best yet,clear and exacting in what your doing,this is how i want to be taught on bee managing,thank you so much,i will be looking at your other videos.
Hi Stewart, this is a fantastic video, well explained procedures and it works! I had a very strong colony which I managed to split... 4 times in one go (I had 2 brood box absolutely packed and about 10 swarm cells, so quite urgent to do something!) I now have 4 hives with 1 super each., and yes, the original hive did swarm anyway... and came back to the hive... and swarmed again! I'm learning...
Thanks for this Video. I've been doing the same for years but never done this with two Nucs. I like this as usually with just one box i find there is too many bees going in to the new Nuc box, so i stopped this method and went to physically using a shaker box and making nucs like that, however this is a better method, if you have 2 nucs to fill. Better use of resources and a natural effect of the bees returning to find the queen gone, swarmed as they might think. Like you said a different method that might suit someone else.
Hi Richard, Thanks for the comments. You are spot on with your comment about too many bees into one nuc box. I tried and failed with that myself before switching to the two nucs system. It works great for me and I can always use extra queens. Stewart
Nice to see some professionals on youtube and thank you. I am trying to expand my hives after a new start now in Dorset and I will try out this technique at swarm time depending on their strength. I have an apiary on a friend's field near Ferndown with two hives there, so ideally for rapid expansion I will do a two way split on both hives with the nucs going on the mother hive sites, and then because I want some bees in my garden take the mother hives home to my place in Tarrant Rushton. The only complication is one of the hives is agressive so I am preparing to requeen it with a bought queen, so depending on timing that may somewhat compromise my goal. Meantime please keep up your good work, because there are so many videos out there by amateurs who present themselves as experts when they have only just started.
Hi Greg, Thanks for your comments. Good luck with your beekeeping this season. It sounds like you have a plan in place which is always the best way to start. Modify and change that plan as your situation develops and work with your bees for the best outcome. Stewart
Stewart, I lost four of my five hives this summer with virgin queen problems (that's another story) and I have been looking for a simple way to get even in 2017 and your video was just what the doctor ordered THANK you so much. Hope you don't mind me pointing out that at 5min and 25 sec in you say "we will take the queen away and let them raise a new queen" but you moved the whole hive. Still very good and I'v pressed the RED button. Bob Cheshire UK
Hi Robert, Many thanks for your kind comments and I'm glad it has given you a plan for next season. You have no idea how hard it is for me to concentrate on beekeeping and talking at the same time lol, I'm getting better but it's very strange being in front of the camera at times! I think what I mean is we take the queen away and let the nucs raise a new queen but what I think I'm saying and what actually comes out of my mouth are sometimes totally different!! Stick with me and I'll hopefully get better with age! Stewart
You may be surprised by the number of beekeepers hidden away near you, that said, if you are in isolation that gives you the perfect opportunity to raise queens with drones that you want them to mate with. It may mean obtaining some more bees from your local area in Northwich to increase the gene pool a little but it would be a great way to maintain your stocks and begin a bee improvement programme. Stewart
Hi StewardMy interrest of beekeeping has awaken in the last few months, and now I am lerning as much as possible of tthe internet to see, if beekeeping is for me. In this regard, I like your videos a lot. Thanks. Keep them comming , they are gold :) I have some questions for this video: 1: Elsewhere, I see beekeepers 'graft' young larvae for new queens. Do you prefer to let the bees make the queencells them selves? And further, if a queen has died out of the hive, do you prefer to find a queencell somewhere, do you graft, or do you offer the hive a frame of brood, so the remaining bees can make the queencells themself? 2: If you have several hives at the same site, how close could you place them, without the bees making neighbourhood war? And is there an upper level of hives, that you would set in the one site (given that the area can carry the amount of bees)?
Hi, Thanks for stopping by and commenting. I graft larvae and use queen cells produced naturally, if the queen cells are from a colony I want to reproduce from and they are good quality queen cells I would happily use them but grafting gives me most control over the process. I will produce grafting videos next year. You can have hives literally back to back or besides each other but make sure the entrances are facing different directions so they do not drift into the wrong hive. This prevents the spread of disease. I usually aim to have no more that 12-15 hives in one site depending on the forage that is available for them, also, it is a good number to inspect in one session before having a break. It should be enjoyable not a mad race to get all inspections finished. Above all else, I want to enjoy my beekeeping. I hope that helps. Stewart
Hi Matt, If there are emerging brood and it's a helpful Spring/Summer then four to six weeks. It isn't an exact science though so some will want more room earlier while others seem to sit happily in a nuc for monthsd on end! Stewart
I did my first split last night. I only made up 1 nuc. 3 frames. 1 of honey/pollen. 2 capped brood and open. Shook lil extra bees in. . Found what looked like a queen cell. So I placed it in there as well. Kept nuc in original spot and moved parent.
Good evening Stewart, I will definately be doing this this season, just a quick question, how much is honey production affected in the parent colony using this method? Great video as usual. All the best
Hi Richard, thanks for the question. I just checked my records and the parent colony produced two supers of honey totalling 24.5kg. How much more they would have produced is difficult to assess because they also swarmed! I was happy with the outcome as I now have two thriving, overwintering nucs and a strong parent colony. Stewart
Ok thanks. I will add frame to each nuc if still no sign of queen cells. No there were no qc at time of split. I just decided to do walk away splits on 2 hives. Thanks
So I purchased 2 queens... when going into the 1 hive low and behold there's eggs in it... As I was running out of time I put my extra queen in another box(caged) with a frame of brood,honey,pollen and some bees, Looks like every worked out. Thanks Stewart your the best
hi mate hows it going great work love the video good information for a new bee keeper like my self. I have a quick question, I caught a swarm bout 2 months ago and the hive is really strong have added my super after 4 weeks and checked yesterday and they have pretty much filled the top box already .how long can till I can split this hive? any help wold be great thanks
Hi Beaver Rock Beekeeper, Great that the swarm you caught is doing so well, you're obviously looking after them well. In terms of splitting them it really depends on where you are and how long your season lasts for. Here in the UK I try to get all of my splits done by the end of August to give them time to build back up for Winter and that relies on good weather in the early Autumn which isn't always guaranteed. If you have fine weather and a decent nectar flow then those conditions will be favourable to a successful split. The best option would be to check with other more experienced, local beekeepers for timings or check out some local beekeeper websites to see what others are doing in your area. I hope that helps a little. Stewart
thanks for taking the time to get back to me mate. I live in Australia its middle of spring time here atm. I go a bit of time before the winter hits here.. not having much luck with local bee keepers in my area its a small town and nobody wants to spend there time to help its a pain cheers again
I had bad luck with keeping bee the last 2 years. Watching this video gives me hope. I bought a 5 frames nuc in mid March. Now it has drawn out 8 frames of a 10 frames deep box. When I inspected the hive couple weeks ago, I noted that they already started to make a swarm cell. Yesterday, I checked again and saw the cup is still empty and couple more emergency queen cells. I found the queen and there are a lot of broods, capped and uncapped. I put a super on top. Can I wait until they make more queen cells then make the split? I'm more interested to make more bees than honey.
Hi Airtime Vu, Thanks for commenting. The single cup without an egg is unlikely to be a swarm cell so no need to worry (Yet!). I would remove the cup and see how they react. If you get lots more cups and then they have eggs in them, that is the time to think they might be about to start the swarming process. Yes, I would wait for more Queen cells before I made a split of any sort. Stewart
thanks for an interesting and informative video. So if you can find the queen, she stays in the original hive with any nurse bees on the remaining frames. Any flying bees return to the nucs and become nuc population. Does this still work if you don't find the queen? She can be in any one of the three boxes and it would still work?
hi there, In this video where you moved the orginal hive and queen to a nearby location, and you created two nucs in the original location, and before you moved two frames with suitable queen cells did you shake the nursing bees off in the original hive before placing in nucs? Thank You beesbuzz52
Hi Bruno, I don't shake the frames with the queen cells in order to keep the queens in the cells safe and undisturbed. There are plenty of nurse bees emerging and with the sealed queen cells there is no immediate need for nurse bees. Those emerging from the capped brood will take over as nurse bees so the colony balances itself out quite nicely. Stewart
Hi and thanks for the great video. I'm on my second year of beekeeping and only have 1 hive which came through winter ok and has a strong queen. No honey last year as the colony swarmed at the beginning of May. This year I am torn as I would like to avoid swarming again and also if possible finally harvest some honey. I'm not sure what I should do though. I don't want them to swarm but don't want to disrupt their honey production. Any advice? Thanks!
Lots of options here, sounds like you should join us on my Patreon Caoching Plus group. We discuss this kind of topic in our monthly Zoom meetings. Stewart
Hi Stewart. Thank you very much for the videos they are immensely helpful. Just want to check if I got iti right. So the result is, the old hive on a new location with the old queen and the majority of brood, and two new sworms in theirs respective nucleus boxes with one capped queen cell for box ?
Hi Tom, Thanks for commenting. Your description is exactly right. I have used this method several times this season and had mixed results. A couple have produced drone laying queens through poor mating but generally it has been very successful. Stewart
Having some issues with the 2 hives from my split. They still haven't produced a queen. Question last time I put a frame in, I first shook off all the bees then put it in the queenless hive. I'm thinking because there's no nurse bees they were unable to produce. So I have 2 frames ready to go in full off eggs and larva and capped. They are covered in nurse bees. Will they be ok to drop those frames into the queenless hives?,. Since then I've collected 2 swarms both without the queens. Ugh 4 hives with out queens right now.
Hi Jay, Sorry to hear you're having a few beekeeping challenges. In two of the splits I did earlier in the month I have one nuc in each that is queenless, it seems it just goes that way sometimes. I split another colony down into four nucs and all of those now have laying queens so it often seems like the flip of a coin as to how successful they are! A lot will depend on your resources in terms of number of colonies, there are several ways forward some may be more positive for you than others. You could find there are queens but that they are taking longer than normal to mate and lay, adding a frame of eggs might see them producing queen cells and confirm they are queenless. Are you able to produce any queens by other means? Adding a frame of nurse bees will likely see bees fighting so only add a frame of eggs/larvae/capped brood. You could add a frame of capped brood and wait for them to emerge as nurse bees then add eggs. The options are many, a lot depends on your resources really. If you have a frame with a queen cell you could brush off the bees and place that in and see if they tear it down, that would indicate there is a queen in the colony perhaps. I'm sorry I can't be more specific, it's tricky to recommend something not being in front of the hives. Stewart
At Last an English post!! Very interesting . I'm going to try this next year. Few questions: What happens to the other hive with old queen and bees , how will the bees find that hive again? And what happens if there are more than one queen cell on a frame?
Hi Iris, Thanks for stopping by to comment. The old hive is moved approx. 6m away ( you can just see it in the background in the video). The old queen stays with that hive and all the flying bees go back to the original stand where the two nucs are. as new bees emerge to go foraging they orientate themselves to the hive in the new position and don't know about the original position. If there are more than one queen cells on a frame you select the best QC and remove the rest. I hope that explains it. I'll repeat the exercise in the Spring and try to explain more fully then. Stewart
Hi Stewart, Thank very much , yes I did see the hive. and thanks for your clear explanation. I will try this next Spring. Only thing is how do you know which is the best QC? I have another question? I have made an eke which I lined with hessian material and placed with Aspen bedding , as Aspen is very moisture absorbent and as condensation could happen in the hive. Do you think this is a good idea? Iris
As far as the selection of queen cells goes it's a matter of (usually) choosing the biggest, plumpest, "nicest" looking queen cell. And even then sometimes I guess wrong! But that's all part of the fascination for me so I don't mind if I occasionally get it wrong. In terms of the eke, it really depends on your local conditions, where are you keeping the bees? My preference is to have an open mesh floor to allow air to circulate, I don't have really severe Winter temperatures here in Norfolk UK so I've never put any insulation on top of the hive and haven't suffered any losses because of it. Maybe I should try next year and see if I end up with larger colonies going through the Winter. I would say keep the bees warm enough so that condensation doesn't occur rather than trying to soak it up, you'll just end up with a damp reservoir above the bees. I hope that helps. Stewart
Hi Stuart I've got a hive that has built up very quickly and I am going to try this method of splitting for the first time. My question is if you haven't got developing queen cells in the hive can you still split the hive giving each nucc a frame of eggs to build queen cells from?
Hi Mark, You can but I would wait until you have queen cells. The reason for this is if you split the colony without queen cells, the workers will go into emergency queen rearing impulse whereas if they have already created queen cells they are likely to be better provisioned with royal jelly and therefore give you better queens. You can do it, but I would wait and go with developing queen cells. Stewart
Hi Michael, Yes, exactly right, it's called a "dummy board" and it acts as a kind of internal wall against the end frame, it makes it easier to remove the first frame without rolling and killing bees. Stewart
So what about the original hive, is that left now where you left it for good..? and what about they worker bee's aren't they now low on numbers.. Thanks
Hi browniebiker, As with most things beekeeping the bees tend to do stuff when you least expect it! I've had bees swarm with queen cells in most stages even with just a single queen cell loaded with an egg. Generally though, I find they will have capped cells prior to swarming, it's all about timing your inspections and a certain amount of luck I think! The wooden nuc boxes were originally from a company called Solway Beekeeping Supplies, a nice bunch of people and some really good kit. www.solwaybeesupplies.co.uk/ STewart
Thanks for the reply. I've looked at Solway bits before but never purchased anything from them. Their commercial Nuc is a very good price, especially for Cedar as well!
Is this also the practice you would adopt to sell bees on, or keep as an over wintered nuc to sell next spring? I do not want to increase my colony of 3 hives to any more and don't know what to do with the swarms I will inevitably end up with. I understand it is worth keeping some Q's just incase I lose one or need to re-Q for another reason. Many thanks Patreon Lisa Mack x
Hi Lisa, You could use this method for nuc production for bees to sell, overwintering nucs and surplus queens. In fact, you can use them in most situations which is why it's such a great method. You could split and use one nuc to replace the ageing queen in the original hive and create a nuc for sale with the other or retain it as a spare replacement queen to overWinter just incase. Stewart
Stewart, if this was done in April/ early in the season would you expect the original hive to be honey producing at the end of the season and likewise for the two nucs?
Hi TVrevision, thanks for commenting. The original hive has produced a reasonable amount of honey but as you might expect it is on a reduced basis. The nucs in this instance were used to supplement other colonies so were not used for honey production but you might expect them to produce a single super of honey if the conditions are favourable. Stewart
Thanks for the great clip and clear explanations. How far away did you move the 'mother' hive - does it matter? (I have just seen the answer below so all good! thanks again)
Hi Michael, One of the nucs is now a full size colony building up nicely for this Autumn and the other I've been using frames of brood to supplement another small colony. I'm going to use the queen to requeen another colony that has become rather "spiteful" whenever I inspect so it's all good. Stewart
When you have the opportunity to bring on a couple of new queens in this way, two full brood boxes means two floors; two boxes; two roofs; and either 20 - 22 frames, or messing about with dummy boards so that the bees don't have an unnecessarily large box while the queen is getting mated and coming into lay. OR fails to mate. Either way, it isn't the best use of resources. The two nucs achieve what you need - getting your two new queens mated and laying, and with the same footprint as the full-sized box that was in situ. And the nuc boxes are vastly easier to move around and transport too, if needs be.
Hi Jay, The parent hive stays in the same apiary, in the video you can see it in the new position in the top right of the screen. This is deliberate to allow all of the flying bees to go back to the original position and increase the number of bees in each nucleus colony. I'll be going back to inspect next week so watch out for the next instalment of the video. This is a great way to increase the number of colonies you have or a way to produce two new queens to use in other hives before uniting them all back into one if so desired. Regards Stewart
I tried splitting my hive this method couple days ago. I watched the 2 new nucs for couple of hours to ensure they have an even population of foragers. This morning, I found one hive have way more bees than the other. How can I fix it? I just leave them alone?
Hi Airtime Vu, I find that from time to time I end up with a couple of nucs that are unbalanced using this method and there isn't always time to sit around watching and moving the nucs. I normally leave them alone and let them get on with it for a few weeks unless they are very depleted and then I might put a shaken frame of emerging brood into the weaker nuc from the stronger one. I then add a frame of sealed brood later to give the weaker one a few more bees. Stewart
Updating the splits that I made... The nuc with more bees swarmed three times this week. I was able to capture all of them. I found 3 queens. I'm very sure that I left only one queen cell. What do you think?
Hi, The colony wouldn't have swarmed without a queen so I guess you may have either missed a couple of cells or maybe they created a couple more. These things happen but at least you managed to grab them, well done for doing that. Stewart
Hi Stewart, Love your videos, very informative. Could you make more than 2 nucs if the Q/C’s were available? Even if you had to take brood/stores from another hive? If so, how many could you put in that location without being to crowded? Thanks and keep up there good work! David
Hi David, Yes, absolutely, as long as you have enough adult bees to make up a decent sized nucleus colony you can split them down as far as you want. I would probably only go down to two frame nucs if the queen cells were capped to make sure they had enough royal jelly though. Stewart
Hi Stewart, you removed 2 frames with QC's to start your nuc's. What did you do with the QC's on the remaining frames? If they were left, would that not encourage the original Q to swarm? Thanks for your really instructive videos, they are a pleasure to watch. Steve
Hi Steve, Thanks for your comments. The additional queen cells were all removed to prevent swarming. As memory serves, I think I actually missed a queen cell and the parent colony did indeed eventually swarm! Sometimes despite our best efforts the bees still come out on top! Stewart
Hi JC Mac, The head space provides space for ventilation, the roofs have small ventilation slots in the side which also aid ventilation. The space is also useful if I'm putting on fondant above the crownboard. Here in the UK I think pretty much all roofs have this space. Stewart
Yes if you leave the feed hole open and don't get a super on before a strong nectar flow, only happened to me once but my goodness they are quick to build comb and fill it when they are in a space you don't want them to be! I learnt my lesson and get honey boxes on really quickly now. Stewart
Stewart 4//16/17 Did a split on 2 hives. Weather out look was good. checked 4/19/ for cells and nothing. Weather has turned terrible and now have 2 hives queenless. You think if I did a frame of grafts it would take. But that won't be till sat. 22nd. Whole time queenless. Best action ?? Can I add a frame of fresh eggs from parent hives combine ??
Hi Jay, Just to confirm you made two nucs from one parent and still have the parent colony with the original queen in it? Did the splits have queen cells in them before you made the split? If not, add a frame of eggs to each nuc at the weekend as you suggest and check in a week for queen cells again. The weather here has been cold and not really good for doing anything much with the bees. Stewart
Hi Stewart. I know this is a old video but this is my first season and I'm working my way through them all lol. I'm sorry if this Q has been asked before (I did look below but found no answer) I understand why you put the new nucs in the place of the original hive (to get the flying bees to go back to it) BUT I was taught on my theory course that a hive =, is this case your original one, should be moved 3 feet or 3 miles. I noticed in the video that you moved it out with either of these distances, just behind the nucs. Can you explain why that is ok to do when we have the 3 mile/3 feet rule please? Many thanks Patreon Lisa MacK x
Hi Lisa, The reason is to allow all of the flying bees from the parent colony to drift back to the two nucs. If the parent was closer the flying bees would return to the parent colony, if it were 3 miles away I would deprive the nucs of additional bees and we're trying, in this method, to provide all of the flying bees from the parent colony to reduce their impulse to swarming. I hope that helps explain. Stewart
The Norfolk Honey Company . Hi, I know this is an older video but did you leave the original hive where is it permanently or move it to another location when the nucs had settled down. Cheers.
Hi Soufiane SABAA, Yes I will be producing a video to show how to use two brood boxes and the ways in which I try to prevent them swarming. It doesn't always work but it does help. Once the new season gets going I will make the video, not long now but still too cold for inspecting the bees here in the UK. Stewart
thanks a lot, her in north Africa spring will start soon and beekeepers in my village don't know a lot about modern techniques, so i will wait, good luck staward.
Hi, Great Video. I have a very big colony currently on a brood and 1/2. They are producing several play cups and lots of drone brood. If i wanted to split my colony to make increase could I use the same principle but with frames of eggs instead of queen cells? Thanks Mark
Hi Mark, You could but the bees available to feed royal jelly would be greatly reduced. I would perhaps remove the queen and a few frames to a nuc and allow the main colony to build queen cells and then look to split from there. You should get much better queen cells that way. Stewart
Sir ; the forager are coming back to the new two hives on old location why they are not going the old hive containing original queen by sensing her pheromone some people says that we have to close the old hive with queen for 24 hours ?
Hi Umer, Good question, by moving the parent colony some distance away from the original site the returning worker bees cannot detect the queen's pheromone and so they go into the new nucleus colonies. This is why you should not move a normal hive more than a couple of feet away from it's position or the workers will just go back to the original spot. I've never closed a hive for 24 hrs when doing this and never had a problem. Stewart
And the bees that we shift with the original queen don't help the forager in sensing the queen pheromone and tell them that the queen is in other hive?
Hi Stewart - as new beekeeper, thanks for your series. Some questions I cant find elsewhere. 1. Given right conditions, it seem colony growth is endless. Does this mean, apart from adding supers, year on year hives will need to be split to prevent swarming? If so, it seem I could end up with multiple hives! 2. Do workers place eggs or grubs into queen cells? This would be important if the queen was removed or if a hive was split without a queen for the new hive.
Hives will swarm if they are overcrowded or the queen is too old. If you change the queen after 2 years and ensure they have enough room to expand over summer then swarming is much less likely.
1. Swarming is reproduction, so adding supers isn't really an effective counter-measure at all. There are many ways to prevent swarming, and while 'splitting' or 'artificial swarming' in some form or another is extremely common, it isn't the only way. Apart from which, you can make a 'split' or 'artificial swarm' and then make a decision to unite both halves back to one, if you're not after increase. So in that case, the doubling of colonies that arises from swarm control methods, is temporary. 2. If a colony loses it's queen suddenly, the workers will modify cells that the queen has laid worker larvae into. You can see this by comparing a picture of an 'emergency' cell, versus either a 'swarm' or 'supersedure' cell. There is a window of opportunity for them to do this, a point in development after which a larva can not become a queen. If you want to make a 'pre-emptive' split for swarm control, taking the queen away in a nuc with just enough of an entourage and resources to get going again, then all you need to do is make sure there are plenty eggs and larvae left behind. But to get decent queen cells you must ensure that you leave behind a really strong population of especially nurse bees, and resources. Doing as Stewart has done here is arguably better than that, as the bees have selected the larvae that they want.
Hypothetically what would happen if you left the nucs next to the original hive? Would the nurse bees simply return there or would they still rear a new queen?
@@P22-h6t Hey, I know it's been five months but you never received an answer and its coming to that time of year again to consider swarming. So to answer your questions; If you left the nucs right beside (or within 3km) of the original hive and let them fly straight away after splitting, the vast majority would simply return to the original parent hive. So it is advised to either move the nuc away a good few Kms for a few days to a week. SO if you have a friend who wouldn't mind you plopping down a nuc in their yard just for a week (or three days), do that. Then after the week (or three days as I do) the bees will have forgotten about the original hive and will now return to the nuc as their new hive. Another method which I do is simply close the nuc off for three days, with feed given the bees and a grill for ventilation. This will help the bees forget about hte old hive and grow accustom to the nuc. Now in regard to the queen in the nuc issue. That could cause an issue because presumably you would be putting frames into the nuc that have a capped queen cell on them. I'm not sure what would happen here but the acidental queen may try to swarm again simply because there's a queencell in her hive ready to go or she'll destroy the queen cell. I'd try your hardest to ensure that this does not happen though. If the original hive is left without a queen (Which is the method I take. I usually move the queen to another nuc and leave the original hive with the queen cells), if there are no queen cells and they have brood under three days old, they can rear a new queen. Hope that helps.
Hi Mark, Thanks for the question. The roof sapce allows for a mini feeder or block of fondant to fit under the roof without exposing them to robbing in the late Summer/Autumn. I am also able to pop some insulation under the roof to help if needed. Stewart
Stuart, thank you for another great video, your work is such a rich store of reference material and always appreciated. I am going to make two mini mating nucs using the bs honey 2 in 1 nuc to accept some cells reared using the Nicot method (also carried out using your videos as reference). With that 2 in 1 nuc would you turn the nuc 90 degrees so that the two entrances are facing the sides of the old hive position so that returning bees drift to one of the two entrances rather than have all the bees going back just to the front entrance and causing imbalance? Or would you use another method?
Hi Pizza Dude, Thanks for the comments and question. If you're using it to raise a couple of queen cells from you won't need many bees in each side so I would probably find the queen in the old hive, cage her to keep her safe and then put a frame of emerging brood, a frame of food and a frame of foundation in each side but shake a few extra frames in each side to increase the number of bees. The foragers will fly back to the main hive but you will have enough bees in each side to take care of an emerging virgin queen. Leave the old hive in its original place and release the old queen back onto a frame once you've completed the operation. Stewart
Most infomative thank you. If you are splitting a hive which has a nasty Queen, will the new hives have the same violent tendencies, considering they have some of the same genes ??
Hi Lissadell, The traits of the colony are driven by the queen, so with a split colony the newly introduced queen will have her traits gradually take over the colony as the older unrelated bees die. Stewart
I was taught that once that queen lays an egg in a queen cell and they cap it, she is likely to leave if she has not already. So when you split, you took that queen away so that she feels like she swarmed and then will now not in a new box, and the old colony will believe they have basically been left behind to raise the new queen?
Hi, With swarming I try to think of the colony as three parts, Queen, flying bees and brood. I was always taught that to try to prevent swarming you need to split one from the three parts. In this instance I'm removing the flying bees from the old queen and brood. If the old queen doesn't have any flying bees she can't swarm and it reduces the colony size so they then have more space in the old hive. So yes, the nucs believe the colony has swarmed and produce a new queen and carry on as normal. Stewart
Hi Stewart. Lovely video and exactly what I was looking for! I was wondering, however, why you didn't move the hives more than 5 miles away from the original spot? In my beekeeping classes this was always what we've been taught
Hi Tiffy Cha, Thanks for commenting. With this method you are adding bees to the two nuc boxes by leaving them in the position of the old hive so that the flying bees return to the nucs. Once everything has settled down in terms of having a new laying queen in each nuc you can then move them without any issue. If you moved them straight away you would not have that many bees in each nuc. There are many different methods of making splits and raising new queens some require them to be moved which can be quite complicated but others are quite simple and straightforward, ideally suited to anyone who does not have an out apiary. Stewart
Hi Andrew, Thanks for the question. The lids on the nucs are deep enough to house a small feeder inside and thus prevent robbing. It allows me to put fondant on the crownboard and keep it hidden without having to use eke's or other equipment. Hope that helps answer your question. Stewart
Can I split a strong hive when they are in mid production of the honey excluded super? How do I know if theres a queen to queen the new split, how do I get the queen mated, it's so confusing, can't anyone just spell it all out on a whiteboard, like option a, b,c. And which option is best for what time of year, and what specific situations different keepers will be faced with ? Thanks in advance
Hi WCC, It can be really confusing but start with thinking about what you want to do, produce honey? Prevent swarming? Split for an increase? Replace an old queen? etc. Then look at where the hive is at in terms of size, health, queen cell production etc. I'll do my best to cover off some of the issues you raise once our season starts again. drop me a message via my website to remind me of topics you'd like covered. Stewart
Hi Stewart, I did this today but now having second thoughts - I left each nuc with fairly new charged cells, rather than fully extended and capped. Should they be ok, or should I undo and revert to a traditional A/S ? Thanks, Patrick
Just reporting to say that both nucs are now laid up with some eggs. Will leave them alone now for a few weeks to get on with it. Here's hoping for a good pattern ! Thank you Stewart. Patrick
Can someone answer this please? I have 2 hives and installed to packages of bees about a month ago. A week after installation, I checked and the queens were released and doing well. Now I notice today that the bees are flying back and forth between the two hives with no problem. This isn't normal I think. The hives are only about 10' apart.
@@Irishtradchannel Thanks for the reply. No I don't think so. They are actually going back and forth from both hives and have only been in the hives for a short time. Like they have a vacation home. ha ha ha. Anyhow what I did is early in the morning I sealed up one hive and moved it about 100' from the other one. Seems ok now. :} I hope
@@chuckbasics8972 I know.this was 9 months ago but you must of had robbing there would be no other reason for bees to go to another hive. Also you cant move a hive 100ft the foragers will return to original location. If moving a hive move under 2 ft or over 2 miles. If you have robbing issues reduce the entrance, if its continually bad, you have a weak or dieing hive, you may need to move it or consolidate to another hive.
Thanks for the great video Stewart. I have very strong colony that has some QC in them and would like try this method. You mentioned the Dave Cushman site but I'm not finding the method. Can you give more detail to what it is titled? Thank you in advance.
Hi Chad, Thanks for commenting. As I recall the method was in the queen rearing section but I will take a look when I have time and see if I can find a url for you. The method is pretty straightforward and works well in most instances. Stewart
There are lots if different ways to get to the end result. Leaving 2 nucs on same site has caused the bees some confusion so they're up in the air. There is also a possibility of a newly mated queen from 1 of the nucs drifting into the wrong box. The 2 nucs contain a lot of nurse and flying bees and colonies without question are very unproductive. A better way would have been to leave old queen on old site and set 2 nucs up elsewhere. This is pretty much the way bees would split in a natural swarm, ie queen + flying bees, queen cells with nurse bees. Alternatively a double nuc box above the old queen with entrances facing opposite ways would have kept all the bees working together.
i have a note if you don't mind. old bees should stay with the old queen (like in natural swarm), and they young bees go withe the nucs (the bees who take care of new queen should bee young).so the queen mother should stay in her original position. sorry for my bad english
Hi Soufiane SABAA, in this instance it doesn't really matter a great deal as there are sufficient nurse bees on the frames moved with the queen cells and more emerging over the first week or so. The reason for the nucs being in the old hive position is to populate them with a high number of flying bees to enable them to be self sufficient in terms of foraging and give them plenty of bees for all the other tasks. It gives them lots of bees so they get off to a really fast start. It's a really good method of splitting that has worked well for many beekeepers. Stewart
Hi Stewart I’m not a bee keeper... yet. A few Quick questions regarding two new Nucs. Firstly will the worker bees produce drone cells to mate with virgin queens once they emerge. Second question which I can’t seem to find out is in this situation “two nucs” will the queens return ‘hopefully’ to their hives once mated with the drones?
Hi Darren, The workers won't lay eggs apart from some unusual situations. They will wait for their new queen to mate and she will be the only egg layer in the colony (normally). Yes, the queens return to their own nucs having successfully mated. Stewart
Location , Fife in Scotland. I have done an artificial swarm as per your video 1 and 2 as the single parent National double brood chambered hive I have produced a number of loaded capped and uncapped queen cells. This in the last week , is this too early for swarming , I'm thinking will there be a large enough pool of Drones available for successful mating? So I have the original hive moved about 1 metre away and the new hive is on the original site with the original queen with frames of foundation , two frames of sealed and emerging brood (checked for and removed queen cells) and also a single frame of stores. Having a double brood chamber parent is it ok to add extra frames of brood and stores into the new hive? Could I also create a couple of Nucs from the parent hive even now after a split as they raise their own new queen cells , there are plenty frames of sealed brood and flying bees even now in the parent hive? Sorry for such a long query. You have an excellent series of videos all very informative , I'd be lost without such help. Regards Jim
Hi Jim, Thanks for the message. Here in Norfolk, we've already had swarms, but I'm not sure what it's like for you in the North. I would move the original hive a bit further away if you can. Yes, you can add additional frames into the new hive, you should certainly have enough bees to cover them. Yes, you can split further in you want, it's an excellent way of creating more queens or for increase. Let me know how you get on. Looks like chilly weather heading this way soon, fingers crossed all goes well for you. Stewart
@@TheNorfolkHoneyCoThanks for the quick reply Stewart , I wonder how far is sensible to move the parent hive. I've got some poly National NUCs coming Friday so will try making increase. We'll see how it goes. Again keep up the great work on UA-cam. Jim
@@TheNorfolkHoneyCo , update , the parent hive has raised and sealed some emergengy queen cells. Transferred a frame with one emergency queen cell along with some brood and stores to a nuc. Left parent hive with one emergency queen cell to see what happens. The new hive with the original queen appears to be going great guns , fingers crossed. Then I came to my Apiary last Saturday morning to find two separate swarms clumped up in the long grass , they were a couple of feet apart about 30 feet from the hives I have just been talking about. These swarms didn't seem to be interacting with each other that made me think they were separate swarms. One swarm is half the size of the other , cast maybe , I don't know if these are from my hives but it is possible. I put a couple of open upsidedown NUCs I had (each NUC had been fragranced with queen/lemongrass tincture) over the top of the swarms to encourage them to climb towards the darkness , this worked , half an hour and they were in the boxes. I then framed up the NUCs with foundation and positioned them properly with roofs on , I did read somewhere to anchor them to the hives one should place some frames with brood if available. Apparently they won't abandon brood so this must be what anchoring means. Anyway thanks for your videos , just watched the two virgin queens having a disagreement. Regards -Jim
4 роки тому
When you rest your frames on the rest of the hive aren't you crushing bees ?
Im not sure what everyone hear is talking about....i found this video to be completely lacking in critical information...it did not show how and Witch frams to use other than the obvious...the frame with the queen cell on it....ya well done there mate. Try showing food, pollen brood frames and if you had to shake in any nurse bees...maybe you should have taken the day off.
He did ,however, leave a link where he got this technique from. Also said that you would get it in way more detail than he shows. If you're interested follow the link!!
Helpful and interesting. UR a real pro at handling bees Stewart. Enjoy the clear "English" presentation
best yet,clear and exacting in what your doing,this is how i want to be taught on bee managing,thank you so much,i will be looking at your other videos.
Hi Colin,
Thanks very much for your kind comments. I shall be posting lots more videos as we get into the new beekeeping season.
Stewart
Hi Stewart, this is a fantastic video, well explained procedures and it works! I had a very strong colony which I managed to split... 4 times in one go (I had 2 brood box absolutely packed and about 10 swarm cells, so quite urgent to do something!) I now have 4 hives with 1 super each., and yes, the original hive did swarm anyway... and came back to the hive... and swarmed again! I'm learning...
Hi breizhtoday,
thanks for the kind comments. Great that it worked for you so well.
Stewart
Thank you very much for interesting Video! Good luck in beekeeping!
Hi Dr. Fursov,
Many thanks for your comments.
Stewart
Thanks for this Video. I've been doing the same for years but never done this with two Nucs. I like this as usually with just one box i find there is too many bees going in to the new Nuc box, so i stopped this method and went to physically using a shaker box and making nucs like that, however this is a better method, if you have 2 nucs to fill. Better use of resources and a natural effect of the bees returning to find the queen gone, swarmed as they might think. Like you said a different method that might suit someone else.
Hi Richard,
Thanks for the comments.
You are spot on with your comment about too many bees into one nuc box. I tried and failed with that myself before switching to the two nucs system. It works great for me and I can always use extra queens.
Stewart
Nice to see some professionals on youtube and thank you. I am trying to expand my hives after a new start now in Dorset and I will try out this technique at swarm time depending on their strength. I have an apiary on a friend's field near Ferndown with two hives there, so ideally for rapid expansion I will do a two way split on both hives with the nucs going on the mother hive sites, and then because I want some bees in my garden take the mother hives home to my place in Tarrant Rushton. The only complication is one of the hives is agressive so I am preparing to requeen it with a bought queen, so depending on timing that may somewhat compromise my goal. Meantime please keep up your good work, because there are so many videos out there by amateurs who present themselves as experts when they have only just started.
Hi Greg,
Thanks for your comments.
Good luck with your beekeeping this season. It sounds like you have a plan in place which is always the best way to start. Modify and change that plan as your situation develops and work with your bees for the best outcome.
Stewart
Stewart, I lost four of my five hives this summer with virgin queen problems (that's another story) and I have been looking for a simple way to get even in 2017 and your video was just what the doctor ordered THANK you so much. Hope you don't mind me pointing out that at 5min and 25 sec in you say "we will take the queen away and let them raise a new queen" but you moved the whole hive. Still very good and I'v pressed the RED button.
Bob
Cheshire UK
Hi Robert,
Many thanks for your kind comments and I'm glad it has given you a plan for next season. You have no idea how hard it is for me to concentrate on beekeeping and talking at the same time lol, I'm getting better but it's very strange being in front of the camera at times! I think what I mean is we take the queen away and let the nucs raise a new queen but what I think I'm saying and what actually comes out of my mouth are sometimes totally different!!
Stick with me and I'll hopefully get better with age!
Stewart
Sorry I did't mean to . you, I pointed it out as it may have seemed a little misleading to a newcomer. Keep up the good work please.
and taken in the way you meant, always happy for comments. Where about are you from?
That last post should have read 'have embarrassed'. I'm from a village near Northwich in Cheshire, problem no fellow beekeepers, that = lack of DRONES
You may be surprised by the number of beekeepers hidden away near you, that said, if you are in isolation that gives you the perfect opportunity to raise queens with drones that you want them to mate with. It may mean obtaining some more bees from your local area in Northwich to increase the gene pool a little but it would be a great way to maintain your stocks and begin a bee improvement programme.
Stewart
Thanks from Conwy Beekeepers. Easy to follow method, will recommend.
Hi Peter,
Thanks for your comments, I find it one of the easiest methods around to be honest.
Have a great season.
Stewart
Wonderful video! Great information once again. Thank you for all your time and effort.
Hi Jeffrey,
thanks for your comments and continued support, it's really appreciated.
Stewart
Hi StewardMy interrest of beekeeping has awaken in the last few months, and now I am lerning as much as possible of tthe internet to see, if beekeeping is for me. In this regard, I like your videos a lot. Thanks. Keep them comming , they are gold :) I have some questions for this video: 1: Elsewhere, I see beekeepers 'graft' young larvae for new queens. Do you prefer to let the bees make the queencells them selves? And further, if a queen has died out of the hive, do you prefer to find a queencell somewhere, do you graft, or do you offer the hive a frame of brood, so the remaining bees can make the queencells themself? 2: If you have several hives at the same site, how close could you place them, without the bees making neighbourhood war? And is there an upper level of hives, that you would set in the one site (given that the area can carry the amount of bees)?
Hi,
Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
I graft larvae and use queen cells produced naturally, if the queen cells are from a colony I want to reproduce from and they are good quality queen cells I would happily use them but grafting gives me most control over the process. I will produce grafting videos next year.
You can have hives literally back to back or besides each other but make sure the entrances are facing different directions so they do not drift into the wrong hive. This prevents the spread of disease.
I usually aim to have no more that 12-15 hives in one site depending on the forage that is available for them, also, it is a good number to inspect in one session before having a break. It should be enjoyable not a mad race to get all inspections finished. Above all else, I want to enjoy my beekeeping.
I hope that helps.
Stewart
Hiya,
Great video, thank you. How long would you expect the nucs to grow numbers before putting them in a full size hive?
Thank you
Hi Matt,
If there are emerging brood and it's a helpful Spring/Summer then four to six weeks. It isn't an exact science though so some will want more room earlier while others seem to sit happily in a nuc for monthsd on end!
Stewart
I did my first split last night. I only made up 1 nuc. 3 frames. 1 of honey/pollen. 2 capped brood and open. Shook lil extra bees in. . Found what looked like a queen cell. So I placed it in there as well. Kept nuc in original spot and moved parent.
Hi Jay,
that sounds great, fingers crossed the queen cell develops for you. let me know how it goes.
Stewart
Stewart said a Bee Course! I am looking for that. Let me know! Thanks. Terry
How far did you place the original queen from the nuc.
I don't understand why the comments are turned off on your newer videos? You are doing a good job and very insightful. Hope you have a good year.
Good evening Stewart, I will definately be doing this this season, just a quick question, how much is honey production affected in the parent colony using this method? Great video as usual. All the best
Hi Richard,
thanks for the question.
I just checked my records and the parent colony produced two supers of honey totalling 24.5kg. How much more they would have produced is difficult to assess because they also swarmed! I was happy with the outcome as I now have two thriving, overwintering nucs and a strong parent colony.
Stewart
Ok thanks. I will add frame to each nuc if still no sign of queen cells. No there were no qc at time of split. I just decided to do walk away splits on 2 hives.
Thanks
Ok that's good to know. I'll brush off the nurse bees and add it. See what happens.
Thanks stu much appreciated.
Let me know how you get on.
Stewart
So I purchased 2 queens... when going into the 1 hive low and behold there's eggs in it... As I was running out of time I put my extra queen in another box(caged) with a frame of brood,honey,pollen and some bees,
Looks like every worked out. Thanks Stewart your the best
Did this method also stop the original queen in the original hive from swarming? Thanks
hi mate hows it going great work love the video good information for a new bee keeper like my self. I have a quick question, I caught a swarm bout 2 months ago and the hive is really strong have added my super after 4 weeks and checked yesterday and they have pretty much filled the top box already .how long can till I can split this hive? any help wold be great thanks
Hi Beaver Rock Beekeeper,
Great that the swarm you caught is doing so well, you're obviously looking after them well.
In terms of splitting them it really depends on where you are and how long your season lasts for. Here in the UK I try to get all of my splits done by the end of August to give them time to build back up for Winter and that relies on good weather in the early Autumn which isn't always guaranteed. If you have fine weather and a decent nectar flow then those conditions will be favourable to a successful split. The best option would be to check with other more experienced, local beekeepers for timings or check out some local beekeeper websites to see what others are doing in your area.
I hope that helps a little.
Stewart
thanks for taking the time to get back to me mate. I live in Australia its middle of spring time here atm. I go a bit of time before the winter hits here.. not having much luck with local bee keepers in my area its a small town and nobody wants to spend there time to help its a pain cheers again
I had bad luck with keeping bee the last 2 years. Watching this video gives me hope. I bought a 5 frames nuc in mid March. Now it has drawn out 8 frames of a 10 frames deep box. When I inspected the hive couple weeks ago, I noted that they already started to make a swarm cell. Yesterday, I checked again and saw the cup is still empty and couple more emergency queen cells. I found the queen and there are a lot of broods, capped and uncapped. I put a super on top. Can I wait until they make more queen cells then make the split? I'm more interested to make more bees than honey.
Hi Airtime Vu,
Thanks for commenting.
The single cup without an egg is unlikely to be a swarm cell so no need to worry (Yet!). I would remove the cup and see how they react. If you get lots more cups and then they have eggs in them, that is the time to think they might be about to start the swarming process. Yes, I would wait for more Queen cells before I made a split of any sort.
Stewart
thanks for an interesting and informative video. So if you can find the queen, she stays in the original hive with any nurse bees on the remaining frames. Any flying bees return to the nucs and become nuc population.
Does this still work if you don't find the queen? She can be in any one of the three boxes and it would still work?
hi there,
In this video where you moved the orginal hive and queen to a nearby location, and you created two nucs in the original location, and before you moved two frames with suitable queen cells did you shake the nursing bees off in the original hive before placing in nucs?
Thank You
beesbuzz52
Hi Bruno,
I don't shake the frames with the queen cells in order to keep the queens in the cells safe and undisturbed. There are plenty of nurse bees emerging and with the sealed queen cells there is no immediate need for nurse bees. Those emerging from the capped brood will take over as nurse bees so the colony balances itself out quite nicely.
Stewart
Hi and thanks for the great video. I'm on my second year of beekeeping and only have 1 hive which came through winter ok and has a strong queen. No honey last year as the colony swarmed at the beginning of May. This year I am torn as I would like to avoid swarming again and also if possible finally harvest some honey. I'm not sure what I should do though. I don't want them to swarm but don't want to disrupt their honey production. Any advice? Thanks!
Lots of options here, sounds like you should join us on my Patreon Caoching Plus group. We discuss this kind of topic in our monthly Zoom meetings.
Stewart
Hi Stewart. Thank you very much for the videos they are
immensely helpful. Just want to check if I got iti right. So the result is, the old hive on a new location with the old queen and the majority of brood, and two new sworms in theirs respective nucleus boxes with one capped queen cell for box ?
Hi Tom,
Thanks for commenting.
Your description is exactly right. I have used this method several times this season and had mixed results. A couple have produced drone laying queens through poor mating but generally it has been very successful.
Stewart
Having some issues with the 2 hives from my split. They still haven't produced a queen. Question last time I put a frame in, I first shook off all the bees then put it in the queenless hive. I'm thinking because there's no nurse bees they were unable to produce. So I have 2 frames ready to go in full off eggs and larva and capped. They are covered in nurse bees. Will they be ok to drop those frames into the queenless hives?,. Since then I've collected 2 swarms both without the queens. Ugh 4 hives with out queens right now.
Hi Jay,
Sorry to hear you're having a few beekeeping challenges. In two of the splits I did earlier in the month I have one nuc in each that is queenless, it seems it just goes that way sometimes. I split another colony down into four nucs and all of those now have laying queens so it often seems like the flip of a coin as to how successful they are!
A lot will depend on your resources in terms of number of colonies, there are several ways forward some may be more positive for you than others. You could find there are queens but that they are taking longer than normal to mate and lay, adding a frame of eggs might see them producing queen cells and confirm they are queenless. Are you able to produce any queens by other means?
Adding a frame of nurse bees will likely see bees fighting so only add a frame of eggs/larvae/capped brood. You could add a frame of capped brood and wait for them to emerge as nurse bees then add eggs. The options are many, a lot depends on your resources really. If you have a frame with a queen cell you could brush off the bees and place that in and see if they tear it down, that would indicate there is a queen in the colony perhaps.
I'm sorry I can't be more specific, it's tricky to recommend something not being in front of the hives.
Stewart
At Last an English post!! Very interesting . I'm going to try this next year. Few questions: What happens to the other hive with old queen and bees , how will the bees find that hive again? And what happens if there are more than one queen cell on a frame?
Hi Iris,
Thanks for stopping by to comment.
The old hive is moved approx. 6m away ( you can just see it in the background in the video). The old queen stays with that hive and all the flying bees go back to the original stand where the two nucs are. as new bees emerge to go foraging they orientate themselves to the hive in the new position and don't know about the original position. If there are more than one queen cells on a frame you select the best QC and remove the rest.
I hope that explains it. I'll repeat the exercise in the Spring and try to explain more fully then.
Stewart
Hi Stewart, Thank very much , yes I did see the hive. and thanks for your clear explanation. I will try this next Spring. Only thing is how do you know which is the best QC? I have another question? I have made an eke which I lined with hessian material and placed with Aspen bedding , as Aspen is very moisture absorbent and as condensation could happen in the hive. Do you think this is a good idea? Iris
As far as the selection of queen cells goes it's a matter of (usually) choosing the biggest, plumpest, "nicest" looking queen cell. And even then sometimes I guess wrong! But that's all part of the fascination for me so I don't mind if I occasionally get it wrong.
In terms of the eke, it really depends on your local conditions, where are you keeping the bees? My preference is to have an open mesh floor to allow air to circulate, I don't have really severe Winter temperatures here in Norfolk UK so I've never put any insulation on top of the hive and haven't suffered any losses because of it. Maybe I should try next year and see if I end up with larger colonies going through the Winter.
I would say keep the bees warm enough so that condensation doesn't occur rather than trying to soak it up, you'll just end up with a damp reservoir above the bees.
I hope that helps.
Stewart
I added 2 frames to 1 queenless. Combined queenless swarm with queen right. Fingers crossed. Thanks again. 1 hive is nasty mean. Wow
Good luck with it.
Stewart
What is the best time of year to carry out such a splitting exercise?
Thanks for the great video! When is the right time of the year to split a colony? Thanks 😊
Hi Stuart
I've got a hive that has built up very quickly and I am going to try this method of splitting for the first time. My question is if you haven't got developing queen cells in the hive can you still split the hive giving each nucc a frame of eggs to build queen cells from?
Hi Mark,
You can but I would wait until you have queen cells. The reason for this is if you split the colony without queen cells, the workers will go into emergency queen rearing impulse whereas if they have already created queen cells they are likely to be better provisioned with royal jelly and therefore give you better queens. You can do it, but I would wait and go with developing queen cells.
Stewart
Thanks for your advice Stewart.
Thanks for this Video
Hi Chiefman,
Thanks for stopping to watch, I appreciate the feedback.
Stewart
Hi,
Watched your video and other, subscribed and thumbs up :)
Keep up the good work. Where about's are you based?
Stewart
Chiefman h
i saw you had a piece of plywood on the box side of the first frame. Do you do that so you dont get any honeycomb on the box end?
Hi Michael,
Yes, exactly right, it's called a "dummy board" and it acts as a kind of internal wall against the end frame, it makes it easier to remove the first frame without rolling and killing bees.
Stewart
I never saw that before..I think its an excellent idea. Thanks Stewart
I missed a detail
You brought two frames full of bees and added to each new hive?
Plus each has a queen cell correct ?
So what about the original hive, is that left now where you left it for good..? and what about they worker bee's aren't they now low on numbers..
Thanks
The original hive retains it's queen and continues to develop through the season, sometimes giving a small crop off honey.
I thought that they swarm just before the queen cells are fully capped? Also whereabouts do you get your commercial nucs from?
Hi browniebiker,
As with most things beekeeping the bees tend to do stuff when you least expect it! I've had bees swarm with queen cells in most stages even with just a single queen cell loaded with an egg. Generally though, I find they will have capped cells prior to swarming, it's all about timing your inspections and a certain amount of luck I think!
The wooden nuc boxes were originally from a company called Solway Beekeeping Supplies, a nice bunch of people and some really good kit. www.solwaybeesupplies.co.uk/
STewart
Thanks for the reply. I've looked at Solway bits before but never purchased anything from them. Their commercial Nuc is a very good price, especially for Cedar as well!
Is this also the practice you would adopt to sell bees on, or keep as an over wintered nuc to sell next spring? I do not want to increase my colony of 3 hives to any more and don't know what to do with the swarms I will inevitably end up with. I understand it is worth keeping some Q's just incase I lose one or need to re-Q for another reason. Many thanks Patreon Lisa Mack x
Hi Lisa,
You could use this method for nuc production for bees to sell, overwintering nucs and surplus queens. In fact, you can use them in most situations which is why it's such a great method.
You could split and use one nuc to replace the ageing queen in the original hive and create a nuc for sale with the other or retain it as a spare replacement queen to overWinter just incase.
Stewart
@@TheNorfolkHoneyCo lool
Stewart, if this was done in April/ early in the season would you expect the original hive to be honey producing at the end of the season and likewise for the two nucs?
Hi TVrevision,
thanks for commenting. The original hive has produced a reasonable amount of honey but as you might expect it is on a reduced basis. The nucs in this instance were used to supplement other colonies so were not used for honey production but you might expect them to produce a single super of honey if the conditions are favourable.
Stewart
Great info mate! You've got a new subscriber ;)
Hi T.B.B.M,
Thanks for your comment, great to have you onboard.
Stewart
Very interesting video, much better than reading a book. I will hopefully try procedure later in the year.
Hi Jon,
Thanks for the message. I wish you well in trying it this season.
Please do let me know how you get on.
Stewart
Could you put them straight into a full sized hive? What is the latest month that you would do a split?
Thanks for the great clip and clear explanations. How far away did you move the 'mother' hive - does it matter? (I have just seen the answer below so all good! thanks again)
Hi anepictree,
thanks for commenting.
The parent colony can be seen in tha background in some of the clips. It was about 4 or 5m away approx.
Stewart
You have such sweet bees.
did good bro.. shood have two nice col.. soon if queens take
Hi Michael,
One of the nucs is now a full size colony building up nicely for this Autumn and the other I've been using frames of brood to supplement another small colony. I'm going to use the queen to requeen another colony that has become rather "spiteful" whenever I inspect so it's all good.
Stewart
Michael Moore
Why do you use a nuc box and not a full 10 frame brood?
When you have the opportunity to bring on a couple of new queens in this way, two full brood boxes means two floors; two boxes; two roofs; and either 20 - 22 frames, or messing about with dummy boards so that the bees don't have an unnecessarily large box while the queen is getting mated and coming into lay. OR fails to mate. Either way, it isn't the best use of resources.
The two nucs achieve what you need - getting your two new queens mated and laying, and with the same footprint as the full-sized box that was in situ.
And the nuc boxes are vastly easier to move around and transport too, if needs be.
I live in Australia and cant find the gloves you recommend - can you please advise?
What do you do with the parent hive with its location. Keep it where ever you move it ??
Hi Jay,
The parent hive stays in the same apiary, in the video you can see it in the new position in the top right of the screen. This is deliberate to allow all of the flying bees to go back to the original position and increase the number of bees in each nucleus colony. I'll be going back to inspect next week so watch out for the next instalment of the video.
This is a great way to increase the number of colonies you have or a way to produce two new queens to use in other hives before uniting them all back into one if so desired.
Regards
Stewart
I tried splitting my hive this method couple days ago. I watched the 2 new nucs for couple of hours to ensure they have an even population of foragers. This morning, I found one hive have way more bees than the other. How can I fix it? I just leave them alone?
Hi Airtime Vu,
I find that from time to time I end up with a couple of nucs that are unbalanced using this method and there isn't always time to sit around watching and moving the nucs. I normally leave them alone and let them get on with it for a few weeks unless they are very depleted and then I might put a shaken frame of emerging brood into the weaker nuc from the stronger one. I then add a frame of sealed brood later to give the weaker one a few more bees.
Stewart
Updating the splits that I made... The nuc with more bees swarmed three times this week. I was able to capture all of them. I found 3 queens. I'm very sure that I left only one queen cell. What do you think?
Hi,
The colony wouldn't have swarmed without a queen so I guess you may have either missed a couple of cells or maybe they created a couple more.
These things happen but at least you managed to grab them, well done for doing that.
Stewart
You can switch locations with the other nuc, may need to switch it a couple of times, good thing that the weight allows this old man to do that, LOL.
Hi Stewart,
Love your videos, very informative.
Could you make more than 2 nucs if the Q/C’s were available? Even if you had to take brood/stores from another hive? If so, how many could you put in that location without being to crowded?
Thanks and keep up there good work!
David
Hi David,
Yes, absolutely, as long as you have enough adult bees to make up a decent sized nucleus colony you can split them down as far as you want. I would probably only go down to two frame nucs if the queen cells were capped to make sure they had enough royal jelly though.
Stewart
Hi Stewart, you removed 2 frames with QC's to start your nuc's. What did you do with the QC's on the remaining frames? If they were left, would that not encourage the original Q to swarm?
Thanks for your really instructive videos, they are a pleasure to watch.
Steve
Hi Steve,
Thanks for your comments.
The additional queen cells were all removed to prevent swarming. As memory serves, I think I actually missed a queen cell and the parent colony did indeed eventually swarm!
Sometimes despite our best efforts the bees still come out on top!
Stewart
Thanks, very informative.
What is the purpose of the head space in the cover? Thanks for the video.
Hi JC Mac,
The head space provides space for ventilation, the roofs have small ventilation slots in the side which also aid ventilation. The space is also useful if I'm putting on fondant above the crownboard. Here in the UK I think pretty much all roofs have this space.
Stewart
Do the bees ever try to use the space and build comb?
Yes if you leave the feed hole open and don't get a super on before a strong nectar flow, only happened to me once but my goodness they are quick to build comb and fill it when they are in a space you don't want them to be! I learnt my lesson and get honey boxes on really quickly now.
Stewart
Imagine that would be strong inventive......!
Stewart
4//16/17
Did a split on 2 hives. Weather out look was good. checked 4/19/ for cells and nothing. Weather has turned terrible and now have 2 hives queenless. You think if I did a frame of grafts it would take. But that won't be till sat. 22nd. Whole time queenless. Best action ?? Can I add a frame of fresh eggs from parent hives combine ??
Hi Jay,
Just to confirm you made two nucs from one parent and still have the parent colony with the original queen in it?
Did the splits have queen cells in them before you made the split?
If not, add a frame of eggs to each nuc at the weekend as you suggest and check in a week for queen cells again. The weather here has been cold and not really good for doing anything much with the bees.
Stewart
Hi Stewart. I know this is a old video but this is my first season and I'm working my way through them all lol. I'm sorry if this Q has been asked before (I did look below but found no answer) I understand why you put the new nucs in the place of the original hive (to get the flying bees to go back to it) BUT I was taught on my theory course that a hive =, is this case your original one, should be moved 3 feet or 3 miles. I noticed in the video that you moved it out with either of these distances, just behind the nucs. Can you explain why that is ok to do when we have the 3 mile/3 feet rule please? Many thanks Patreon Lisa MacK x
Hi Lisa,
The reason is to allow all of the flying bees from the parent colony to drift back to the two nucs.
If the parent was closer the flying bees would return to the parent colony, if it were 3 miles away I would deprive the nucs of additional bees and we're trying, in this method, to provide all of the flying bees from the parent colony to reduce their impulse to swarming.
I hope that helps explain.
Stewart
The Norfolk Honey Company . Hi, I know this is an older video but did you leave the original hive where is it permanently or move it to another location when the nucs had settled down. Cheers.
good morning Steward, could you show us how to increase a number of flaying bees using tow hive brood box, and how to stop them to swarm.
Hi Soufiane SABAA,
Yes I will be producing a video to show how to use two brood boxes and the ways in which I try to prevent them swarming. It doesn't always work but it does help.
Once the new season gets going I will make the video, not long now but still too cold for inspecting the bees here in the UK.
Stewart
thanks a lot, her in north Africa spring will start soon and beekeepers in my village don't know a lot about modern techniques, so i will wait, good luck staward.
Is this the last one or more coming up on UA-cam
Didn’t remove the original queen from the hive? Won’t they still swarm?
Hi, Great Video. I have a very big colony currently on a brood and 1/2. They are producing several play cups and lots of drone brood. If i wanted to split my colony to make increase could I use the same principle but with frames of eggs instead of queen cells? Thanks Mark
Hi Mark,
You could but the bees available to feed royal jelly would be greatly reduced. I would perhaps remove the queen and a few frames to a nuc and allow the main colony to build queen cells and then look to split from there.
You should get much better queen cells that way.
Stewart
Sir ; the forager are coming back to the new two hives on old location why they are not going the old hive containing original queen by sensing her pheromone some people says that we have to close the old hive with queen for 24 hours ?
Hi Umer,
Good question, by moving the parent colony some distance away from the original site the returning worker bees cannot detect the queen's pheromone and so they go into the new nucleus colonies. This is why you should not move a normal hive more than a couple of feet away from it's position or the workers will just go back to the original spot.
I've never closed a hive for 24 hrs when doing this and never had a problem.
Stewart
And the bees that we shift with the original queen don't help the forager in sensing the queen pheromone and tell them that the queen is in other hive?
Hi Stewart - as new beekeeper, thanks for your series. Some questions I cant find elsewhere. 1. Given right conditions, it seem colony growth is endless. Does this mean, apart from adding supers, year on year hives will need to be split to prevent swarming? If so, it seem I could end up with multiple hives! 2. Do workers place eggs or grubs into queen cells? This would be important if the queen was removed or if a hive was split without a queen for the new hive.
Hives will swarm if they are overcrowded or the queen is too old. If you change the queen after 2 years and ensure they have enough room to expand over summer then swarming is much less likely.
1. Swarming is reproduction, so adding supers isn't really an effective counter-measure at all. There are many ways to prevent swarming, and while 'splitting' or 'artificial swarming' in some form or another is extremely common, it isn't the only way.
Apart from which, you can make a 'split' or 'artificial swarm' and then make a decision to unite both halves back to one, if you're not after increase. So in that case, the doubling of colonies that arises from swarm control methods, is temporary.
2. If a colony loses it's queen suddenly, the workers will modify cells that the queen has laid worker larvae into. You can see this by comparing a picture of an 'emergency' cell, versus either a 'swarm' or 'supersedure' cell. There is a window of opportunity for them to do this, a point in development after which a larva can not become a queen.
If you want to make a 'pre-emptive' split for swarm control, taking the queen away in a nuc with just enough of an entourage and resources to get going again, then all you need to do is make sure there are plenty eggs and larvae left behind. But to get decent queen cells you must ensure that you leave behind a really strong population of especially nurse bees, and resources.
Doing as Stewart has done here is arguably better than that, as the bees have selected the larvae that they want.
Hypothetically what would happen if you left the nucs next to the original hive? Would the nurse bees simply return there or would they still rear a new queen?
Also, what if you accidentally moved the queen into a nuc, would the original hive simply rear a new one. And is this ok?
@@P22-h6t Hey, I know it's been five months but you never received an answer and its coming to that time of year again to consider swarming. So to answer your questions; If you left the nucs right beside (or within 3km) of the original hive and let them fly straight away after splitting, the vast majority would simply return to the original parent hive. So it is advised to either move the nuc away a good few Kms for a few days to a week. SO if you have a friend who wouldn't mind you plopping down a nuc in their yard just for a week (or three days), do that. Then after the week (or three days as I do) the bees will have forgotten about the original hive and will now return to the nuc as their new hive. Another method which I do is simply close the nuc off for three days, with feed given the bees and a grill for ventilation. This will help the bees forget about hte old hive and grow accustom to the nuc.
Now in regard to the queen in the nuc issue. That could cause an issue because presumably you would be putting frames into the nuc that have a capped queen cell on them. I'm not sure what would happen here but the acidental queen may try to swarm again simply because there's a queencell in her hive ready to go or she'll destroy the queen cell. I'd try your hardest to ensure that this does not happen though.
If the original hive is left without a queen (Which is the method I take. I usually move the queen to another nuc and leave the original hive with the queen cells), if there are no queen cells and they have brood under three days old, they can rear a new queen.
Hope that helps.
on your nuc's it appears the tops are quite high, is this to keep heat or cold from hitting the hive ?
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the question.
The roof sapce allows for a mini feeder or block of fondant to fit under the roof without exposing them to robbing in the late Summer/Autumn. I am also able to pop some insulation under the roof to help if needed.
Stewart
Stuart, thank you for another great video, your work is such a rich store of reference material and always appreciated. I am going to make two mini mating nucs using the bs honey 2 in 1 nuc to accept some cells reared using the Nicot method (also carried out using your videos as reference). With that 2 in 1 nuc would you turn the nuc 90 degrees so that the two entrances are facing the sides of the old hive position so that returning bees drift to one of the two entrances rather than have all the bees going back just to the front entrance and causing imbalance? Or would you use another method?
Hi Pizza Dude,
Thanks for the comments and question.
If you're using it to raise a couple of queen cells from you won't need many bees in each side so I would probably find the queen in the old hive, cage her to keep her safe and then put a frame of emerging brood, a frame of food and a frame of foundation in each side but shake a few extra frames in each side to increase the number of bees. The foragers will fly back to the main hive but you will have enough bees in each side to take care of an emerging virgin queen. Leave the old hive in its original place and release the old queen back onto a frame once you've completed the operation.
Stewart
Most infomative thank you. If you are splitting a hive which has a nasty Queen, will the new hives have the same violent tendencies, considering they have some of the same genes ??
Hi Lissadell,
The traits of the colony are driven by the queen, so with a split colony the newly introduced queen will have her traits gradually take over the colony as the older unrelated bees die.
Stewart
What kind do you have? Africanized?
Thank You very much !Do you also place e a honey frame in each hive or just brood and foundation with Queen cell frame ?
Hi Mario,
I do add a frame of food to the nucs as well as emerging brood.
Stewart
@@TheNorfolkHoneyCo Thanks again!
I was taught that once that queen lays an egg in a queen cell and they cap it, she is likely to leave if she has not already. So when you split, you took that queen away so that she feels like she swarmed and then will now not in a new box, and the old colony will believe they have basically been left behind to raise the new queen?
Hi,
With swarming I try to think of the colony as three parts, Queen, flying bees and brood. I was always taught that to try to prevent swarming you need to split one from the three parts. In this instance I'm removing the flying bees from the old queen and brood. If the old queen doesn't have any flying bees she can't swarm and it reduces the colony size so they then have more space in the old hive.
So yes, the nucs believe the colony has swarmed and produce a new queen and carry on as normal.
Stewart
So you removed the queen from the original hive so she would not swarm?
He is not giving a detailed method, only the split. The Queen has to be born and do a successful mating flight. Youd have a Good job filming that!
Hi Stewart. Lovely video and exactly what I was looking for! I was wondering, however, why you didn't move the hives more than 5 miles away from the original spot? In my beekeeping classes this was always what we've been taught
Hi Tiffy Cha,
Thanks for commenting.
With this method you are adding bees to the two nuc boxes by leaving them in the position of the old hive so that the flying bees return to the nucs. Once everything has settled down in terms of having a new laying queen in each nuc you can then move them without any issue. If you moved them straight away you would not have that many bees in each nuc. There are many different methods of making splits and raising new queens some require them to be moved which can be quite complicated but others are quite simple and straightforward, ideally suited to anyone who does not have an out apiary.
Stewart
Hi Stewart
what about the ORIGINAL hive? from yr video it seemed you just popped it on the other side of the yard
What's the purpose of those massive lids?
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the question. The lids on the nucs are deep enough to house a small feeder inside and thus prevent robbing. It allows me to put fondant on the crownboard and keep it hidden without having to use eke's or other equipment.
Hope that helps answer your question.
Stewart
Hi. When is the latest time to start nuc to be over winter to use it next spring. Thanks
Hi,
Late Summer would be my latest point. They will need time to build up through Autumn in preparation to go into Winter.
Stewart
Hi Stuart,
Please can you 🐝 a bit more specific, what do you class as late summer?
It’s now the 7th of July, am I still ok to be doing splits?
@@bengibbon9229 yes, i do small 5 frame splits in october in California
Do you use brood boxes for honey ,
no
Can I split a strong hive when they are in mid production of the honey excluded super? How do I know if theres a queen to queen the new split, how do I get the queen mated, it's so confusing, can't anyone just spell it all out on a whiteboard, like option a, b,c. And which option is best for what time of year, and what specific situations different keepers will be faced with ? Thanks in advance
Hi WCC,
It can be really confusing but start with thinking about what you want to do, produce honey? Prevent swarming? Split for an increase? Replace an old queen? etc. Then look at where the hive is at in terms of size, health, queen cell production etc.
I'll do my best to cover off some of the issues you raise once our season starts again. drop me a message via my website to remind me of topics you'd like covered.
Stewart
@@TheNorfolkHoneyCo Thank you mate, kind regards from Australia (frustrated beginner lol)
Hi Stewart, I did this today but now having second thoughts - I left each nuc with fairly new charged cells, rather than fully extended and capped. Should they be ok, or should I undo and revert to a traditional A/S ?
Thanks,
Patrick
Hi Patrick,
They should be fine. Just let them continue as they are and you should get a couple of nice new nucs out of it.
Stewart
Thank you.
Just reporting to say that both nucs are now laid up with some eggs. Will leave them alone now for a few weeks to get on with it. Here's hoping for a good pattern !
Thank you Stewart.
Patrick
Can someone answer this please? I have 2 hives and installed to packages of bees about a month ago. A week after installation, I checked and the queens were released and doing well. Now I notice today that the bees are flying back and forth between the two hives with no problem. This isn't normal I think. The hives are only about 10' apart.
One hive may be robbing the other.
@@Irishtradchannel Thanks for the reply. No I don't think so. They are actually going back and forth from both hives and have only been in the hives for a short time. Like they have a vacation home. ha ha ha. Anyhow what I did is early in the morning I sealed up one hive and moved it about 100' from the other one. Seems ok now. :} I hope
@@chuckbasics8972 I know.this was 9 months ago but you must of had robbing there would be no other reason for bees to go to another hive. Also you cant move a hive 100ft the foragers will return to original location. If moving a hive move under 2 ft or over 2 miles. If you have robbing issues reduce the entrance, if its continually bad, you have a weak or dieing hive, you may need to move it or consolidate to another hive.
@@peteGbee But you have to move it 3 miles or more not just 2, bees fly 3 miles.
Thanks for the great video Stewart. I have very strong colony that has some QC in them and would like try this method. You mentioned the Dave Cushman site but I'm not finding the method. Can you give more detail to what it is titled? Thank you in advance.
Hi Chad,
Thanks for commenting. As I recall the method was in the queen rearing section but I will take a look when I have time and see if I can find a url for you. The method is pretty straightforward and works well in most instances.
Stewart
Chad Mitchell I found the URL for the method I use. www.dave-cushman.net/bee/rogerpattersonmethod.pdf I hope you find it useful. Stewart
Thank you
There are lots if different ways to get to the end result. Leaving 2 nucs on same site has caused the bees some confusion so they're up in the air. There is also a possibility of a newly mated queen from 1 of the nucs drifting into the wrong box. The 2 nucs contain a lot of nurse and flying bees and colonies without question are very unproductive. A better way would have been to leave old queen on old site and set 2 nucs up elsewhere. This is pretty much the way bees would split in a natural swarm, ie queen + flying bees, queen cells with nurse bees. Alternatively a double nuc box above the old queen with entrances facing opposite ways would have kept all the bees working together.
In an artificial swarm you still have to emulate a natural swarm as much as possible, so the old queen leaves the colony any which way.
i have a note if you don't mind. old bees should stay with the old queen (like in natural swarm), and they young bees go withe the nucs (the bees who take care of new queen should bee young).so the queen mother should stay in her original position. sorry for my bad english
Hi Soufiane SABAA,
in this instance it doesn't really matter a great deal as there are sufficient nurse bees on the frames moved with the queen cells and more emerging over the first week or so. The reason for the nucs being in the old hive position is to populate them with a high number of flying bees to enable them to be self sufficient in terms of foraging and give them plenty of bees for all the other tasks. It gives them lots of bees so they get off to a really fast start. It's a really good method of splitting that has worked well for many beekeepers.
Stewart
thanks a lot for all information
Hi Stewart I’m not a bee keeper... yet. A few Quick questions regarding two new Nucs. Firstly will the worker bees produce drone cells to mate with virgin queens once they emerge. Second question which I can’t seem to find out is in this situation “two nucs” will the queens return ‘hopefully’ to their hives once mated with the drones?
Hi Darren,
The workers won't lay eggs apart from some unusual situations. They will wait for their new queen to mate and she will be the only egg layer in the colony (normally). Yes, the queens return to their own nucs having successfully mated.
Stewart
Another great video, thank you Stuart. How far away did you move the ordinal hive?
Hi Colin,
If it's the video I'm thinking of, you can see the new position of the original hive in the video. It's only 40-5 m away.
Cheers
Stewart
You give food patty while the super is on?? Hmmmm.
Location , Fife in Scotland. I have done an artificial swarm as per your video 1 and 2 as the single parent National double brood chambered hive I have produced a number of loaded capped and uncapped queen cells. This in the last week , is this too early for swarming , I'm thinking will there be a large enough pool of Drones available for successful mating? So I have the original hive moved about 1 metre away and the new hive is on the original site with the original queen with frames of foundation , two frames of sealed and emerging brood (checked for and removed queen cells) and also a single frame of stores. Having a double brood chamber parent is it ok to add extra frames of brood and stores into the new hive? Could I also create a couple of Nucs from the parent hive even now after a split as they raise their own new queen cells , there are plenty frames of sealed brood and flying bees even now in the parent hive? Sorry for such a long query. You have an excellent series of videos all very informative , I'd be lost without such help. Regards Jim
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the message.
Here in Norfolk, we've already had swarms, but I'm not sure what it's like for you in the North. I would move the original hive a bit further away if you can. Yes, you can add additional frames into the new hive, you should certainly have enough bees to cover them. Yes, you can split further in you want, it's an excellent way of creating more queens or for increase.
Let me know how you get on. Looks like chilly weather heading this way soon, fingers crossed all goes well for you.
Stewart
@@TheNorfolkHoneyCoThanks for the quick reply Stewart , I wonder how far is sensible to move the parent hive. I've got some poly National NUCs coming Friday so will try making increase. We'll see how it goes. Again keep up the great work on UA-cam. Jim
@@TheNorfolkHoneyCo , update , the parent hive has raised and sealed some emergengy queen cells. Transferred a frame with one emergency queen cell along with some brood and stores to a nuc. Left parent hive with one emergency queen cell to see what happens. The new hive with the original queen appears to be going great guns , fingers crossed. Then I came to my Apiary last Saturday morning to find two separate swarms clumped up in the long grass , they were a couple of feet apart about 30 feet from the hives I have just been talking about. These swarms didn't seem to be interacting with each other that made me think they were separate swarms. One swarm is half the size of the other , cast maybe , I don't know if these are from my hives but it is possible. I put a couple of open upsidedown NUCs I had (each NUC had been fragranced with queen/lemongrass tincture) over the top of the swarms to encourage them to climb towards the darkness , this worked , half an hour and they were in the boxes. I then framed up the NUCs with foundation and positioned them properly with roofs on , I did read somewhere to anchor them to the hives one should place some frames with brood if available. Apparently they won't abandon brood so this must be what anchoring means. Anyway thanks for your videos , just watched the two virgin queens having a disagreement.
Regards
-Jim
When you rest your frames on the rest of the hive aren't you crushing bees ?
I WAS scared
Ist das milfara milfara
Hi,
Open mated here in Norfolk. A mix of subspecies no doubt.
Stewart
Great and simple to unsubscribe
Hi sissy morse,
Thanks for the message, but please don't unsubscribe!
Stewart
Im not sure what everyone hear is talking about....i found this video to be completely lacking in critical information...it did not show how and Witch frams to use other than the obvious...the frame with the queen cell on it....ya well done there mate. Try showing food, pollen
brood frames and if you had to shake in any nurse bees...maybe you should have taken the day off.
He did ,however, leave a link where he got this technique from. Also said that you would get it in way more detail than he shows. If you're interested follow the link!!
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