How the internet acts if you try to Like More Than One Thing
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- Опубліковано 21 лис 2024
- So do you like the Land of the Whirlpool or Zhortep IV? (You can only pick one.)
Music:
George Street Shuffle Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
creativecommons...
No no we can still salvage this. Yes, if you like one book that means you don't like another book, so all we need to do is construct a logic that allows for this type of contradiction.
Before we can can make a logic we need to know what the operators are. We consider preference statements of the form “I prefer φ to not-φ” and denote them as “Pref φ”, where “Pref” is a new modal operator representing preference. Let us also introduce a natural inference rule, which I will call the Zhortep rule:
if we have Pref ¬φ (meaning “I prefer ¬φ to φ)
then we can infer ¬Pref φ (meaning “I do not prefer φ to ¬φ”)
E.g.: If I want to not read Zhortep IV, we can infer I don’t want to read Zhortep IV (and thus that I want to read Land of the Whirlpool)
This may seem obvious, but here's the logical justification:
Let’s assume that when I say “I prefer X to Y” it means: “If I had to choose between X and Y and no other option, I would certainly choose X”
And let's assume “I prefer ¬X to X” means: “If I had to choose between X and ¬X and no other option, I would certainly choose ¬X”. Let’s further assume “it is imaginable that I have to choose between X and Y and no other option”. In that case we can make the following inference:
If I had to choose between X and Y and no other option, I would certainly choose ¬X
It is imaginable that I have to choose between X and Y and no other option
- from which we can infer
¬ (If I had to choose between X and Y and no other option, I would not certainly choose ¬X)
- from which we can infer
¬ (If I had to choose between X and Y and no other option, I might choose X)
- from which we can infer
¬ (If I had to choose between X and Y and no other option, I would certainly choose X)
Okay now that we have our operators and our rule, let’s see if we can make this preference logic.
One possible objection to the existence of inconsistent preferences is something which I’ll call a ‘preference explosion’. I will first write out the argument formally, and then in prose:
Pref φ & Pref ¬φ -assumption
Pref φ -from 1, conjunction elimination
Pref φ ∨ Pref ψ -from 2, disjunction introduction
Pref ¬φ -from 1, conjunction elimination
¬Pref φ -from 4, using the Zhortep rule
Pref ψ -from 3 & 5, disjunctive syllogism
(and ψ can be any possible preference, hence preference explosion)
In prose: I both want to read Zhortep IV and want to not read Zhortep IV, from which we can logically infer that I either want to read Zhortep IV or have bad taste. Since we can infer from my wanting to not read Zhortep IV, that I don't want to read Zhortep IV, we can infer that I want to have bad taste.
This seems strange right? Yet the Zhortep rule is quite natural and intuitive, and all the other inferences are valid in classical logic. If we take inconsistent preferences seriously we have to give up either:
Zhortep rule: Pref ¬φ ⊢ ¬Pref φ
conjunction elimination: φ & ¬φ ⊢ φ
disjunction introduction: φ ⊢ φ ∨ ψ
disjunctive syllogism: ¬φ, φ ∨ ψ ⊢ ψ
I think that last one, disjunctive syllogism (DS), is the one to reject. If we believe in inconsistent preferences we can no longer see it as a logically valid rule.
So DS is invalid, but that does not mean DS is a bad argument. DS is legitimate with consistent preferences. In a situation where someone just prefers Zhortep IV (and doesn’t simultaneously not prefer Zhortep IV) DS becomes reliable. In such situations we can treat DS as if it’s deductively valid. So DS is inductively strong, and if we are a little uncertain about whether inconsistent preferences are involved, then it makes the conclusion likely: in most such situations, the inference is valid, but in some rare situations it is not.
Our belief that DS is valid might have arisen because inconsistent situations are rare, so DS works in most situations. Compare the inference of DS with the inference:
A is a proper subset of B, so A is smaller than B.
(E.g. Ants are a type of Bug, so there are less Ants than Bugs)
This inference almost always works, only in cases of infinities does it break down. If there are infinitely many Ants there are also infinitely many Bugs, so the two sets could both be equally (infinitely) big.
This ‘subset inference’ is inductively strong, but not deductively valid, because sometimes you are talking about infinities. Perhaps this is similar to DS, it almost always works, just not when talking about a special situation (infinities and inconsistencies, respectively). (See the work of philosopher Graham Priest)
So the “subset inference” can’t be deductively valid because it treats infinities and non-infinities the same way. Is there something similar going on with “preference explosion”? The proof for “preference explosion” might mistakenly equate two slightly different ways to understand the disjunction “φ ∨ ψ”
“φ ∨ ψ” follows from φ alone. In this sense, because I know φ I can infer something else. Because I know that someone prefers “Zhortep IV” I can therefore infer that they either prefer “Zhortep IV” or “having bad taste”
which is slightly different from
“φ ∨ ψ” is somewhat equivalent to the ‘material conditional “if ¬φ then ψ”, in the sense that if it would turn out that ¬φ, we would know that ψ. This is the interpretation we have in mind when we know that at least one of φ and ψ is true, but we don’t know which one. We don’t know whether someone prefers ‘Zhortep IV’ or ‘having bad taste’ and we’re trying to figure it out, so if it turns out it’s not the first, it must be the second.
In the proof of preference explosion, we infer φ ∨ ψ in the first sense (we know which one), but we need the second sense to perform the disjunctive syllogism (we don’t know). (For more on this see the work of philosopher Stephen Read).
This distinction between the different interpretations of a disjunction is not something that is captured in classical logic, but it might be something we want to capture. Maybe the material conditionals in classical logic just don’t capture the semantics of intuitive conditionals.
In conclusion: While liking both 'Zhortep IV' and 'Land of the Whirlpool' is obviously an internal contradiction, we can account for this by eschewing a classical preference logic and embracing a paraconsistent preference logic.
@@Xob_Driesestig I'm gonna have to read this a few times before I even come close to understanding it, but pinning this for now, because I massively respect you putting so much effort into a comment on a really dumb video.
@@genericallyentertaining This is self-plagiarized from my earlier work on paraconsistent preferences (and turned into a high effort shitpost). It becomes easier to understand if you replace "want to have bad taste" with anything else (e.g. "want to kick a puppy") because the point is you can drop in any preference. Also ignore "(and thus that I want to read Land of the Whirlpool)" and the conclusion, those were just jokes.
Otherwise this does work as a model to have inconsistent preferences (which we sometimes have), while not becoming completely illogical.
However, a much simpler model would be to just say that our unified "self" is an illusion and we are really multiple agents that sometimes have conflicting preferences (sometimes experienced as different voices in your head). We currently don't really have a solid grasp of what "agents" or "inner voices" are, but given the existence of things like 'Dissociative identity disorder', it's clear that this is at least part of the picture. Still, if that, for whatever reason, falls through or can explain only part, but not all, of our internal preference contradictions, then maybe paraconsistent preferences are a good backup-theory.
You had me until I actually had to resort to reading logic symbology.
I refuse.
@@Xob_DriesestigHow could a variety of impulses even be contradictory to a unified self
@@robinrehlinghaus1944 They don't have to be, e.g. if I have an impulse to scratch my bum *and* an impulse to tap my foot, then they are not contradictory and I can do both. However they *can* be contradictory e.g. I have a desire to tap my foot and not tap my foot.
I like Generic Entertainment as well as Man Carrying Thing.
Impossible
Sorry, but you can only pick one.
Generic Man Carrying Entertainment Thing is my favorite youtuber
Man carrying Generic Entertainment
I like when plankton farted and then drank salted water
The person on the other end of the phone is the real hero.
I have very patient acquaintances.
I thought that person would chime in on the debate.
Trying to explain to people that you can empathise with the villains and anti-heroes without sympathising with them and their ideologies feels exactly like this.
Omfg, right? XD
My favorite space marines are the nightlords, and they are SCUM.
Empathy seems like a subset of sympathy though. It's a bit like emulation and simulation
Pretty much sums up how I think of the main character in Gushing Over Magical Girls.
But sympathy isn't a bad thing too? Just because I sympathise with villains doesn't mean I'd agree with them or their ideologies.
Wait until somebody tells him that it's possible to think that both the Land of the Whirlpool and Zhortep IV suck.
That’s just logically equivalent to liking an arbitrary third book series, no contradictions there.
“Where does your hubris end and the laws of physics begin?” is unironically a hard line.
"I'm multifandom, which means I like multiple things"
Statements dreamed up by the utterly deranged.
The other day I went to the bookstore and bought a philosophy book, a fantasy book and a slice of life manga.
I feel like the internet would have a stroke upon hearing that at this point.
As the internet, I can stroke I just had a confirm. * THUD *
Oh, I suppose you are now a literary fascist, huh?
@@Pokefan_64 not *THUDS*😂😭
I'm going to be real, there are a number of slice of life mangas that contain the other two genres.
@@The_Blazelighter please name a few. I need more in my TBR pile.
I like both Ingrid Bergman and Ingmar Bergman.
Of course you do. They're the same person.
So you stand for nothing! 😂 Jk.
But what about Indrid Cold?
"its like im hearing sounds but theyre being held up in Wernicke's area for questioning" had me hollering LMAO
as a psychology enthusiast, ditto, i'm gonna be using that one all the time
I have to be the logic nerd and point at that the Law of the Excluded Middle is actually the law that says that either a statement or its negation must be true, whereas the law referred to in the video is actually the Law of Non-Contradiction. It's okay, though, I like both laws.
@@plasmaballin Ugh, i knew i should have taken two seconds to double-check this. Thanks!
@@genericallyentertainingI mean I sort of assumed that was your internet-people-stand-in character's mistake, since no self-respecting Fandom Menace would ever spend two seconds possibly finding out they were wrong.
I don’t understand a word you’re saying. How can you like both laws at the same time?
And I hate both laws
Yeah. Incidentally, there are some systems where it doesn't apply. Fuzzy logic is intended to deal with statements like "Person X is bald" which can have truth values somewhere in between True and False.
"What's the negation of the statement _I like Zortep IV?"_
It would be _I don't like Zortep IV_
"Exactly! See, that statement is homologous to you saying that you like The Land of the Whirlpool!"
It sounds so unrealistic, but I've had almost this exact exchange on the internet
It can be really annoying when it comes to soft VS hard magic system discussion.
People act as if one must be better than the other one and you can't like both.
Both serve completely different purposes.
Soft is a tool for the writer to bring mystery and wonder to the story, while hard is a tool for characters to solve problems and for readers to understand how those problems are solved.
The soft vs. hard magic debate is as silly to me as it would be if people said you couldn't like French fries AND ice cream. They're both delicious. Especially together.
@@ScadrianGhostblood 😊… and to think, WICKA is represented by a three pointed weaving that loops onto itself, offering a fourth position- it’s center. 🧘 All working together.
It's not a the tool that matters but how you use it. Creating satisfying soft magic systems requires completely different skills than creating satisfying hard magic systems. Neither automatically give you a successful story or world but both feel unsatisfying in different ways when done badly.
@@Draugo definitely agree.
I have seen some people on internet creating complex hard magic systems just because they think complexity makes them better and regardless of their role and placement in a story.
That's why I roll my eyes every time I see someone make their elemental magic system graph with as much elements as possible just because.
@@ScadrianGhostblood Brings to mind those ultimate rock paper scissors charts
I have never understood less references in English in my whole life.
Same, i'm so confused
@@uanamenezes7689 It's a lot of philosophy jargon. If you take a couple classes at a uni you'll understand most of the references he makes when he goes on the long rant in the middle
yeah he should've added books in the title
Its not about the references so shouldn't matter
This is basically a hardcore Tolkien fan when you say you like literally any other fantasy book
I guess I've never met a hardcore Tolkien fan.
@@teslainvestah5003 Count yourself lucky.
People that say they like both the books and Peter Jackson movies are not true fans of the books. The scum of the Earth!
Or Malazan.
You have now @@teslainvestah5003
decadently suckling on a wreath of white grapes: I consider myself a ‘multi-fandom enjoyer’
So you hate purple grapes? /ref
Interesting things can come out of combining fandoms, recently I saw someone combining cult of the lamb with animal crossing
@@realdragon Dawg that sort of thing is so fun to do
I'm literally making a Rain World parody of the Persona 5 Royal cover art where all the phantom thieves are slugcats and the velvet room attendants are LttM and 5P
Ah the wonders of combining interests... wait isn't it a normal thing to like several things like that or am I just very autistic (or just very open about my interests)-
The term multifandom is interesting because I think it actually originated on Tumblr, which is a website that allows you to make up to 99 sideblogs under the same account
So it was common for Tumblr users to make blogs dedicated to one specific fandom or interest, and then make a separate blog dedicated to a separate fandom. That way Tumblr users could follow blogs that catered to their specific interests without seeing posts about completely unrelated shows or books or whatever.
That’s where the term multifandom originated - it referred to BLOGS that posted about multiple subjects, on a website where having specific blogs for specific subjects was the norm.
🤷🏼♀️ SuperWhoLock exists.
Quite ironically, there *are* two sides. ... They're names are "People Who Understand `False Dichotomy' Is A Logical Fallacy" and "People Who Insist You Can't Like More Than One Thing."
*Their
When Star Wars and Star Trek fans meet.
Which is funny because the only similarities they share is that they are often in space and have the word star in their names. Its like if Dragon Ball Z fans had a feud with House of Dragons fans.
@@deadlypandaghost Literally everything is in space
@@deadlypandaghost Imagine Game of Thrones and Squid Game.
@@smorrow Oh my god, we've got a genuis here
@@deadlypandaghostI used to enjoy Lord of the Rings until I read Lord of the Flies.
Yesterday I saw two people from the same fandom cursing each-other’s family lines over differing canons. And mind you, nothing’s really changed about the base canon, the differences were architectural and otherwise minor. The biggest change, story-wise, is that one lacks a “future” story.
This is why I don't talk about anything online related to my interests
You... like thingS? As in PLURAL??? 😱
The idea of this video is easily applicable to more than just interests.
And the more serious the context is, the more infuriating this whole idea gets.
“Take a side”? Both sides suck, but I can’t criticize nor sympathize with either, or heavens forbid, BOTH! This matter hits me on a personal level for reasons i won’t elaborate further on.
Honestly I can feel your anger through the screen,and I relate to it on such a personal level-
@@claudius3359 i can also feel anger behind the screen. The internet can be mostly stupid. you can prefer to not pick one, or to like both.
The internet likes to make up drama
"OH YOU LIKE SANDERSON? YOU SHOULD TRY A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE IT'S THE REAL EPIC FANTASY"
I HAVE. I have read it. I liked it. Done.
I feel like this video is metaphor for something...
It’s ok to like more than one thing on the internet you just have to make a tier list so that everyone knows definitively what you like more and what you think is irredeemable trash
I feel like the internet would have a stroke due to my many interests: SCP, Space, Outer Wilds, Speculative Biology, Thrive, Lego, Minecraft, Gravity Falls, The Owl House, Amphibia, Chemistry, Quantum Physics, and Percy Jackson
And that’s just the stuff I could think of off the top of my head
Curse you for liking *Percy Jackson?!* Clearly, *The Loud House* is a good piece of literature!
@@-landon931 _I fear what you’re referring to_
@@ack7 The gall!
When Harry Potter fan doesn't understand the existence of other books
Oh, I get it. You mean like, HP fanfiction. Or like, foreign translations of HP books.
Good observation! Thank god this only applies to media consumption and NOT HOW WE FRAME NATIONAL AND GLOBAL POLITICAL ISSUES
Considering the author of Zhortep IV is actually *writing* things and we'll actually get an END to that story, I think it's pretty obvious it's much better than Land of the Whirpool. In fact, i'm pretty sure I'm morally superior for saying so.
Hey, the author of TLOTW said the last book should come out any decade now.
I´m so happy I found Generic Entertainment.
It opened my eyes to the absolute trash content Man Carrying Thing had been feeding me
😅this is the ultimate metaphor for THE WHOLE WORLD right now … and the back of my mind sometimes … Fantastic Stuff 👏
For real 😂
Getting held up in Wernicke's area for questioning is an underrated line haha
Dude your content is just top tier nerd comedy! love it!
"It's like i'm hearing sounds and they're getting held up in Wernicke's area for questioning" is such a banger of a line. Subscribed!
Bottomline: An interest or a fandom is not a substitution for a personality.
As a bisexual man, this speaks to me.
🤣🤣🤣
That's actually a really good point!! XD I haven't experienced it myself, thankfully, but apparently some people do get really weird when confronted with the existence of bisexuals.
No! Pick one!😤
@@callnight1441 I shan't
Strange... never seen y' all in the LG TQ+ community 🤔
Actually the law of excluded middle says that for each statement, either it or its negation must be true. It's always a theorem that for each statement, it's not the case that it and its negation are true.
This is exactly how I feel as a lifelong Magic and Pokemon player who's recently become interested in yugioh
I'm upset that Zhortep IV isn't real, that premise sounds awesome
Roommate spontaneously combusts into ashes the second he sees a crossover or encounters the "Superwholock of Tumblr"
😳 I’ve just submitted this video for Noble Prize consideration.
You are a genius! 🤝 thank you.
When my epilepsy hits, words do indeed get held up in Wernicke's area for questioning
When you don't treat my opinion as the objective, morally correct fact (I think the Original Star Wars films are better)
than the Sequels?
Yes, that is indeed an objective fact. Might as well be part of physics.
personally I think that Rouge One is better then the Original Star Wars films
Do you mean the prequels or original trilogy? I'd assume original trilogy but it's such a basic opinion that it leaves your statement ambiguous.
If you don't count the Holiday Special, Caravan of Courage & Battle of Endor as original films your opinion is objectively wrong.
I’ve never seen Star Wars. What about Dogs In Space? It’s on Netflix.
The things i like i just try and guide other people to so they have a chance to enjoy it, thankfully this video highlights my mistake.
As a fan of both DC and Marvel Comics, yes.
Honestly want to watch you writing these scripts LMAO how do you remember all of these words
If only there was a way to write it down-
I always end up regretting the things I wrote in my scripts when I have to actually say them. One of these days I'll make a video without a bunch of monolouging.
Patiently waiting for my part.
Just you wait until you see a story with more than one interesting/sucky element in it. Or, or, even more crazy: a fanfiction crossover of two or more existing stories
It's like those youtube comments that're all "I thought this film analyst made great points and had a compelling perspective. But then he said he enjoyed this one movie, and I know realize everything he says is and always was worthless."
I like a person that pronounces Ingmar Bergman's name in a way I've never heard before. I'm going to presume that it is the correct pronunciation.
At least all the authors, publishers, producers and creators love the same one thing....money.
i love not being homeless and not starving
3:03 lovecraft if he was less racist
Bro went slippery slope on fandom stacking
I thought this was going to be about how youtube gets confused if you have more than one interest and doesnt know what to recommend.
How it feels to be intrested in both analytic and continental philosophy...
so true, i feel like crap whenever i nap or try to sleep when im not tired
In 1915 Bertran Russel and Alfred Whitehead rearranged traditional axiomatic system and invented third-order logic to finally prove that it is logically impossible to like "the land of the whirlpool" and "zortap 4" at the same time. Just like it is logically impossible consider "it's not real hard sci-fi" and "plankton farts and dies" hilarious simultaneously. Stop denying objective reality and pick a side
I'm pretty sure I used that exact same open source whirlpool clip in a video a couple of years ago. I see that we're whirlpool buddies. Good to know.
I move that we make some sort of annual day to celebrate People Who Like More Than One Thing... maybe about a fortnight from now?
i fell into this trap once. left the brony fandom for no other reason than that i was becoming obsessed with pokémon.
How it felt to enjoy both Pokemon and Digimon in the early 00s.
Wait… did I just hear someone say… PORTAL FANTASY! Music to my eeeeeaaaarrrsssss!
My favourite bit wasn't the very real discussion of current issues in discourse, but how your mom-n-pop pizza place was so keen to talk about the greats of holywood whilst you were placing the order
Dang now I want to read both of these books
That Bergman joke hit waaaaaay too close to home
-Anna
Reverse astrology sounds really cool though
Liking kdrama and anime at the same time:
Light is both a partial and a wave
"I like the color red"
"Alright"
"I bought this green hoodie because it looks nice"
"LISTEN HERE YOU LITTL-"
The beginning of this is too relatable
I was like "damn he looks sooo young here, probably has to be at least two years old video" AND IT'S TWO WEEKS AGOO. Good video:))) 👍🏼
Wait until he meets the guy who insists you have to like all the (trending) things.
If he's this obsessed about the hegemony of the land of the whirlpools, I think we should get him to try Uzumaki and just see what happens.
I liked this video, but only this video.
Oh my gosh! The opening conversation. I thought that was just me.
I didn’t feel like posting this comment
Then why you post it?
Neither did I. I'm glad that you posted it instead.
What a brat! There he has someone who's willing to talk to him about a book he likes, and all he wants to do is complain that his phone call got interrupted! Does he not understand the value of this precious opportunity!?
I was so worried for the fictional person on the phone
this guy looks like neil cicieriga if he was born today
I totally get the Ingrid/Ingmar/Ingrid Bergman confusion.
Me when The Big 3 of Shonen Jump
Man, why are you like this? Funny video and all but I was mainly hyped to read Land of the Whirlpool, just to find out it does not exist! This was supposed to be 21st century punk guys watches funny video core learns about cool new book series, not 21s century punk guy gets his hopes up core looks like a fool in the end!
After reading this comment section, I was planning on looking up both books, since both sounded interesting from the tiny bit in this video, so it's disappointing to hear they aren't real. Thank you for saving me time looking them up though.
@@mustacheman529well....you could write it?
@langreeves6419 I suppose I could, I've always wanted to write a book. Not sure I have the time or dedication to do it though.
Kinda wanna read Zortep 4 now
The Land of the Whirlpool question
Dude wearing the dark tshirt is right. Buttoned shirt dude needs to calm down and only like one thing, this man is beholden to no principles!
its that "I have friends, I play ___, Im mentally stable.*
I thought this was Man carrying something
*Likes Land of The Whirlpool.*
"I now see with eyes unclouded by hate."
*Goes to Twitter to harass anyone who likes anything other than Land of The Whirlpool.
I want to be there listening to Carter when Riley orders a pizza with pineapple on it.
This is what twitter feels like.
Nice
I like Foucault and Karl Popper.
Da Vinci liked more than one thing at once, be like Da Vinci.
“What?!” 🤣
How did I end up here?
This is a win in my book 😄
lmaoo the bit at 2:40 was so intensee
Up next: How the internet acts if you express nuanced like and dislike about one thing
Google need to classifie people using label. By having two different ones confused the AI master mind
Me who likes Murder Drones, TADC, Metarunner, and also Stranger Things, The Martian, DND, Harry Potter, Hunger Games, and His Dark Materials, and then finally there’s Minecraft, Undertale, DELTARUNE, and Doors.
How dare you like Minecraft? Roblox is enjoyable! I DEMAND that you hate Minecraft and love Roblox from now kn.
@@-landon931 I mentioned a Roblox game
@@JuicyBurger29 IMPOSSIBLE!! YOU CAN ONLY LIKE MINECRAFT OR ROBLOX, NOT BOTH!!! You're confusing me.. which side are you on?
@@-landon931 THE MURICAN SIDE!
Americans!!
_Americanize_
RAAAHHHHHHH 🛢️🛢️🦅🦅🍔🍔🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🛢️🛢️🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🍔🍔🇺🇸🛢️🛢️🦅🦅🇺🇸🍔🍔🍔🇺🇸🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🇺🇸
@@JuicyBurger29 How dare you like America when Germany isn't a necessarily bad country? You hate Germany!
Me as a kpop fan... multi(fan) is basically dirty word at this point
I really enjoyed those flat whats. :D
0:27 Cool reference to the book recommendation video.