CAN HASHATON + SPLIT SECOND BREAK THE cEDH META?!

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  • Опубліковано 2 лют 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 97

  • @thunderconductor
    @thunderconductor  6 днів тому +4

    Hey Fam!
    TTC made a couple oopsies during the Playtest Hand 🤭:
    1) @ 2:24:00 I used [[Fellwar Stone]] to cast my commander on Turn 1 Seat 1. Though we could assume that an opponent could have a [[Gemstone Caverns]] on board, it is far too inconsistent to make this assumption. Also, since this video, I have switched out [[Fellwar Stone]] for [[Talisman of Dominance]] to help w/ early game consistency. (Also, meaning that I would’ve been 2 life lower in my Playtest game)
    2) With this switch out in mind, @ 2:27:29 I couldn’t have casted Grand Abolisher. However, this is fine because I drew drew [[Silence]], [[Fierce Guardianship]], and [[Valley Floodcaller]], meaning that my opponent’s would need 3 counterspells on my turn 3 (seat 1) to stop me from performing the shown combo in the video!
    Let me know if I missed anything else below!
    And Be Great!

  • @LNRDi
    @LNRDi 3 дні тому +4

    14:56 - the other ways to interact with this combo are the same as your combo actually, they're other latent triggered abilities sitting on the field/in the grave/etc. There are lots of these, but they have to already be on the board. (Aboleth Spawn, Elesh Norn Mother of Machines, Strict Proctor are directly related to triggers but any trigger that can interact with reanimation, token creation, cards in the graveyard, etc. would still work too.)

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  3 дні тому

      @LNRDi Hey bro, this is VERY true!
      I will add that since we also have [[Laboratory Maniac]] & both Chromatic mana filters (that draw as part of their mana abilties) included, we're still able to pull off this split second finisher still while avoiding these ETB hate piece!!!
      (Notibly: We would need to leverage T Pact or D. Consultation before casting the S.S. spell & cracking LED to pull this off! (It may sound crazy to pull off this reverse line, but just wait for next week's gameplay video for a LIVE example!!!))
      As for [[Strict Proctor]] & [[Aboleth Spawn]], these are AWESOME triggered abilities that do trigger while Split Second is active!!! However, Aboleth Spawn copying Thassa's ETB doesn't mean anything for your opponent's unless they already emptied their library/have a high enough devotion before you cast your split second spell, which is possible but not likely. Also, Strict Proctor is an AWESOME stax piece that could really slow down this combo's turbo potential! However, it falls prey to the same problem a lot of stax pieces fall prey to in cEDH, which is *removal* (i.e. remove stax then lock people out w/ S.S., which currently in the meta people don't see it coming bc there's nothing like this currently happening) and *patience* (wait till you have the extra mana and/or cards to play THROUGH the stax piece(s) on board).
      I say all this to say:
      1) These are absolutely AMAZING examples of your original point that triggered abilties and static effects still work through Split Second and can disrupt/slow down the line!
      2) This more shows how (with good deck building), this new Split Second line is completely BUSTED and is able to play through *almost* everything that Magic has put out, thus far!
      I pray that this feedback's intention is received!
      Be Great!!!

    • @LNRDi
      @LNRDi 3 дні тому +1

      @@thunderconductor yeah exactly, you get it. Thanks for the reply! I think the Leveler line is just a bit too mana intensive/slow for a lot of tables, but playing this as a relatively standard Pact/Consulation/Oracle deck that can entirely get around having to cast oracle/activated abilities to interrupt it's ETB is a good idea and it's in the right color identities for using some of the best split second cards.

    • @LNRDi
      @LNRDi 3 дні тому +1

      @@thunderconductor OH! One last tech for you: since you're playing Angel's Grace you can play Spoils of the Vault as an extra copy of Pact/Consultation.

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  3 дні тому

      @@LNRDi Thanks for the suggestion, I'll check it out!

  • @ThisNameIsBanned
    @ThisNameIsBanned 3 дні тому +4

    Split second only stops spells and activated abilities.
    TRIGGER still work and special actions still work (like turning a morph creature face up) , which potentially could be interaction, but realistically nobody plays morph creatures anyway.
    Counter Balance is something you might see and they still get triggers of other potential stax pieces.

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  3 дні тому +1

      @ThisNameIsBanned Yep and Bingo!!! That's exactly what we were looking to break w/ this Hashaton brew! (Split Second + Hashaton's Triggered Ability)
      Also, you're right ✅️. It escaped my mind at the time, but there was one morph creature (i.e. [[Kadena's Silencer]]) that is able to stop us during the Split Second combo line. However, as you said, I also don't think we'll realistically see it in the meta, even after this win line starts to see more popularity.
      Lastly, counterbalance is something that came to our minds as we were brewing this list, but soon realized that it has ZERO effect on our S.S. combo line bc: A) Counterbalance only counter spells not triggered abilties (so it won't effect Hashaton's ability), & B) We are able to hold priority and respond to the Counterbalance's trigger by cracking LED & winning while it's trigger is still on the stack (similar to responding to an opponent's Rhystic Study trigger)!!! 🏆

  • @Teknomahge
    @Teknomahge День тому +2

    Love, love, love this deck, your play style (which I will adapt for this deck) and the card by card discussion. A few cards i may have missed while watching over several sessions: Takenuma, Abandoned Mire; Malevolent Hermit and Chain of Mephistopheles

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  День тому

      @Teknomahge Hey Tek,
      Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!! 🙏🏽
      You actually asked a REALLY great question! Cus no, you didn't miss them bc we didn't discuss them in this video 🥲, BUT we have been discussing these cards and more in the TC Community Discord under the Hashaton Thread:
      discord.gg/G99j6JZdbA
      discord.com/channels/1054934475957612544/1332162374328909927
      Please come join and drop these questions below to get the whole community's insight and perspective on these and more cards!!!
      I'm looking forward to chatting! Be Great!!!

  • @bstampl1
    @bstampl1 5 днів тому +4

    SUBSCRIBED! This is the first video of yours I've ever seen and I was skeptical when you mentioned split second, but this is brilliant. I'm really impressed

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  5 днів тому

      THANK YOU, BRO!!!
      Big S/O to @Holden_Prio to coming up w/ it frfr

  • @Holden_Prio
    @Holden_Prio 5 днів тому +3

    Really excellent video, and great breakdown. So glad we got a chance to talk and that you’ve taking the list in your own super cool direction! Great stuff bud.

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  5 днів тому

      @Holden_Prio Thank bro!!! And thank you again for introducing the original concept to me and the rest of the cEDH community 🙌🏾🙏🏽💯

  • @mave6602
    @mave6602 3 дні тому +2

    I'm a casual combo player and I honestly love the idea of using (sth like) Lion's Eye Diamond with Hashaton. I simply wanted to build a New Perspective Cycling deck arround him. Now I kinda want to put Diamon Lion in there and make copy tokens of it and then combo after playing good old Trickbind. Not sure which two card combo I will use but it will be fun.

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  3 дні тому +1

      @@mave6602 I'm glad the video had a good impact!!! Happy Brewing, bro!!!

  • @crazydeadperson
    @crazydeadperson 2 дні тому +1

    I know it would never happen in a real game of magic but id love to see this combo stopped by morph

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  2 дні тому

      @crazydeadperson LOL 😂... well, if it becomes as popular as we hypothesize, then we may be in for a lot of people running [[Kadena's Silencer]] in the 99 ✅️
      The only tough thing is that a morph sits on board, so the Hashaton pilot could either: 1) Be patient for the player to use it up on another opponent then push, OR 2) Remove it themselves then push. 😕
      Granted, that doesn't mean that it still wouldn't be hilarious to see a morph "get someone" under split second 😂

  • @LanceTuckerAPD
    @LanceTuckerAPD 2 дні тому +1

    1:44:59 not fully finished but is Spymasters vault too narrow of a card for connive enabling at any time you choose? It is dependent on creatures dying, but that doesn’t seem too hard in this meta/ Esper colours. Can also be done on other peoples turns. Great vid too btw!

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  2 дні тому +1

      @LanceTuckerAPD Thanks, bro!!! And I personally would not run it bc: 1) It could come in tapped early game (if no Swamp on board), 2) Creatures dying isn't impossible but feels like a non necessary hurdle to jump just discard, & 3) I'd prefer my discard outlets be free activated abilties (but this me being nit picky lol)
      With that said, I encourage you to try it out if you feel strongly about its viability in the current cEDH Meta!
      I pray this is helpful! Be Great!!!

  • @afont13
    @afont13 4 дні тому +1

    Love this style of video this is a commander I'm interested in building but not necessarily for cEDH, this did give me some ideas for some alt win cons

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  4 дні тому

      Thanks, bro!!! And that's awesome! I pray that your brewing goes GREAT!!!

  • @knightshade884
    @knightshade884 День тому +1

    Really excellent video, subscribed

  • @scott_NakBets
    @scott_NakBets 3 дні тому +1

    Should call it Spliff Second

  • @27noetic
    @27noetic 6 днів тому +4

    Maybe not for your turbo version, but Nesting Dovehawk is fully cracked with this commander

  • @josephstillings1762
    @josephstillings1762 6 днів тому +5

    Unmorphing(or other special action to turn face up) a creature can interact with SplitSecond.

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  6 днів тому

      @josephstillings1762 THAT'S the one I missed! Thanks for the reminder!
      It's not commonly seen in cEDH, but yes, the morph creatures can interact w/ the Split Second Spell. However, not many can interact w/ Hashaton's triggered abilty (outside of spells like [[Kadena's Silencer]])

    • @HavocTheWendigo
      @HavocTheWendigo 4 дні тому +1

      Funnily enough I recently won a game by using morph to get around split second

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  4 дні тому +1

      That's awesome, man!!! You're already ahead of the META #SplitSecondMetaShift

  • @rodneyyapi5014
    @rodneyyapi5014 2 дні тому +1

    I believe commanders cast from command zone trigger the ghostly guy.

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  2 дні тому

      @rodneyyapi5014 Yep! It does. It just can cap off after that in some pods 😕

  • @Holden_Prio
    @Holden_Prio 5 днів тому +1

    Of note : extirpate forced shuffle gets better with subtlety (put it back on top then force them to shuffle)

  • @only1sn1not1taken
    @only1sn1not1taken 5 днів тому +1

    I'm not fully through the video but it's worth mentioning that Orcish Bowmaster is also an infinite mana outlet for Hullbreaker.

  • @ChristianEdwards-i9r
    @ChristianEdwards-i9r 3 дні тому +1

    I'm just planning on using him to play blue and run Lurrus as a companion.

    • @ChristianEdwards-i9r
      @ChristianEdwards-i9r 3 дні тому +1

      But I'm also ok with running Lurrus as a commander.

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  3 дні тому +1

      @ChristianEdwards-i9r Hey Christian,
      That's actually a pretty cool concept! It sucks a little to lose both Necro's, but getting a recursion piece in the Companion Zone is AWESOME!
      Happy Brewing & Be Great!!!

  • @crazykhespar8487
    @crazykhespar8487 3 дні тому +2

    9:17 From my limited understanding thusfar, it wont be metabreaking. Personally I think it will slide right into the top 10, but I also think Glarb is one of the 15 best commanders so maybe Im just trash.
    Also, you gained a sub :)

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  3 дні тому +1

      @crazykhespar8487 Thanks bro!!!! And keep watching 👀, it gets better!!!

    • @crazykhespar8487
      @crazykhespar8487 3 дні тому +1

      Phantasmagorian would be weird in this list. Free discard but its a ton of discard everytime.

    • @crazykhespar8487
      @crazykhespar8487 3 дні тому +1

      Love the Nezahal include, it does literally everything you want
      Valgavoth Terror Eater is terrifying (hehe), idk if its worth an include but its a big value generator. 2U for Valgavoth seems pretty.. good.
      I feel like Phantasmagorian could be your biggest odd include, it breaks Hashaton due to just being free discard from your hand AND graveyard.

    • @crazykhespar8487
      @crazykhespar8487 3 дні тому

      Incase you dont know, Phantasmagorian can use its second ability in hand :P its bazaar of handbag

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  3 дні тому

      @crazykhespar8487 Thanks, man!!! (on Nezahaul & Valgavoth)
      Also, I ended up taking [[Phantasmagorian]] to the TC Community, and after discussing, we came to the joint conclusion that:
      "It would become too awkward to loop it bc of limits in mana to make copies, a way to discard it itself, & cards in hand to bring it back to hand."
      However, if this is a card you'd like to test & run, I encourage you to still test it out! Happy Brewing!!!

  • @27noetic
    @27noetic 3 дні тому +1

    why are you running Valley Floodcaller if youre not also running either Banishing Knack/Retraction Helix?

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  3 дні тому

      @27noetic Hey Noetic,
      So VFC is used as a way to win at instant speed w/ Necropotence and Necrodominance, during the end step 💪🏾
      Check out the play testing hand at the end of the video for a LIVE example!!!
      Be Great!

  • @mocrispy8160
    @mocrispy8160 5 днів тому +2

    2nd moxfield link in the description goes to a scion list not hashaton

  • @27noetic
    @27noetic 6 днів тому +3

    Hapless Researcher>Tireless Tribe>Putrid Imp?

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  6 днів тому

      @27noetic I didn't know about these other cards, but they're dope 1 mana discard outlets 💪🏾🔥
      (I do wish that H.R. was just straight discard tho 🥲)

  • @TheNinjasperm
    @TheNinjasperm 5 днів тому +1

    thoughts on OG Jin gitaxious? magical christmas land turn of chrome mox land led turn one praetor

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  5 днів тому

      @@TheNinjasperm I actually decided to add it in!!! Check it out 1:32:06 😊

    • @TheNinjasperm
      @TheNinjasperm 5 днів тому +1

      @@thunderconductor heck yeah son didnt get that farm before the comment lol but love the content

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  4 дні тому

      @TheNinjasperm Thanks, brotha!!!

  • @parazightsporch2523
    @parazightsporch2523 4 дні тому +2

    Rhet-Tomb Mystic could replace a number of your discard outlets.

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  4 дні тому

      @parazightsporch2523 Hey Para,
      So I actually checked this one out on its initial spoiler debut! Here were my first thoughts that I shared in the TC Community Discord:
      "I love that it gives extra utility to each creature card in the 99 and that it's a Wizard (so it can be wizard cycled w/ [[Step Through]]).
      What I'm not in love w/ is the cost of 1U to discard, so if you add the 2U cost to bring the creature back (w/ Hashaton) it means that you're paying 3UU per creature copy. This isn't bad or unplayable, but much slower than I would like to be doing in a Turbo/Midrange brew."
      I still feel strongly about these points, but I'd love to hear your counter thoughts!
      Be Great!

    • @parazightsporch2523
      @parazightsporch2523 4 дні тому +1

      @@thunderconductor Yea, you're right. It can be spendy. It adds 2 mana but it draws you a card. I dunno. Having to play a narrow card like putrid imp, or these other cheap discard outlets that don't provide value sometimes seems underwhelming. Thanks for your thoughts.

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  4 дні тому +1

      @@parazightsporch2523 You're welcome, man!
      The commander is still SUPER new, so definitely test it out if you feel strongly about it's viability. Also, afterwards, I'd love to hear your experiences w/ it in the Brewers_Corner of the TC Community Discord #LinkInTheBio

    • @greenlentils_
      @greenlentils_ 3 дні тому

      @@parazightsporch2523putrid imp turns ranger-captain into a discard outlet tho, which has got to be worth it

  • @sebastiancasas6776
    @sebastiancasas6776 5 днів тому +1

    I would think that ghostly pilferer at the very least draws 1 or 2 cards from people casting their commanders

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  5 днів тому

      @@sebastiancasas6776 True 💯... I wish it could draw more consistently tho 🥲

    • @sebastiancasas6776
      @sebastiancasas6776 5 днів тому +1

      ​@thunderconductor that consistency is a hard thing to get past I agree. Also the valgavoth I think has the upper hand on sphinx simply because of the ward. Knowing that they will want to remove it but won't always be able to.

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  5 днів тому

      @@sebastiancasas6776 Very true on the Valgavoth vs Sphinx thought line 💯

  • @27noetic
    @27noetic 5 днів тому +1

    fyi Mox Amber and Mox Opal both work with the the Rona combo

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  5 днів тому

      @27noetic Oooo, Big Facts!... That's another tally for the Rona side lol #RonaVSKitsaDebate

  • @F4xP4s
    @F4xP4s 3 дні тому +1

    THC is the big dawg

  • @kennethmarkwith4678
    @kennethmarkwith4678 3 дні тому +1

    Isn't Necro and necro Dom a nonbo with your commander?

    • @TheLocoreaper
      @TheLocoreaper 3 дні тому +1

      Looked at that as well... I mean, what?

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  3 дні тому +1

      @kennethmarkwith4678 Hey Kenneth, so it looks that way on a first look, but Hashaton's ability specifically says:
      "Whenever you *DISCARD* a creature card, you may pay 2U. If you do, create a tapped token that's a copy of that card, except it's a 4/4 black Zombie."
      This means that Hashaton doesn't care about where it goes after it's Discarded, only that it was Discarded! Meaning that discarding to Graveyard, Exile, or even to the top of the library ([[Library of Leng]]) doesn't hurt the abilty! 😁
      Check out me playing the playtest hand at the end of the video for a live example!
      Be Great!

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  3 дні тому

      @@TheLocoreaper Hey Reap, check out my response to Kenneth! ☝🏾✅️

    • @TheLocoreaper
      @TheLocoreaper 3 дні тому +1

      @ Well, I did get that part. The question is: Are there not times you might care about permanently losing access to the creatures you discard and exile with Necro?

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  3 дні тому

      @TheLocoreaper Hey bro,
      So it's really case by case & game by game, but I think that as long as you don't discard [[Thassa's Oracle]], [[Laboratory Maniac]], AND [[Praetor's Grasp]] (i.e. your main finisher's), you should be fine and still have an "out" to win the game!
      I will add that in the gameplay (dropping this upcoming Monday 🗓), it shows me using Necropotence as a mid-game value engine, w/ this Hashaton list, instead of a TURBO win enabler, and it shows the play patterns/thought lines I used when choosing what to discard to exile ✅️

  • @qsmithy4772
    @qsmithy4772 4 дні тому +1

    I thought the first 2 seconds were in another language

  • @justinmaynard8305
    @justinmaynard8305 5 днів тому +1

    You keep saying summoning sick, but you can reanimate these end of payers turn before you with your instant speed discard outlets and then use Rona or other similar ones on your turn so makes it harder for people to interact.

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  5 днів тому

      @justinmaynard8305 Hey Justin, so the reason I'm using the term "summoning sickness" so often is bc even in the case that I'm able to cheat it out on end step, I'm still needing to wait a whole turn rotation to be able to use it. And there are some games that that will just be too slow of a setup. However, notibly, that's why I bring up that the use of cards like [[Agatha's Soul Cauldron]], [[Hazelbrew Masters]], and [[Necrotic Ooze]] @ 1:44:14 as ways to FULLY bypass the summoning sickness downside of the creature 💪🏾
      I'll still add tho, that the interaction you bring up is still VERY awesome for both cheating out creatures at the last minute and preventing them from having to sit on board under duress for a FULL turn cycle! And it's definitely another awesome feature that the commander provides for the list that I neglected to bring up and fully dissect during the stream, so Thanks for bringing this to light 🙌🏾

  • @adriannathaniel3894
    @adriannathaniel3894 6 днів тому +1

    Are you from Tennessee?

  • @brandyourfan9244
    @brandyourfan9244 5 днів тому +1

    Phyrexian Altar is both a mana ability and an activated ability.
    Mana abilities don't use the stack, but I'm fairly certain you still couldn't activate the Altar under Split Second

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  5 днів тому +3

      Hey Brady, so you're 100% correct on [[Phyrexian Altar]] being a mana ability and an activated ability. Also, you're 100% correct that mana abilities don't use the stack.
      With this 100% correct known information, we are now able to look at what Split Second says:
      Split second *(As long as this spell is on the stack, players can’t cast spells or activate abilities that aren’t mana abilities.)*
      And see that, yes, you can activate mana abilities (including [[Phyrexian Altar]]'s) while the S.S. ability is active.
      I pray that this was helpful, but if not, please check the primer of my Hashaton list for supporting rulings. Be great!

  • @houseofhank3896
    @houseofhank3896 3 дні тому +1

    Luv u vro

  • @yesimchar
    @yesimchar 4 дні тому +1

    i dont really understand the nezahal include. it can draw a lot if cards but you cant cheat it into play, then use the discard effect and have it come back. its sad but i think its a trap big body. its only a 3 mana mystic ramora effect on a body. not awful but theres better options imo

    • @thunderconductor
      @thunderconductor  4 дні тому +2

      @yesimchar Hey bro,
      Thanks for sharing your opinion!
      I respectfully disagree. I believe that its ability to draw a card over EVERY noncreature cast from my opponent's is AWESOME for just 3 mana 😁 #3ManaMysric. And when you add in the fact that it has a multi-Discard effect that allows us to discard BOTH of our Thassa's & Leveler simultaneously, it means that were able to set up an explosive early to mid game card advantage engine into a mid to late game instant speed win line that can only be stopped w/ stifle effects 💪🏾🏆
      Notibly, I do hear you on your statement that it not being able to protect itself w/ the Discard ability is substantial. However, I think that by simply including a reanimation effect, you'll be able to get back the original body in its FULL glory w/ little to no cost to you 😊
      Lastly, if Nezahaul doesn't fit your playstyle, please move in a different direction! I personally took out C. Sphinx even though literally EVERY other pilot is running it bc of my play style/brewing style doesn't align w/, so don't worry about following my list to the "T" (No pun intended 😂)
      I pray your brewing goes great. Be Great!!!