That's what I was trying to articulate in my own comment. The problem isn't with Seele, but instead the game itself. There's been massive hp and/or defense inflation with enemies and all it would take for Seele to perform like normal is to inflate her stats similarly. The game's balance is just bad.
its just the "first limited character" syndrome. venti, the first limited 5 star in genshin, used to be crazy op but nowadays there's characters that do his job but better. same thing will happen to ellen joe when zzz progresses
@@lillyie Venti is more of a one trick pony. he is the best at what he does, the problem is the situation is so rare these days. and the other anemo units despite having the worse grouping the others provide more sh*t than just grouping.
And then there is boothill who does damage as Physical Break damage meaning he scales with more Toughness and his break Bleed means he will love the HP imflation. @@blanktrigger8863
@@Darkclowd Yeah, I agree that a new LC would be the most likely thing to happen, similar to new weapons and stigmas in HI3rd. We in a sense have it with Yunli LC that works great for Clara.
@@iliketodraw5410wdym lol .. she is 1.0 characters so how could they had known that.. they also don't buff characters directly.. so hopefully when she is rerunning some support dedicated for her make her great again
@@HeyItsme-c8x Back in beta and 1.0 there was already data and code for characters up to 1.4 with part of their kits. They perfectly knew and made her shit on purpose (even though she was good at the beginning for obvious reasons).
@@BailuGaming Yes it would? Not by much, but it would definitely help. Extra turn and follow-up are entirely different things. If her resurgence counted as follow-up, she would be pretty damn good in dual carry comps, and would benefit better from a lot more buffs and debuffs.
@@yeetirosina ohhh i see. Well ig in my defense is that if that is the case, seele's ult have to bypass element in order to break efficiently. I think a better way to buff seele is to lower ultimate's energy requirement and make it so that after using ult you gain resurgence (give extra turn) and obv buff the multipliers of said ultimate. But ig the resurgence proc when breaking enemies could be very much appreciated
I think the biggest problem with seele is that resurgence is just objectively worse then a follow up attack for someone like seele unless she has a way to activate it without killing enemies due to.. there being a fuck ton of situations where she can’t even activate resurgence
It's not just Seele who needs a rework, but also somewhat her niche, either in SPD or Mono Quantum (which has been abandoned for a while, pretty sure you covered that before lol) One way to fix Mono Quantum in my mind is adding some sort of Quantum Sustain Nihility like Welt (who slows enemies) and applies a lot of ATK reduction to prevent enemies from hitting you as much as possible Because the character is Nihility, there's a lot more to play around with it's abilities like adding more debuffs, or spreading weakness implants, (but it's got to be implants, not just weaknesses) which helps SW single target issue And it may be miniscule but just some Vulnerability or DEF reduction added (not a lot cuz it's alr sustain oriented) would make this character amazing (in Break teams somewhat, in sustains, and of course in Mono Quantum)
Mono quantum is just not there anymore, and I think the culprit is honestly sparkle and fu xuan falling off drastically if anything. Seele's best team is robin sunday huohuo, easily. So is qingque's most likely, and even xueyi would prefer that or something with ruan mei.
@@zannax351 hanabi is still one of the best supports in the game and fu xaun is the second best shielder so it's the fact we only have 3 quantam dps characters
@@Albedomikansyes and all three have way better teams than mono quantum. QQ, Jade, and Seele prefer Robin Sunday bcs they're just better damage even without weakness implant. To fix mono quantum, we need to actually make it worth it to run it, which is basically just fixing Silverwolf. Silverwolf has worse uptime than Pela, has worse def shred than Pela w/ Pearls (A non E1 SW running anything other than Tutorial will get ult like every 4 turns, and only on ST), and then RNG implant, which forces you to not run OP supports like Robin Sunday for consistency. Fixing her and fully speccing her into mono quantum ain't even bad bcs she's virtually outclassed by all other limited supports atm. She just creates a new archetype while also being significantly less versatile than her competitors, which is how HSR should design new supports going forward
@@Wawawawawa750 yep, this is exactly what I wrote in my Nihility Sustain idea too, to be able to spread the debuffs that SW applies to AoE is strong, but this Nihility user MUST have another Nihility user to duplicate it, which already severely limits the options of your team, so if it's powerful, then it should rightfully be powerful
to put fei xiao's 470 words kit into perspective, longest yugioh card (you know, the card game where people are complaining about long texts) clocks in at 183 words spread over 2 textboxes. Her kit is roughly 2.5x the longest ygo card text. So if you write her kit into ygo card, you need 5 textboxes (assuming texts are equally distributed between textboxes). There are 5 parts to her kit (normal atk, skill, ultimate, technique, passive). So once you read through her kit, it is equivalent of reading 5 ygo card effects (regular card only have 1 textbox). It is amazing how hsr already reached this level of word inflation before it's second year. By fifth anniversary, it would probably faster to read a deck of yugioh cards than reading a character's kit.
a wierd way to put it. HSR like to have unique keywords on new character to make the debuff stacks, then explained it. lots of text but they have the brief summary toggle if got lost on sea of words, illusion of the past
@@Headstockch Not a weird way at all. Feixiao mechanics are too unique down to her energy unlike others who just a variation of X does Y with fancy words
Do you even know how broken that is? Yeah lets just give the fastest character in the game an ability that can kill any enemy no matter the health bar in 4 hits max. 😂
I will admit. Seele needs high end relics to function but that’s the whole premise. If you don’t have those good relics then she’s definitely dead. Unlike other characters seele needs to have those relics since if she can’t kill basic mobs then her whole kit is dead. She’s one of those characters you have to invest in to be good. You might say “won’t this apply to every character?” The answer to that is no because of what I said before. You need enough to kill those minions
I gave up haha, I gave her sign to march 7th hunt, really makes my life easier with auto playstyle. Seele relic is still on herself tho, even if my stat is beast power creep is beast aswell
better than bladie, for sure jingliu and DHIL got a new best in slot thanks to sunday but bladie... he would've been found dead in a ditch but he cannot die so
@@lillyie it's funny you say that when blade is performing similar if not better than jingliu, jing yuan, and seele without having a best in slot support (hp support) edit: also i wouldn't count sunday as a best in slot for dhil, good luck with trying to manage your skill points
@@seaberrysvideodump9602I feel the exact opposite as a longtime seele player honestly, shes amazing in pf, solid in moc, but is either really good or borderline useless in apocalyptic shadow
@@lillyieIt's worth noting that seele also benefits just as much from sunday, I think she's still ahead of the destructions and honestly arguably dr ratio too depending on how much you weigh pure fiction.
I'll still 0 cycle with her because I love her, but yeah she's definitely not the path of least resistance in today's meta. However relative to being the very first limited, I think she aged a lot better than some of the other 1.x dps like the destruction characters and dot (until we get a dedicated dot buffer) I'll say that I have E0S0 seele and E0S2 Jingliu and I still get better results with my seele than my jingliu. I also think sunday will be a massive buff for her, and with that and the future 2.7 moc lineup with the swarm, she's honestly very capable of 0 cycling moc 12 soon with no limited eidolons, which I'll definitely push for.
@@NothingMeansNothingButNothing she really stands out in bosses that summons minions like the swarm bug and you definitely need skill for her to be good. If you compare her playstyle to the big 3 (Acheron, Firefly, Feixiao) then she definitely takes way more skill. It’s definitely not a coincidence that she can still somewhat keep up, unlike some destruction units (blade and jingliu). You just need skill for her to be good
Why don't they just fix Seele's Talent also count as Follows up attack instead of *Extra turn* Or more effectively, just Create another Meta about *Extra Turn* or any character that have multiple action in 1 turn (Physical Mc, Sushang) instead of just ABANDONED them insanely
@ Literally Majority of the characters are four stars It only has 4 five stars 💀✋ While The Zianfuo Luofo has Fucking im pretty sure 12 if im counting right like justice for Belabog 😭
never cook again, every action is anither action thats insanely strong that doubles her damage and she can use sunday and bronya -1 spd to maximize that to a insane degree and just powercreep every dps
you don't even need to change her kit, just increase her multipliers. Just compare her ult multiplier and feixiao's ( Seele 425% vs Fexiao 700% +Bonus). Your idea is great though. thanks for the video
They could make a harmony support that buffs seele without being explicit with it like instead of an instant advance when seele (or other dps) takes a turn they get immediately turn advanced after their turn while buffing dmg with consecutive actions and less enemies targeted in the attack increases buffs and the support has a point system ult that charges off of turns taken by characters (not follow up atks or summons maybe ults tho) so seele would be the best at charging the ult getting up to 5 or 6 turns (based on if resurgence happens before turn advance or not) per cast of the support’s skill and the support’s ult could be like robin/ruan mei skill where it counts down off of the supports turn
I think I really like that (and that's definitely not because Sushang is one of my favourite characters and she also happens to play in a way that would be very beneffited by that).
waiting for the debunk (spoiler, we dont need one because we know seele is amongst the best dps's even when the universe is against her. seele is bad for those ppl because they invested horizontally instead of upgrading their supports and then seele underperforms on their badly farmed relics+lacking supports, i mean, seele vids are a proof ot that, also there's ken ruroruni if someone wanna use the shitty argument of "she plays on a priver server bwaaaaah :'(" )
i feel like the way to make 1.x units more viable is by adding in emanators like the herta and acheron who requires specific characters from the same path as them.
@@blanktrigger8863Hence why a support character for Quantum would make sense and would be the easiest solution. And I still use Seele despite how outdated she is. Besides, character reworks with Hoyo can be hit or miss. (Zhongli and Yae come to mind)
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!! This is actually such a good concept to buff Seele! I've always thought she should have more emphasis on Speed in her base kit and not just her LC.
Uhhh no; she doesn't need any rework, she's fine as is. It's just the gamemode heavily goes against her, put a crit-based buffs or atk% buffs on the gamemodes and she would bounce back with premium teams. Also, SHARED HP. She's basically Welt in endgames right now; great usability but everything goes against their kit.
I actually like this concept. I can already imagine having the same fun I had when I first played seele. Her ability to deal damage im the same turn. With more access to more damage (more stacks/buffs last an additional turn/stacks transfer/etc) in this concept, we could finally see our beloved seele become the turn queen again
Her Eidolons should also change. E1 Should give her, her old 80% DMG resurgence buff for every talent proc(cuz why not it's better than her current one anyway) E2 Can stay the same but her skill and basic can also generate extra stacks for her ult (Kinda like Acheron E2) or maybe change it to like Acheron E2/ Feixiao E1 Where Seele would deal 1.5x more DMG on bosses/Elites and 1.2x more DMG to regular mobs when there's more than 1 enemy on field. E4 Give her ult 20% deff ignore or something. E6 Maybe something like increase ult CRIT DMG by 50% or something and her skill and basic is now considered Ult DMG or His skill SPD buff can stack 2 times while also giving an additional 40% Atk buff (That could also stack) At max SPD stack she would also gain 20% Quantum RES PEN. Her LC can stay the same since it's already very good for most hunt units
They could have make a the story interlude tailor for each outdated character and buffing them as the same times. With fresh new content will attract both lore reader and gamers, i guarantee i will sell like hot cake
Heres an idea of mine Replace ascension 2 trait to "skill deals an aditional damage based on x% of the target's current HP and ultimate deals an additional damage based on y% of the target's lost HP, if target current HP is less than 50% of their max HP then Seele will deal true damage instead where the defense and element resistance of the target is rendered irelevent. If target has element resistance or defense debuff while HP is lower than 50% then target takes z% more damage per debuff, stacks up to 5 times" (this is here so that silver wolf, Pela and Jiaoqiu can help seele deal even more damage when she deals true damage) This way making seele the driving force of your team while also making your sustain unit as important as your Seele cause now Seele can be targeted more often than the current ascension 2 trait Edit : to make it so that people won't scream "das OP kit REEEEEEE" here's some few changes, Seele will have the lowest base HP, HP growth and DEF growth of all The Hunt characters while also being the fastest character out of all the HSR roster making her glass cannon role...well..glass cannoney. Example of a fully kitted Seele basic stats with my idea would be HP : 2613(all sub stats are crit prio so expect some very low HP and DEF sub stats) ATK : 3423(quantum planar ORB, 3978+ if ATK planar ORB) DEF : 980 (again, has the lowest DEF growth per level) SPD : 124 (with ATK boots, 143+ with SPD boots) Edit 2: resurgence affects all of Seele's attacks so the buffs provided by ascension trait 2 is gonna get even more nasty.
I always thought a cool way to make Seele viable without overbuffing other units would be a set like this: 2pc: +10% basic and skill DMG 4pc: When the unit wearing this set deals single target damage with their basic or skill, deal 100% (or potentially 200%) additional DMG to non-elite/boss enemies. For every non-elite/boss enemy defeated, increase all single target DMG dealt to elites and bosses by ?%, stacking until end of combat. I like this approach because it doesn't involve tweaking her kit directly (which is very unlikely from Hoyo) while also enabling Seele for Pure Fiction with very interesting support characters like Hunt March 7th, Feixiao or new hunt/erudition dual DPS Hoyo might add in the future.
If you activate Seele's ult while she is getting a last hit to activate resurgence then the damage buff of the trait will benefit the ult aswell. It has to be fast enough though, otherwise the bonus action will take effect first and remove the buff afterwards. Neat little trick
I don't play HI3, but someone mentioned one of the four remaining silhouettes in the new area's little preview we got actually looked like one of Seele's forms..(?). Again I don't actually play but I've seen the short haired version that they're talking about. I wonder if we will end up getting another Seele or something in the end
Seele isn’t even niche. She’s good in every gamemode. Moc, pure fiction, apocalyptic shadow? She can destroy all 3 game modes. Meanwhile jade is only good in pure fiction
This is before watching the vid so if it's mentioned sorry, but personally I think Seele just needs higher damage multipliers and many some mono quantum support.
I knew this was horrible but I gave it a chance and it’s fucking shit. I just wasted 20 minutes testing this out in every possible way and it’s so much worse than just building her with crit
I really dig your concept, and I think the idea behind Butterfly Flurry is a great one! Just to throw some feedback I do have to admit there are some things I dislike about the kit. The main two things are the Ult having a bonus 50% crit rate by default and the weakness ignore. I also generally dislike the second ascension trace, albeit I do understand it’s inclusion. I feel like for the Ult you could’ve borrowed a bit from Argenti. Maybe have it so Seele gains 4% Crit Rate and 8% Crit DMG for each stack of Butterfly Flurry on a target enemy. So at max stacks she’d have 40% bonus crit rate. This has it achieve the same effect you were going for while tying in the Butterfly Flurry stacks into the rest of the kit. Although when it comes to the Weakness ignore I got no real points against it or suggestions to perhaps make it better. I just don’t like that kind of mechanic on a non-break DPS. Instead I’d probably try to add back in the trace that has her action advance on the basic attack. On top of the original effect I’d probably also add that it inflicts 2 stacks of Butterfly Flurry, so it becomes her main set-up tool. It wouldn’t do much damage, but it’d help her stack it faster. These are just some off the top of my head ideas/feedback. I’m always a big fan of how you get me thinking about this stuff
Honestly instead of making her based on stacks for Nuke Ultimate you could make it so that its speed scaling, every 10 spd above x spd threshold gives you x% crit rate and x%crit dmg. She is supposed to have an all rounder kit, her skill and ultimate all have to carry their own weight, switching it to that is just a bad copy of acherons. I just think it would be way cooler to not have the hyper nuke archetype and the hyperspeed archetype, a character that hits so many damn times that the enemy has to die.
@MeghGireesh oh that’s a good point! Now that I think about it her LC also scales with Speed to increase her damage. I got a bit caught up with the initial concept Red proposed. There is still the potential issue of her running out of Buffs quickly due to that speed, but at the same time there’s ways around that. Characters like Ruan Mei and Robin have buffs based on their turn rather than their ally’s
I wonder if they'll make a character that functions like Sunday's E6, with JUST the OverCrit mechanic and maybe something else like a small dmg boost. I think a unit just like that will be really cool
If we’re talking about poorly aged 5 stars you have to leave out Seele since she’s definitely still up there. You probably want to talk about jingliu or blade instead since those guys straight up just died
With Sunday and Tribbie that's not true. And good luck with SP management since Blade can barely do it with his 0 SP per turn, let alone Seele who eats SP like candy
21 годину тому
I would say bailu. She is worthless, 4 stars are far better than her.
4 star characters aren't better than Bailu. Bailu heals WAY more, her only weakness being CC. I still use her as one of my supports and she still does her job. Not every enemy needs a cleanser.
18 годин тому
@@jamess359 healing is worthless if you cant protect towards debuff. Not every enemie needs, but the really hard ones do. Besides, characters like linx also heal a lot, while also preventing debuff. Only four stars she is better is natasha
I was expecting the solution to the "wasted energy" problem to just be to give her a bit of energy every time a stack is produced, like how misha does it Also I think it's fine to not give this mechanic to seele but I do like how this alternate energy could work : ult can be used only when the total stacks applied to ennemies reaches 10 (or whatever it may be) but it only consumes however many stacks are on the terget ennemy. Like if an elite ennemy has 6 stacks, some normal ennemy has 2 stacks and a other has 1, you have 9 "energy", apply another stack to the elite and then use your ult on it, but because it only had 7 stacks, you still have 3 left afterwards.
They abandoned the starter region in Genshin too (latest 5 star from there released 2 years ago, latest 4 star more than a year, not a single map expansion ever while every other region got at least one huge area, etc etc) I understand that nostalgia is comforting but I think a live service game with a literal vagabond-type protagonist group will never prioritize spotlighting a starter location
@ussinussinongawd516 Every other location has had at least two visits with a boss, as well as at least 2 new 5-stars from that area. Even Herta space station got the bug boss, Ruan Mei, and Ratio.
i really like the design of the kit, how she keeps her fast playstyle that makes her act a lot and the extra turn mechanic, while minimizing her flaws, and carving out avery interesting niche for herself. I'm especially fan of her 3rd major trace which give a huge payoff for optimally stacking Butterfly Flurry, leaving a lot of room for skill expressione. i'll now be kinda sad every time i look at my Seele because i'll remember this video and know that she has a vast untapped potential.
I feel like E2 Firefly is a good take on this. She gets a ton of speed in her kit, gets Break Efficiency in her kit and at E2 she gets an extra turn on kill or BREAK. Also, the reliance on her Ult is cared for within her own kit.
8:32 I remember my Blade missing crit on ult TWICE IN A ROW with 99,8% cr, so you definitely underestimating "close to 0" chances as long as they are not actually 0 LMAO
Do Silver Wolf next, she basically have nothing left since we dont have to inmplant weakness since now can break regardless of wekaness type and her ult def shred is overshadowed by pela's aoe def shred
I feel Ike if she was released nowadays she would gains turns when enemy is weakness broken as well. She would have higher dmg multiplier. I have Seele E1R0 because I got two in one ten draw. But now I don’t use her at all unfortunately.
The weird thing about old kits from all I can tell nowadays is that they didn’t entirely know what they were going for but for Seele I really am not sure what they were going for, a DPS that gains an extra turn from killing Adds is basically the ultimate farmer but will eventually stop landing the chain kills for the funny damage as the battle goes on, the enemy choices didn’t help too much until everyone’s most favorite bug got added (True Sting). And then Ruan Mid got released and uncovered that Seele has a Kill Stealing weakness (her passive cannot trigger if she doesn’t land the final blow on the enemy, Ruan Mid deals her own additional damage to enemies that get weakness broken) and then it made me even more confused though I chalk that up to old kit since Ratio, Feixiao and basically every major FUA character can actually retarget between waves if their main target gets killed, also someone explain to me why Firefly’s E2 is just Seele’s passive but better. I think your idea on making her a character that builds up damage on the enemy by doing continuous strikes on them is a good idea mostly but her basic attack would be mostly useless (that action advance would be wild if you can do that though, +70%?) also I think she should take a small page out of Acheron’s book and spread out her “Butterfly Flurry” stacks based off around like Half of the stacks the enemy has currently so it gradually becomes easier to put it all on the boss By the way your final time stamp doesn’t work, you forgot to put a space between the :10:23
Only way i see seele being back to meta is to introduce a harmony that gives character skillpoints if seele can kill anyone, thus letting her run loose on purefiction where hp isnt that mass for her ult to eliminate
Pretty much the only way I see Seele being good again is if a support gets released that buffs based on the targets speed so you can actually use the fact that Seele seems to always overclock on speed
Honestly other than Nightshade her base kit does not need a re-work, she is 1.0 dps so she obviously needs to be weaker than the next few characters, to make her basically like speed-based Acheron does take away from her history in the game. what I think she deserves is better Eidolons, she has horrible Eidolons compared to other limited 5 stars, and even Clara has a net higher amount of good Eidolons. Her first eidolon is not great because it scales on damage dealt for crit rate and there isn't enough crit rate to justify another eidolon. Her e2 which is her only good eidolon is just a speed increase, which can be handy sometimes but still is not all that worth it. Her e4 is worse just because of the core issue of resurgence not being able to harness it due to HP inflation and her e6 is just a stupid quantum dot and the worst part is if she kills the enemy with said quantum dot it won't even activate resurgence. E1 could have 25% crit rate or make it so that the enemy has to have been hit by Seeles skill for the crit rate buff because of how massive 20% is for bosses. E2 can be as is but also add an extra crit dmg or Dmg% boost with the second skill usage, E4 could be revamped and made so that after a set amount of turns Seele automatically activates resurgence just like the hunt blessing in SU, it makes her way more fun to play and her fucking e6 can change so that the quantum dot also activates resurgence if it kills an enemy, but a better idea might be to just to make it so that when she breaks an enemy she activates resurgence. She is built around the hunt blessings in SU so just take inspiration from it, its not that bad.
They could release a character that has a similar mechanic to the memory zone meme, where they inflict some kind of a debuff on enemies, and the enemy is declared "defeated" without having their HP bar reduced to 0 the next time they take damages.
Seele is very versatile and flexible compares to the meta dps right now. Acheron is locked behind nihility. Feixiao is locked behind fart team and firefly is literally stuck with Ruan mei and hmc. Seele on the other hand can be paired with any hyper carry supports. Sunday, tingyun, sparkles, bronya, robin, Yukong, and the list goes on.
Most Poorly aged 5 star is actually a crazy statement when you think about it The only Really Big concern is that shes hard to play but if you jnow how to play her correctly Then shes way better than youd expect
I think the requirement of defeating an enemy is a bit much with the HP Inflation of today, if Resurgence activated on inflicting weaknesses break, maybe she'll be more consistent, but that might cuase Super Break Seele
I love the idea of a buff when you have your uiltimate since that would actually give the hunt LC subscribe for more! a purpose and not just make it a fairly useless LC just collecting dust in our inventories
Seele isn't even good vs enemy waves with adds! My Seele is very well built and she can't oneshot a basic enemy like an Imaginary Weaver even with a weakness break, while buffed by Sparkle's Skill. HP inflation has completely killed her Resurgence Talent. The kicker is that Resurgence isn't even that good of a talent anymore; Even if Seele could get it off of adds, mathematically her self buffs aren't even potent anymore. Feixiao's self buffing is better, Acheron's debuffs might as well be a self buff, Firefly is self explanatory and even Jingliu who has fallen off a lot buffs herself more than Seele and has better uptime. Resurgence riding off of an extra turn in the end only means it is roughly equivalent to a +100% damage buff, with some extra energy gain on top.
I think in content where resurgence procs are easier she snowballs out of control a lot harder than you give her credit for. The kicker is her basic attack action advance stacked with her skill speed buff that lets her loop far more actions in a given amount of action value than almost any other dps in the game. Robin helps tremendously with chipping mobs into kill range for seele because now every basic attack from tingyun or gallagher or pela or whoever does 20k damage. Interspersing basic attacks in between her turns with good use of an action advance harmony (sparkle rn, sunday when he releases) and dance dance dance is the reason seele is still considered on par with acheron and feixiao for the extremely tiny minority of the playerbase that does minimum cost 0 cycling. Though even for the layperson, robin does so much to make her more usable in standard endgame content, and is definitely the biggest limit pusher for seele currently
I always thought the hp pool spike is there to incentivize people to make use of MoC buff, but then again why make the buff broken only to inflate enemy HP this much?
Just you watch. Propagation is going to become a playable path, and the new support will create scapegoat enemies that will give targets for Seele to trigger resurgence on while massively buffing her dmg.
@Seele-o6j I agree that Firefly will probably fall off after 3.0 but given the HP inflation trend rn Seele is definitely not going to stay strong since her resurgence becomes useless in MOC
@@Cat-pv6yx even if that’s the case she’s still better than 90% of dps. She doesn’t need a rework as she’s already great. If moc hp inflates then not only will seele fall off a little but the rest of the dps (dhil, jingliu, blade) and even dot teams will fall of along with it. I have to admit firefly is strong but seele isn’t weak
Giving crit rate bonuses gives me jingliu ptsd Crit rate is the worst bonus you can get from a trace/talent because it's not multiplicative, Feixiao proves this. Fei needs to be as close as you can get to 100% CR, and YES it's possible, and also YES it needs lots of investment. But by not giving CR bonus, the talent/trace can give other bonus that improve damage exponentially i.e. damage boost, def shred, res pen, crit damage, extra turn, extra energy, atk bonus. There are many other bonuses that are objectively better than giving crit rate for free
Really would enjoy if hoyo see this video, but the sad truth is that they will most likely not do this kind of thing, I am a Seele main and really wanted to see she have a spotlight again
So like, are we just gonna ignore Fu Xuan's Crit. Rate buff for mono-Quantum teams. I feel like especially with all the add-ons a 30% guaranteed Crit. Rate% on the Ultimate would be fine.
People love to exaggerate the “””power creep””” in Star rail… No, your 1.0 characters not 0 cycling the final floor of the current MoC is not power creep, and no bosses having more HP isn’t power creep, why do so many hoyo players want to NOT play the game? Oh you can’t delete the boss health bar in one attack? Game must be bad. Remember the Adventurine boss that everyone complained about because it had actual mechanics so people couldn’t melt him instantly? Yeah… Also, Seele’s kit was just bad from the start unfortunately, but she was literally the first limited 5* so we didn’t really know yet.
@@RenkittyRenzo Seele part. The whole vid was kinda dumb and the gameplay nearly made me kill myself. At least learn to use Seele before riding off other peoples opinion 🤦♂️. No hate to you tho just the creator
If you look at this more objectively, Seela aged better than Blade, dhil, jingliu, kafka, sparkle, black swan, argenti, fu xuan ,Jing yuan, luocha, silver wolf. Have i forgotten someone? I think ppl who think seela suck now miss the point on how to use her. Seela have low multiplyer, but at the same time the semplicity of her kit let her get incredible sinergy with any new support. She work well or even great with ruan mei, sparkle, robin and she will work great with sunday to. The problem is, in order to overcome her multiplyer problem, you need to go sustainless. Sustainless seela can, and have 0 cycle at e0s0 basically all moc untill now. But sustainless is risky. And because of that ppl dont play her. Trust me, sustainless with pela robin and tingyung my seela deals 220k per skill and 400/450k per ult. Thats not bad damage. And even today those number are more then enought for the adds and so on. She scale extrimly with support.
as a Seele simp from Hi3, I was a tad disappointed to realize the reality of Seele being the first 5 star... I tried to deny it but I couldn't make her good enough to go through the game.
![[2.6] The Godslayer Protocol Isn't What You're Expecting... Probably - A Honkai Star Rail Theory](/img/n.gif)
The fact that Seele went from broken top tier to "fundamentally flawed design" really tells the state of powercreep in Star Rail
That's what I was trying to articulate in my own comment. The problem isn't with Seele, but instead the game itself. There's been massive hp and/or defense inflation with enemies and all it would take for Seele to perform like normal is to inflate her stats similarly. The game's balance is just bad.
its just the "first limited character" syndrome.
venti, the first limited 5 star in genshin, used to be crazy op but nowadays there's characters that do his job but better.
same thing will happen to ellen joe when zzz progresses
@@lillyie Venti is more of a one trick pony. he is the best at what he does, the problem is the situation is so rare these days. and the other anemo units despite having the worse grouping the others provide more sh*t than just grouping.
@@lillyie In Ventis case, Hoyo made sure that he wont be able to perform optymally.
And then there is boothill who does damage as Physical Break damage meaning he scales with more Toughness and his break Bleed means he will love the HP imflation. @@blanktrigger8863
i wont be surprised if hoyo releases a character with seele's talent but it actually resets everytime you get a kill
That'd be really fun. If this was like hi3, she herself might've even gotten a new LC that allowed for that.
@@Darkclowd Yeah, I agree that a new LC would be the most likely thing to happen, similar to new weapons and stigmas in HI3rd. We in a sense have it with Yunli LC that works great for Clara.
@@Darkclowdtweak the character's numbers a little 🚫 "please make me spend again" ✅️
@@tdof7217think it's just cuz I don't think hsr changes characters numbers after they're released
Why make one cool character when you can make two, double the money
i feel like just making resurgence count as a follow up atatck would instantly make her so much better
I agree, for a while I had thought her talent count as a follow - up attack, but I guess the developers just hated her :(
@@iliketodraw5410wdym lol .. she is 1.0 characters so how could they had known that.. they also don't buff characters directly.. so hopefully when she is rerunning some support dedicated for her make her great again
@@HeyItsme-c8x Back in beta and 1.0 there was already data and code for characters up to 1.4 with part of their kits. They perfectly knew and made her shit on purpose (even though she was good at the beginning for obvious reasons).
It would change nothing 💀💀💀
@@BailuGaming Yes it would? Not by much, but it would definitely help. Extra turn and follow-up are entirely different things.
If her resurgence counted as follow-up, she would be pretty damn good in dual carry comps, and would benefit better from a lot more buffs and debuffs.
If you want to buff seele, just make her trigger resurgence when she breaks an enemy. And you increase her multipliers by ~30% and that's it.
How to proc resurgence on breaking bruv, you need to kill to proc resurgence
@@clive...I think they’re talking about the improvements the developers should make, if they were to tweak her kit.
@@yeetirosina ohhh i see. Well ig in my defense is that if that is the case, seele's ult have to bypass element in order to break efficiently. I think a better way to buff seele is to lower ultimate's energy requirement and make it so that after using ult you gain resurgence (give extra turn) and obv buff the multipliers of said ultimate. But ig the resurgence proc when breaking enemies could be very much appreciated
@@clive... and that's why silverwolf exist.
@@aliounethiaw1443but then silver wolf will break the small enemies toughness herself and it will barely buff seele
I think the biggest problem with seele is that resurgence is just objectively worse then a follow up attack for someone like seele unless she has a way to activate it without killing enemies due to.. there being a fuck ton of situations where she can’t even activate resurgence
Silver Wolf wondering how she avoided being the subject of this video: 👁👄👁
Nah, she's still good. She's a debuffer which people can use with Acheron, unlike Seele
She was already in a previous video lol
@@sakuseihuoshenif sw ult was just blast then sw would’ve been way more viable
@@sakuseihuoshennah she worse than pela right now, everyone can ignore weakness this days
@@Aha-is-elationSure if there is enough vertical investment, but for a lot of players enemy weaknesses and resists will still matter a lot.
I live for these kit videos
I'm glad you like them! :D
@@RedFlaimyour vids are the best
@@RedFlaimsame here, please keep them up!!
Step 1: 100% Crit rate
Step 2: Hopefully she CRITS
AH DANG IT
I love the joke that she doesn't crit no matter how high your crit rate is 🤣
It's not just Seele who needs a rework, but also somewhat her niche, either in SPD or Mono Quantum (which has been abandoned for a while, pretty sure you covered that before lol)
One way to fix Mono Quantum in my mind is adding some sort of Quantum Sustain Nihility like Welt (who slows enemies) and applies a lot of ATK reduction to prevent enemies from hitting you as much as possible
Because the character is Nihility, there's a lot more to play around with it's abilities like adding more debuffs, or spreading weakness implants, (but it's got to be implants, not just weaknesses) which helps SW single target issue
And it may be miniscule but just some Vulnerability or DEF reduction added (not a lot cuz it's alr sustain oriented) would make this character amazing (in Break teams somewhat, in sustains, and of course in Mono Quantum)
Its hard to change mono quantam as we already have 3 members who have to be in the team and seele is the only one that is replaceable
Mono quantum is just not there anymore, and I think the culprit is honestly sparkle and fu xuan falling off drastically if anything. Seele's best team is robin sunday huohuo, easily. So is qingque's most likely, and even xueyi would prefer that or something with ruan mei.
@@zannax351 hanabi is still one of the best supports in the game and fu xaun is the second best shielder so it's the fact we only have 3 quantam dps characters
@@Albedomikansyes and all three have way better teams than mono quantum. QQ, Jade, and Seele prefer Robin Sunday bcs they're just better damage even without weakness implant.
To fix mono quantum, we need to actually make it worth it to run it, which is basically just fixing Silverwolf. Silverwolf has worse uptime than Pela, has worse def shred than Pela w/ Pearls (A non E1 SW running anything other than Tutorial will get ult like every 4 turns, and only on ST), and then RNG implant, which forces you to not run OP supports like Robin Sunday for consistency.
Fixing her and fully speccing her into mono quantum ain't even bad bcs she's virtually outclassed by all other limited supports atm. She just creates a new archetype while also being significantly less versatile than her competitors, which is how HSR should design new supports going forward
@@Wawawawawa750 yep, this is exactly what I wrote in my Nihility Sustain idea too, to be able to spread the debuffs that SW applies to AoE is strong, but this Nihility user MUST have another Nihility user to duplicate it, which already severely limits the options of your team, so if it's powerful, then it should rightfully be powerful
to put fei xiao's 470 words kit into perspective, longest yugioh card (you know, the card game where people are complaining about long texts) clocks in at 183 words spread over 2 textboxes.
Her kit is roughly 2.5x the longest ygo card text. So if you write her kit into ygo card, you need 5 textboxes (assuming texts are equally distributed between textboxes). There are 5 parts to her kit (normal atk, skill, ultimate, technique, passive). So once you read through her kit, it is equivalent of reading 5 ygo card effects (regular card only have 1 textbox).
It is amazing how hsr already reached this level of word inflation before it's second year. By fifth anniversary, it would probably faster to read a deck of yugioh cards than reading a character's kit.
a wierd way to put it. HSR like to have unique keywords on new character to make the debuff stacks, then explained it. lots of text but they have the brief summary toggle if got lost on sea of words, illusion of the past
Clorinde will someday find her way into hsr
@@Headstockch Not a weird way at all. Feixiao mechanics are too unique down to her energy unlike others who just a variation of X does Y with fancy words
Endymion's win con is opp not reading indeed
Most of it is fluff anyway.
You can razorfy it.
I feel like Seele should have like a damage bonus based on the targets max HP? Like she deals bonus damage based on 25% of the targets max hp
Do you even know how broken that is? Yeah lets just give the fastest character in the game an ability that can kill any enemy no matter the health bar in 4 hits max. 😂
im sorry man but I can't take this seriously with your Seele hitting 13k in the background
I will admit. Seele needs high end relics to function but that’s the whole premise. If you don’t have those good relics then she’s definitely dead. Unlike other characters seele needs to have those relics since if she can’t kill basic mobs then her whole kit is dead. She’s one of those characters you have to invest in to be good. You might say “won’t this apply to every character?” The answer to that is no because of what I said before. You need enough to kill those minions
I gave up haha, I gave her sign to march 7th hunt, really makes my life easier with auto playstyle. Seele relic is still on herself tho, even if my stat is beast power creep is beast aswell
But that’s not the case. You have to hyper invest into her just for her to be mid.
Basically waiting for substat update, currently bricked with a mono quantum team
We need a Seele resurgence
I mean she aged better than destructions...
better than bladie, for sure
jingliu and DHIL got a new best in slot thanks to sunday but bladie... he would've been found dead in a ditch but he cannot die so
She’s definetly still useable just not against the big bulky enemies. For now she’s mostly just apocalyptic shadow usage.
@@lillyie it's funny you say that when blade is performing similar if not better than jingliu, jing yuan, and seele without having a best in slot support (hp support)
edit: also i wouldn't count sunday as a best in slot for dhil, good luck with trying to manage your skill points
@@seaberrysvideodump9602I feel the exact opposite as a longtime seele player honestly, shes amazing in pf, solid in moc, but is either really good or borderline useless in apocalyptic shadow
@@lillyieIt's worth noting that seele also benefits just as much from sunday, I think she's still ahead of the destructions and honestly arguably dr ratio too depending on how much you weigh pure fiction.
I could totally see hsr doing something similar to hi3’s PRI arm system
Looking at the thumbnail, I just remembered that I had Seele in my account, time and meta have "killed" her 😔
Same, I just completely forgot that I have Seele, Jing Yuan and Luocha on my account 😅
Careful. You may summon the remaining "Seele is still good" copers.
I'll still 0 cycle with her because I love her, but yeah she's definitely not the path of least resistance in today's meta. However relative to being the very first limited, I think she aged a lot better than some of the other 1.x dps like the destruction characters and dot (until we get a dedicated dot buffer)
I'll say that I have E0S0 seele and E0S2 Jingliu and I still get better results with my seele than my jingliu. I also think sunday will be a massive buff for her, and with that and the future 2.7 moc lineup with the swarm, she's honestly very capable of 0 cycling moc 12 soon with no limited eidolons, which I'll definitely push for.
Skill issue
You’ve clearly never used Seele before. You actually need a brain to use Seele instead of spamming your ult like Acheron
@@Seele-o6j Ah yes, you need a lot of brain to spam skill on MoC 12. Stop coping, her most skillful talent isn't even working 90% of the time in MoC.
@@NothingMeansNothingButNothing she really stands out in bosses that summons minions like the swarm bug and you definitely need skill for her to be good. If you compare her playstyle to the big 3 (Acheron, Firefly, Feixiao) then she definitely takes way more skill. It’s definitely not a coincidence that she can still somewhat keep up, unlike some destruction units (blade and jingliu). You just need skill for her to be good
Why don't they just fix Seele's Talent also count as Follows up attack instead of *Extra turn*
Or more effectively, just Create another Meta about *Extra Turn* or any character that have multiple action in 1 turn (Physical Mc, Sushang) instead of just ABANDONED them insanely
The fact that Bronya is the only “good” Belabog character in the game hopefully if we ever go back it gets new characters that are actually good
Yeah belobog is dead
@ Literally Majority of the characters are four stars It only has 4 five stars 💀✋ While The Zianfuo Luofo has Fucking im pretty sure 12 if im counting right like justice for Belabog 😭
@@Moose6557 No we need justice for how you butchered the spelling of Xianzhou Luofu. 💀
@ 😭
hey pela is still good
Id give her easier extra turns
Always trigger Resurgence when using Ultimate or Skill and can get one AND JUST ONE extra turn per kill anyways
never cook again, every action is anither action thats insanely strong that doubles her damage and she can use sunday and bronya -1 spd to maximize that to a insane degree and just powercreep every dps
@kinnie991 lol Sunday is SP + Bronya i just want her to be on feixiaos power level
4 actions instead of 2 is fine ig
The way i would fix seele is to release an alter variant of her.
i love videos like this so bad, thank you for your services king
Really love the presentation here! Quick question tho, what do you use to make those cool spreadsheet images (like at 10:24)?
you don't even need to change her kit, just increase her multipliers. Just compare her ult multiplier and feixiao's ( Seele 425% vs Fexiao 700% +Bonus). Your idea is great though. thanks for the video
Butterfly Flurry is also the name of her Ultimate, but regardless this is an extremely unique and amazing idea.
They could make a harmony support that buffs seele without being explicit with it like instead of an instant advance when seele (or other dps) takes a turn they get immediately turn advanced after their turn while buffing dmg with consecutive actions and less enemies targeted in the attack increases buffs and the support has a point system ult that charges off of turns taken by characters (not follow up atks or summons maybe ults tho) so seele would be the best at charging the ult getting up to 5 or 6 turns (based on if resurgence happens before turn advance or not) per cast of the support’s skill and the support’s ult could be like robin/ruan mei skill where it counts down off of the supports turn
I think I really like that (and that's definitely not because Sushang is one of my favourite characters and she also happens to play in a way that would be very beneffited by that).
xolze reaction vid incoming🔥💯
waiting for the debunk (spoiler, we dont need one because we know seele is amongst the best dps's even when the universe is against her. seele is bad for those ppl because they invested horizontally instead of upgrading their supports and then seele underperforms on their badly farmed relics+lacking supports, i mean, seele vids are a proof ot that, also there's ken ruroruni if someone wanna use the shitty argument of "she plays on a priver server bwaaaaah :'(" )
i feel like the way to make 1.x units more viable is by adding in emanators like the herta and acheron who requires specific characters from the same path as them.
I hope she gets a little event for Seele at some point for your suggestions hopefully they buff her a bit thank you 🦋😈🙏
Seele needs a rework. A new character.
She just needs a stat increase. The game boosted enemy stats way too much. If they inflate her stats accordingly, she'll perform like normal.
@@blanktrigger8863Hence why a support character for Quantum would make sense and would be the easiest solution. And I still use Seele despite how outdated she is.
Besides, character reworks with Hoyo can be hit or miss. (Zhongli and Yae come to mind)
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!! This is actually such a good concept to buff Seele! I've always thought she should have more emphasis on Speed in her base kit and not just her LC.
I’m ready to ascend my seele to 6 stars with your kit description 😮
Uhhh no; she doesn't need any rework, she's fine as is. It's just the gamemode heavily goes against her, put a crit-based buffs or atk% buffs on the gamemodes and she would bounce back with premium teams. Also, SHARED HP. She's basically Welt in endgames right now; great usability but everything goes against their kit.
yep, just like clara, if theres chara works like Seele or benefits killing creeps, she will shine (Hoolay for clara and DoT team)
I actually like this concept. I can already imagine having the same fun I had when I first played seele. Her ability to deal damage im the same turn.
With more access to more damage (more stacks/buffs last an additional turn/stacks transfer/etc) in this concept, we could finally see our beloved seele become the turn queen again
Her Eidolons should also change.
E1 Should give her, her old 80% DMG resurgence buff for every talent proc(cuz why not it's better than her current one anyway)
E2 Can stay the same but her skill and basic can also generate extra stacks for her ult (Kinda like Acheron E2) or maybe change it to like Acheron E2/ Feixiao E1 Where Seele would deal 1.5x more DMG on bosses/Elites and 1.2x more DMG to regular mobs when there's more than 1 enemy on field.
E4 Give her ult 20% deff ignore or something.
E6 Maybe something like increase ult CRIT DMG by 50% or something and her skill and basic is now considered Ult DMG or His skill SPD buff can stack 2 times while also giving an additional 40% Atk buff (That could also stack) At max SPD stack she would also gain 20% Quantum RES PEN.
Her LC can stay the same since it's already very good for most hunt units
Please take a week building and learning how to use Seele and then make a new vid titled “I was wrong…”
They could have make a the story interlude tailor for each outdated character and buffing them as the same times. With fresh new content will attract both lore reader and gamers, i guarantee i will sell like hot cake
Honestly I wonder where seele or any dps would be if defense shred wasn’t a afterthought mechanic
My biggest regret is pulling for her instead of topaz on her first rerun
Heres an idea of mine
Replace ascension 2 trait to "skill deals an aditional damage based on x% of the target's current HP and ultimate deals an additional damage based on y% of the target's lost HP, if target current HP is less than 50% of their max HP then Seele will deal true damage instead where the defense and element resistance of the target is rendered irelevent. If target has element resistance or defense debuff while HP is lower than 50% then target takes z% more damage per debuff, stacks up to 5 times" (this is here so that silver wolf, Pela and Jiaoqiu can help seele deal even more damage when she deals true damage)
This way making seele the driving force of your team while also making your sustain unit as important as your Seele cause now Seele can be targeted more often than the current ascension 2 trait
Edit : to make it so that people won't scream "das OP kit REEEEEEE" here's some few changes, Seele will have the lowest base HP, HP growth and DEF growth of all The Hunt characters while also being the fastest character out of all the HSR roster making her glass cannon role...well..glass cannoney. Example of a fully kitted Seele basic stats with my idea would be
HP : 2613(all sub stats are crit prio so expect some very low HP and DEF sub stats)
ATK : 3423(quantum planar ORB, 3978+ if ATK planar ORB)
DEF : 980 (again, has the lowest DEF growth per level)
SPD : 124 (with ATK boots, 143+ with SPD boots)
Edit 2: resurgence affects all of Seele's attacks so the buffs provided by ascension trait 2 is gonna get even more nasty.
Lads, hear me out.
Seele is not the problem, HP inflation is.
I can’t lie. After Hoolay, Seele kinda did fell off a little and Feixiao kinda got the spotlight but she’s still strong. It doesn’t mean she’s dead
I always thought a cool way to make Seele viable without overbuffing other units would be a set like this:
2pc: +10% basic and skill DMG
4pc: When the unit wearing this set deals single target damage with their basic or skill, deal 100% (or potentially 200%) additional DMG to non-elite/boss enemies. For every non-elite/boss enemy defeated, increase all single target DMG dealt to elites and bosses by ?%, stacking until end of combat.
I like this approach because it doesn't involve tweaking her kit directly (which is very unlikely from Hoyo) while also enabling Seele for Pure Fiction with very interesting support characters like Hunt March 7th, Feixiao or new hunt/erudition dual DPS Hoyo might add in the future.
The extended duration of buffs is a concept that i always asked why it has not been yet added to the game on a character like seele
"DoTs' waiting for their support"
ME, THAT'S MEEE. Holding out hope for Mr. Reca
If you activate Seele's ult while she is getting a last hit to activate resurgence then the damage buff of the trait will benefit the ult aswell. It has to be fast enough though, otherwise the bonus action will take effect first and remove the buff afterwards. Neat little trick
I don't play HI3, but someone mentioned one of the four remaining silhouettes in the new area's little preview we got actually looked like one of Seele's forms..(?). Again I don't actually play but I've seen the short haired version that they're talking about. I wonder if we will end up getting another Seele or something in the end
Seele is the first limited 5 star and she can still keep up compared to other units like blade and jingliu 😂
Seele isn’t even niche. She’s good in every gamemode. Moc, pure fiction, apocalyptic shadow? She can destroy all 3 game modes. Meanwhile jade is only good in pure fiction
This is before watching the vid so if it's mentioned sorry, but personally I think Seele just needs higher damage multipliers and many some mono quantum support.
Clearing in 8 cycles is kinda bizarre...
You have to try a hybrid build for Seele it utilizes Crt dmg/rate and break, you need to use Boothill's lightcone tho.
I knew this was horrible but I gave it a chance and it’s fucking shit. I just wasted 20 minutes testing this out in every possible way and it’s so much worse than just building her with crit
I really dig your concept, and I think the idea behind Butterfly Flurry is a great one!
Just to throw some feedback I do have to admit there are some things I dislike about the kit. The main two things are the Ult having a bonus 50% crit rate by default and the weakness ignore. I also generally dislike the second ascension trace, albeit I do understand it’s inclusion.
I feel like for the Ult you could’ve borrowed a bit from Argenti. Maybe have it so Seele gains 4% Crit Rate and 8% Crit DMG for each stack of Butterfly Flurry on a target enemy. So at max stacks she’d have 40% bonus crit rate. This has it achieve the same effect you were going for while tying in the Butterfly Flurry stacks into the rest of the kit.
Although when it comes to the Weakness ignore I got no real points against it or suggestions to perhaps make it better. I just don’t like that kind of mechanic on a non-break DPS.
Instead I’d probably try to add back in the trace that has her action advance on the basic attack. On top of the original effect I’d probably also add that it inflicts 2 stacks of Butterfly Flurry, so it becomes her main set-up tool. It wouldn’t do much damage, but it’d help her stack it faster.
These are just some off the top of my head ideas/feedback. I’m always a big fan of how you get me thinking about this stuff
Honestly instead of making her based on stacks for Nuke Ultimate you could make it so that its speed scaling, every 10 spd above x spd threshold gives you x% crit rate and x%crit dmg. She is supposed to have an all rounder kit, her skill and ultimate all have to carry their own weight, switching it to that is just a bad copy of acherons. I just think it would be way cooler to not have the hyper nuke archetype and the hyperspeed archetype, a character that hits so many damn times that the enemy has to die.
@MeghGireesh oh that’s a good point! Now that I think about it her LC also scales with Speed to increase her damage. I got a bit caught up with the initial concept Red proposed.
There is still the potential issue of her running out of Buffs quickly due to that speed, but at the same time there’s ways around that. Characters like Ruan Mei and Robin have buffs based on their turn rather than their ally’s
How to fix Seele: make a newer version of her with better abilities. Boom easy profit.
I wonder if they'll make a character that functions like Sunday's E6, with JUST the OverCrit mechanic and maybe something else like a small dmg boost. I think a unit just like that will be really cool
We have 2 new quantum characters coming soon and they look like supports. Brace yourselves, Seele about make a comeback
50% CR buff? Dawg are you crazy? At this point I think it’s your relics
Jingliu has free 50cr
@@VioleGrace-fk4li and because of that she has very shitty multipliers and no relic scaling
@@VioleGrace-fk4li And she suffers hard for it because most of the units in the game over-saturate her stats
If we’re talking about poorly aged 5 stars you have to leave out Seele since she’s definitely still up there. You probably want to talk about jingliu or blade instead since those guys straight up just died
Blade at least got Jade, its quite a solid team core in AOE content.
With Sunday and Tribbie that's not true. And good luck with SP management since Blade can barely do it with his 0 SP per turn, let alone Seele who eats SP like candy
I would say bailu. She is worthless, 4 stars are far better than her.
4 star characters aren't better than Bailu. Bailu heals WAY more, her only weakness being CC.
I still use her as one of my supports and she still does her job. Not every enemy needs a cleanser.
@@jamess359 healing is worthless if you cant protect towards debuff. Not every enemie needs, but the really hard ones do. Besides, characters like linx also heal a lot, while also preventing debuff. Only four stars she is better is natasha
I was expecting the solution to the "wasted energy" problem to just be to give her a bit of energy every time a stack is produced, like how misha does it
Also I think it's fine to not give this mechanic to seele but I do like how this alternate energy could work : ult can be used only when the total stacks applied to ennemies reaches 10 (or whatever it may be) but it only consumes however many stacks are on the terget ennemy. Like if an elite ennemy has 6 stacks, some normal ennemy has 2 stacks and a other has 1, you have 9 "energy", apply another stack to the elite and then use your ult on it, but because it only had 7 stacks, you still have 3 left afterwards.
She still the only limited five star from Belebog. Are we just not gonna get anymore Belebog characters 😭
Why would we go back? Most players want to explore the stars and not be hung up on 1-2 planets
They abandoned the starter region in Genshin too (latest 5 star from there released 2 years ago, latest 4 star more than a year, not a single map expansion ever while every other region got at least one huge area, etc etc)
I understand that nostalgia is comforting but I think a live service game with a literal vagabond-type protagonist group will never prioritize spotlighting a starter location
@ussinussinongawd516 Every other location has had at least two visits with a boss, as well as at least 2 new 5-stars from that area. Even Herta space station got the bug boss, Ruan Mei, and Ratio.
@@ussinussinongawd516 fym theyre literally hung up on Xianzhou (yes i know Xianzhou is based on the devs chinese homeland but its getting sloppy💀)
@@twisboo then go play a gacha not made by a Chinese dev. Nobody complains about western games having too many white characters… oh wait…
i really like the design of the kit, how she keeps her fast playstyle that makes her act a lot and the extra turn mechanic, while minimizing her flaws, and carving out avery interesting niche for herself. I'm especially fan of her 3rd major trace which give a huge payoff for optimally stacking Butterfly Flurry, leaving a lot of room for skill expressione. i'll now be kinda sad every time i look at my Seele because i'll remember this video and know that she has a vast untapped potential.
Seele did not get powercrept
I feel like E2 Firefly is a good take on this. She gets a ton of speed in her kit, gets Break Efficiency in her kit and at E2 she gets an extra turn on kill or BREAK.
Also, the reliance on her Ult is cared for within her own kit.
How can you call seele “outdated” and “bad” if you can’t even play her right 😭
8:32 I remember my Blade missing crit on ult TWICE IN A ROW with 99,8% cr, so you definitely underestimating "close to 0" chances as long as they are not actually 0 LMAO
Do Silver Wolf next, she basically have nothing left since we dont have to inmplant weakness since now can break regardless of wekaness type and her ult def shred is overshadowed by pela's aoe def shred
I feel Ike if she was released nowadays she would gains turns when enemy is weakness broken as well. She would have higher dmg multiplier. I have Seele E1R0 because I got two in one ten draw. But now I don’t use her at all unfortunately.
The weird thing about old kits from all I can tell nowadays is that they didn’t entirely know what they were going for but for Seele I really am not sure what they were going for, a DPS that gains an extra turn from killing Adds is basically the ultimate farmer but will eventually stop landing the chain kills for the funny damage as the battle goes on, the enemy choices didn’t help too much until everyone’s most favorite bug got added (True Sting). And then Ruan Mid got released and uncovered that Seele has a Kill Stealing weakness (her passive cannot trigger if she doesn’t land the final blow on the enemy, Ruan Mid deals her own additional damage to enemies that get weakness broken) and then it made me even more confused though I chalk that up to old kit since Ratio, Feixiao and basically every major FUA character can actually retarget between waves if their main target gets killed, also someone explain to me why Firefly’s E2 is just Seele’s passive but better.
I think your idea on making her a character that builds up damage on the enemy by doing continuous strikes on them is a good idea mostly but her basic attack would be mostly useless (that action advance would be wild if you can do that though, +70%?) also I think she should take a small page out of Acheron’s book and spread out her “Butterfly Flurry” stacks based off around like Half of the stacks the enemy has currently so it gradually becomes easier to put it all on the boss
By the way your final time stamp doesn’t work, you forgot to put a space between the :10:23
need you on hoyoverse headquarters right NOW ! PLEASE !!!!
Only way i see seele being back to meta is to introduce a harmony that gives character skillpoints if seele can kill anyone, thus letting her run loose on purefiction where hp isnt that mass for her ult to eliminate
Pretty much the only way I see Seele being good again is if a support gets released that buffs based on the targets speed so you can actually use the fact that Seele seems to always overclock on speed
One of my ideas for a Seele awakening is giving her bonus crit based on her speed.
Honestly other than Nightshade her base kit does not need a re-work, she is 1.0 dps so she obviously needs to be weaker than the next few characters, to make her basically like speed-based Acheron does take away from her history in the game. what I think she deserves is better Eidolons, she has horrible Eidolons compared to other limited 5 stars, and even Clara has a net higher amount of good Eidolons. Her first eidolon is not great because it scales on damage dealt for crit rate and there isn't enough crit rate to justify another eidolon. Her e2 which is her only good eidolon is just a speed increase, which can be handy sometimes but still is not all that worth it. Her e4 is worse just because of the core issue of resurgence not being able to harness it due to HP inflation and her e6 is just a stupid quantum dot and the worst part is if she kills the enemy with said quantum dot it won't even activate resurgence. E1 could have 25% crit rate or make it so that the enemy has to have been hit by Seeles skill for the crit rate buff because of how massive 20% is for bosses. E2 can be as is but also add an extra crit dmg or Dmg% boost with the second skill usage, E4 could be revamped and made so that after a set amount of turns Seele automatically activates resurgence just like the hunt blessing in SU, it makes her way more fun to play and her fucking e6 can change so that the quantum dot also activates resurgence if it kills an enemy, but a better idea might be to just to make it so that when she breaks an enemy she activates resurgence. She is built around the hunt blessings in SU so just take inspiration from it, its not that bad.
ngl I am SO happy I dropped star rail early on after hearing its issues of power creep. Already did it with HI3, can't take it again
After like 1 year and 8 months, I've finally laid off my Seele. She had served me well since 1.0
They could release a character that has a similar mechanic to the memory zone meme, where they inflict some kind of a debuff on enemies, and the enemy is declared "defeated" without having their HP bar reduced to 0 the next time they take damages.
Easy way to fix Seele:
Make her resurgence count as a follow up.
Seele is very versatile and flexible compares to the meta dps right now. Acheron is locked behind nihility. Feixiao is locked behind fart team and firefly is literally stuck with Ruan mei and hmc. Seele on the other hand can be paired with any hyper carry supports. Sunday, tingyun, sparkles, bronya, robin, Yukong, and the list goes on.
Most Poorly aged 5 star is actually a crazy statement when you think about it The only Really Big concern is that shes hard to play but if you jnow how to play her correctly Then shes way better than youd expect
I think the requirement of defeating an enemy is a bit much with the HP Inflation of today, if Resurgence activated on inflicting weaknesses break, maybe she'll be more consistent, but that might cuase Super Break Seele
I love the idea of a buff when you have your uiltimate since that would actually give the hunt LC subscribe for more! a purpose and not just make it a fairly useless LC just collecting dust in our inventories
Seele isn't even good vs enemy waves with adds! My Seele is very well built and she can't oneshot a basic enemy like an Imaginary Weaver even with a weakness break, while buffed by Sparkle's Skill.
HP inflation has completely killed her Resurgence Talent. The kicker is that Resurgence isn't even that good of a talent anymore; Even if Seele could get it off of adds, mathematically her self buffs aren't even potent anymore. Feixiao's self buffing is better, Acheron's debuffs might as well be a self buff, Firefly is self explanatory and even Jingliu who has fallen off a lot buffs herself more than Seele and has better uptime.
Resurgence riding off of an extra turn in the end only means it is roughly equivalent to a +100% damage buff, with some extra energy gain on top.
I think in content where resurgence procs are easier she snowballs out of control a lot harder than you give her credit for. The kicker is her basic attack action advance stacked with her skill speed buff that lets her loop far more actions in a given amount of action value than almost any other dps in the game. Robin helps tremendously with chipping mobs into kill range for seele because now every basic attack from tingyun or gallagher or pela or whoever does 20k damage. Interspersing basic attacks in between her turns with good use of an action advance harmony (sparkle rn, sunday when he releases) and dance dance dance is the reason seele is still considered on par with acheron and feixiao for the extremely tiny minority of the playerbase that does minimum cost 0 cycling. Though even for the layperson, robin does so much to make her more usable in standard endgame content, and is definitely the biggest limit pusher for seele currently
I always thought the hp pool spike is there to incentivize people to make use of MoC buff, but then again why make the buff broken only to inflate enemy HP this much?
Just you watch. Propagation is going to become a playable path, and the new support will create scapegoat enemies that will give targets for Seele to trigger resurgence on while massively buffing her dmg.
The problem isn’t Seele but the game itself. Watch how fireflop will fall off after patch 3.0 while Seele is still strong
@Seele-o6j
I agree that Firefly will probably fall off after 3.0 but given the HP inflation trend rn Seele is definitely not going to stay strong since her resurgence becomes useless in MOC
@@Cat-pv6yx even if that’s the case she’s still better than 90% of dps. She doesn’t need a rework as she’s already great. If moc hp inflates then not only will seele fall off a little but the rest of the dps (dhil, jingliu, blade) and even dot teams will fall of along with it. I have to admit firefly is strong but seele isn’t weak
still weird to me that she's still the only limited belobog 5* 💀
It had to be somebody, otherwise the entire belobog cast might as well be four star/standard
@@ishashifar and sadly enough, most of them are outdated by today standard
simple, just create a support that summons an attackable unit with 1 hp that when hit gives the attacker lots of buffs
I just hope that hoyo can cook up a support for Seele like they did for Jing yuan
They can add a nihility/harmony character that adds an enemy to the field that dies in one hit...
Bro is gonna introduce a divine key-like lightcone plus she is from Hi3 so it would probably make sense(?)
Giving crit rate bonuses gives me jingliu ptsd
Crit rate is the worst bonus you can get from a trace/talent because it's not multiplicative, Feixiao proves this.
Fei needs to be as close as you can get to 100% CR, and YES it's possible, and also YES it needs lots of investment. But by not giving CR bonus, the talent/trace can give other bonus that improve damage exponentially i.e. damage boost, def shred, res pen, crit damage, extra turn, extra energy, atk bonus. There are many other bonuses that are objectively better than giving crit rate for free
Really would enjoy if hoyo see this video, but the sad truth is that they will most likely not do this kind of thing, I am a Seele main and really wanted to see she have a spotlight again
Just pull for Sunday for now.. seele is good with him compare to sparkle..
So like, are we just gonna ignore Fu Xuan's Crit. Rate buff for mono-Quantum teams. I feel like especially with all the add-ons a 30% guaranteed Crit. Rate% on the Ultimate would be fine.
that kit sounds so fun it's kinda sad I can't play it (I like big numbers ☝️
People love to exaggerate the “””power creep””” in Star rail… No, your 1.0 characters not 0 cycling the final floor of the current MoC is not power creep, and no bosses having more HP isn’t power creep, why do so many hoyo players want to NOT play the game? Oh you can’t delete the boss health bar in one attack? Game must be bad. Remember the Adventurine boss that everyone complained about because it had actual mechanics so people couldn’t melt him instantly? Yeah…
Also, Seele’s kit was just bad from the start unfortunately, but she was literally the first limited 5* so we didn’t really know yet.
I was with you until the last part
@ the seele kit part or the adventurine boss part? lol
@@RenkittyRenzo Seele part. The whole vid was kinda dumb and the gameplay nearly made me kill myself. At least learn to use Seele before riding off other peoples opinion 🤦♂️. No hate to you tho just the creator
@@Hajime292 fair enough, I should’ve said her kit was overly simple as opposed to bad
If you look at this more objectively, Seela aged better than
Blade, dhil, jingliu, kafka, sparkle, black swan, argenti, fu xuan ,Jing yuan, luocha, silver wolf. Have i forgotten someone?
I think ppl who think seela suck now miss the point on how to use her. Seela have low multiplyer, but at the same time the semplicity of her kit let her get incredible sinergy with any new support. She work well or even great with ruan mei, sparkle, robin and she will work great with sunday to.
The problem is, in order to overcome her multiplyer problem, you need to go sustainless. Sustainless seela can, and have 0 cycle at e0s0 basically all moc untill now. But sustainless is risky. And because of that ppl dont play her.
Trust me, sustainless with pela robin and tingyung my seela deals 220k per skill and 400/450k per ult. Thats not bad damage. And even today those number are more then enought for the adds and so on.
She scale extrimly with support.
If I get Fugue I might try making her a Break DPS 😂
All that SPD shouldn't go to waste
as a Seele simp from Hi3, I was a tad disappointed to realize the reality of Seele being the first 5 star... I tried to deny it but I couldn't make her good enough to go through the game.
I'm betting that their way of "fixing" her will be to give her an alternate version.
Legit. Simple change would be to remove the one-time cap on her talent.
Would make her "better"