I bought my first Varia VS3 Gen2 grinder in September 2023. I chose it because I liked the design and single dosing. For espresso the grind setting I’ve been using is around 3 with light-medium / omni roast specialty coffee beans. Apart from the noise, my issues with this grinder began when I decided to upgrade to the hypernova ultra burrs. With these new burrs installed the grind was coming out too coarse even when getting close to the 1 setting which Varia warns about not getting past or you might damage the burrs. I returned these to the retailer for testing and they confirmed they had to go below 1 to get a good grind for their tests so they sent me another new set of burrs. I had success with these at a setting around 2, but another issue surfaced, the drift. Around when I received the second burr set I noticed the hopper began to rotate while grinding and the new burrs made this worse the drift being around one step, so it went from 2 to 2.1 for example. I also decided to order one more grinder from the same retailer and immediately installed the hypernova ultra burrs. I began grinding as with the older one but there was a wild difference, now the setting had to be closer to 4 at a 3.7 for my current beans! Also with the new grinder the hopper can’t go to 0 and it stops at 0.1. And another weird issue with this second grinder is that I can feel electricity when I touch the metal ring around the hopper, I’ll have to test this properly but there’s something going on for sure. I like the concept and simplicity of this grinder but so far it has been a frustrating experience.
Hi bro I wanna purchase this grinder so bad to match my flair 58+, I had Df 64 with cast burr inside but still cannot produce fine enough to pull the perfect shot. So I begin to look alternative good cheap grinder and varia vs3 second gen come in to my mind.. whats the update bro? Do you have IG, can we exchange information? Thankss
I would love to see a comparison between the VS3 Gen 2 with the hypernova ultra burrs and the Lagom Mini since those are at the same price point and are probably at the top of their class for these lower RPM C40-esque conicals!
I’ve recently bought a used Compak E6 grinder. (64mm flat burrs, 600W). It grinds my 18.5g dose in 5.20s🤓. Utter nonsense, especially since I’m retired but still every time a joy to use. 😁 I don’t think I would want to go back to 20s. (Maybe I would if I could do a comparison like in this video)
@@AlternativeBrewing Honest question: When adding milk to your coffee it dramatically changes its flavour. Would you still be able to taste all the nuances when comparing milked coffee drinks? I don’t dislike a cappuccino but prefer an espresso.
I got a Vari VS3 from AB a few weekds ago after watching your last video about it - I love it, my coffee jumped right off the bat compared to what I was getting in my Breville. Using it in both v60 and with a ROK espresso maker - it is making delicious shots and filter coffee.
Just bought a Niche Zero while also considering the VS3. I make almost purely espresso drinks - I appreciate the breakdown. Reddit gave a lot of high praise to the Niche, I do like that it’s known for its reliability. Had a $30 Amazon grinder previously 😅. Hopefully I can taste the difference!
Bought a vs3 last week from AB and it has been a huge huge step up from the included grinder on my Sunbeam Barista Max. Just upgraded to the Gaggiuino project and the Vs3 and I am totally flawed by the complexity and depth I am getting out of my coffee already. Both of these are giant killer items in their own rights and I look forward to continuing to dial in new coffees and geek out on all of the nuances of this amazing hobby! Thanks for the videos and look forward to my large normcore tools order (through AB as well) due any day to take the next step up again!
Has a comparison video been done because I can’t seem to find much and they se so different yet so comparable. The Varia doesn’t come as recommended as the DF64, but the price point of the varia is great for entry level grinding, with great options for upgrades (although that’s bit too much for my novice brain to fathom in the short term).
@@Neykirra911 It looks the comparison video had been grinded 😆. Varia has conical burrs and a DC motor that requires an external power adapter (supplied) while the DF64 has flat burrs with a powerful 200 or 250w motor. Varia looks better, it has a nice design but the DF64 looks solid because it’s built like a tank. I saw both side by side at Alternative Brewing showroom and it was easy to see that the DF64 was the right choice for me. Very happy with it.
I really like the Varia to be honest, it is my first espresso grinder and for the price it punches way above its weight. QC is definitely an issue though, I got the Gen 1 and the only detail I notice is a very flimsy power button, that aside I was somewhat lucky as I have no drift or stalling problems. I love the elegant design and its remarkably small footprint. So far I'm very happy with my purchase. Great video!
Anyone looking to get the Varia, please please please research and know the risks. The internet is riddled with broken Varia VS3 gen 1 and gen 2s. Getting any assistance with replacement parts and warranties is a massive hassle and you will be without a grinder for months waiting... Save your money for a brand that actually uses quality materials throughout instead of hiding behind the sleek exterior.
Pulled the trigger on the VS3 a few weeks ago to get away from hand grinding for espresso. Hopefully the whiny motor is tolerable in person. I hope to receive it before Christmas.
Which espresso style (body and chocolaty vs. juicy and balanced) would you say goes better for milk-based drinks? Does the balance and juiciness carry through the milk-based drink?
@@AlternativeBrewing Ah, dang, thank you for the reply. My Varia is already on the way, so I guess I will give that a go and buy something like the Niche or a DF64 variant down the road. I did order the Hypernova Ultra burr as well though, so let's see if that delivers more body and richness.
I should note that I tend to like light to medium roasts, which is why I thought the profile of the Varia might bring out more of the fruity flavors, and the tried and true espresso grinders might muddle those flavors more in favor of body and chocolate notes.
@6:46 Josh, one can still notice your British inheritance being Australian ;-) They would probably have said something similar… ”Interesting difference in the beans' smell…“ Could you please elaborate a bit more on this? Which of them produces the better and more pleasant sensation?
hahahaah yeah 😂 we speak different downunder! I love how sentence arrangements are not the same between the English speaking countries, and differ quite a lot. So, the Fragrance of the ground beans, is almost a precursor to the aroma and flavour of the coffee brewed. So if I'd really stopped to take notice of the fragrance to describe their differences - I would have said, something along the lines of one being quite fruity, hints of floral - very citrus - whereas the other being more like chocolate, a little woody - with a rich heaviness to it. Interestingly - you can freeze your beans - and this preserves more of the fragrance from being lost during grinding - and bolsters the brewed coffees flavour and aromas.
@@AlternativeBrewing Hello, Josh, thanks a lot ;-) Being German and no native English speakers, we always doubt whether we really understood everything correctly… This British “Oh, interesting“ is just a polite way of Brits to answer anything at all without saying anything at all… Germans would then translate that literally and take this as a positive feedback ;-) Now you see what was so difficult for Germans dealing with the UK while still being part of the EU. Even if these languages are rather close, the mentality of their speakers differs a lot. Which led to some rather expensive “misunderstandings”. Never mind my British friends, no offence taken ;-) Thank you for the tip to freeze my beans but I am afraid that I drink them too quickly that this would make any sense in my case… See you ;-)
Although I'm shocked the VS3 was rated over the Niche, I really trust the reviewer (after seeing all of his videos) and appreciate all the replies they gave to people who questioned them. Except, I still can't get myself to pick one and pull the trigger 🤣 I like the chocolates. But then I wonder, is that just because I've never properly tasted the fruits? Decisions decisions.
thanks so much! Yes, there is some difference - but not as much a change as going from Supernova to Hypernova. Hypernova Ultra just adds a little more clarity and sweetness 👌
Great comparison :) i have a df83 with SSP HU and a sculptor 64s with SSP MP, so i can have super clean and bright acid bombs with the mp and a more sweet balanced shot with medium body from the 83, the only thing i'm missing is something that gives that super rich gooey chocolatey shot from slightly darker roasts, would i be better going with the niche over the varia for this?
Hey, I bought the gen2 and I’m having it for over a week now. Super happy with it! I just have my espresso settings from 4-6 instead a lot of people saying from 2-4. is it normal with the grinder or is there maybe something wrong with it? Thanks in advance!
Great to hear! No, nothing wrong with- there’s plenty of variation in water, beans, dose, baskets etc etc so I wouldn’t worry 🤘 as long as it tastes good
Yea - I’d also acknowledge there’s a huge price gap between these two grinders. I think you’d discover the Varia still makes very enjoyable milk-based drinks at a third of the price the Niche does 🫶
@@AlternativeBrewing Thanks for the reply :) Well since I'm currently using the build in grinder of the breville barista pro for my cuppuchinos, is the varia gonna be a good upgrade?
Wow, great video. Just stumbled upon your channel while looking for upgrade for my Baratza ESP. I find the ESP to be very good but too many fines affecting my pulls. I actually prefer my Kingrinder K6 to the ESP. Can you comment on where the Varia would fit into my picture? The Niche is a touch more than I want to spend at this time. Thanks!
Great comparison, sir Josh! Really appreciate it! Any insights on Varia VS3 vs Fellow Ode gen 2 in terms of filter coffee? I know its really not a fair comparison because its a flat vs conical but any insights will do, especially on clarity aspect. I'm just thinking that if the Varia VS3 isnt far from the fellow ode in terms of filter coffee flavor profile then it would be a better buy as an all around grinder.
thanks so much! 🫶 I'll have to put together an ALL-round video I think ! Fellow Ode Gen 2 for Filter Coffee is great - and if we're being fair and can place any burr set in any of these grinders - you're going to get the best filter coffee from the Ode with SSP MP burrs in them - however I am very impressed with the flavour clarity and separation with the Varia VS3 using the Ultra Hypernova burrs, I think there's great value in this combo being better All-round.
That piercing high pitch noise of the VS3 is a dealbreaker for me...I am writing this after lunch time and already had my coffee....I can't imagine having to endure that noise first thing in the morning.
Yeah, the Varia gen1 for me had the right noise balance - and yes,. the Gen2 was a surprise when I used it for the first time. Thankfully still quiet enough for our house at least, not to wake anyone up at 5am. There's really no grinder that jumps out at me , that's exceptionally quiet, and goes beyond that of anything I've heard :/
@@AlternativeBrewing Many thanks for that, however I'm not sure your DiFluid device is working as it should. A Niche Zero at 55 is much finer than 1014um average grind. You'd need to be way past 1 full rotation, at 73.5 I get 94% at 1180um.
it was past one full rotation - forgive me - it's a detail I've long forgotten - Im not usually setting the Niche at so coarse a setting - though I recall it was well past the full rotation - possibly even 65 👌 @@markburness5609
How do you tackle light roasted beans in the varia for espresso? I have some that I just can’t grind without getting the varia stuck (or it’s too coarse) - kinda gave up and just use them for v60
I understand. I'm seeing a lot of comments about this - but have not personally nor dealt with any of these issues - so perhaps I need to get a lighter roast coffee and test, idk. Do you have any information on the beans you are using - perhaps I could try beans of a similar roast degree and test it first hand.
Thanks for the video already very informative. I agree though more of a look into the ability of the vs3 to handle light roasts for espresso would be helpful. I almost exclusively drink super light roasts (think Scandinavian 3rd wave roasters, appolon's gold, etc) and this is the main factor stopping me from getting a varia. Additionally there have been reports of the grind setting drifting, even on the v2, have you experienced this?
@@AlternativeBrewing all I know is that it’s Costa Rica Tacacal / Aguilera Brothers, from a local roaster. He usually classifies his roast as city+, but told me he went a little lighter this time.
Also noise... The varia doesn't have, for me, a pleasant sound compared to the Niche. However, the varia is significantly cheaper and is definitely a value proposition.
I have a varia and compared to the breville smart dose I had before it is significantly quieter and compared to my mates Rancillio grinder - I will concede the power brick is pretty ugly@@georgcantor8859
The Varia VS3 is having huge issues with reliability (Gen 2 included!). It is literally shredding its internal gears after a few months of regular use. The Niche is a battle tested and proven product so I don't have any idea why AB are pushing the VS3 so hard. Literally every AB ad is shoving the VS3 down our throats and this video saying the VS3 is better than the Niche doesn't make any sense. I mean, just listen to the VS3 grind in this video, the motor is horrendously underpowered and is in a constant battle against the beans you are putting down it. There's not a chance it will grind a light roast consistently. I buy from AB a lot, so I would actually appreciate a response to this comment. I am really struggling to understand the position you are taking knowing full well that numerous of your customers are submitting warranty claims for the VS3. A reputable coffee machine distributor in Perth has submitted 4 warranty claims for the VS3 (again Gen 2) just this week and has vowed to not stock the VS3 going forward.
I had the vs3 version 1 and two of them burned out in less than a year. I took it apart and can see why. It has a tiny gearbox with so many gears that are ridiculously small. The motor looks like a toy too. The majority of the case is just empty space. After seeing that I decided I would not buy another varia product as they were clearly not making good decisions from a product design standpoint. The externals of the machine were heavy and felt quality only to hide the inferior inside. The company did give me a refund at least. I do agree that the coffee is pretty good. I replaced it with a fellow opus which has its own problems and I think the varia had a cleaner tasting espresso.
@papaRibbs Hey, thank you for sharing your concerns about the Varia VS3, and I truly appreciate your loyalty as a valued customer. I understand your frustrations, and I want to assure you that we take customer feedback seriously as we continually work with manufacturers to improve their products. I totally get where you're coming from with the Gen1 issues. We have shared your disappointment, especially with the motor breakdowns and warranty claims. However, I'd like to emphasize that the Varia Gen2 is a significant improvement, addressing the reported problems from Gen1. With an overhauled motor, metal gears (bye-bye plastic ones from Gen1), cranked-up the RPM, and added torque; these improvements in the Gen2 have led to a significant reduction in reported problems. Regarding your observation on the motor sound and its apparent struggle against the beans, I hear you, and yes it sounds a bit different from the Gen1. The Gen2 motor however is designed to handle regular use and has been optimized for better performance. Your feedback is crucial though, and we will certainly pass this along to Varia, who are always looking to fine-tune. For customers dealing with very light roasted beans, especially in larger quantities (>30g at a time; Max 1kg/day) - or for fine turkish or espresso grinds, we appreciate your caution. While the Varia VS3 is suitable for the majority of users, different grinders may excel in specific scenarios. The Fellow Opus, as mentioned in the comments, is a good alternative for those focusing on the very light roast spectrum of beans. It has a higher torque rating. and thus may have an easier time without concerns. It would not be my first pick for performance or flavour. Please feel free to reach out to our customer support team, if there are any further questions or concerns you may have. We are committed to ensuring your satisfaction with our products.
@@AlternativeBrewing I would be curious to know the warranty claim stats after for the Gen 2 - like you said, there has been a reduction from Gen 1 but what are the claim stats when compared to the Niche? I just have a nagging suspicion that AB are making a higher profit margin off the VS3 compared to the Niche (or someone at AB has a stake in Varia 🤔). The constant VS3 advertising, combined with videos like these just feel a bit disingenuous.
@@PapaRibbs The warranty claim stats - I didn't know these myself, of the 6 x Varia VS3's I've personally used, none have had issues - I asked our customer service team - and word for word their reply was: "I dont think we've seen a single motor issue since gen 2. and the majority of issues have arisen from overloading the gen 1's beyond the recommended limit." We certainly don't aim to be disingenuous, sorry our targetted ads come across this way - - this would only create more work for us if we have our products shipped faulty. We do include in the description of the Varia, a warning about the the use of Light Roasted Beans and the Varia VS3, mirroring that off Varia's website. Personally, and with this channel, I'm not a consumer of LRBs, preferring Medium roast - though am aware of these short-comings - with that and Dark Roasts along with Milk-based coffees. I'll try my best to cover the spectrum more in future assessments. In regards to marketing - It wouldn't need to be a suspicion on your part - Niche has long been a sole distributor of their own Grinders. It would interest you to know though, prior to this - we would bang on about the Niche too - in a similar way - though, back then, not as effective I guess 😂Niche has been a great product, with reliability and is undeniably popular with the right balance for marketability. Varia ticks the same boxes 🫶
Besides the noise and the power imbalance, the Niche grinds looks a lot better than the scorched ones out of the Varia. I think a niche grind through a dedica would be better than a varia grind through an LM.
I think what’s interesting is the “Niche Killer” trend while I’m not aware of anyone seriously considering or buying the Niche Zero these days. So while no ONE grinder has taken its place, it doesn’t seem to have a place anymore, or at least not a prominent one.
Well. I was firmly planning on buying a Niche Zero and am just about persuaded now to buy a VS3 instead, seeing how the reviews have been consistently good and the Niche has further increased in price. I am not quite ready to let go of the Niche, since I instantly fell in love with it and have been wanting to buy it for so long, but it seems almost unreasonable now with something like the VS3 available at a much lower price.
I don’t know what grinder I would replace my Niche with within the same price class (say sub 700). It just never fails, no issues, no worries. Would I still buy it now as a new user? Probably not, but it would probably be a gen 2 of any grinder because they all had some issues in gen 1, the Niche did not have.
When you're married to a super model, you'll still get bored and bone a 2. Still the super model is prettier. But you dont phone home about your wife. Hence, of course people still buy the Niche, it's not as cheap as the cheapest single dose grinders, but it's tried and tested for a couple years now. And it's not that much more expensive. Basically you cant really go wrong with the Niche, you certainly can go wrong with a lot of the newer competition, since there just is no long term experience with their built quality, their customer service. Niche is still the value propositon for sure.
@@Kuchenrolle "reviews". Dont be mistaken, even when reviewers tell you they are impartial, they arent. Some or just straight lying, others may believe they are but arent. The all rely on content, they all rely on getting free stuff to review. Besides that, none of the reviews that I am aware of have done any long term testing, none of them have tested Varia's customer service. I am not even aware of any replacement burrs other than Varia's own, which is not great since you dont know if the company is around or has spare parts 4 years from now.
This is the review I’m looking for. Surprised one hasn’t been done yet as they’re both somewhat comparable on functionality and price point. The Varia seems less recommended on pages but I assume it is a newer underdog to the market.
When you were considering doing a deep dive on this review Josh, you weren't supposed to go head first! Luckily you managed to get your head out before all the follicles were removed. 👴😁
lol 😂 yes I am. I see the point you’re wanting to make though, and yes, the Niche performs better without using any tools versus the Varia without any tools - though IMO the Varia - with using all it’s included tools preforms better then the Niche, with its lack there of.
@@AlternativeBrewing I understand your point, but still the accessories you mentioned are so cheap to buy for the other grinder that it is out of the equation.
yeah they are. My theory is the different light refraction. So the grounds are in fact different geometries - with each grinder having like a fingerprint of how they grind the beans down to a powder - and this is what may make the grounds appear, under light, to be of different colours.
@@AlternativeBrewing Yeah I'd definitely agree, particles at different sizes and geometries will scatter light differently. It might even be possible to design a technque using this principle measure grind size geometries in future!
yeh - it's true - It's a small detail - a lot of grinders come with one now - but it's more and more evident you should be using one with Grinding - as it only makes grinding cleaner and brews better coffee too.
Varia VS3 gen2 mainly. Have always loved the Varia VS3 - ever since first using it, and would say it’s my ideal grinder, all things considered, without having to spend +$2k. Not sponsored by them, our channel doesn’t have sponsors, but am looking at spreading the word about the Gen 2 🫶
I bought my first Varia VS3 Gen2 grinder in September 2023. I chose it because I liked the design and single dosing. For espresso the grind setting I’ve been using is around 3 with light-medium / omni roast specialty coffee beans. Apart from the noise, my issues with this grinder began when I decided to upgrade to the hypernova ultra burrs. With these new burrs installed the grind was coming out too coarse even when getting close to the 1 setting which Varia warns about not getting past or you might damage the burrs. I returned these to the retailer for testing and they confirmed they had to go below 1 to get a good grind for their tests so they sent me another new set of burrs. I had success with these at a setting around 2, but another issue surfaced, the drift. Around when I received the second burr set I noticed the hopper began to rotate while grinding and the new burrs made this worse the drift being around one step, so it went from 2 to 2.1 for example. I also decided to order one more grinder from the same retailer and immediately installed the hypernova ultra burrs. I began grinding as with the older one but there was a wild difference, now the setting had to be closer to 4 at a 3.7 for my current beans! Also with the new grinder the hopper can’t go to 0 and it stops at 0.1. And another weird issue with this second grinder is that I can feel electricity when I touch the metal ring around the hopper, I’ll have to test this properly but there’s something going on for sure. I like the concept and simplicity of this grinder but so far it has been a frustrating experience.
Hi bro I wanna purchase this grinder so bad to match my flair 58+, I had Df 64 with cast burr inside but still cannot produce fine enough to pull the perfect shot. So I begin to look alternative good cheap grinder and varia vs3 second gen come in to my mind.. whats the update bro? Do you have IG, can we exchange information? Thankss
I would love to see a comparison between the VS3 Gen 2 with the hypernova ultra burrs and the Lagom Mini since those are at the same price point and are probably at the top of their class for these lower RPM C40-esque conicals!
I thought the Varia would be my next grinder, until I heard it 😂
Visiting dentist every morning xD
😂
I’ve recently bought a used Compak E6 grinder. (64mm flat burrs, 600W). It grinds my 18.5g dose in 5.20s🤓.
Utter nonsense, especially since I’m retired but still every time a joy to use. 😁
I don’t think I would want to go back to 20s. (Maybe I would if I could do a comparison like in this video)
@@AlternativeBrewing
Honest question:
When adding milk to your coffee it dramatically changes its flavour.
Would you still be able to taste all the nuances when comparing milked coffee drinks?
I don’t dislike a cappuccino but prefer an espresso.
Need a silencer box like what they use to make frappe
This is amazing. Im constantly chasing Ethiopian fruity and acidic flavours so think ill be soon getting the varia vs3 :)
I got a Vari VS3 from AB a few weekds ago after watching your last video about it - I love it, my coffee jumped right off the bat compared to what I was getting in my Breville.
Using it in both v60 and with a ROK espresso maker - it is making delicious shots and filter coffee.
Great head to head, could I ask are you using the stock burrs on the VS3 or the upgraded burrs from Varia?
Yeah which burrs are they?
Stock burrs 👍
Just bought a Niche Zero while also considering the VS3. I make almost purely espresso drinks - I appreciate the breakdown. Reddit gave a lot of high praise to the Niche, I do like that it’s known for its reliability. Had a $30 Amazon grinder previously 😅. Hopefully I can taste the difference!
That’s a great choice - you won’t regret it! 🙌
Bought a vs3 last week from AB and it has been a huge huge step up from the included grinder on my Sunbeam Barista Max. Just upgraded to the Gaggiuino project and the Vs3 and I am totally flawed by the complexity and depth I am getting out of my coffee already. Both of these are giant killer items in their own rights and I look forward to continuing to dial in new coffees and geek out on all of the nuances of this amazing hobby! Thanks for the videos and look forward to my large normcore tools order (through AB as well) due any day to take the next step up again!
How'd you go with the Gaggiuino? Want to do it myself but going without the Gaggia while I get it done is putting me off.
Still waiting for mine. It's taking ages!
Ordered the Varia Gen 2 yesterday 🥰 can’t wait
It would be great to see a comparison between the Varia VS3 and the DF64, both Gen 2.
on it 👌
Has a comparison video been done because I can’t seem to find much and they se so different yet so comparable. The Varia doesn’t come as recommended as the DF64, but the price point of the varia is great for entry level grinding, with great options for upgrades (although that’s bit too much for my novice brain to fathom in the short term).
@@Neykirra911 It looks the comparison video had been grinded 😆.
Varia has conical burrs and a DC motor that requires an external power adapter (supplied) while the DF64 has flat burrs with a powerful 200 or 250w motor. Varia looks better, it has a nice design but the DF64 looks solid because it’s built like a tank. I saw both side by side at Alternative Brewing showroom and it was easy to see that the DF64 was the right choice for me. Very happy with it.
I really like the Varia to be honest, it is my first espresso grinder and for the price it punches way above its weight. QC is definitely an issue though, I got the Gen 1 and the only detail I notice is a very flimsy power button, that aside I was somewhat lucky as I have no drift or stalling problems. I love the elegant design and its remarkably small footprint. So far I'm very happy with my purchase. Great video!
Thanks for sharing!
Anyone looking to get the Varia, please please please research and know the risks. The internet is riddled with broken Varia VS3 gen 1 and gen 2s. Getting any assistance with replacement parts and warranties is a massive hassle and you will be without a grinder for months waiting... Save your money for a brand that actually uses quality materials throughout instead of hiding behind the sleek exterior.
Pulled the trigger on the VS3 a few weeks ago to get away from hand grinding for espresso. Hopefully the whiny motor is tolerable in person. I hope to receive it before Christmas.
Thank you Josh for doing a review/comparison on the VS3! I did not find too many videos on UA-cam of the VS3.
🫶 You're welcome
Which espresso style (body and chocolaty vs. juicy and balanced) would you say goes better for milk-based drinks? Does the balance and juiciness carry through the milk-based drink?
Heavy, rich and chocolatey I believe offers a far great experience in the cup with milk than anything juicy
@@AlternativeBrewing Ah, dang, thank you for the reply. My Varia is already on the way, so I guess I will give that a go and buy something like the Niche or a DF64 variant down the road. I did order the Hypernova Ultra burr as well though, so let's see if that delivers more body and richness.
I should note that I tend to like light to medium roasts, which is why I thought the profile of the Varia might bring out more of the fruity flavors, and the tried and true espresso grinders might muddle those flavors more in favor of body and chocolate notes.
9:02 The spin wheel adds a very nice touch! 👌
@6:46 Josh, one can still notice your British inheritance being Australian ;-) They would probably have said something similar… ”Interesting difference in the beans' smell…“ Could you please elaborate a bit more on this? Which of them produces the better and more pleasant sensation?
hahahaah yeah 😂 we speak different downunder! I love how sentence arrangements are not the same between the English speaking countries, and differ quite a lot.
So, the Fragrance of the ground beans, is almost a precursor to the aroma and flavour of the coffee brewed. So if I'd really stopped to take notice of the fragrance to describe their differences - I would have said, something along the lines of one being quite fruity, hints of floral - very citrus - whereas the other being more like chocolate, a little woody - with a rich heaviness to it. Interestingly - you can freeze your beans - and this preserves more of the fragrance from being lost during grinding - and bolsters the brewed coffees flavour and aromas.
@@AlternativeBrewing Hello, Josh, thanks a lot ;-)
Being German and no native English speakers, we always doubt whether we really understood everything correctly…
This British “Oh, interesting“ is just a polite way of Brits to answer anything at all without saying anything at all…
Germans would then translate that literally and take this as a positive feedback ;-) Now you see what was so difficult for Germans dealing with the UK while still being part of the EU.
Even if these languages are rather close, the mentality of their speakers differs a lot. Which led to some rather expensive “misunderstandings”.
Never mind my British friends, no offence taken ;-)
Thank you for the tip to freeze my beans but I am afraid that I drink them too quickly that this would make any sense in my case…
See you ;-)
Thank you. Do you have comparison of niche zero vs duo (espresso blades) my use is milk based coffee drinks and very little black espresso.
Although I'm shocked the VS3 was rated over the Niche, I really trust the reviewer (after seeing all of his videos) and appreciate all the replies they gave to people who questioned them.
Except, I still can't get myself to pick one and pull the trigger 🤣 I like the chocolates. But then I wonder, is that just because I've never properly tasted the fruits? Decisions decisions.
Great videos thanks so much! Any real difference between the hypernova and the hypernova ultra in the cup or is just about the longevity?
thanks so much! Yes, there is some difference - but not as much a change as going from Supernova to Hypernova. Hypernova Ultra just adds a little more clarity and sweetness 👌
Thank you!!! Keep on rocking this videos @@AlternativeBrewing !!
Great comparison :) i have a df83 with SSP HU and a sculptor 64s with SSP MP, so i can have super clean and bright acid bombs with the mp and a more sweet balanced shot with medium body from the 83, the only thing i'm missing is something that gives that super rich gooey chocolatey shot from slightly darker roasts, would i be better going with the niche over the varia for this?
100% ! Those big ol' conical Mazzer Burrs on the Niche are brilliant for this 👍
@@AlternativeBrewing Thank you :)
that's very helpful .. I'm getting the Varia VS3
Glad I could help!
3:00: the Varia lacks an operation light! OMG, how will I know if the thing is on???
Ummm.. if it’s on, it grinds?
@@Urufu-san yeah, that was my point. It’s kinda hard to miss when a grinder is running, so I found that criticism of the unit a bit preposterous
@@Gk2003m Gotcha
Hey,
I bought the gen2 and I’m having it for over a week now. Super happy with it! I just have my espresso settings from 4-6 instead a lot of people saying from 2-4. is it normal with the grinder or is there maybe something wrong with it? Thanks in advance!
Great to hear! No, nothing wrong with- there’s plenty of variation in water, beans, dose, baskets etc etc so I wouldn’t worry 🤘 as long as it tastes good
Do you recommend the niche over the varia for a milk based drinks like cuppuchino?
Yea - I’d also acknowledge there’s a huge price gap between these two grinders. I think you’d discover the Varia still makes very enjoyable milk-based drinks at a third of the price the Niche does 🫶
@@AlternativeBrewing
Thanks for the reply :)
Well since I'm currently using the build in grinder of the breville barista pro for my cuppuchinos, is the varia gonna be a good upgrade?
100% it is yes 👌 @@asafm32
Wow, great video. Just stumbled upon your channel while looking for upgrade for my Baratza ESP. I find the ESP to be very good but too many fines affecting my pulls. I actually prefer my Kingrinder K6 to the ESP. Can you comment on where the Varia would fit into my picture? The Niche is a touch more than I want to spend at this time. Thanks!
Welcome aboard! Yeah absolutely. For the price and performance, unless you are particular about having a Hand Grinder - I'd go the Varia VS3 🙌
May I ask if the varia Vs3 is a good grinder as a daily grinder for espresso?
Since it has low rpm..
Just curious
100% it is. Yes - it's ideal even 👌 makes great coffee and can handle Espresso all day (max 2kg)
How about the ROK manual grinder?
Yeah goes alright - yet it doesn't beat Electric 🔥
@@AlternativeBrewing cool. So the taste and mouthfeel is better with the electric units?
@@vtcanada2000 100% yes 👌
Great comparison, sir Josh! Really appreciate it! Any insights on Varia VS3 vs Fellow Ode gen 2 in terms of filter coffee? I know its really not a fair comparison because its a flat vs conical but any insights will do, especially on clarity aspect. I'm just thinking that if the Varia VS3 isnt far from the fellow ode in terms of filter coffee flavor profile then it would be a better buy as an all around grinder.
thanks so much! 🫶 I'll have to put together an ALL-round video I think ! Fellow Ode Gen 2 for Filter Coffee is great - and if we're being fair and can place any burr set in any of these grinders - you're going to get the best filter coffee from the Ode with SSP MP burrs in them - however I am very impressed with the flavour clarity and separation with the Varia VS3 using the Ultra Hypernova burrs, I think there's great value in this combo being better All-round.
That piercing high pitch noise of the VS3 is a dealbreaker for me...I am writing this after lunch time and already had my coffee....I can't imagine having to endure that noise first thing in the morning.
Coming from a handgrinder, all coffee grinders seem annoyingly loud. Guess it's the P64 or bust :)
I feel the same way about the DF64 series. Can't stand that noise.
Yeah, the Varia gen1 for me had the right noise balance - and yes,. the Gen2 was a surprise when I used it for the first time. Thankfully still quiet enough for our house at least, not to wake anyone up at 5am. There's really no grinder that jumps out at me , that's exceptionally quiet, and goes beyond that of anything I've heard :/
Using it daily, it’s actually quieter than it is high pitched. I guess the video doesn’t make it justice.
@@fatnerf I thought this one sounded ok. I can't stand the df64 though.
Which setting was the Niche at for the filter cupping please?
I believe it was 55 once calibrated 👌
@@AlternativeBrewing Many thanks for that, however I'm not sure your DiFluid device is working as it should. A Niche Zero at 55 is much finer than 1014um average grind. You'd need to be way past 1 full rotation, at 73.5 I get 94% at 1180um.
it was past one full rotation - forgive me - it's a detail I've long forgotten - Im not usually setting the Niche at so coarse a setting - though I recall it was well past the full rotation - possibly even 65 👌 @@markburness5609
Thanks, still '65' is probably not much over 700um average, if at all. @@AlternativeBrewing
How do you tackle light roasted beans in the varia for espresso? I have some that I just can’t grind without getting the varia stuck (or it’s too coarse) - kinda gave up and just use them for v60
I understand. I'm seeing a lot of comments about this - but have not personally nor dealt with any of these issues - so perhaps I need to get a lighter roast coffee and test, idk. Do you have any information on the beans you are using - perhaps I could try beans of a similar roast degree and test it first hand.
Thanks for the video already very informative. I agree though more of a look into the ability of the vs3 to handle light roasts for espresso would be helpful. I almost exclusively drink super light roasts (think Scandinavian 3rd wave roasters, appolon's gold, etc) and this is the main factor stopping me from getting a varia. Additionally there have been reports of the grind setting drifting, even on the v2, have you experienced this?
@@AlternativeBrewing all I know is that it’s Costa Rica Tacacal / Aguilera Brothers, from a local roaster. He usually classifies his roast as city+, but told me he went a little lighter this time.
Gen1 Varia? No problem at all on light roasts with the Gen2.
Nice, but doesn't the Varia require separate power brick?
Also noise... The varia doesn't have, for me, a pleasant sound compared to the Niche. However, the varia is significantly cheaper and is definitely a value proposition.
Could add this to the description 😂
TLDW: Varia VS3 is significantly cheaper and is definitely a value proposition.
If you're someone that likes to try different brewing method I believe Varia is leaps better. @@georgcantor8859
I have a varia and compared to the breville smart dose I had before it is significantly quieter and compared to my mates Rancillio grinder - I will concede the power brick is pretty ugly@@georgcantor8859
Yes,, but in reality it hides behind my coffee machine where nobody can see it.
Also, needing a bellows isn’t a feature, it’s a crutch.
The Varia VS3 is having huge issues with reliability (Gen 2 included!). It is literally shredding its internal gears after a few months of regular use. The Niche is a battle tested and proven product so I don't have any idea why AB are pushing the VS3 so hard. Literally every AB ad is shoving the VS3 down our throats and this video saying the VS3 is better than the Niche doesn't make any sense. I mean, just listen to the VS3 grind in this video, the motor is horrendously underpowered and is in a constant battle against the beans you are putting down it. There's not a chance it will grind a light roast consistently.
I buy from AB a lot, so I would actually appreciate a response to this comment. I am really struggling to understand the position you are taking knowing full well that numerous of your customers are submitting warranty claims for the VS3. A reputable coffee machine distributor in Perth has submitted 4 warranty claims for the VS3 (again Gen 2) just this week and has vowed to not stock the VS3 going forward.
I had the vs3 version 1 and two of them burned out in less than a year. I took it apart and can see why. It has a tiny gearbox with so many gears that are ridiculously small. The motor looks like a toy too. The majority of the case is just empty space. After seeing that I decided I would not buy another varia product as they were clearly not making good decisions from a product design standpoint. The externals of the machine were heavy and felt quality only to hide the inferior inside. The company did give me a refund at least. I do agree that the coffee is pretty good. I replaced it with a fellow opus which has its own problems and I think the varia had a cleaner tasting espresso.
@papaRibbs Hey, thank you for sharing your concerns about the Varia VS3, and I truly appreciate your loyalty as a valued customer. I understand your frustrations, and I want to assure you that we take customer feedback seriously as we continually work with manufacturers to improve their products.
I totally get where you're coming from with the Gen1 issues. We have shared your disappointment, especially with the motor breakdowns and warranty claims.
However, I'd like to emphasize that the Varia Gen2 is a significant improvement, addressing the reported problems from Gen1.
With an overhauled motor, metal gears (bye-bye plastic ones from Gen1), cranked-up the RPM, and added torque; these improvements in the Gen2 have led to a significant reduction in reported problems.
Regarding your observation on the motor sound and its apparent struggle against the beans, I hear you, and yes it sounds a bit different from the Gen1. The Gen2 motor however is designed to handle regular use and has been optimized for better performance. Your feedback is crucial though, and we will certainly pass this along to Varia, who are always looking to fine-tune.
For customers dealing with very light roasted beans, especially in larger quantities (>30g at a time; Max 1kg/day) - or for fine turkish or espresso grinds, we appreciate your caution. While the Varia VS3 is suitable for the majority of users, different grinders may excel in specific scenarios. The Fellow Opus, as mentioned in the comments, is a good alternative for those focusing on the very light roast spectrum of beans. It has a higher torque rating. and thus may have an easier time without concerns. It would not be my first pick for performance or flavour.
Please feel free to reach out to our customer support team, if there are any further questions or concerns you may have. We are committed to ensuring your satisfaction with our products.
@@AlternativeBrewing I would be curious to know the warranty claim stats after for the Gen 2 - like you said, there has been a reduction from Gen 1 but what are the claim stats when compared to the Niche?
I just have a nagging suspicion that AB are making a higher profit margin off the VS3 compared to the Niche (or someone at AB has a stake in Varia 🤔). The constant VS3 advertising, combined with videos like these just feel a bit disingenuous.
@@PapaRibbs The warranty claim stats - I didn't know these myself, of the 6 x Varia VS3's I've personally used, none have had issues - I asked our customer service team - and word for word their reply was: "I dont think we've seen a single motor issue since gen 2. and the majority of issues have arisen from overloading the gen 1's beyond the recommended limit."
We certainly don't aim to be disingenuous, sorry our targetted ads come across this way - - this would only create more work for us if we have our products shipped faulty.
We do include in the description of the Varia, a warning about the the use of Light Roasted Beans and the Varia VS3, mirroring that off Varia's website.
Personally, and with this channel, I'm not a consumer of LRBs, preferring Medium roast - though am aware of these short-comings - with that and Dark Roasts along with Milk-based coffees. I'll try my best to cover the spectrum more in future assessments.
In regards to marketing - It wouldn't need to be a suspicion on your part - Niche has long been a sole distributor of their own Grinders. It would interest you to know though, prior to this - we would bang on about the Niche too - in a similar way - though, back then, not as effective I guess 😂Niche has been a great product, with reliability and is undeniably popular with the right balance for marketability. Varia ticks the same boxes 🫶
Cool, still love my vs3 and seems it was a great choice saving money and not getting the niche 😊
Totally agree!
Hey Josh, what was the recipe on the espresso ?
20g in / 40g out in 25 seconds 👍
Which one would be better for lattes?
I'd go the Niche 🔥
Besides the noise and the power imbalance, the Niche grinds looks a lot better than the scorched ones out of the Varia. I think a niche grind through a dedica would be better than a varia grind through an LM.
I like 90% Lindt over 95%. I should recompare them
Lindt 90 % Mild rules!!! Excellent taste, almost no sugar ;-)
I think what’s interesting is the “Niche Killer” trend while I’m not aware of anyone seriously considering or buying the Niche Zero these days. So while no ONE grinder has taken its place, it doesn’t seem to have a place anymore, or at least not a prominent one.
Well. I was firmly planning on buying a Niche Zero and am just about persuaded now to buy a VS3 instead, seeing how the reviews have been consistently good and the Niche has further increased in price. I am not quite ready to let go of the Niche, since I instantly fell in love with it and have been wanting to buy it for so long, but it seems almost unreasonable now with something like the VS3 available at a much lower price.
I don’t know what grinder I would replace my Niche with within the same price class (say sub 700). It just never fails, no issues, no worries. Would I still buy it now as a new user? Probably not, but it would probably be a gen 2 of any grinder because they all had some issues in gen 1, the Niche did not have.
When you're married to a super model, you'll still get bored and bone a 2. Still the super model is prettier. But you dont phone home about your wife. Hence, of course people still buy the Niche, it's not as cheap as the cheapest single dose grinders, but it's tried and tested for a couple years now. And it's not that much more expensive. Basically you cant really go wrong with the Niche, you certainly can go wrong with a lot of the newer competition, since there just is no long term experience with their built quality, their customer service. Niche is still the value propositon for sure.
@@Kuchenrolle "reviews". Dont be mistaken, even when reviewers tell you they are impartial, they arent. Some or just straight lying, others may believe they are but arent. The all rely on content, they all rely on getting free stuff to review. Besides that, none of the reviews that I am aware of have done any long term testing, none of them have tested Varia's customer service. I am not even aware of any replacement burrs other than Varia's own, which is not great since you dont know if the company is around or has spare parts 4 years from now.
We need Varia VS3 Gen 2 vs DF64 Gen 2
This is the review I’m looking for. Surprised one hasn’t been done yet as they’re both somewhat comparable on functionality and price point. The Varia seems less recommended on pages but I assume it is a newer underdog to the market.
@@Neykirra911 I agree, however I ended up buying DF64Gen 2.
@@aRk0_aus More expensive, bigger burrs (and flat), so probably the better choice.
When you were considering doing a deep dive on this review Josh, you weren't supposed to go head first! Luckily you managed to get your head out before all the follicles were removed. 👴😁
Very true!
Wait, did he say the the varia surpassed the niche in static cuz it comes with a bellow and rdt bottle?
is he for real?
lol 😂 yes I am. I see the point you’re wanting to make though, and yes, the Niche performs better without using any tools versus the Varia without any tools - though IMO the Varia - with using all it’s included tools preforms better then the Niche, with its lack there of.
@@AlternativeBrewing I understand your point, but still the accessories you mentioned are so cheap to buy for the other grinder that it is out of the equation.
my god that high pitch grinding sound is awful, I'm sure it's a capable motor and all but it sounds like it's struggling
Where's my vs3? Taking ages to ship to Nz🙄. Just waiting for my new grinder so i can uograde my espresso machine form breville 😂
🙌 on it way !
Lagom Mini all day every day.
The Femobook is the Niche killer, not this Varia since it's too limited for espresso
Is it just me or the grinds look like they're different colours as well?
yeah they are. My theory is the different light refraction. So the grounds are in fact different geometries - with each grinder having like a fingerprint of how they grind the beans down to a powder - and this is what may make the grounds appear, under light, to be of different colours.
@@AlternativeBrewing Yeah I'd definitely agree, particles at different sizes and geometries will scatter light differently. It might even be possible to design a technque using this principle measure grind size geometries in future!
I can’t believe how much focus there was on it including a $0.25 spray bottle. 🙄
yeh - it's true - It's a small detail - a lot of grinders come with one now - but it's more and more evident you should be using one with Grinding - as it only makes grinding cleaner and brews better coffee too.
I’m yeah- it’s definitely an important part of the workflow.
A man after my own heart. I love that 95% Lindt choccy. 👍
🙌
Haha, I bought that exact same 95% Lindt bar today (we have a Lindt factory in town).
Love both Josh hahahaha. Varia using more in the filter and niche more in spro ❤❤❤
You don’t talk about burrs life, it’s important
1500kg life.. so like 10 years + at average of 20-40g dosing a day. That's a lot of years!
Shame about the stalling/choking of the varia 😢
Have experienced neither on the gen2 🤔
It has 100 or 150 W? I thought it had 150 W
100W 👌
Listening to the Varia is murderous
lol 😂 can hear those beans screaming
Did you use the actual filter burr for the Niche? NO WAY the cheap Vario made a better filter cup. No way.
It was the Zero - not the Duo 👌 But I can test that too !
Is this a paid advertisement for Varia VS3?
not paid by Varia no. we sell both grinders. A fan of both - just my hot take on what I think is a great grinder for the price.
The Varia sounds hideous!!! I would never get that 😅.
The _main_ problem with the Niche is that it looks like an ugly Pinguine… ;-)
hahahaha can't unsee this now 😂
Are you sponsored by varia ? A lot of your content these days are about the varia.
Varia VS3 gen2 mainly. Have always loved the Varia VS3 - ever since first using it, and would say it’s my ideal grinder, all things considered, without having to spend +$2k.
Not sponsored by them, our channel doesn’t have sponsors, but am looking at spreading the word about the Gen 2 🫶
The squealing from the varia….
That varia sounds like shit
doesn't have the most enjoyable sound no. Everything else about it's performance beats my expectations though 🙌
No