CNC Ported vs OEM Power Stroke Heads
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- Will has far too much fun playing with the ports on the PDD Stage 1 Ford 6.0L Power Stroke head. But will his handy work pay off in the end? Follow along to see what Will learns in this flow testing.
Head over to the shop to find upgraded heads for your 6.0L Power Stroke diesel and any other parts you need:
Power Stroke Heads:
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Power Driven Diesel is a specialty performance shop engaged in the engineering and development of high performance turbo diesel technologies.
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Stage 1 CNC 20mm powerdrivendiesel.com/product... - Авто та транспорт
I love the 6.0 content.
Me too!
I’m interested in seeing what kind of numbers you’d put out on the dyno with some minor modifications. Love the 6.0 content !
Kinda like breathin through mask too
Heads up, that head to head pun was ahead of it’s time
I love this comment!
Love these kinds of videos! Keep them coming! Would be cool to see what changes in flow generate on the dyno
That's the plan!
Would love to see egt numbers before and after head swap.
I love seeing you get excited about a FORD head 😃 man i need a set!
Thanks enjoyed the content of your video. Everybody bad mouths the 6.0. Yes they do have their problems. My experience has been since having had one from 2006 is that there are very few people that know how to work on them and do it right. Including the Ford dealers.
Keep the 6 liter content coming. What head castings are you using, stock, updated aftermarket? After watching this video, I’m seriously considering purchasing your heads over Kill Devil’s. I tow heavy and am constantly looking for more ways to get more torque out of the ole girl. Keep the 6-0 content coming. I love what you guys are doing with these engines. God bless.
We are using updated aftermarket casting.
I took airflow class using an older but same bench. What we learned is that a radius improves airflow numbers so using the green modeling clay is improving the CFM numbers slightly. That being said, using it for both stock and ported is a fair comparison.
Also anything much over .600" of valve lift is kind of pointless as the valve is fully open and you will not see any or hardly any gain in flow.
great video though. keep up the content!
Look forward to a Dyno of these 👍
Now can you test a Kill Devil Diesel head?
Kill devil I believe are the best. I own a set of KDD iron heads myself. Well worth the money and the wait
We have a set of kdd iron heads here. We have flowed them but they are not ported. Obviously the ported head outflows the kdd non ported head. We could do a stock kdd vs stock 6.0?
@@pddofficial I think that’s more fair. Thanks for considering!
@@pddofficial stock vs KDD flow test would be great!
Kdd icon aluminum head vs your ported.
Awesome job will i really love the tec videos so interesting doing real world testing although the real test is back to back dino test i know that would be a lot of work but it would really show real world numbers 👍
As always take care stay safe and may God bless you 🙋♂️ 🇬🇧
More to come!
I might have to try those
Thanks for the info will
Shoot might have convinced me to go PDD now
I would love to see what they can do with the 7.3
Awesome stuff.
Will, Intersmashable designed the 6.0, not Ford. Semantics yes.
7.3 heads next?
do a 7.3 next please
the real question is "How will high flow heads affect the wookie snort?"
Lol!
Good gains
I have no interest in lifting heads off of a healthy engine but videos like this make me say.... maybe. Lol. Great work guys
Glad it got you thinking!
I know what you mean. These heads were not available when I did my build but I'm itching to put a set on it now
I would like to see increments in lift by 50 to get a better and more informed graph
Are you guys going to do a pre and post mod dyno run? I'm just curious because i've heard of guys getting massive flow numbers but it not equating much because they lose all of their port velocity. This experience relates to smaller engines, curious if this is even an issue on a lower revving larger bore diesel engine. Cool video!
It most certainly is, another important factor is fuel swirl on the intake side.
Cameron there is no fuel swirl on the intake side on a diesel, but halvorsonmx has a good point. On n/a gas engines ported heads have high rpm gain but lose in lower rpm. I would really like to see the gains and at what rpm on the dyno
U should do a comparison on a 7.3 head .
Awesome
We think so too!
I'd like to see some dyno numbers throughout the rpm rang not just max power and torque as well as real world numbers including exhaust temps. The small exhaust valves as well as cam design were to lower egt in order to lower NOX output so I'm curious how porting effects exhaust temp
The stock head to ported head dyno testing will come soon.
@@pddofficial that will be very interesting. Egt comparison is also a big deal but I'm very interested in the power difference
One thing 1 miss : SWIRL meter.
Been flowing diesel heads for 22 years.
If flow was the only concern everybody would be doing it. What I do to intake flow depends on : application , rpm used,amount of boost, nozzle holes diameter , duration of injection , intake valve lift , type of diesel .
Increasing intake flow on diesel can be done the easy way loosing almost all swirl. Or the hard way : increasing flow WITH the same or even more swirl.
Would you like to see a follow up video with swirl numbers? We have the capability to measure swirl... IE we have a swirl meter.
@@pddofficial that would be nice to see. I work solely on 70" testpressure. As in my opinion that resambles better the reality. Of course I give clients the numbers @28" as otherwise inpossible to compare.
@@pddofficial I have a Quadrant Scientific Flowlab 1400 with home made honeycomb swirl torque meter. Esspecially the cylinderheads of large truckpull engines create a tornado like swirl meter destroying swirl...😁💪
How does that translate into HP & TQ numbers at those velocities?
Do the heads have the steel valve guides still or upgraded valve guides?
What about kill devil diesel icon heads?
At least the stock head simply Stalls in the higher lift range and is able to maintain without going into Reversion.
I had ordered valve retainers for a 6.0 from yall and never got them.
Has any body ever tried redesigning a 6.0 head from scratch to allow for the same size exhaust and intake?
Not that I know of
I’m the 666th viewer ,I know the 6.0 is cursed but daaaamn. I’ll stick with my rock solid 12 valve that will never die.
Ha ha
150 hp
Are these a oem hear that your porting or are they after market head. If so have the prone cracking problem areas like the fuel Injector seat and the valve seat area, have they been addressed
yes these are aftermarket heads and these areas have been addressed
👍💪
Are you yall ready to send me a fire ringed Cummins head that I can beat on yet lol? I hate pushing coolant getting old plus I've already blowed 2 radiator hoses and expanded my mishimoto radiator.
What about 7.3 heads?
So correct me if I'm wrong but your stage 1 12 valve head flows 203 cfm per hole on the exhaust this flows 157 so 157×8=1256 203×6=1218! Im gonna take that as a huge win for the 6.0🤘
Yes the 6.0 flow pretty good
At what turbo/injector size do you benefit from these flow improvements?
Does it affect low end torque / towing?
Increased flow will help out in most any situation.
With the exhaust flowing better it will spool the turbo even quicker with obviously helps with low end torque
The short answer: Even stock trucks will see a benefit with ported heads throughout the RPM range. Low-end torque, mid-range towing power/EGT control, and top end power will increase. A real-world example would be the difference you see in spool-up, power, and EGT control on a hot sunny afternoon vs a cool fall morning. The small change in air density from hot summer to cool fall is enough for most drivers to feel.
The long answer: The great thing about diesel fueled engines is they continue to make more power with a set amount of fuel all the way till about 30:1 AFR. So although the laboratory perfect air mix for diesel "Stoic" is about 14.5:1, the visible smoke threshold is around 18.5:1 to 22:1 and that seems to be where most OEM vehicles are tuned. So if you you get more airflow into the engine, even in a stock application, it will be more efficient and make more power until you hit the high 20's to 30:1 Air Fuel Ratio at which point you won't see any more power gain from added airflow.
Are these remaned or are you casting your own
Aluminum or iron?
They cast and new sourced heads
Try the new icon heads
I hear they are kinda tough to get right now, do you have a set we could throw on the flow bench, maybe like a product review?
Does the piston pushing the exhaust out have anything to do with the smaller exhaust valves? do they need to be so much bigger with that kind of force pushing the exhaust through the valves? Devil's advocate. I could be completely wrong.
Most naturally aspirated engines are designed with exhaust ports that flow 80% of the intake side.
Stop having fun! Lol
Are those springs from a rain bird sprinkler
Local hardware store... gotta keep the springs light enough to open with a dial indicator but just heavy enough they don't suck open on the flow bench....
Do you guys fire ring your 6.0 heads too?
yes
We currently offer o-rings on our 6.0 heads. We are going to be testing fire ring setups soon. If we have similar results like we do with the Cummins then we will offer them a well.
What would cause an 01 2500 Cummins to have the transmission not lockup if you put a new one in and have to put a lockout switch on I bought the truck but want to fix this problem so I can take the lockout switch off
Bought from a guy that out a new transmission in but it wouldn't lock up so he put a lockout switch on
Usually a bad throttle position sensor is the first place to check for a no-lockup problem. Second would be to connect a scanner and make sure the transmission is getting a proper temperature reading on the PCM side. Use any brand of scanner and see if it thinks the transmission is in the normal operating range of 120 to 220*F. If the wrong model year of pressure transducer/temp sensor is used (96-99 sensor in a 00+ model truck, the PCM will think the governor pressure and temp are out of spec and it will not lockup.
Also 32 valves instead of 24...
Stock 6.0 camshaft
106 LSA
167 degree intake
176 degree exhaust
.315 intake lift
.325 exhaust lift
is that cam or valve lift?
@@Rx7man actual valve lift
@@Bacongrease00 oof tiny
@@austindoud273 yeah they aren’t very aggressive. Internationals strategy was to run high drive pressure in the hot side to be able to shove exhaust through the EGR into the intake stream. A small camshaft helps
Anyone know what the 03 cam specs are???
So is this why the 6.7 power stroke runs backwards from normal?
The reverse flow 6.7 is to consolidate the exhaust flow into the turbo. The same reason bmw did it ages ago.
So correct me if I am wrong, ideally, shouldn't the intake and exhaust cfm ideally be equal? As to why Ford (or International) designed the valves so much smaller on the exhaust side.... uh why?
Likely To keep heat and velocity
Think about it. Engine design has atmospheric pressure on the intake side, and expanding gasses on the exhaust. Lot more push through the exhaust. Adding boost just adds more cylinder pressure, which adds even more push out of the exhaust. So no, they don't need to be equal.
Have you ever worked on any engine? The intake valves are almost always bigger than exhaust. Across the board gas or diesel.
@@Bacongrease00 so no, not a mechanic but you would think air in should = air out for best flow otherwise you are bottlenecking at the exhaust. I suppose the exception to what you're saying is the Cummins valves which are virtually equal based on the beginning of this video.
@@Jim_Lawrence got it.thank you for the explanation.
I recently learned about swirl and squash, is that real or real bs?
Swirl is a design criteria for sure, it seemed to become more prevalent as emissions standards increased. Both Cummins and International built swirl ramps into the intake ports to cause swirl, the ramps definitely do not increase flow. On these 6.0 heads, its possibly to pick up more intake flow if the swirl ramp is entirely removed via ported, but it will hurt the low speed performance if all the swirl is removed.
Squash AKA quench is a big deal on naturally aspirated gasoline/alcohol fueled engines because it helps fight detonation and makes more power as the air charge is forced out of the quench area into the chamber area vs a piston/head combination without quench AKA open chamber.
On forced induction, quench is usually a starting point or source of detonation so it is usually removed for higher performance boosted applications.
These diesel engines, however, do not inject fuel into the air stream on the intake stroke so detonation is normally not a concern. At the highest levels of diesel performance, modest gains have been found adding quench or minimizing the amount of chamber volume outside the fuel bowl so that the maximum amount of the air charge ends up in the bowl where the injected fuel is mixed. So in essence, the top outer rim of the piston is held closely to the cylinder head to minimize the "dead air" outside of the centered bowl.
@@pddofficial 🤷♂️ umm yup… 🤣 so in other words don’t try to port my own stuff without experience
If a 5.6 24v injector slightly fits, ok imagine a injector cup made to fit that 24v injector, replace the Hpop with a HPFP and replace the oil rails with fuel rails? 🤔🤔
That's exactly where my brain went lol!
@@JaegerWrenching lmao fr itd be interesting as hell to see though 🤔
That would be interesting to see if that would even work
What’s the best HPOP for a 6.0? I’m not trying to blow up my truck with the tune I have lol
What year?
@@pddofficial 2007
@@pddofficial is there another way I can message you??
@@morgenheath2520 we have many ways for you to contact us! Instagram, Facebook, email, phone call, text. Visit our website and hit the "contact us" at the bottom to see all your options.
I would commit horrific crimes to have a flow bench, I worked my Cummins head by hand and have no idea what its flow numbers are. The ports should be uniform enough since dimensionally they are identical, but knowing how much flow my head can put out would be really helpful.
I did the same on my 12V head, along with a stage 3 colt cam it really changed the 2500+ RPM efficiency, before you could tell it was working just to turn then engine that fast and after you could happily cruise at those revs and it just felt free. On the intake I got rid of casting flash and radiused the bowls, didn't do anything from the plenum side, on the exhaust i had better access and did more work, got rid of all the flat walls around the valve guides and such, blended things, I also deshrouded the valves in the combustion chamber. Sure would like to know what the numbers are, and how close they are cylinder to cylinder
Wish someone would do flow bench rentals or flow bench days like they used to have dyno days! So much knowledge can be gained from just simply a few guys and a machine with a flat rate charge. Hint hints lol
@@mustangdemon87 That would be incredible, the place I went to school used to have one that we could use but they stopped offering their high performance program because the instructor retired, it was his bench from his former speed shop so it went with him.
@@Rx7man sounds like we did pretty similar work to our heads, majority of my work was on the exhaust as well. I'm doing a 188/220 as well which is why I figured I might as well let the head breath easy, glad to hear about the improvement above 2.5k, that's where I spend the majority of the time in my truck. I'm hoping my balance is good, I measured and checked each port as I went so they should be relatively uniformish
You can see how much Will likes flowing things on the bench, I'll bet it wouldn't be hard to convince him to flow something for you.
Pretend like anyone watching this channel running a marathon 😁
What's the chances that Will has ever or will ever run a marathon...
@@pddofficial Something I would pay good money to watch lol. Sorry Will you are a rock star, but it would be funny.
Is that a ported stock head?
It is a new aftermarket head that is ported
Either the engineers or bean counters really messed up with the 6.0 Powerstroke. I truly believe an engine could be built that made great power, got good mileage, had low emissions and was reliable if the bean counters were locked out. However the manufacturers made a good product that lasted a while they would have to wait to make more money and we can't have that. The CEO's need 5 vacations mansions and their 100+ foot yachts.
The 6.0s bottom end is a work of art, the engineer must of handed it off to a toddler to design the cylinder heads tho. sTrEtCh tO yEiLd bOlTs wIlL hOlD tHe BoOst.
@@cameronsanburn9768 Yeah the engineers who actually understand engines must have lost their minds when that decision was made. If I had been part of that design team I wouldn't admit it under torture.
And then put an aftermarket
non-EGR profile camshaft in it......
Flow is important but what’s not captured is swirl. Swirl is important for efficient and clean combustion. The aftermarket cams are going to be .350-.450 lift range. Duration is going to be 168-210 intake and 170-220 exhaust. I’m not a huge fan of CFM numbers being the be all end all. If you took those shitty numbers and applied them to a naturally aspirated gas engine it would struggle to make 300hp. But these same stock heads on a 6.0 have made easily upwards of 600+ whp. How is that? Forced Induction. The flow bench is sucking at the standard -28 inches. Not really representing what’s happening with forced induction. Not saying there isn’t a benefit to a ported 6.0 head but it’s not really necessary unless your going for big power 600hp minimum. Stock turbo doesn’t really have enough flow to capitalize on these gains. Better off just doing a KC turbo stage 2/3 and getting some big fuel sticks.
I really doubt the people putting these heads on are going to be running the stock turbo, and gains anywhere are going to be helpful, even with the stock turbo it'll make less pressure to flow that air which means less heat into the intercooler which means cooler air for the radiator..
@@Rx7man like I said there is gains but your money is better spent on turbo and fuel system. It’s been proven in the 6.0 community thousands of times. Kill devil diesel has a nice head for these engines.
Do people actually spend their retirement money on these 6.0?
They might now that they have some "reliable" parts to put them back together with! Lol
No hate here those ford's kept my shop in business for quite a few years
@@mustangdemon87 , these Ford’s kept bringing big bonuses to credit card executives. Extended warranty companies made millions. I was smart enough not to even consider knowing their design. I learn from other peoples mistakes, it’s cheaper.
@@mustangdemon87 fords been top selling for like 8 years now, of course theres gonna be alot more in the shop, the more sold the more in the shop
6.0s are reliable if you don't beat the hell out of them. even then you put 500$ studs in a 12k truck and you got a reliable 400k-500k mile truck thats cheaper then any chevy or dodge
@@cs-gj3yf no such thing as 400k miles truck with $500 studs. But you can go ahead and keep convincing yourself and keep bonuses flowing to the studs company.
To bad your installing these heads on the OE block with only 4 headbolts, or studs per cyl. I wouldn't waste my money even with head studs! The stock heads already can blow headgaskets with studs installed!
Small exhaust valves.....like wearing a mask while riding your bicycle on the green belt along the river.....
only when you breathe out🤷♂️
Not a good comparison between a 6.0L and a 5.9L. This makes no sense.
The flow numbers are comparing stock 6.0 to PDD ported 6.0. But to compare valve sizes, we showed that Ford uses a larger intake valve than a similar power level 24v Cummins but uses a much smaller exhaust valve, Will was trying to illustrate that 6.0 stock heads can be great heads will more exhaust flow.
One in every crowd
Sorry, I should have clarified. These two engines have very different cylinder displacements. A Duramax, 6.4L or even 6.7L Ford would be a better comparison.
I hate to be that guy but ford didn’t design this engine, international did
Renult also...puke...
Stop posting ford shit. We don't care. Stick to Dodge Cummins stuff.
Correction you don't care I for one like to see 6.0 content and information
@@Dieselfan1997 No, vast majority don't care.
@@Kahlo69 what makes you say that nothing wrong with exploring different avenues and checking out motors with power potential that aren't as supported as other motors and the fact you took the time to complain is sad that would be me commenting on a cummins or duramax video stating nobody cares when obviously people care bc the video has views and they wouldn't get into a line of motors that people weren't asking for
Your just plain ignorant to the facts! Have you noticed when they do Ford videos there's twice as many people responding in the comment section? I have a 2nd gen cummins, but also enjoy the Ford information.
@@toddscholze6168 Yea because that's all they can afford lol.