Pink one was cavitating. That's why it wasn't doing much and making that "rock crusher" noise. Can't really draw much suction against a vapor bubble. That also indicates it's going too fast for that impeller design. As far as testing otherwise, might be interesting to see what kind of head column the different pumps could produce. (The ability to increase pressure or pumping vertically up a tall pipe.) There are more factors in regards to pumping effectiveness than maximum flow rate. Thus in different applications the slower design for this test may still come out as being more favorable.
@@Boz1211111 Actually, it looks like it is. The sound is heard on both the distance and underwater cams, and you can visually see the bubbles inside the pump on the later.
Yes, agree with you. Vacuum capacity could also be a big variable (pump out of water, what intake hose length is the maximum for the pump to initiate flow and pressure). Could be tested both horizontal and vertical (pump above water surface)
'Rpm, amperage, pressure .' Exactly, first thought. You need at least current so you can do current/liter/hour and find the best efficiency when just the fastest rate isn't the priority. Much more useful with just a little more data collected..
Centrifugal pumps are often measured in how much head pressure they can pump against and the flow rate at different pressures. I would bet the 6 blade would come out ahead on pressure.
This was interesting. Changing the battery mid test could skew the results, I suggest a more reliable power supply. Changing the design of the inlet face and size could improve the ability of the impeller to direct the flow. The inlet face seems overly open.
The battery should be charged after every test, actually. Lithium batteries are 4.20 volts fresh off the charger, and drop to a nominal voltage of 3.7V soon after you start using them.
I maybe can explain, why gray and pink is less efficient: These pumps rely on centrifugal force, so they pump by pushing the water/air/whatever u pump to the outside. As soon as the blades are curved the motion of the pumped fluid/gas to the outside is disturbed. And these disturbances have the effect of lower efficiency (because every disturbance of the motion of the pumped liquid/gas is an energy loss) Sorry if my eng isn't this flawless, i'm actually from germany ... :)
-Make a testing rig having constant head at suction... - try experiment with both CW and CCW rotation of curved vanes. - do another experiment to measure the static head at outlet of each impler.
If the gray impeller was connected to the spine, it would have worked better but not as efficient. ,There is actually too much volume of plastic in the design for it to be effective because it is reducing the void available for fluid to enter the chambers. As the old saying goes, it looks good on paper until you use it in the real world.
Please print these designs in their mirror images (opposite parity). The ones you printed are for counter clockwise spin and the outlet on your housing is for clockwise spin.
Incorrect. While somewhat counter intuitive, the vanes of an impeller in a pump are more efficient when they are swept 'backwards'. Consider what you're trying to do with a pump like this - you're trying to *throw* the fluid out and not scoop it in. Backward swept is correct, but something in his geometry was not compatible with his housing, motor speed, inlet/outlet. Pumps are surprisingly complex. What would have been very interesting is to compare the head as well across all these pumps. It may be the case that the red/grey impellers were lower flow but were capable of a higher head. Having a current readout on the motor during the test would have given us some relevant data on efficiency and how much 'work' the pump was doing as well.
This is incorrect way of making a centrifugal pump. See it as an inverted wing of an airplane. When the blades rotate, a negative pressure is formed below the wing (pump blade), causing the liquid to be pulled from the centre towards the blade. Because the inner diameter is smaller than the outer diameter of the pump, the liquid will (with centrifugal force) accelerate outwards and hit the hull of the cochlea. The motion and pressure of the liquid will eventually spin out of the outlet with a lot of force.
It's counterintuitive to look at, but I think it makes sense. The curved blades push the water from center to rim at close to a constant speed whereas the straight blades provide acceleration from center to rim. This creates a stronger negative pressure in the center of the turbine pulling more water in and obviously it pushes water out at a higher velocity, net head being higher than one with curved blades. This would be less important in reverse I believe.
The grey one has low volume but high pressure, while the green and blue ones are a designs for low pressure at high volume! The pink one is medium pressure at medium volume. With tangential wings you need more blades.
@@tbdcreations5370 The values pressure and flow are already connected to each other, but the more pressure you want to produce the less flow you get @Mafioso Max there are characteristic curves for pumps ... Google ;-)
EumlOriginal You’re right, my mistake. They’re connected but they are tradeoffs, essentially a difference of mechanical advantage. Mafioso Max suggested they both increase together.
when looking at pump efficiency you will need to chart the power vs head over the whole range. one pump might perform better at a certain load point but worse at another. you can look how it is done, Google pump curve.
Interesting build. And well done video. I want to give some background information about pumps, as i have designed and tested industrial pumps as an engineer. In general there are three important variables you should measure while testing the pump. The first is the Flow. This is the volume divided by the time, which you essentially measured. The second is the Head of the pump. This is essentially a measurement for the pressure the pump provides. Measuring this can be done in an diy environment by connecting a hose to the discharge side of the pump and measuring the hight, which the pump can increase the water level in the hose to, while the hose is facing upwards vertically. importantefficiency. The efficiency of the pump is defined as (hydraulic Power output)/(Mechanical Power input). For your purpose measuring the Input of electrical Power would be sufficient, as the electrical motor has roughly the same efficiency in all cases. With these three simple measurements you could truly classify your impellers and rate them against each other. This is important as an impeller with straight blades will give you a higher output in pressure, but will worsen your efficiency. That's the reason, why they used straight blades in the case of the car pump. Changing the blades from straight to curved on the small pump won't change the overall efficiency of the car, but will increase manufacturing costs quite a lot. It could be, that your 6 bladed curved impeller will give you a worse Flow and Head, but will do so at an higher efficiency. My guess regarding the bad performance of the red impeller is, that cut blades in the centre will drastically worsen the flow and will induce cavities, which lead to an overall lacking performance and can damage the pump in some cases. It would be awesome to see how your pump and impellers perform overall, especially regarding efficiency.
Did you measure wattage consumed? It would be interesting to track how the wattage and load on the motor changes in relation to the amount of water moved. There's a case to be made for a pump that moves less water while reducing load on the motor. Kinda like F1 racecar motors, going fast for just a few laps is one thing, commuting as a daily driver is a whole other use-case. Still, NICE VIDEO, thanks!
This is a cool idea . But you should test the pressure each impeller makes because I think curved blades increase pressure and decrease volume also angled blades do that too I think
The results are ENTIRELY predictable, but they have nothing to do with "efficiency". Measuring the different pressure created by each rotor at several flow rates would give a clearer result. Monitoring the current draw of the motor at the same time would be even better. It will be found that the rear-angled rotors (all of them except the blue rotor) create less flow when there is restriction to flow _on the output,_ but they also draw less power then. If the motor and battery are strong enough, mirror-image versions of those 3 rotors will pump MORE than the blue rotor, AND put more load on the motor. All perfectly standard stuff from Pump Theory.
But the gray one is most powerful one because pumping 'torque' is higher than others. It is like a 'car tyre air pump'. It can be used if you use it for pump *well water* from the deep of 'well'.
Blue also wins because it is 100% reversible and structurally stronger than green. Could you try pink but with mirrored blades, (so that they curve in the opposite direction)?
Your blades are spinning in the wrong direction! They should be forcing water towards the nozzle. In addition if they rotate in the correct direction ( clockwise) the curved blades will need to face the opposite way. I think you will get much better results!
The first and the last are the most efficient when it comes to pressurizing distance, these two models that I mentioned are used in centrifugal pumps. A primeira e a última são as mais eficientes quando o assunto é distância de pressurização, esses dois modelos que eu citei, são usadas em bombas centrífugas.
As a mechanical engineer I congradulate you for your designs. Also I have an EXPLANATION on the reason that geay and pink pumppropellers did not work efficiently. This type of propelers are called "forward bladed" and are used for very high flow rates....but with one very crucial condition!!! . .... the pump suction inlet must have enough presure head intake. In other word,if the pump is not submerged enough deep in the water tank the phenomena of "flow detachment" taces plakes between the water and the blades. So the blades are spinining but (in simple words) the water can't follow them.
Sorry I'm writing with Google Translate. The video was good. Try the gray and red paddles if you have the time and desire to print the other way around. Keep it up
@@Boz1211111 This pump is clearly cavitating with the pink impeller, this has nothing to do with power and everything to do with geometry. Cavitating in this pump is unlikely to damage the pump because of the low power but it will still drastically reduce pump efficiency.
@@MrAjam12 i thought that impeller is too big for this motor to spin it to such speed to cause cavitation, also, its curved impeller blade, so its even more weird
The curved ones were probably more efficient, but the other ones drew more power from the motor so they pumped faster. You have to test the power used by the motor to properly compare the efficiency
Interesting! Mmm, what will be the value for blue with 8 petals with 45 degrees? But for completeness of the results it was necessary to test in the opposite direction - with water intake from the side and exit from the middle...
Nice video and good idea but I have some suggestions 1) in some cases there was air in the turbine and this can cause worse performance, 2) You have operated this manually by holding pump in hands wich also cluld make diferences in performace 3) You have not measured presure wich in pumps is very important, becouse performance in liters are strictly dependent from presure or differential hight of outtake - intake. 4) there will be nice if You will create a graph l/min in one axis and presure (hight) in other.
You’re likely getting cavitation on all of them but I didn’t have to see the test to know the grey and pink ones with those longer vanes would be slower than the blue and green. If you could seal your pump housing and provide an inlet and outlet what we do on flow benches testing fuel pumps is put a clear piece on the inlet side so you can see the cavitation also different RPMs have different flow rates with a cavitating pump And really great video sorry forgot to be complementary!
It's right this way, first straight turbine blades convert more energy in speed, the others are more suitable for low speed and high pressure. Results are correct
Considering the way you're pumping water, wouldn't it be better to have a "scoop" on the water facing side of the blades with a long taper at the outlet side? This way you increase the amount of water pulled in as well as exit pressure. If you don't care about maximum pressure in the system then keeping the end between 90 and 45 degree will allow for the greatest amount of water throughput, also instead of a scoop it should be a vortex generator so water will resist less being pulled in.
Are you sure it turns the right way? The two curved impellors work only well, turning in the right direction. (Bendes backhands compared to the rotation).
Each of the propeller corresponding to one Pressure-volume curve. You need to apply a certain pressure to testify which one is more efficient. Under low pressure, the first two may dominate, yet under high pressure, the third one wins.
This is bringing back nightmares. I have worked on BMWS for 30+ years and from 1991-1996 they used plastic impeller water pumps. There’s a service bulletin about it. Every customer with an effected car I urged them to change the pump before it exploded or quit spinning because it stripped the shaft from the impeller. All replacement water pumps had metal impellers. When they blew you really need to get every last piece so you can rebuild it to make sure you removed the debris. It was put together to make sure everything was out of the engine. If you didn’t you ran the risk of a piece clogging a coolant passage and blowing the engine. Running a engine hot is the #1 cause of engine death. 80+% I have put in was due to a overheating issue where the owner drove it until the engine stopped because it locked up. If you cut it off when it starts tow it and fix it you can save a lot of money.
What happens if you add wingtips to the blades? As you say some of the results are a surprise. To be really vigourous, you should also run the motor in reverse with the port reprinted in the other direction. Who knows you might discover something. For a more precise measurement, just stop the timer when the water overflows the neck of the container instead of reaching the line marked on the container. You can measure/weigh the total capacity of the bottle later. I think some of the blade designs are meant for air instead of water.
Redo the test with the 5L container at a height of 2 meters and check flow again, this will give you a good indication of pump pressure. Some designs of impeller are better for flow others for pressure.
You didn't insure that the battery voltage wasn't dropping which would slow the pump motor, I agree that a pressure comparison would also help in determining most efficient impeller. Nice work..
Hello friend. Thanks for posting the video. Four impeller designs gave You different results in water flow but be sure that the pressure the pump could reach with each of them also differs. For the pink one, I gues the inlet was close to the bottom or the pump was taking air. For the pressure, I expect the highest pressure from the grey one.
I basically understand curved veins gives you a higher head pressure and lower flow rate and radial or straight veins gives you higher flow rate but lower head pressure if I recall my three or four semesters of fluid mechanics during mechanical engineering
In my opinion, due to the fact that the pipe is installed on the pump in a tangential way the straight blades were more effective in compressing water in a tangent direction. The concave blades create forces on the water towards the center of the pump and not in a direction tangent to it so less water is compressed into the pipe and from there into the bottle.
I think that, if you switch the terminals of the battery you will obtain extremely different results, but you should change with it the input and output of pipes, or/ you can print a new screws of same shape, but of different direction.
You have to look what is the efficiency of the pump so how many watts per liter is consumed. The other thing is that pumps have usually a flow / pressure curve here you do with the bucket at the same height as the tank but what if the bucket is one meter higher than the tank, will you have the same winner ?
The pump design is designed to reduce cavitation, mixing efficiency and durability. You have obtained good results in different models, but the durability is reduced because the formation of bubbles is greater.
I think the curved-blade designs would perform better if you performed the tests with a smaller inlet diameter. Especially with the pink impeller, it appeared that cavitation was evidence of flow reversal near the outer edges of the inlet. In other words, water enters along the center axis of the inlet, but some water exits the inlet farther from this axis. The curved blade design suggests that the optimum blade tip angle (i.e. near the outer diameter of the volute/housing) is detrimental for the inlet flow. I am not an expert, so this is just my opinion.
excellent test and video .. 40 years ago I had a cooling issue on my four stroke powered R/C model helicopters . . I conducted similar tests to yours . only using air .. not water . The biggest breakthrough was when I faced the cooling fan backwards and sucked the air PAST the motors crankcase prior to directing the airflow over the upper finned half of the motor . There is a two way spin off .. bigger fan equals more airflow .. BUT bigger fans take a lot of power , an amazing amount of power to drive at the 7,500 rpm motor power delivery.
I really admire your patient on doing this, but actually all pumps need a Q-H curve to be properly described.. for example the gray one is surely able to give an higher pressure than the green/blue ones. And if the 5L bottle was some meters higher the winner would have been the grey or red✌🏻
pumps has another very important property next to the volumetric flow rate, that is the outlet pressure. You can't judge a pump without knowing all parameters. There are pumps with low flow rate but high pressure, and oppositely some of them can have very high flow rate but low pressure.
All my small plastic submersible pumps have impellers same as the first one. However my larger pumps have impellers similar to the grey one. These are all commercially made bought online.
There are two main parameters to consider when dealing with pumps, the head, or H; and the flow rate, Q. Depending on the specific need or requirement. If you need to transfer liquid from a low to a very high elevation, pump designs provide the objective, with a high head but low flow rate. And, if you need a significant amount of flow, radial type pumps usually deliver a high flow rate but can only reach low to average head. Thus, depending on the specific requirement, the efficiency of pumps is measured. I suggest measuring the head of each type/design of impeller to know the relationship between the head and the flow rate of each design. Hope this helps, thanks.
Im thinking that the reason the red model was so ineficient is because youre getting a lot of cavitation or something along those lines. You can hear and see in the underwater clip that the motor is ramping up and down periodically. Im thinking that the shape of the blades are inducing a very low pressure zone behind them causing the issues.
its because the of the direction of the output. impellers should be scooping the fluid. without the scoop affect, it causes a negative pressure behind each of the impeller arms, where its going to pull fluid to fill the space behind each one, fluid can have variable friction so, its gonna surge with harmonics. if the impellers where facing the other direction to scoop as they should, then the negative pressure behind them is displaced by the scoop of the next blade, reducing friction of the fluid moving.. which in turn increases performance.
I think your pump housing may have an inefficient shape. If you look at some dust collector custom builds (Matthias Wandel and Marius Hornberger come to mind) you can see that they build the pump shape with an increasing gap between the impeller and the pump housing wall. It starts off very narrow near the outlet, and then grows bigger until it reaches the outlet, where it usually is the same size as the outlet. This would probably improve the efficiency of the red and grey impeller massively, since now you're purely relying on the blades kicking the water out, instead of building pressure inside the pump, and having that pressure push the water out.
Can You show the drawing of Involute of your pump casing, Red ( backward curved veins ) will perform better than other three, if the involute casing design is just right .
Fact: turbines with bigger gaps between each notch is going to be or will be the fastest/ most effective in water due to to amount of water being pushed out at one time.
The pump is kind of close to the water. You might want to put a longer shaft on it with a disk attached to the shaft to stop water from coming up. Maybe have openings in the orange part above the protective disk...
That blue one looks like the type you see on snow blowers here in the US. Also were the fins pritprinted right direction and was it spinning right direction?
The video is 100% real even I tested the same thing after 3d printing the different turbines and I also made sure about the polarity of the motor . ONE INTERESTING THING I FOUND OUT WAS THAT THE RED TURBINE OR THE LEAST EFFECTIVE TURBINE WORKED WAY BETTER WHEN SPUN IN OPPOSITE SIDE.
Wow I’m amazed. I would expect the pink one to pump more water since the fins were curved but the blue and green did best, why??? 🧐🤨 very interesting results.
Although it had the least volume per unit time, most probably, the pink one must be the best to raise water lever. It could be the one with the highest head delivery. Try experimenting this for your next video.
Its because the of shape from impeller, curve and straight. Curve shape make flow smooth, essential like sentrifugal work, ( low force than the straight blade, low vibration, long life working) able to handle back force pressure at the discharge pipe line that go vertical direction. The straight blade, its like, suck alot, and pull with high force but not essence like sentrifugal. (high consuming power cause of high force, and high vibration, better for small pump only.) Cant handle the force back pressure at vertical pipe line its will be crack the impeller
Centrifugal pumps need a volute to create pressure, consider different casing designs. Your exit port is also not in an optimal position to produce pressure. Do a bit of research on centrifugal pumps and you will learn a lot. I would consider a few other types of pumps such as gear pumps which produce a lot more static pressure than a centrifugal pump. In this application, the flow rate is not as important as static pressure for a pressure washer.
I was expecting the green and blue one to pump better, because the grey one is more curved and have more blades which means its just like a spinning DVD and the pink have 4 curved blades which means the water will just hit the tip of the blade and didnt spin. Disadvantages of blue and green is the motor will have to push heavier and if the motor is too strong and the blade material is weak, it could bend or break while grey will spin easily. The pink is the worst, it makes the motor heavy while not even pumping enough water.
Good day, I think a simple test whereby the static head in meters is measured and converted to kPa or bar. Simply place the pumps on the ground and see how high above the ground level, in m, the pump discharges the liquid. You can use this pressure and flow rates to actually determine the efficiency as (Pout/Pin) as flow rate is not really a good measure of efficiency, it's just a measure of flow rate. But still a cool video, keep it up!
I think the curved blades sacrifice speed for pressure. It would be interesting to measure head pressure also and see which ones do better at that. When you apply back pressure, the straight blades will be fine with just carrying the same water around in circles. The curved blades squeeze the water outward and load the motor. That's why car water pumps use straight blades. They want lots of flow and a limit to the load they put on the motor. If you have to pump up a long hill, you probably need the curved blades.
Grey was bad because of the number of the fins were a lot, creating friction. A more powerful motor that has same speed but better torque, the result whould be better for grey pump.
I made a gold dredge pump many years ago. same as the green one. i can add it had great pressure and volume, both needed in getting a gold dredge to work. Thanks for the video.
Have you tried 3 string instead of 4 string - and as "Jared Rohrbach Please print these designs in their mirror images (opposite parity). The ones you printed are for counter clockwise spin and the outlet on your housing is for clockwise spin."
You should also start looking at the casing and discharge pipe design. Also you are printing not very efficient impellers for pumping such fresh and clear water. If you want the most efficient design, try printing double shroud impeller.
I think curved blades would perform better with a tight housing design i.e., less clearance between the blades and the wall of housing, although the flat blades might benefit from this as well. Flat blades throw the water outward better where the curved ones energy is dissipated by allowing the water a smoother path around the blade.
I think the reason is simple, your motor didn't enough power for curve blades that have heavier load It will be fair if you also calculate the motor RPM under load
If you look closely during the pink colour test, water is escaping through the housing where you have 4 bolts securing the housing. Perhaps we need an oring seal in-between these surfaces?
![Testing Different Water Pump IMPELLERS - Which One PERFORMS THE BEST? [REMAKE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0nPJvRR5HLs/mqdefault.jpg)
Pink one was cavitating. That's why it wasn't doing much and making that "rock crusher" noise. Can't really draw much suction against a vapor bubble. That also indicates it's going too fast for that impeller design.
As far as testing otherwise, might be interesting to see what kind of head column the different pumps could produce. (The ability to increase pressure or pumping vertically up a tall pipe.) There are more factors in regards to pumping effectiveness than maximum flow rate. Thus in different applications the slower design for this test may still come out as being more favorable.
It wasnt cavitating, looks like hos is against the bottom on that one, wouldnt expect it that much worse than others honestly
@@Boz1211111 Actually, it looks like it is. The sound is heard on both the distance and underwater cams, and you can visually see the bubbles inside the pump on the later.
lol no. the pump has almost 1 atmosphere suction pressure.cavitaion happens when you have to suck the water up a few meters at high speeds.
It may be the battery. If the battery was not fully charged, the last test would result in less power.
what you mean pink, i just see red :)
You should also check how much pressure each generates by having them pump into the hose going straight up and measure the distance.
That's exactly what i was gonna suggest.. Also this is called Pressure head and it is measured in meters
Yeah I agree
@@zakariakhamees Yep, without pressure head the first numbers are meaningless.
i agree, try pumping water to varying elevations, from there you can see how the vanes perform as the height increases.
also amp draw
Interesting! Suggestions for another test: Measurement of Rpm, amperage, pressure .
Yes, agree with you. Vacuum capacity could also be a big variable (pump out of water, what intake hose length is the maximum for the pump to initiate flow and pressure).
Could be tested both horizontal and vertical (pump above water surface)
'Rpm, amperage, pressure .' Exactly, first thought. You need at least current so you can do current/liter/hour and find the best efficiency when just the fastest rate isn't the priority. Much more useful with just a little more data collected..
Exactly.
Say the grey turbine may not provide the flow rate compared to the other's. It may provide better efficiency at higher head pressures.
Centrifugal pumps are often measured in how much head pressure they can pump against and the flow rate at different pressures. I would bet the 6 blade would come out ahead on pressure.
For cleam liquid the close inlet is more eficient. I wold like to see for close
This was interesting. Changing the battery mid test could skew the results, I suggest a more reliable power supply. Changing the design of the inlet face and size could improve the ability of the impeller to direct the flow. The inlet face seems overly open.
The battery should be charged after every test, actually. Lithium batteries are 4.20 volts fresh off the charger, and drop to a nominal voltage of 3.7V soon after you start using them.
...that is, if he was to continue using a battery, and not a bench supply, as you suggested, of course.
I maybe can explain, why gray and pink is less efficient:
These pumps rely on centrifugal force, so they pump by pushing the water/air/whatever u pump to the outside. As soon as the blades are curved the motion of the pumped fluid/gas to the outside is disturbed. And these disturbances have the effect of lower efficiency (because every disturbance of the motion of the pumped liquid/gas is an energy loss)
Sorry if my eng isn't this flawless, i'm actually from germany ... :)
A static pressure test would help show why we have different blade designs.
i bet the grey one would excel at those
-Make a testing rig having constant head at suction...
- try experiment with both CW and CCW rotation of curved vanes.
- do another experiment to measure the static head at outlet of each impler.
I dont care about water pumps or 3d printing but i watched every second of this video, super interesting
If the gray impeller was connected to the spine, it would have worked better but not as efficient. ,There is actually too much volume of plastic in the design for it to be effective because it is reducing the void available for fluid to enter the chambers. As the old saying goes, it looks good on paper until you use it in the real world.
Please print these designs in their mirror images (opposite parity). The ones you printed are for counter clockwise spin and the outlet on your housing is for clockwise spin.
This is true
Incorrect. While somewhat counter intuitive, the vanes of an impeller in a pump are more efficient when they are swept 'backwards'. Consider what you're trying to do with a pump like this - you're trying to *throw* the fluid out and not scoop it in. Backward swept is correct, but something in his geometry was not compatible with his housing, motor speed, inlet/outlet. Pumps are surprisingly complex.
What would have been very interesting is to compare the head as well across all these pumps. It may be the case that the red/grey impellers were lower flow but were capable of a higher head.
Having a current readout on the motor during the test would have given us some relevant data on efficiency and how much 'work' the pump was doing as well.
I would also like to see the results of the impellers printed in this manner.
This is incorrect way of making a centrifugal pump. See it as an inverted wing of an airplane. When the blades rotate, a negative pressure is formed below the wing (pump blade), causing the liquid to be pulled from the centre towards the blade. Because the inner diameter is smaller than the outer diameter of the pump, the liquid will (with centrifugal force) accelerate outwards and hit the hull of the cochlea. The motion and pressure of the liquid will eventually spin out of the outlet with a lot of force.
when blades are curved rotation of the motor should be so that the blades bush water outwards. Your rotation is like pulling water from outside in.
No
@@angelgonzalez133 : Yes, basics of basic fluids dynamic. You: Go to the back of class!
@@bigcheese781 no go to class again
@@angelgonzalez133 : I understand you "No go class again", thats because you don't understand centrifugal pumps.
Stay in class folks, you'll learn pumps... =)
Very interesting your test, I never imagined that the green turbine would have good results, congratulations and thanks.
Leandro Wagner.
It's counterintuitive to look at, but I think it makes sense. The curved blades push the water from center to rim at close to a constant speed whereas the straight blades provide acceleration from center to rim. This creates a stronger negative pressure in the center of the turbine pulling more water in and obviously it pushes water out at a higher velocity, net head being higher than one with curved blades. This would be less important in reverse I believe.
Waterquw
Call Kant nob
I think that the curved blade is printed in the opposite direction, maybe your conclusions are wrong man!
Pink impeller looked and sounded like it was cavitating.
The grey one has low volume but high pressure, while the green and blue ones are a designs for low pressure at high volume!
The pink one is medium pressure at medium volume. With tangential wings you need more blades.
Hey, hello. Since is looks like you know a bit about pump impellers, would it be possible for you to say where i could read up on it?
@@FlamingToaster I have not found a good book yet - especially not in English (I'm German)
@@FlamingToaster read Up Viktor Schauberger He has the best Designs when it comes to Water. His philosophy was Understand Nature Copy Nature
@@Humbulla93 thanks, sounds interesting, but I'm more interested in engineering literature on machine design ;)
the curved blades reduce the output but increase the pressure
so if you put the canister on >2 meters high you should see more
This comment is correct. You will get higher pressure on the curved blades.
@@court2379 No, it's not. When stationary, increased output pressure also means increased output flow.
Mafioso Max Why would the two be connected? (They’re not)
@@tbdcreations5370 The values pressure and flow are already connected to each other, but the more pressure you want to produce the less flow you get
@Mafioso Max
there are characteristic curves for pumps ... Google ;-)
EumlOriginal You’re right, my mistake. They’re connected but they are tradeoffs, essentially a difference of mechanical advantage. Mafioso Max suggested they both increase together.
when looking at pump efficiency you will need to chart the power vs head over the whole range. one pump might perform better at a certain load point but worse at another.
you can look how it is done, Google pump curve.
Interesting build. And well done video. I want to give some background information about pumps, as i have designed and tested industrial pumps as an engineer.
In general there are three important variables you should measure while testing the pump. The first is the Flow. This is the volume divided by the time, which you essentially measured. The second is the Head of the pump. This is essentially a measurement for the pressure the pump provides. Measuring this can be done in an diy environment by connecting a hose to the discharge side of the pump and measuring the hight, which the pump can increase the water level in the hose to, while the hose is facing upwards vertically.
importantefficiency. The efficiency of the pump is defined as (hydraulic Power output)/(Mechanical Power input). For your purpose measuring the Input of electrical Power would be sufficient, as the electrical motor has roughly the same efficiency in all cases.
With these three simple measurements you could truly classify your impellers and rate them against each other.
This is important as an impeller with straight blades will give you a higher output in pressure, but will worsen your efficiency. That's the reason, why they used straight blades in the case of the car pump. Changing the blades from straight to curved on the small pump won't change the overall efficiency of the car, but will increase manufacturing costs quite a lot. It could be, that your 6 bladed curved impeller will give you a worse Flow and Head, but will do so at an higher efficiency. My guess regarding the bad performance of the red impeller is, that cut blades in the centre will drastically worsen the flow and will induce cavities, which lead to an overall lacking performance and can damage the pump in some cases.
It would be awesome to see how your pump and impellers perform overall, especially regarding efficiency.
Is seems that your rotor was spinning in the wrong direction. and for two turbines the direction plays a role
exactly. I agree
Did you measure wattage consumed? It would be interesting to track how the wattage and load on the motor changes in relation to the amount of water moved. There's a case to be made for a pump that moves less water while reducing load on the motor. Kinda like F1 racecar motors, going fast for just a few laps is one thing, commuting as a daily driver is a whole other use-case.
Still, NICE VIDEO, thanks!
This is a cool idea . But you should test the pressure each impeller makes because I think curved blades increase pressure and decrease volume also angled blades do that too I think
How about static pressure from the different designs? In other words how high of a water column they can hold up. Would be very interesting!
Agree
You should also test it with the Lilly impeller design which is also used for wind turbines it is based on Schauberger design
The results are ENTIRELY predictable, but they have nothing to do with "efficiency". Measuring the different pressure created by each rotor at several flow rates would give a clearer result. Monitoring the current draw of the motor at the same time would be even better. It will be found that the rear-angled rotors (all of them except the blue rotor) create less flow when there is restriction to flow _on the output,_ but they also draw less power then. If the motor and battery are strong enough, mirror-image versions of those 3 rotors will pump MORE than the blue rotor, AND put more load on the motor. All perfectly standard stuff from Pump Theory.
This is what makes 3D-Printing awesome.
Hi it would have been awesome if you also compared how those impellers performed on different hight
I feel the pink one would have the highest head
But the gray one is most powerful one because pumping 'torque' is higher than others. It is like a 'car tyre air pump'. It can be used if you use it for pump *well water* from the deep of 'well'.
Blue also wins because it is 100% reversible and structurally stronger than green.
Could you try pink but with mirrored blades, (so that they curve in the opposite direction)?
something about building something that just shoots out water and wasting water is so satisfying
Your blades are spinning in the wrong direction! They should be forcing water towards the nozzle. In addition if they rotate in the correct direction ( clockwise) the curved blades will need to face the opposite way. I think you will get much better results!
Agree
Amm, no, the blades are curved to push the water "out" as well as around, it's curved in exactly the right direction. Same with direction of spin.
I hope you charged the battery for each test.
And please do more tests for pressure as well.
The first and the last are the most efficient when it comes to pressurizing distance, these two models that I mentioned are used in centrifugal pumps.
A primeira e a última são as mais eficientes quando o assunto é distância de pressurização, esses dois modelos que eu citei, são usadas em bombas centrífugas.
the green one is kinda sus
As a mechanical engineer I congradulate you for your designs. Also I have an EXPLANATION on the reason that geay and pink pumppropellers did not work efficiently. This type of propelers are called "forward bladed" and are used for very high flow rates....but with one very crucial condition!!! . .... the pump suction inlet must have enough presure head intake. In other word,if the pump is not submerged enough deep in the water tank the phenomena of "flow detachment" taces plakes between the water and the blades. So the blades are spinining but (in simple words) the water can't follow them.
Sorry I'm writing with Google Translate. The video was good. Try the gray and red paddles if you have the time and desire to print the other way around. Keep it up
Cavitation on sharp edges are stronger, so the curved blades will last longer I think....
maybe it can do more pressure
This pump is not powerful enough to cavitate
@@Boz1211111 This pump is clearly cavitating with the pink impeller, this has nothing to do with power and everything to do with geometry. Cavitating in this pump is unlikely to damage the pump because of the low power but it will still drastically reduce pump efficiency.
@@MrAjam12 i thought that impeller is too big for this motor to spin it to such speed to cause cavitation, also, its curved impeller blade, so its even more weird
The curved ones were probably more efficient, but the other ones drew more power from the motor so they pumped faster. You have to test the power used by the motor to properly compare the efficiency
Interesting! Mmm, what will be the value for blue with 8 petals with 45 degrees?
But for completeness of the results it was necessary to test in the opposite direction - with water intake from the side and exit from the middle...
Nice video and good idea but I have some suggestions
1) in some cases there was air in the turbine and this can cause worse performance,
2) You have operated this manually by holding pump in hands wich also cluld make diferences in performace
3) You have not measured presure wich in pumps is very important, becouse performance in liters are strictly dependent from presure or differential hight of outtake - intake.
4) there will be nice if You will create a graph l/min in one axis and presure (hight) in other.
You should have recharged the battery after every test to get a fair result. Great test over all
Exactly what I was thinking!
Nice idea, but how about sealing the motor shaft? I assume there is a amount of water which slips sooner or later into the motors front bearing.
You’re likely getting cavitation on all of them but I didn’t have to see the test to know the grey and pink ones with those longer vanes would be slower than the blue and green. If you could seal your pump housing and provide an inlet and outlet what we do on flow benches testing fuel pumps is put a clear piece on the inlet side so you can see the cavitation also different RPMs have different flow rates with a cavitating pump
And really great video sorry forgot to be complementary!
It's right this way, first straight turbine blades convert more energy in speed, the others are more suitable for low speed and high pressure. Results are correct
Considering the way you're pumping water, wouldn't it be better to have a "scoop" on the water facing side of the blades with a long taper at the outlet side? This way you increase the amount of water pulled in as well as exit pressure. If you don't care about maximum pressure in the system then keeping the end between 90 and 45 degree will allow for the greatest amount of water throughput, also instead of a scoop it should be a vortex generator so water will resist less being pulled in.
Maybe is should be in reverse? Also I would be interested in the efficency and longevity
Are you sure it turns the right way? The two curved impellors work only well, turning in the right direction. (Bendes backhands compared to the rotation).
I assume the water displacement is related to the blade resistance during turning in the water. A "vertical wall" has the greatest resistance.
Each of the propeller corresponding to one Pressure-volume curve. You need to apply a certain pressure to testify which one is more efficient. Under low pressure, the first two may dominate, yet under high pressure, the third one wins.
This is bringing back nightmares. I have worked on BMWS for 30+ years and from 1991-1996 they used plastic impeller water pumps. There’s a service bulletin about it. Every customer with an effected car I urged them to change the pump before it exploded or quit spinning because it stripped the shaft from the impeller. All replacement water pumps had metal impellers. When they blew you really need to get every last piece so you can rebuild it to make sure you removed the debris. It was put together to make sure everything was out of the engine. If you didn’t you ran the risk of a piece clogging a coolant passage and blowing the engine. Running a engine hot is the #1 cause of engine death. 80+% I have put in was due to a overheating issue where the owner drove it until the engine stopped because it locked up. If you cut it off when it starts tow it and fix it you can save a lot of money.
What happens if you add wingtips to the blades? As you say some of the results are a surprise. To be really vigourous, you should also run the motor in reverse with the port reprinted in the other direction. Who knows you might discover something. For a more precise measurement, just stop the timer when the water overflows the neck of the container instead of reaching the line marked on the container. You can measure/weigh the total capacity of the bottle later. I think some of the blade designs are meant for air instead of water.
Hy. Great test. Can you explain what is the motor rotation direction please? Thank you.👏🙂
The wrong way...
@@jeanguion3223 XD
Redo the test with the 5L container at a height of 2 meters and check flow again, this will give you a good indication of pump pressure. Some designs of impeller are better for flow others for pressure.
You didn't insure that the battery voltage wasn't dropping which would slow the pump motor, I agree that a pressure comparison would also help in determining most efficient impeller. Nice work..
turbine designs not only for amount of water also for pressure, how high the water-pump pumps water.nice job bro.
Hello friend. Thanks for posting the video. Four impeller designs gave You different results in water flow but be sure that the pressure the pump could reach with each of them also differs. For the pink one, I gues the inlet was close to the bottom or the pump was taking air. For the pressure, I expect the highest pressure from the grey one.
I basically understand curved veins gives you a higher head pressure and lower flow rate and radial or straight veins gives you higher flow rate but lower head pressure if I recall my three or four semesters of fluid mechanics during mechanical engineering
In my opinion, due to the fact that the pipe is installed on the pump in a tangential way the straight blades were more effective in compressing water in a tangent direction. The concave blades create forces on the water towards the center of the pump and not in a direction tangent to it so less water is compressed into the pipe and from there into the bottle.
I think that, if you switch the terminals of the battery you will obtain extremely different results, but you should change with it the input and output of pipes, or/ you can print a new screws of same shape, but of different direction.
You have to look what is the efficiency of the pump so how many watts per liter is consumed. The other thing is that pumps have usually a flow / pressure curve here you do with the bucket at the same height as the tank but what if the bucket is one meter higher than the tank, will you have the same winner ?
The pump design is designed to reduce cavitation, mixing efficiency and durability. You have obtained good results in different models, but the durability is reduced because the formation of bubbles is greater.
I think the curved-blade designs would perform better if you performed the tests with a smaller inlet diameter. Especially with the pink impeller, it appeared that cavitation was evidence of flow reversal near the outer edges of the inlet. In other words, water enters along the center axis of the inlet, but some water exits the inlet farther from this axis.
The curved blade design suggests that the optimum blade tip angle (i.e. near the outer diameter of the volute/housing) is detrimental for the inlet flow. I am not an expert, so this is just my opinion.
excellent test and video .. 40 years ago I had a cooling issue on my four stroke powered R/C model helicopters . . I conducted similar tests to yours . only using air .. not water . The biggest breakthrough was when I faced the cooling fan backwards and sucked the air PAST the motors crankcase prior to directing the airflow over the upper finned half of the motor . There is a two way spin off .. bigger fan equals more airflow .. BUT bigger fans take a lot of power , an amazing amount of power to drive at the 7,500 rpm motor power delivery.
Heck yes. About time for a printing video. Haven't seen one in hours. Thanks!!
I really admire your patient on doing this, but actually all pumps need a Q-H curve to be properly described.. for example the gray one is surely able to give an higher pressure than the green/blue ones. And if the 5L bottle was some meters higher the winner would have been the grey or red✌🏻
pumps has another very important property next to the volumetric flow rate, that is the outlet pressure. You can't judge a pump without knowing all parameters. There are pumps with low flow rate but high pressure, and oppositely some of them can have very high flow rate but low pressure.
Good to see someone else uses a 0.8mm extruder, and an excellent video too btw.
All my small plastic submersible pumps have impellers same as the first one. However my larger pumps have impellers similar to the grey one. These are all commercially made bought online.
There are two main parameters to consider when dealing with pumps, the head, or H; and the flow rate, Q. Depending on the specific need or requirement. If you need to transfer liquid from a low to a very high elevation, pump designs provide the objective, with a high head but low flow rate. And, if you need a significant amount of flow, radial type pumps usually deliver a high flow rate but can only reach low to average head. Thus, depending on the specific requirement, the efficiency of pumps is measured.
I suggest measuring the head of each type/design of impeller to know the relationship between the head and the flow rate of each design.
Hope this helps, thanks.
Im thinking that the reason the red model was so ineficient is because youre getting a lot of cavitation or something along those lines.
You can hear and see in the underwater clip that the motor is ramping up and down periodically.
Im thinking that the shape of the blades are inducing a very low pressure zone behind them causing the issues.
its because the of the direction of the output. impellers should be scooping the fluid. without the scoop affect, it causes a negative pressure behind each of the impeller arms, where its going to pull fluid to fill the space behind each one, fluid can have variable friction so, its gonna surge with harmonics. if the impellers where facing the other direction to scoop as they should, then the negative pressure behind them is displaced by the scoop of the next blade, reducing friction of the fluid moving.. which in turn increases performance.
the gray its more eficient in electricity i bet ...less drag . measure the watts in the 5L
Joules, not Watts.
I think your pump housing may have an inefficient shape. If you look at some dust collector custom builds (Matthias Wandel and Marius Hornberger come to mind) you can see that they build the pump shape with an increasing gap between the impeller and the pump housing wall. It starts off very narrow near the outlet, and then grows bigger until it reaches the outlet, where it usually is the same size as the outlet. This would probably improve the efficiency of the red and grey impeller massively, since now you're purely relying on the blades kicking the water out, instead of building pressure inside the pump, and having that pressure push the water out.
Can You show the drawing of Involute of your pump casing,
Red ( backward curved veins ) will perform better than other three, if the involute casing design is just right .
Fact: turbines with bigger gaps between each notch is going to be or will be the fastest/ most effective in water due to to amount of water being pushed out at one time.
The pump is kind of close to the water. You might want to put a longer shaft on it with a disk attached to the shaft to stop water from coming up. Maybe have openings in the orange part above the protective disk...
That blue one looks like the type you see on snow blowers here in the US. Also were the fins pritprinted right direction and was it spinning right direction?
1:52 "water bump buddy"
great water bump test.
1st , 2st, 3st
Indian accent sux
i agree the pressure would be great. how many meters of tube can you press water in when placed vertically
Make a test comparing how high they can lift water (water column)
The video is 100% real even I tested the same thing after 3d printing the different turbines and I also made sure about the polarity of the motor . ONE INTERESTING THING I FOUND OUT WAS THAT THE RED TURBINE OR THE LEAST EFFECTIVE TURBINE WORKED WAY BETTER WHEN SPUN IN OPPOSITE SIDE.
Thank You for testing this out on your own and share the results. :)
Wow I’m amazed. I would expect the pink one to pump more water since the fins were curved but the blue and green did best, why??? 🧐🤨 very interesting results.
Efficiency about 15%. The key is diameter of impeller, blabe is 2st place. You need calc power = 1000*g*Q*h, then moment on rotor and more and more...
Although it had the least volume per unit time, most probably, the pink one must be the best to raise water lever. It could be the one with the highest head delivery. Try experimenting this for your next video.
Its because the of shape from impeller, curve and straight.
Curve shape make flow smooth, essential like sentrifugal work,
( low force than the straight blade, low vibration, long life working) able to handle back force pressure at the discharge pipe line that go vertical direction.
The straight blade, its like, suck alot, and pull with high force but not essence like sentrifugal.
(high consuming power cause of high force, and high vibration, better for small pump only.)
Cant handle the force back pressure at vertical pipe line its will be crack the impeller
The Pink and Grey impellors are typically used/optimized for involute pump housings, just FYI
Centrifugal pumps need a volute to create pressure, consider different casing designs. Your exit port is also not in an optimal position to produce pressure. Do a bit of research on centrifugal pumps and you will learn a lot. I would consider a few other types of pumps such as gear pumps which produce a lot more static pressure than a centrifugal pump. In this application, the flow rate is not as important as static pressure for a pressure washer.
Great, but Please also Test the Tesla turbine
I was expecting the green and blue one to pump better, because the grey one is more curved and have more blades which means its just like a spinning DVD and the pink have 4 curved blades which means the water will just hit the tip of the blade and didnt spin.
Disadvantages of blue and green is the motor will have to push heavier and if the motor is too strong and the blade material is weak, it could bend or break while grey will spin easily.
The pink is the worst, it makes the motor heavy while not even pumping enough water.
Good day, I think a simple test whereby the static head in meters is measured and converted to kPa or bar. Simply place the pumps on the ground and see how high above the ground level, in m, the pump discharges the liquid. You can use this pressure and flow rates to actually determine the efficiency as (Pout/Pin) as flow rate is not really a good measure of efficiency, it's just a measure of flow rate. But still a cool video, keep it up!
I think the curved blades sacrifice speed for pressure. It would be interesting to measure head pressure also and see which ones do better at that. When you apply back pressure, the straight blades will be fine with just carrying the same water around in circles. The curved blades squeeze the water outward and load the motor. That's why car water pumps use straight blades. They want lots of flow and a limit to the load they put on the motor. If you have to pump up a long hill, you probably need the curved blades.
Jjhhh
Did you recharge the battery between tests? The last one might have been slower because it was flat.
Can you test which one is better for Turbine use like water flowing into it to turn the motor
A good test, which takes more energy ?
Grey was bad because of the number of the fins were a lot, creating friction. A more powerful motor that has same speed but better torque, the result whould be better for grey pump.
Did you get all the air out of the pump before you turned it on? Because the air will decrease the efficiency of the pump
I made a gold dredge pump many years ago. same as the green one. i can add it had great pressure and volume, both needed in getting a gold dredge to work. Thanks for the video.
Have you tried 3 string instead of 4 string - and as "Jared Rohrbach Please print these designs in their mirror images (opposite parity). The ones you printed are for counter clockwise spin and the outlet on your housing is for clockwise spin."
You should also start looking at the casing and discharge pipe design. Also you are printing not very efficient impellers for pumping such fresh and clear water. If you want the most efficient design, try printing double shroud impeller.
Maybe need to check The 1200 L per hour will be warm / hot to motor, because the model / type of empeller
I think curved blades would perform better with a tight housing design i.e., less clearance between the blades and the wall of housing, although the flat blades might benefit from this as well.
Flat blades throw the water outward better where the curved ones energy is dissipated by allowing the water a smoother path around the blade.
I think the reason is simple, your motor didn't enough power for curve blades that have heavier load
It will be fair if you also calculate the motor RPM under load
Yesss
If you look closely during the pink colour test, water is escaping through the housing where you have 4 bolts securing the housing. Perhaps we need an oring seal in-between these surfaces?