I love how says that standard tuning is an orchestra. Yet when he plays in Martin Carthy tuning it sounds like he is playing more tha one instrument. Absolutely bloody marvelous.
Please anyone who has anything by Martin, post it! The man is a genius (and a real Gentleman). I've seen him several times and chatted to him - his modesty is his downfall in a way - but it's to our benefit, as we haven't lost him to th US like Richard Thompson.
Actually, it's a "000-18MC Martin Carthy Signature Edition". If it looks like an OM it's because it's based on the old 000-18 that he played since the mid-60s and which had undergone several modifications/repairs. This one has a small OM-style pickguard (the old one was even smaller), old-style rosette, and a zero fret but it doesn't have the two-piece bridge that had been fitted to the old model. For the full spec go to the Martin website and search for 000-18MC
Thrilled you are up and about and now making Videos. I loved your show in Seattle, lo these 25 years ago, where I bought one of each of the CD's you brought. If that had been vinyl, they would have worn out! -- Big Fan Dan
@hallobaaaby You've hit the nail on the head there. He duly bigs up standard tuning here as it is indeed the ultimately versatile tuning - but there is a lot you can do with open tunings, DADGAD, Carthy's tuning, etc. that you can't in standard. After all an open string has a different timbre than a fingered note and when you have to move your hand that fingered note stops.
@ruben1kord Invented isn't a good word with guitar tunings - I thought I'd 'invented' a tuning once and then discovered that somebody 'invented' it in the 70's. However Davey Graham was the first person to even have the concept of tuning the acoustic guitar into an adapted version of a sitar tuning and it opened up countless possibilities to thousands of other guitarists. So yes - he did 'popularise' it too!
@fingal42 (cont)...because Hendrix, also like Martin, i notice, would typically rarely play more than 4 notes at once which sounds fresh and light while allowing mobility/fluidity and execution of figures where one note dances around while the rest still resonate...fascinating stuff!
@fingalYes i feel it the same way: percussive and with whole lot of harmony voicings. What he does often is putting a bass line or chords on the rhythmic grid of the melody phrase while purposefully skipping some notes leaving them voice-only,others playing inbetween accented notes like this creating this percussive off-beat swingy feel to the music.What i like is that, while using who range of harmonix,he doesn't exagerate with heavy poliphony,like Hendrix.What miss r bluesey curves:)
@hallobaaaby It's interesting that Martin derived at least part of his technique from listening to Big Bill Broonzy's finger picking style, so the African influence is implicit even there. Martin's style is quite percussive - but it's melodic at the same time. I see it as multifaceted in fact. It interests me that what is called 'English guitar style' is nothing of the kind when you really boil it down. Davy Graham invented DADGAD after a spell of foreign travel...
I must admit, that when I first discovered dadgag it was a total revelation. All of a sudden, I had a tuning which enabled me to express myself. I think that some of the English standard-tuning folk can be a bit "stiff upper lip" and sometimes leads toward the classical music more. Dadgad indeed has its roots in Africa, and similar tuning are used in Breton music too. I find that best way to play in dadgad is to pick a "drone" note, and keep it going, or use it to add atmosphere along with the rest of the rhythm, but never finger more than a couple of strings for the chord. A fingerstyle technique works best.The tuning is already a chord, so it is very easy to get a good sound. Just my opinion
@fingal42 Oh no supperior please we're all friends :D Funny thing with the cora is that despite many strings they typically play a rhythmic figure that repeats for a given section of a song, rather than melody phrase -kind of like if you check guit. of Seasick Steve on 'Cut my Wings' song. so to play this(wish i could show what i mean)you make the thumb & index fingers in this shape(what Carthy insinuated) & produce these rhythmic figures--these r the african/oldtimer style ones.Cheers
"but it's to our benefit, as we haven't lost him to th US like Richard Thompson." That's an unfair statement. R. Thompson just happens to resonate, rightly or wrongly with a large group. This doesn't make him any better or worse. Carthy is a genius and will remain a genius whether he's huge in the U.S. or not. Besides, without American folk/blues music, you'd have neither Thompson nor Carthy. It'd be something different altogether. Point is: ditch the Nationalism in music.
Whilst it is true that the fretted strings on a sitar are usually tuned to D, A and G, it is also true that DADGAD is a minor variation on Vestapol (DADF#AD) and cross note (DADFAD) tunings used by many of the pre-war rural black American blues players. It would be quite a stretch to imagine that Graham hadn't heard the work of these players also.
The banjo and West African gourd instruments are like humans and chimpanzees, they share a common ancestor but have evolved differently. The modern banjo is a creole instrument which has influences of both Africa and Europe
@slowuncle; I see - thanks for that. Ethnomusicology isn't my strong point. Do you know of any good books on the subject? Trying to be objective, I'm not sure it matters much what family an instrument is in; though I recently saw a gourd banjo on UA-cam (played by Mike Seeger) which put me straight on the subject. Anyway - I love any stringed instrument, irrespective of its family tree.
Back in 1975 Davey Graham was interviewed by a British guitar magazine and mentioned he had the idea of bringing something approximating sitar tuning to the guitar-i.e. the close intervals of the 2nd and 3rd strings.DADGAD was what he came up with.in a later issue of the same magazine Martin Carthy backed up this claim and confirmed this. Before Davey Graham your average folkie just strummed in 1st position. Or to put it another way-if Davey Graham didn't originate DADGAD,who did?
@fingal42 The banjo is INTIMATELY related to the african cora the way it is played in the mountain variation this gentleman talks about. This is not the bluegrass style. It what they call in parts of US i've played 'mountain or 'oldtimers. It REALLY does use very very African rhythm patterns/loops/shapes. on the other hand i play renaissance lute and i'm telling you, there is strictly nothing in its logic, structure or way of playing in common with the banjo which is on skin like cora.
You are completely correct that "mountain/old time" banjo is not bluegrass. Carthy mentions "mountain minor" - a common tuning for this old-style playing a la Dock Boggs for example is "sawmill" GDGCD on a 5 string banjo. Dock Boggs acknoledged the influence of black players that he saw.
@hallobaaaby - I can well believe the banjo has African roots; it's an interesting subject. Having heard a couple of cora players, those instruments have a hell of a lot of strings! The banjo was the first stringed instrument I heard as my dad used to play one (sadly no longer)... I bow to your superior knowledge on this. ;)
I don’t follow his explanation. How do you arrive at DADEAE by tuning DADGAD down a 4th and doing some adjustments?! Is there some genre specific lingo here, that I’m not familiar with? Tuning DADGAD down a 4th would result in AEADEA, which is nowhere near DADEAE. Not to mention that with regular gauge strings tuning down a 4th would make intonation unmanageable, etc..
He said something like wanted to work with the middle 4 string, but ended up on the 1st 2 strings. The 1st 2 strings in DADGAD are A and D. He dropped those 2 string by a 4th. So in effect those strings became 'middle' strings by virtue of being tuned lower. That is my guess.
Complete nonsense! The banjo - like the guitar - is in the lute family of musical instruments, and its repertoire includes Classical music. A well made banjo has a superb ringing tone, but less sustain than a guitar. It just needs a different approach.
classical music was played on banjo much later by americans during the "elevation" (i say that without believing it is an elevation) period; it was not originally for the banjo.
I love how says that standard tuning is an orchestra. Yet when he plays in Martin Carthy tuning it sounds like he is playing more tha one instrument. Absolutely bloody marvelous.
For Godssake Martin...tune the bloody thing!!!
I love how says that standard tuning is an orchestra. Yet when he plays in Martin Carthy tuning it sounds like he is playing more tha one instrument. Absolutely bloody marvelous.
Please anyone who has anything by Martin, post it! The man is a genius (and a real Gentleman). I've seen him several times and chatted to him - his modesty is his downfall in a way - but it's to our benefit, as we haven't lost him to th US like Richard Thompson.
Actually, it's a "000-18MC Martin Carthy Signature Edition". If it looks like an OM it's because it's based on the old 000-18 that he played since the mid-60s and which had undergone several modifications/repairs. This one has a small OM-style pickguard (the old one was even smaller), old-style rosette, and a zero fret but it doesn't have the two-piece bridge that had been fitted to the old model.
For the full spec go to the Martin website and search for 000-18MC
Thrilled you are up and about and now making Videos. I loved your show in Seattle, lo these 25 years ago, where I bought one of each of the CD's you brought. If that had been vinyl, they would have worn out! -- Big Fan Dan
Wonderful!!!!...Thank you
@hallobaaaby You've hit the nail on the head there. He duly bigs up standard tuning here as it is indeed the ultimately versatile tuning - but there is a lot you can do with open tunings, DADGAD, Carthy's tuning, etc. that you can't in standard. After all an open string has a different timbre than a fingered note and when you have to move your hand that fingered note stops.
@ruben1kord Invented isn't a good word with guitar tunings - I thought I'd 'invented' a tuning once and then discovered that somebody 'invented' it in the 70's. However Davey Graham was the first person to even have the concept of tuning the acoustic guitar into an adapted version of a sitar tuning and it opened up countless possibilities to thousands of other guitarists. So yes - he did 'popularise' it too!
@fingal42 (cont)...because Hendrix, also like Martin, i notice, would typically rarely play more than 4 notes at once which sounds fresh and light while allowing mobility/fluidity and execution of figures where one note dances around while the rest still resonate...fascinating stuff!
@fingalYes i feel it the same way: percussive and with whole lot of harmony voicings. What he does often is putting a bass line or chords on the rhythmic grid of the melody phrase while purposefully skipping some notes leaving them voice-only,others playing inbetween accented notes like this creating this percussive off-beat swingy feel to the music.What i like is that, while using who range of harmonix,he doesn't exagerate with heavy poliphony,like Hendrix.What miss r bluesey curves:)
Yes, but the video was posted in response to a video where a Martin was used.
@hallobaaaby It's interesting that Martin derived at least part of his technique from listening to Big Bill Broonzy's finger picking style, so the African influence is implicit even there. Martin's style is quite percussive - but it's melodic at the same time. I see it as multifaceted in fact. It interests me that what is called 'English guitar style' is nothing of the kind when you really boil it down. Davy Graham invented DADGAD after a spell of foreign travel...
I must admit, that when I first discovered dadgag it was a total revelation.
All of a sudden, I had a tuning which enabled me to express myself.
I think that some of the English standard-tuning folk can be a bit "stiff upper lip"
and sometimes leads toward the classical music more.
Dadgad indeed has its roots in Africa, and similar tuning are used in Breton music too.
I find that best way to play in dadgad is to pick a "drone" note, and keep it going, or use it to add atmosphere along with the rest of the rhythm, but never finger more than a couple of strings for the chord. A fingerstyle technique works best.The tuning is already a chord, so it is very easy to get a good sound.
Just my opinion
DADGAD!
@fingal42 Oh no supperior please we're all friends :D Funny thing with the cora is that despite many strings they typically play a rhythmic figure that repeats for a given section of a song, rather than melody phrase -kind of like if you check guit. of Seasick Steve on 'Cut my Wings' song. so to play this(wish i could show what i mean)you make the thumb & index fingers in this shape(what Carthy insinuated) & produce these rhythmic figures--these r the african/oldtimer style ones.Cheers
"but it's to our benefit, as we haven't lost him to th US like Richard Thompson."
That's an unfair statement. R. Thompson just happens to resonate, rightly or wrongly with a large group. This doesn't make him any better or worse. Carthy is a genius and will remain a genius whether he's huge in the U.S. or not. Besides, without American folk/blues music, you'd have neither Thompson nor Carthy. It'd be something different altogether. Point is: ditch the Nationalism in music.
@fingal42 I'm sorry to correct you but the entire lute/oud family of instruments do indeed have roots in north africa----quite easy to trace, actually
Whilst it is true that the fretted strings on a sitar are usually tuned to D, A and G, it is also true that DADGAD is a minor variation on Vestapol (DADF#AD) and cross note (DADFAD) tunings used by many of the pre-war rural black American blues players.
It would be quite a stretch to imagine that Graham hadn't heard the work of these players also.
The banjo and West African gourd instruments are like humans and chimpanzees, they share a common ancestor but have evolved differently. The modern banjo is a creole instrument which has influences of both Africa and Europe
absolute cringelord
Davey Graham invented DADAGAD? - Bollocks,
DADGAD was popularised by British Davey Graham
@slowuncle; I see - thanks for that. Ethnomusicology isn't my strong point. Do you know of any good books on the subject? Trying to be objective, I'm not sure it matters much what family an instrument is in; though I recently saw a gourd banjo on UA-cam (played by Mike Seeger) which put me straight on the subject. Anyway - I love any stringed instrument, irrespective of its family tree.
Back in 1975 Davey Graham was interviewed by a British guitar magazine and mentioned he had the idea of bringing something approximating sitar tuning to the guitar-i.e. the close intervals of the 2nd and 3rd strings.DADGAD was what he came up with.in a later issue of the same magazine Martin Carthy backed up this claim and confirmed this.
Before Davey Graham your average folkie just strummed in 1st position.
Or to put it another way-if Davey Graham didn't originate DADGAD,who did?
DADGAD is a slight variation of the standard open D "Vestapol" tuning (DADF#AD) tuning used by countless rural Blues players.
Actually from the ngoni /related instruments. Not the Kora.
err, okay!
@fingal42 The banjo is INTIMATELY related to the african cora the way it is played in the mountain variation this gentleman talks about. This is not the bluegrass style. It what they call in parts of US i've played 'mountain or 'oldtimers. It REALLY does use very very African rhythm patterns/loops/shapes. on the other hand i play renaissance lute and i'm telling you, there is strictly nothing in its logic, structure or way of playing in common with the banjo which is on skin like cora.
You are completely correct that "mountain/old time" banjo is not bluegrass. Carthy mentions "mountain minor" - a common tuning for this old-style playing a la Dock Boggs for example is "sawmill" GDGCD on a 5 string banjo. Dock Boggs acknoledged the influence of black players that he saw.
@hallobaaaby - I can well believe the banjo has African roots; it's an interesting subject. Having heard a couple of cora players, those instruments have a hell of a lot of strings! The banjo was the first stringed instrument I heard as my dad used to play one (sadly no longer)... I bow to your superior knowledge on this. ;)
do you just tune the standard strings to DADGAD or use named strings?
yes tune the standard strings DOWN to DADGAD :)
Wizzy Wig Ta..
I don’t follow his explanation. How do you arrive at DADEAE by tuning DADGAD down a 4th and doing some adjustments?! Is there some genre specific lingo here, that I’m not familiar with? Tuning DADGAD down a 4th would result in AEADEA, which is nowhere near DADEAE. Not to mention that with regular gauge strings tuning down a 4th would make intonation unmanageable, etc..
He said something like wanted to work with the middle 4 string, but ended up on the 1st 2 strings. The 1st 2 strings in DADGAD are A and D. He dropped those 2 string by a 4th. So in effect those strings became 'middle' strings by virtue of being tuned lower. That is my guess.
Complete nonsense! The banjo - like the guitar - is in the lute family of musical instruments, and its repertoire includes Classical music. A well made banjo has a superb ringing tone, but less sustain than a guitar. It just needs a different approach.
classical music was played on banjo much later by americans during the "elevation" (i say that without believing it is an elevation) period; it was not originally for the banjo.
everybody sounds a bit pretentious to me bit guitar snobbish
ok.
I love how says that standard tuning is an orchestra. Yet when he plays in Martin Carthy tuning it sounds like he is playing more tha one instrument. Absolutely bloody marvelous.