I think Destiny slipped up a bit when he got heated and said something along the lines of “well if I can’t stick to the truth I’d rather the Nazis take over” Sunday of course instantly reframes it to “so you want people who want to exterminate people to run the country” Stephen dodges it a bit , but Sunday does press that advantage a little. Of course it’s a bit hard to recover in the heat of the moment , but he perhaps should have said “You’re right Sunday , I misspoke , what I mean is if I knowingly surrender the truth , I’m *already* giving up MY morals to the point where we may as well let Nazis take over because we have no moral foundation left in which to stand.”
@@anap1680 I would say Destiny hasn’t moved me at all from my right wing position, but I enjoy his content because I think he tends to actually be arguing in good faith and is easily digestible. He’s not throwing word salad to try to seem intelligent, he’s usually straightforward and not weasley. I dig that.
"Lack" doesn't even feel like the right word because it implies that there's an amount of potential charisma he could develope at some point in the future. To me, it's more like a *void* of charisma. You know, like a singularity of trite pretention.
I'm 30 minutes in and these guys have said absolutely nothing except that they don't like his writing style, he dictated it, and that he's been writing it for 4 years. For people who were so smug about how wrong all the content is they are taking forever to actually get to a point. Jesus these people love to hear themselves talk even more than Vaush, this is painful.
Glad it wasn't just me. I was waiting and waiting for them to make a single argument, or even something resembling a point. Just lots of empty words, smug laughter and character assassination with nothing to back it up. Watching them eventually try to struggle through a criticism, it was painfully obvious they were clutching at straws. Are these academics?
I was literally just thinking the exact same thing at 31m and was gonna comment the same thing. They've said nothing lol. "I thought he was smart but clearly he's not." = nothing burger.
When people have something legitimate, they get to the point. When a criticism drags in this way, it should signal to you that it's not valid. They're padding time to make it look like serious allegations when in actuality they have nothing or very minute criticisms.
As a Ph.D student in Physics, these people embody everything I hate about academics. Insecure men being pedantic about style and formal definitions of things, even though it's exactly clear what you mean. Then have virtually no criticisms of the content, but want to keep asserting they're "smart" and you're not because of irrelevant things like punctuation.
These guys were exactly like some undergrad math classmates of mine (I majored) and they actually are the worst people. I remember a group setting in Analysis where two guys were steamrolling me and the other people, sorta debating each other back and forth in "notationese" even though we'd literally just learned the words until finally someone asked a super basic question that revealed a solution to the proof. Just feels like some smart-ish people with poor social skills lean hard into hyper gatekeeping their disciplines, even when they actually are far less competent than they present.
From my experience in academia, this only gets worse the more politicized a topic becomes. It’s especially bad regarding things like popgen and intelligence research.
I’m not quite sure you can be exactly clear what you mean in physics without *formal* definitions. Or perhaps I am misinterpreting “exactly” to mean something more like “perfectly” or “completely.” I agree that physics is worth doing even without that clarity, and that the need for it is often unnecessary. I come at this as a physicist turned mathematician/philosophy double major turned mathematician, though, so perhaps it was my inability to understand informal things that was at fault.
@@PartiallyIdentified I don't think they're smart at all tbh. They have this sort of autistic hyperfocus into specific "skills" and then completely lack anything outside of that in terms of their analysis and communicative abilities. Rem is an actual intelligent one. He can actually listen, parse out whats being said, give feedback, and have a fruitful enough conversation with someone whether they're a layman or not.
>Destiny says something >President says "Well no actually something something semantics" >Destiny adds details to fit this semantic caveat >President says well yes I know we agree but did you consider how this may be perceived Homie goes so far out of his way to avoid substantive discussion.
Midwits, people with semi high IQ tend to argue in the moment, they simply try and find flaws in the argument, even if they agree with it. To them, it's not about truth, it's about winning the argument. Half the time they don't even understand their own ideology.
I mean if it's wrong they'd be right to deny it. But yeah they'd definitely begin fapping to the idea how the sky is green if Destiny said it was blue.
@@cdubsb3831 What issue do you believe he's wrong about? He bases his worldview on some misguided vision he has of "normalcy", but that doesn't make him "always wrong", unless one gets rather reductive.
So I guess President Neckbeard knows how to act like a proper human when he's not performing for his audience, I don't know if that makes it worse or better though.
You've gotta have ice in your veins or be completely psychotic to exist in the streamer world. Idk how some of these people act so confident and above everyone else
@@Fritztafer Not if you go outside regularly lol. Being a debate lord doesn't mean much to someone just trying to mind their business and pay their bills.
@@Fritztafer I haven't spoken to a single person who doesn't already have a little bit of that in them. That said, I am a college student, so there might be a bit of a selection bias there.
@@cassetteo absolutely not, there's a huge difference. The internet culture around streaming is insanely disconnected from anywhere I've been before. Part of it is just being a public figure, but also it's being online for 8hrs a day, it totally changes how people view each other.
@@js280608 fortunately for both of us, I CAN remember the past and that's actually MY house. I asked you to look after it for me while I was away on business, you must have hit your head on the gold toilet and lost your memory.... Anyway you can leave now
The fact that they spent the first half hour questioning the fucking sentence structure shows that they went into this with no strong arguments to lead with and (more than likely) no strong arguments at all. And they want to attack Destiny for his use of time omegalul
The worst part is that they most likely have no self-awareness how blatantly bad faith and pedantic they are being. To give him some modicum of credit, Vaush (I think it was) realized it a bit but the M'Lady guys were really lost in the vitriolic sauce. Edit: President Sunday, Not vaush
@@Dog3D right like, “allow me to meticulously dismantle the unrelenting arrogance present in Destiny’s suboptimal ability to construct such a manuscript. (with alacrity)”
Yeah I was so freaking confused, why is he reviewing the writing like we're sitting in an english class or whatever. And later when it comes to the actual content they're like "This is so dumb, I don't believe I don't get into the why." Like common you had the time and "patience" to correct the form for half an hour but just stumble half hazardly through the actual content...
And then, when Sunday comes onto the stream, his whole position was "You can do your thing without tearing down the left leaning activists you disagree with" which... was _exactly_ what his stream was, he was tearing down destiny because he disagrees with him.
The point of the manifesto went right over these guys' heads. It wasn't to point out the people who slighted him, it was to outline their hypocrisy and inconsistencies in their retelling of these stories
it did not go over their heads. they agree with their behavior because they believe in living a double standard within society and excluding themselves from the group that is held to different standards. They are aware of their actions. They just support it and have no intention of engaging with the concept because they do not believe that they should be challenged on it. what actually goes over dems heads is federal corruption can not be ignored because the politicians in question should be held to a different standard than those who "oppose" trans rights. People honestly think they can maintain they are the victimized class, and their political opposition are privileged while the deep state manufacture's lies to benefit this so call "victimized class" something something 50 intelligence officials claim hunter bidens laptop is Russian disinfo.... If I had a nickel every time a democrat admitted a trending national story that made maga looked bad was not real. I would have 0$ Even after they used said story are a cudgel to insult someone who would opposed their deeply dishonest political movement.. the sad bit, if the color of my skin was darker these people would be much more likely to listen.. They even directly say as much in the same sentences where they denounce their opposition as the racists.
well to these people, ideological hypocrisies is the same as a “slight” or even a “troll”, when in reality its indicative of a much more serious problem as the D-man points out
"destiny, why are you critical of online trans activists?" "because people have started saying trans women and cis women are biologically the same" "but nobody says that" "actually they do, here's an example" "but destiny, trans women and cis women are the same biologically" this happens in this conversation over and over again. his only context to the conversation he's having is only 1 sentence deep, he doesn't even realize he's giving counter arguments to his own arguments from 2-3 sentences prior because he's too focused on disagreeing at all cost, all while providing zero evidence for any of the general claims he's making about destiny's community.
another example destiny: no i disagree, i think universities have historically been more left-leaning than the general population president sunday: that's not true, they were only left-leaning relative to that period of time! he managed to somehow disagree with a statement by making the exact same statement.
I have no idea how Destiny treats people who interrupt him, directly mischaracterize his views, speaks vitriolically behind his back only to act kinder in person, be unable to comprehend their own hypocrisy, with respect and patience. Props
It's not because they deserve it, obviously. It's because the topic, and possibly even the listeners may deserve it. Is my guess, anyhow. This is very useful to keep in mind because; it helps to de-personalize the whole process, and makes keeping that all-important cool so much easier.
It’s because destiny realizes the guy was just making content, just as he has done 1000 times before. People often talk bad like that and act that way for drama and entertaining content and then they will pretend to be offended, get on discord and have a talk and rake in the money. Don’t buy into it. It’s a show
You forget he's been doing this for the better half of a decade. This guy being a bit snide and bad faith is nothing compared to how people have spoken about him throughout the years
What does this guy even stream about? I cant imagine he does hasan/vaush type punditry. He's constantly sighing like he's capable of streaming something above this while simultaneously needing 4 other people to help him badly analyze the document (that they all spent 4 hours prereading).
The problem with President Sunday's position is that he already told us he wants Destiny to exercise careful bias favorable to leftists in order to achieve some kind of virtuous ideological goal. Anything he says from that point is literally worthless. Why would you even entertain a conversation with a person who just admitted their whole persona is insincere?
That's honestly a pretty reasonable perspective to have on engaging in politics and one that's pervasive to the point of basically being the default. If there's people who want bad things and other people who want good things, wouldn't it be reasonable to be at least somewhat more charitable to the people who want good things?
I will caveat that alot of, if not most, people take this too far especially if we're talking about pundits and other famous political operators, but I think nit engaging in some amount of reasonable bias based on your moral system seems alien to most people and also counterproductive generally. I also think you should still be open-minded enough to admit when people on your side say dumb shit or when people on the opposite side make good points, but I don't think that necessarily contradicts having a bias in favour of people who share your moral ideology.
@@Azraelmaximilian The issue is that for leftists of this breed, "people who want bad things" are "democrats that aren't as far left as me". These people can't even recognize the difference between democrats and republicans in terms of badness, and there's multiple things they want that are bad themselves (widely varying depending on specific breed). I see no reason why the mouth frothing cannibal who wants to genocide half the country and put half the remainder into reeducation camps to induct them should be treated with more good faith than the white nationalist on the opposite side. If all it took was "at the end of the way, these people generally have good intentions and want some goal that makes people happy" to warrant being especially charitable towards them, then that's a meaningless goal because *everyone* wants that, they're just dumb about how to get to that point.
@@Azraelmaximilian That just makes it sound like a more convoluted version of what the OP said. I lean toward left policies and institutions because they seem like the best. Because I think they are the best, I will argue for them and be biased towards them. That's still being sincere and honest. Or I could be just reading this whole thing wrong.
@@Azraelmaximilian Being charitable towards people makes it easier to convince them of things. So if your aim is to solve problems, you should be the most charitable towards people who are in the way of solving those problems. If you do the inverse, people who disagree with you will be less likely to change their minds.
As somebody who does VO part time, the guy who is OBSESSED with not understanding that conversational style exists in writing is frankly embarrassing. What a weird thing to get hung up on.
He gives me the vibe of a 12 years oldsky daddy Christ believer, conservative mgtow cu*k whose girlfriend leaves him for a black dude Only difference is vaush is a leftist snd gay🤣
Destiny, it would be pointless to talk to this guy again. He says a lot without saying much. He will continue to say that "we can never really know" no matter how much you present to him. The real question is: does he apply this level of skepticism to all things? He didn't when you guys were talking about the Trans issue. From the position he took with regard to presenting things to kids, he would have to be against speaking to them about Trans issues to be consistent.
I love how Doctor Sunday can read the minds of the masses. Because the possibility exists of harm, you must not do that thing. Guess you have to stay in your house forever to prevent all that possible harm you can cause by living your life.
This is what pisses me off about him. Acts like he's some philosopher king while the rest of us are drooling barbarians that will pillage the lands if a smiling man says so. I hope some day someone he looks down on completely shatters his ego and every video of him cause cringe induced pain.
He also does exactly the same thing of which he's criticizing Destiny. He keeps saying 'you don't have to tear down the left activists you disagree with' and then... does a stream where he tears down destiny, someone on the left, that he disagrees with.
President Sunday's friend sounds like Tales of Two Tails. Anyone know if that's him? This is the guy that paired up with Serfs to debate Lauren on mass graves. And both Serfs and this guy came off as total idiots.
I'm really starting to hate this victim mindset. How is he getting upset at destiny for wanting to engage with the people who criticized him? Jfc can there be no pushback. Their narratives are just supposed to go unchallenged?
Yup, most of them think they are beyond reproach yet can barely defend their own side. They often only attack which screws them over, look at how all the people that attacked Destiny are lunatics...
If your authortian any criticism against the regime or the cathedral is a crime against humanity in there eyes. They get to be in charge your supose to shut up and obey.
It's not a victim mindset. It's like some weird paternal savior complex these people have with any group they deem as marginalized. They aren't acting like a victim they are acting like some kind of religious police where they get to hold people accountable if they are directly or indirectly "harming" the group they have appointed themselves to protect.
As someone who actually has a degree in some of this stuff, that's when I immediately knew they were just trying to sound smart and had no idea what they were actually saying.
@@pannkeki8940 Yeah I’m pretty sure in terms of actual education PS studied political science, but he just reads a lot of philosophy on the side so it’s sort of like an invested hobby as opposed to a formal education.
Oh and the "Do I even have to say why this is wrong? You said you are a little rusty, can you go over why this is wrong?" To be this picky while also not saying so little actual criticism is truly a special skill. And then to also throw the new guy under the bus at the same time. Masterclass, perfectly done.
I enjoyed how they were mocking Destiny of pretending to be intelligent, but throughout their debate that’s all they were doing. Seemed like they were stretching the underlying text way too much.
My God, Sunday is an utterly insufferable person. The only thing that surpasses his complete lack of charisma is the light-less void where his self-awareness would normally reside.
@Coffee Pot I have never heard of this guy and I'm no fan of destiny but the first few minutes I heard him talk he is absolutely insufferable in everyway.
These guys completely lost me when they started criticising your writing style. Destiny wasn't writing an academic paper. He was writing an internet manifesto. Who cares? When someone picks apart something like writing style, when it's not relevant to the topic. This is just something they can dig at. Also, as a fiction writer, I write specifically the way people talk all the time to make the writing read more naturally. To dig on them, they've probably never read the Elements of Style. They have sophomoric takes.
I think they're just putting Destiny on a pedestal in order to knock him down. You know the saying "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? They're making Destiny bigger in their heads in order to try to make him fall harder.
Nah, as a massive light novel addict you can read the lowest level of writing style and think it is normal but once you listen to regular books you relise the writting is at the level of a 10 year old. I have gone from years of reading novels to years of reading light novels and now starting back at novels and my conclusion is yes light novels are the easiest to understand but it is also torture on the highest level.
The best stories i have read were only consumable by years of looking in filther places for a high and getting accustom to the dirt mixture. Like thoses stories I think it is ok to criticise the writing Style even tho its very accessible
Yeah, I mean I disagree. I don't think writing style matters as much when trying to provide information to a wide audience. Does the information get across? Yes? Good. Them criticizing the style is just to find something to dig at. At that point they'd barely even engaged with the text yet and made up their minds.
I've never listened to such succinct examples of the Dunning Kruger effect before. It's like watching that episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia where Charlie thinks he's a genius because he took a pill that was supposed to make him smarter.
16:45 this is the epitome of ivory tower thinking. He's mad because people are trying to explain academic or philosophical ideas in a way that is accessible to a mass audience. The only people who should be allowed to explain this are professors who have spent years studying it, and the only people they should be allowed teach it to are ones who are willing to spend years learning it. Everyone else just doesn't get to learn the word "ontology" or whatever else.
49:30 "Poisons the well with an upfront conversation." Honestly couldn't help but laugh when he said that. How on earth is having a conversation with someone and allowing them to give their point of view and discuss it "poisoning the well"?
The word “poisoning the well” naturally comes with a ton of negative connotations but that is what he is doing. You can call it “framing the discussion” if you want but the idea is that you are telling your audience what to think before you even get into the discussion. This biases them right out of the gate, hence “poisoning the well” It’s not a good or bad thing but it is what you are doing when you do what destiny did or when you make an opening statement in a debate.
@@mrmr2488 have you ever written a persuasive essay? This is how it's done. Like I don't know about you, but literally every essay of the dozens upon dozens I wrote in middle school and highschool were supposed to be structured this way.
@@yung_bonsai re-read what I said. I’m not knocking destiny or saying he is wrong for doing it but that is what’s being done. Poisoning the well is just a charged word to use but it still does technically work. As I said, I would just call it “framing the argument”
@@mrmr2488 This idea of Destiny "poisoning the well" sounds like it's rooted in postmodernism. It's impossible for Destiny to portray an accurate take of things because truth doesn't exist; anything he tries to lay out as an argument is necessarily a narrative, and thus "poisons the well" with his take of things. But that goes both ways, the criticism of his narrative is simply just another narrative, and you can roll with it if you want, but that means everybody who claims anything about anything is then "poisoning the well" with their take. I personally think postmodernism is decaying our society, what a terrible ideology.
Funny how you can count on twitch streamers to react incredulously to effort being put into something. "He took a long time making this! It's like 130 pages! I can't believe it. Also Destiny is so wrong and stupid that I can't articulate how that's the case in even a half hour of rambling."
The whole speel about you using a phrase correct or incorrect and then backtracking once they realized you were attempting to use the colloquial version as a base for uses elsewhere was quite funny. They went from oh he is just wrong to "oh well in that case why didn't he just say it simpler" 😂😂
Wow. This guy interrupts Destiny repeatedly throughout this whole convo. Then has the audacity to rudely cut him off and say "I've learned your power, I can interrupt you". Guy needs to rewatch this and see how long he rambles on for. Wild. No self awareness.
Can’t believe it took 20 min for them to discuss his use of the term “etc” before analyzing anything he has written at all. This is hilarious as fuck, it sounds like Vaush’s long lost brothers all stroking their beards and dusting their fedoras.
This guy is exhausting. It feels like he never says anything you can prove/disprove and if he does, he just jumps away from it immediately when you call him out
I love how much time and effort they put in to make sure people know how little they care about this. Yet they know all the chapters and contents. They keep catching themselves and use lines line "oh i saw a screenshot of it" or "i accidentally came across it". I just need people to know how little i care. Now let's start this entire panel i put together to go over this thing that i definitely don't care about. Did i mention how boring this is? Alright, let's start the panel off with sn hour long discussion about his writing style and if we think he typed this out or used dictation. He may have even written it in paper first. Do you think he used pen or a pencil? That opens up a whole new subject of whether he used an eraser or not. Also, there's something i wanted to discuss after reading page 74 paragraph 3. Oh i mean someone accidentally showed me a screenshot and told me what page it was on. Also could we be as quiet, slow, and monotone as possible?
Destiny, you have 100% and without a doubt brought me closer to the middle. I’m from a small town in Tennessee and was born in the mid 80s. Trans people have always been associated with severely disturbed sexual predators and/or freak shows in general. Over the past year or two you’ve opened my eyes to a lot. It’s true that people like Vaush or Demon Mamma do nothing but push me further away. It’s been a journey. And honestly without you I don’t think I would have ever been swayed at all.
Gotta love the elitism: How dare amateurs talk about things like ontology?! They aren't allowed! This fundamental subject that impacts everyone is just allowed to be addressed by professional philosophers! Idiots.
This video helped me have an epiphany about one of my issues with the left. One of the biggest issues the left is facing currently is the constant expectation to treat all information with some form of intellectual kid gloves. I understand this is an attempt to avoid useful misinterpretation that can be used for bad actors. The issue is they will do it anyway. And they will do it even if you plaster the words "I do not endorse racism of bigotry" all over it.
As someone who watches most of Destiny's content, there is not a single second I have considered watching Nick's or Lauren's content seperatly anywhere. They are still insufferable, since no one else can even slightly rein them in.
"No one begins writing a sentence, 'Well, people debate...' That's not a sentence people write." Some people actually do write the way they talk. Some people like David Foster Wallace made an art form of it. This is why he -- a master of grammar -- routinely began sentences with, "And but so..." I love people who are so smart they're stupid. Another phenomenon DFW spilled a lot of ink exploring.
@@mutedmutiny9542 - Correct. Anyone who’s ever seen The King and I says, “Etcetera. Etcetera. Etcetera.” But again, these guys are too smart to write the way people actually speak. I.e. accessibly.
This reminds me of the part during "The Hobbit" where the 3 trolls are arguing with each other and smacking each other with spoons, while arguing about how they are going to cook and eat the dwarfs/hobbits.
Destiny after listening to 12 minutes of vapid scoffing and patronizing laughs: "Man, I wonder what their criticism is gonna be 'Uhhhhh, at least Destiny's smart, except for now I see he's not'." Guy literally 15 seconds later: "Ya, the most surprising thing about all of this is I used to think Destiny was like a grounded, intelligent, quick witted person but...." Please tell me that wasn't a pre-watch 😂😂😂
These guys have the Vaush I smell my own farts voice, and they're just dripping with fedora energy. Btw anybody who says "people spend entire life terms learning 'x' so you cant discuss this topic without basically admitting that you're mostly wrong because you can't claim to be an expert" are just coping so hard. They do know we live during a time where there's the internet, right? Yeah maybe back in the day it might take you years to fully grasp something, because everything (especially academic subjects) were so insanely compartmentalized that you would have to sift through 500 page books just to construct a basic understanding. Not only that, you had to figure out which books to read, and you had to source them yourself, which was a task unto itself. This is where academia was very useful because you had people who could walk you through all of the pertinent material. With the internet, we not only have instant access to information, there are also millions of people who spent years learning this stuff, and have sifted through this information, and these people have taken time out of their day to distill this information to its core points, something you would've had to have done yourself, and is something which yes, would probably take years. This is the beautiful thing about the internet. Years worth of knowledge and understanding can be yours in a matter of weeks, maybe months. There are tons of resources, essays, summaries, you name it. You can get a fairly good working knowledge of literally anything in a very short amount of time. You can easily look up a book list, listen to a podcast, or read someone's comprehensive overview. You definitely don't need to go to school and spend years learning ontology to be able to discuss it, or have a good understanding of it. To say otherwise is basically to say you're too much of an idiot to take advantage of the massive leap forward that was the internet. It doesn't need to be complex guys. We work towards making things less complex and easier to grasp. Idiots admire complexity, geniuses admire simplicity--Terry Davis
This really encouraged me to pursue my hobbies, even if they change. I didn’t know where the hell to start & thought I had to pick one thing, dig my heels in, & crawl through it for years to even begin to understand what I’m talking about. You reminded me I’m making excuses to avoid beginning. Thanks for taking the time to comment! I’m happy to have read it.
@@autorka1001 Hobbies are always worth pursuing if they interest you and wont put you into financial debt because of one simple fact. Its not about being the best at something, its about being better at something than you thought possible for yourself. If that's 1st in state for RC car racing or just that you got a single track's time down by 1 second that's been like that for 10 years and no one else has improved, or if its as simple as even beating your friend at something they usually always beat you in.
Sorry but saying that by reading some stuff on internet you can grasp an argument like an academic that studied it for years is the very foundation of the dunning kruger effect
@@gehrig7593 maybe I didn't word it right or maybe you're misunderstanding. I'm not saying Joe Schmoe skimming a fucking Wikipedia article is going to be able to go toe to toe with a tenured professor. Obviously not. What I am saying is that if you put in the effort and if you have the capacity, you could definitely get a great understanding of any subject you wish, Obviously it takes years to cultivate a very deep understanding to the point where you could write a great essay on a topic or something, but to say youre just not able to understand anything as good as someone who goes to school for a topic is some gatekeeping academic cuckoldry
@@jackorlove4055 yeah I think you've misspoken. For example, when you say things like "maybe back in the day it would take you years to fully grasp something" . There's a weird that's happened to knowledge since our engagement with the internet. In a lot of ways were more educated but we don't read as many books anymore. There's something gained, something lost.
After all of this back and forth one thing is for certain. It is very interesting to see how Destinys castle is slowly coming together during all these videos.
kind of insane to start with ‘is this even worth going over?’ then reading the first sentence and spending 5 minutes speculating every possible way it could have been written
1:58:00 I literally only write like this. I just dictate my own voice as I think aloud and alot of times I keep it in a conversational tense. I keep the syntax positioned in a way to lend to a cadence and certain emphasism to lend the read in how they hear the sentence when they read it. What's wrong with that? Probably why people say I need better grammar. 🤣
I actually think president Sunday displayed a more than acceptable amount of good faith in the conversation here at least in comparison to what i expected. I think he's genuinely interested in hearing Destiny in his positions and making an attempt to change his mind or understand why they disagree. I think he has very strong political leanings that might make that difficult, or make changing his mind difficult, but I look forward to their next conversation in a more structured format. I'm hoping he'll bring the same energy in their potential upcoming conversation and not try to reach for slam dunks the whole time. I see president Sunday as kinda unlikeable in his personality ESPECIALLY after seeing his conversation with Not So Erudite, but he's clearly decently intelligent and willing to hear why Stephen feels the way he does and is behaving the way he has been in regards to leftism and the political culture around it. Good conversation.
I'm in college and I'm not the best writer, econ major here. But I write very closely to how I talk bc I want to appeal to ppl thru a familiar sense. If people can read my work, say it out load, and relate to that manner of phrase, It feels more personal and persuasive to me. Also dictations come out insanely bad, like I did one junior year of high school and it was shit but it was due the next day
It's like they've been told "get a life" their entire life and they think now is their time to say it themselves lmao. Dark camera guy reeks of cathartic projection.
The way P Sun talks down on Destiny’s “lack of intelligence” while every single person watching knows Destiny would run circles around him, would be entertaining if his speech wasn’t literally audio chloroform.
they are right about ontology, it does not have to do with classification, it has to do with being. The ontology of things can be classified, and in order to study ontology classifications must be made, but ontology itself precedes classification
Heh, man Destiny is just so wrong about stuff. Like not only is he wrong about everything, he's not right about any of it either. It really is hilarious how arrogant he is being so wrong about stuff but thinking he's right. Like some people spend years trying to be right about something when Destiny thinks he can be right about it in a few paragraphs. Meanwhile he's just so wrong about all of the things he tries to portray himself as being right about. The wrongness of Destiny's arguments unfortunately however tend to be overshadowed by the 3-star general level debate strategies he uses to appear rhetorically correct about his positions while just being wrong. People like us tend to be right about mostly everything we talk about unlike Destiny who is shameless in his unrelenting mission to say wrong things pretending to be right. And this manifesto truly encapsulates hilariously just how wrong Destiny is about all of the things he tries to talk about. alright i'm bored now
How much of a brainlet do you have to be to assert that a manifesto's biggest shortcoming is its lack of comedy? A manifesto, by definition, is a prescription. It is a policy position. It is among the most essentially dry pieces of literature a person can produce by its very design. He immediately lost any credibility the second he criticized the writing style.
President Sunday is right about the ancedotes and how they have a flaw in that we don't always have the full context. Something more concrete would be useful, so looking forward to the follow-up!
Previous debate w/ President Sunday
Destiny Convinces Him To Quit The Debate ►ua-cam.com/video/_j61a34Oork/v-deo.html
are these the "here's why destiny bit the pizza" people?
Wasn't his whole point on that debate that platforming destiny was bad... but here he is again...
I think Destiny slipped up a bit when he got heated and said something along the lines of “well if I can’t stick to the truth I’d rather the Nazis take over”
Sunday of course instantly reframes it to “so you want people who want to exterminate people to run the country”
Stephen dodges it a bit , but Sunday does press that advantage a little.
Of course it’s a bit hard to recover in the heat of the moment , but he perhaps should have said “You’re right Sunday , I misspoke , what I mean is if I knowingly surrender the truth , I’m *already* giving up MY morals to the point where we may as well let Nazis take over because we have no moral foundation left in which to stand.”
Your right BTW
You drew me away from the right to the being more moderate right, I think so at least.
So keep doing your thing destiny
@@anap1680 I would say Destiny hasn’t moved me at all from my right wing position, but I enjoy his content because I think he tends to actually be arguing in good faith and is easily digestible. He’s not throwing word salad to try to seem intelligent, he’s usually straightforward and not weasley. I dig that.
🤦🏾♂️ Imagine losing a debate to Destiny without him being there.
Lmao!
Well, Destiny is a woman's name after all. These sweaty nerds didn't stand a chance.
I read your name as Lehlongwang
@@LMstan1989 😂You wouldn’t be the first to have that experience.
I commend President Sunday for pursuing a streaming career despite his severe lack of charisma.
No charisma, self awareness, humility, benefit to society, or testicles.
"Lack" doesn't even feel like the right word because it implies that there's an amount of potential charisma he could develope at some point in the future. To me, it's more like a *void* of charisma. You know, like a singularity of trite pretention.
Are we sure he isn't just Vaush?
He's letting his Philip Seymour Hoffman voice do all the heavy lifting with nothing to go along with it.
LOL this is a good comment
I'm 30 minutes in and these guys have said absolutely nothing except that they don't like his writing style, he dictated it, and that he's been writing it for 4 years. For people who were so smug about how wrong all the content is they are taking forever to actually get to a point. Jesus these people love to hear themselves talk even more than Vaush, this is painful.
Yep.
It sure got more substantial though.
Glad it wasn't just me. I was waiting and waiting for them to make a single argument, or even something resembling a point. Just lots of empty words, smug laughter and character assassination with nothing to back it up. Watching them eventually try to struggle through a criticism, it was painfully obvious they were clutching at straws. Are these academics?
I was literally just thinking the exact same thing at 31m and was gonna comment the same thing. They've said nothing lol.
"I thought he was smart but clearly he's not." = nothing burger.
When people have something legitimate, they get to the point. When a criticism drags in this way, it should signal to you that it's not valid. They're padding time to make it look like serious allegations when in actuality they have nothing or very minute criticisms.
As a Ph.D student in Physics, these people embody everything I hate about academics. Insecure men being pedantic about style and formal definitions of things, even though it's exactly clear what you mean. Then have virtually no criticisms of the content, but want to keep asserting they're "smart" and you're not because of irrelevant things like punctuation.
These guys were exactly like some undergrad math classmates of mine (I majored) and they actually are the worst people. I remember a group setting in Analysis where two guys were steamrolling me and the other people, sorta debating each other back and forth in "notationese" even though we'd literally just learned the words until finally someone asked a super basic question that revealed a solution to the proof. Just feels like some smart-ish people with poor social skills lean hard into hyper gatekeeping their disciplines, even when they actually are far less competent than they present.
From my experience in academia, this only gets worse the more politicized a topic becomes. It’s especially bad regarding things like popgen and intelligence research.
The thing that always comes to mind for me is people not passing oral exams cause of how they are dressed
I’m not quite sure you can be exactly clear what you mean in physics without *formal* definitions. Or perhaps I am misinterpreting “exactly” to mean something more like “perfectly” or “completely.” I agree that physics is worth doing even without that clarity, and that the need for it is often unnecessary. I come at this as a physicist turned mathematician/philosophy double major turned mathematician, though, so perhaps it was my inability to understand informal things that was at fault.
@@PartiallyIdentified I don't think they're smart at all tbh. They have this sort of autistic hyperfocus into specific "skills" and then completely lack anything outside of that in terms of their analysis and communicative abilities.
Rem is an actual intelligent one. He can actually listen, parse out whats being said, give feedback, and have a fruitful enough conversation with someone whether they're a layman or not.
>Destiny says something
>President says "Well no actually something something semantics"
>Destiny adds details to fit this semantic caveat
>President says well yes I know we agree but did you consider how this may be perceived
Homie goes so far out of his way to avoid substantive discussion.
its cuz his gripe is wholly devoid of any detectable substance
@@saheerumar2443 these people are entirely ideological, what we witnessed was simply posturing to promote, not a genuine attempt at criticism.
It got so bad in the last 20 minutes holy shit
My god yes, especially the last 4th.
Watch his Doomer debate it's one of the most painful things Iv ever listened to.
Jesus, they so want Destiny to be wrong they will deny every single individual statement or point, regardless of whether it's actually right or wrong.
Midwits, people with semi high IQ tend to argue in the moment, they simply try and find flaws in the argument, even if they agree with it. To them, it's not about truth, it's about winning the argument. Half the time they don't even understand their own ideology.
I mean if it's wrong they'd be right to deny it. But yeah they'd definitely begin fapping to the idea how the sky is green if Destiny said it was blue.
Is Destiny never wrong in your eyes?
@@ViolentSmoker no. Why is he always wrong in yours?
@@cdubsb3831 What issue do you believe he's wrong about?
He bases his worldview on some misguided vision he has of "normalcy", but that doesn't make him "always wrong", unless one gets rather reductive.
President Sunday is was what people imagine a person that lives on Reddit looks like
You ever watch the movie Happiness (I'm NOT recommending it)?
He looks like the phone creeper from that movie.
@@Saint_Sigismund lol
and sounds like
Someone tell him that drinking water in a wine glass doesn't make him look cool.
He’s got really bad autism voice
I'm a 21 year old grown man and I just watched a man with a girls name place thousands of dirtblocks in Minecraft for an hour straight.
This is funnier just imagining you having the sound turned off and you're only watching it for the minecraft dirtcraft.
@@railroadbluesy2169 based
So I guess President Neckbeard knows how to act like a proper human when he's not performing for his audience, I don't know if that makes it worse or better though.
I am was hoping he would call Destiny milady, like Erudite but that would require him to not be a misogynist neck beard. XD
No hes just psychotic
Lol true
@@jeromyzx153 he never said milady he said madam
@@env0x wow that makes it a lot better.
One of my favourite Terry Davis quotes is "An idiot admires Complexity. A genius admires simplicity." These guys all absolutely love complexity.
based
Sounds like a wise man, I wonder if he has any good advice regarding employees of government agencies
@@-47- "If they glow, they must go!"
Lol. There probably needs to be some context for that quote to work.
Terry Davis was truly a Plato of our times.
You've gotta have ice in your veins or be completely psychotic to exist in the streamer world. Idk how some of these people act so confident and above everyone else
@@Fritztafer Not if you go outside regularly lol. Being a debate lord doesn't mean much to someone just trying to mind their business and pay their bills.
@@Fritztafer I haven't spoken to a single person who doesn't already have a little bit of that in them. That said, I am a college student, so there might be a bit of a selection bias there.
dont lie, everyone for all of time have acted like they are above everyone else. The people who truly are, dont act that way is the difference
@@cassetteo absolutely not, there's a huge difference. The internet culture around streaming is insanely disconnected from anywhere I've been before. Part of it is just being a public figure, but also it's being online for 8hrs a day, it totally changes how people view each other.
Inflated sense of self-importance due to never leaving the house.
Imagine someone on the online left scoffing at the idea of remembering things people did that was bad and holding them to account years later
My house is made of gold. 10 million dollars and I can't remember the past...I just see cheddar.
@@js280608 fortunately for both of us, I CAN remember the past and that's actually MY house. I asked you to look after it for me while I was away on business, you must have hit your head on the gold toilet and lost your memory.... Anyway you can leave now
@@Saint_Sigismund meow
@@js280608 Cats give you brain parasites and drive an entire species of bird to extinction every year.
Holding a grudge, you used a lot of unnecessary words
you could tell me destiny is just reusing the same minecraft stream in the background for the past 10 videos and id believe you
Bruh he just jumps back and forth in that small area
The fact that they spent the first half hour questioning the fucking sentence structure shows that they went into this with no strong arguments to lead with and (more than likely) no strong arguments at all. And they want to attack Destiny for his use of time omegalul
The worst part is that they most likely have no self-awareness how blatantly bad faith and pedantic they are being. To give him some modicum of credit, Vaush (I think it was) realized it a bit but the M'Lady guys were really lost in the vitriolic sauce.
Edit: President Sunday, Not vaush
@@Dog3D right like, “allow me to meticulously dismantle the unrelenting arrogance present in Destiny’s suboptimal ability to construct such a manuscript. (with alacrity)”
Yeah I was so freaking confused, why is he reviewing the writing like we're sitting in an english class or whatever. And later when it comes to the actual content they're like "This is so dumb, I don't believe I don't get into the why." Like common you had the time and "patience" to correct the form for half an hour but just stumble half hazardly through the actual content...
Right. I can honestly say I’ve never seen someone be so pedantic and I’m not even exaggerating.
And then, when Sunday comes onto the stream, his whole position was "You can do your thing without tearing down the left leaning activists you disagree with" which... was _exactly_ what his stream was, he was tearing down destiny because he disagrees with him.
The point of the manifesto went right over these guys' heads. It wasn't to point out the people who slighted him, it was to outline their hypocrisy and inconsistencies in their retelling of these stories
let them cope. i am done with vaush/lefties and their cringe garbage
it did not go over their heads. they agree with their behavior because they believe in living a double standard within society and excluding themselves from the group that is held to different standards. They are aware of their actions. They just support it and have no intention of engaging with the concept because they do not believe that they should be challenged on it. what actually goes over dems heads is federal corruption can not be ignored because the politicians in question should be held to a different standard than those who "oppose" trans rights. People honestly think they can maintain they are the victimized class, and their political opposition are privileged while the deep state manufacture's lies to benefit this so call "victimized class" something something 50 intelligence officials claim hunter bidens laptop is Russian disinfo.... If I had a nickel every time a democrat admitted a trending national story that made maga looked bad was not real. I would have 0$ Even after they used said story are a cudgel to insult someone who would opposed their deeply dishonest political movement.. the sad bit, if the color of my skin was darker these people would be much more likely to listen.. They even directly say as much in the same sentences where they denounce their opposition as the racists.
It’s also a clearing of the air amongst the cloud of rhetoric that tend to be blown his way.
well to these people, ideological hypocrisies is the same as a “slight” or even a “troll”, when in reality its indicative of a much more serious problem as the D-man points out
@@SHITSWEEEK
Didn’t he have a whole follow up video that outlined the actual proof of his claims?
"destiny, why are you critical of online trans activists?"
"because people have started saying trans women and cis women are biologically the same"
"but nobody says that"
"actually they do, here's an example"
"but destiny, trans women and cis women are the same biologically"
this happens in this conversation over and over again. his only context to the conversation he's having is only 1 sentence deep, he doesn't even realize he's giving counter arguments to his own arguments from 2-3 sentences prior because he's too focused on disagreeing at all cost, all while providing zero evidence for any of the general claims he's making about destiny's community.
another example
destiny: no i disagree, i think universities have historically been more left-leaning than the general population
president sunday: that's not true, they were only left-leaning relative to that period of time!
he managed to somehow disagree with a statement by making the exact same statement.
@@grantmoe9535 actually those two statements mean very different things.
@@darthmercur3067 How so?
I have no idea how Destiny treats people who interrupt him, directly mischaracterize his views, speaks vitriolically behind his back only to act kinder in person, be unable to comprehend their own hypocrisy, with respect and patience. Props
It's not because they deserve it, obviously. It's because the topic, and possibly even the listeners may deserve it. Is my guess, anyhow. This is very useful to keep in mind because; it helps to de-personalize the whole process, and makes keeping that all-important cool so much easier.
It’s because destiny realizes the guy was just making content, just as he has done 1000 times before. People often talk bad like that and act that way for drama and entertaining content and then they will pretend to be offended, get on discord and have a talk and rake in the money. Don’t buy into it. It’s a show
You forget he's been doing this for the better half of a decade. This guy being a bit snide and bad faith is nothing compared to how people have spoken about him throughout the years
@@jeppab5145 or how he has spoken to people over the years ;)
It's simply just practice. The dude has done probably hundreds of debates, panels, discussions, etc. by now, so he's pretty well-versed in dialogue.
President Sunday managed to have the personality of an edgy narcisssistic 15 year old while in his 20s, an impressive feat
He's still in his 20s? He looks and sounds far beyond that
@@thesovgc I assumed he was in his late 30s
What does this guy even stream about? I cant imagine he does hasan/vaush type punditry. He's constantly sighing like he's capable of streaming something above this while simultaneously needing 4 other people to help him badly analyze the document (that they all spent 4 hours prereading).
No way, this dude is at least 35
That hairline says "at least 35"
The problem with President Sunday's position is that he already told us he wants Destiny to exercise careful bias favorable to leftists in order to achieve some kind of virtuous ideological goal. Anything he says from that point is literally worthless. Why would you even entertain a conversation with a person who just admitted their whole persona is insincere?
That's honestly a pretty reasonable perspective to have on engaging in politics and one that's pervasive to the point of basically being the default. If there's people who want bad things and other people who want good things, wouldn't it be reasonable to be at least somewhat more charitable to the people who want good things?
I will caveat that alot of, if not most, people take this too far especially if we're talking about pundits and other famous political operators, but I think nit engaging in some amount of reasonable bias based on your moral system seems alien to most people and also counterproductive generally. I also think you should still be open-minded enough to admit when people on your side say dumb shit or when people on the opposite side make good points, but I don't think that necessarily contradicts having a bias in favour of people who share your moral ideology.
@@Azraelmaximilian The issue is that for leftists of this breed, "people who want bad things" are "democrats that aren't as far left as me". These people can't even recognize the difference between democrats and republicans in terms of badness, and there's multiple things they want that are bad themselves (widely varying depending on specific breed). I see no reason why the mouth frothing cannibal who wants to genocide half the country and put half the remainder into reeducation camps to induct them should be treated with more good faith than the white nationalist on the opposite side.
If all it took was "at the end of the way, these people generally have good intentions and want some goal that makes people happy" to warrant being especially charitable towards them, then that's a meaningless goal because *everyone* wants that, they're just dumb about how to get to that point.
@@Azraelmaximilian That just makes it sound like a more convoluted version of what the OP said. I lean toward left policies and institutions because they seem like the best. Because I think they are the best, I will argue for them and be biased towards them. That's still being sincere and honest.
Or I could be just reading this whole thing wrong.
@@Azraelmaximilian Being charitable towards people makes it easier to convince them of things. So if your aim is to solve problems, you should be the most charitable towards people who are in the way of solving those problems.
If you do the inverse, people who disagree with you will be less likely to change their minds.
“Vaush has a fortress, Sunday has a cathedral. What the fuck do we have guys” the Daliphate
The dankest dungeon?
A MOSQUE OBVIOUSLY
@@GKJusticar55 a Dasque
The Harem
@@pengwin_ We do not partake in that. The access is closed to us.
These guys: I didn’t read anything from it…
Also these guys before reading it: Yeah, this was poorly written and laughable.
The first 40 minutes are ontologically skippable.
As somebody who does VO part time, the guy who is OBSESSED with not understanding that conversational style exists in writing is frankly embarrassing. What a weird thing to get hung up on.
‘Embarrassing’ is the best overall descriptor for his analysis
@@haydens5321 It is not ''Embarrassing''
it is either be "overly clinically" or "Spiteful"
That's annoying and infuriating to listen to
Vaush's pseudo-intellectualism surpasses that of a 14 year old reddit atheist circa 2010
He gives me the vibe of a 12 years oldsky daddy Christ believer, conservative mgtow cu*k whose girlfriend leaves him for a black dude
Only difference is vaush is a leftist snd gay🤣
He has reached his full potential
Why would I believe in fairy tales?
I feel attacked and I agree
High praise for him. Careful to not stroke his ego. Lol
Destiny, it would be pointless to talk to this guy again. He says a lot without saying much. He will continue to say that "we can never really know" no matter how much you present to him. The real question is: does he apply this level of skepticism to all things? He didn't when you guys were talking about the Trans issue. From the position he took with regard to presenting things to kids, he would have to be against speaking to them about Trans issues to be consistent.
I love how Doctor Sunday can read the minds of the masses.
Because the possibility exists of harm, you must not do that thing. Guess you have to stay in your house forever to prevent all that possible harm you can cause by living your life.
This is what pisses me off about him. Acts like he's some philosopher king while the rest of us are drooling barbarians that will pillage the lands if a smiling man says so. I hope some day someone he looks down on completely shatters his ego and every video of him cause cringe induced pain.
@@onionfarmer3044 platonian philosophy at it's finest.
He also does exactly the same thing of which he's criticizing Destiny. He keeps saying 'you don't have to tear down the left activists you disagree with' and then... does a stream where he tears down destiny, someone on the left, that he disagrees with.
What about all the harm you're causing by not _leaving_ your house?
@@Saint_Sigismund your right. All those women will go unsatisfied and they'll start fires to feel some ture warmth.
President Sunday's friend sounds like Tales of Two Tails. Anyone know if that's him? This is the guy that paired up with Serfs to debate Lauren on mass graves. And both Serfs and this guy came off as total idiots.
Yes, he sounded so familiar and I was wondering why I recognized the voice. I believe that is him.
That's what I just wrote! Sounds a lot like him.
I think it is him. Imagine losing a debate to lauren and still being this smug.
@@xeroeddie Well now we know where he's been hiding all this time. I need more bad takes from him! :)
Lol...I love how in this video he claims he "doesn't talk about issues he doesn't know anything about"
I'm really starting to hate this victim mindset. How is he getting upset at destiny for wanting to engage with the people who criticized him? Jfc can there be no pushback. Their narratives are just supposed to go unchallenged?
Yup, most of them think they are beyond reproach yet can barely defend their own side. They often only attack which screws them over, look at how all the people that attacked Destiny are lunatics...
It was an almost real time example of the punching up example Destiny gave and the guy jumped in on a chat and proved him right.
Exactly.
If your authortian any criticism against the regime or the cathedral is a crime against humanity in there eyes. They get to be in charge your supose to shut up and obey.
It's not a victim mindset. It's like some weird paternal savior complex these people have with any group they deem as marginalized. They aren't acting like a victim they are acting like some kind of religious police where they get to hold people accountable if they are directly or indirectly "harming" the group they have appointed themselves to protect.
"none of us here are credentialed experts in any of these fields"
Favorite quote of the video
As someone who actually has a degree in some of this stuff, that's when I immediately knew they were just trying to sound smart and had no idea what they were actually saying.
@@pannkeki8940 Yeah I’m pretty sure in terms of actual education PS studied political science, but he just reads a lot of philosophy on the side so it’s sort of like an invested hobby as opposed to a formal education.
Oh and the "Do I even have to say why this is wrong? You said you are a little rusty, can you go over why this is wrong?" To be this picky while also not saying so little actual criticism is truly a special skill. And then to also throw the new guy under the bus at the same time. Masterclass, perfectly done.
"My subreddit shuts off problematic opinions."
Yeah he missed the Euro-American war over the Romanis.
right in my feed
I enjoyed how they were mocking Destiny of pretending to be intelligent, but throughout their debate that’s all they were doing. Seemed like they were stretching the underlying text way too much.
You can tell he cares soooo much about how smart he looks. He judges people's value based off of how smart they seem to him.
My God, Sunday is an utterly insufferable person. The only thing that surpasses his complete lack of charisma is the light-less void where his self-awareness would normally reside.
"Insufferable", for pushing your favorite champion streamer a bit on a few topics, you kids are seething trough space here. lol
@Coffee Pot I have never heard of this guy and I'm no fan of destiny but the first few minutes I heard him talk he is absolutely insufferable in everyway.
@@randybobandy9828 Kinda liiiiiiikkeee..... Stevano'?. . a little bit?, no?.
@@coffeepot3123 what
@@coffeepot3123 nah I disagree with destiny on things sometimes. I'm not a stan for anybody. I just sincerely cannot stand Sunday
these people are 1000% more undeservingly arrogant than they claim he is
These guys completely lost me when they started criticising your writing style. Destiny wasn't writing an academic paper. He was writing an internet manifesto. Who cares? When someone picks apart something like writing style, when it's not relevant to the topic. This is just something they can dig at. Also, as a fiction writer, I write specifically the way people talk all the time to make the writing read more naturally. To dig on them, they've probably never read the Elements of Style.
They have sophomoric takes.
I think they're just putting Destiny on a pedestal in order to knock him down.
You know the saying "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? They're making Destiny bigger in their heads in order to try to make him fall harder.
Some content is different I guess.
Nah, as a massive light novel addict you can read the lowest level of writing style and think it is normal but once you listen to regular books you relise the writting is at the level of a 10 year old. I have gone from years of reading novels to years of reading light novels and now starting back at novels and my conclusion is yes light novels are the easiest to understand but it is also torture on the highest level.
The best stories i have read were only consumable by years of looking in filther places for a high and getting accustom to the dirt mixture. Like thoses stories I think it is ok to criticise the writing Style even tho its very accessible
Yeah, I mean I disagree. I don't think writing style matters as much when trying to provide information to a wide audience. Does the information get across? Yes? Good. Them criticizing the style is just to find something to dig at. At that point they'd barely even engaged with the text yet and made up their minds.
Sunday will literally appeal to uncertainty and need for more data infinitely if the current information is going against his hypothesis
I'm just shocked he watched the whole thing. Imagine hating somebody, but watching them for 7 hours straight LOOOOOOOOL!!!!
@@GloriainMorte President Sunday watched destiny manifesto which was 7 hours long.
Sunday doesn't hate Destiny, he said he thinks Destiny is personable
@@Mrraerae oh ok
@@Mrraerae I hate lots of very personable, charismatic people. Those don't contradict each other
@@Saint_Sigismund he clearly doesn't hate Destiny though, he just disagrees with some stuff that Destiny does. Big difference
I've never listened to such succinct examples of the Dunning Kruger effect before.
It's like watching that episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia where Charlie thinks he's a genius because he took a pill that was supposed to make him smarter.
“Dumb people are always blissfully unaware of how dumb they really are.” - Patrick Star
16:45 this is the epitome of ivory tower thinking. He's mad because people are trying to explain academic or philosophical ideas in a way that is accessible to a mass audience. The only people who should be allowed to explain this are professors who have spent years studying it, and the only people they should be allowed teach it to are ones who are willing to spend years learning it. Everyone else just doesn't get to learn the word "ontology" or whatever else.
49:30
"Poisons the well with an upfront conversation."
Honestly couldn't help but laugh when he said that. How on earth is having a conversation with someone and allowing them to give their point of view and discuss it "poisoning the well"?
The word “poisoning the well” naturally comes with a ton of negative connotations but that is what he is doing. You can call it “framing the discussion” if you want but the idea is that you are telling your audience what to think before you even get into the discussion. This biases them right out of the gate, hence “poisoning the well”
It’s not a good or bad thing but it is what you are doing when you do what destiny did or when you make an opening statement in a debate.
@@mrmr2488 have you ever written a persuasive essay? This is how it's done. Like I don't know about you, but literally every essay of the dozens upon dozens I wrote in middle school and highschool were supposed to be structured this way.
@@yung_bonsai re-read what I said. I’m not knocking destiny or saying he is wrong for doing it but that is what’s being done. Poisoning the well is just a charged word to use but it still does technically work. As I said, I would just call it “framing the argument”
@@yung_bonsai true. No poison.
@@mrmr2488 This idea of Destiny "poisoning the well" sounds like it's rooted in postmodernism. It's impossible for Destiny to portray an accurate take of things because truth doesn't exist; anything he tries to lay out as an argument is necessarily a narrative, and thus "poisons the well" with his take of things. But that goes both ways, the criticism of his narrative is simply just another narrative, and you can roll with it if you want, but that means everybody who claims anything about anything is then "poisoning the well" with their take.
I personally think postmodernism is decaying our society, what a terrible ideology.
Funny how you can count on twitch streamers to react incredulously to effort being put into something. "He took a long time making this! It's like 130 pages! I can't believe it. Also Destiny is so wrong and stupid that I can't articulate how that's the case in even a half hour of rambling."
Hell 130 isn't even a lot, in my AP classes in highschool 10ish years ago I had multiple 50 essays a quarter. Fucking wrote less in university
The whole speel about you using a phrase correct or incorrect and then backtracking once they realized you were attempting to use the colloquial version as a base for uses elsewhere was quite funny. They went from oh he is just wrong to "oh well in that case why didn't he just say it simpler" 😂😂
schpiel
Wow. This guy interrupts Destiny repeatedly throughout this whole convo. Then has the audacity to rudely cut him off and say "I've learned your power, I can interrupt you". Guy needs to rewatch this and see how long he rambles on for. Wild. No self awareness.
I came away from this video thinking Destiny's manifesto was much stronger and better laid out than the first time I went through it.
Can’t believe it took 20 min for them to discuss his use of the term “etc” before analyzing anything he has written at all. This is hilarious as fuck, it sounds like Vaush’s long lost brothers all stroking their beards and dusting their fedoras.
Why do I feel the need to fart into a wine glass and smell it, while listening to smooth jazz when I listen to them speak?
This guy is exhausting. It feels like he never says anything you can prove/disprove and if he does, he just jumps away from it immediately when you call him out
President Sunday talks like he has a mouthful of cake
fatter vaush
😆😅🤣😂🤣😅😆
This was like listening to an alien conference call about destiny’s manifesto
I love how much time and effort they put in to make sure people know how little they care about this. Yet they know all the chapters and contents. They keep catching themselves and use lines line "oh i saw a screenshot of it" or "i accidentally came across it". I just need people to know how little i care. Now let's start this entire panel i put together to go over this thing that i definitely don't care about. Did i mention how boring this is? Alright, let's start the panel off with sn hour long discussion about his writing style and if we think he typed this out or used dictation. He may have even written it in paper first. Do you think he used pen or a pencil? That opens up a whole new subject of whether he used an eraser or not.
Also, there's something i wanted to discuss after reading page 74 paragraph 3. Oh i mean someone accidentally showed me a screenshot and told me what page it was on. Also could we be as quiet, slow, and monotone as possible?
Destiny, you have 100% and without a doubt brought me closer to the middle. I’m from a small town in Tennessee and was born in the mid 80s. Trans people have always been associated with severely disturbed sexual predators and/or freak shows in general. Over the past year or two you’ve opened my eyes to a lot. It’s true that people like Vaush or Demon Mamma do nothing but push me further away. It’s been a journey. And honestly without you I don’t think I would have ever been swayed at all.
Middle TN?
@@novac1990 dead center of Tennessee.
There's so much smug in that talk I thought I was in a Reddit thread
President Sunday isn’t capable of not sounding like a pretentious prick
Gotta love the elitism: How dare amateurs talk about things like ontology?! They aren't allowed! This fundamental subject that impacts everyone is just allowed to be addressed by professional philosophers! Idiots.
The existence of something is "existential" not ontological...
Destiny literally could said “nitpicking and biased I win bye bye” and he would have been right
Dunkey, the best.
Oh, it's that tool President Sunday.
This video helped me have an epiphany about one of my issues with the left.
One of the biggest issues the left is facing currently is the constant expectation to treat all information with some form of intellectual kid gloves.
I understand this is an attempt to avoid useful misinterpretation that can be used for bad actors. The issue is they will do it anyway. And they will do it even if you plaster the words "I do not endorse racism of bigotry" all over it.
He keeps saying I understand and then continuing to not understand.
“I am a student of dialectics, the art of finding the truth, thus believing nothing” - Voltaire
The hypocrisy is that they're claiming that Steven talks on things he doesn't know, yet they're talking on Steven, whom they clearly don't know.
For an intellectual, Admiral Sunday sure takes a long time to say "Friend good, enemy bad".
1st dude: "How long did it take him to write this?"
DGG: "FOREVER"
President Sunday: “it’s preposterously long”
Also President Sunday: does an almost 4 hour stream on it with no structure
As someone who watches most of Destiny's content, there is not a single second I have considered watching Nick's or Lauren's content seperatly anywhere. They are still insufferable, since no one else can even slightly rein them in.
"No one begins writing a sentence, 'Well, people debate...' That's not a sentence people write." Some people actually do write the way they talk. Some people like David Foster Wallace made an art form of it. This is why he -- a master of grammar -- routinely began sentences with, "And but so..." I love people who are so smart they're stupid. Another phenomenon DFW spilled a lot of ink exploring.
@@mutedmutiny9542 - Correct. Anyone who’s ever seen The King and I says, “Etcetera. Etcetera. Etcetera.” But again, these guys are too smart to write the way people actually speak. I.e. accessibly.
You'd think a guy who prides himself on being well read would have heard of prose before.
This reminds me of the part during "The Hobbit" where the 3 trolls are arguing with each other and smacking each other with spoons, while arguing about how they are going to cook and eat the dwarfs/hobbits.
Destiny after listening to 12 minutes of vapid scoffing and patronizing laughs: "Man, I wonder what their criticism is gonna be 'Uhhhhh, at least Destiny's smart, except for now I see he's not'."
Guy literally 15 seconds later: "Ya, the most surprising thing about all of this is I used to think Destiny was like a grounded, intelligent, quick witted person but...."
Please tell me that wasn't a pre-watch 😂😂😂
I like both these guys...sundays vitriol and dry delivery is highly entertaining...
These guys have the Vaush I smell my own farts voice, and they're just dripping with fedora energy. Btw anybody who says "people spend entire life terms learning 'x' so you cant discuss this topic without basically admitting that you're mostly wrong because you can't claim to be an expert" are just coping so hard. They do know we live during a time where there's the internet, right?
Yeah maybe back in the day it might take you years to fully grasp something, because everything (especially academic subjects) were so insanely compartmentalized that you would have to sift through 500 page books just to construct a basic understanding. Not only that, you had to figure out which books to read, and you had to source them yourself, which was a task unto itself. This is where academia was very useful because you had people who could walk you through all of the pertinent material.
With the internet, we not only have instant access to information, there are also millions of people who spent years learning this stuff, and have sifted through this information, and these people have taken time out of their day to distill this information to its core points, something you would've had to have done yourself, and is something which yes, would probably take years.
This is the beautiful thing about the internet. Years worth of knowledge and understanding can be yours in a matter of weeks, maybe months. There are tons of resources, essays, summaries, you name it. You can get a fairly good working knowledge of literally anything in a very short amount of time. You can easily look up a book list, listen to a podcast, or read someone's comprehensive overview.
You definitely don't need to go to school and spend years learning ontology to be able to discuss it, or have a good understanding of it. To say otherwise is basically to say you're too much of an idiot to take advantage of the massive leap forward that was the internet.
It doesn't need to be complex guys. We work towards making things less complex and easier to grasp. Idiots admire complexity, geniuses admire simplicity--Terry Davis
This really encouraged me to pursue my hobbies, even if they change. I didn’t know where the hell to start & thought I had to pick one thing, dig my heels in, & crawl through it for years to even begin to understand what I’m talking about.
You reminded me I’m making excuses to avoid beginning. Thanks for taking the time to comment! I’m happy to have read it.
@@autorka1001 Hobbies are always worth pursuing if they interest you and wont put you into financial debt because of one simple fact. Its not about being the best at something, its about being better at something than you thought possible for yourself. If that's 1st in state for RC car racing or just that you got a single track's time down by 1 second that's been like that for 10 years and no one else has improved, or if its as simple as even beating your friend at something they usually always beat you in.
Sorry but saying that by reading some stuff on internet you can grasp an argument like an academic that studied it for years is the very foundation of the dunning kruger effect
@@gehrig7593 maybe I didn't word it right or maybe you're misunderstanding. I'm not saying Joe Schmoe skimming a fucking Wikipedia article is going to be able to go toe to toe with a tenured professor. Obviously not.
What I am saying is that if you put in the effort and if you have the capacity, you could definitely get a great understanding of any subject you wish, Obviously it takes years to cultivate a very deep understanding to the point where you could write a great essay on a topic or something, but to say youre just not able to understand anything as good as someone who goes to school for a topic is some gatekeeping academic cuckoldry
@@jackorlove4055 yeah I think you've misspoken. For example, when you say things like "maybe back in the day it would take you years to fully grasp something" .
There's a weird that's happened to knowledge since our engagement with the internet. In a lot of ways were more educated but we don't read as many books anymore. There's something gained, something lost.
The music is the funniest shit thank you mr editor LMAOO
Shoulda named the manifest “Manifest Destiny”
Manifestiny
After all of this back and forth one thing is for certain. It is very interesting to see how Destinys castle is slowly coming together during all these videos.
Does this guy not know that there is recorded history of everything he said?
Somebody PLEASE send President Sunday a video on how to eliminate white noise getting picked up. Jesus. That hum in the back drove me nuts
As a Ph.D student in Physics, I should probably care more about my studies than these neckbeard internet intellectuals.
Ayy procrastination gang. Should be writing my thesis, but here i am 😭
This was so weird to me, because this dude legit sounds like Vaush back when he went by IrishLadie
This dude the epitome of “I need to use big words to sound smart” but saying nothing at all.
1:00:18 I love how off-guard that discord call got him that he actually flinched
kind of insane to start with ‘is this even worth going over?’ then reading the first sentence and spending 5 minutes speculating every possible way it could have been written
1:58:00 I literally only write like this. I just dictate my own voice as I think aloud and alot of times I keep it in a conversational tense. I keep the syntax positioned in a way to lend to a cadence and certain emphasism to lend the read in how they hear the sentence when they read it. What's wrong with that? Probably why people say I need better grammar. 🤣
Really enjoyed this conversation.
I like August labeling these as debates.
@president sunday another instance where, before you talk to destiny...you mention being ill..
I actually think president Sunday displayed a more than acceptable amount of good faith in the conversation here at least in comparison to what i expected. I think he's genuinely interested in hearing Destiny in his positions and making an attempt to change his mind or understand why they disagree. I think he has very strong political leanings that might make that difficult, or make changing his mind difficult, but I look forward to their next conversation in a more structured format. I'm hoping he'll bring the same energy in their potential upcoming conversation and not try to reach for slam dunks the whole time.
I see president Sunday as kinda unlikeable in his personality ESPECIALLY after seeing his conversation with Not So Erudite, but he's clearly decently intelligent and willing to hear why Stephen feels the way he does and is behaving the way he has been in regards to leftism and the political culture around it.
Good conversation.
I'm in college and I'm not the best writer, econ major here. But I write very closely to how I talk bc I want to appeal to ppl thru a familiar sense. If people can read my work, say it out load, and relate to that manner of phrase, It feels more personal and persuasive to me. Also dictations come out insanely bad, like I did one junior year of high school and it was shit but it was due the next day
If I was grading this comment I'd tell you to bring me your *final draft* tomorrow.
@@Saint_Sigismund fuck time for text to speech
Great video keep up the awesome videos!
BORED VOCAL FRY INTENSIFIES
Aw shit, here we go again.
It's like they've been told "get a life" their entire life and they think now is their time to say it themselves lmao. Dark camera guy reeks of cathartic projection.
The conversation became somewhat productive by the end. Looking forward to the next conversation.
The way P Sun talks down on Destiny’s “lack of intelligence” while every single person watching knows Destiny would run circles around him, would be entertaining if his speech wasn’t literally audio chloroform.
they are right about ontology, it does not have to do with classification, it has to do with being. The ontology of things can be classified, and in order to study ontology classifications must be made, but ontology itself precedes classification
They were wrong about just about everything else though
Heh, man Destiny is just so wrong about stuff. Like not only is he wrong about everything, he's not right about any of it either. It really is hilarious how arrogant he is being so wrong about stuff but thinking he's right. Like some people spend years trying to be right about something when Destiny thinks he can be right about it in a few paragraphs. Meanwhile he's just so wrong about all of the things he tries to portray himself as being right about. The wrongness of Destiny's arguments unfortunately however tend to be overshadowed by the 3-star general level debate strategies he uses to appear rhetorically correct about his positions while just being wrong. People like us tend to be right about mostly everything we talk about unlike Destiny who is shameless in his unrelenting mission to say wrong things pretending to be right. And this manifesto truly encapsulates hilariously just how wrong Destiny is about all of the things he tries to talk about. alright i'm bored now
The paused President Sunday look in the top right of most of this video is my reaction to this conversation
How much of a brainlet do you have to be to assert that a manifesto's biggest shortcoming is its lack of comedy?
A manifesto, by definition, is a prescription.
It is a policy position.
It is among the most essentially dry pieces of literature a person can produce by its very design.
He immediately lost any credibility the second he criticized the writing style.
President Sunday is right about the ancedotes and how they have a flaw in that we don't always have the full context. Something more concrete would be useful, so looking forward to the follow-up!
"destiny pls make the arguments for the people you hate"
"But I hate them"
"destiny pls"
my favorite part is where Professor Saturday and Friends get mad at sentence structure, which is objectively fine and readable