out. Our Grand Master used to fight plenty as a young man, perhaps a little too much according to some, so that mentality still exists in our club. Even from my first days sparring I realised TSD punches kinda suck, so I train boxing to supplement it, they work nicely together. Without sparring I'd have been training a delusional style.
While most points are true, I am a bit bothered by the term "traditional" being used interchangeably as bullshit these days. The fact is, there are many bullshido schools around, and many of them masquerade as traditional schools (but not limited to) with their invented 'traditions'. However, there are also legit traditional martial arts that had their roots in the combative training of militia or local security force.
The problem is though, even within these styles, the schools tend to evolve (or devolve) into a sport, a fitness class, or a performance art. The ones that actually stick to their combative traditions do take some effort to find, and usually don't survive well, because when most parents send their kids to a martial art class, they are thinking sport / fitness / performance art, instead of a combative skill. So many it's an inevitability for their economical survival in a peaceful society.
Also more importantly, this is not only happening to traditional schools, but across the board in varying degrees. You can actually see several trendy styles starting to leave their self defense aspect behind to focus on just the sport., and bullshido schools starting to pop up in their names.
This is why I don't think it's helpful to dismiss all the traditional arts as bullshit. It might be more beneficial to just look at each school objectively, and figure out how if they do offer practical combative training, or if they are more of a sport / fitness /performance art place, or even just pure bullshido school.
LONG comment ahead:
I think that to answer this question some other question must be answered
First, if you want wan martial art to be nonviolent you will need to focus the art in defense but: Can you be always defended with no offense?
This is essentially the min point of the video. Against persistent enemies, that will no desist in their attacks nor change their mind, a nonviolent approach will fail. Have you tried to play a shooter without killing one enemy?. So the answer is: No, not allways.
If there is no way to ALWAYS possible to achieve defense in a nonviolent way, how much defensive can a defense art are became? This is not an easy question expessed in tis terms. But one way to partially answer it is finding an art focused in the best defense . So, Wich is the best defese?:
….
….
….
No attack: because you will not need to use resources for defend in nor repair damages form the attack. However it can be achieved in different ways and each one of this was has its limitations. To see this we must remember the basic elements needed to obtain any attack: the attacker, the attacked one, a reason for the attack, the attack and the medium for the attack. To completely eliminate any attack and the achieve the best defenses you need to eliminate at least one of this factors. So there you have some of the methods to achieve the best defense:
- There is no reason for attack: this is by far the best defense at long term because it allow to transform the “attacker” into a friend making both stronger. There is where diplomacy is usually best “art”. However in presence of INTENSE competition and limited resources, diplomacy may fail
-There is no attacked: if you are not there, you cannot be attacked. Here is where hiding and running are usually the best choice. However if the attacker if fast enough and persistent and sensitive you cannot run no hide (jua,jua jua..!)
-There is no medium to attack: if the attack cannot reach you, you are typically defended. Here is where shields and blocks are used. The man problem this this defense is the conservation of momentum: with portable shields and blocks the momentum of the attack will be traneared to the attacked.
-there is no attacker: if you destroy de attacker all problem seems to be solved. Here is there where “good offense” is useful. But for a good attack to be the best defense, the attack must be devastating: it must destroy any will to counter attack form the attacker, their families their friend and allies. Other way you will receive another attack, possibly stronger than yours.
- There is no attack: even if the attacker move towards the attacked one with motives, an can reach him , if the movement is not an attack there is no problem. Here lies the realm of immobilizations and the basis of Aiki. The main advantage of this is that you can gain time to get any of the other approaches. The problem with this approach is that you need to structure not only your movement but the movement of the attacker, which is very complicated unless you have one or few simple but generalist criteria to optimize the movement of the attacker -attached compound (the “do” of the art).
Except for the aiki it is essay to find example in nature and history of and our EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS.
In preventive strategies diplomacy, aiki, immobilization shields and blocks can strongly reduce the necessity to use offensive strategies but should include a few effective attacks and strategies to become a complete defensive system.
Other aspect tis that violence does not need to be destructive nor destruction need to be violent.
I think that was great at the Kung Fu(club?gym?) I went to since they had Sanda/Sanshou aswell. So well I started in Sanda then after a while I tried out some Kung Fu to expand my fighting.
And the Qinna(?) got me to start with SW ^^
TLDR you could spar at the Sanda session aswell as Kung Fu
All people are reinventing bicycle again and again...good martial arts or bad.))...if you like KUNGFU with all fancy movements it is good. Why all people have to love only brutal or combat sport. Kung fu is traditional folk of the Chinese culture and Karate is a part of Japan. So many people still think Kung Fu/wushu is a form of fight? There is the combat sport called Sanda and Chinese people recognized it as the fighting system or boxing. All other stuff was recognized as a dance many, many years before even in China and sure, in the West..)
Brilliant. What He says is completely on the button. You could know all the theories in the world and even have devastating skills but unless you have real world experience it counts for NOTHING. That fear/apprehension you have before a fight can and for most untrained people be very debilitating. De-sensitizing through pressure testing is the only end result of any martial arts i believe.
Each and every single word is true. Fighting is not dancing. Often fights don't look good. Become a good boxer with footwork and an idea of positioning to survive at first. Adding some dirty things is not a big deal for a boxer. Give a boxer some grappling and you have a dangerous fighter. My few bad days on street were cleared in one or two secounds, but my hands were slightly injured. One of them was a dancer by the way. Unfair cause I had to lough.
It always fits these peoples narrative to assume traditional martial artists don't fight/spar. they thrive on feeding the fears and egos of insecure martial artists to earn a living.
Now why would those martial artists have any fear if they ever did spar?
Face it buddy, most of them don't
Great video, a really great one. While yes I trained in the past, and Sensei said "do this do that", I can't help but remember his words (and other people in the serious realm of martial arts) advice: "but... avoid, really avoid if possible" and this included avoiding potentially dangerous situations (as in some bars, clubs, streets, etc) as the principle of self defense.
They'd been "training for years" and had never sparred with contact? I call bullshite. Oh, but you have the magic answer available to them if they are willing to pay you, right....?
Many good points. I am old now and started in the late 60s. In those days real fighting was taught. I started in judo and then moved to some of the striking styles for a long time. Intermixed I went to a boxing gym and trained as well. it did not take long to find out that a fist at the side would not work in the ring. The PKA came along and full contact karate showed basically boxing with kicks. elbows or throws were not allowed.
The fighting arts were headed towards more realism by the late 70s. Then it stopped. The big fear was litigation. There were some large lawsuits due to injuries and the teachers backed off. Most of us it was a part time thing and we were not looking at making a living from it. So we got this watered down version that has no sparring and they teach forms and a few obsolete weapons. myself I quit teaching. I was not about to do it and got out of it
Very, very true. I agree all styles go out the window once the pace goes full speed and unpredictable.
Thank god for Kyokushin karate
what you mean 'traditional martial arts'? Muay Thai, boxing and wrestling are all ancient
Radical Edwards Read the description.
U know what he means
muay thai comes from muay boran, not so ancient, wrestling and boxing are modified a lot in the last years... ancient? not so much
wheels have been modified a lot in the the last 200 years so I guess the wheel is a modern creation too... btw if you know any thai language or culture you will know that Muay Thai is the unarmed form of the ancient art of Krabi Krabong and has existed along side since the beginning. Muay Thai is a new name because Thailand is a new name for the country, don't confuse nomenclature for history and facts, yours truly, a Nak Muay.... Mai pen rai, farang.
and Muay Boran is most definitely ancient
Excellent video. The only martial arts I did that improved my ability to really fight were boxing, muay thai and BJJ. Traditional karate might improve your fitness and skills by about 10% and the Krav Maga I did had that issue mentioned about pretend eye gouges and groin strikes as though after one eye gouge or groin strike the opponent would disappear in a puff of smoke!
What about wrestling?
Sparring is about controlling your adrenaline. It's amazing.
I love this. Kenpo guys are supposed to be sparring regularly and many of the senior practitioners in American Kenpo have gone on record to say that Kenpoists would benefit quite a bit from learning BJJ/grappling arts as well (see Michael Miller's book, 'Kenpo Perspectives' for citations). Thank you!
That part about the tendency of some traditional martial artists wanting to test their art on the streets was spot on. Those arts that don't focus on realistic training seem to create insecure and unstable personalities with a need to constantly prove themselves
Oh God yes. Haha, I remember the very first time I sparred, hahaha, WOW. I went in, with about 6 months of Shaolin Kung Fu experience, and just did basic bad boxing/kickboxing. My Sifu would have us spar about twice a week after 6 months. Luckily, the instructor I had at the time, was good, and pulled me to the side, joked with me, and made me realize I had to try the techniques we had learned. I had to find out what worked for me and what didn't, he was rare in that he wanted us to experiment and see what we were good at. About 60% of what we had learned I could never make work, but there was that 40% that really helped. I remember we would also grapple/roll at least once or twice a week as well which kind of helped when I started training BJJ, but of course, I got demolished (my very first time grappling was a complete and utter disaster). I did feel I had a head start though, and that was good. In regards to the sparring, I think what really helped me is my Sifu wanted us to at least try to make our Kung Fu work. The first few sessions were really rough, but it did get better, and even when I spar today, I still use some of my old Kung Fu. I think that if the traditional martial arts school one trains at refuses to spar, or worse doesn't try to use the techniques they are taught, they won't ever really improve. It will be just as you described it, and what I initially experienced. I remember I would try to experiment with these funky punches, and then I realized I couldn't get the timing down, or they were horse shit. Like a "crescent kick" I can't land that with any power, so I eliminated it from any sparring. Like I said though, I was able to after a few weeks start using my Kung Fu, and that was what made up my mind that most of these TMA folks aren't actually sparring or using their techniques. You aren't learning something that is useless, but you as Stephen said, *have to pressure test it* and don't give up.
REALITY FIGHTS ARE NOT BY THE NUMBERS.!!!.AS U WERE TRAIN IN CLASS.!!!.😧. THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO LEARN SOME BOXING FIRST.!!!. .FOR 3-6 MONTHS .TO FEEL THE PUNCHING Technics.!!!.& GET INTO GREAT SHAPE.!!!. 😎🇺🇸😎👍..
Hi Stephan, Cool video; I've been training in Taekwondo for the last 5 years and we do sparring regularly and I can safely say that first sparring is a very rough experience. in terms of technique going out the window I've found that planning is pretty much useless as more often than not I get the shit kicked out of me; I can SORT OF remember certain tactics/techniques and I can use them but it's as you said if someone is trying to do to me what I'm trying to do to them it's a lot harder. Thanks for not totally trashing traditional martial arts styles; I've seen so many videos similar to this one where the guys just shred TMA without any knowledge of the style they're ripping into so it's always nice to see someone who actually does know a thing or two - well done and keep 'em coming!
Do yourself a favor and go try some brazilian jiu jitsu. It will change your whole outlook
Robert C. Christian I have been thinking about trying it out at some point, the trick is to find a place close to my house where they train
Make sure you check out the instructors lineage... where he got his training from and what belt he has... If they are training people that fight in the cage, that is usually a good gauge if the style you're looking at works. Also a good BJJ club that also does MMA or some striking is preferred, so you know that it's not just sport BJJ and you can actually modify it for the streets or do some other forms of mixed martial arts at the club.
DO IT - I DARE YOU ... :) you won't regret it if you can get past the 1 month to 6 month mark :) Most can't make it though... it can get a little rough on the body if you're not used to it. Find a competent black belt in BJJ and go train and travel across the city to get there... it's well worth it.
Good luck if you do decide to do it
Great video keep going
Nice video Stephan. I laugh whenever I see a technique that involves catching the wrist & and doing some kind of wrist lock as a guy is punching you. Good luck with that. I guarantee you’ll eat 5-6 punches before you can catch my hand as I’m punching you. Trying to catch a punch at full speed is pretty much impossible.
What I find painful is that what are considered to be todays supposedly "traditional" martial artists don't spar much. A long time back, those training in traditional forms who were not yet allowed to spar by their teachers were considered unready pupils, not yet disciples or martial artists. Even then, they tended to get into fights now and then with those wishing to test their skill.
was that a kata or was that you vogueing?
Thats right, like Mike Tyson said everybody has a plan until they got smacked in the head. Bruce Lee said, "Your worst enemy is the element of surprise. To defeat that enemy don't be surprised." I said, "Your greatest fear in life is not the fear. It’s the surprise." Basically the same thing I just worded it different. Thugs and criminals can offset skill with surprise and fear. Don’t fall for it.
At my gym we train to go only 45% when sparring (mainly because every one either goes to tourneys regularly or cage fight ) we have a mixture of mma , tkd , bjj, judo, and wrestling ( I for one am a 2nd Dan in tkd and strong mma/bjj background ) we all respect one another when sparring and know when too much contact is enough . I we've had muay Thai guys show up to our gym to train and for the most part it goes well until they get to agresdive then they get put in their place. The biggest issue now is for whatever reason people think one art is better than the other when in reality its what fits the artist. I for one hate single and double leg takdowns and prefer trips, tosses and throws . That doesn't mean the other wrestlers I train with I'm going to bash just because they never seem easy to me same with Thai fighters , I've noticed many lack respect that tkd karate and many other arts teach
1000% yes. I practice karate, bjj, and kung fu. And tbh, you need to practice to see how you would react in a fight. And once you get hit, only the most simplest principles work.
Fwiw, Bruce Lee didn't like sparring. If you want to get good at sparring, then spar. If you want to pressure test your traditional martial arts, you should occasionally go full speed or we had a drill we used to call "the game of death" (lol). One of my instructors called it "battlefield testing." But the really good martial artists I know drilled something until they had it down cold. Drill one technique over and over, against any and all attacks, then drill it full speed. Then if you get attacked, instead of growling (lol) and reverting to a haymaker, you will respond with your drilled technique, because that's what you practiced. But you can't do them all: practice one over and over in all kinds of conditions. Otherwise, yes, you will revert to bad boxing or a headlock.
But if you train by sparring, then when you get attacked you will also react by sparring, which can also get you killed. I just saw a video of a guy who tried to box a guy with a knife. He's now dead; sparring didn't do him any good.
WHAT DAMN KENPO SCHOOL DID THESE GUYS GO TO! My school was full contact sparring everyday!
that's why i consider that one should always learn to spare before learning any style.
the sad part is that most of those techniques that don't work anymore in sparring are not bullshit, but the practitioners only mastered the forms, not how to fight with them.
from my experience, systema does the best job you could get without sparring to prepare yourself for fighting. the first time i did ground work was in judo, i had never done any grappling, my only experience in sparring was from tkd, and i just knew the principle of armbars and chokes from systema. the guy in front of me was a black belt slightly heavier than me, and he spent the whole 5min (though, he was going soft on me the first minute) of sparring to pass my "defense" (i can't call what it was at that time a guard while keeping a straight face). with the little bit of grappling principles we see in systema, i knew how to protect my arms and neck while staying balanced.
the most troubling thing for me was to not put my hands on the face, because i was used to turning the head around to create space.
of course, without sparring, you're still not really ready to fight.
"NO plan of battle survives contact with the enemy"..... Remember your first working fire? SAME THING. And I recall Mike Tyson repeating something Sonny Liston may have said: "Everyone has a plan, until they get hit". And these are mostly true. After a while sparring and competing, OR.... after a few working fires "First-In" on the nozzle.... you have little "micro-plans" that mostly work, but are constantly adjusted to the adversary that did not obey. I think you are a firefighter, Stephan? I was 25 years nozzle man in NY for Rochester Fire, now with Park City Fire District. Studied Isshin Ryu and Wing CHun, only to discover USA Boxing and USKBA full contact. Like you, contact competition hanged my martial arts life. Now that I'm older, I'm looking into grappling, because I just don't think high school wrestling is enough as i get older and cant strike like i used to. Ever find yourself in PC, look me up at the Fire Marshal Office. Im the only boxer there.
I don't get this, I can't think of any martial art I did (TKD, Judo, Kung Fu) in which sparring wasn't a major part of the training.
I suggest doing your history and look up Blood and Guts. Also Jeff Speakmen kenpo 5.0. Take a look at Larry Tatum
So True, SO TRUE !!!
I too have trained in Shao-lin Kem po and also Jow-ga, Wing Chun, Tai Chi, Aikido and Nan Tan Lan ( secret family style of southern Praying Mantis) and a semester of Aikido in college. I like to tell people that I got an A in Aikido ! ;-)
But, you are so correct! First day if Wing Chun training we were free fighting. It the one style I've had the least amount of training in and the style I immediately revert to. All because of actual fighting ( not brawling). Our Sifu welcomed students from other styles to train under him. He wanted us to be able to defend against and defeat other stylists. Because of that, my skill level quickly escalated.
There is no substitute for actual sparring, scrapping, fighting - whatever you want to call it.
Oh, we didn't wear pads, except for the we elbow pads we wore on the inside of our arms to protect against welts from soft blocks.
Buuut almost every "traditional" martial art does some sparring. Karate dojos does sparring, at least 90% of them. Taekwondo dojos too, judo dojos, the list goes on. You could argue that the fighting style is garbage, but that's simply not true, it all depends on the FIGHTER, NOT on the art itself. I know how to implement my karate sparring moves in real life (and I have done it successfully), but I know I lot of people who don't know how to do that. Again, it depends on the fighter.
This has been empirical proven for ages now. UFC and K1 debunked these garbage arts. Your video is only anecdotal. Although I agree with you, you must prove the point through results, such as early UFC and k1 fights.
Only one that I can give credit to is TKD and that's only if they decide to transition and take boxing/kickboxing type of art since they can then actually utilize their kicking techniques and flexibility that they have acquired but that's assuming they got taught by authentic TKD instructor that taught them good kicks, not mcdojos that just gave out belts.
LOLs at all these people who be like "I practice JKD, TKD, muay thai, bjj, wrestling, tai chi, boxing, wing chun and hapkido and every second sunday I practice Judo.."
Just shut up
The reason I left karate and went to Taekwondo. In tkd - lots of free sparring, Less kata and a wide varety of techniques: low checking kicks, sweeps, spin backfist, jab, cross, double kicks.
In my 1st month I received - full power spin back in the ribs, spin backfist in face, spin hook in the adams apple, and a axe kick that made me shorter.
This was 1970's ITF tkd - not the olympic no punch style.
traditional martial arts spar all the time, stop giving traditional martial arts a bad name. its the abridged bullshit that claims to be traditional, but is unfortunatly watered down into a joke by people that dont care about the art. when you train traditional you are training to take your opponent out in the first or second move. I was a door man/bouncer for four years and only trained traditional. and against two or more people you find most things like modern MMA are total shit in the real world as well. find a school from a hard traditional Okinawan style, and go test your theory on one of them, see what happens. ua-cam.com/video/Pa8pplkkATI/v-deo.html
Of course. What happens the first time a boxer who just spent a year shadowboxing and hitting bags jumps in the ring with experienced boxers? He gets his ass kicked.
That didn't happen to Mike Tyson though. Why not? Genetics? No. His pass time was jacking people and being jacked on the streets. To be a good fighter you have to fight.
No idea what this clown is going on about. When I trained in traditional Kung Fu you had to fight full contact for every grade after blue belt. We held competitions against local Muay Thai clubs and full contact Karate clubs. Japanese Ju Jitsu - rolling on the mat every session. Judo - the same. TKD - full contact sparring every session. Maybe I was just lucky(unlucky?) but every traditional club I have trained at was just as hard as the boxing or wrestling clubs I have also trained at. Sometimes they were even harder. People must be training at some really shit clubs these days. Only trained at one MMA club - found it fairly boring to be honest.
Everybody looks like crap when they spar for the first time. Traditional or non-traditional. What is non-traditional. Every martial art is the traditional martial art of somewhere. Western boxing, Graeco Roman wrestling, judo, kali, jiu jitsu, muay Thai. It's all someone's tradition.
Understanding how techniques feel and apply into actual combat is critical -- just knowing how to make the technique work is not enough, and just knowing how to make it look smooth is not enough (or even a concern; the concern is effectiveness).
This means sparring with resistance is essential to training.
I have a friend who, some years ago, was taking Jujitsu classes. He wanted to demonstrate to me one of his wrist lock take-downs. But he did not understand, because he was not shown by his instructor, a rather large number of key details -- how to safely attempt the technique without taking a strike for his trouble, how to "force" the technique past resistance, and what to do instead when it was clear the technique was about to fail. I showed him one moment in a fight where he might attempt the wrist grab, a few things that I (his attacker) would on reflex try to do in reply to his attempt, how to recognize and handle each one as he delivered the take-down, and what to go for instead when the wrist-lock failed to avoid losing control of the fight and/or getting struck with a major attack (aka hooking punch, elbow, knee, or kick from set position).
I read through the comments here saying a number of Eastern martial arts fail in sparring -- spoiler, they don't. Instructors might fail to teach their art effectively (leading to students that cannot apply techniques in real combat), but the techniques themselves can be extremely effective especially when taught on top of a more pragmatic base of natural fighting footwork and punching. If you learn boxing and wrestling (basically "scrapping") and then learn another martial art afterward, you are incorporating knowledge rather than trying to use it as your foundation -- when you incorporate, all martial arts are effective.
I grew up roughhousing with my friends. We beat each other up for fun, and in doing so learned the basics about what works and what doesn't. When you scrap, you learn footwork and range. You learn the basics of how to throw someone down or avoid being thrown down yourself. You learn where you can hold on and how to free your arm or your head when grabbed. It's not precise like formal training, but you do get a good feel for fighting and lose your fear of it.
I have studied a number of martial arts at this point in my life, some of them closely. In pretty much every art I see where they work, why they work, and why they might fail when misapplied. I'd like to share a few observations:
Aikido is actually quite deadly -- most people laugh at it because it's almost always taught in such a pacifist way (as a sort of spiritual path rather than a martial path), but the way Aikido operates would allow a vicious person to cripple you in seconds (far more than a punch or kick can reliably do). The art itself is not at fault for why it fails in combat. People don't often realize that Aikido is a favored art among bouncers, because it functions well to control people and keeps you in a standing position as you do so (to be alert for other people around you who might also try to harm you). Aikido is pretty much the only martial art you can learn that can be effective against multiple skilled attackers -- something better respected arts such as MMA training and boxing cannot say. Personally I consider Aikido to be the best martial art out there (wrist locks aside; these are the weakest and least useful techniques in the Aikido arsenal and over-trained at the expense of time on other ones).
Wing Chun is fantastic when properly taught and incorporated into a more natural understanding of fighting. Wing Chun is an ambush art more than a martial art; you overwhelm a would-be attacker before they can set their stance or begin to attack you. It does not have a good response in-system against faster hooking punches, but when applied more naturally (using the knowledge but not always the form) instead of strictly (as if fighting another Wing Chun fighter) does not need one. A straight punch to the bicep shuts down a hook punch. Most Wing Chun practioners do not do this, and that's 80% of why they struggle against boxing techniques. Against anyone who isn't a skilled boxer, Wing Chun can be incredibly effective. I do feel that Wing Chun needs to incorporate Ninjitsu/boxing footwork into its art if it wishes to evolve into a better version of itself.
Kung Fu and Tae Chi are both criticized as overly elaborate dance fighting, and impractical. But this comes from a gross misunderstanding of them, as it is easy to mimic/exaggerate their techniques but harder to actually know how to apply them in combat. Most people attempting to demonstrate these arts don't actually know them; they only know how to make their techniques look pristine, and not how to apply them in combat. Tae Chi is similar to Aikido when applied in combat, flowing around the attacker's limbs and attacking the attacker's balance to quickly end the conflict without killing the attacker (although crippling the attacker is quite easy, when such violence is needed). Kung Fu is actually a lot like MMA training when applied in combat -- movement and stance are fluid, defenses and counters are simple, and the emphasis is on speed with good mechanics more than on looking pretty. There is a reason that Bruce Lee evolved his Kung Fu rather than abandon it for a different way of fighting.
I should probably also add, concerning Kung Fu, that things like "tiger claw" and "eagle claw" have a purpose. Those hand positions are not ornamental or inferior, but useful for certain applications of technique. One simple example I might give is that a tiger claw is a palm strike to the face that is also an eye gouge. Another example might be that an eagle claw is the best hand position to grab and hold onto parts of the arm that are too large to grab other ways (such as onto the bicep muscle). The odd position of the praying mantis hand allows for a simple upward finger thrust into the solar plexus, and with it you can drop a grown man with almost no application of force if you strike the correct spot. The movements of the snake hand are how you break out of a wrist lock quickly, and those same movements are also part of Wing Chun (although interpreted in a a different way) as a way to open/close striking lines while grappling.
There's actually not that much nonsense out there. There are a lot of bad instructors, but very few bad arts.
That seems to be *the* one thing everyone can agree on: you can't learn how to fight if you never actually fight. Full stop.
One question, Sifu: do you think that every single move/stance in Kung Fu taolu has a purpose in real-life fighting or is some of it just for show/aesthetics? It's a question that I haven't been able to find an answer to yet.
Hi stephan. Just a quick question. Im a 35 yr old bjj student. Not athletic. I check some jiu jitsu school but teach sport jiu jitsu. I try to enroll but quit because i got injured on the 5th day of sparring. Litterally first day of bjj they put me in a rolling sparring and this young buck kick my ass in the mat. Question i found a bjj who teach a Gracie style jiu jitsu. Im thingking i want to learn first the basic staff self defence before sparring like for atleast 4 months. What do you think of it? Thanks
It's all true. A real fight is fast, brutal, without sophisticated movements, without techniques. Whatever you're learning, you should have as many sparring as possible.
I’m curious. Are you telling me there are martial artists who train for any amount of time without ever sparing even once? I sparred when I was a white belt after only a month.
when I put my wing chun on the test with some kick boxers, I got the impression that I completely overestimated the power of a wing chun punch. kick boxers can easily take these punches. every WT practitioner should train for some time with muay thai, boxers, grapplers, etc. to understand the limits of the WT system better. however, in the end I still prefer WT. just a personal opinion.
You don't want to have to think in a fight. It's over too quick to think of techniques. Fights are so so fast that's why techniques don't really work. Can you do techniques when your getting punched 4 times a second. Can you block his barage of hits while you think of a technique. Grab his balls when your heads getting belted?
Before my first full range sparring seminar, I thought of using all sort of advance Taekwondo technique like spinning back hook etc.
After I was threw onto the ground for the first time. I just wanted to hold on to my dear life and survive
hyy..the best fight is..as simple as possible...one strike..maybe one low kick..ground and pound..thats it..being fit..heavy and cold hearted makes you win..take care bye..
There are two things here. Bad techniques and lack of sparring. These "traditional" martial arts have bad techniques usually, but even if you got good technique like if you do a lot of boxing but only against guys that are not hitting you hard you will also get in a world of pain the first time somebody hits you hard in the head.
So getting hit is the key but since I'm not a professional I'm not sacrificing my brain cells lol. I will stick with grappling and light sparring.
Crane parries are not used by catching a punch out of the air, lol. Of course if you try that you will fail. If you do not know how a technique works, in reality, not a 1 step bs application demo, that doesn't mean the technique is innefective. It just means your teacher did not show you.
A good teacher actually spars with students and uses the techniques, and they work, and students can see - wow, he just did that move from the form! And then the teacher teaches you the SECRET, the part that bridges the gap between form and real fighting. Some teachers do not want to give this part away until students are advanced or in their inner circle.
When you have a REAL teacher, he or she has fought countless times, using the style, possibly has video so students can see the application in real free sparing (either tournament where opponent is unfriendly and trying to win, or bare knuckle no protection challenge matches). Then, like you say, it is up to the individual to take that and spar themselves or you can't learn.
If your school does not do a lot of sparring, go find a tournament to enter or spar with people in the park, something. Film yourself so when you get rocked in the face you can see later what you did wrong or what your opponent did to get that opening.
You act like people in traditional martial arts are going to punch in a sparring match like they would execute a middle punch in a kata. 😂 I hope no one does.[edit] just watched the rest of the video. I understand what you're talking about now. People who don't apply they're martial arts. I'm in tae kwon do, and I love sparring. If you don't apply what you've learned, you can't attain wisdom from it. Knowledge is powerless without wisdom, even more so, knowledge is a double edged sword and can be very dangerous without wisdom. It's why in so many movies and stories we here the old master tell his student to slow down on his path to power and to learn from the little he has already absorbed, rather than learning more and more and more
fake bullshido please don't take this guy serious actually go ahead you should totally try that opening moves he just did in a street fight lol might win haha
I have been practicing martial arts for over 45 years. Started my martial arts training in Okinawa where I was born and grew up. I also served in USMC. Every Marine base I went, I joined local base martial arts club. I have never heard of martial arts not doing any sparing. I don't understand this video. What martial arts does not ever do sparing and realistic fight training during their course of martial arts career?
While it's true that there are dojos out there that don't spar. There are many that do. The shotokan karate dojo that I go to has sparring at the end of every class. Also, not everyone's mindset is going to be "oh, I didn't do my technique effectively the first time, I might as well drop my stance and throw hay makers." Anyone with a brain will realize that their fighting skills won't be top notch right away when they're beginners.
If someone is moving towards you throwing crazy punches and your going backwards can you throw a kick? Anything that's banned in boxing is also good for defence and be the aggressor as usually the most aggressive in the fight wins.
What happens when you use self defense techniques while sparring... You get hit in the head and revert to boxing. Yes that's because boxing is a fighting system, martial arts are primarily self defense. Learn the difference but it could cost you dearly.
Is this a joke?! Those first few seconds looked awful. They look like something an 8th kyu would have to grade for a 7th kyu. And they would probably do it better.
Sparing is not fighting it's a training drill the same as pads or forms etc, if you practice Kenpo, Silat or any other combative i.e. None sporting system your sparing is going to be completely different to what you have been taught to do in 90 percent of your training.
1 you will be sparing another trained fighter not at all the same as a untrained thug in the street
2 you will have rules that you must abide by, this not only blunts your technique but also changes your mindset to the fight
3 you will know the sparing match is going to happen you probably won't know about the fight beforehand, so you will have a good grip on the fear factor
4 sport is sport combat is combat
Well it's true but it's true about all martial arts and not just traditional martial arts. Honestly you think a jujitsu guy would do good if he never ever got on the mat and tried to submit someone? Or a boxer who never sparred?
Just noticed it's a self defense channel so....
I always think of martial arts as expansion packs, you should first learn to fight then pick a martial art that supplements your fighting style, can't expect to be good at fighting without fighting no matter how many moves you know, right?
At 4:19 (or 4:20 if you prefer) you talk about eye gouging and I think you said it's not a real escape in a street fight. That the person on top will just get angrier and start gouging the mounted person. You had me convinced with that theory... but footage of UFC fights contradicts your theory. UFC has proven that eye pokes/gouges can absolutely stop a fighter in his tracks. Jon Bones, Michael Bisping are fighters who have eye poked their opponents and stopped them cold. Alan Belcher did serious damage to Michael Bisping's eye. Alessio Sakara stuck his knuckle right into James Irving's (Irvin?) eye with some kind of lead hook punch. Caveat is that those are high level strikers so it would take striking and footwork skill/experience to eye poke/gouge someone in a pressure situation. You said "street fight". How did it get to the point where someone is mounted? At any time during that progression, the person who got mounted is probably getting their head cracked/bounced on the pavement too. Should the person on bottom just "when in doubt, bump it out"? The person on bottom should either cover up and pray for mercy or claw and bump and bite their way out because the bottom person is seriously out skilled or out-weighed or both. Or the person on bottom was already severely injured or beat up to let it get to that point so he doesn't have the energy and strength or quick-wittedness to use proper techniques to get out. About the eye pokes being unrealistic: there may also be difficulty reaching the person's eyes whether the person is tall and out of reach or the person on bottom is being pummeled with punches or a beer bottle so it might not be easy to reach or find the will to reach for the eyes.
You can witness this firsthand if you search for wing chun tournaments like Ip Man cup. These so-called martial artists come out all composed in their stances, but the moment the fight begins, they swing for the fences. All that technique is nonexistent.
I love this guy's videos but there are some really good American Kenpo schools out there of course I just now said some but American Kenpo is a very good martial art it's one of my favorites but I have seen some very crappy sparring in American Kenpo but with that being said I've seen some amazing sparring and Shotokan at the same time I seen some crappy sparring there is well I think it just depends on the style and the school and how important the instructor takes his teaching
Look there is nothing wrong with theses arts . But the problems is you're not fighting against people . And to be a great fighter . Western style boxing , wrestling, or some type of grappling . Kick boxing , mma . Theses are what you start with . Because you need to know how to fight first before theses other arts .
ok if there was no sparring, then it's not traditional. Karate, kung Fu, Muay Thai, these all contain sparring. A McDojo and a Traditional dojo aren't one and the same.
Didn't Carlson SR say punch a bjj black belt and he becomes a brown, again and he becomes a Blue? So it's not just the stand up arts it's anyone who gets struck in the face
Real talk here. Haven't ever heard talk this real ever. Certain points it felt like he was talking directly to me. Respect.
Always the same arrogant shit. If you want to spar, why gloves, headgear, ..
This is not a sport - you should know. The first blow with no gloves you get down.
This is more saying that if the muscle memory you have for your techniques isn't contextualized into actual sparring, then you're going to have a very hard time applying those techniques when there's pressure. That's mostly why it's better to start beginners off with lower intensity sparring, so they start to develop the right kind of reactions. As educational as the sparring match may have been for the two people in this example, it may have been more beneficial to start their matches at a lower intensity, so they can train the use of their techniques in the proper context before having to worry about the extra pressure, and from that point slowly build the intensity of their sparring matches. Otherwise you get instances like this, where someone essentially has a panic reaction to getting hit.
As a previous boxer I can say everyone can punch but what is most important is learning to block hits, 80% is learning not to get hit. Martial arts focus on striking.
This is pretty irrelevant for modern martial arts. Who is still training in an art that does not do sparring from a very early point? Maybe there are more schools still in this McDojo state than I realise. If your art is not pushing regular "FULL" contact sparring - with or without protective gear then change schools. If you do not want to change schools then you need to realise you are learning only the "art" part of your style.
Is it the martial art or is it the individual? I know some very good kempo guys that fight the way they teach. But the difference is these guys fight all the time period. If you never fought before you're going to get gunshot. But with practice they can make those take me come alive. We all were beginners ones
you are 100% correct . but the definition of sparring depends on the person and I have even see people who barely touch each other call it sparring . sparring in my eyes means you are basically fighting the guy with 70-80% intensity and you try to hit each other without any set movement patterns unlike in certain drills or technical sparring which are good too but they are only an exercise and dont replace actual sparring . if there are not occasional nose bleedings and black eyes etc. then it is not real sparring to me
Can't the same be said for bjjers especially the ones that mostly train for competition?
Go into a bar with a false sense of security then learn right away that the skilled street fighter may get the upper hand especially when tunnel vision sets in and his buddy kicks the shit out of you when you take it to the ground? Lots of value though in what you said though however regardless of your bias or mine.
If a traditional martial artist haven't sparred regularly then they haven't trained in their art fully.
Sparring should be practiced regularly when learning any martial art. If said school doesn't do sparring then it's a shit school!
What the hell kind or kempo were they doing??? Kempo is very sparring oriented with forms being more of an after thought. They still have forms and sets but sparring is a big part of it.
Click bait. You should say what school those Kempo guys are from if that really happened. Im sorry but I come from a kempo school and its not like that. Its all how good the teacher is.