@@BrentRushton That's not the definition of insanity. For example you know what doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result can be? It can be practicing. You know what happens when you practice? You get a different result. You improve. That statement isn't a definition it was a quote from a novel. And it's a dumb quote from a novel.
Paying 4 forwards half the cap with no trade clauses, before they’ve done anything, is the definition of management malpractice. Fire everyone and start over.
was going to type this too, this team has been mismanaged since the very beginning. Now we have 4 expensive underachievers taking up almost half the cap space
Some of the last moves Treliving did while in charge of the Flames was give Huberdeau that insane contract and pay Montreal a 1st round pick to take Sean Monahan for nothing
I can't agree with this comment enough. It was painful living in Calgary watching Johnny G and Tkachuck leave for overpaid Kadri and Huberdeau. Treliving can't be trusted to make a good trade even if they get Marner to wave.
@@SpeedandSplendor I have never understood why Brad Treliving is so highly regarded as a hockey executive. His resume in Calgary was not great, I have no idea how he lasted 10 years there.
Sadly, in order to out-Vegas the Golden Knights, that requires a track record of Final 4 appearances. Vegas has done that 4 times in 7 seasons. Which is enough to stew jealousy. The last time Toronto made the ECF was 2002.
It all comes down to when it’s playoff hockey and he sees Sam Bennett Matthew Tkachuk and so on.. He isn’t built for the playoffs!!!! He is junior player.
This situation is going to define how the rest of the Core 4 era plays out in Toronto. Who they sign in the future. Who they decide to keep. Who they can afford to keep. The names they can go after in a playoff push. This whole team hinges on how Leafs management plays their cards with Marner's camp. It's easy to get emotional. They can't afford to let emotions change their course of action. IMO, if you want the Leafs to win a Cup, they have to do it without Marner. Not because of all this crap, but because of missed opportunities from previous seasons. It's clear that the Marner camp wants to play hardball. Then go play hardball. Find whatever leverage you have, cling to it, flex it, trade the player, and use the cap space to get those missing ingredients. Do whatever you can to win. As for Marner, if he gets his money, good for him. But I hope he realizes that this looming circus could cause some serious PR damage that he won't be able to shake. No matter how well he plays. And the boys are right about Shanny. If the Leafs botch this, it's on his shoulders, and he needs to be turfed for it.
Leaf fans need to start playing ‘would you rather,’ instead of this delusional talk about Leaf management winning a trade involving this player. Right now Leaf’s management is at would you rather lose Marner for nothing next offseason or trade him where the team has to bring back a bad contract with term? Think players like PLD or Seth Jones? ThEy DoN’t HaVe To Do ThAt! Yes they do. No team is willing to take $10M in cap space for nothing. If cap space is valuable to the Leafs, it’s valuable to 31 other franchises. Don’t also put it past the Marner camp to leak the one destination he is willing to be traded to in the media removing all leverage from the team of trying to create a market. Doing nothing IS something. It’s punting a year and waiting for $15-16M clear off the books with JT and Marner. Everyone sees JT resigning for less. 4-5M. Letting Marner walk doesn’t mean you lose him for nothing. You get the cap space. You also get a full year to see which players perform under the new coach, get his input on what’s needed to build around Austin and Willy and go from there. These playoffs should be an indication on how far off the Leafs are from actually competing. The team doesn’t need to go for it every year.
That’s a you problem. That is what the media has done to you. Develop this hatred towards him so a trade can be justified by the media… all in the name of hits and views. Vilify a great player … If he is traded (which I doubt)… he will go on and win and do well. Might even win a cup. Again. Look at our past for proof!! Chased out all our stars. Most went on and won a cup.
@@niroshank7859 So explain how the media creating a toxic situation for a player is their own fault? It is Mitch’s fault that the fans turn on him? Is it it all the previous players that we have chased out faults too? Ridiculous
50% tax, 5% agent fees, 10% escrow (probably on the lower end of what it would be tbh) and you’re already down to 35% left over for the player at the end of the year
Bro stop saying leaf’s shouldn’t have fired dubas. Dubas constructed a completely garbage team. He got embarrassed in negotiations. McCabe is a #5 defender at best and he’s leafs 2nd best defender. Marner isn’t the problem, the garbage team construction is. The defense is trash at best
Even if the Leafs do decide to move on from Marner, isn't it like 99% likely that it happens in july once he's paid most of his salary for the year? I for one hope they do move him, and I'm also tired of the rumors.
The idea of him removing his NMC is going to cost the Leafs a lot of money that will also hit the cap for next season. Players don't do this for nothing.
Something that is not being talked about: if you expect Marner ( or any player) to waive their NMC, what is that going to cost the team? He could say 'yes' I agree to remove the clause, but I want $5 million to do so. And that money would be part of next seasons salary cap total .
I propose that until we're in July, for the sake of our own sanity, we just completely ignore any whispers around Marner, unless an official trade report is dropped. Anything we're hearing now are agents and the team trying to angle for their best possible deal. It's just noise with no substance behind it. If we go combing over every "report," and every "insider scoop" that provides nothing of value, we're going to go insane. Well, more insane than we already are.
Steve nailed it - it’s Daren Farris that’s the problem. Most other top guys in the NHL talk openly in their contract year about wanting to get a deal done, being happy with they are, and leaving it to their agent. Mitch goes dark and allows Ferris to speak publicly on his behalf. Ferris, however, speaks in a manner designed solely to maximize his client’s negotiating position - this is the agents primary goal but NOT his only goal. His client’s wellbeing, overall, is the agent’s responsibility. And in this sense, Ferris fails Mitch by casting him in a light that turned the fans on him in the negotiation 5 years ago, and now here we go again. All Mitch wanted was the be a beloved leaf for his hometown team - he was always gonna get paid. I wonder if in Mitch understands that extra $800,000 per year or whatever it was that Ferris’s tactics got him is the primary cause for how the city’s perception of him changing; given how emotional Mitch appears to be about fan perception, I bet he’d gladly give that 3% of his salary back if he knew it would change this. Instead, you’re gonna get Larry Murphy’d out of town, with the bulk of the fan base just happy to be rid of you. Sad.
Why does Toronto keep giving out no trade clauses on these ridiculous contracts. The only time you give a no trade clause is for a star player that signs a truly team friendly contract.
Fans need to calm their tits. We are painting ourselves into a corner. The reality is that Marner can and likely will veto any trade and just the fact that he can do that gives management zero leverage with him and also with any potential trade partner. This is going to suck but it is because of the existing contract signed under Dubas. So if you ( or Steve Dangle) are going to have a hissy fit when Marner walks as a free agent, you might as well have it now rather than expect that management is going to be able to turn Marner into a top pair D prospects and/or draft picks. That isn't going to happen. The best we can hope for is cap space and there is value in that.
Not necessarily. If Marner has an idea of where he’d like to go as a UFA next year, and that club also wants him, the Leafs may be able to work out a trade to send him there now rather than later. They won’t get nearly as much of a return as they would have a year ago, but that’s water under the bridge.
@@RJM1693 Imagine you are the GM of the one team Marner would agree to go to. You know you have the Leafs by the short and curlies. You aren't going to trade for Marner unless you can do a sign and trade. You are going to offer next to nothing. Why would you? You could just hold your offer and make it at the end of the season and it costs you nothing.
@@jwpercy When a player is in his prime, and has been that good, it is really difficult to let him go. If one of the four needs to go , look at the oldest one who's best before date is past. But again, getting any player with a NMC to agree to a trade is going to be difficult and perhaps costly.
This team from the president down to the players seems constantly afraid of making mistakes. Their fear of getting fleeced in a Marner deal is gonna be a huge roadblock to this franchise making any changes or showing any significant improvement.
The front office is not willing to be ruthless, and do whatever it takes to win. They run this team like they're playing franchise mode in NHL 24, where they can accumulate all this young talent and be OK. They don't want to run this team in the real world, where change is a must if they want to win.
Asset management has been the Leafs biggest issue. Treliving is not the right guy to handle this situation. Tkachuck is in the finals 2x Huberdeau will never see 60 points again.
I have always thought Treliving was a bizarre hire for the Leafs. Eric Francis (who covers the Flames for Sportsnet) absolutely pumped Treliving's tires when he left Calgary regarding his desirability as an executive. I just don't get it. His resume in Calgary was extremely middling, they won 2 playoff series in a decade, and it's not hard to find examples of fumbled trades, draft picks and everything in between. He then went balls out and absolutely screwed the Flames on the way out to boot. This is the same guy who immediately signed Ryan Reaves to multiple years after being hired after all.
This whole contract with Marner was on mngt. If you remember that when they were negotiating with Nylander, Marners camp said that Marner would sign for 8.5mil. They pushed that to the side until they had Nylander signed and Marner put up ninety point's which lead to a 10.9mil deal. Until Marner's camp says different Marner will not be going anywhere. The one thing that Marner probably hasn't taken into account is the Leaf's fan base. Remember Larry Murphy the Leaf fan's booed him everytime he hit the ice until traded. This fan base can be nasty why would you want that. Cheerz 🍻
Here's the problem, he plus 21, and has better stats than most of the players the have rattled off with less games played. Most of the players they compared him to only make a few million less at most. Trading Marner by itself won't fix the player base problem that they have, unless they can get a true number one defensemen for him, which isn't likely. I also think Bérubé will probably like the challenge of running it back and winning with the same core.
It makes most sense for Mitch just to play out his contract and leave to say Pittsburgh if Dubas offers Mitch the highest offer. 😀Marner doesn’t owe Leaf Fans or Leaf Executives anything.
@@Rick-C-117 Agreed. But only until his contract expires at the end of next season. It is too bad Mitch didn’t acquire the skills necessary to thrive with playoff officiating. But he and Blake Wheeler have had some pretty good 90 point years. 😀
Steve you're wrong. We ran Kadri because he couldn't do it in the playoffs, we ran Freddy out because he couldn't do it in the playoffs, Larry Murphy, Lanny McDonald. There's a reason it's been 60 years because we keep trading away our great players before they have their best playoff years.
Honestly, trading Marner isn't necessary. Let him play out his deal, and if he goes as a UFA, then fine. Stop giving out NMC's! Fix the D and get a goalie. Let some kids play. Its not like you're going to build a cup winner next season anyway. I just hope they don't spend too much for Bert and Domi.
How can they fix the D and goalie situation with no money? Or sign Bertuzzi or Domi to deals that they're worth. Should they be expected to take less just so this team can accommodate Marner, who himself, didn't take less?
@@pomerlain8924 Domi specifically is not worth what he’ll want maybe even Bert too although at least he shoots but domi wasn’t doing well before matthews line proves to me he needs him like to the point I’m actually doubtful he would’ve broke even 30 points and matthews was playing just as well without him he’s not worth the 4-6 million his playmaking skills are ok but way overhyped with both of those two guys that’s 12 million in cap space spent if their agents make them go for the highest pay I’m not sure I’d want that when we need dman and goalie
“Actually staying” Well yeah, where else is he going? Leaf fans are delusional if they think they’d get anything of value here. Why would someone give you anything of value, for doing you a favor?
The salary cap room is valuable. Any assets they get in return is just a bonus. They screwed this up already by not trading him when it would have been easier. Holding out for a good return on the trade is just throwing good money after bad.
@@RJM1693 That’s what I keep saying, I’m sure you can move him (assuming he agrees)….. but I’m reading and seeing all the leaf fans talk about how much the return is going to be, or “I wouldn’t trade him for just that…. Ya gotta get more”
The fact that the front office is even remotely considering running this back again with the distraction it provides shows me they don't want to win. They want a good regular season team that falls in the first round, usually in 7 games. Shanahan is fast becoming as bad of an NHL executive as Michael Jordan was an NBA executive.
I think the team actually wants to keeps marner, that's why they got the new GM to help to not have a crazy contract. Though they also are putting the pressure on marner through the media to either take a sweetheart deal to come out looking good, otherwise they'll play it off like it's all his fault they had no options. Meanwhile it wasn't the marnerplan, it was the shanaplan but yea blaming one player to the point they're driven out of town just to lose the next year is a Toronto thing to do.
Full disclosure: I'm from Montreal. I've been a Hab fan for over 60 years. I liked the Leafs in the 60s. I did not like them during the Harold Ballard years. I liked the early 90s Pat Burns, Doug Gilmour years. Didn't like the Matt Sundin Leafs. The teams that I liked coincided with good management and vice versa. They are in a pickle now because of their management from several years ago and presently. Maybe their president is taking his marching orders from the owners. Whatever or whomever, they know nothing about winning hockey, when it really counts. Of course, Albert Einstein's analogy, referenced here (there and everywhere) is correct. I and many other said before the 2024 playoffs began that the Leafs were not built for the playoffs. Personally, I feel that they have a few prima donnas that coach Keefe could not or would not cross. I said at that time that the Leafs do not want to win the Cup. In other words and in plain English, they were not prepared to give up some of their strengths to patch up their obvious glaring weaknesses. David Savard would have helped them with his shot blocking, net clearing and leadership skills. Habs GM would have wisely asked for Cowan, Minton or a 1st round pick and that's a non starter, right? Because the Leafs have to think about their future! When this future eventually comes, it says here that the Core Four will be in decline. Tampa Bay recently won two Stanley Cups. They mortgaged some of their future but they won two Stanley Cups. In the 60s, the Chicago Black Hawks dominated the All Star teams, the regular season standings and the awards. They won one cup. The two teams , Montreal and Toronto, that didn't do that won ALL of the other cups. They were balanced with a few stars. They put the logo on the front of their jersey before the name on the back of the jersey, even though there were no names on the back then. I said a few years ago, "Don't sign John Tavares for that money and that term, as you we regret it down the road, to wit, you will hobble or handicap your salary cap." I wanted Mitch Marner traded two years ago as his playoff trend was not your friend. Absolutely last year, for sure. So now, the Core 4 have no trade contracts. You can't move them. You are dreaming in technicolor if you think that they will acquiesce to a trade. Not going to happen. They are in the driver's seat and they know it. Surely the Leaf management know it too. Too late, that is. They like playing in Toronto, the fans' adulation (Ask Mitch, he'll tell you) and of course their terrific salaries. Mathews getting 69 goals was their Stanley Cup. He's a bit more of a complete player now, but I swear that a little over three years ago, I didn't recall him throwing a body check during that round one series loss to Montreal. Of course, Steve Dangle is right, we can expect more of the same next Spring. He does not want to be privy to it and I don't blame him. Will he keep his word, though? Marner backed Willy during his hold out for a tremendous salary. Does anybody in their right mind think that he would not do the same for himself? He will not accept a trade. He will ask for a sweet raise without the hometown discount. The Leafs will not/should not give it to him. In which case, he will walk to free agency in about a year from now and write his ticket with a better balanced team with good coaching. I would have traded ALL of the Core Four before the season started, including Matthews. I would rebuild this team in a methodical smart winning way. Draft choices, youth, prospects and a lot of cap space. I would emphasize goal tending and defence. Who just won the Cup a few hours ago? 'Nuff said. Most of the Conn Smythe (ironically named after a Leaf) winners for the last 60 years have been goal tenders. Going into the playoffs past, present or future with Samsonov/Woll is a delusional idea. Unless you don't want to win the Cup. Going into the playoffs with that defence on a wing and a prayer illustrates a severe lack of hockey as it is supposed to be played. So what can be done now? They picked up a dolt GM from Calgary who let two stars walk for basically nothing. To clear cap space for Kadri, he gave the Habs Monahan who played well here and afforded us two 1st round picks in the offing. There is no way out now. You can't even get creative, FOR YEARS!! The Core Four have no trade contracts. They are out for themselves, as they should be. Come up with a solution, but there is no solution. You are in a pickle. You can wait out the contracts and let them walk for nothing. There is NO other way. And no, the Core 4 plus one will not suddenly find a way and do what they haven't been able to do in around ten years. Not going to happen and even if they decided to grow a pair come April you are stuck with that poor defence and goal tending. That is all
Ok something I need to "correct" Professional athletes don't take "Salary" they set up professional corporations and get tax corporately. They are only taxed on the money they are pulling out, plus can add family to the corp and all that. Individual Tax rates arent what these people pay
All the sports journalists and pod cast speak of Leaf core player trades. All of them have NMC including Morgan Reilly. If they don't want to go management is handcuffed. Its 54.3 mill for 5 players that have all the power to stay
just to confirm though, you would have had to trade Marner off before July 1st of 23, AND you would have taken a massive pay hit, because MLSE, agreed to PREPAY his contract by close to 9 mil before the end of the 22-23 season, Marner had a silent NMC, Leafs would have been taking a massive salary loss of close to 9 mil prior to the 23-24 season. How many first round picks constitutes 9 mill worth? and then you have to get another team to agree to giving you that many!!! Welcome to the club Leafs, Sens are in the same position.
@lordrayden3045 mitch seems like he let's agent run his mouth and talk for him. I get a "don't worry this is my job, you just play hockey" vibe from his agent. While he's ruining Mitchs image of course
His agent needs to be fired. Mitch needs to hire another one, if I were him I'd consult with Berube about some names. Use it to build a bridge with your new coach if you do genuinely want to stay
@@Alexdenomme However….. Like I said previously, the agent works for the player So all the collateral damage, while it’s the agent talking, he’s doing it on behalf of the client / player
Blame management for these contracts and no move clauses. Marner is not only not going to be traded, he will be resigned. They will run the same group back this?year and next summer they will finally have tavaras off the books given them some payroll flexibility to fix this mess.
Am i the only one who sees the irony in jesse saying to move marner and the trio doesnt work when he won a cup with the trio and he kept them in franchise mode? XD
Thats impossible dude. The highest tax bracket in 2024 is 33% and thats on anything above 248k, Injust looked it up. Even if we used 33% on 10.9, his take home is 7.3mill. Not sure about your math there.@ScottStenlund-ys8iq
My understanding is Tavares could come back for a much lower price whereas Marner’s UFA price will actually go up. So they might actually keep Tavares.
Tavares is older, but much better in the playoffs. I think we all agree that this isnt about the reg season, it's abiut building a contender, not a perennial loser. Marner can help retain the assets that should help. Like a top goalie or a solid d man.
This is the problem. You're focusing too much on not running it back next year & the fact that the team can't win with 4 players hogging up 50% of the cap. Yes, we all agree it's not a formula for success but if we need to be real with ourselves and realize that never year was never going to be our 'optimal' year to win the cup. Why? 1. We don't have our first, second, third or fourth 2025 draft picks or second, fourth 2026 picks to trade at the deadline AND we should not trade any of our current best prospects (cupboards are already thin). This means we can't be buyers at the deadline. 2. Goalie situation needs clarification, our current #1 goalie is Joseph Woll who Tre admitted is injury prone and likely a 1B goalie for now (not dependent to play 40+ games). 3. We need at least 2 more quality pairing D. Losing Gio, Brodie, Liljegren hasn't panned out in the playoffs so far, Timmons even less. If they can't get 2 more quality (Roy, Walker, Pesce, Montour, Skjei) D, it doesn't matter whether they trade Marner or not, we'll always run into the same problem in the playoffs. Our lack of scoring isn't just our 4 players making 40+mill. It's the fact that we aren't efficiently moving the puck up from D -> O/creating good zone entries/jumping up on the play effectively from our backend. Every sports media outlet/personality/insider keeps bringing up Marner, 1 player and you're repeating the same mistake management has made in the past but this time in reverse. The above steps and realistically assessing our team going into next year and beyond with and without Marner along with the moves we can make regardless of whether we trade him or not are far more important.
Not a Leafs fan but I never hear anyone bitching about Tavares contract which to me is the worst out of the core 4. I would take any of the other 3 contracts without blinking on my team.
When star players are traded they USUALLY don't get fair value back (thinking Thorton to San Jose, Jagr to Rangers) so I don't know how much the Leafs are gonna get back on a expiring deal. I'd say do what you can to help the back end with $18 million and sign a backup goalie. Even if they don't sign Bertuzzi and Domi their forward depth is pretty good with Cowan and Minten likely on the way, and with Tavares coming off next year and cap going up they'll be able to keep Marner.
@@johnsummerhill8323 minten started on the 3rd line before being sent back to ohl. Should be on roster not to mention Robertson and McMann full time players. Their forward group should be set Knies-Matthews-Nylander, McMann-Tavares-Marner, Robertson-Minten-Jankork, Holmberg-Kampf-Reaves. tverberg might be NHL ready as well. They could always bring Domi back as third line centre as well
@@christopherrego8706 I will guarantee you that Minten will be a Marlie.He was not allowed due to age, to play in the AHL so he was sent back to junior. He will need to spend at least 2 years in the AHL before he will be NHL ready.
That's not how offer sheets work. Either you get one issued to you and you sign it, and then the team can match. Or you don't. It's not a negotiating tool. The rumor was two offer sheets were on the table. And Toronto knew 2 offer sheets were on the table. But Mitch had no interest in signing either and wanted to stay in Toronto.
@@exturkconner offer sheets are totally a negotiating tool. What the hell are you talking about? If an agent can coax another team to submit an offer sheet then they can totally use that to put pressure on the current team.
All Leaf players that have NMCs and all free agents are watching the Leafs to see how they live up to good faith bargained contracts. How do they treat guys?
With the way Vegas and Tampa treated players. I’m pretty sure that the leafs fans won’t care. Marner should be made miserable if he refuses to move the ntc.
Maybe the leafs will learn to not sign players with a no move clause. They have to run it back because Marner is in control If Marner does agree to waive Maybe Matthews will be right behind him, he’s seeing how his best bro is being treated
Guarantee you someone would give him that if he hits UFA status. There will be someone who looks at him and looks at their roster and thinks "We can insulate him better" or "we've got the kind of culture that will get him to thrive in the playoffs" or heck even "just getting to the playoffs is a lot better than we've done thus far let's get him and see what happens in the playoffs". He's a consistent 90 point player anyone with cap space (and probably vegas and new york too) will be asking for him
@@adamn7777if you need to insulate a player, you’re not giving him $12M. No one is giving him more than $10M next offseason especially when he competing against a players like Rantanen and Draisaitl for dollars.
Fans want heads, but when I look at this 1. Would you rather have Marner on your team or 2. Be playing against him? .. Guess all we can do it sit back and see what happens. Contracts were terrible, blame Dubas and Shanny for those. Treliving for Nylanders 11.5mil ... lol.
Steve, my lord. Do you think players main concern is if they are liked? Pay me. Want to trade me? Pay me. Want me to stay? Pay me. Oh and no trade clause equals....pay me.
Shanny has no incentive to get rid of Marner. If Mitch gets booted and it makes the team better it invalidates him stubbornly sticking to his plan for the last near decade and proves Brad’s vision for the team is better. If however, Mitch turns it around in the post season and rips it up Shanny will be validated and it might save his job. Shanny has hitched his wagon to the core 4 and will either be vindicated or go down with the ship.
If Marner won't agree to a trade or is very restrictive with the number of teams he'll go to put him on the 4th line only playing 8 minutes per game. He'll be crying to Ferris the Leafs aren't fair, that should change his mind fairly quickly imo.
Something gives me the feeling that losing Marner over Tavares would be a mistake. We all know how players who left Toronto ended up. I’d be ok if they kept Matthews, Nylander and Marner. But Marners role needs to change. I think Burube could do that. Mitch isn’t worth anything over 10 mil.
What if Marner really intends on staying in Toronto next season? What if Marner provides 3 teams and none of them are in a hurry to take on a 11 million dollar contract.
Is Marner actually worth $12m on the open market? Seems like that’s based on the assumption of a raise over what the Leafs are paying him but they’re already paying him more than any other team in the league would. I think he’d be lucky to get his current AAV from another team.
Brad screwed up on Nylander. He didnt want the heat after what went down in Calgary. And of course, contract year Nylander shows up. You cant keep both. Nylander or Marner, pick one.
This is becoming the messiest negotiation of the off season in a very long time. Marners agent is dragging Marners name through the mud, and making it so difficult for Marner to stay becuase of the media and fan speculation is rife. His agent need sto either be let go (yeah, right), or tell Marner to go and give the Leafs his list of teams that he would like to go to ASAP.
Actually, it isn't messy at all. Neither side is talking about it. It is the media trying to sell advertising that is making it look like an issue and the Dumbo fans are buying into it.
Wrong focus on trading Marner in the last season of his contract. Who cares if Leafs run this core 4 one more year, there's already been years of upset, what's one more? One more year isn't going to break MLSE, Leafs will still do well in regular season but likely fall in 1st/2nd round. What's one more year for a rebuild when Tavares/Marner contracts are up? Why is there so much focus on trading for Marner if it the Leafs can't get a good deal out of it? Yes management made bad decisions in the past by not moving Marner earlier but the Leafs are where they are now. To make a bad trade vs waiting another year is the real question that should be addressed.
First mistake was a barely ppg player to $11M and the young guys with smart agents took notice of that. Considering they all demanded so much after that. They really should have traded one if not both of the wingers a long time ago. All too late now boyssss 🎉🎉🎉
Core 4 is not working (too much money up front). Moving Marner makes the most sense. Play Marner on the 4th line for a couple of months. He will accept a trade.
Here's the fun thing about winning, you can't win if you don't make the playoffs. If they can make a solid deal, then I don't mind them trading Marner, but we're talking about a 100 point player who kills penalties and QB's the powerplay... The odds of the Leafs "getting better" by trading away Marner is close to zero, that's simply the harsh reality. Oh yeah, and I know people like to pretend he's a ghost in the playoffs, but Marner still has 50 points in 57 career playoff games, it was almost like he had a rough playoff this year because he was clearly playing with a f**ked up ankle that hadn't properly healed yet, but I'm sure that's "just an excuse"...
Well, Marner's not going to a crap team, and the good teams don't conveniently have $11mil to sink into ONE player unless salary is coming back the other way. The team that's trading for him has to convince him to sign an extension for $13mil or more...
This team is literally the definition of insanity
It's not. Not even a little bit.
@@exturkconnerthey have literally done the same thing for YEARS
@@BrentRushton That's not the definition of insanity. For example you know what doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result can be? It can be practicing. You know what happens when you practice? You get a different result. You improve. That statement isn't a definition it was a quote from a novel. And it's a dumb quote from a novel.
the definition of insanity is using an expression over and over and expecting people to think you're clever
Look up insanity definition. Not the einstein quote
Paying 4 forwards half the cap with no trade clauses, before they’ve done anything, is the definition of management malpractice. Fire everyone and start over.
Exactly
was going to type this too, this team has been mismanaged since the very beginning. Now we have 4 expensive underachievers taking up almost half the cap space
CAP is going up....
@@robinirving8307 The rising cap will be cancelled out by the new raises for Nylander and Matthews that will begin next season.
They also give Kampf and Jarnkrok M-NTC contracts, now that was just pure foolishness. Simmonds even had one before his contract expired.
Adam: “flames is the worst managed team….”
Leafs: let’s hire their former gm
Some of the last moves Treliving did while in charge of the Flames was give Huberdeau that insane contract and pay Montreal a 1st round pick to take Sean Monahan for nothing
@@adamn7777 and he's back to firing coaches.
I can't agree with this comment enough. It was painful living in Calgary watching Johnny G and Tkachuck leave for overpaid Kadri and Huberdeau.
Treliving can't be trusted to make a good trade even if they get Marner to wave.
@@SpeedandSplendor Johnny G and Tkachuk both wanted out. At least Tkachuk gave Tree the heads up he wasn't coming back. Johnny just strung him along.
@@SpeedandSplendor I have never understood why Brad Treliving is so highly regarded as a hockey executive. His resume in Calgary was not great, I have no idea how he lasted 10 years there.
Sign him. Let him get you to the post season every year then put him on the LTIR every March before the deadline and out-Vegas the Gnights
yeah...that 1 month of LTIR is really going to make all of the difference...
Sadly, in order to out-Vegas the Golden Knights, that requires a track record of Final 4 appearances. Vegas has done that 4 times in 7 seasons. Which is enough to stew jealousy. The last time Toronto made the ECF was 2002.
It all comes down to when it’s playoff hockey and he sees Sam Bennett Matthew Tkachuk and so on.. He isn’t built for the playoffs!!!! He is junior player.
Marner could have been a hometown hero, but instead most fans can’t stand him and can’t wait till he’s gone.
Not true.
Can’t wait to move on from Marner. The worst Leaf ever.
@@nuttica You must be 5 years old.
@@johnsummerhill8323 sorry to offend your son
@@nutticaStupid statements are easy for dummies it seems.
This situation is going to define how the rest of the Core 4 era plays out in Toronto. Who they sign in the future. Who they decide to keep. Who they can afford to keep. The names they can go after in a playoff push. This whole team hinges on how Leafs management plays their cards with Marner's camp. It's easy to get emotional. They can't afford to let emotions change their course of action. IMO, if you want the Leafs to win a Cup, they have to do it without Marner. Not because of all this crap, but because of missed opportunities from previous seasons. It's clear that the Marner camp wants to play hardball. Then go play hardball. Find whatever leverage you have, cling to it, flex it, trade the player, and use the cap space to get those missing ingredients. Do whatever you can to win.
As for Marner, if he gets his money, good for him. But I hope he realizes that this looming circus could cause some serious PR damage that he won't be able to shake. No matter how well he plays.
And the boys are right about Shanny. If the Leafs botch this, it's on his shoulders, and he needs to be turfed for it.
Last 3 seasons:
Hyman in 46 playoff games.. 28 goals.
Leafs core 4 in 95 playoff games... 34 goals.
@Zarion106 except the leafs only played in 25 playoff games in the last 3 seasons.
Not relevant
He added up esch players games. Excluded z couple for injury might be off by a couple. @steve8803
Where did you get 95 games from?
Thank you for being fair and contextual about the information you were providing regarding Marner. I don't see this often enough, Adam.
Leaf fans need to start playing ‘would you rather,’ instead of this delusional talk about Leaf management winning a trade involving this player.
Right now Leaf’s management is at would you rather lose Marner for nothing next offseason or trade him where the team has to bring back a bad contract with term? Think players like PLD or Seth Jones?
ThEy DoN’t HaVe To Do ThAt! Yes they do. No team is willing to take $10M in cap space for nothing. If cap space is valuable to the Leafs, it’s valuable to 31 other franchises.
Don’t also put it past the Marner camp to leak the one destination he is willing to be traded to in the media removing all leverage from the team of trying to create a market.
Doing nothing IS something. It’s punting a year and waiting for $15-16M clear off the books with JT and Marner. Everyone sees JT resigning for less. 4-5M. Letting Marner walk doesn’t mean you lose him for nothing. You get the cap space.
You also get a full year to see which players perform under the new coach, get his input on what’s needed to build around Austin and Willy and go from there. These playoffs should be an indication on how far off the Leafs are from actually competing. The team doesn’t need to go for it every year.
I like the last option
It’s painful how Mitch could have been one of the most beloved Leafs of all time and instead seeing his face makes me sick
I feel the same way with Yashin in Ottawa. And then the financial convos began...
That’s a you problem. That is what the media has done to you. Develop this hatred towards him so a trade can be justified by the media… all in the name of hits and views. Vilify a great player …
If he is traded (which I doubt)… he will go on and win and do well. Might even win a cup. Again. Look at our past for proof!! Chased out all our stars. Most went on and won a cup.
Lol. Sounds like Tavares on Long Island.
And it's entirely his own doing.
@@niroshank7859 So explain how the media creating a toxic situation for a player is their own fault?
It is Mitch’s fault that the fans turn on him? Is it it all the previous players that we have chased out faults too?
Ridiculous
I love listening to you guys! You give me so much hope for this team before organization does the opposite.
For Adam. "One take to rule them all, one take to find them, one take to bring them all, and in the darkness, bind them.
I would have never signed Tavaras and I would have traded Marner in his prime. Use the extra cash to beef up the D and fill out the forward positions.
30-35% .. is that a joke? - That actually can't be right. With that kinda money, you've gotta have somebody working to get that number higher. Right?
50% tax, 5% agent fees, 10% escrow (probably on the lower end of what it would be tbh) and you’re already down to 35% left over for the player at the end of the year
If he says he's going to UFA you bench him for the entire year
Man that was a great segment !
NEW TEAM POLICY: NO MORE NO TRADE CONTRACTS!!
Bro stop saying leaf’s shouldn’t have fired dubas. Dubas constructed a completely garbage team. He got embarrassed in negotiations. McCabe is a #5 defender at best and he’s leafs 2nd best defender. Marner isn’t the problem, the garbage team construction is. The defense is trash at best
Can’t afford a better D because they’ve spent way too much on the Core. Mitch is a part of that, no?
@@Rain.34.89 weak gm caving to every player, I don’t blame him. Fire shanny for giving dubas the job
Dubas doesnt belong in the nhl he belongs in collage hockey coaching not gming men
I feel I could tell how this was going to go as soon as I saw Steve feel pain... lets see how it goes....
Teams are not dumb. It’s gonna be very very hard for the leafs to trade Marner especially with that no trade clause. He holds the cards it seems.
30-40% take home pay? I don’t think so.
Marner stacks those sponsorship deals too, so his almost 12 million is just a start of his earnings .
Smart man take advantage of a dumb organization
Even if the Leafs do decide to move on from Marner, isn't it like 99% likely that it happens in july once he's paid most of his salary for the year?
I for one hope they do move him, and I'm also tired of the rumors.
The idea of him removing his NMC is going to cost the Leafs a lot of money that will also hit the cap for next season. Players don't do this for nothing.
I've never seen a sports franchise so afraid of ripping off the bandaid.
Well it’s pretty understandable. Look at how former Toronto players have ended up. Kadri and Kessel ended up winning a cup.
Something that is not being talked about: if you expect Marner ( or any player) to waive their NMC, what is that going to cost the team? He could say 'yes' I agree to remove the clause, but I want $5 million to do so. And that money would be part of next seasons salary cap total .
I propose that until we're in July, for the sake of our own sanity, we just completely ignore any whispers around Marner, unless an official trade report is dropped. Anything we're hearing now are agents and the team trying to angle for their best possible deal. It's just noise with no substance behind it. If we go combing over every "report," and every "insider scoop" that provides nothing of value, we're going to go insane.
Well, more insane than we already are.
Marner isn’t getting traded. Get over it
Steve nailed it - it’s Daren Farris that’s the problem. Most other top guys in the NHL talk openly in their contract year about wanting to get a deal done, being happy with they are, and leaving it to their agent. Mitch goes dark and allows Ferris to speak publicly on his behalf. Ferris, however, speaks in a manner designed solely to maximize his client’s negotiating position - this is the agents primary goal but NOT his only goal. His client’s wellbeing, overall, is the agent’s responsibility. And in this sense, Ferris fails Mitch by casting him in a light that turned the fans on him in the negotiation 5 years ago, and now here we go again. All Mitch wanted was the be a beloved leaf for his hometown team - he was always gonna get paid. I wonder if in Mitch understands that extra $800,000 per year or whatever it was that Ferris’s tactics got him is the primary cause for how the city’s perception of him changing; given how emotional Mitch appears to be about fan perception, I bet he’d gladly give that 3% of his salary back if he knew it would change this. Instead, you’re gonna get Larry Murphy’d out of town, with the bulk of the fan base just happy to be rid of you. Sad.
In about 2-3 years there going to be going crazy over the Nylander contract hahahhaha
Why does Toronto keep giving out no trade clauses on these ridiculous contracts. The only time you give a no trade clause is for a star player that signs a truly team friendly contract.
Fans need to calm their tits. We are painting ourselves into a corner. The reality is that Marner can and likely will veto any trade and just the fact that he can do that gives management zero leverage with him and also with any potential trade partner. This is going to suck but it is because of the existing contract signed under Dubas.
So if you ( or Steve Dangle) are going to have a hissy fit when Marner walks as a free agent, you might as well have it now rather than expect that management is going to be able to turn Marner into a top pair D prospects and/or draft picks. That isn't going to happen. The best we can hope for is cap space and there is value in that.
Not necessarily.
If Marner has an idea of where he’d like to go as a UFA next year, and that club also wants him, the Leafs may be able to work out a trade to send him there now rather than later.
They won’t get nearly as much of a return as they would have a year ago, but that’s water under the bridge.
@@RJM1693 Imagine you are the GM of the one team Marner would agree to go to. You know you have the Leafs by the short and curlies. You aren't going to trade for Marner unless you can do a sign and trade. You are going to offer next to nothing. Why would you? You could just hold your offer and make it at the end of the season and it costs you nothing.
He is going to follow Nylander 's path. Remember when everyone was crapping on Nylander last year? Insert Marner's name this year.
@@johnsummerhill8323 Perhaps that is what he wants to do. I'm not so sure the Leafs want to continue to use his cap space on a single forward.
@@jwpercy When a player is in his prime, and has been that good, it is really difficult to let him go. If one of the four needs to go , look at the oldest one who's best before date is past. But again, getting any player with a NMC to agree to a trade is going to be difficult and perhaps costly.
Hey Steve, should we run it back again?
Can the team just announce they're not talking to certain agents anymore?
This team from the president down to the players seems constantly afraid of making mistakes. Their fear of getting fleeced in a Marner deal is gonna be a huge roadblock to this franchise making any changes or showing any significant improvement.
i have said the same thing so many times, they are afraid and it's going to cost them in the future
The front office is not willing to be ruthless, and do whatever it takes to win. They run this team like they're playing franchise mode in NHL 24, where they can accumulate all this young talent and be OK. They don't want to run this team in the real world, where change is a must if they want to win.
@@pomerlain8924 Them being ruthless would be great but at this point but I would take them not being constantly scared of failure or criticism.
Asset management has been the Leafs biggest issue. Treliving is not the right guy to handle this situation. Tkachuck is in the finals 2x Huberdeau will never see 60 points again.
if you get rid of marner and the leafs still dont get past the first round then what? or you realize you got rid of the wrong player
Imagine they get rid of Marner then miss the playoffs…
Part of the process
@@quackingplatypusThat is likely to happen.
I have always thought Treliving was a bizarre hire for the Leafs. Eric Francis (who covers the Flames for Sportsnet) absolutely pumped Treliving's tires when he left Calgary regarding his desirability as an executive. I just don't get it.
His resume in Calgary was extremely middling, they won 2 playoff series in a decade, and it's not hard to find examples of fumbled trades, draft picks and everything in between. He then went balls out and absolutely screwed the Flames on the way out to boot. This is the same guy who immediately signed Ryan Reaves to multiple years after being hired after all.
Paying Rielly 7.5 and Brodie 5.5 is crazy. Zadorov and Montour would be cheaper and better.
This whole contract with Marner was on mngt. If you remember that when they were negotiating with Nylander, Marners camp said that Marner would sign for 8.5mil. They pushed that to the side until they had Nylander signed and Marner put up ninety point's which lead to a 10.9mil deal. Until Marner's camp says different Marner will not be going anywhere. The one thing that Marner probably hasn't taken into account is the Leaf's fan base. Remember Larry Murphy the Leaf fan's booed him everytime he hit the ice until traded. This fan base can be nasty why would you want that. Cheerz 🍻
The weird thing is marner has the most points in the playoffs out of them all.
Flames also got Weegar and a '25 first round pick besides Huberdeau.
Here's the problem, he plus 21, and has better stats than most of the players the have rattled off with less games played. Most of the players they compared him to only make a few million less at most. Trading Marner by itself won't fix the player base problem that they have, unless they can get a true number one defensemen for him, which isn't likely. I also think Bérubé will probably like the challenge of running it back and winning with the same core.
What Playoff Team, from this year. Will make biggest splash in Free Agency?
It makes most sense for Mitch just to play out his contract and leave to say Pittsburgh if Dubas offers Mitch the highest offer. 😀Marner doesn’t owe Leaf Fans or Leaf Executives anything.
He owes the fans some effort.
@@Rick-C-117 Agreed. But only until his contract expires at the end of next season. It is too bad Mitch didn’t acquire the skills necessary to thrive with playoff officiating. But he and Blake Wheeler have had some pretty good 90 point years. 😀
Steve you're wrong. We ran Kadri because he couldn't do it in the playoffs, we ran Freddy out because he couldn't do it in the playoffs, Larry Murphy, Lanny McDonald. There's a reason it's been 60 years because we keep trading away our great players before they have their best playoff years.
Honestly, trading Marner isn't necessary. Let him play out his deal, and if he goes as a UFA, then fine. Stop giving out NMC's! Fix the D and get a goalie. Let some kids play. Its not like you're going to build a cup winner next season anyway. I just hope they don't spend too much for Bert and Domi.
How can they fix the D and goalie situation with no money? Or sign Bertuzzi or Domi to deals that they're worth. Should they be expected to take less just so this team can accommodate Marner, who himself, didn't take less?
@@pomerlain8924 Domi specifically is not worth what he’ll want maybe even Bert too although at least he shoots but domi wasn’t doing well before matthews line proves to me he needs him like to the point I’m actually doubtful he would’ve broke even 30 points and matthews was playing just as well without him he’s not worth the 4-6 million his playmaking skills are ok but way overhyped with both of those two guys that’s 12 million in cap space spent if their agents make them go for the highest pay I’m not sure I’d want that when we need dman and goalie
“Actually staying”
Well yeah, where else is he going?
Leaf fans are delusional if they think they’d get anything of value here. Why would someone give you anything of value, for doing you a favor?
I bet the capitals want Marner. If he goes it's to that team. I bet my life on it
The salary cap room is valuable. Any assets they get in return is just a bonus.
They screwed this up already by not trading him when it would have been easier. Holding out for a good return on the trade is just throwing good money after bad.
@@RJM1693
That’s what I keep saying, I’m sure you can move him (assuming he agrees)….. but I’m reading and seeing all the leaf fans talk about how much the return is going to be, or “I wouldn’t trade him for just that…. Ya gotta get more”
The fact that the front office is even remotely considering running this back again with the distraction it provides shows me they don't want to win. They want a good regular season team that falls in the first round, usually in 7 games. Shanahan is fast becoming as bad of an NHL executive as Michael Jordan was an NBA executive.
I think the team actually wants to keeps marner, that's why they got the new GM to help to not have a crazy contract. Though they also are putting the pressure on marner through the media to either take a sweetheart deal to come out looking good, otherwise they'll play it off like it's all his fault they had no options. Meanwhile it wasn't the marnerplan, it was the shanaplan but yea blaming one player to the point they're driven out of town just to lose the next year is a Toronto thing to do.
Morgan and Mitch need to pack their bags RIGHT NOW!!!! Keep Johnny if and next season he signs a hometown contract plays on the 3rd line.
Interesting piece i learned via this episode is Marner only takes home 30/40%
Didn't think that much dough went to the man
Going to Vegas for Steve
Full disclosure: I'm from Montreal. I've been a Hab fan for over 60 years. I liked the Leafs in the 60s. I did not like them during the Harold Ballard years. I liked the early 90s Pat Burns, Doug Gilmour years. Didn't like the Matt Sundin Leafs. The teams that I liked coincided with good management and vice versa. They are in a pickle now because of their management from several years ago and presently. Maybe their president is taking his marching orders from the owners. Whatever or whomever, they know nothing about winning hockey, when it really counts. Of course, Albert Einstein's analogy, referenced here (there and everywhere) is correct. I and many other said before the 2024 playoffs began that the Leafs were not built for the playoffs. Personally, I feel that they have a few prima donnas that coach Keefe could not or would not cross. I said at that time that the Leafs do not want to win the Cup. In other words and in plain English, they were not prepared to give up some of their strengths to patch up their obvious glaring weaknesses. David Savard would have helped them with his shot blocking, net clearing and leadership skills. Habs GM would have wisely asked for Cowan, Minton or a 1st round pick and that's a non starter, right? Because the Leafs have to think about their future! When this future eventually comes, it says here that the Core Four will be in decline. Tampa Bay recently won two Stanley Cups. They mortgaged some of their future but they won two Stanley Cups. In the 60s, the Chicago Black Hawks dominated the All Star teams, the regular season standings and the awards. They won one cup. The two teams , Montreal and Toronto, that didn't do that won ALL of the other cups. They were balanced with a few stars. They put the logo on the front of their jersey before the name on the back of the jersey, even though there were no names on the back then. I said a few years ago, "Don't sign John Tavares for that money and that term, as you we regret it down the road, to wit, you will hobble or handicap your salary cap." I wanted Mitch Marner traded two years ago as his playoff trend was not your friend. Absolutely last year, for sure. So now, the Core 4 have no trade contracts. You can't move them. You are dreaming in technicolor if you think that they will acquiesce to a trade. Not going to happen. They are in the driver's seat and they know it. Surely the Leaf management know it too. Too late, that is. They like playing in Toronto, the fans' adulation (Ask Mitch, he'll tell you) and of course their terrific salaries. Mathews getting 69 goals was their Stanley Cup. He's a bit more of a complete player now, but I swear that a little over three years ago, I didn't recall him throwing a body check during that round one series loss to Montreal. Of course, Steve Dangle is right, we can expect more of the same next Spring. He does not want to be privy to it and I don't blame him. Will he keep his word, though? Marner backed Willy during his hold out for a tremendous salary. Does anybody in their right mind think that he would not do the same for himself? He will not accept a trade. He will ask for a sweet raise without the hometown discount. The Leafs will not/should not give it to him. In which case, he will walk to free agency in about a year from now and write his ticket with a better balanced team with good coaching. I would have traded ALL of the Core Four before the season started, including Matthews. I would rebuild this team in a methodical smart winning way. Draft choices, youth, prospects and a lot of cap space. I would emphasize goal tending and defence. Who just won the Cup a few hours ago? 'Nuff said. Most of the Conn Smythe (ironically named after a Leaf) winners for the last 60 years have been goal tenders. Going into the playoffs past, present or future with Samsonov/Woll is a delusional idea. Unless you don't want to win the Cup. Going into the playoffs with that defence on a wing and a prayer illustrates a severe lack of hockey as it is supposed to be played. So what can be done now? They picked up a dolt GM from Calgary who let two stars walk for basically nothing. To clear cap space for Kadri, he gave the Habs Monahan who played well here and afforded us two 1st round picks in the offing. There is no way out now. You can't even get creative, FOR YEARS!! The Core Four have no trade contracts. They are out for themselves, as they should be. Come up with a solution, but there is no solution. You are in a pickle. You can wait out the contracts and let them walk for nothing. There is NO other way. And no, the Core 4 plus one will not suddenly find a way and do what they haven't been able to do in around ten years. Not going to happen and even if they decided to grow a pair come April you are stuck with that poor defence and goal tending. That is all
Shannahan messed up when firing Dubas.
Shannahan messed up when he hired Dubas. Dubas let Hyman go for nothing...not even the bag of pucks.
Dubas is a failure. He fits in perfectly with Fenway Sports Group.
Dubas was just about to do the right move but Shanny wouldn't let him.
Ok something I need to "correct"
Professional athletes don't take "Salary" they set up professional corporations and get tax corporately. They are only taxed on the money they are pulling out, plus can add family to the corp and all that. Individual Tax rates arent what these people pay
is there a reason why it’s like that?
All the sports journalists and pod cast speak of Leaf core player trades. All of them have NMC including Morgan Reilly. If they don't want to go management is handcuffed. Its 54.3 mill for 5 players that have all the power to stay
just to confirm though, you would have had to trade Marner off before July 1st of 23, AND you would have taken a massive pay hit, because MLSE, agreed to PREPAY his contract by close to 9 mil before the end of the 22-23 season, Marner had a silent NMC, Leafs would have been taking a massive salary loss of close to 9 mil prior to the 23-24 season. How many first round picks constitutes 9 mill worth? and then you have to get another team to agree to giving you that many!!!
Welcome to the club Leafs, Sens are in the same position.
No tax state was a big reason for alot of the players you mentioned signed for less all the facts matter
Anyone that thought he was going anywhere was delusional from the start. He got his NMC, he will use his NMC. Prepare yourselves.
So how will you feel if Mitch takes a pay cut just to stay
That's NEVER going to happen. Mitch's agent won't allow it...
@@tdotbones
Well it’s nit up to the agent, the agent works for the client
@lordrayden3045 mitch seems like he let's agent run his mouth and talk for him. I get a "don't worry this is my job, you just play hockey" vibe from his agent.
While he's ruining Mitchs image of course
His agent needs to be fired. Mitch needs to hire another one, if I were him I'd consult with Berube about some names. Use it to build a bridge with your new coach if you do genuinely want to stay
@@Alexdenomme
However…..
Like I said previously, the agent works for the player
So all the collateral damage, while it’s the agent talking, he’s doing it on behalf of the client / player
Blame management for these contracts and no move clauses. Marner is not only not going to be traded, he will be resigned. They will run the same group back this?year and next summer they will finally have tavaras off the books given them some payroll flexibility to fix this mess.
Am i the only one who sees the irony in jesse saying to move marner and the trio doesnt work when he won a cup with the trio and he kept them in franchise mode? XD
Nothing will be done until the top defensive pairing is addressed.
Btw, Marner can always fire his agent if he doesn’t like the way he negotiates, but he’s clearly satisfied with the job he’s done.😂
Why wouldn’t he be???
Thats impossible dude. The highest tax bracket in 2024 is 33% and thats on anything above 248k, Injust looked it up. Even if we used 33% on 10.9, his take home is 7.3mill. Not sure about your math there.@ScottStenlund-ys8iq
🙄🙄🙄
Why are we more willing to trade Mitch than the Captain whos not worth 11 million either
My understanding is Tavares could come back for a much lower price whereas Marner’s UFA price will actually go up. So they might actually keep Tavares.
@@RJM1693There is a huge age difference in the two players.
Tavares is older, but much better in the playoffs. I think we all agree that this isnt about the reg season, it's abiut building a contender, not a perennial loser. Marner can help retain the assets that should help. Like a top goalie or a solid d man.
@@benharvey5983 Without Marner, playoffs will be a distant memory.
This is the problem. You're focusing too much on not running it back next year & the fact that the team can't win with 4 players hogging up 50% of the cap. Yes, we all agree it's not a formula for success but if we need to be real with ourselves and realize that never year was never going to be our 'optimal' year to win the cup. Why?
1. We don't have our first, second, third or fourth 2025 draft picks or second, fourth 2026 picks to trade at the deadline AND we should not trade any of our current best prospects (cupboards are already thin). This means we can't be buyers at the deadline.
2. Goalie situation needs clarification, our current #1 goalie is Joseph Woll who Tre admitted is injury prone and likely a 1B goalie for now (not dependent to play 40+ games).
3. We need at least 2 more quality pairing D. Losing Gio, Brodie, Liljegren hasn't panned out in the playoffs so far, Timmons even less. If they can't get 2 more quality (Roy, Walker, Pesce, Montour, Skjei) D, it doesn't matter whether they trade Marner or not, we'll always run into the same problem in the playoffs. Our lack of scoring isn't just our 4 players making 40+mill. It's the fact that we aren't efficiently moving the puck up from D -> O/creating good zone entries/jumping up on the play effectively from our backend.
Every sports media outlet/personality/insider keeps bringing up Marner, 1 player and you're repeating the same mistake management has made in the past but this time in reverse. The above steps and realistically assessing our team going into next year and beyond with and without Marner along with the moves we can make regardless of whether we trade him or not are far
more important.
I don’t believe anyone reads comments that are that long.
Not a Leafs fan but I never hear anyone bitching about Tavares contract which to me is the worst out of the core 4. I would take any of the other 3 contracts without blinking on my team.
When star players are traded they USUALLY don't get fair value back (thinking Thorton to San Jose, Jagr to Rangers) so I don't know how much the Leafs are gonna get back on a expiring deal. I'd say do what you can to help the back end with $18 million and sign a backup goalie. Even if they don't sign Bertuzzi and Domi their forward depth is pretty good with Cowan and Minten likely on the way, and with Tavares coming off next year and cap going up they'll be able to keep Marner.
Cowan and Minten are 2 or 3 years away from the NHL , if they ever get to that level.
@@johnsummerhill8323 minten started on the 3rd line before being sent back to ohl. Should be on roster not to mention Robertson and McMann full time players. Their forward group should be set
Knies-Matthews-Nylander, McMann-Tavares-Marner, Robertson-Minten-Jankork, Holmberg-Kampf-Reaves. tverberg might be NHL ready as well. They could always bring Domi back as third line centre as well
@@christopherrego8706 I will guarantee you that Minten will be a Marlie.He was not allowed due to age, to play in the AHL so he was sent back to junior. He will need to spend at least 2 years in the AHL before he will be NHL ready.
Didn’t Marner sign after he threatened to sign an offer sheet?
That's not how offer sheets work. Either you get one issued to you and you sign it, and then the team can match. Or you don't. It's not a negotiating tool. The rumor was two offer sheets were on the table. And Toronto knew 2 offer sheets were on the table. But Mitch had no interest in signing either and wanted to stay in Toronto.
@@exturkconner offer sheets are totally a negotiating tool. What the hell are you talking about? If an agent can coax another team to submit an offer sheet then they can totally use that to put pressure on the current team.
As a Rangers fan I feel the exact same way.
All Leaf players that have NMCs and all free agents are watching the Leafs to see how they live up to good faith bargained contracts. How do they treat guys?
With the way Vegas and Tampa treated players. I’m pretty sure that the leafs fans won’t care. Marner should be made miserable if he refuses to move the ntc.
Maybe the leafs will learn to not sign players with a no move clause.
They have to run it back because Marner is in control
If Marner does agree to waive
Maybe Matthews will be right behind him, he’s seeing how his best bro is being treated
No wonder everyone hates leafs fans.
Trading Marner makes 0 sense and yet thats all we're going to hear about until next season.
Steve should check the tape before he erroneously corrects his co-host ... he said, "8 mil, 3 years"
30% of 100k is 30,000/month, thats more than a lot of people make in a year
Nobody is going to offer Marner $12 million in the open market. For someone who disappears in the playoffs? He’s not even Sebastian Aho.
A lot of teams just want to make the playoffs.
Guarantee you someone would give him that if he hits UFA status. There will be someone who looks at him and looks at their roster and thinks "We can insulate him better" or "we've got the kind of culture that will get him to thrive in the playoffs" or heck even "just getting to the playoffs is a lot better than we've done thus far let's get him and see what happens in the playoffs". He's a consistent 90 point player anyone with cap space (and probably vegas and new york too) will be asking for him
There's teams who'd kill to even make the playoffs... They'll pay him 12 if he's willing to go to a team like that
Lol, keep dreaming. Huberdeau had worse playoff stats than Marner when the Flames extended him at 10.5, they didn't even have to outbid anyone!
@@adamn7777if you need to insulate a player, you’re not giving him $12M.
No one is giving him more than $10M next offseason especially when he competing against a players like Rantanen and Draisaitl for dollars.
Fans want heads, but when I look at this 1. Would you rather have Marner on your team or 2. Be playing against him? .. Guess all we can do it sit back and see what happens. Contracts were terrible, blame Dubas and Shanny for those. Treliving for Nylanders 11.5mil ... lol.
Steve, my lord. Do you think players main concern is if they are liked? Pay me. Want to trade me? Pay me. Want me to stay? Pay me. Oh and no trade clause equals....pay me.
Shanny has no incentive to get rid of Marner. If Mitch gets booted and it makes the team better it invalidates him stubbornly sticking to his plan for the last near decade and proves Brad’s vision for the team is better. If however, Mitch turns it around in the post season and rips it up Shanny will be validated and it might save his job. Shanny has hitched his wagon to the core 4 and will either be vindicated or go down with the ship.
Marner to Pittsburgh for 1 year for Sid Crosby
I got mauled saying this somewhere, but i feel its a good price.
No as much as I love Sid he’s still a player that’s not in his prime not to mention we don’t need another forward with a cap hit of 8 mill
If Marner won't agree to a trade or is very restrictive with the number of teams he'll go to put him on the 4th line only playing 8 minutes per game. He'll be crying to Ferris the Leafs aren't fair, that should change his mind fairly quickly imo.
Hey Dangle , how much money have hockey players made for MLSE?
Something gives me the feeling that losing Marner over Tavares would be a mistake. We all know how players who left Toronto ended up. I’d be ok if they kept Matthews, Nylander and Marner. But Marners role needs to change. I think Burube could do that. Mitch isn’t worth anything over 10 mil.
What if Marner really intends on staying in Toronto next season? What if Marner provides 3 teams and none of them are in a hurry to take on a 11 million dollar contract.
But if you want a cup then you know what the cap is
PLAYOFFS-8 YEARS
Marner 50 points +10 173.5 min
Matthews 48 points +2 171.3 min
Nylander 43 points +1 147 min
I guess these guys dont know that Shanny is in Toronto as a double agent for Detroit.
Is Marner actually worth $12m on the open market? Seems like that’s based on the assumption of a raise over what the Leafs are paying him but they’re already paying him more than any other team in the league would. I think he’d be lucky to get his current AAV from another team.
He's been scapegoated by this team and it's fans he should just wait a year and dip in free agency
Brad screwed up on Nylander. He didnt want the heat after what went down in Calgary. And of course, contract year Nylander shows up. You cant keep both. Nylander or Marner, pick one.
This is becoming the messiest negotiation of the off season in a very long time. Marners agent is dragging Marners name through the mud, and making it so difficult for Marner to stay becuase of the media and fan speculation is rife. His agent need sto either be let go (yeah, right), or tell Marner to go and give the Leafs his list of teams that he would like to go to ASAP.
Actually, it isn't messy at all. Neither side is talking about it. It is the media trying to sell advertising that is making it look like an issue and the Dumbo fans are buying into it.
They’re gonna do it
marner will score well in the first half and the press will say "keep him". But these guys appear to get it. And tavares is cursed.
Wrong focus on trading Marner in the last season of his contract. Who cares if Leafs run this core 4 one more year, there's already been years of upset, what's one more? One more year isn't going to break MLSE, Leafs will still do well in regular season but likely fall in 1st/2nd round. What's one more year for a rebuild when Tavares/Marner contracts are up? Why is there so much focus on trading for Marner if it the Leafs can't get a good deal out of it?
Yes management made bad decisions in the past by not moving Marner earlier but the Leafs are where they are now. To make a bad trade vs waiting another year is the real question that should be addressed.
The shannaplan is going so well!
First mistake was a barely ppg player to $11M and the young guys with smart agents took notice of that. Considering they all demanded so much after that. They really should have traded one if not both of the wingers a long time ago. All too late now boyssss 🎉🎉🎉
Core 4 is not working (too much money up front). Moving Marner makes the most sense. Play Marner on the 4th line for a couple of months. He will accept a trade.
I doubt that 😂...imagine getting over paid to do even less 😂
Won't happen.
Here's the fun thing about winning, you can't win if you don't make the playoffs.
If they can make a solid deal, then I don't mind them trading Marner, but we're talking about a 100 point player who kills penalties and QB's the powerplay... The odds of the Leafs "getting better" by trading away Marner is close to zero, that's simply the harsh reality.
Oh yeah, and I know people like to pretend he's a ghost in the playoffs, but Marner still has 50 points in 57 career playoff games, it was almost like he had a rough playoff this year because he was clearly playing with a f**ked up ankle that hadn't properly healed yet, but I'm sure that's "just an excuse"...
Why not just trade Marner for someone a little less offensive but who’s tougher. Something like Marner for Scheifele?
Be cause Marner has a NMC and cannot be traded, unless he asks to be.
Marner is excellent thru the reg. season however come playoffs he doesn't contribute points and is scared to hit or be hit. Move on kiddo...
Well, Marner's not going to a crap team, and the good teams don't conveniently have $11mil to sink into ONE player unless salary is coming back the other way. The team that's trading for him has to convince him to sign an extension for $13mil or more...