How Boeing Lost Its Way
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 чер 2024
- Boeing is an American institution. But one year after the grounding of the 737 Max, the company's stock has fallen by almost 50% and its future is anything but certain. So what were Boeing's failures in the aftermath of two tragedies in which the flawed plane crashed, killing 346 people, and can Boeing regain its elite status in U.S. aviation once more?
#Boeing #Aviation #Transportation
The Breakdown showcases rise-and-fall stories from the modern business world, told through the lens of Bloomberg reporting. Episodes look at what contributed to not only the success of a business or organization, but also the turning point at which the fall began. Prior stories covered include the NRA, Hertz, WeWork, Boeing, Kodack and many more. See the full series: • The Breakdown
--------
Like this video? Subscribe to Bloomberg on UA-cam: ua-cam.com/users/Bloomberg?sub_...
Become a Quicktake Member for exclusive perks: ua-cam.com/users/bloombergjoin
Bloomberg is the First Word in business news, delivering breaking news & analysis, up-to-the-minute market data, features, profiles and more: www.bloomberg.com
Connect with us on...
Twitter: / business
Facebook: / bloombergbusiness
Instagram: / bloombergbusiness
We have some exciting news! We’re launching channel Memberships for just $0.99 a month. You’ll get access to members-only posts and videos, live Q&As with Bloomberg reporters, business trivia, badges, emojis and more.
Join us: ua-cam.com/users/bloombergjoin
I wondered why there was so many commercials in the first half of this video. Now I know.
Dragon
@@maloyo7901333 13:12 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
It's pretty simple: an engineering company cannot be run by accountants.
Nor can the United States be run by its politicians and accountants. They are intrinsically corrupt.
I think the same
Elon Musk was right !
Not only engineering companies. Accountants have ruined a few companies here in the UK because of greed.
yes every great company losts its spirit when wall street take over
Who is here after Alaska's 737max-9 door incident?
✋🏼
Present
Here
👨💻👨🏻💻
Why is Boeing intent on professional suicide ?
This is what happens when the accounting department designs an airplane.
smart username bro
Welcome to the modern world. Remember everything has to make "Cents"
@@ishid_anfarded_king because they didn't know that the final product would fail. With modern companies they "Streamline" the building process and hope that the cuts will save them money , while creating a great product. but sometimes they streamline so much that it effects the final product
I mean, for accountants they made a pretty nice plane.
Not to entirely disagree, but did the accountants tell the software engineers to design software that ignored an available second angle-of-attack sensor?
I am Indonesian who lives in Singapore, and I traveled back and forth between Indonesia and Singapore like once every 2~3 months. After the accident in 2018, I add new routine to my booking process, checking what type of the aircraft for that flight. I will only book if it is airbus plane. Once someone/something destroy my trust, it would be hard for me to trust again.
And it should be that way
I mean, it's perfectly reasonable when the potential consequences are so horrible.
Airbus = Toyota of Airplanes
@@Embargoman would rather travel using a reliable Toyota than a flying coffin ⚰️ named Boeing.
@@hmjs13 And Airbus is like a flying Toyota now, this means that Boeing sooner or later is looking towards it’s grave.
This is what happens when you replace CEOs with engineering backgrounds, and 100 years of engineering excellence, with Accounting and equity CEO's, outsourcing and stock buybacks.
sad thing is Muilenburg has a bachelor's degree in Aerospace Engineering and a master's degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics
@@farcticox1409 the decision to upgrade the 737 to 737 MAX instead of developing a new model was the CEO before him, the non-engineer one.
This is what happens when neo-liberals take control.
@Karen Patterson that one hit hard! Your absolutely right!
@Paulo Eclectik 😂😂😭
Boeing is learning a hard lesson. Profits before safety = no profits.
They will learn exactly NOTHING.
As soon as this blows over they will be right back where they were.
dummgelauft actually I think this is a wake up call and they will come out on top long term.
money is valued more than human life
@FoxIslanderSteve Wall street doesn't even benefit, just stupid contract writing that allows execs screw over everybody on all sides.
My dad, Cliff Curtis, was at Boeing for 36 years, with an 11 year hiatus to go into his own law practice. He worked both in engineering and legal capacities as he had both an engineering and a law degree (as well as a business degree). Hence I called him "Mr 3 degrees". At his retirement party in 2012, we viewed a DVD called "Cliff Notes", a series of memorable memos that he posted through the years to fellow employees. It also included footage of him in a meeting, where he stated in his classic understated non-dramatic style, "Inevitably, there will be downstream costs to pay" (TRANSLATION: "Planes will crash."). I was never quite sure of the context. But after seeing this video, I'm even more convinced he was referring to the cultural change from engineering excellence to cutting corners.
Why didn't he speak up and go to the press? And I bet you have enjoyed a wonderful lifestyle and education because of his silence.
@@Doriesep6622 that's quite a serious accusation. Perhaps he only had a hunch and no proof, also imagine going against very powerful people...
Props to your dad , he was an amazing man.
Very interesting read👌🏻
Very cool dude, indeed!
I remember a year or so before the 737 Max crashes, seeing videos on youtube about safety concerns at a Boeing plant (not in the Seattle area) where a new Boeing jet was being built. I think it was the 787 Dreamliner in the South Carolina plant. Employees were complaining about shoddy practices, and being pushed by management to overlook these issues. Even safety inspectors were quitting in protest because they were essentially being told to not do their job.
I think i watched that same documentary too! It's scary how they were able to get away with it.
I think you're talking about the Al Jazeer documentary on the Dreamliner.
True. A major airline like Qatar Airways even refused to get 787s from that factory as a result of those incidents. Scary stuff.
@@ULTRA1BOB it was that yes
@@osasunaitor that's exactly right
The big problem was the managers thought that they knew more about engineering than engineers. Modern management works on the principle that management is the prime asset of a company and the workers are an expense, when in reality the workers are the prime asset of a company and the management team is the expense.
Yes especially CEO is a waste
If China's commercial industry launches, eclipsing Boeing.... that would be in some twisted way poetic justice.
@@zombyanteetoutza418 but then random innocent people die in the hundreds...
Exactly
spacecadet35 or, you know, they’re both important members of the team 🙄
My grandpa was an engineer for Boeing for 50 years. He’s the reason I love aviation so much. He died in 2017 and I know he’d just be heartbroken over all of this. We were a proud “Boeing family”, but these accidents are inexcusable and someone should be in prison.
Justin Hopkins Sorry for your loss; that’s a long career! I’ve been there (just) 30 years now...
32 years for me now. My dad was there 35 years and was one of Joe Sutters guys on the 747.
@@beernpizzalover9035 You and I have personally seen the changes at Boeing from when we started our careers.
STOCK BUYBACKS- LOOK IT THE FK UP
I was always amazed at the new innovations Boeing brought forth. The engineers of years gone by are probably sick at seeing the damage done to the company they built with integrity. I hope Boeing returns to the company it once was. May your grandfather rest in peace.
*"As long as greed is stronger than compassion, there will always be suffering"*
~Rusty Eric
Thats our government they get rich and we have to suffer through it.
Rusty who? What has he accomplished?
@@egpetridis shut up
It's been my experience as a practicing design engineer that it is almost axiomatic that when the bean counters take over management of a successful high-tech company that is the beginning of the end for the company.
Did you work in aerospace industry ?
totally, another example: Intel
@@melanotictus Another example: McDonnel Douglas. Merged with Boeing in 1st of August 1967.
“How Boeing’s greed killed hundreds of people” fixed the title for you!
that's an invitation for a lawsuit, my friend.
@@hlahlatway7677 Explain, my friend
Ohhhhh, but it was for the shareholders.
ukironman1 Yep i agree Boeing should sell the large aircraft assembly business to the Chinese. We dont need such vulgar high tech work, after all we are the land where attornies are self appointed doctors and can at any whim and any time revoke all our rights and freedoms to "protect" the incredibly cowardly ignorant public devoted like puppies to the manipulative media.
Then what caused the crash... and why weren't there accidents in the US?
What magic did the Pilots in the US have that the foreign governments didnt?
Having worked for Boeing, there was a significant shift once Mullaly left. Mullaly was an engineer and knew the products. The CEO's and Commercial presidents were bean counters. Right before I left, there was significant shift in hiring more administration than engineers. Very top heavy company for no apparent reason.
Airbus all the way!
I always liked Phil Condit
Today lost a door in Alaska and almost killed all.
Combine that with the DEI hiring at United at your chances of surviving a flight are bad.
United just had a DEI hire that set the flaps to the wrong position. The "actual" pilot saved the day by pulling the plane out of the dive at the last minute.
Fairly sure nothing happened to the DEI hire.
Boeing lost its way when it put a businessman in charge of an aviation company. It decided shareholders were more important than safety.
When an engineering company gets turned into a sales company...
Not quite Stonecipher's quote, but close.
@@jeffreypierson2064 sales and stock price company
MCAS = Money Comes Above Safety
May Crash Anytime Soon
😊
it can also be: Max Can't Air Safely
It would make more sense to say money before safety, otherwise it sounds like money is secondary to safety which doesnt seem like what you were going for
😁😊😀
The MCAS was first developed for the Air Force's KC-46 Pegasus refueling tanker, a 767. It was important because the frequent transfer of fuel from the KC-46 to a recipient aircraft made the center of gravity migrate with respect to the center of pressure; MCAS was intended to automatically counter this to avoid stalls and crashes and to reduce pilot workloads (the 767 has a flight crew of two; the previous KC-10 (DC-10) tanker and KC-135 tanker both had a third crew member, a flight engineer). The military implementation of MCAS was robust, relying on more than one sensor and pretty stout programming code. Boeing reasoned that the 737 MAX crews would need MCAS' intervention only rarely, so the implementation was more bare-bones (and cheaper). That was a huge mistake.
I am European and I root for Airbus, obviously, but I hope that Boeing will find back to its core values as an engineering company that for so many years produced fine, reliable planes. Outsourcing production càn work just fine, look at Airbus, but please keep the bean counters away from the factory floor. Strong real competition will drive manufacturers to produce better planes. Airbus and Boeing need each other.
It doesn't take 22 minutes to tell you why. I'll sum it up it one word: greed.
EA is one of the grandfathers of that word
BIngo!!
Get woke go broke.
Wall Street = yunohoos.
That's america in general nowadays. Our healthcare system, education system, justice system, politics, and even our infrastructure are all broken because of greed. America will run capitalism straight into the graves. One day capitalism will be a dirty word like communism.
aljazeera called it years ago. They cut corners on safety, they even had employees on camera saying they wouldn't fly in it.
Al Jazeera is a really underappreciated news network, along with RT. You'll never hear this kinda stuff in advance on Fox, CNN, MSNBC, etc
@@excellenceka I completely agree. Some of the fairest and unbiased reporting that I've read comes from Al Jazeera.
@@excellenceka Yes you won't, because it's bullshit. AlJazeera docu was about 787 and they pulled it cause it didn't reach required journalistic standards. Aviation experts all over the world openly ridiculed that documentary, as they should. It was meant as a bargaining tool to lower the price of 787s to Qatar.
Arved Ludwig Al Jazeera is not a Russian news organization and they are very candid about their funding sources. Get off the Faux
Mitja Irsic Share your sources. Interesting proposition...
I like how she used the term "financial engineering" - it's a great term, basically moving poker chips around on the table instead of making a quality product. A terrible strategy.
"Well, at least we only killed foreigners" says they. 'Well, and an American or two, but on foreign land". "Fix the plane? No! We got to fix the share price!!"
_"Designed by clowns, overseen by monkies"_ It would be funny if people haven't actually died in the result of this.
"Designed by clowns, overseen by monkies".....AND aided and abetted by our OWN government.
I wonder where all the $$$ for the head of the F.A.A. and all the people who work within the F.A.A. comes from??? Who supplies their desks and office space? Who pays for their travel? Their gear? Oh! TAX-payer funds supply all the $$$$. I see. Not getting much for our investment, are we.
@@JustMe-vk4fn everybody knows that . FAA is governed by companies like Boeing
Nah I still think it’s funny that people still think that the government can do something. The truth is that they can not.
@@kirilmihaylov1934 All these regulatory bodies have no real power: they're politically reined-in by the interests that they are supposed to oversee.
@@orlandoburgos9190 They. Can they just cannot be bothered. Imagine a leader doing the right thing on tv- That'd be a miracle.
We know Boeing is on the wing course so long as they're headquartered in Chicago. Move back to Seattle so management and engineering can communicate. That's the legitimate first step. All else is lip service
BS, everybody has a cell phone and manufacturing and engineering are secondary.. Chicago is closer to DC, where the magic happens. Dummy
@@drewpknutz1410 Spoken like a true Wall Street worshiper.
@@drewpknutz1410 Then why not move to DC? I think they want UA's business.
@@drewpknutz1410 thats the dumbest thing ive heard . closer? its still very very far from dc you can't drive you have to take a plane
so glad TESLA and SPACE-X has that kind of culture.
management and factory in one place. all majority is in house.
Boeing and General Electric have both lost their way when general management decided aeronautical or product engineering was out and financial engineering and greed was in.
true
Yep, Everyone said how great Welch was at GE. Well we all see the end result now. Boeing will be the same in the end.
Moving from innovation to profits ironically killed both
Boeing didn't lose its way...American schools of business and management did.
@Sam S Who do you think created those buffoons? American business culture is rife with these kinds of people. Why do you think every single major American company does stock buybacks? Why do these companies rarely reinvest their profits in their employees anymore?
Really? What changed in business studies?
@@burtonl7239 Business schools have abandoned their roles as independent academic institutions, instead serving as “cheerleaders” to American corporations in the hopes of securing donations and access. It is difficult for any business school professors, to stay objective about the ideas behind a position, if the person who holds those ideas is funding you...The business school world has successfully convinced itself that business ethics is its own thing. Oh how about that "hippocratic" oath for MBA students? A joke actually.
Every major corporation and billionaires fund universities in some or the other way. The University I did my masters in I was told that the syllabus at the business school was changed by the donations and a thinktank specifically established for that purpose by the koch brothers
There should be a limit to just how much money a man can make! When you can buy politicians or see to it your man or woman is put in certain political offices, or buy judges, Police, or influence what is taught in colleges you have to much money and that will just about always guarantee you don't have to play by the same rules as your every day Joe does, you and your family will never have to play fair and this is how being able to make any amount money will corrupt just about any man! Now you can disagree all you want but the fact is money is power and they BOTH corrupt when it becomes unlimited! There has to be a limit to just how much any man can make! If a man is making all that money, why not share that with all the people below him, the real backbone of the company like the single mothers and dads working from paycheck to paycheck while the top enjoys the fruits of the bottoms labor! We need BIG change in the way the wealth is divided in this country and it needs to start with a set limit on just how much is too much!
GE, GM, IBM, Chrysler now Boeing. Maybe some of the B-school professors can teach something different other than profit at any cost....
They should teach history
This is the legacy of Milton Friedman. A market where the companies care only about the stock holders.
TESLA, SPACEX there is a way
CEO's only care about their short term bonuses. They don't care what happens to the company in long run.
The problem is the B School professors know nothing about engineering and the engineers that go to B School get brainwashed. There's a difference between a manufacturer that makes widgets and one`s that makes aircraft, electric infrastructure, gas infrastructure, skyscrapers and ect.
I used to work for a publicly held company traded on NASDAQ. As they approached the dreaded "end of quarter" reporting period, the frequency of bad decisions increased exponentially. In order to show that X amount of product shipped that quarter, they would ship machines that had not completed their quality checks. The machines would arrive at various customers around the world with a long list of minor defects. Then our service department would spend a fortune in manpower and expenses to deal with all the issues that should have been fixed prior to shipment. This insanity would repeat every quarter. Thankfully, I don't work there anymore.
And here we are, three years on and apparently nothing has changed.
I worked at Boeing Commercial for a number of years as a design engineer. I worked with some of the most learned aeronautical engineers that I have ever known but the business management was the worst that I have ever witnessed. Why you might ask? Well simply because the company gave no respect to the very engineers that wanted to use their expertise to design safe aircraft. We were all treated like a commodity, to buy or to sell at will. And there was nothing that anyone could ever do about it.
Today I value the time I spent working with my colleagues more than I do than the time spent working for a company for which I once held great respect.
You worked at BCA? In Wash or Cal?
A prime example of corporate culture in many big firms nowadays: little innovation, stock buybacks, mediocore products, layoffs, little competition, lots of M&A activity,
huge profits, politically well-connected. We really need to think about how to inject more dynamism into capitalism again.
Bot boeing has had competition..
Airbus?
@@nutzeeer it's more a duopoly. They compete to an extent but not enough to rock the boat.
Easy, we let them fail. No more bailouts.
When Detroit pushed engineers out of the way for the accountants Japan showed up and kicked their butts. Same with Thiokol and the Challenger disaster. The engineers said no but balance sheet experts had the final say.
Chinese comac are coming for Boeing the way Japan came back then 👎
The phrase " time to take off your Engineering hat and put on your Managment hat" is probably the dumbest thing ever said inside the walls of Thiokol.
Spoiler alert from 2024: Boeing is in fact still not on the right course.
This doesn't even take into account their Starliner fiasco.
Ash NASA threw everything at Boeing and prayed for them. Their budget is 30% more than SpaceX. Now what, SpaceX gonna deliver Astronauts to ISS very soon
Boeing should give that extra money to space x
Exactly, what a fiasco with numerous failures. I read a report that Boeing has agreed to do another test or that NASA is making them do another test launch, but the statement was so full of obfuscation that unless you knew what had happened you wouldn't know for sure.
Focused on feminism.
@@memyselfandi8544 I can't see how that fits in with the "new economics" (e.g. fire older competent engineers and managers and hire replacements from India) but it somehow does.
they lost alot more than their way.
impylse their flight path?
They lost your way
@@CounterRyu lost it...
Namely billions of dollars and the trust of the paying public
half their value on their stock
I worked at Boeing during the decline. All I have to say is...LEAN. Endless fucking LEAN. I was low level, but still it was heartbreaking. We all were left wondering WTF?
Everyone used to look at these aviation giants with respect and awe, and we step on a plane everyday trusting that this is the very best of human engineering. And now, we've come to this...
As soon as HQ moved from Washington to Chicago, that was the big red flag
After the McDonald merger the company started going downhill! They just paid the old CEO 60 million to leave the company. Hell people would leave for 1 million!
Agreed. McDonnell is a horrible curse of greed.
@@Itsme-mx5tl nice and bull crap Boeing has has problems since at least 1980. Jal 123 a crappy Boeing repair. No body hog tied and force Boeing to buy MD
@@krissp8712 wrong Boeing did it to then self
Can confirm
This is what happens when the sales team takes over.
That was the case with MD and DC-10 production 40-odd years ago: profits and sales were more important than safety.
Not exactly. This is what happens when big capital takes over government agencies.
They’re learning the lesson of GM after the bean counters took over.
Back in the 60’s, there was a shift from engineers to MBA’s running companies, since then, quality, product life, and safety has gone down hill.
@@None-zc5vg them why do MD planes last longer then boeing planes
This is what happens when a company is more focused on profits rather than providing a quality product.
We are watching again 😢
Steve Jobs said it best in an interview after he was ousted as CEO of Apple. Sales people start to get promoted in successful companies. The genius that got the company to where it's at starts to get rotted out and the mindset of the company changes toward sales and profit. Boeing couldn't be a more perfect example of this.
Jobs interview - ua-cam.com/video/NlBjNmXvqIM/v-deo.html
True. Everybody should stay in their lane.
Not really, what made Boeing lose its way was more the roots from the 90s.
McDonnell Douglas essentially bought Boeing with their own money, or you can think of the parasite that gets eaten but ends up taking control afterwards.
And the reason this happened was because after the merger with McDonnell Douglas, a lot of THEIR CEO's got high positions in Boeing.
And McDonnell Douglas was very much against new designs and rather making rehashes and thinking of money and profits, so the downfall started there.
Very true for sure in this case . Sad .
Exactly, and having a Board member since 2009 now at the helm is only going to lead to more of the same results. Damn, I wish Elon had time for planes.
@@alekseysoldatenkov5675 Would be best if a company like Lockheed teamed up with Tesla to produce electric airlines.
Half the amount of MBA's in leadership positions, fill them with engineers.
Sad part is that most of those MBAs are engineering undergrads. Its a company culture problem. Its not just the expertise of who they hire its their personality and morals too
As a future Mba, it pains me to see how much MBA´s often ruins companies, if you read the book Innovators dilemma it shows the exact same thing just on a less deadly scale that we have been taught to go for short term profits rather and functional excel spreedscheets rather than a sounds strategy with focus on the product.
@Alex McAuliff To be honest i don't think the entrepreneurial mindset can't be taught in school.Its a trait.I really don't get why MBAs are overhyped, accounting degrees are much better.
Narrator: 2019 is not the best year for boeing.
2020: Hold my beer.
2021: Hold my whiskey.
@Teresa FaintSmile actually, their stocks are up. And I’m not saying that I’m a Boeing fanboy, just like to tell you,
2021: a hundred 737MAX have been grounded again, the 777X keeps adding delays, the whole 787 production is being moved to the SC plant with quality control issues... They aren't recovering this year either
@@osasunaitor oh yeah .bad news for the flying public
2021: Hold my cockpit
"To their credit - they did"....(meet the deadline on the 737 Max etc.) Clearly they DIDN'T - it's like saying that they actually met the deadline with the 787 also by presenting an empty shell.
"Unfortunately some of the critical engineering decissions that were made....." Again, untrue. The unfortunate decissions were CLEARLY not made by engineers. They were made by management fixated on changing an aircraft unfit to the changes they wanted and then forcing the engineers to handle it by introducing bad systems. Furthermore, the new systems were purposely down-played by Boeings management and even by FAA-"inspectors", paid by Boeing.
These people are killers, plain and simple.
What happens in the dark... Eventually comes to light.
Richard Feynman, on reference to the Challenger Disaster back in the 1980s, once said, “Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled”. “Take your engineering hat off and put on your management hat” culture at NASA back in the 80s has been a textbook example when accountants and management takes over the jobs of engineers, disaster may be inevitable.
This is the problem with what I call "patch-work" culture. Instead of truly diving into the design and figuring out solutions, Boeing opted for the initially cheap and simple patch. Patch this, patch that problem that came from the previous patch, patch the new patch derived problem.. eventually you get a bunch of patchwork instead of a full clean sheet and in the aircraft production bussiness, that ends up killing people.
This is the price of Boeings recent lazy approach to aircraft engineering.
4:52 This grandstanding is incredible
Boeing lost it when pleasing Wall Street became a higher priority than building excellence into the product. This happens **EVERY** time Bean Counters gain control of Engineering/Manufacturing companies.
I been binging business decisions failures on UA-cam for a while. And most of them, have Jim Cramer praising the company. I guess I'll starting watching him to see which company to short sell.
Here we are... almost 4 years later... nothing has changed.
This is very sad. One of America's oldest and most respected aircraft manufacturers, who made the famous 80+ years old B-17, 29 and 52 heavy bombers and that won wars and survived terrible combat damage, as well as iconic airliners, have planes of today that have teething troubles like the wood and fabric biplanes of pioneer aviation.
The top level guys who work for this company are soulless. The blood of the innocent are all on their hands.
IF I were a betting man, I'd put money on Boeing's decline starting after the appointment of one of the supposed "GE Wonderkids", ie James McNerney took the helm. After Jack Welsh retired and James lost his chance at GE, he ended up at 3M Company where he decimated their culture and moral within the 4 years of his tenure there before ending up at Boeing. Fortunately 3M survived and excelled with the next brilliant CEO who happened to be an engineer rather than a bean counter. One of the other sicko GE wonderkids in succession for Welch's job, Robert Nardelli ended up at Home Depot, who paid $210 million to get rid of him after a few short years. Nardelli then went to Chrysler and took them into bankruptcy. The guy who ultimately succeeded Jack Welch at GE, Jeff Immelt took their stock from $60 down to about $30 at the time of his retirement in 2017. Clearly a bunch of great leaders, these GE Jack Welch students. But hey, at least they all got rich even if their employees got burned!
@@sean7134 amen man. I fled the sad rest of what GE Power left of Alstom Switzerland 1 year ago.
You can add Boeing board member Mike S. Zafirovski to the list. He was at GE for 24 years. He later went on to lead Nortel Networks into bankruptcy and collect ungodly amounts in bonuses while doing it. He should be removed from the board.
Retired Boeing Engineers here. It started with the MD merger and picking Stoneceipher over Mullally. No merger, then 787 disaster doesn't happen. We could then have taken the budget over runs and done clean sheet 737 and 757 replacement and the stock would be way higher.
@@eastsidebubbainteresting. I would love to hear details.
Had to come back here after the Alaska Airlines 737 MAX 9 debacle 😅
As someone who years ago, interviewed for and was accepted at a position at Boeing's Osprey program, in Ridley Park, PA (I declined the position/salary I was offered), the subject of Boeing's apparent decline has been subject of much thought for me for some time since, but it greatly intensified after the tragic failures related to it's MCAS system. What has happened at Boeing is somewhat complicated, with numerous contributing factors, but unfortunately these are not isolated to just the Boeing company. We are in lots of trouble if we do not recognize and correct the rampant corruption within our politics, the effects of which, by extension, are now undermining even our core industries. I'm afraid it may already be too late.
@Kalambong Kalambong is right. I remember when the Max crashes happened, I pointed the blame squarely at Type Rating and the issues that surround it, as well as where the corruption had to have reached: Boeing leadership and senior engineering, FAA, airline executives, etc. It was funny to hear people give excuses about how it was only on Boeing - you don't get to force out a plane with the same type cert with so many differences unless a lot of bribes were going around.
Exactly, I've been putting all the pieces together but have yet to find a piece of work or book talking about this.
Ever since the fraudsters ( Rothchilds ) took over printing money, and with the dollar unpegged from the gold standard, currencies have deflated. It all goes back to this fiat currency.
WHY you may ask?
Simply because people now can't make ends meet with what their parents or grandparents could with the same amount of money.
This has created a culture of cheaper is better for my budget. This in turn effect's a county's economy and then when that country is ordering Planes, they too now pressure manufacturers for CHEAPER planes.
You can only go so cheap before it becomes a safety hazard and this, is why I think, brought BOEING down to their final straw. They had to make a profit, and its effects were shown by these two tragedies.
@Jan Chelminski - your story hit home as I turned down a Boeing job in December of 2017. At the time, Boeing and Embraer were in deep discussions for a merger. It was an excellent opportunity to live and work in Brazil again. However, the timing wasn't right for my current job, and I would have left them with a long gap in finding a replacement. I am loyal to a fault sometimes, and I didn't want to screw over the people who I worked with that depended on me. So I stayed and had many stressful nights, lying awake, feeling like I was throwing away my future afterward. I even drafted an email saying I reconsidered in March of 2018 but never sent it. Fast forward to Fall of 2018 and the first 737 Max plane crashed, then another. Then the merger fell apart for the most part. The COVID-19 shut down caused Boeing to lay off 7k employees. Needless to say, I don't lose anymore sleep over not taking that job.
@@soldat2501 No Embraer should never accept merger offer by Boeing. Embraer has to continue its innovations and one day I hope Embraer can become key competitor that can produce 737-class aircrafts. We need stronger competition to keep this giant Boeing in check.
@@nurburgringkid i said the same thing in another 737 max video, that the Chinese , Brazilian, Canadian and Russian planes needs to step their game up so they can create a healthy competition between the only 2 company's that control the market.. i don't want to buy a flight ticket and having to fly a B-Max. i mean, if I want my plane to crash I rather do it in one that The media likes to demonize all the time(Russian, Chinese) but most ppl wouldn't expect that from a Boeing plane but the reality is on the contrary. To add more gasoline to the fire, the media (western mostly ) always throwing flower and praising western planes and demonizing other countries companies, but I never heard the same media criticize a Boeing 737 plane that was designed in the 60s still operational.
Just imagine this aircraft was from China or something like that, how the media would write the news haha
Funny Thing is , China Grounded the Plane and Everyone Else took their Lead.
Yep the 737 max 8 first time suspend it come from china
IT ISN’T. IF IT IS....GE EXECUTIVES WOULD ALL BE FACING FIRING SQUAD.
apparently there has even been scrutiny in the FAA itself, they have been showing leniency and lack of oversight.
@@clementong6332 That would probably be because in China, most major companies are either state owned or controlled greatly by the state. And the state is synonymous with the CCP. Boeing is an independent, private company.
Considering recent events, it looks like nothing has actually changed
KLM didn’t want to buy 787’s from a specific plant because the QA there was appalling
Once your livelihood surrendered to the Wall Street guys, you’re lost.
This describes pretty much every major corporation nowadays. It's all about executives getting richer. When CEO's cant live off of 50 million a year, but people who earn minimum wage die because of it, the system is broken.
It happens when engineers realize management no longer cares or wants to hear about engineering issues delaying timelines. It changed from an engineering company to a profit based focus company.
Reminds me of Rolls Royce in the early 70's when they went under on the RB211 jet engine and called in Stanley Hooker - their former CHIEF ENGINEER to bring them back from oblivion - and NOT a bloody accountant!
The solution is quite simple. You can't have accountants running technology companies. Because if it was up to accountants, we would still be riding horses, not driving cars.
Maybe the title should be "How Boeing and the FAA Lost Their Ways"
Moving Boeing's head office to Chicago where thry have no factories is a prime symptom of what has gone wrong at Boeing...
Bean counter culture in a technology company. What could go wrong?
Nothing
Everything
The company becomes a has bean.
GM.
The bean counters are trying to hoodwink the airlines by flogging them Ladas as Rolls Royces!😂 Lol.
I think the airlines have wisened up now,;if you want a Rolls Royce then go for an Airbus.
American business practice!
That's what killed them.
No, you killed them killer.
takeadayofff no, you killed the killer, killer
That's so shortsighted. Their entire phenomenal rise was based on "American" business practice as well.
@@burtonl7239 That's so short sighted - little to do with any "American" business practices. Got more to do with being a military-industrial complex and being bankrolled by the US taxpayer, aka American Socialism. Same business practices that gave us Bhopal, tobacco...
False, American cars. Safe most american planes, safe, American rockets fairly safe. Etc
2 years later: Proof of the theory.
When the first crash happened, armchair pilots like myself scoffed when fingers were pointed at Boeing. We immediately blamed the pilots because all they had to do was hit the trim cutoff switches.
But when pilots hit those switches, they don’t turn off MCAS, they just cutoff MCAS’s ability to change the plane’s nose. How? By turning off the electric motor that controls the flight control surfaces responsible for controlling the plane’s nose.
With that motor off, they had to literally pull out handles and turn them by hand to move those heavy, motor less, control surfaces. And when flying at 500+ km/h, the aerodynamic forces acting on those control surfaces will make turning that handle virtually impossible.
Still, a lot of armchair pilots blamed the pilots of the lion air and Ethiopian plane crashes simply because they weren’t American.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." Richard Feynman
The ultimate irony here is that Richard Feynman's statement applies as much to accounting and business as to technology. Why is this not taught in business school?
@@fewerbeansplease they should really be teaching ethics in business school. it should be an absolute requirement.
Boeing moving headquarters to Chicago, in hindsight, was likely the marker of the start of their downfall.
Why?
Then a black man becomes new CEO and shift the quality control expertise to Japan that quality control office is moved to Japan while Boeing is based in the US.
A black CEO at Boeing with a Japanese COO and having Japanese quality control experts and having Japanese corporate culture, what black folks say that a black man fixed Boeing and then you see Boeing working like a Japanese company based in America with a black CEO.
This will make news for the record that a black man makes Boeing works like Toyota.
@@Septimus_ii That's pretty obvious.
A once proud city reduced to essentially a murder zone and with the most corrupt city government in history due to it being a mere mafia (DemoncRAT) party theft zone guarantees catastrophic failure at the highest level.
It doesn't help that they discontinued the 757 when they could have updated it with 787 parts. It would have eliminated the need for the 737 MAX.
I say it's the merger with McDonnell Douglas is where Boeing started to fall.
The fact that Stonecipher came from the malevolent management incubator at GE speaks volumes.
I was at Boeing in Everett, WA in 2011 AD and what I learned about the Boeing culture completely shocked me. I was an architect with IBM and we worked on the Boeing Electronic Delivery Service (BEDS) which is responsible for all the Loadable Software Airplane Parts (LSAP). Employees were angry at management because of the relocation of their headquarters to Chicago, and also the labour dispute that resulted in a 2nd 787 factory to Charleston, SC. On an individual level, the folks there were very nice, but they had become demotivated with Boeing.
What’s LSAP could you explain more please, what the function is and what it does?
@@arbjful Due to regulations, a plane's certification, manufacturing and maintenance is an extremely arduous process. LSAP stands for Loadable Software Airplane Parts. Prior to BEDS, every piece of software that was delivered to a specific plane, I don't mean the model, but to an exact serial number of the plane, had to be delivered by a special courier using CD's. And the approval and provisioning of the soft have a complex bureaucracy above it. And software requires continuous updates during the lifecycle of the plane. There is software for avionics, engine control, entertainment system, HVAC, communication, navigation, just to name a few.
For the 787 Boeing needed a new system, and thus IBM was contracted to build a Public Key Infrastructure (PKI) to support this complex process just on the technical side.
By 2010 AD, the 787 was already late and the BEDS project was in trouble as well. I on boarded to the project in late 2010, and slowly helped on the project as an architect on BEDS, which at least facilitated the software issues on the production 787's, which was then successfully launched in late 2011, where ANA took delivery of the first one with a lot of fanfare.
Meanwhile I was shocked at the work culture at Boeing.
@@edwardwong654 wow amazing process, never knew the complexity involved.
@@arbjful Trust me, it is not as exciting as it sounds. The Boeing folks were awesome. I felt closer to them than my IBM teammates. Nevertheless the Boeing culture was dysfunctional. The system was very complex in both the technology and the business rules. I overheard things from the Boeing folks (engineers I think) that scared me. I used to joke that I would never fly in one. fast forward 2019 AD, and my company, not IBM, bought me RT ticket from Saigon to London. It was actually quite comfortable, even in coach. But what those people did on the 737 MAX is criminal. Also, all code releases had to be scrutinised and approved by the FAA. I was also on a project at St Jude Medical, where all code had to be approved by the FDA. The problem is that they are all in bed together, no pun intended.
Let's not forget the Space program debacles with SLS and Star liner.
Dennis Muilenburg was fired the day after a 'failed' star-liner test flight.
Also when Delta Airlines ordered Bombardier CSeries Boeing lobbied to US government to put 300% import tariff on the plane. So Airbus bought CSeries program (now called Airbus A220) and build the planes on their Alabama factory. Meanwhile Boeing terminated their partnership with Embraer so they have no equal plane to A220
When Engineers were sidelined by accountants and lawyers ... it is first and foremost an Engineering company ..
Boeing became arrogant, I sent them a letter once with a design idea, I was told that they probalby already thought of it and mind my own business. Sad my dad cut my teeth on the B-52
Hey wanna hear a joke?
Boeing cares about our safety
😂
Lol
That joke is gonna cost us 500+ casualties
-Boeing
Nice👌
The money guys came in, cut production cost (quality&safety), resulting in a better bottom line and bigger bonuses.
D. Frank - ...and 348 fatalities from 2 foreseeable & preventable air crashes. The bean counters need to be tried for multiple counts of murder in a country where conviction doesn’t result on a slap on the wrist.
They killed the golden goose squeezing every last drop out of the firm.
@@grahamt5924 And the C-suite doesn't care, because they got theirs.
„Disruption of communication between engineers and management“. That sounds familiar to me.
Nice euphemism for "management ignoring engineers to make more money"
It happens in more organisations than we think. Me being and engineer and even the maganement also being engineers for the company I work for, communications always fall on deaf ears.
More like Financial people dictating what an airplane had to do and then expecting the engineers to design one that would do it, regardless of what kind of compromises had to be made.
Disruption be design by moving headquarters across the country away from all those pesky engineers...
Here we are in 2024 and Boeing still hasn't learned anything lol
Ohh boyy who is here after the Alaska one
Thank you Boeing, for handing sales to the superior manufacturer
Some dude from Europe
Yes, now Airbus has the lead and they deserve it. All knew the 737 was finished with NG modell. For all the money now lost they could easily have designed a completely new modell. Also, it was a big mistake to dump the 757. So you American must fly a A321 XLR designed in Hamburg, Germany.😂
@@robertradmacher4135 Yet buying American then your best plane is built in Mobile, Alabama.
@@Embargoman In Mobile, Alabama the final assembly is carried out after the parts are shipped from Europe, the A320s assembled in the US are for the markets in the US, Canada and Latin America.
@@dennis12dec Their is also Airbus planes that are made in China for the Chinese market.
@@Embargoman Yes there's an Airbus final assembly hall located in Tianjin, Liaoning Province, spot on but the parts are manufactured in Europe and flown to China for final assembly. The A320 final assembly hall in Hamburg, Germany are for markets in Europe, Asia, Middle East, Africa, Australia and New Zealand.
The new engine did not fit on the old design. Clear as day.
Oddly enough it would have fitted ok on the MD-95/717...
It fit just fine.. it was a more powerful engine, but they tried to apply an automation solution to make the plane fly like the original engines. The idea being to save training pilots for the engine change. This is copying Airbus, who love them some automation.. and who have had their own problems with similar systems.
@@hawkdsl The larger diameter caused pitch up issues at high angles of attack. This delayed stall recovery unacceptably - MCAS improved the stall recovery time to the acceptable level.
@@hawkdsl No the engine is NOT more powerful. It is just physically bigger. It burns much less fuel than the previous version for the same thrust however.
@@allangibson8494 Thanks, that's what I was getting at though.
This aged like fine wine
Investors should be there to support companies, not the other way around.
The tragic, but inevitable result when the bean counters take over the pilot's seat.
so when’s the ceo at the time and everyone involved going to jail for this?
Absolutely never. How dare you. They receive a bonus and stock options just a day before they are "fired", which in that world means getting a huge cushioning that is so big that several families could live well off of it for a lifetime. $20 Million is nothing for people like that.
Because it's not considered as a 'crime'. Yeah, a lot of people have been killed on incident because of Boeing greed, which put profit above safety. But....emotionlessly speaking, that's not a crime
Challenger and MAX.... Same problem.. instead of listening to engineers (because they say what bosses don't want to hear), they prefer to listen to bosses that have no clue on what is happening (but that will get big fat bonuses for ignoring the engineers)
This video was 4 years ago and Boeing is still lost.
Emblematic of the general decline of the US
America knows how to do one thing: sale and marketing bullshit products
WHY ISNT DENNIS MULLENBERG IN PRISON?!!
Cuz he's a white guy and a former wall street hero!
because he had nothing to do with anything, except for maybe his reaction. The MAX was designed and implemented by the previous CEO, but I know you idiots are too lazy to do any research
@@drewpknutz1410 Did the former CEO get into any hot water? No? See...
IT would be interesting to compare how Boeing is being run compared to it's biggest competitors and the importance of the innovation and engineering in these companies. It's interesting to see that Airbus for example did move it's head office to Toulouse where it's main engineering and innovation center is placed while Boeing moved it's headquarter to Chicago.
So tragic. My heart goes out to the families of all the victims. All major companies prioritizes profit over human lives and integrity. Disgusting.
Airbus takes care of passengers
Moving headquarters to Chicago from Seattle was a big mistake.
This report ended weakly. It doesn't emphasize that the board at Boeing that caused these problems is pretty much unchanged from before. They are pretty much all MBA or systems theory ideologues, rather than engineers. To quote one of my favorite authors on this, John Ralston Saul, "no matter how bad a job MBA's do, they just keep on hiring clones of themselves".