I think that the fact a lot of people treat Idle and Incremental as the same genre has weakened both of them. I'm happy to see more and more games separating them.
Exactly. I like Incremental games. I don't like idlers. I really don't like incremental idlers. If part of the gameplay basically HAS to require you to leave the game running while you do nothing, then I don't like it. And yet this is the most common kind :/
Honestly, the worst offender is clicker games being treated as either idle or incremental games, because that's a genre in itself, and an idle game is not a clicker game.
well, according to google they are all the exact same thing :P An incremental game, also known as a clicker game, tap game or idle game, is a video game whose gameplay consists of the player performing simple actions such as clicking on the screen repeatedly.. But then again, i dont know as im not a fan of any of those games...
@@Cakepotatoclicker games does refer to incremental games, no? Not every incremental game is a clicker game, but most/all clicker games are incremental games. Not to be confused with puzzle and other games that use mouse clicks. Incremental and idle games generally involve a lot of clicking either way, granted the degree varies. Whether upgrading stuff, switching setups and what not. How idle you can be varies, whether offline time is a thing, either as a speed boost you can use later, or a % of income, or whether the game accumulates resources/automation without active input, and also how viable it is to play like that. Realm grinder, I haven't followed it in years, but there are literally undead builds, that rely on offline time, with automation it does also enable more idle gameplay.
Once read a D&D story that went from "Oops your summoning skeleton has no cap on summons" to "Planet collapsing into a Black Hole purely made of bones"
Just wanna say, I personally would love to read the absurdity of an incremental game book. While one option is following the hero/player, there's also the easy chance to have an outside perspective, like having to take a mortgage on your house for Incremental Paperclips, getting your house buried in leaves in that one lawn-cleaning incremental game, or striking it rich randomly for this one.
They kind of do exist, only not quite as obviously - Chinese cultivation-based novels typically go through cycles of the the protaganist starting from the bottom, getting a lucky chance, increasing their abilities, and progressing up to the next tier of existence, at which point they're the smallest fish in the pond again, rinse and repeat.
Well... there's a book series I remember reading, "The Idle System", which tries to do an Idle Game LitRPG style... set in a Wuxia/Xianxia world which somewhat justifies the constant inherent powercreep. Read the first four books in 2019 and don't recall anything special about it aside from the whole 'idle game' attempt at it. Seeing as four more books have released since then, don't remember why I didn't finish it... either I read what was available back then and missed new releases... or something about them got tedious/uninteresting and I just dropped it...
@@Baiswith I hate that the enemies get incrementally stronger too. "Like Im the strongest in these lands!" and there is 1 stronger person. And 10 chapters later every mob character has that kind of power.
When it comes to incremental (ish) lit rpgs that reminds me of a novel about a rock. A literal rock, cultivating and leveling up to become a bigger boulder. It is on royal road and is basically the closest to an incremental lit rpg that I can think of
one thing i think to note with you talking about how agency here for example went out the window. This time i think its a case of you dont have much agency in each progress "area" but you also stay in each area for a little bit then move on further. Going less for Intricate build building but more for Constantly new stuff
I think wander puts a little too much emphasis on agency in places where it isn't always needed. Sometimes games don't have to be complicated, they can just be a $3 game that's just upgrades in a linear path. I think he gets a bit caught up in his personal interests for a video game and forgets the joy of simplicity.
A somewhat similar phone game is "my museum" where you dig spots for dinosaurs fosils, which take 8-24 fosils, depending on the size of said dino. It is a lot more time consuming, since you have to wait for people to drop money and its slower the further you get. There are also a lot of different dig spots, just in this game. Not finished with the video yet, tho it seems to be a really cool game that i most likely will play. Thanks for showing so many unknown (new) games c:
I like that game a lot. And it's NOT slower, no need to wait. When you dig one fossil 100% (find all bones) you should have enough money to buy the next stuff. The real (useless) grind is reaching 200% on all fossils once you're done...
There was a free mobile game called My Dino Museum or something like that, which was basically the same mechanics. But you were searching for prehistoric bones and each dig site had some big specimen to build that would bring in a ton of money, and you got to expand the museum with new rooms and display cases, and you got to shift which dinos you put on display. Obviously if you found a complete skeleton it brought in more visitors and money. The only downside to it really was that it was gated a lot more by real time, since it was a mobile game that wanted you to spend money on it. But it was that bad for casuals.
Given how much you seem to like this you might like a old flash game called anti-idle. Its got a TON of incremental stuff with a bunch of different mini games that contribute to your cash flow
I think the "optimal" strategy is to focus heavily on roughly alternating areas, or one every three areas since they give loosely quadratic returns for how much time you spend on them but better areas have slightly better coefficients
So, uh... there ARE incremental novels like you're talking about. A lot of Dungeon Core stories are like that (right along with the 'dyson sphere in the basement for more goblins to work), others are general LitRPG progression fantasies (Randidly Ghosthound does this in a lot of ways, as does Azarinth Healer)- in fact, one of the key points for a lot of 'OP Protagonist" stories (Mecanimus is an author that does a lot of this) is that the protagonist finds some sort of 'broken' bootstrapping or exponential growth mechanism and takes full advantage of it.
I think the main way you'd differentiate an "incremental" litRPG from a cultivation one is to make the upgrades effect the world in somewhat arbitrary ways. So, to use an example from this video, the MC levels up and increases their ability to find gems, but that happens by simply adding WAY more gems to the ground, so you also have random farmers trying to dig a hole and suddenly the ground starts gouting up flawless diamonds and crystalized cosmic essence.
Everyone has intrusive thoughts. Some hardly even notice because their brain quickly filters them out, while others may fixate on them or have a strong need to act on them. ADHD seems to be one of those things that makes it difficult to filter out intrusive thoughts. Anxiety can be an issue too, because once you have some awful thought, you end up ruminating on it.
If you enjoyed this, it really reminds me of this game that I absolutely adore called Tap, Dig, My Museum. It's very similar where you go on expeditions to collect things for your museum, but it's all dinosaurs and you can customize your museum as you wish :)
I'm pretty sure "turn-based incremental" just about describes Roll, come to think of it. It is surprising how rarely I've seen that concept toyed with, I'd love to see where else that could go.
Kinda happy to hear you like LitRPG/GameLit. What are your favorite authors? Would you ever consider a sponsorship by one of them? Seems a natural pairing if you're actually a fan.
Incremental novel where there is at least one person who has already prestiged 100 times and keeps talking to the mc about something they won't know about for 100 pages
24:00 mud pit doesnt have 0/x on the bottom so you probably cannot find dream shard here (25:58 you got it) 4:43 For me its like lights out but youy can turn only to 1 state I know you will hate me but in theory it is better to start new prestige by clearing the location in the reverse order to maximize your money ghain (you get highest money relics for the longest) At least I know there will be a second episode, I know you too well
Am I the only one trying very hard not to scream at the screen about Mud Pit not having a dream shard? It literally tells you how many there are when you hover over
Watching you move on without collecting all of the relics in an area actually hurt to watch, as it actually hinders your progress somewhat. Yes, while it's not necessarily "needed" to progress, you gain a lot more value from that one area for having all the relics collected than you do only having "some" of the relics, which in turn allows you to unlock more upgrades faster.
It's going to irk me to no end that the relics are in a semi-random order due to the fact that you didn't get all of them from each location in one run
Do UA-camrs just not read? The location summaries literally told him there were no shards in the first location. Every other location had a 0/1 1/1 0/2 shards collected underneath artifacts collected. But he kept saying ther has to be one in the one location that doesn't have that info.
While the mud pit has no dream shard, it should probably show a 0/0 at the bottom to indicate that. The game definitely needs to tone down and speed up the menu transitions. There should be an instant-restart button, and it should be near-instant to restart or get back to the museum (1 second, 1 click, instead of 5-10 seconds and 3-6 clicks). Rather than showing each thing you got separately, it'd probably be better to show all of that on a single dialog with "restart" and "museum" buttons. Asking you to pay to enter an area is an unnecessary dialog. The price can be shown below each area and clicking on it instantly takes you there. I wouldn't be surprised if the time you spent waiting for menus to change and things to load took up most of the time in this video.
There is a manwha(comic) that is called "The gamer" and finds out he can level up and that there is more to the world and gets incrementaly stronger over the series. you might like it.
Classic case of streamer/youtuber blindness of Wander not realizing the game literally tells you to your face whether there's shards to be obtained in a region.
Wander, you've been saying a lot of games need to have A and B options, I think you're just craving the gacha like option of gambling to creating a build through luck in rogue like/lite bullet heavens type games. I don't mind those videos... hint hint
if you need ideas about how different game stiles would work in game-lit/litrpg in one of the Play to Live series book it goes into basic description on different games to get "stuck" in f.x. Heroes of m&m, diablo, tank battle sims. I actually think it might be worth listening to an incremental story or a squad based one, like Blizzards Vikings, but its not actually 3 guys but like playing the game its one guy that has to switch
I think besides cookie clicker the one incremental game that has the most width and systems would be leaf blower simulator altho it does take like 3 real life years to get to endgame (a lot less if you know what you are doing or scour the wiki)
Hm... I remember similar game either on mobile or in Flash. And that one have multiple diggable layers (but worse meta progression). Don't remember title though.
I would like to refer you to a book called "the idle system" by: pegas it is a wonderful series about the book you want to write, hoping it helps with inspiration
![Incremental Wizard Simulator - Tower Wizard [Demo]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sDJTgfRJWBY/mqdefault.jpg)
I think that the fact a lot of people treat Idle and Incremental as the same genre has weakened both of them. I'm happy to see more and more games separating them.
Exactly. I like Incremental games. I don't like idlers. I really don't like incremental idlers. If part of the gameplay basically HAS to require you to leave the game running while you do nothing, then I don't like it.
And yet this is the most common kind :/
@@That-_-Guy you agree, yet choose to be rude. Man you must be an awesome guy/gal
Honestly, the worst offender is clicker games being treated as either idle or incremental games, because that's a genre in itself, and an idle game is not a clicker game.
well, according to google they are all the exact same thing :P
An incremental game, also known as a clicker game, tap game or idle game, is a video game whose gameplay consists of the player performing simple actions such as clicking on the screen repeatedly..
But then again, i dont know as im not a fan of any of those games...
@@Cakepotatoclicker games does refer to incremental games, no? Not every incremental game is a clicker game, but most/all clicker games are incremental games. Not to be confused with puzzle and other games that use mouse clicks.
Incremental and idle games generally involve a lot of clicking either way, granted the degree varies. Whether upgrading stuff, switching setups and what not. How idle you can be varies, whether offline time is a thing, either as a speed boost you can use later, or a % of income, or whether the game accumulates resources/automation without active input, and also how viable it is to play like that.
Realm grinder, I haven't followed it in years, but there are literally undead builds, that rely on offline time, with automation it does also enable more idle gameplay.
I was genuinely convinced that it was about to end, and then I saw the "Locked until you reach the Astral Plane" and I lost it, what an insane twist
The number of times Wander goes "Oh no" is a sign that this game is pretty good
Once read a D&D story that went from "Oops your summoning skeleton has no cap on summons" to "Planet collapsing into a Black Hole purely made of bones"
Where can i read that
Just wanna say, I personally would love to read the absurdity of an incremental game book. While one option is following the hero/player, there's also the easy chance to have an outside perspective, like having to take a mortgage on your house for Incremental Paperclips, getting your house buried in leaves in that one lawn-cleaning incremental game, or striking it rich randomly for this one.
They kind of do exist, only not quite as obviously - Chinese cultivation-based novels typically go through cycles of the the protaganist starting from the bottom, getting a lucky chance, increasing their abilities, and progressing up to the next tier of existence, at which point they're the smallest fish in the pond again, rinse and repeat.
Well... there's a book series I remember reading, "The Idle System", which tries to do an Idle Game LitRPG style... set in a Wuxia/Xianxia world which somewhat justifies the constant inherent powercreep.
Read the first four books in 2019 and don't recall anything special about it aside from the whole 'idle game' attempt at it.
Seeing as four more books have released since then, don't remember why I didn't finish it... either I read what was available back then and missed new releases... or something about them got tedious/uninteresting and I just dropped it...
@@Baiswith I hate that the enemies get incrementally stronger too. "Like Im the strongest in these lands!" and there is 1 stronger person. And 10 chapters later every mob character has that kind of power.
Imagine you wake up and there is that one neighbour that starts producing antimatter
When it comes to incremental (ish) lit rpgs that reminds me of a novel about a rock. A literal rock, cultivating and leveling up to become a bigger boulder. It is on royal road and is basically the closest to an incremental lit rpg that I can think of
Just finished playing the game. Great suggestion. Also: you were like 10-20 minutes from finishing the whole game
one thing i think to note with you talking about how agency here for example went out the window.
This time i think its a case of you dont have much agency in each progress "area" but you also stay in each area for a little bit then move on further.
Going less for Intricate build building but more for Constantly new stuff
I think wander puts a little too much emphasis on agency in places where it isn't always needed. Sometimes games don't have to be complicated, they can just be a $3 game that's just upgrades in a linear path.
I think he gets a bit caught up in his personal interests for a video game and forgets the joy of simplicity.
I realize that yes, player agency is a core tenet of his channel, but as a viewer it quickly becomes tedious to hear.
A somewhat similar phone game is "my museum" where you dig spots for dinosaurs fosils, which take 8-24 fosils, depending on the size of said dino. It is a lot more time consuming, since you have to wait for people to drop money and its slower the further you get. There are also a lot of different dig spots, just in this game.
Not finished with the video yet, tho it seems to be a really cool game that i most likely will play. Thanks for showing so many unknown (new) games c:
Love that game!
I like that game a lot. And it's NOT slower, no need to wait.
When you dig one fossil 100% (find all bones) you should have enough money to buy the next stuff.
The real (useless) grind is reaching 200% on all fossils once you're done...
always a reliable source for new incremental gems, love your vibe
Re: Incremental Novels, "The Knight Only Lives Today" and later parts of "The Gamer" kinda fit the bill. Maybe also "The Top Dungeon Farmer"?
God, I haven't read The Gamer in so long. I should restart it. Thanks for bringing it back into my brain!
plz finish the game it doesnt look like it would take more than an hour tops
I would love to see a series on this Wander!
An incremental book is basically just any cultivation manhwa
There was a free mobile game called My Dino Museum or something like that, which was basically the same mechanics. But you were searching for prehistoric bones and each dig site had some big specimen to build that would bring in a ton of money, and you got to expand the museum with new rooms and display cases, and you got to shift which dinos you put on display. Obviously if you found a complete skeleton it brought in more visitors and money.
The only downside to it really was that it was gated a lot more by real time, since it was a mobile game that wanted you to spend money on it. But it was that bad for casuals.
Thanks for making this video. In my older age I love incremental games.
Given how much you seem to like this you might like a old flash game called anti-idle. Its got a TON of incremental stuff with a bunch of different mini games that contribute to your cash flow
I think the "optimal" strategy is to focus heavily on roughly alternating areas, or one every three areas since they give loosely quadratic returns for how much time you spend on them but better areas have slightly better coefficients
i mean to be fair past the first run money is no longer the concern
and even first run get 1 million then just get out
instant purchase(and i don't buy a lot of games, just play the ones i like a lot), thanks for the video
So, uh... there ARE incremental novels like you're talking about. A lot of Dungeon Core stories are like that (right along with the 'dyson sphere in the basement for more goblins to work), others are general LitRPG progression fantasies (Randidly Ghosthound does this in a lot of ways, as does Azarinth Healer)- in fact, one of the key points for a lot of 'OP Protagonist" stories (Mecanimus is an author that does a lot of this) is that the protagonist finds some sort of 'broken' bootstrapping or exponential growth mechanism and takes full advantage of it.
"The Knight Only Lives Today" could also fit the bill in a way, and/or "The Gamer" and "The Top Dungeon Farmer"?
and that's the fourth talent tree incremental game i know of
Had to stop the video after 3 minutes to buy and play the game. Thank you for putting it on my radar!
There is a series where the MC has an "idle system" it's a cultivation type so idk if that's your deal
I think the main way you'd differentiate an "incremental" litRPG from a cultivation one is to make the upgrades effect the world in somewhat arbitrary ways. So, to use an example from this video, the MC levels up and increases their ability to find gems, but that happens by simply adding WAY more gems to the ground, so you also have random farmers trying to dig a hole and suddenly the ground starts gouting up flawless diamonds and crystalized cosmic essence.
55:00 after you picked that Talent, the first location now has a shard as well
Was gonna call it out too
Everyone has intrusive thoughts. Some hardly even notice because their brain quickly filters them out, while others may fixate on them or have a strong need to act on them. ADHD seems to be one of those things that makes it difficult to filter out intrusive thoughts. Anxiety can be an issue too, because once you have some awful thought, you end up ruminating on it.
Would love another video on this game even if there’s not much left to this game
If you enjoyed this, it really reminds me of this game that I absolutely adore called Tap, Dig, My Museum. It's very similar where you go on expeditions to collect things for your museum, but it's all dinosaurs and you can customize your museum as you wish :)
I'm pretty sure "turn-based incremental" just about describes Roll, come to think of it. It is surprising how rarely I've seen that concept toyed with, I'd love to see where else that could go.
The steam chart for this game jumped as soon as this video came out. (I also am buying it after watching this video)
I would love to hear your thoughts/video essay on incremental game mechanics and such.
Kinda happy to hear you like LitRPG/GameLit. What are your favorite authors? Would you ever consider a sponsorship by one of them? Seems a natural pairing if you're actually a fan.
Wander's museum just casually fit the entire human population inside XD
Looks chill, I will probably buy and play this myself on the weekend :)
A shame this isn't live, could have told you each level tells you how many dream shards are available
Incremental novel where there is at least one person who has already prestiged 100 times and keeps talking to the mc about something they won't know about for 100 pages
Apparently this is the only video with this game in it. I looked for more of this and I'm just getting Japanese and gray still plays
I would absolutely love seeing more if there is more
24:00 mud pit doesnt have 0/x on the bottom so you probably cannot find dream shard here (25:58 you got it)
4:43 For me its like lights out but youy can turn only to 1 state
I know you will hate me but in theory it is better to start new prestige by clearing the location in the reverse order to maximize your money ghain (you get highest money relics for the longest)
At least I know there will be a second episode, I know you too well
I watched some guy be sub optimal for an hour at midnight, ironically enough
this is really enjoyable to watch
Would love to see another video on this
Cool game!
Not sure what i'll do, buy it, and finish myself, or wait for another wideo
If you want an incremental novel it's called heretical fishing
Did someone say incremental? nice of you to put incremental game when I'm sick tyvm
Reminds me of the Pokémon Diamond and Pearl digging mini game in the underground
I would love to see the rest of this.
Am I the only one trying very hard not to scream at the screen about Mud Pit not having a dream shard? It literally tells you how many there are when you hover over
Oh please play more of this!
I want the second part so much!!
Please make another video this game looks amazing
Watching you move on without collecting all of the relics in an area actually hurt to watch, as it actually hinders your progress somewhat. Yes, while it's not necessarily "needed" to progress, you gain a lot more value from that one area for having all the relics collected than you do only having "some" of the relics, which in turn allows you to unlock more upgrades faster.
These sort of games are my far my favourite. Reminding me of a simpler time in gaming. Could have played this on the amiga.
i liked what i saw so i bought the game and it took me exactly 1 hour and 17 minutes to beat it.
It's going to irk me to no end that the relics are in a semi-random order due to the fact that you didn't get all of them from each location in one run
looks also like the digging mini game in Danganronpa V3. very fun
we need an episode 2
LET'S GOOOO!!! Come on do i can't be here without knowing the ending.
Make that book! LitRPG Incremental, id def listen to it
Do UA-camrs just not read? The location summaries literally told him there were no shards in the first location. Every other location had a 0/1 1/1 0/2 shards collected underneath artifacts collected. But he kept saying ther has to be one in the one location that doesn't have that info.
26:01 he finally figures it out
While the mud pit has no dream shard, it should probably show a 0/0 at the bottom to indicate that.
The game definitely needs to tone down and speed up the menu transitions. There should be an instant-restart button, and it should be near-instant to restart or get back to the museum (1 second, 1 click, instead of 5-10 seconds and 3-6 clicks). Rather than showing each thing you got separately, it'd probably be better to show all of that on a single dialog with "restart" and "museum" buttons. Asking you to pay to enter an area is an unnecessary dialog. The price can be shown below each area and clicking on it instantly takes you there.
I wouldn't be surprised if the time you spent waiting for menus to change and things to load took up most of the time in this video.
the "30%" is stated to only be for that locations relics 2:07 - 2:10
I honestly wouldn’t mind an incremental litrpg.
There is a manwha(comic) that is called "The gamer" and finds out he can level up and that there is more to the world and gets incrementaly stronger over the series. you might like it.
Classic case of streamer/youtuber blindness of Wander not realizing the game literally tells you to your face whether there's shards to be obtained in a region.
Omg I would love to read a litrpg by u! Been pretty into them recently
Wander, you've been saying a lot of games need to have A and B options, I think you're just craving the gacha like option of gambling to creating a build through luck in rogue like/lite bullet heavens type games. I don't mind those videos... hint hint
if you need ideas about how different game stiles would work in game-lit/litrpg in one of the Play to Live series book it goes into basic description on different games to get "stuck" in f.x. Heroes of m&m, diablo, tank battle sims. I actually think it might be worth listening to an incremental story or a squad based one, like Blizzards Vikings, but its not actually 3 guys but like playing the game its one guy that has to switch
I've read an incremental book, but the author quickly lost control of what he was writing and gave up
1:07:15 I'm writing one inspired by incremental games. It's going pretty well!
i know there is a flash game with builds that you have to pick and choose because you dont have enough money on armor games
Please finish it. I dont think it takes longer than half an hour to finish
~8:25 i can't tell if that's a sad story or a weirdly happy one
Honestly, the "It just popped into my head" didn't really help after that snake statement...
it took me about 3 seconds of watching the video to decide to buy this game 😂
I think besides cookie clicker the one incremental game that has the most width and systems would be leaf blower simulator altho it does take like 3 real life years to get to endgame (a lot less if you know what you are doing or scour the wiki)
i don't think anyone realize the game came out today
the end is not the end is not the end is not the end is not the end is not the end is not the end is not the end is not the end
Have you tried universal paperclips btw? You might like it.
But wait, there's more! :P
gods hair 😂
I Crave The Snake.
Hm... I remember similar game either on mobile or in Flash. And that one have multiple diggable layers (but worse meta progression). Don't remember title though.
pleaseee finish the game on youtube!!!
When that next Video Wander??!
How do you find new incremental games?
I need another video ...
Too many windows to click. The reward stuff could simply be a log/summary. Entering should not ask for cost confirmation.
It’s kinda Anoying me how he doesn’t go get the other artifacts to get more money 40:21
this looks... a whoel lot liek disco zoo
this game is inspired by a mobil game
yeah no you have once again made me buy a game
WOOOOO
More
I shit and giggle
moooooooree
Dev should make it a mobile game with ads, I and a ton of other people would play it for sure.
Ahhh
I would like to refer you to a book called "the idle system" by: pegas it is a wonderful series about the book you want to write, hoping it helps with inspiration