Heartland Bighorn 5th Wheel Frame Broken
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- Опубліковано 12 жов 2020
- Due liekyl to neglect this Bighorne 5th Wheel was about to fall apart as the steel frame holding the overhang/pinbox to the main chassis had torn and most of the welds were cracked. Luckily, the owner was able to get it to the shop in almost one piece.
Join Chad as he does his best to get it back on the road safely. - Авто та транспорт
What an amazing video yo go back and watch today...what with all the recent insanity of frame failures. James was way ahead of the curve!
Lippert, the first word in RV heartaches.
I can agree with you completely.
To be fair to Lippert, they just make the frame according to what's specced to them. They don't know the load it is to carry.
I am always so impressed with your amazing restoration techniques! Thank you so much for sharing!
Thank you very much!
@@AZExpert You are very welcome!
Thank you for your videos, it really helps us as a new RV buyer to understand the long term commitment required in maintaining and caring for our unit. I look forward to more of your videos, especially if you want to discuss a Nexus Wraith.
Thanks for watching!
Come on give it a thumbs up and comment so his stats go up he deserves it.
OK!!
Thank you so much, comments and thumbs up do help.
Man I thought it was a goner.
I truly wish I had a guy like u near me!
To be able to leave me rig with a professional and not worry... what wouldn’t I pay for that service.
Excellent work guys. That’s amazing
👍😂😂😂
Thank you very much. I have to believe there are good shops everywhere in the country. I know I watched a youtuber take his Cedar Creek to an Amish Shop that put my abilities to shame I felt.
Great job Chad. You can definitely think outside of the box. I am highly impressed. I had a fifth wheel where the frame of the king pin TORE.
Thanks for watching!
Interesting. Thanks for the video James. Happy trails!
Thank you. I am more than happy with our goose neck toy hauler. I looked at 5th wheel and goose neck frames before I bought one.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks James. Friggen interesting to watch. I guess this was Chad’s project and you made a video of it. Thanks for this. And, oh by the way, great work Chad.
Yes this was all Chad's project, I was mostly a cheerleader!
Thanks for the video. I have a '13 Heartland Bighorn 39' that is showing a large exterior wall crack up front, most assuredly from the same issue.
what did u do about it
I have seen that type of damage on other rv's. Its called too thin of metal. I do not like 5th wheels today. Stop blaming it on maintenance. It was manufactured cheaply by specification by the company that ordered the frames. No one tested the metal used, no quality control. Lousy work.
I won't disagree with anything you said.
Light weight trailer frames smh. Farmers around me swear by the goose neck frames. The suspension are better too with real leaf springs and shocks.
The undersides of these travel trailers Looks Like they used bed frame angle iron to slap them together. Doesn't surprise me at all when welds break apart.
100% agree and I’ve seen this exact problem on $175,000.00 DRV MOBILE SUITS so it’s the material and sorry cheap craftsmanship. Everyone of the frames are made by Lippert and it’s nothing but cheap China steel.
Another awesome video...lots to be learned here....thank you.
Glad to hear it!
Thanks for the review
Happy Trails
Thanks, you too!
My first thought about seeing welding is so much of the material is flammable! You sure assumed a lot of liability doing that work. Hope you oritected yourself in writing, even then they could come after you.
Great job guys, Just proves two awesome RV mechanics, some cash and anything can be fixed. LOL
I have given up on a number of repairs, but thank you!!!
I wished you guys were in WI. I have a 2020 RhinoBox 5th wheel frame from a Forest River product (Lippert Frame) that there is some major issues going one. There is definitely a lot of flexing happening on the non-door side of the upper 5th wheel frame, much in the same spot as this one what happening. There is enough damage now that the slide-out, above curve down the front of the camper, has totally collapsed on the inside of the camper so that it's touching the floor and the bottom is sticking out about 2 to 3 inches on the exterior of the camper. Now in the upper right hand of the slide-out, there is an exterior crack in the fiberglass and on the inside of the wall, there is a crack in the wood paneling. On the exterior left side of the slide-out, the fiberglass seam has totally separated much like it did on the camper in this video. If you'd like to send Chad (your welder) up to near the Green Bay area in WI, I have a job for him! I am only kidding as I know it's too far for him to travel. After seeing this video, it gives me hope that the camper can be fixed. It's just going to be a matter of how soon can my local RV dealer can get the necessary parts to fix it and get a welder that is willing to give a blessing on that the trailer can tow after he is able to fix it. Chad did an awesome job. I would have like to seen the end result of a job like this to a camper that the owner wanted the sidewalls to look like new again.
Thanks for watching! :)
Nice work. Very informative.
Thank you!
I have seen a few of these also. It was a carnival and they were pulling their 5th wheel campers with semi tractors. The tractor suspensions were too stiff and that's what was damaging the front ends of the campers.
I believe it. I think every 5th wheel I've watched hook or unhook seems to have some movement on it.
@@AZExpert You can't make something like this too rigid. It has to flex some, but not too much, otherwise it could look like the one in the video.
That’s a story someone made up , although it’s true that they break also from pulling them with tractors that’s not the reason. The culprit is bad steel, imported steel, or something in the steel process I couldn’t tell you, but you would need a class action suit because there’s going to be thousands of these things and they’re gonna keep breaking after welded just in a different spot. Could be an inch away from the New weld or it could be above the axles or slides, but it’s gonna keep on happening.
If your Aluminum if & where poss run counter or other way to steel components it flexes more easily the other direction, east west vs north south or diagonally so. Plus bc prt way solid tub at every key connection pnt 6" or 1ft tub inside hole form fitting tub u get the greatest poss strength to weight & completely diff effect/reaction under driving loads again all about protecting master main beams u jump off/start the build, all to keep it light as hell.
Good job Chad!
Great job Chad!!
You are the MacGyver of the RV world
Thank you!!!
Many many years ago I worked with structure engineers designing conveyors. On thing I did learn that you can tell Chad about. The angle that was at 7:02 and welded in, would be much stronger if rotated 180 degrees to form a tube or 90 degrees to form a channel. It seems counter intuitive to turn 90 degrees, but it would be stronger. Respectfully, Kevin
I appreciate that, unfortunately we had to work with the clearance for the aluminum wall that goes over it and even that angle kept it from sitting flush.
AZ Expert Maybe next time. 😊👍
I would stay away for structural repair, to much liability ! If it ever comes apart going down the road it could come back and bite you .
That was our concern too. Hence the "speaking with the owner"
A friend had a Big Horn that did the same thing, I told him he had a problem, we saw things moving way too much and he kind of thought I was crazy until he went to unhook !!
it's crazy how common this seems to be
I think it will work for a wile. Looks stronger than it was. Repair was a good job
Awhile is the goal! ;)
That’s very impressive , you guys have an incredible knack of turning chicken 💩 into chicken salad . Nice job guys. Once again impressed .
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Nice repair Chad, Mine is a 42'Heartland 5'r Hopefully mine does not suffer the same! If it does? Ill refer back to this vid :)
James, thanks for the up!
I think you should be fine as long as you don't abuse it. Thanks!
looks like you all did a good job
Thanks for watching! :)
The seam he is talking about is an EWS, electrically welded seam from the steel producer. Thin steel tubing like shown will deteriorate over time due to flexing.
Thanks for watching! :)
Have you ever come across front frame problems on Carriage Cameo's? I have a 2011 Cameo 37 RESLS and notice the kingpin moves up a bit (1 inch or so) when I hitch up. Some movement (flex) is expected but what amount is a potential problem?
AZ expert - what do u think about the new truck campers from Artic foxes 🦊
1150 have a 2020
I do welding repair work for a friend that does RV repair. It is amazing at the repairs that need to be performed on some of these frames. A little more bracing from the frame manufacturers and a better welding program should be required.
Why? When they can sell all the junk that they can push out the door?
I agree! Thanks for watching! :)
As a long time RVer there is something to be said about a nice hotel !!!
I still like RVs lol
Cool work. Problem solving.
so far, so good!
Well this was eye opening! Let me guess, Lippert frame? If yes it’s not the first. Doesn’t appear to be enough rust to have caused this damage. But the weld split is concerning. Possible China steel.
Could this be an insurance claim??
I would guess Lippert too. This was not an insurance claim.
Can you tell me how much snow load can a heartland landmark fifth wheel take? I’m keeping it in a very snowy area of canada during the winter and wonder how strong the roof is?
I would contact the manufacturer. I would say keep the roof as clean as you can, they cannot handle much. also allowing ice to build up could cause leaks just like a residential home.
Is that a Lippert Frame?
Great Video and Repair!! Who do you think makes the top three 5th wheel frame's?
Up until recently I would have said Carriage, now most by "off the shelf" chassis so I couldn't say.
If he was driving on the Mexico roads, that's what broke all those welds, I'm sure the wood structure helps support the metal structure, when that all fell apart it didn't help.
Well done Chad!!! This looked like a lost cause intially.
I know I didn't want to do it! :)
Excellent work as always. Quick question for you.
I noticed on several of the roofing replacements that the sewer pipe area is flush level .Do you cut that on purpose to make the decking work faster? If so, what do you do to restore it back after the new deck is on?
Yes, we cut the pipes flush most of the time to aid in decking and roof installation. It's just 1 1/2" ABS so a union glues the cut section back on afterward. Thanks!
Is it even worth it to fix that thing I mean the walls of the laminating what’s the year on the coach? What was the cost to repair? And what’s the warranty on the repair
As an ASU alumni who's been to Rocky Point many times it looks like they may have towed it through the sand without deflating the tires which could cause an immense amount of stress on the frame...especially if they got stuck and needed one of the locals to pull them out. Those guys are not gentle on vehicles.
that's definitely I possibility
Partial closing of both ends of the frame memeber with the failed weld should prevent this failure from occurring on all other unit with this frame. The steel is as thin as possible to save weight. The open end allow too much flex, thus eventual failure. Its important not to fully enclose any box tubing to avoid trapping moisture and sweat. Welding of this nature is best left to a professional as not to damage or weaken the frame by overheating this thin steel.
The smallest frame failure must be fixed to avoid a cascade of failures as other welds and segments fail under added strain. The last thing you want is to see your towable literally ripping apart in your rear view mirror on the freeway. In such a situation the best case scenario is a flatbed trailer hauling your RV away. Worst case is injury or death due to an accident. Crossing ones fingers hoping to make it to the next destination is a gamble to far. Dont risk it. A compromised frame means the RV is not roadworthy. Thus it is illegal to travel. Besides the consequences are not worth the risk. An insurer may refuse to pay damages if the RV was known to not be roadworthy.
Did you give any feedback to Lippert? Maybe they got a bad batch of steel. Agreed on what others said about the thin gauge and the seam placed the wrong way.
No, they are not interested, they can't even troubleshoot their own leveling systems.
Just curious was he using a fifth wheel hitch or a goose neck conversion.
good question, I don't know if he had used one.
I have noticed most rv left unattended will be ruined in a short time. I have seen several motorhomes with low mileage and the undercarriage covered with rust. Should I walk away from buying or can they be restored?
If it's been sitting that long? walk away
Being a truck driver for almost 30 yrs I see people traveling down the road 70,75, even probably 80 miles an hour towing and RV. That poor RV is bouncing around like crazy! And people wonder, "why did my RV frame bend, or crack, or even break! Not saying that's the case here, just my observation! Also, I own an RV. Proper maintenance is important.. Yes, even inspecting & repairing & painting the frame is maintenance, especially in cold climates or living on the coast. #my2cents
Thanks for watching!
High quality stuff there😂
Engineering issue. Frame isn't designed to exceed the weights that are being used. You don't see semi trailer failing yet RV frames sure you see the fail all the time. This is the reason I bought a medium duty class A gas rig.
Nice fix. I know 1 yr old but I subscribe to your channel and I’m catching up. But I have done framing problems search in a Lotta chassis videos popped up. Think the name is Leeper chassis. What you just fixed and the fifth wheel box where it mounts to the chassis. One video showed if it wasn’t connected to the truck and then the trailer drops on to the back of the bed. When he showed the video the gooseneck separated from its chassis mount. The one welder that showed up pointed out what the problem is. They use the same thickness of steel throughout the whole chassis. And they put the supports in but the steel is too thin for the three stress points. He says yes you’re going to have movement but think of it this way. You take a thin piece of metal and flex it. It’s gonna break. Now take a thicker piece of steel and flex it. It’s gonna break. The question is when do you want it to break in three years or in 15 years. And like I’ve always said in my comments to your videos it always comes back to how long is the warranty. Hey keep using the cheaper steel it cost less and if it gets us past the warranty. It’s the customers problem. This one gentleman wrote to the transit company and their excuse was you had your trailer overloaded or you did some thing you weren’t supposed to do.
You have all weekend to binge! Thanks for watching! :)
In my humble opinion, I believe the design and materials used were the issues why the frame was fatigued and cracked. The dynamic pressures that the frame is being exposed to are just an accident waiting to happen with this design.
If they were designed after the gooseneck equipment trailers, this problem would go away.
I do not have an engineering degree, just hands-on experience with trailers and fabrication.
The frame manufacturer states the frame is engineered to handle the specs and if the frame fails, the specs were exceeded. It's nonsense, but when the first question asked about RVs is price, and the second is "are you sure? that's way too much." So customers are demanding cheap over durable.
@@AZExpert Yes, nonsense especially when everything is outfitted with living quarters. Unlike a gooseneck equipment trailer they can easily be overloaded and you don't see failures like you do on these RV fifth wheels.
I truly believe the culprit is dynamic impact. They could build one of these trailers like they have been and if it sat it's entire life on the showroom floor it be okay but the minute you start exposing these frames to dynamic impacts that's where the failures will start happening little by little until it gets to the stage like what's in your video or worse.
I understand what you're saying though about the consumer is a pennywise dollar foolish. But these potential buyers of these fifth wheel RVs if they would just see videos that you and others have on about the fifth wheel literally being torn apart from the rest of the trailer it would change their mind.
This frame failure was not an issue until Lippert went to a thin wall tubing. It's really crazy what the industry gets away with.
That looks pretty light duty before you started the gusseting
Thanks for watching! :)
Looks like it took an abnormally hard impact somewhere along the way. Maybe going over really rough off-road holes and big rocks.
It definitely could be for sure
Most likely a bad frame. Lot of stories about bad frames on YT
Amazing to me some of the frames on large rigs seem to be really thin wall, like 1/8, apparently mild steel. I guess makers are shooting for a price point, and low weight.
Did you say the year of this unit? I missed it.
I think it was a 2006
Chad: I’m gonna weld and gusset all theses areas.
Me: I just wanna see what the roof looks like?
That box should have been installed with the weld seem to the back not front. When the rig is picked up by the 5th wheel connection it puts a pull on the front of the box and compression on the back of the box.. If it was installed with the weld seem to the back it would not have split that way, the other welds may have failed but they probably failed from the seem opening up.
I'm sure there were many more broken welds we couldn't see. I feel like the majority failure was due to the sidewall to frame failure, but it seems like the frame is the one thing we should count on being engineered well.
The steal & aluminum will quickly tell u over 5-10yrs of use where u need extra tub or extra retangle square stock or gof forbid diagonal or gusset sheet sheet add to frame welds. If still seeing main weld members breaking u need 2nd counter tub drill thru or u r under sizing the members.
Original welds on that RV looks like bird poop.
Quality construction lol
Maybe the frame design didn't take into account the weakening caused by the slide out. It may be relying on the side wall.
That's why you need a air pin box an air bags on the truck, better for the frame.
Seam split in the box section,I think a similar thing happened years ago in a hotel three walkways collapsed killing quite a few people
That's scary to think of.
I hope he’s not using MIG. Not many people know that MIG cannot be used outside because of the moving air mass blows the shielding gas away from the weld puddle causing the weld to become porous.
I suppose that is true if it's windy, most welders will adjust to the environment by adjusting flow or blocking the wind. Thanks!
Nore do they hve round aluminum beam the painted so no rust, even if double or triple painted. Then 1 square beam for main strength & round beam to help control & absorb flex & stress but break early on when running thru frame prts or/ & along down the side under the rig. If u r getting bending & breaking on aluminum, u need more steel extra welds & gussets by u r fixing whole frame members. Not need to feed new round bar.
If we keep seeing square tub fail it is not holding up current use/loads. So square tubing must u cut/used not square by made 2 rectangles back to back equals 1 old square beam.
Not being a structural engineer, l'm of the opinion that the steel is undersized for the dynamic loads imposed.
If side by side by side long ways back to back is 1/16 or 1/8th of an inch lower to shares lesser vertical load by diff flex load the way u want it not all lined up.
How much would a repair like this cost?
I never asked Chad, I'd guess $1000-1500
I PURCHASED A 2008 HEARTLAND 3712 MODEL 41 FT. TOY HAULER TRIPLE AXLE. IN 2012 . IT HAS BEEN IN STORAGE UNTIL A YEAR AGO. IT IS SIMILAR TO THIS ONE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THREE AXLES, 10 X 12 GARAGE IN REAR, AND GOOSE NECK ADAPTER. QUESTIONS: A) MY JACKS DO NOT GO HIGH ENOUGH TO CLEAR MY TOOL BOX IN REAR OF MY FORD 350 8 FT. BED. THE BOX IS LOWER THAN TAIL GATE. I GENERALLY HAVE TO MANUALLY CRANK ALONG WITH ELECTRIC JACK. "IS THERE A SOLUTION ? B) IF I COULD RAISE THE GOOSENECK; I.E. ANDERSON ADAPTER THIS WOULD CORRECT THE ISSUE; HOWEVER, I HEAR THAT MAY PUT TENSION OF FRAME??? I ENJOY YOUR INSTRUCTIVE VIDEOS AND YOUR METHOD OF PRODUCTION. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. OH ONE MORE THING C) I PLAN TO INSTALL AN ALL ALUMINUM ROOF LIKE A COMMERCIAL TRAILER AND OR AIRSTREAMS. BY QUESTION IS SHOULD I REINSTALL MY THREE VENTS??? I WANT THIS TO BE A LIFE TIME ROOF. LIKE AN AIRSTREAM.
I'd be interested in seeing the metal roof when you're done.
Why are you yelling? (All caps)
We have a 2018 keystone hideout fifth wheel and the front beam ripped in two lippert frames are junk
That's crazy, what did the factory do?
👍
thanks!
Must have been WAY to much partying in that trailer while in Mexico!
impossible to party too much
@@AZExpert lol 👍
These camper companies just send the specks to the frame company which is probably Lippert Industry who makes frames and axels but Lippert does not engineer the frames the camper company does but if they would just double the thickness of all the steel they would not do this but the speck this stuff out. Did you see the piece of steel boxing it was so thin almost paper thin.
Im no structural engineer but this unit appears to me not to b suitable for regular towing in the future. I wd repair it, then tow it carefully to a permanent location, attach full hookups and skirt it, and use it as a permanent residence to be sold as is.
IT will be ok
👍🏽
If I were to guess it there way to much weight in trailer and big bump cracked 5th wheel section.
Man you guys do some good work on shit products I know you can't say it so I will lol but hea it keeps you in work
Big Horn - Big Problems ? Corrosion in a dry climate ? 😢
1st guess is that this is a frame made my Lippert (LCI).
that is my guess too
heartland BOUGHT the frame and built a rv on it .
heartland is 100% responsible.
I seen shitty failed welds causing the lightest possible cheapest steel they could get.
I agree!
184: when ever u do body work they drill holes every 3" then spot weld but in frame work they never bother equivalent.
Very simple problem, 3/16 material used instead of 1/4. This is a simple problem of companies trying to cheap out on the product make a few bucks.
They will always chose the cheaper material until punished for doing so.
Under engineered. Salt air. Over loaded with the water. I see any number of reasons to fail. Nice repair but hopefully he’s going to park it somewhere till he is done with it. If that happened up front what else is lurking elsewhere in the frame 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
I think Chad said it best "I don't want to do it!"
How many of these trailers have been way overloaded, towed at excessive speed, to fast down bad roads? Or all of the above? When i spent last winter in Quartzite I saw so many rigs obviously overloaded by what they unpacked, and some with Hitchs pulling trailers behind them with cars, trucks and boats in double configuration just because you can doesn't mean it's safe or you can do it! When I was working my way west through Tennessee I40 was worse than NYC with potholes but people towing campers were passing me at 20+ mph over the speed limit! And they blame the camper when the tires blow out or they cracked the frame. Yes some campers have QC issues that's another reason to take caution and not drive like it's a purpose built off-road vehicle.
Should be strong enough to tow a short distance to the junkyard. Lol.
lol
That’s good!!!
In any other transportation industry there would be a hue and cry by the gov't to have these things inspected for compliance with metallurgy, weld penetration and assembly standards. We're sharing the highways with these pieces of rolling junk. They routinely travel in the 60mph and above speeds. If these were commercial trailers .........
Why anyone would sink more cash into this thing... Stress fractures are gonna be found all throughout the frame Id imagine.
Looks like a good patch tho. Good job!
Even a bad condition 5th wheel will cost more than this repair.
That got a few broken welds . What a mess
I didn't even show half of them. It was crazy
@@AZExpert I bet. I’m sorry but I doubt I ever will buy anything post 2005. Anyway Im spoiled. Wanderlodge. Roll over , set up and drive . At least in one a case I’m aware of. That rig was totaled but it really did drive away to the shop.
RVs are very temporary vehicles, aren’t they?
I would think the liability would be to much on a job like this. If something breaks while going down the highway then lawyers will be involved and they'll find out who made the repairs. I wouldn't have touched it.
If I thought that way, No one would get any help. That's what insurance is for.
Use quarter inch Chanel steel with a deeper chanel
Probably I-beam is better than box-frame?
The main frame is I-beam!
The warranty says no off road driving or through construction so don’t drive out of the driveway 😂
Heartland is responsible since it is from their own specifications that Lippert or some other frame manufacturer built your 5th wheel trailer's frame...
That builder should've advised Heartland about the threshhold limitations of those actual specs and not just take the business without any professional recommendations against those inadequate specs...
But since they may not know, most of the time how their frames may be used, it is incumbant on the trailer mfr to not exceed the carry capacity of these designs...
I don't remember if it is this fifth wheel or a different one, but Lippert denied the claim stating that the owner welded a 2" receiver hitch to the "REAR" of the frame, and this somehow caused the vertical "H" frame members at the "FRONT" of the frame to snap in half.
DRV "Elite Suites" broken frame:
ua-cam.com/video/OQ0kbkyKzt4/v-deo.html
Chad high five
I'll let him know!
Fubar big time, the box beam would be stronger with the longer side vertical
Thanks for watching!
What does this cost a person?
I don't list my prices online
shoot me an message if you wouldn’t mind. I just complete something very similar and I am trying to make sure I get paid for my time but don’t gouge the customer.