I'd like to disagree with you: The F1 (offspring of two "stable" parents), aka simple cross, is very stable with no real detectable differences. So stable, it's as dependable in phenotype as an OP. The reason why there are so many hybrids is because seed companies do not need to patent/PVP the variety. All they have to do is keep the "stable" parents secret and cross to get that same exact "Big Beef" or "Bella Rosa" F1 hybrid. The diversity STARTS in the F2--selfing the F1. That's when you'll want to grow out lots of plants. This is what I do (am a breeder): In a simple cross, I cross two stable parents, grow 5 or so F1 plants. More plants is a waste of time and a person needs to be educated on it to prevent that waste of time should they desire to breed vegetables. I self the F1 plant that's the most vigorous. That seed is F2 and I grow out a whole lot of that seed. I'm growing 100 F2 plants now of what I'm explaining. F2 is where the action is and where the main selection should be. At F2, you are 75% stability of what you see (phenotype) in each individual plant. Select one (or many in my case) of those F2 plants that are the best out of all those plants. Each selfing afterwards solidifies the stability by 50% until F7/F8 (debatable) when it's so-called stable (OP) or greater than 99.9% (ish) stable. We could get into double-hybrid crosses, hybrid-OP crosses, and more. In those cases, F1s will have some diversity because the parents weren't "stable". I like those types of crosses in my work too. It's notable to also say that lots of desired recessive genes show up the highest in F2 at roughly 25%. Mendel discovered this with peas some time ago. So, recessive genes express 0% in F1, 25% in F2, 12% in F3 and so on. But, the magic is when they do, they are immediately stable from F2-OP. An example is potato leaf vs regular leaf. If you see a potato leaf at F2, it will be there every generation after if selfed. Colors other than red are recessive (in degrees). My parthenocarpic tomato gene is recessive. At F3 and later, the chances of getting that elusive recessive gets much harder. Too hard really to consider. Recessives are awesome. I'm just putting this out there in case you, or anyone who reads this and may be interested in breeding, will have some clarification. My opinion on OPs are that the taste profiles were the focus of almost all of their breeding for a very long time which is why they have such a following...including me. I always use OPs to inject better taste profiles. The focus for most hybrids is disease resistance, plant structure (processing), and to a smaller degree taste. Ag-guys know what sells. Bottom dollar you know. Edit: I've tried and trialed most of the hybrids you show. I like one of them compared to tons of heirloom/OPs out there, but you are right, there's a sacrifice in production or disease pressure quite often.
Very interesting! I think plant breeding would be cool to do. I just bought a Burpee Hybrid zucchini plant and saw other plants at the store listed as hybrid or as F1 (like some kale). I decided to stay away from them because I wasn't certain what that entailed. I understand the basics of genetics but I don't know the crosses and stuff the growers used, so how do I know what I'm getting? (Some of the Kalen plants were literally just labeled "F1 Kale.") I also want to save the seeds and wasn't sure if that would be wise with these hybrids. I thought that when plants cross-pollinated, the current plants aren't affected but seeds saved and grown the next year may not grow true, so they seemed like not the kinds of plants for me. Was I correct in this? I also wonder if nurseries offload their mishaps and unwanted plants on the unsuspecting people at the grocery store...
@@MadCheshireHat gmos are illegal still for public sale to much money being made on the patents . I’ve had no issues but one with hybrid seeds, I had one plant that wasn’t as tasty with my tomato’s I’ve used them for years until a few years ago when UA-camrs scared me away from hybrid as. If it’s gmo 🤦♀️ but in fact hybrid is cross pollination that nearly everyone has unless they grow only one type acres apart an the wind an the bees or insects etc can’t cross pollinate it will be a hybrid
The price of hybrid seed for everything is very expensive the past few years. There are heirloom varieties that will do well in more challenging zones. We need to support our farmers who grow out and maintain the open pollinated varieties for genetic diversity, the ability to save your own seed and not have to rely on the companies who will shortly take over control of seeds. If your heirlooms cross pollinate you just might end up with some good strong seed that does well in your climate.
Preservation of heirlooms is imperative because more and more F1's are being propagated and if heirlooms are not grown with their seed collected and then sold on, seed companies are going to have total control over our the worlds seeds and therefore food supplies. Just look at what Monsanto have done to see into the future of what will happen if we do not keep the open pollinated seeds going.
To me the heirloom types have that great flavor I am looking for, I grow predominantly heirlooms, I grow the ones I like and being an heirloom would never stop me from growing heirloom
Heirloom is healthier, too. I recently watched a show where they tested the heirloom varieties and hybrid varieties and the heirloom have much higher nutrients. If I wanted a lower nutrient tomato with less flavor, I would just buy them at the grocery store.
@@aquaseahorselove3939 A tomato is a tomato buddy. They all have different concentrations of nutrients depending on the variety. There are heirlooms with lower nutritional value and hybrids with higher, and vise versa. Considering there are literally tens of thousands of different tomato types all over the world it's such a blanket statement to say "heirlooms are healthier". Go ahead and believe the "science" you saw on tv but the presenter was most likely just picking specific heirlooms with high nutrimental value and pitting them against hyrids on the other end of the spectrum.
another great video. my yields with heirloom tomatoes was always terrible. I also see a lot of confusion that people think cross pollination effects the fruit that first year when it only effects the seeds in that first year fruit.
Correct! It is the seed that is cross-pollinated. I have spent so much time suffering with heirlooms, as well. There are a couple I will still grow (mostly Brandywine Yellow and Arkansas Traveler), but there are so many good F1’s now that there isn’t much need to grow them anymore for most gardeners.
I love heirloom, but this year growing a mix w/ hybrid for production and canning. Actually I went back on your videos and found varieties I am excited to try. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. Have a great day
You're welcome! I'm glad some of the variety selections could be helpful. Hoss Tools have a lot of good variety selections, too, if you struggle with humidity and disease.
I grow my heirlooms for variety of color and flavor. I also have found many that do better for me than hybrids. I have to grow my tomatoes up at my dad's garden because our current house is in shade, but last year I grew San Francisco fog variety in my shaded yard and they ripened for me . It is not either or ... Not one Size fits all. Also saving heirlooms preserves traits we may need in a hybrid variety in the future. My dad and I grow both and I don't see a downside to either side of the fence.
If you have found heirloom varieties that do well in your area and you like them, keep growing them for sure. As I mentioned in this video, there are heirlooms that are well-adapted and vigorous and can do well for many growers, and some growers live in easier climates than others that can grow wider varieties of things. The point of this video is to explain the difference between heirlooms and hybrids, because many organic gardeners are biased against hybrids. This is a bad mentality, because having an anti-hybrid bias prevents new gardeners from having success. The way you entice new gardeners into the craft is to set them up for success, and you do that by recommending easy to grow varieties. For most, that will not be the most popular heirlooms. In summary, try many varieties and assess what does well for you. If they're heirlooms, hybrids or a mix of both, grow the ones you enjoy. Just don't struggle growing varieties that don't do well for you because of pressure from others.
Beverly Brown I agree with you both if not for the flavor I'd not bother growing a garden, I'm keeping my taste as my leader and am raising Brandywine and Big Brandy (Brandi ) and will test with a open mind .However Brad's Atomic Grape is a Hybrid that is our circle of people favorite and My favorite is a Heirloom Terracotta that I plan to have until I have a new favorite. This year I have 34 types under my grow lights and mostly Heirlooms, I do expect that hybrids can satisfy anyone that not reading labels. I'll post pictures later in the season about mid August
Excellent video. You're great at explaining somewhat complex or misunderstood concepts/ideas. Hybrids have gotten a bad name among some "organic" gardeners I know, and yet their tomatoes won't survive any type of pest pressure or adverse weather. Also the examples you give allows us as viewers to target some of those varieties, esp. when here in FL we get the extremes like you do. Thanks again! Jim
I'm happy to hear that! It's always frustrated me that some organic gardeners are down on F1 hybrids. F1 hybrids are how Mother Nature strengthens the species - it's the most natural thing. I don't understand how some growers can try and talk growers out of it. If you're a seed-saver, F1's aren't from you, but that's such a tiny portion of gardeners. The way you get people to start gardening is by making it easier, and F1 hybrids are much less challenging and more fruitful. Talking new gardeners into growing challenging heirlooms leads to gardeners quitting, and that's the last thing we want to see!
The strongest tomatoes that can grow im your garden are honestly the direct seeded or volunteer ones, in my experience self seeded plants are simply immune to pest pressure compared to transplants
Exceptional video. I’m trying Cherokee Carbon F1 this year but Sungold and big beef are the only two F1 tomatoes I normally grow. As good as Big Beef is, it isn’t as good as a mediocre true heirloom. But I grow it as a fail safe. Because it is. Sungold is in a league of its own so will always grow. . I’m also in a hot and humid area and fight EB every year. BTW, Sungold is actually very susceptible and struggles to make it to Fall. But how can you not grow heirlooms like Prue, KBX, Wes, CP, and BW Sudduth. Is t there best tasting tomatoes the goal here. I can by all the chef’s choice I can eat at the farmer’s market. If I had your setup. I would grow to a single vine 2 plants each of a different variety of heirloom. You would get loads of tomatoes that will make you weak kneed to eat. When they die from disease you’ll still have plenty tomatoes that haven’t. I grow 30 plants and keep my extended family and friends with tomatoes through September. Also, the art of selecting and saving seeds is a major part of the fun. Years down the road you could have Brandywine Millennial Garden Strain that people clamber for.
Anthony; your videos are just crazy good. You are incredibly efficient, knowledgeable, patient, thorough and openminded. I especially appreciate the way you stage your photoshoots across weeks and months to show the results of your projects; even the biggest gardening channels aren't that organized. Your skillset is so valuable I honestly wish I could download your brain into mine! My one quibble with your channel is your camera. Nikon rules, damn it! :)
Thank you! I really appreciate that. I'm an engineer by trade, so it's sort of my job to be organized. I genuinely love doing this, so staging the experiments over months to catch the results are fun. I have a no-till experiment in progress, a fig growing experiment in progress, and a few more tricks up my sleeve for the fall. Thanks for your support and generosity. I really appreciate it. As for the camera, I go with the Sony mirrorless, because the cameras are so small and compact. DSLR's are too big and heavy. My only qualm is the camera doesn't have internal image stabilization, and to go full-frame with the internal image stabilization is just way more than I could afford at the time. Maybe as the channel grows; I've already gone through 2 different cameras to upgrade the quality with growth 😄
@@TheMillennialGardener Aha; I knew you were a technical fellow. Most of the big gardening channels are run by people with degrees in like... music and political science (not to impugn those fine pastimes). You can tell in the way they approach horticultural pedagogy--too haphazard and disorganized. I'm telling you--you really have the best gardening channel on YT, and the material for an incredible book or other physical resource. Which got me to thinking; if you were to release all of your videos on a thumb drive as a "prepper" resource, I would happily pay for it, and so would a lot of other people. There's a huge amount of paranoia about the possibility of a "grid-down" situation, and a single resource that pulls everything together like your video playlist would be an incredible boon to those of us who are preparing for the worst. I've blown an insane amount of money on solar power, water purification, gardening tools and seed packs in advance of what may be coming. I'm a math/computer science guy myself, and a professional 3d animator among other things. I only mentioned Nikon because I've been using their cameras for a quarter century now, and they really are the best. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you. I'd be happy to craft a cool animated intro for the show as a piece of fan art if that would help the channel!
My approach is to start plants from seed, that do well in south FL. That way, they do great here in NC. Once I get what I like, I take cuttings around Halloween and overwinter them indoors. I can perpetuate clones this way, plus I have plants over four feet tall already (I only grow indies).
Very helpful information. I live in Wilmington, NC and have struggled to grow tomatoes. I get good production in the first few months, but when the heat and humidity hit, they take a major setback. I will try some of your recommendations
I live a couple hours north of you and have experienced the same thing. I start tomatoes in the house 2x each spring. I cover one of my raised beds with a plastic greenhouse and add heat with 5gal bucket and aquarium heater. I try to have the first tomatoes in 2 weeks before last frost date. I have later started plants incase my first attempt fails.
A few miles south of you & same story. Early summer burst of production then mid-summer decline. Living up north, late summer-autumn meant tons of tomatoes. I expected better here in the south, lots of sunshine & rain, but no - very disappointed. But learning that choosing the right tomato is everything. Some trial & error, but mostly advice from local fellow gardeners now. 👍
@@striperswiper1 Thanks for the tip. I am going to experiment this summer planting fast-growing determinant tomatoes indoors in Jully then translating outdoors in September
Tomato pollination will cease in most varieties when temps eclipse 90 in day and 70 at night. Basically, most tomatoes become sterile here early June through early September. All that will grow are cherry types and a handful of heat-bred selections, but with greatly reduced yields. We need to plant in late March here, protect them from frost and hand pollinate in April and May to have great harvests. This 2 videos will help you tremendously: ua-cam.com/video/x2zoorfpZ50/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/p-rlucSV1Oo/v-deo.html
Love this video! I will go ahead and say I grow heirloom because: - I want to save seed and know that it’s not sterile for seed independence - I want to know what kind of tomatoes I’ll get from the same seed
I’m growing hybrids, dwarfs, and some open pollinated (Burbank, Terracota, and Tomesol) that I received free. I’m looking forward to see which tomatoes do the best in our desert climate.
@@zia_kat I have Celebrity seedlings that I going to transplant later this month. I planted Early Girl last summer and the plants developed fruit early but took a long time to ripen and weren’t that good eating. Hopefully, Celebrity will do well here. I’m going to plant early this year and hopefully will have a better harvest. Thanks for the reply!
@@archstanton9703 everyone has different climate and soil conditions so grow what works best in your specific situation. for me celebrity is super flavorful but takes a bit more time to ripen than EG. EG ripened really quickly and was good but not quite as delicious as celeb but worth it for early salsas. i'm also def going to be trying some more hybrids that do well in our desert climate.
Thanks for explaining this. I like growing hybrids but it's not economical because I would like to be able to save seed. I guess I'll have to keep a couple packs of Heirloom seeds stashed in case times get too hard to purchase seeds again.
@@zia_kat that would take time and experimentation. If I would have had the foresight years ago, I may have perfected a few varieties for my particular area. Danny at Deep South Homestead did. But alas, after the Great Seed Shortage not more than 2years ago combined with the warnings of Climate changes,,,???
@@Shortcake39553 i kind of did it unintentionally with some cherry tomatoes by just neglecting volunteers that sprouted from my compost. they've been coming back for 5 years. i'm old but i still look at gardening as a long game endevor.
Great video. I have switched to growing mostly modern hybrids myself. And succession planting determinates makes up a big part of my tomato growing now. Tomato breeding programs have came a long way in the past 20 years. The flavor is every bit as good or better than a lot of heirlooms.
I agree. Tomatoes r tricky in my area of Texas. Heat is the enemy. I quit growing late season and heirlooms cause the bloom drops in the high humidity and heat. Not worth wasting the time, space and money.
@@beverlyboyce1041 determimate tomatoes are miles easier to grow in Texas, however in my experience it is possible to grow indeterminate tomatoes, but it is no walk in the park I'm afraid.
I throw veggie scraps during the winter into my garden patch. One spring I let a volunteer tomato plant grow to maturity. The fruit appeared to be an over-sized Roma. I harvested a few of them to see how they would taste. Well, they tasted like the men's restroom smells three days after a Led Zeppelin concert - not kidding...! They were horrible.. I should have saved some to give to the neighbors as a gag (no pun intended) gift.. 🙂
I hate cracks and hybrids tend to be less cracked 🙃 I got every chef's choice on your recommendation except I couldn't find orange. You had such good success with them last year that I decided to go for a successful year this year. Here's to a crackless summer!!!
Excellent explanation. I moved to Southeast Texas from Nebraska and it took a few years to understand that heirlooms don't grow well here. This year I'm growing Bella Rosa, Homestead, Rio Grande, and Floridade.
It's taken me several years to figure out how to grow tomatoes here, too. Growing them in NJ and PA where I used to live is a piece of cake by comparison, and boy do we struggle here with the summer rain. If you want to give two heirlooms a shot, try German Johnson and Arkansas Traveler. The production and disease resistance of Arkansas Traveler is pretty amazing. It's more vigorous and prolific than most hybrids, and it produces in 93 degree heat with sweltering nights. It's a beast of a plant.
I think it's a matter of finding the variety that works for your area. That's super, super tricky, especially since I think most large online nurseries (where I have to shop) are geared towards Midwestern growing experiences. I had a similar experience to you moving from Kentucky to Texas. It was a mind-blower to realize that most of favorites just couldn't cut it in the Texas hell country. (And no, that wasn't a typo -- this place is a freaking desert, if you ask me.) That said, there ARE heirlooms that work here -- Cherokee Purples *will* grow if you start them early enough and put them in the right spot -- but IMO, you're better off in Texas sticking with cherry or grape tomatoes. I've tried the hybrids recommended for here by Texas A&M and I could just as well have bought the fruit from the grocery store, it was so bad. (I'm still irked I wasted dirt on Early Girls and Celebrity. What an overhype!)
Good morning Steve. Heirloom tomatoes can only tolerate successive planting in the same bed about two years. At two years you need to move your heirloom beds every few years to avoid disease that establish in your original bed. Hybtrid tomatoes can grow year after year in the same bed without disease. Granted heirlooms don't produce heavy, but they do give beautifully tasting fruits. On a different topic, my Golden Riverside fig is loaded with figglets. Just coming out of dormancy here in TX Hill Country
We are just starting out and you cover everything we need to grow, appreciate your info so much, you are so dedicated. Happy gardening from Austral, N S W. Australia
gmo doesn't work that way. To make a blue tomatoe you'd need genes for blue plant pigments in a fruit, for instance from a blue berry. Then you'd also need to breed white tomatoes so the blue pigments show up, otherwise it will have both red and blue pigments making a purple tomato. The plant itself is perfectly safe to eat and maybe has additional nutrients.
Yeah the maker of this video is more fair to GMOs than some but still is phrasing things in a way that seems designed to scare people off. There's nothing inherently wrong with GMO, it's a tool for creating new plants, and just like any tool whether it's good or bad depends entirely on what the people using it are doing with it. It can theoretically be used for bad things... say, if someone were to try creating a GMO version of kudzu vines that are EVEN MORE invasive than the current ones. It can be used for good things, say the creation of golden rice to solve vitamin A deficiency problems in third world countries saving millions from the health problems that deficiency results in. Or it can be used for neutral things, say a large agriculture company making GMO crops to increase yields for the sake of increasing their profits. Short version, GMO is a tool. Tools are neither good nor bad, it depends on what you do with them. You can use a hammer to build a house for an underprivileged family or you can use to murder a hobo in an alley.
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very good explain between Heirloom VS Hybrid VS GMO tomatoes. thanks
Oh my gosh you made the video I’ve been praying someone big would make!! I left you a comment earlier about this lol 😂 I’ve made videos on it but I have a newer channel unfortunately my former channel I lost I had no idea the power of UA-cam an starting over is not easy 😳🤦♀️ thank you I can now share this with everyone I know oh my gosh I am so happy finally someone not here to grift you’re the real deal!! 🥳 woohoo
I enjoy growing a mix. If I could only grow 10 tomato varieties every year I would grow 4 cherries (2 hybrid, 2 heirloom) 3 for canning (all hybrid) 3 for fresh slicing (all heirloom). I want excitement but man… nothing pumps out tomatoes like a Big Beef.
Yes, I am growing Purple Cherokee, Beefsteak, Better Boy, Black Krim and cherry tomatoes--can't remember offhand which variety. I'm pretty excited about them, and I have a great oven-roasted tomato sauce recipe for canning that does away with peeling them.
Thank you. I have never grafted tomatoes before. My struggle is mostly due to pollination, which is a limitation of the tomato pollen itself at high temperatures we experience here. Grafting will not solve that problem, unfortunately.
I bought some grafting tubes to do just what you just mentioned - I wanted to graft an heirloom scion to a hybrid cultivar. However, it is my understanding that the bacterial wilt will enter into the hybrid root and then into the heirloom stalk. I didn't bother to try this as the grafting takes a bit of work. You can try growing your heirlooms tomatoes in 5 gallon buckets - dirt free. Get a bale of peat moss and cow manure/mushroom compost. Mix equal parts along with vermiculite/perlite. Stake the plant by drilling two sets of holes on the bucket's side and using U posts as the stake. Those green U posts are available at HD and Lowe's in the outdoor fencing top section. If the plant gets higher than the 5 feet (or so) metal U post you can zip tie a regular wooden tomato stake (or whatever) to the top of the U post for added height. Be sure to mix time-release fertilizer into the peat moss "cocktail". BTW - container plants will need more fertilizing than in-ground plants. I also re-use my container "grow cocktail" several times over. Just "refresh" it with more manure/mushroom compost. I grow my Japanese variety eggplants in containers as they are quite susceptible to bacterial wilt - plus the fruit grown this way is beautiful compared to the so-so in-ground grown fruit. Good luck....!
Wow! That's great info that answered a lot of my questions! ( : Thanks! ( : Like you suggested I am growing mostly determinant tomatoes for my pasta sauces. Our heat get to be too much for plants that take a long time to ripen their fruits. Give Dale a pat from me! ( :
I'm glad it was helpful! I was anti-determinate for many years. Why? I have no idea. Stubbornness, I think. Well, I've changed my ways and I've fully embraced them. They are a joy to grow. So much easier in so many ways. I'm looking forward to this Margherita Hybrid roma-type I'm growing this year. Dale says hi!
I don't have a ton of experience with canning and paste tomatoes, so I'm not the best person to ask. I'm trying to learn and get into that. This year, I'm growing Margherita Hybrid, which is a highly disease resistant Roma-type from Tomato Growers. It's supposed to be excellent for canning, so I'm going to give it a try. For high production, I can vouch for Celebrity and Bella Rosa. They are large, perfect-looking, super productive, highly disease resistant varieties. I have made them into fresh puree for sauce and they're great. They aren't as thick as a paste-type Roma or San Marzano, though. They're a beefsteak slicer, but can also be used for canning.
Got 50 Bella Rosa going in the ground soon. Very impressed last year. They stood straight and tall almost two feet before they were braced. Stayed inside a five foot T-post. Really looked like I knew what I was doing. Also trying Roadster. SS100 and SunGold on the side. Hope there's not too much rain again this year. One big reason for heirloom popularity is the obvious movement toward government tyranny.
Charleston has some of the worst humidity in the entire country. Most heirlooms would do very poorly in Charleston. In that climate, hybrid determinate varieties produce best yields.
If two heirloom tomatoes are crossed to create a new tomato- ie. Berkeley Tie dye- is a hybrid Or is it an heirloom? I’m confused because they are still sold as heirlooms.
I've had pretty good luck over the past 25 or so years growing heirlooms here in the southern part of north Georgia. My go-to heirloom is the Black Krim. Given I have bacterial wilt in my soil I treat my heirlooms once per week with aspirin - 325 mg in a gallon sprayer - cover the plant completely with this mixture in the early morning hours before the heat starts. I also treat the soil with two heaping tablespoons of baking soda mixed with water in a 5 gallon bucket and water them with this. I've been gravitating toward the heirloom Pineapple as they have been really good producers for the last few years. My absolute go-to hybrid is of course the Better Boy. This year I'm trying a new hybrid - the Purple Boy. I hope this variety lives up to the reviews. Another favorite hybrid of mine is the Japanese Momotaro. It's really a good tomato - supposedly Japan's most favorite - and it is pretty darn good! BTW - If you love cucumbers as much as I do my go-to hybrid over the past two decades is the Korean (hybrid) cucumber. It is without a doubt the best hybrid there is. I have also had much success regrowing them with F2 seeds from the previous year's harvest. I you allow this variety to over-mature it turns more into a melon than a cucumber. They actually sell over-mature Korean cucumbers in my local Korean markets. Good luck to all...!
I do the same thing. I grow just a handful of heirlooom favorites, but hybrids today have gotten so good that there is no longer taste loss. No consequences for gardeners like me to grow hybrids 😊
Awesome perspective! Does your fence around the garden keep the rabbits out? Trying to figure out the hole size for my garden as the rabbits are becoming a problem.
Thank you! I had an incident with rabbits last year that got in, but it has since been fixed. I have a video showing how I fixed this problem here: ua-cam.com/video/vxkdZuRdnfw/v-deo.html
Rabbits have eaten my peppers, beans/peas, and okra leaves down to the stem. Chicken wire fence is about the only thing that will keep them out. I have a patch-work of fencing around my 1,000 sq. ft. garden but they occasionally squeeze in between "rabbit fence" fences. I think the best way to keep them out is work your garden in the early morning and late evenings when they are most active. Your presence in the garden is the best deterrent. My smooth fox terrier is pretty good at rooting them out of the azaleas near my garden. I've actually trapped a few over the years in my Have-a-Heart traps than I use to trap squirrels and chipmunks both of which will eat your 'maters..
Good and simple explanation. I'm just saving the seeds of the fruit or vegetable i like best, and hope they will go on growing the same or better. If not, I'll eat them anyway 😁
Over time, you may stabilize yourself a good variety. If you find something that grows back consistently every year and is a winner, you may be on your way to making your own heirloom variety if you save it long enough.
@@TheMillennialGardener that is what I'm aiming for. Watching your video made me think I should plant my tomatoes (and other anuals) closer together, to allow genetic diversity and see how they develop. Personally, i never look for perfection, so whatever nature gives me is appreciated 🙂. Thank you for your videos, always packed with great information and knowledge!
We try our best. He is so high strung and full of energy that it's hard to get his attention when he's excited, but once he calms down, he is a good listener. We're lucky to have such a smart boy.
Excellent info..You hinted of a hybrid with the Cherokee Purple, my fav, but you didn't list what it would be called. The Cherokee is wonderful, but because of the long hot summer in central AZ I only get production up until July. I've tried the celebrity, but it doesn't taste very good to me. The determinate purple cherry bushes do well, but they're not slicers. Mortgage Lifter is the only Heirloom I've had success with here, but it's not purple, so it doesn't have near the taste of the Cherokee. The F2 generation Paul Robinson tastes good and is disease resistant, but it doesn't do well in the heat. Any suggestions for a Purple hybrid that can handle the heat?
I was referring to the Chef’s Choice line. Chef’s Choice Purple is the specific variety. It is similar to Cherokee Purple with 3x production. You can also try Rosella Purple, which is a dwarf variety with incredible fruit. I think it is superior to Cherokee Purple, but it is very heat sensitive and best grown early.
I hear you on that problem. I'm in Texas, so also stupid hot temps and no tomatoes once the temps hit the 90s in June -- just when almost everyone else in the country starts to have tomatoes coming on! I agree, Celebrity is just horrible, as is 444 and Early Girl, all of which are hyped for this area and all of which are just tasteless rocks. Have you tried starting your Cherokees super early and using a cloche? I'm in Texas, and if we start ours at the beginning of March, hold off on putting up the cages for the first few weeks so we can use cloches (we use five gallon Ozarka water bottles with the bottoms cut off) when it gets cold, we get a good crop by June, which is when the temps start getting stupid hot. We also have had some good success with Better Boys. You may also want to think about upside down growing. We love San Marzanos and Romas, but the heat just withers them to nothing. We've had luck putting them in during September, though. Bonus: when they come on, it's a bit cooler and it's not so horrible to stand in the kitchen making sauce and such!
Thank you for pointing out that the SEEDS are the result of the cross, the fruit that was pollinated by another plant will still look like the parent plant it’s growing on. If you plant a super hot pepper next to a sweet or mild pepper it’s not going to make the fruit on those mild peppers hot, but if you save the seeds from that mild plant without isolating the cross, it could make the next generation hotter if there was crossing between the mild/sweet with the super hot pepper, but if you have no intent on saving the seeds it doesn’t matter. There also seems to also be a myth circulating that you can’t save the seeds at all from a hybrid or F1, but you definitely can. As you mentioned with stabilization, it’s going to be a gamble what that tomato looks like, even is self pollinated, but you will definitely get a tomato. I’ve historically had excellent luck with tomatoes in northern New England, but large slicers are harder for me because of our short season (and animals seem to love them). I am going a few heirlooms, as well as several newer stabilized open pollinated from Wild Boar, and Hybrids (Chefs choice varieties at your recommendation).
Exactly. There is a lot of confusion and myths out there when it comes to pollination and cross-pollination. The original crop is not affected. Yes, you can save any seed, but the question is - will it grow true? When you do what I do and grow 25 different varieties of tomatoes next to each other, it isn't 100% reliable to save any seed, even from the heirlooms, because there is so much potential for cross-pollination. If all you want is to grow tomatoes, you can save any seed. Volunteer cross-pollinated seeds are just as edible and delicious, usually. But if you want to preserve lineage, you really need to grow your plants spread out to minimize cross-pollination and limit the varieties you grow.
This is great information I always wondered why Heirloom was the varieties that most people grow? I mean they are good but not the only seeds available I will expand what I grow this year to other seeds.
Heirlooms are fashionable right now, and a lot of organic gardeners spread an anti-hybrid bias. I think there is a bit of a 'superiority complex' to growing heirlooms, and it's unfortunate, because it convinces new gardeners to often try the hardest to grow varieties. That leads to struggling, and struggling leads to people wanting to give up. In short, try lots of varieties in your climate, because what does well somewhere won't do well somewhere else. It's taken me about 100 different varieties to find a dozen that do well where I live, but every year, I build more and more successes. It's fun! I've found the Chef's Choice line to be amazing, since you get "heirloom fruit" from disease resistant, productive plants with stalks like tree trunks! They're tough as nails.
Glad it was helpful! Ultimately, 7-8 generations is a rough guesstimate. In reality, things are stabilized when you plant all the seeds and they all grow to look about the same. New varieties are often sold before they're perfectly stabilized, and there is usually some variation, still.
@@TheMillennialGardener Thanks for the feedback. I'm gonna experiment with some F1 Spinach seeds I saved last season to see how much variation I get. I'm guessing it would be less noticeable than say a tomato...
The trick to growing heirlooms, especially in a hot climate , is patience , some planning, care full watering and fertilizer, heirlooms do not do well with too much nitrogen, one teaspoon , double the water , two gallons instead of one ! Make sure ,they get the microbiology, in organic fertilizers, use compost , lots of mulch ! Put some worms in the rich soil you grow them in , feed the worms , red wrigglers are the best ! Plant them with , carrots, chives , sweet corn , basil, zinnias , marigolds ,onions, nasturtium’s, a friend of mine even says they do well with sunflowers , the sunflowers attract beneficial insects , that benefit both . In hot climates , don’t try to grow tomatoes in the scorching heat of the summer , plan ahead , take note of the # of days to get fruit from the variety of your choice. Plant in late June for example , most varieties, will set fruit in September when it cools off . I have even had to plan for October , I live in Ivins , Utah , we hit or exceed 100 , F , on average 100 times each summer ! Be patient, most heirloom varieties , with great flavor, require a long season , a lot can happen over a long season ! Take careful notes , to see what works & what does not work . I’ve had incredible success, with brandy wines , purple Cherokee, black krim , many people have told me horror stories of these varieties, I have found , remove yellow leaves , right away , don’t procrastinate , plant them so they flower , in September , be careful with nitrogen 10 % is plenty ! Back off the fertilizer & water when the fruit gets large and starts to turn color . I have had brandy wines , purple Cherokee, black krim , produce 35 plus tomatoes , and everyone delicious. I grew a potato leafed purple Cherokee, that was Devine ! Like a dummy , I did not save the seeds ! Save the seeds !!! If you do all this and apply these steps to growing hybrids , you will grow tomatoes ,like a King ! It will not matter whether they are hybrid , heirloom or open pollinator .
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. I have one comment. Not to shut down your theory but, Has no one noticed that Mother Nature does not keep "hybrids" that cannot reproduce themselves. Heirlooms and non-hybrid open-pollinated plants have, through the process of natural selection, over decades, centuries, etc. developed their place in the natural order; not over one year in someone's backyard with a paintbrush. This, I submit, may cause irreparable damage to pollinating insects who may not be getting all the pollen and nectar they need, causing colonies of bees to fail, die off, etc. (or at least it's a contributing factor). I'm just sayin.
you're confusing f1 hybrids that cannot reproduce the same exact characteristics as their parents with plants that can't reproduce at all. f1s flower and produce pollen and reproduce. also heirlooms were not created through natural selection, humans selected them.
Hybrid plants still reproduce. The seeds are not sterile. There is just no guarantee that they will be identical to the parent. They are often pretty close though.
Great points to all about F1 and reproduction. Question, isn't there a difference between selecting open-pollinated plants that work well versus human interference/breeding out certain characteristics? And I still assert that natural selection is the longer-term, less invasive, lower impact on plants and all critters that evolve alongside them.
@@sofiaedmundson9128 your point about natural selection being less invasive, well of course by definition it doesn't have human intervention but that doesn't have to mean human selection is bad or have a negative impact on the plants or fauna. an example of human selection that does have a negative impact on pollinators would be ruffle cosmos flowers which insects have a hard time getting pollen from. there's not much about tomatoes you could select for that would make a difference imo.
The only reason I watched your channel was for heirloom info. I live on the Canadian prairies where it is usually very conducive to growing heirliims. We don't have the disease and bugs that you have. I plant what I think will taste great no worries about didease. All about the flavor. Too bad as I was enjoying your channel.
It's normal for dogs (and people) to get accustomed to being rewarded (or punished, but that's a completely different topic, and "accustomed" is not quite the word I would use in that case) for a behavior 😊 the goal is to slowly wean off treats each time (simply put). I don't know if you're working with a trainer (or what your experience/knowledge is; first video on this channel) but there are "best practices" and different ways to go about this, and timing in the training process is key. You can rotate different rewards (praise, toy, fun activity, etc.) My preferred method for reactivity is a mix of counterconditioning (changing the negative associations and reaction to positive; with my dog, this was giving treats at the sight of and walking by the trigger... He was very afraid of everything after adoption that this changed his reactivity to people walking by us, bikes, umbrellas, and so on since he learned nothing bad happens with these triggers plus he gets tasty snacks, making each trigger interaction positive) with some safe desensitization (like watching triggers at a distance) and Engage-disengage games (look at trigger, look at me, get rewarded, to put it simply). I like and encourage my dog to check in with me after seeing a trigger, even if it's just treat-seeking. That's where behavior modification comes in... Instead of freaking out at a trigger, redirect attention to me. It became automatic for all triggers but dogs.
Oh I'm well aware of the accustomed-to-being-rewarded aspect. That's the reason why I carry the treats. I don't want him to be reactive on-leash to other dogs, so we are trying to teach him to stop and look to us for guidance when he sees another dog instead of getting excited, overreacting and wanting to pull over to the dog like a freight train. The thing that astounds me about Dale is how he understands full sentences, even when his head is turned and he isn't looking at me. He has such an extensive knowledge of the English vocabulary it it shocking, at least to me.
Every year, I buy a few heirloom tomatoes at small markets or farmers markets and I have yet to be impressed by one. Any of them at all. It just doesn't make any sense for me to grow a variety that isn't as disease resistant, isn't as productive, and doesn't give me tomatoes that I enjoy more than the hybrids we grow every year. We grow Bodacious (beefsteak), Gladiator (paste), and Cherry Baby (cherry) hybrids, and when I taste a tomato I enjoy more, I'll consider switching, but after over a decade of trial and error, these are our favorites, and yes, they're all hybrids.
It is illegal to sell GMO seeds to individuals. They are not for sale by any seed company. It is tightly controlled and only professional farmers who sign a contract with the manufacturer purchase the seeds in large scale, very specific farming. People need to stop worrying that they are going to get gmo seeds. I agree with you about heirlooms. I will always grow a couple because I love the taste but I use hybrids for making sauce, salsa, bruscheta, etc. that I can. Also to make sure I get a good supply throughout the summer for our use. There are some great tasting hybrids.
Some good explanations of types. However, when someone tries to tell me that Big Beef can compare in taste with a clssic Beefstek, i get off the train. I understand that disease is a real challenge in your environment and some hybrids may offer more disease reisistance, but don't pretned that the taste is the same.
It's true. It's so commonly confused that I felt the need to make the video. Hopefully it clears up some misconceptions, because they couldn't be more different. Thanks for watching!
I'm not sure I got the simple answer I was looking for. What I really want to know is why are my beautiful heirloom tomato plants hardly producing any fruit and it's September 1st. The fruit they have produced and granted they're only three plants, have been absolutely the most delicious Tomatoes I think I've ever had including no offense dad, but my father's that he grew all of my life. I actually went outside after watching this and rub the little flowers together. Yes lots of flowering but very few tomatoes. I thought I recently read that heirloom tomatoes don't produce as much that was only after I had pains taking me planted and nurtured them. If I grew a lot of other fruits and veg I might be okay with 10 Tomatoes per plant but I don't. Anyway if anybody knows why my heirlooms don't produce as much but are phenomenally good tasting I love your input what am I doing wrong and what am I doing right? Also should I keep them going until the first Frost? I am also in North Carolina and we will not get a frost probably until November and the way these plants look they're not ready to fizzle out anytime soon. Well that was about as lengthy and confusing as this video! Sorry folks
Your tomatoes aren't producing because of two reasons: 1. It's likely too hot and humid still. When daytime temperatures are above 90 and nighttime temperatures are above 70 with high dew points, the pollen becomes sticky. When this occurs, your tomatoes cannot pollinate. It doesn't matter what you do. You can shake and vibrate the flowers all you want, but they are sterile during these weather conditions common in Carolina summers. 2. You've chosen heirloom beefsteaks, the least resilient of all tomatoes. Heirloom beefsteaks have been heavily inbred to stabilize the variety and preserve properties prized by humans: large fruits, thin skin, high sugar content. These are recessive genes, so the traits we prize most actually make the weakest, least resilient plant possible. This is why most heirlooms are infamous for low yields and high susceptibility to pests and disease. Where you live, the only varieties that will continue to produce throughout the summer are cherry tomatoes, small slicers (generally 2" in diameter or smaller) and Roma-type tomatoes. That is because the flower structure is different, and the fruits can still pollinate to some degree during our summer conditions. The yields will be lower and you'll still lose a number of flowers even when hand-pollinating, but some will still set. Here in Wilmington, heirlooms and beefsteaks generally stop pollinating around June 1. Any fruit you're going to get will set in April and May, and then you must harvest by mid-July before the plants die. If you want to grow heirloom indeterminate tomatoes all summer, you need to move north or to the west coast where it cools off into the 60's at night consistently, or you need to grow indoors in a climate-controlled room, unfortunately.
@@TheMillennialGardener THANK YOU! Now this makes sense to me. I am not the only one who is not getting tomatoes. I don't know what my neighbors have planted but I see their plants are not producing. Other friends of mine that live in different parts of North Carolina are not having any luck although my friend in New Jersey has had a reasonable yield! As I hate to throw such beautiful planets out there's no use keeping them if they are not going to yield any more fruit. I thought I planted better boys not beef steak. I don't know if I mentioned that in my comment as I often confuse the two. I looked back where I ordered them and it says I ordered better boys and that they were heirlooms. Is that the case are better boys heirlooms? So to be sure, all of this flowering and nonsense is not going to turn into anything before the first Frost, correct? I'd love to get them out of my way and stop wasting my energy pampering them. Yes it is been a hot dry summer. One of the worst I remember in a while. Next year I'm going to follow your tips and hopefully we will get a little rain and a little less Heat! Thank you very very much!... the climate also makes sense as when I was a child in Connecticut we always got our tomatoes toward the end of August, but we got tomatoes! I never would have guessed too much heat and humidity would stop a tomato plant from producing but I am new at this.
Breed your tomatoes. Collect your own seeds. Grow those. I usually grow one or two traditional heirlooms but they are definitely much more delicate in my zone. I grow them just as a curiosity. There are certain varieties of cherries and other medium tomatoes, some stable, some not, that grow much stronger in my hot and dry zone - took a bunch of experimentation and seed collecting. Definitely, tomatoes bred in my own garden are much happier plants.
I had terrible results with most Heritage Indeterminates....Disease and Pests....terrible.Hybrids work the best here in Minnesota.Thanks for the informative vid..Peace from MN
@@TheMillennialGardener Summers in Minnesota are actually very humid. Trust me. Yes it is cold in winter. But it is also hot and humid in summer, contrary to what everyone in the south seems to think
I wish I could "like" this 10 times. My husband, who knows nothing about gardening, listened for a minute and said, "This reminds me of pure bred dogs who have tons of health issues." That's why I married him!
It is sort of like that. At the end of the day, it is genetic diversity that makes healthy animals and plants. If we only save a variety or breed based on a quirky trait, we lose diversity. This is how you wind up with misshapen dogs that people think are adorable, but they can hardly walk and/or breathe because we are trying to preserve a destructive recessive gene at their expense 😔 Similarly, with tomatoes, if taste is the objective above all else, you may wind up with a delicious fruit, but the plant could have many recessive genes that harm its ability to survive and adapt.
Yes, gene diversity is important. A lot of breeds, especially the older ones, have nearly gone extinct at some point, so in order to raise up numbers, some inbreeding was done, resulting in a lack of gene diversity and prominent inherited health issues. Other breeds have small gene pools because of location (such as a village or bred only among local farmers, etc.) I had my adopted doberman DNA tested by Embark (with the health add-on to test for breed-specific issues) and it told me his inbreeding ratio, which is quite high. Also, he has a lot of "relatives" who have been found because they were also tested, but that's because they have 80-98% of the same base genes, not necessarily because there's actually any familial relation. Since I adopted him from a shelter after he was a stray, it's extremely likely he was from a backyard breeder, as a responsible breeder would've taken him back if his owners didn't want him (plus he is a double carrier for a blood clotting disorder; a responsible breeder would've tested for this disorder and not bred the parents). Interestingly, cheetahs are similar in that they started to have very poor gene diversity due to inbreeding when the population collapsed, believed to have happened twice. Their poor genetic diversity and poor genes make it difficult for the species to continue (along with, you know, all that humans have done that are the main reason they're endangered). Of course, you do also have breeding for certain traits that can contribute to problems. There's no doubt about that. It's also rather a myth that mixed dogs are healthier than purebreds and there's studies about it. It's just not how genetics work. If I recall this correctly, if a dog with a dominant gene for a disorder breeds with a dog carrying the disorder's recessive gene, then they're more likely to have the disorder with two copies of the gene. I may have the terminology and exact things wrong, it's been a very long time since I studied genetics, but that's the gist of it. Responsible purebred breeders test for genetically known disorders (as well as test hips, elbows, and any other structural issue known to the breed) and don't breed dogs that carry those genes. Mixed bred dogs are largely the result of irresponsible people and "designer breed" fads. They're not DNA tested or have expensive scans done of their hips and anything else. Genetically poor purebreds are the result of irresponsible people and "breeders" who just want to make a profit without any concern to bettering a breed or producing healthy dogs. Unfortunately, we still don't know the genetic markers for a lot of diseases and disorders, so not everything can be tested. But because a disease or disorder is so prominent in a breed, we know it must be genetic. Liver diseases/disorders are prominent in dobermans but we don't know the genetic markers. A breeder may breed healthy, unaffected dogs, but if both dogs turned out to be carriers... The same can happen with mixed breed dogs. A mixed breed of dog can be affected by no genetic condition (but can still carry it) and be healthy. Or it can win the bad-gene lotto, like what happened with the littermates my family had. BOTH ended up with hip dysplasia at relatively young ages; the male also had arthritis by age 4. A lot of people have been shocked when they turned out to be allergic to their doodle because, surprise, a dog that sheds little hair and dander bred to a dog that sheds lots of hair and dander can create puppies that still shed hair and dander! That's just how things work. Typically, you'd need a doodle several generations in to more reliably get the result you want, but even then it can be iffy. Also, far too many doodle "breeders" are in it for the money or fad without any sort of breeding program and interest in establishing one. This turned out to be very long, but I do think it's interesting and did want to address a misconception and provide information someone may find helpful 😅
Your video is very informative ! Let’s be real though. Your geographic location is the baseline. Not the types or varieties. It’s all relative to what your looking for in your tomato plant and what your looking for overall.
I respect the decision. Disease and pests also plague my warmer and drier climate, though to a lesser extent. Just got inspired by you to grow with a vengeance. And I will grow heirlooms too to prove you wrong haha
There are some good, disease resistant, productive heirlooms out there, but they're a small minority. Rather than trying to hunt for them, you can get much better tasting hybrids. For example, Arkansas Traveler is a very productive, disease resistant heirloom, but the taste is nothing compared to a Brandy Boy, Chef's Choice variety or Celebrity, and they're all F1's. If you want the best tasting, most disease resistant varieties out there, they probably won't be heirlooms, unfortunately.
I grow heirlooms, but only once in 20-years did I get a fruit that wasn't true to the original. I read Brandywine cross pollinates easy. And the result of my cross pollination seemed to be a cross of Brandywine and campari: clumps of golf ball sized pink tomatoes.
I've gotten "mislabeled" seed a couple times off the shelf from the big box stores, but I don't think I've ever had an open pollinated or heirloom variety not true "true"-ish. The point I was trying to make is that some heirloom varieties have creeped over long periods of time. I'll give you an example: the original Rutgers variety is known to have changed a bit over the decades, and the Rutgers sold now as an heirloom is somewhat different from the original Cambpell's Soup variety stabilized a century ago. It's still similar, but if you grew seed from 1940 and compared that plant to seed from today, it would be a little off.
Valuable? Maybe for coastal Carolina growers. Here on the West Coast (and undoubtedly elsewhere) your theories offer no relevance. Serious "Heirloomeros" recognize an obligation to conduct ongoing selection and are continuously upgrading cultivars without the corrupting influence of commercial F1s.
These aren’t theories. It is genetics. Disease resistance isn’t the only characteristic important to tomatoes. Production and root strength is, as well. You may not have a serious problem with disease in your location, but you do have a serious problem with drought tolerance and overall production. More vigorous F1’s are more likely to perform better in drought and have higher production than heirlooms. Obviously, some heirlooms are more vigorous than others, but this is the “general” rule. The obligation of gardeners is to try new things, honestly evaluate the results and report them. That’s what I am doing. Heirlooms are generally inferior. In the many dozens of varieties of heirlooms I’ve grown over the years, only two shocked me with their vigor to date.
@@TheMillennialGardener The theory is not related to basic genetics, which you've accounted for accurately. It's your implied conclusion that we'd all be better off subjecting authentic heirloom cultivars to hybridization with cultivars of genetic novelty. It's no sin - science is based on theory until proof is validated. I'll point out that we have have no issue at all with drought tolerance as we grow our multiple heirloom cultivars with a drip system under shadecloth. The system also excludes most pests and viruses. We have a robust selection program that has enabled us to release several proprietary, authentic heirloom cultivars over the years, improving flavor, shelf life, and disease resistance. It is evidence that genetic resilience abounds within the DNA resources of authentic heirlooms. We are not without problems altogether but we generally find expedient, organic-compliant solutions. Our success has enabled us to build a successful business on the West Coast during the past 15 years. I don't doubt the veracity of your experience and, as a grower, your prerogative to choose your path ought not be challenged. I would only suggest caution in communicating your decision to the public since it tends to discourage some from choosing a successful path like ours. There are countless ways to produce tomatoes. Good luck!
Generally good video but a self pollinated plant unless its been selfed for a very long time isnt a clone. In fact one way to help an OP variety is to cross plants obtained from different sources. I enjoy my Crnkovic Yugoslav and Sunset Red Horison open pollinated varieties. I live in MO and have had good luck with regards to disease and pests. Agree with you on heirlooms, I have never had good luck with them and they dont taste any better than my OPs in my opinion. I disagree strongly on GMOs not being safe or having unpredictable effects. DNA is DNA and our bodies generally know what to do with proteins, no matter their source. There is an all purple tomato coming and Id like to grow it. :)
If youre loking to grow a lot of different tomatoes and are ok living from packet to packet you buy from the shop then hybrids are fine. They have a high vigor, Are usually pretty prolific and can be just as tasty as heirlooms. You just can't save their seeds. Bevause youll get something different. If you want to save Seeds and have a reliable phenotype then heirlooms Are great. Heirlooms also help to maintain genetic diversity and can grow very well if theyre from your area. On top of that they are fun to learn about and grow. For gardening hobbyists and enthusiasts theyre the Orchids and violets of our day in that theyre the "in" thing. I dont know wnough about GMOs to comment. Either theyll give you lumps or they wont according to the internet...
My point isn’t to necessarily choose hybrids, but simply to not avoid them. I’ve spoken to many a gardener that will only grow heirlooms, and they suffer for it. If you have found heirlooms that grow well in your location that you love, keep growing them. But if you struggle with them, move onto something more genetically diverse.
@@TheMillennialGardener exactly, i'm not trashing heirlooms in general, just that they haven't worked out for me that well. everyone should grow what works for them.
Maybe I'm missing something. You mentioned that you try to avoid GMO seeds whenever possible. I've never paid attention to whether my seeds are GMO. I checked my seed packages and while some of them say "Non GMO", most of them don't. Are GMO seeds that common?
What I heard you say in the video was you try to avoid GMO seeds when you can. That led me to believe that they were universally available. What I think you're telling me now is quite the opposite ... that they are not broadly or easily available. I guess it really doesn't matter. Your video motivated me to research the subject. Interesting research. Thanks again for your video.
I know you mentioned that you can't save the seeds of F1 hybrids, but I wish you had spent more time on this subject. For some that is very important. The more open pollinated are not used the more that are lost forever. The more seed companies can get you hooked on hybrids the more diversity is lost not gained.
The intent of this video is to simply explain the differences between seed types. It isn’t meant to explain each type in painstaking detail. I think too much emphasis is placed on open pollinated types. Preserving a variety for the sake of preservation isn’t too appealing to me. There are a lot of mediocre types out there that won’t stand the test of time. I’ve had a lot more luck with high quality F1’s than I have OP’s, personally.
There are several huge seed banks that are preserving material. To maintain that material, the majority has to be stable material (OP) because they have to periodically grow out that source material. The material that makes up hybrids include many sources of OP plant material such as wild-type tomato that injects disease resistance for example. Essentially, nature wants to stabilize. In open field, plants will eventually stabilize. Bees going back and forth year after year will generate an eventual stabile OP. It's the lack of the occasional crossing that hurts diversity. Open-seed source initiatives are too important to too many people. It won't be lost for both of those reasons. Hybrids are great and serve a purpose helping people significantly in many cases, but they are major ag money-driven inventions.
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I'd like to disagree with you: The F1 (offspring of two "stable" parents), aka simple cross, is very stable with no real detectable differences. So stable, it's as dependable in phenotype as an OP. The reason why there are so many hybrids is because seed companies do not need to patent/PVP the variety. All they have to do is keep the "stable" parents secret and cross to get that same exact "Big Beef" or "Bella Rosa" F1 hybrid. The diversity STARTS in the F2--selfing the F1. That's when you'll want to grow out lots of plants. This is what I do (am a breeder): In a simple cross, I cross two stable parents, grow 5 or so F1 plants. More plants is a waste of time and a person needs to be educated on it to prevent that waste of time should they desire to breed vegetables. I self the F1 plant that's the most vigorous. That seed is F2 and I grow out a whole lot of that seed. I'm growing 100 F2 plants now of what I'm explaining. F2 is where the action is and where the main selection should be. At F2, you are 75% stability of what you see (phenotype) in each individual plant. Select one (or many in my case) of those F2 plants that are the best out of all those plants. Each selfing afterwards solidifies the stability by 50% until F7/F8 (debatable) when it's so-called stable (OP) or greater than 99.9% (ish) stable. We could get into double-hybrid crosses, hybrid-OP crosses, and more. In those cases, F1s will have some diversity because the parents weren't "stable". I like those types of crosses in my work too. It's notable to also say that lots of desired recessive genes show up the highest in F2 at roughly 25%. Mendel discovered this with peas some time ago. So, recessive genes express 0% in F1, 25% in F2, 12% in F3 and so on. But, the magic is when they do, they are immediately stable from F2-OP. An example is potato leaf vs regular leaf. If you see a potato leaf at F2, it will be there every generation after if selfed. Colors other than red are recessive (in degrees). My parthenocarpic tomato gene is recessive. At F3 and later, the chances of getting that elusive recessive gets much harder. Too hard really to consider. Recessives are awesome. I'm just putting this out there in case you, or anyone who reads this and may be interested in breeding, will have some clarification. My opinion on OPs are that the taste profiles were the focus of almost all of their breeding for a very long time which is why they have such a following...including me. I always use OPs to inject better taste profiles. The focus for most hybrids is disease resistance, plant structure (processing), and to a smaller degree taste. Ag-guys know what sells. Bottom dollar you know. Edit: I've tried and trialed most of the hybrids you show. I like one of them compared to tons of heirloom/OPs out there, but you are right, there's a sacrifice in production or disease pressure quite often.
Sorry I'm posting so much. I love this subject. It's my bailiwick.
Very interesting! I think plant breeding would be cool to do. I just bought a Burpee Hybrid zucchini plant and saw other plants at the store listed as hybrid or as F1 (like some kale). I decided to stay away from them because I wasn't certain what that entailed. I understand the basics of genetics but I don't know the crosses and stuff the growers used, so how do I know what I'm getting? (Some of the Kalen plants were literally just labeled "F1 Kale.") I also want to save the seeds and wasn't sure if that would be wise with these hybrids. I thought that when plants cross-pollinated, the current plants aren't affected but seeds saved and grown the next year may not grow true, so they seemed like not the kinds of plants for me. Was I correct in this? I also wonder if nurseries offload their mishaps and unwanted plants on the unsuspecting people at the grocery store...
Thx, I saved your comment for future reading.
thx for the seminar.
@@MadCheshireHat gmos are illegal still for public sale to much money being made on the patents . I’ve had no issues but one with hybrid seeds, I had one plant that wasn’t as tasty with my tomato’s I’ve used them for years until a few years ago when UA-camrs scared me away from hybrid as. If it’s gmo 🤦♀️ but in fact hybrid is cross pollination that nearly everyone has unless they grow only one type acres apart an the wind an the bees or insects etc can’t cross pollinate it will be a hybrid
The price of hybrid seed for everything is very expensive the past few years. There are heirloom varieties that will do well in more challenging zones. We need to support our farmers who grow out and maintain the open pollinated varieties for genetic diversity, the ability to save your own seed and not have to rely on the companies who will shortly take over control of seeds. If your heirlooms cross pollinate you just might end up with some good strong seed that does well in your climate.
The New Dwarf Tomato project varieties r open pollinated
Preservation of heirlooms is imperative because more and more F1's are being propagated and if heirlooms are not grown with their seed collected and then sold on, seed companies are going to have total control over our the worlds seeds and therefore food supplies. Just look at what Monsanto have done to see into the future of what will happen if we do not keep the open pollinated seeds going.
@@beverlyboyce1041 Yes, I did try one variety last year, and trying more this season.
@@leelee9106 Agree. Messing around with God's creations whether plant or animal is dangerous .
Yes !
Something all back yard Gardeners should listen and practice.
Very well explained and easy to understand.
Thanks for your teaching Sir
I'm happy to hear that! Thanks so much for watching.
To me the heirloom types have that great flavor I am looking for, I grow predominantly heirlooms, I grow the ones I like and being an heirloom would never stop me from growing heirloom
Heirloom is healthier, too. I recently watched a show where they tested the heirloom varieties and hybrid varieties and the heirloom have much higher nutrients. If I wanted a lower nutrient tomato with less flavor, I would just buy them at the grocery store.
@@aquaseahorselove3939 you need to consider the source of your information. This is not true.
The heirloom is the only original and pure tomatoes when grown properly. Most of what they call food today is poison,
@@bigtitan27 Oh well I’ll take your word for it 🙄
It was a professional on tv running science experiments. I’ll go with science.
@@aquaseahorselove3939 A tomato is a tomato buddy. They all have different concentrations of nutrients depending on the variety. There are heirlooms with lower nutritional value and hybrids with higher, and vise versa. Considering there are literally tens of thousands of different tomato types all over the world it's such a blanket statement to say "heirlooms are healthier". Go ahead and believe the "science" you saw on tv but the presenter was most likely just picking specific heirlooms with high nutrimental value and pitting them against hyrids on the other end of the spectrum.
another great video. my yields with heirloom tomatoes was always terrible. I also see a lot of confusion that people think cross pollination effects the fruit that first year when it only effects the seeds in that first year fruit.
Correct! It is the seed that is cross-pollinated. I have spent so much time suffering with heirlooms, as well. There are a couple I will still grow (mostly Brandywine Yellow and Arkansas Traveler), but there are so many good F1’s now that there isn’t much need to grow them anymore for most gardeners.
I love heirloom, but this year growing a mix w/ hybrid for production and canning. Actually I went back on your videos and found varieties I am excited to try. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. Have a great day
You're welcome! I'm glad some of the variety selections could be helpful. Hoss Tools have a lot of good variety selections, too, if you struggle with humidity and disease.
I grow my heirlooms for variety of color and flavor. I also have found many that do better for me than hybrids. I have to grow my tomatoes up at my dad's garden because our current house is in shade, but last year I grew San Francisco fog variety in my shaded yard and they ripened for me . It is not either or ... Not one Size fits all.
Also saving heirlooms preserves traits we may need in a hybrid variety in the future.
My dad and I grow both and I don't see a downside to either side of the fence.
If you have found heirloom varieties that do well in your area and you like them, keep growing them for sure. As I mentioned in this video, there are heirlooms that are well-adapted and vigorous and can do well for many growers, and some growers live in easier climates than others that can grow wider varieties of things. The point of this video is to explain the difference between heirlooms and hybrids, because many organic gardeners are biased against hybrids. This is a bad mentality, because having an anti-hybrid bias prevents new gardeners from having success. The way you entice new gardeners into the craft is to set them up for success, and you do that by recommending easy to grow varieties. For most, that will not be the most popular heirlooms. In summary, try many varieties and assess what does well for you. If they're heirlooms, hybrids or a mix of both, grow the ones you enjoy. Just don't struggle growing varieties that don't do well for you because of pressure from others.
Beverly Brown I agree with you both if not for the flavor I'd not bother growing a garden, I'm keeping my taste as my leader and am raising Brandywine and Big Brandy (Brandi ) and will test with a open mind .However Brad's Atomic Grape is a Hybrid that is our circle of people favorite and My favorite is a Heirloom Terracotta that I plan to have until I have a new favorite.
This year I have 34 types under my grow lights and mostly Heirlooms, I do expect that hybrids can satisfy anyone that not reading labels. I'll post pictures later in the season about mid August
Excellent video. You're great at explaining somewhat complex or misunderstood concepts/ideas. Hybrids have gotten a bad name among some "organic" gardeners I know, and yet their tomatoes won't survive any type of pest pressure or adverse weather. Also the examples you give allows us as viewers to target some of those varieties, esp. when here in FL we get the extremes like you do. Thanks again! Jim
I'm happy to hear that! It's always frustrated me that some organic gardeners are down on F1 hybrids. F1 hybrids are how Mother Nature strengthens the species - it's the most natural thing. I don't understand how some growers can try and talk growers out of it. If you're a seed-saver, F1's aren't from you, but that's such a tiny portion of gardeners. The way you get people to start gardening is by making it easier, and F1 hybrids are much less challenging and more fruitful. Talking new gardeners into growing challenging heirlooms leads to gardeners quitting, and that's the last thing we want to see!
The strongest tomatoes that can grow im your garden are honestly the direct seeded or volunteer ones, in my experience self seeded plants are simply immune to pest pressure compared to transplants
Exceptional video. I’m trying Cherokee Carbon F1 this year but Sungold and big beef are the only two F1 tomatoes I normally grow. As good as Big Beef is, it isn’t as good as a mediocre true heirloom. But I grow it as a fail safe. Because it is. Sungold is in a league of its own so will always grow. . I’m also in a hot and humid area and fight EB every year. BTW, Sungold is actually very susceptible and struggles to make it to Fall. But how can you not grow heirlooms like Prue, KBX, Wes, CP, and BW Sudduth. Is t there best tasting tomatoes the goal here. I can by all the chef’s choice I can eat at the farmer’s market. If I had your setup. I would grow to a single vine 2 plants each of a different variety of heirloom. You would get loads of tomatoes that will make you weak kneed to eat. When they die from disease you’ll still have plenty tomatoes that haven’t. I grow 30 plants and keep my extended family and friends with tomatoes through September. Also, the art of selecting and saving seeds is a major part of the fun. Years down the road you could have Brandywine Millennial Garden Strain that people clamber for.
Anthony; your videos are just crazy good. You are incredibly efficient, knowledgeable, patient, thorough and openminded. I especially appreciate the way you stage your photoshoots across weeks and months to show the results of your projects; even the biggest gardening channels aren't that organized. Your skillset is so valuable I honestly wish I could download your brain into mine!
My one quibble with your channel is your camera. Nikon rules, damn it! :)
Thank you! I really appreciate that. I'm an engineer by trade, so it's sort of my job to be organized. I genuinely love doing this, so staging the experiments over months to catch the results are fun. I have a no-till experiment in progress, a fig growing experiment in progress, and a few more tricks up my sleeve for the fall. Thanks for your support and generosity. I really appreciate it. As for the camera, I go with the Sony mirrorless, because the cameras are so small and compact. DSLR's are too big and heavy. My only qualm is the camera doesn't have internal image stabilization, and to go full-frame with the internal image stabilization is just way more than I could afford at the time. Maybe as the channel grows; I've already gone through 2 different cameras to upgrade the quality with growth 😄
@@TheMillennialGardener Aha; I knew you were a technical fellow. Most of the big gardening channels are run by people with degrees in like... music and political science (not to impugn those fine pastimes). You can tell in the way they approach horticultural pedagogy--too haphazard and disorganized. I'm telling you--you really have the best gardening channel on YT, and the material for an incredible book or other physical resource.
Which got me to thinking; if you were to release all of your videos on a thumb drive as a "prepper" resource, I would happily pay for it, and so would a lot of other people. There's a huge amount of paranoia about the possibility of a "grid-down" situation, and a single resource that pulls everything together like your video playlist would be an incredible boon to those of us who are preparing for the worst. I've blown an insane amount of money on solar power, water purification, gardening tools and seed packs in advance of what may be coming.
I'm a math/computer science guy myself, and a professional 3d animator among other things. I only mentioned Nikon because I've been using their cameras for a quarter century now, and they really are the best.
Let me know if there's anything I can do for you. I'd be happy to craft a cool animated intro for the show as a piece of fan art if that would help the channel!
My approach is to start plants from seed, that do well in south FL. That way, they do great here in NC. Once I get what I like, I take cuttings around Halloween and overwinter them indoors. I can perpetuate clones this way, plus I have plants over four feet tall already (I only grow indies).
Very helpful information. I live in Wilmington, NC and have struggled to grow tomatoes. I get good production in the first few months, but when the heat and humidity hit, they take a major setback. I will try some of your recommendations
I live a couple hours north of you and have experienced the same thing. I start tomatoes in the house 2x each spring. I cover one of my raised beds with a plastic greenhouse and add heat with 5gal bucket and aquarium heater. I try to have the first tomatoes in 2 weeks before last frost date. I have later started plants incase my first attempt fails.
A few miles south of you & same story. Early summer burst of production then mid-summer decline. Living up north, late summer-autumn meant tons of tomatoes. I expected better here in the south, lots of sunshine & rain, but no - very disappointed. But learning that choosing the right tomato is everything. Some trial & error, but mostly advice from local fellow gardeners now. 👍
@@striperswiper1 Thanks for the tip. I am going to experiment this summer planting fast-growing determinant tomatoes indoors in Jully then translating outdoors in September
Tomato pollination will cease in most varieties when temps eclipse 90 in day and 70 at night. Basically, most tomatoes become sterile here early June through early September. All that will grow are cherry types and a handful of heat-bred selections, but with greatly reduced yields. We need to plant in late March here, protect them from frost and hand pollinate in April and May to have great harvests. This 2 videos will help you tremendously:
ua-cam.com/video/x2zoorfpZ50/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/p-rlucSV1Oo/v-deo.html
@@TheMillennialGardener Thank you!
Love this video! I will go ahead and say I grow heirloom because:
- I want to save seed and know that it’s not sterile for seed independence
- I want to know what kind of tomatoes I’ll get from the same seed
I’m growing hybrids, dwarfs, and some open pollinated (Burbank, Terracota, and Tomesol) that I received free. I’m looking forward to see which tomatoes do the best in our desert climate.
fwiw, i live in the desert (zone 8a) and i get great harvests from celebrity and early girl. ymmv
@@zia_kat I have Celebrity seedlings that I going to transplant later this month. I planted Early Girl last summer and the plants developed fruit early but took a long time to ripen and weren’t that good eating. Hopefully, Celebrity will do well here. I’m going to plant early this year and hopefully will have a better harvest. Thanks for the reply!
@@archstanton9703 everyone has different climate and soil conditions so grow what works best in your specific situation. for me celebrity is super flavorful but takes a bit more time to ripen than EG. EG ripened really quickly and was good but not quite as delicious as celeb but worth it for early salsas. i'm also def going to be trying some more hybrids that do well in our desert climate.
Thanks for explaining this. I like growing hybrids but it's not economical because I would like to be able to save seed. I guess I'll have to keep a couple packs of Heirloom seeds stashed in case times get too hard to purchase seeds again.
you could also let your f1s become a landrace adapted to your particular environment.
@@zia_kat that would take time and experimentation. If I would have had the foresight years ago, I may have perfected a few varieties for my particular area. Danny at Deep South Homestead did. But alas, after the Great Seed Shortage not more than 2years ago combined with the warnings of Climate changes,,,???
@@Shortcake39553 i kind of did it unintentionally with some cherry tomatoes by just neglecting volunteers that sprouted from my compost. they've been coming back for 5 years. i'm old but i still look at gardening as a long game endevor.
@@zia_kat I like your attitude. You must be doing something right. Keep up the experiment and you might be creating the next Heirloom.
Great video. I have switched to growing mostly modern hybrids myself. And succession planting determinates makes up a big part of my tomato growing now. Tomato breeding programs have came a long way in the past 20 years. The flavor is every bit as good or better than a lot of heirlooms.
I agree. Tomatoes r tricky in my area of Texas. Heat is the enemy. I quit growing late season and heirlooms cause the bloom drops in the high humidity and heat. Not worth wasting the time, space and money.
@@beverlyboyce1041 same here in Tn.
@@beverlyboyce1041 determimate tomatoes are miles easier to grow in Texas, however in my experience it is possible to grow indeterminate tomatoes, but it is no walk in the park I'm afraid.
I throw veggie scraps during the winter into my garden patch. One spring I let a volunteer tomato plant grow to maturity. The fruit appeared to be an over-sized Roma. I harvested a few of them to see how they would taste. Well, they tasted like the men's restroom smells three days after a Led Zeppelin concert - not kidding...! They were horrible.. I should have saved some to give to the neighbors as a gag (no pun intended) gift.. 🙂
I hate cracks and hybrids tend to be less cracked 🙃 I got every chef's choice on your recommendation except I couldn't find orange. You had such good success with them last year that I decided to go for a successful year this year. Here's to a crackless summer!!!
Excellent explanation. I moved to Southeast Texas from Nebraska and it took a few years to understand that heirlooms don't grow well here. This year I'm growing Bella Rosa, Homestead, Rio Grande, and Floridade.
It's taken me several years to figure out how to grow tomatoes here, too. Growing them in NJ and PA where I used to live is a piece of cake by comparison, and boy do we struggle here with the summer rain. If you want to give two heirlooms a shot, try German Johnson and Arkansas Traveler. The production and disease resistance of Arkansas Traveler is pretty amazing. It's more vigorous and prolific than most hybrids, and it produces in 93 degree heat with sweltering nights. It's a beast of a plant.
I think it's a matter of finding the variety that works for your area. That's super, super tricky, especially since I think most large online nurseries (where I have to shop) are geared towards Midwestern growing experiences.
I had a similar experience to you moving from Kentucky to Texas. It was a mind-blower to realize that most of favorites just couldn't cut it in the Texas hell country. (And no, that wasn't a typo -- this place is a freaking desert, if you ask me.) That said, there ARE heirlooms that work here -- Cherokee Purples *will* grow if you start them early enough and put them in the right spot -- but IMO, you're better off in Texas sticking with cherry or grape tomatoes. I've tried the hybrids recommended for here by Texas A&M and I could just as well have bought the fruit from the grocery store, it was so bad. (I'm still irked I wasted dirt on Early Girls and Celebrity. What an overhype!)
Good morning Steve. Heirloom tomatoes can only tolerate successive planting in the same bed about two years. At two years you need to move your heirloom beds every few years to avoid disease that establish in your original bed. Hybtrid tomatoes can grow year after year in the same bed without disease. Granted heirlooms don't produce heavy, but they do give beautifully tasting fruits.
On a different topic, my Golden Riverside fig is loaded with figglets. Just coming out of dormancy here in TX Hill Country
We are just starting out and you cover everything we need to grow, appreciate your info so much, you are so dedicated. Happy gardening from Austral, N S W. Australia
gmo doesn't work that way. To make a blue tomatoe you'd need genes for blue plant pigments in a fruit, for instance from a blue berry. Then you'd also need to breed white tomatoes so the blue pigments show up, otherwise it will have both red and blue pigments making a purple tomato. The plant itself is perfectly safe to eat and maybe has additional nutrients.
Yeah the maker of this video is more fair to GMOs than some but still is phrasing things in a way that seems designed to scare people off. There's nothing inherently wrong with GMO, it's a tool for creating new plants, and just like any tool whether it's good or bad depends entirely on what the people using it are doing with it. It can theoretically be used for bad things... say, if someone were to try creating a GMO version of kudzu vines that are EVEN MORE invasive than the current ones. It can be used for good things, say the creation of golden rice to solve vitamin A deficiency problems in third world countries saving millions from the health problems that deficiency results in. Or it can be used for neutral things, say a large agriculture company making GMO crops to increase yields for the sake of increasing their profits.
Short version, GMO is a tool. Tools are neither good nor bad, it depends on what you do with them. You can use a hammer to build a house for an underprivileged family or you can use to murder a hobo in an alley.
very good explain between Heirloom VS Hybrid VS GMO tomatoes. thanks
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching!
Oh my gosh you made the video I’ve been praying someone big would make!! I left you a comment earlier about this lol 😂 I’ve made videos on it but I have a newer channel unfortunately my former channel I lost I had no idea the power of UA-cam an starting over is not easy 😳🤦♀️ thank you I can now share this with everyone I know oh my gosh I am so happy finally someone not here to grift you’re the real deal!! 🥳 woohoo
The very best and clearest explanation I've ever heard. Extremely helpful. Thanks so much. Yes I'm a sub 🤗
Thank you! I appreciate it! Thanks for the subscription!
Great info, thank you for
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching!
South Eastern cost of North Carolina. Is there a south western coast there too?
Very comprehensive. Thank you so much I learned a lot in this one.
I’m glad to hear it. Thank you for watching!
Wow! Great information. Thank you for sharing the knowledge.
You're welcome! Thank you for watching!
I enjoy growing a mix. If I could only grow 10 tomato varieties every year I would grow 4 cherries (2 hybrid, 2 heirloom) 3 for canning (all hybrid) 3 for fresh slicing (all heirloom). I want excitement but man… nothing pumps out tomatoes like a Big Beef.
Yes, I am growing Purple Cherokee, Beefsteak, Better Boy, Black Krim and cherry tomatoes--can't remember offhand which variety. I'm pretty excited about them, and I have a great oven-roasted tomato sauce recipe for canning that does away with peeling them.
Fantastic presentation. Do you have any experience growing heirloom tomatoes grafted on a rootstock?
Thank you. I have never grafted tomatoes before. My struggle is mostly due to pollination, which is a limitation of the tomato pollen itself at high temperatures we experience here. Grafting will not solve that problem, unfortunately.
@@TheMillennialGardener I hope to change that very soon.
I bought some grafting tubes to do just what you just mentioned - I wanted to graft an heirloom scion to a hybrid cultivar.
However, it is my understanding that the bacterial wilt will enter into the hybrid root and then into the heirloom stalk. I didn't bother to try this as the grafting takes a bit of work. You can try growing your heirlooms tomatoes in 5 gallon buckets - dirt free. Get a bale of peat moss and cow manure/mushroom compost. Mix equal parts along with vermiculite/perlite. Stake the plant by drilling two sets of holes on the bucket's side and using U posts as the stake. Those green U posts are available at HD and Lowe's in the outdoor fencing top section. If the plant gets higher than the 5 feet (or so) metal U post you can zip tie a regular wooden tomato stake (or whatever) to the top of the U post for added height. Be sure to mix time-release fertilizer into the peat moss "cocktail". BTW - container plants will need more fertilizing than in-ground plants. I also re-use my container "grow cocktail" several times over. Just "refresh" it with more manure/mushroom compost. I grow my Japanese variety eggplants in containers as they are quite susceptible to bacterial wilt - plus the fruit grown this way is beautiful compared to the so-so in-ground grown fruit. Good luck....!
The best explanation that I’ve heard. Thanks for sharing.
I’m glad to hear that! Thanks so much for watching!
Best explanation of this subject I have seen. Thank you.
I’m happy to hear that! Thanks for watching!
Wow! That's great info that answered a lot of my questions! ( : Thanks! ( :
Like you suggested I am growing mostly determinant tomatoes for my pasta sauces. Our heat get to be too much for plants that take a long time to ripen their fruits.
Give Dale a pat from me! ( :
I'm glad it was helpful! I was anti-determinate for many years. Why? I have no idea. Stubbornness, I think. Well, I've changed my ways and I've fully embraced them. They are a joy to grow. So much easier in so many ways. I'm looking forward to this Margherita Hybrid roma-type I'm growing this year. Dale says hi!
YES YES YES! Thank you!!!! I've been trying to explain GMO vs Hybrid till I'm blue in the face! People are so confused.
You're welcome. One is natural and required for a species to survive in nature. The other is humans in a laboratory. Totally unrelated!
Wow interesting. Thanks :)
You’re welcome!
I actually understood 🤠👍 thank you brother!
I’m so happy to hear that. I tried to keep it simple. It is a complicated subject.
Great vid What variety do you recommend for canning for sauce?
I don't have a ton of experience with canning and paste tomatoes, so I'm not the best person to ask. I'm trying to learn and get into that. This year, I'm growing Margherita Hybrid, which is a highly disease resistant Roma-type from Tomato Growers. It's supposed to be excellent for canning, so I'm going to give it a try. For high production, I can vouch for Celebrity and Bella Rosa. They are large, perfect-looking, super productive, highly disease resistant varieties. I have made them into fresh puree for sauce and they're great. They aren't as thick as a paste-type Roma or San Marzano, though. They're a beefsteak slicer, but can also be used for canning.
Very valuable information.tnx.
great video, and great explanation on hybrids, gmo's, and heirlooms.
Glad you liked it! Thank you for watching!
Thank you so much for explaining this. Great video
You're welcome! I'm glad it was helpful!
I grew a “Gladiator” this year. Astonishing number of huge fruit with almost no seeds. Never seen so many tomatoes on one plant in my life.
Consulting Google, that appears to be a paste-type hybrid similar to a Roma? If you enjoy it, definitely keep growing it!
Got 50 Bella Rosa going in the ground soon. Very impressed last year. They stood straight and tall almost two feet before they were braced. Stayed inside a five foot T-post. Really looked like I knew what I was doing. Also trying Roadster. SS100 and SunGold on the side. Hope there's not too much rain again this year. One big reason for heirloom popularity is the obvious movement toward government tyranny.
I live in Charleston, SC. Would I have better luck with these hybrid varieties than a true heirloom like Brandywine?
Charleston has some of the worst humidity in the entire country. Most heirlooms would do very poorly in Charleston. In that climate, hybrid determinate varieties produce best yields.
This makes so much sense, thank you. BTW, Dale is adorable!
I'm glad to hear it! Dale is the best. He's such a good boy. We lucked out with him.
If two heirloom tomatoes are crossed to create a new tomato- ie. Berkeley Tie dye- is a hybrid Or is it an heirloom? I’m confused because they are still sold as heirlooms.
I've had pretty good luck over the past 25 or so years growing heirlooms here in the southern part of north Georgia. My go-to heirloom is the Black Krim. Given I have bacterial wilt in my soil I treat my heirlooms once per week with aspirin - 325 mg in a gallon sprayer - cover the plant completely with this mixture in the early morning hours before the heat starts. I also treat the soil with two heaping tablespoons of baking soda mixed with water in a 5 gallon bucket and water them with this. I've been gravitating toward the heirloom Pineapple as they have been really good producers for the last few years. My absolute go-to hybrid is of course the Better Boy. This year I'm trying a new hybrid - the Purple Boy. I hope this variety lives up to the reviews. Another favorite hybrid of mine is the Japanese Momotaro. It's really a good tomato - supposedly Japan's most favorite - and it is pretty darn good! BTW - If you love cucumbers as much as I do my go-to hybrid over the past two decades is the Korean (hybrid) cucumber. It is without a doubt the best hybrid there is. I have also had much success regrowing them with F2 seeds from the previous year's harvest. I you allow this variety to over-mature it turns more into a melon than a cucumber. They actually sell over-mature Korean cucumbers in my local Korean markets. Good luck to all...!
Great info Dale. Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
Great info, well explained. Thanks.
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching!
Thank you for the beautiful information!
You’re welcome!
Excellent video. I will still grow some heirloom for the taste knowing my yield will not be as big but now know why.
I do the same thing. I grow just a handful of heirlooom favorites, but hybrids today have gotten so good that there is no longer taste loss. No consequences for gardeners like me to grow hybrids 😊
Thank you! That was a very helpful explanation!
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching!
Excellent information thanks. I have a son named Dale so therefore your dog is a good boy. Love your videos. x
That's awesome! Needless to say, Dale has become one of my favorite names 😀
Never thought of it that way.
Thank you.
You’re welcome!
Awesome perspective! Does your fence around the garden keep the rabbits out? Trying to figure out the hole size for my garden as the rabbits are becoming a problem.
Thank you! I had an incident with rabbits last year that got in, but it has since been fixed. I have a video showing how I fixed this problem here: ua-cam.com/video/vxkdZuRdnfw/v-deo.html
Rabbits have eaten my peppers, beans/peas, and okra leaves down to the stem. Chicken wire fence is about the only thing that will keep them out. I have a patch-work of fencing around my 1,000 sq. ft. garden but they occasionally squeeze in between "rabbit fence" fences. I think the best way to keep them out is work your garden in the early morning and late evenings when they are most active. Your presence in the garden is the best deterrent. My smooth fox terrier is pretty good at rooting them out of the azaleas near my garden. I've actually trapped a few over the years in my Have-a-Heart traps than I use to trap squirrels and chipmunks both of which will eat your 'maters..
Good and simple explanation. I'm just saving the seeds of the fruit or vegetable i like best, and hope they will go on growing the same or better. If not, I'll eat them anyway 😁
Over time, you may stabilize yourself a good variety. If you find something that grows back consistently every year and is a winner, you may be on your way to making your own heirloom variety if you save it long enough.
@@TheMillennialGardener that is what I'm aiming for. Watching your video made me think I should plant my tomatoes (and other anuals) closer together, to allow genetic diversity and see how they develop. Personally, i never look for perfection, so whatever nature gives me is appreciated 🙂. Thank you for your videos, always packed with great information and knowledge!
Just found you and subbed. I live just off Holden Beach and have had good luck with the German Johnson.
Thanks for subbing! You're about 25 mins from me down 17!
I wholeheartedly agree! I planted 18 heirlooms and the production stinks. Hybrids next summer.
Where do you get your seeds from
Excellent video. At least you really do know the gene story. Ive tried many times to explain gmo/nongmo and people look at me in disbelief😕. Thanks.
Lol, Dale. So glad the reactivity training is going well! Y’all are such great dog parents!
We try our best. He is so high strung and full of energy that it's hard to get his attention when he's excited, but once he calms down, he is a good listener. We're lucky to have such a smart boy.
Excellent info..You hinted of a hybrid with the Cherokee Purple, my fav, but you didn't list what it would be called. The Cherokee is wonderful, but because of the long hot summer in central AZ I only get production up until July. I've tried the celebrity, but it doesn't taste very good to me. The determinate purple cherry bushes do well, but they're not slicers. Mortgage Lifter is the only Heirloom I've had success with here, but it's not purple, so it doesn't have near the taste of the Cherokee. The F2 generation Paul Robinson tastes good and is disease resistant, but it doesn't do well in the heat. Any suggestions for a Purple hybrid that can handle the heat?
Try Cherokee carbon it is a hybrid that has all the taste of the heirloom
I was referring to the Chef’s Choice line. Chef’s Choice Purple is the specific variety. It is similar to Cherokee Purple with 3x production. You can also try Rosella Purple, which is a dwarf variety with incredible fruit. I think it is superior to Cherokee Purple, but it is very heat sensitive and best grown early.
I hear you on that problem. I'm in Texas, so also stupid hot temps and no tomatoes once the temps hit the 90s in June -- just when almost everyone else in the country starts to have tomatoes coming on! I agree, Celebrity is just horrible, as is 444 and Early Girl, all of which are hyped for this area and all of which are just tasteless rocks.
Have you tried starting your Cherokees super early and using a cloche? I'm in Texas, and if we start ours at the beginning of March, hold off on putting up the cages for the first few weeks so we can use cloches (we use five gallon Ozarka water bottles with the bottoms cut off) when it gets cold, we get a good crop by June, which is when the temps start getting stupid hot. We also have had some good success with Better Boys. You may also want to think about upside down growing. We love San Marzanos and Romas, but the heat just withers them to nothing. We've had luck putting them in during September, though. Bonus: when they come on, it's a bit cooler and it's not so horrible to stand in the kitchen making sauce and such!
Thank you for listing some of the disease resistant tomatoes! So helpful! Great info😊👍
You're welcome! Happy to help!
Very informative...Thanks for this.
Glad it was helpful! Thank you for watching!
I love Chef's Choice Orange, trying out Chef's Choice Striped this year..
Is that Bicolor? It is a good tomato.
Thank you for pointing out that the SEEDS are the result of the cross, the fruit that was pollinated by another plant will still look like the parent plant it’s growing on. If you plant a super hot pepper next to a sweet or mild pepper it’s not going to make the fruit on those mild peppers hot, but if you save the seeds from that mild plant without isolating the cross, it could make the next generation hotter if there was crossing between the mild/sweet with the super hot pepper, but if you have no intent on saving the seeds it doesn’t matter. There also seems to also be a myth circulating that you can’t save the seeds at all from a hybrid or F1, but you definitely can. As you mentioned with stabilization, it’s going to be a gamble what that tomato looks like, even is self pollinated, but you will definitely get a tomato. I’ve historically had excellent luck with tomatoes in northern New England, but large slicers are harder for me because of our short season (and animals seem to love them). I am going a few heirlooms, as well as several newer stabilized open pollinated from Wild Boar, and Hybrids (Chefs choice varieties at your recommendation).
Exactly. There is a lot of confusion and myths out there when it comes to pollination and cross-pollination. The original crop is not affected. Yes, you can save any seed, but the question is - will it grow true? When you do what I do and grow 25 different varieties of tomatoes next to each other, it isn't 100% reliable to save any seed, even from the heirlooms, because there is so much potential for cross-pollination. If all you want is to grow tomatoes, you can save any seed. Volunteer cross-pollinated seeds are just as edible and delicious, usually. But if you want to preserve lineage, you really need to grow your plants spread out to minimize cross-pollination and limit the varieties you grow.
Clearly explained!
Good info, thanks!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching!
This is great information I always wondered why Heirloom was the varieties that most people grow? I mean they are good but not the only seeds available I will expand what I grow this year to other seeds.
Heirlooms are fashionable right now, and a lot of organic gardeners spread an anti-hybrid bias. I think there is a bit of a 'superiority complex' to growing heirlooms, and it's unfortunate, because it convinces new gardeners to often try the hardest to grow varieties. That leads to struggling, and struggling leads to people wanting to give up. In short, try lots of varieties in your climate, because what does well somewhere won't do well somewhere else. It's taken me about 100 different varieties to find a dozen that do well where I live, but every year, I build more and more successes. It's fun! I've found the Chef's Choice line to be amazing, since you get "heirloom fruit" from disease resistant, productive plants with stalks like tree trunks! They're tough as nails.
Excellent information. I was curious how long to stabilize an F1
Glad it was helpful! Ultimately, 7-8 generations is a rough guesstimate. In reality, things are stabilized when you plant all the seeds and they all grow to look about the same. New varieties are often sold before they're perfectly stabilized, and there is usually some variation, still.
@@TheMillennialGardener Thanks for the feedback. I'm gonna experiment with some F1 Spinach seeds I saved last season to see how much variation I get. I'm guessing it would be less noticeable than say a tomato...
The trick to growing heirlooms, especially in a hot climate , is patience , some
planning, care full watering and fertilizer, heirlooms do not do well with too much
nitrogen, one teaspoon , double the water , two gallons instead of one !
Make sure ,they get the microbiology, in organic fertilizers, use compost , lots of
mulch !
Put some worms in the rich soil you grow them in , feed the worms , red wrigglers are the best !
Plant them with , carrots, chives , sweet corn , basil, zinnias , marigolds ,onions,
nasturtium’s, a friend of mine even says they do well with sunflowers , the sunflowers attract beneficial insects , that benefit both .
In hot climates , don’t try to grow tomatoes in the scorching heat of the summer ,
plan ahead , take note of the # of days to get fruit from the variety of your choice.
Plant in late June for example , most varieties, will set fruit in September when it
cools off .
I have even had to plan for October , I live in Ivins , Utah , we hit or exceed 100 ,
F , on average 100 times each summer !
Be patient, most heirloom varieties , with great flavor, require a long season ,
a lot can happen over a long season ! Take careful notes , to see what works &
what does not work .
I’ve had incredible success, with brandy wines , purple Cherokee, black krim ,
many people have told me horror stories of these varieties, I have found ,
remove yellow leaves , right away , don’t procrastinate , plant them so they flower , in September , be careful with nitrogen 10 % is plenty !
Back off the fertilizer & water when the fruit gets large and starts to turn color .
I have had brandy wines , purple Cherokee, black krim , produce 35 plus tomatoes , and everyone delicious.
I grew a potato leafed purple Cherokee, that was Devine !
Like a dummy , I did not save the seeds !
Save the seeds !!!
If you do all this and apply these steps to growing hybrids , you will grow tomatoes ,like a King ! It will not matter whether they are hybrid , heirloom or
open pollinator .
Good explanation thank you.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching!
As always, excellent explanation.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. I have one comment. Not to shut down your theory but, Has no one noticed that Mother Nature does not keep "hybrids" that cannot reproduce themselves. Heirlooms and non-hybrid open-pollinated plants have, through the process of natural selection, over decades, centuries, etc. developed their place in the natural order; not over one year in someone's backyard with a paintbrush. This, I submit, may cause irreparable damage to pollinating insects who may not be getting all the pollen and nectar they need, causing colonies of bees to fail, die off, etc. (or at least it's a contributing factor). I'm just sayin.
you're confusing f1 hybrids that cannot reproduce the same exact characteristics as their parents with plants that can't reproduce at all. f1s flower and produce pollen and reproduce. also heirlooms were not created through natural selection, humans selected them.
Hybrid plants still reproduce. The seeds are not sterile. There is just no guarantee that they will be identical to the parent. They are often pretty close though.
Great points to all about F1 and reproduction. Question, isn't there a difference between selecting open-pollinated plants that work well versus human interference/breeding out certain characteristics? And I still assert that natural selection is the longer-term, less invasive, lower impact on plants and all critters that evolve alongside them.
@@sofiaedmundson9128 your point about natural selection being less invasive, well of course by definition it doesn't have human intervention but that doesn't have to mean human selection is bad or have a negative impact on the plants or fauna. an example of human selection that does have a negative impact on pollinators would be ruffle cosmos flowers which insects have a hard time getting pollen from. there's not much about tomatoes you could select for that would make a difference imo.
The only reason I watched your channel was for heirloom info. I live on the Canadian prairies where it is usually very conducive to growing heirliims. We don't have the disease and bugs that you have. I plant what I think will taste great no worries about didease. All about the flavor. Too bad as I was enjoying your channel.
It's normal for dogs (and people) to get accustomed to being rewarded (or punished, but that's a completely different topic, and "accustomed" is not quite the word I would use in that case) for a behavior 😊 the goal is to slowly wean off treats each time (simply put). I don't know if you're working with a trainer (or what your experience/knowledge is; first video on this channel) but there are "best practices" and different ways to go about this, and timing in the training process is key. You can rotate different rewards (praise, toy, fun activity, etc.) My preferred method for reactivity is a mix of counterconditioning (changing the negative associations and reaction to positive; with my dog, this was giving treats at the sight of and walking by the trigger... He was very afraid of everything after adoption that this changed his reactivity to people walking by us, bikes, umbrellas, and so on since he learned nothing bad happens with these triggers plus he gets tasty snacks, making each trigger interaction positive) with some safe desensitization (like watching triggers at a distance) and Engage-disengage games (look at trigger, look at me, get rewarded, to put it simply). I like and encourage my dog to check in with me after seeing a trigger, even if it's just treat-seeking. That's where behavior modification comes in... Instead of freaking out at a trigger, redirect attention to me. It became automatic for all triggers but dogs.
Oh I'm well aware of the accustomed-to-being-rewarded aspect. That's the reason why I carry the treats. I don't want him to be reactive on-leash to other dogs, so we are trying to teach him to stop and look to us for guidance when he sees another dog instead of getting excited, overreacting and wanting to pull over to the dog like a freight train. The thing that astounds me about Dale is how he understands full sentences, even when his head is turned and he isn't looking at me. He has such an extensive knowledge of the English vocabulary it it shocking, at least to me.
You’ve got something there: a kale plant that, when it bolts, grows a tomato vine. 🤔
Every year, I buy a few heirloom tomatoes at small markets or farmers markets and I have yet to be impressed by one. Any of them at all. It just doesn't make any sense for me to grow a variety that isn't as disease resistant, isn't as productive, and doesn't give me tomatoes that I enjoy more than the hybrids we grow every year. We grow Bodacious (beefsteak), Gladiator (paste), and Cherry Baby (cherry) hybrids, and when I taste a tomato I enjoy more, I'll consider switching, but after over a decade of trial and error, these are our favorites, and yes, they're all hybrids.
It is illegal to sell GMO seeds to individuals. They are not for sale by any seed company. It is tightly controlled and only professional farmers who sign a contract with the manufacturer purchase the seeds in large scale, very specific farming. People need to stop worrying that they are going to get gmo seeds. I agree with you about heirlooms. I will always grow a couple because I love the taste but I use hybrids for making sauce, salsa, bruscheta, etc. that I can. Also to make sure I get a good supply throughout the summer for our use. There are some great tasting hybrids.
Some good explanations of types. However, when someone tries to tell me that Big Beef can compare in taste with a clssic Beefstek, i get off the train. I understand that disease is a real challenge in your environment and some hybrids may offer more disease reisistance, but don't pretned that the taste is the same.
I agree & lots of people get hybrid and GMO confused.
It's true. It's so commonly confused that I felt the need to make the video. Hopefully it clears up some misconceptions, because they couldn't be more different. Thanks for watching!
I'm not sure I got the simple answer I was looking for. What I really want to know is why are my beautiful heirloom tomato plants hardly producing any fruit and it's September 1st. The fruit they have produced and granted they're only three plants, have been absolutely the most delicious Tomatoes I think I've ever had including no offense dad, but my father's that he grew all of my life. I actually went outside after watching this and rub the little flowers together. Yes lots of flowering but very few tomatoes. I thought I recently read that heirloom tomatoes don't produce as much that was only after I had pains taking me planted and nurtured them. If I grew a lot of other fruits and veg I might be okay with 10 Tomatoes per plant but I don't. Anyway if anybody knows why my heirlooms don't produce as much but are phenomenally good tasting I love your input what am I doing wrong and what am I doing right? Also should I keep them going until the first Frost? I am also in North Carolina and we will not get a frost probably until November and the way these plants look they're not ready to fizzle out anytime soon. Well that was about as lengthy and confusing as this video! Sorry folks
Your tomatoes aren't producing because of two reasons:
1. It's likely too hot and humid still. When daytime temperatures are above 90 and nighttime temperatures are above 70 with high dew points, the pollen becomes sticky. When this occurs, your tomatoes cannot pollinate. It doesn't matter what you do. You can shake and vibrate the flowers all you want, but they are sterile during these weather conditions common in Carolina summers.
2. You've chosen heirloom beefsteaks, the least resilient of all tomatoes. Heirloom beefsteaks have been heavily inbred to stabilize the variety and preserve properties prized by humans: large fruits, thin skin, high sugar content. These are recessive genes, so the traits we prize most actually make the weakest, least resilient plant possible. This is why most heirlooms are infamous for low yields and high susceptibility to pests and disease.
Where you live, the only varieties that will continue to produce throughout the summer are cherry tomatoes, small slicers (generally 2" in diameter or smaller) and Roma-type tomatoes. That is because the flower structure is different, and the fruits can still pollinate to some degree during our summer conditions. The yields will be lower and you'll still lose a number of flowers even when hand-pollinating, but some will still set. Here in Wilmington, heirlooms and beefsteaks generally stop pollinating around June 1. Any fruit you're going to get will set in April and May, and then you must harvest by mid-July before the plants die.
If you want to grow heirloom indeterminate tomatoes all summer, you need to move north or to the west coast where it cools off into the 60's at night consistently, or you need to grow indoors in a climate-controlled room, unfortunately.
@@TheMillennialGardener THANK YOU! Now this makes sense to me. I am not the only one who is not getting tomatoes. I don't know what my neighbors have planted but I see their plants are not producing. Other friends of mine that live in different parts of North Carolina are not having any luck although my friend in New Jersey has had a reasonable yield! As I hate to throw such beautiful planets out there's no use keeping them if they are not going to yield any more fruit. I thought I planted better boys not beef steak. I don't know if I mentioned that in my comment as I often confuse the two. I looked back where I ordered them and it says I ordered better boys and that they were heirlooms. Is that the case are better boys heirlooms? So to be sure, all of this flowering and nonsense is not going to turn into anything before the first Frost, correct? I'd love to get them out of my way and stop wasting my energy pampering them. Yes it is been a hot dry summer. One of the worst I remember in a while. Next year I'm going to follow your tips and hopefully we will get a little rain and a little less Heat! Thank you very very much!... the climate also makes sense as when I was a child in Connecticut we always got our tomatoes toward the end of August, but we got tomatoes! I never would have guessed too much heat and humidity would stop a tomato plant from producing but I am new at this.
Breed your tomatoes. Collect your own seeds. Grow those.
I usually grow one or two traditional heirlooms but they are definitely much more delicate in my zone. I grow them just as a curiosity. There are certain varieties of cherries and other medium tomatoes, some stable, some not, that grow much stronger in my hot and dry zone - took a bunch of experimentation and seed collecting. Definitely, tomatoes bred in my own garden are much happier plants.
I had terrible results with most Heritage Indeterminates....Disease and Pests....terrible.Hybrids work the best here in Minnesota.Thanks for the informative vid..Peace from MN
That’s interesting. I would’ve thought your lower humidity would’ve been helpful. Many heirlooms are just challenging, period.
@@TheMillennialGardener I have become more interested in using my space for Peppers :))
@@TheMillennialGardener Summers in Minnesota are actually very humid. Trust me. Yes it is cold in winter. But it is also hot and humid in summer, contrary to what everyone in the south seems to think
I wish I could "like" this 10 times. My husband, who knows nothing about gardening, listened for a minute and said, "This reminds me of pure bred dogs who have tons of health issues." That's why I married him!
It is sort of like that. At the end of the day, it is genetic diversity that makes healthy animals and plants. If we only save a variety or breed based on a quirky trait, we lose diversity. This is how you wind up with misshapen dogs that people think are adorable, but they can hardly walk and/or breathe because we are trying to preserve a destructive recessive gene at their expense 😔 Similarly, with tomatoes, if taste is the objective above all else, you may wind up with a delicious fruit, but the plant could have many recessive genes that harm its ability to survive and adapt.
Yes, gene diversity is important. A lot of breeds, especially the older ones, have nearly gone extinct at some point, so in order to raise up numbers, some inbreeding was done, resulting in a lack of gene diversity and prominent inherited health issues. Other breeds have small gene pools because of location (such as a village or bred only among local farmers, etc.)
I had my adopted doberman DNA tested by Embark (with the health add-on to test for breed-specific issues) and it told me his inbreeding ratio, which is quite high. Also, he has a lot of "relatives" who have been found because they were also tested, but that's because they have 80-98% of the same base genes, not necessarily because there's actually any familial relation. Since I adopted him from a shelter after he was a stray, it's extremely likely he was from a backyard breeder, as a responsible breeder would've taken him back if his owners didn't want him (plus he is a double carrier for a blood clotting disorder; a responsible breeder would've tested for this disorder and not bred the parents). Interestingly, cheetahs are similar in that they started to have very poor gene diversity due to inbreeding when the population collapsed, believed to have happened twice. Their poor genetic diversity and poor genes make it difficult for the species to continue (along with, you know, all that humans have done that are the main reason they're endangered).
Of course, you do also have breeding for certain traits that can contribute to problems. There's no doubt about that.
It's also rather a myth that mixed dogs are healthier than purebreds and there's studies about it. It's just not how genetics work. If I recall this correctly, if a dog with a dominant gene for a disorder breeds with a dog carrying the disorder's recessive gene, then they're more likely to have the disorder with two copies of the gene. I may have the terminology and exact things wrong, it's been a very long time since I studied genetics, but that's the gist of it. Responsible purebred breeders test for genetically known disorders (as well as test hips, elbows, and any other structural issue known to the breed) and don't breed dogs that carry those genes. Mixed bred dogs are largely the result of irresponsible people and "designer breed" fads. They're not DNA tested or have expensive scans done of their hips and anything else. Genetically poor purebreds are the result of irresponsible people and "breeders" who just want to make a profit without any concern to bettering a breed or producing healthy dogs.
Unfortunately, we still don't know the genetic markers for a lot of diseases and disorders, so not everything can be tested. But because a disease or disorder is so prominent in a breed, we know it must be genetic. Liver diseases/disorders are prominent in dobermans but we don't know the genetic markers. A breeder may breed healthy, unaffected dogs, but if both dogs turned out to be carriers... The same can happen with mixed breed dogs.
A mixed breed of dog can be affected by no genetic condition (but can still carry it) and be healthy. Or it can win the bad-gene lotto, like what happened with the littermates my family had. BOTH ended up with hip dysplasia at relatively young ages; the male also had arthritis by age 4. A lot of people have been shocked when they turned out to be allergic to their doodle because, surprise, a dog that sheds little hair and dander bred to a dog that sheds lots of hair and dander can create puppies that still shed hair and dander! That's just how things work. Typically, you'd need a doodle several generations in to more reliably get the result you want, but even then it can be iffy. Also, far too many doodle "breeders" are in it for the money or fad without any sort of breeding program and interest in establishing one.
This turned out to be very long, but I do think it's interesting and did want to address a misconception and provide information someone may find helpful 😅
Your video is very informative ! Let’s be real though. Your geographic location is the baseline. Not the types or varieties. It’s all relative to what your looking for in your tomato plant and what your looking for overall.
I respect the decision. Disease and pests also plague my warmer and drier climate, though to a lesser extent. Just got inspired by you to grow with a vengeance. And I will grow heirlooms too to prove you wrong haha
Growing hybrids here too. Fyi, the one string sweatshirt was distracting. Haha.
It was bothering me the entire time I was editing the video. The other string was tucked inside and I had no idea.
Exceptional video
Thank you! ❤️
@@TheMillennialGardener Oh God - We are actually growing inbred elitists that are mental.
i am going to be starting to create my own tomato as well this year. funny you posted this lol the tomato im starting with is a big boy tomato
Breeding can be fun if you enjoy the process. It is a lot of work, but it has rewards.
I've come to the same conclusion as you about heirlooms. From now on I'm doing Tiny Toms.
There are some good, disease resistant, productive heirlooms out there, but they're a small minority. Rather than trying to hunt for them, you can get much better tasting hybrids. For example, Arkansas Traveler is a very productive, disease resistant heirloom, but the taste is nothing compared to a Brandy Boy, Chef's Choice variety or Celebrity, and they're all F1's. If you want the best tasting, most disease resistant varieties out there, they probably won't be heirlooms, unfortunately.
I grow heirlooms, but only once in 20-years did I get a fruit that wasn't true to the original.
I read Brandywine cross pollinates easy. And the result of my cross pollination seemed to be a cross of Brandywine and campari: clumps of golf ball sized pink tomatoes.
I am trying bella rosa for the first time this year.
I have 10 year old tomato seed that was still VERY viable. I did a "seed hack" video that explains.
I've gotten "mislabeled" seed a couple times off the shelf from the big box stores, but I don't think I've ever had an open pollinated or heirloom variety not true "true"-ish. The point I was trying to make is that some heirloom varieties have creeped over long periods of time. I'll give you an example: the original Rutgers variety is known to have changed a bit over the decades, and the Rutgers sold now as an heirloom is somewhat different from the original Cambpell's Soup variety stabilized a century ago. It's still similar, but if you grew seed from 1940 and compared that plant to seed from today, it would be a little off.
Oh, OK. That explains why my little brother does not look like anyone of us in the family.
!
Valuable? Maybe for coastal Carolina growers. Here on the West Coast (and undoubtedly elsewhere) your theories offer no relevance. Serious "Heirloomeros" recognize an obligation to conduct ongoing selection and are continuously upgrading cultivars without the corrupting influence of commercial F1s.
These aren’t theories. It is genetics. Disease resistance isn’t the only characteristic important to tomatoes. Production and root strength is, as well. You may not have a serious problem with disease in your location, but you do have a serious problem with drought tolerance and overall production. More vigorous F1’s are more likely to perform better in drought and have higher production than heirlooms. Obviously, some heirlooms are more vigorous than others, but this is the “general” rule.
The obligation of gardeners is to try new things, honestly evaluate the results and report them. That’s what I am doing. Heirlooms are generally inferior. In the many dozens of varieties of heirlooms I’ve grown over the years, only two shocked me with their vigor to date.
@@TheMillennialGardener The theory is not related to basic genetics, which you've accounted for accurately. It's your implied conclusion that we'd all be better off subjecting authentic heirloom cultivars to hybridization with cultivars of genetic novelty. It's no sin - science is based on theory until proof is validated. I'll point out that we have have no issue at all with drought tolerance as we grow our multiple heirloom cultivars with a drip system under shadecloth. The system also excludes most pests and viruses. We have a robust selection program that has enabled us to release several proprietary, authentic heirloom cultivars over the years, improving flavor, shelf life, and disease resistance. It is evidence that genetic resilience abounds within the DNA resources of authentic heirlooms. We are not without problems altogether but we generally find expedient, organic-compliant solutions. Our success has enabled us to build a successful business on the West Coast during the past 15 years. I don't doubt the veracity of your experience and, as a grower, your prerogative to choose your path ought not be challenged. I would only suggest caution in communicating your decision to the public since it tends to discourage some from choosing a successful path like ours. There are countless ways to produce tomatoes. Good luck!
Generally good video but a self pollinated plant unless its been selfed for a very long time isnt a clone. In fact one way to help an OP variety is to cross plants obtained from different sources. I enjoy my Crnkovic Yugoslav and Sunset Red Horison open pollinated varieties. I live in MO and have had good luck with regards to disease and pests. Agree with you on heirlooms, I have never had good luck with them and they dont taste any better than my OPs in my opinion.
I disagree strongly on GMOs not being safe or having unpredictable effects. DNA is DNA and our bodies generally know what to do with proteins, no matter their source. There is an all purple tomato coming and Id like to grow it. :)
@@OgnjenMali I believe I got them from Tomatofest originally. They're not sure uncommon.
If youre loking to grow a lot of different tomatoes and are ok living from packet to packet you buy from the shop then hybrids are fine. They have a high vigor, Are usually pretty prolific and can be just as tasty as heirlooms. You just can't save their seeds. Bevause youll get something different.
If you want to save Seeds and have a reliable phenotype then heirlooms Are great. Heirlooms also help to maintain genetic diversity and can grow very well if theyre from your area. On top of that they are fun to learn about and grow. For gardening hobbyists and enthusiasts theyre the Orchids and violets of our day in that theyre the "in" thing.
I dont know wnough about GMOs to comment. Either theyll give you lumps or they wont according to the internet...
i'm with you on this. i just get better, earlier harvests and equally good quality from f1s.
My point isn’t to necessarily choose hybrids, but simply to not avoid them. I’ve spoken to many a gardener that will only grow heirlooms, and they suffer for it. If you have found heirlooms that grow well in your location that you love, keep growing them. But if you struggle with them, move onto something more genetically diverse.
@@TheMillennialGardener exactly, i'm not trashing heirlooms in general, just that they haven't worked out for me that well. everyone should grow what works for them.
Maybe I'm missing something. You mentioned that you try to avoid GMO seeds whenever possible. I've never paid attention to whether my seeds are GMO. I checked my seed packages and while some of them say "Non GMO", most of them don't. Are GMO seeds that common?
GMO seeds r sold only to commercial growers
Seed companies do not carry GMOs. They're farmer-contracted. But, major ag is working aggressively to change that.
What I heard you say in the video was you try to avoid GMO seeds when you can. That led me to believe that they were universally available. What I think you're telling me now is quite the opposite ... that they are not broadly or easily available.
I guess it really doesn't matter. Your video motivated me to research the subject. Interesting research.
Thanks again for your video.
Just take stem cuttings of your F1 tomatoes and grow them as houseplants over the winter!
I know you mentioned that you can't save the seeds of F1 hybrids, but I wish you had spent more time on this subject. For some that is very important. The more open pollinated are not used the more that are lost forever. The more seed companies can get you hooked on hybrids the more diversity is lost not gained.
The intent of this video is to simply explain the differences between seed types. It isn’t meant to explain each type in painstaking detail. I think too much emphasis is placed on open pollinated types. Preserving a variety for the sake of preservation isn’t too appealing to me. There are a lot of mediocre types out there that won’t stand the test of time. I’ve had a lot more luck with high quality F1’s than I have OP’s, personally.
There are several huge seed banks that are preserving material. To maintain that material, the majority has to be stable material (OP) because they have to periodically grow out that source material. The material that makes up hybrids include many sources of OP plant material such as wild-type tomato that injects disease resistance for example. Essentially, nature wants to stabilize. In open field, plants will eventually stabilize. Bees going back and forth year after year will generate an eventual stabile OP. It's the lack of the occasional crossing that hurts diversity. Open-seed source initiatives are too important to too many people. It won't be lost for both of those reasons. Hybrids are great and serve a purpose helping people significantly in many cases, but they are major ag money-driven inventions.
Home gardeners cannot get GMO seeds they are commercial only and also require a licensed agreement with the seed house
Correct! I tried to explain this in the description.