I remember that video you're talking about with the guy that rented an S2000 and bashed it I knew it was such crap I've owned an S2000 for nearly seven years pretty much stock car I take it on tons of road trips it is not that slow, the highway is actually where the S2000 belongs it loves the higher RPMs higher speeds, not that uncomfortable of a car either it's actually quite comfortable on road, my girlfriend is extremely picky when it comes to cars and anything else that girls can be picky about and she loves the car and loves going road trips. As a matter of fact in 6th gear doing 70 mph I don't even have to downshift passing a semi uphill car does it with ease!!!!!!
My old f20c made 225/150 with urge header, password jdm intake and 70mm exhaust with tp. I guess this makes more tq and is cheaper but I’d still rather pay more for the f20c. U can buy a brand new f20c2 block from Europe for close to what he said, but I think it’s worth it.
@@BalladeSports I used a PND ECU, kpro v4 and kpower adapter harness for the na Miata. Their adapter came with an OBD2 port so I'm sure that helped emissions read correctly.
Same thing I said in the other longer comment: Take the info for what it is. I addressed there is a smog problem and I do not know if it can pass, or be BARed. And when the day comes you need another F series you’re going to hate the price they are going for. It’s not my job to offer emissions solutions. Plenty of states and other countries do not have smog emissions. AND… we sell globally. Maybe not worth it to you to k swap but look at the entire world of IG RWD cars being K swapped. Older Porsche, BMW, Mini cooper, NSX!
I know this driver 😉 just commenting quickly she def doesn’t drive like a grandma 😂 not track racing but having her fun out there. Lived for the 6,000 rpm vtech and that og setup but with engine age that hasn’t happened in quite a few thousand miles. Great video 🩵 fun to see this Hunny getting her new digs! 🙌🏼
Listen, I’ve had all the Honda series of engines and nothing compares to the K-series. Been in the game since the 90’s. Once you have experienced them all you’ll understand how much better the K is. Each series of engines is great in their own regard. Honda engineers improved with every series. Sorry, that might upset a lot of folks.
F series to me felt like it was a prototype to the K. Then K took off leaving F behind. Points to consider F is better than K, example timing chain. 99.9% never skip teeth. TCT made noise sure but never backed out like K20a/24a tct. Oil pump F series higher gravitation than K20a2/R Stock head flow compared to K, doesn’t mean you can’t port K head but stock to stock much better.
How is the vibration with the mounts your using? I’m assuming you’re using the EMI mounts on this setup. Would there be any plans to make brackets to use oem style mounts?
Vibration is minimal. Great question! Ballade already made mount brackets for oem mounts. Prototype only right now. Be ready to see them for sale from Ballade Sports
@@BalladeSports thank you for the reply I’ll be waiting for the brackets to use oem mounts. I’m ready to be away from the vibrations with the hasport mounts
Here are the design specifications for the F20C1, F22C1, K20A2 and K24A2 F20C1 bore x stroke=87mm x 84mm, Compression Ratio 11.5:1, 240 bhp torque: 152 lb-ft. F22C1 bore x stroke=87mm x 90.7 mm, Compression Ratio 11:1, 240 bhp torque162 lb-ft. K20A2 bore x stroke=86mm x 86 mm, Compression Ratio 11:1, 200 bhp torque 142 lb-ft. K24A2 bore x stroke=87mm x 99 mm, Compression Ratio 10.5 :1, 197 bhp torque166 lb-ft. It sounds like the F20C1 cylinder block had a lot issues which could not be rebuilt with 256K miles on it. I know that Toda Racing makes high-lift camshafts, forged pistons, forged connecting rods and 2.2 stroker kit (87mm x90.7mm) for the F20C1. Toda Racing makes (2) 2.4 stroker kits (87mm x 99mm) and 2.4 Racing stroker kit (87mm x100mm) for the F22C1. There are no USA distributor for Toda Racing parts have to be order from online JDM parts stores. Toda Racing parts for F20C1 and F22C1 engines may not be cheap but they do exist for these engines. F22C1 engine was available in USA and Japan. F20C was available for the rest of the world until S2000 production ended in 2009. A lot of K24A engines are available and it was more cost effective to do K-series swapped for the S2000. I made this post for people to have knowledge about differences between F series and K series. Also, parts available for the F series.
laughed at the gas mileage part - both my AP1s have always got 23-25 mpg and I beat on them.... K24 Element on the other hand is like 16-18 city, 20-21 highway driving like a grandma.
I really like your shop but I must say this did seem more like a sale for the k series than a genuine comparison. I have, in the past, thought about the swap and don't currently have a bone in the fight. The messaging doesn't seem straight up though. All I kept hearing was negatives for F20C/F22C1 and positives for the K24A2. Even the positives for F20C/F22C1 had counters to them right after. At first its stated the K series has lower horsepower than later in the video its dyno'd with more (I am assuming with custom tune?). Another big message was that if it was for daily driver and the person who did the swap was for a daily driver but if you can't smog it that's null and void. There is nothing wrong promoting the sale of the k series just the narrative was a bit all over the place and presented as a direct comparison. If approaching from a comparison standpoint go over specs top down, pricing (including a extra needed to make it work), all services as well. Otherwise just boast the k series (obviously void smog warning), nothing wrong with that.
Take the info for what it is. I addressed there is a smog problem and I do not know if it can pass, or be BARed and gave my opinion. When the day comes you need another F series you’re going to hate the price they are going for. It’s not my job to offer emissions solutions. Plenty of states and other countries do not have smog emissions. AND… we sell globally. Maybe not worth it to you to k swap but look at the entire world of IG RWD cars being K swapped. Older Porsche, BMW, Mini cooper, even NA1/2 NSX! I don’t deny I’m selling / promoting our work for K series swap. It’s a Ballade Bias channel. Every video I make is to promote our products. It’s no secret I’m promoting Ballade on this Channel, that’s what a business channel does.
@@BalladeSports There is nothing wrong with being biased or promoting your products just present it in the beginning. Talk about why you like it and go all in with it. I watch your content for that stuff all the time. I would even trust your "biased" input if you did a true comparison...showed the specs, showed current average costs of each with examples, tallied up all the costs with adapter kits and labor to finish them up, even showed cost of aftermarket parts, availability of parts, gains of aftermarket parts, etc. You have the knowledge and experience to present it. My only point of the smog was that it can't be a daily driver if you can't smog it. We all know that. As for the race, yes it shows it has more torque and that car, you dyno tuned, had more hp but you didn't share what the tune was or why this had more hp compared to your early statements that stock for stock the k series are lower than the F series. Could be as simple as "it took us this little amount of time, money and effort and we were able to get better than a stock F series. This is what we did...". Nothing wrong with that. I sense the excitement in your efforts and I know when you get something done you want to show it off while you can (you got to get the car back to the person) but just didn't seem fully thought out.
A lot of the videos are on the fly. I have a full business to run and I do my own UA-cam, editing, and filming. I’m not a full blast content creator. Sorry it’s not your standard. I’ll take your criticism as constructive though. I guess just take it for what it is. Maybe I’ll do better the next time in your eyes.
I agree with what you said. But just wanted to add, as long as he pointed out the pros and cons with the customer in regards to doing the swap and passing emissions, and she went with it, then it's on her. But if she wasn't aware of how the swap will affect her emissions status, then that sucks for her because she's going to have to fork time and money to get it bar'd.
I know they gotta make a sale for the K24 and during the race notice they put a fat guy in the stock S2k, that is funny 😁 That lady owner obviously didn't maintain her F20 engine too well.
You should be ashamed for your comment. Body shaming a member of our staff!! Mickey Hartsell you better hope you never run into our guy Vic because you won’t be talking like that in front of him. 6”2 former football player. We are very offended with your comment. I think you need to apologize publicly.
Been thinking about this forna while i came across a s2000 shell with everything besides the seats, engine and fenders. I have an 06 tsx that i am going to be swaping the k24a2 . What is the kit I need going for currently?
Hello, I covered the ECU being Kpro K series Honda ECU. The spoiler is our own Ballade S2000 Spoiler: balladesports.com/products/ballade-sports-00-09-s2000-rear-trunk-spoiler?_pos=1&_sid=b74f47c6c&_ss=r
@@BalladeSports Things are so strict and complicated in cali. I think emissions controls basically have to match the donor car. I don't think you can mix and match stuff from different chassis. The change from transverse to longitudinal mount might make it impossible.
We are in Cali. We know exactly how hard it is. Everyone still finds a way if they want it bad enough those of us I love modding our cars, I’m not gonna let bureaucratic state stop us from doing what we want to do with our property
After having a k24 for years and now a hi comp k24 theres a few reasons why i prefer the f series F series is better on fuel.. alot better. F series is smooth has no vibration issues that realy takes the fun out of the k series. Toda spec f22 will make very similar power to a k24 high comp. Feels alot nicer to drive. And cost is similar. But the f22 is a fraction slower down to the power curve. 1mph from 80 to 130mph F20 has bags more character. Im still currently k24 hi comp but possibly going back after this year. Will probably be slower on the track. But i could do alot more trackdays and have fun doing them as the f series is also more reliable! This is real world experience ive had compared to my own s2000s and a group of friend's. The car is also built to a high standard and been through alot of parts to get it to try and drive as nice as a f series. Also been through alot of gearboxes and clutches due to vibrations. This car is driven hard on tracl and occasionally driven on the road. Just bare in mind it isnt a maintenance free swap of you drive it with enthusiasm.
@@BalladeSports I'm not sure, but CA is also trying even harder to crack down on "hot smog". I just wish there weren't that many restrictions in CA, we pretty much can't even put an intake in a car, let alone an engine swap.
256k mile car BRO, S2000s are 20 plus years old. Our job was to perform the swap. Refurbishing everything in the car is not part of our mandate. We were not commissioned to do anything with the radiator. Hence it was left stock and as is.
I remember that video you're talking about with the guy that rented an S2000 and bashed it I knew it was such crap I've owned an S2000 for nearly seven years pretty much stock car I take it on tons of road trips it is not that slow, the highway is actually where the S2000 belongs it loves the higher RPMs higher speeds, not that uncomfortable of a car either it's actually quite comfortable on road, my girlfriend is extremely picky when it comes to cars and anything else that girls can be picky about and she loves the car and loves going road trips. As a matter of fact in 6th gear doing 70 mph I don't even have to downshift passing a semi uphill car does it with ease!!!!!!
My old f20c made 225/150 with urge header, password jdm intake and 70mm exhaust with tp. I guess this makes more tq and is cheaper but I’d still rather pay more for the f20c. U can buy a brand new f20c2 block from Europe for close to what he said, but I think it’s worth it.
Wheres the link to those f22c
I did a kswap in a 96 na Miata and it passed emissions. They plugged it up to the OBD2 port and everything. No check light and passed.
Thats awesome! what stock ECU did you use to pass? All Drive by wire K24 ecus won't work on a drive by cable. Or did you do K20a swap with RSX ecu?
@@BalladeSports I used a PND ECU, kpro v4 and kpower adapter harness for the na Miata. Their adapter came with an OBD2 port so I'm sure that helped emissions read correctly.
If the car is a daily driver, what good is the swap if it can’t pass smog?
Same thing I said in the other longer comment: Take the info for what it is. I addressed there is a smog problem and I do not know if it can pass, or be BARed. And when the day comes you need another F series you’re going to hate the price they are going for. It’s not my job to offer emissions solutions.
Plenty of states and other countries do not have smog emissions. AND… we sell globally.
Maybe not worth it to you to k swap but look at the entire world of IG RWD cars being K swapped. Older Porsche, BMW, Mini cooper, NSX!
I know this driver 😉 just commenting quickly she def doesn’t drive like a grandma 😂 not track racing but having her fun out there. Lived for the 6,000 rpm vtech and that og setup but with engine age that hasn’t happened in quite a few thousand miles. Great video 🩵 fun to see this Hunny getting her new digs! 🙌🏼
Im on the fence when mine goes out.... rebuild it and keep the oem engine in.
Or do the type r k20 swap.
Listen, I’ve had all the Honda series of engines and nothing compares to the K-series. Been in the game since the 90’s. Once you have experienced them all you’ll understand how much better the K is. Each series of engines is great in their own regard. Honda engineers improved with every series. Sorry, that might upset a lot of folks.
F series to me felt like it was a prototype to the K. Then K took off leaving F behind.
Points to consider F is better than K, example timing chain. 99.9% never skip teeth. TCT made noise sure but never backed out like K20a/24a tct.
Oil pump F series higher gravitation than K20a2/R
Stock head flow compared to K, doesn’t mean you can’t port K head but stock to stock much better.
How is the vibration with the mounts your using? I’m assuming you’re using the EMI mounts on this setup. Would there be any plans to make brackets to use oem style mounts?
Vibration is minimal. Great question! Ballade already made mount brackets for oem mounts. Prototype only right now. Be ready to see them for sale from Ballade Sports
@@BalladeSports thank you for the reply I’ll be waiting for the brackets to use oem mounts. I’m ready to be away from the vibrations with the hasport mounts
@@williamle678❤working on it!
@@BalladeSports any updates to the mount brackets for oem mounts?
Why did you film this vertical?
Here are the design specifications for the F20C1, F22C1, K20A2 and K24A2 F20C1 bore x stroke=87mm x 84mm, Compression Ratio 11.5:1, 240 bhp torque: 152 lb-ft. F22C1 bore x stroke=87mm x 90.7 mm, Compression Ratio 11:1, 240 bhp torque162 lb-ft. K20A2 bore x stroke=86mm x 86 mm, Compression Ratio 11:1, 200 bhp torque 142 lb-ft. K24A2 bore x stroke=87mm x 99 mm, Compression Ratio 10.5 :1, 197 bhp torque166 lb-ft. It sounds like the F20C1 cylinder block had a lot issues which could not be rebuilt with 256K miles on it. I know that Toda Racing makes high-lift camshafts, forged pistons, forged connecting rods and 2.2 stroker kit (87mm x90.7mm) for the F20C1. Toda Racing makes (2) 2.4 stroker kits (87mm x 99mm) and 2.4 Racing stroker kit (87mm x100mm) for the F22C1. There are no USA distributor for Toda Racing parts have to be order from online JDM parts stores. Toda Racing parts for F20C1 and F22C1 engines may not be cheap but they do exist for these engines. F22C1 engine was available in USA and Japan. F20C was available for the rest of the world until S2000 production ended in 2009. A lot of K24A engines are available and it was more cost effective to do K-series swapped for the S2000. I made this post for people to have knowledge about differences between F series and K series. Also, parts available for the F series.
F20C - 125 hp/L engine weight 326 pounds
K24- 82hp/L Engine Weight: 413 pounds
Racing on the touge vs avoiding stalling at starbucks drive thru traffic 🥴
Would the k24 work with the Doctronic ProECU-S2K?
Yes it will. Doctronic is K series
laughed at the gas mileage part - both my AP1s have always got 23-25 mpg and I beat on them.... K24 Element on the other hand is like 16-18 city, 20-21 highway driving like a grandma.
The element also weighs almost a thousand pounds more and has the aerodynamics of a brick.
And I’d still rather have the f20
All good. Lots of people would. Just costs a lot and the supply is shrinking
I really like your shop but I must say this did seem more like a sale for the k series than a genuine comparison. I have, in the past, thought about the swap and don't currently have a bone in the fight. The messaging doesn't seem straight up though. All I kept hearing was negatives for F20C/F22C1 and positives for the K24A2. Even the positives for F20C/F22C1 had counters to them right after. At first its stated the K series has lower horsepower than later in the video its dyno'd with more (I am assuming with custom tune?). Another big message was that if it was for daily driver and the person who did the swap was for a daily driver but if you can't smog it that's null and void. There is nothing wrong promoting the sale of the k series just the narrative was a bit all over the place and presented as a direct comparison. If approaching from a comparison standpoint go over specs top down, pricing (including a extra needed to make it work), all services as well. Otherwise just boast the k series (obviously void smog warning), nothing wrong with that.
Take the info for what it is. I addressed there is a smog problem and I do not know if it can pass, or be BARed and gave my opinion. When the day comes you need another F series you’re going to hate the price they are going for. It’s not my job to offer emissions solutions.
Plenty of states and other countries do not have smog emissions. AND… we sell globally.
Maybe not worth it to you to k swap but look at the entire world of IG RWD cars being K swapped. Older Porsche, BMW, Mini cooper, even NA1/2 NSX!
I don’t deny I’m selling / promoting our work for K series swap. It’s a Ballade Bias channel. Every video I make is to promote our products. It’s no secret I’m promoting Ballade on this Channel, that’s what a business channel does.
@@BalladeSports There is nothing wrong with being biased or promoting your products just present it in the beginning. Talk about why you like it and go all in with it. I watch your content for that stuff all the time. I would even trust your "biased" input if you did a true comparison...showed the specs, showed current average costs of each with examples, tallied up all the costs with adapter kits and labor to finish them up, even showed cost of aftermarket parts, availability of parts, gains of aftermarket parts, etc. You have the knowledge and experience to present it. My only point of the smog was that it can't be a daily driver if you can't smog it. We all know that. As for the race, yes it shows it has more torque and that car, you dyno tuned, had more hp but you didn't share what the tune was or why this had more hp compared to your early statements that stock for stock the k series are lower than the F series. Could be as simple as "it took us this little amount of time, money and effort and we were able to get better than a stock F series. This is what we did...". Nothing wrong with that. I sense the excitement in your efforts and I know when you get something done you want to show it off while you can (you got to get the car back to the person) but just didn't seem fully thought out.
A lot of the videos are on the fly. I have a full business to run and I do my own UA-cam, editing, and filming. I’m not a full blast content creator. Sorry it’s not your standard. I’ll take your criticism as constructive though. I guess just take it for what it is. Maybe I’ll do better the next time in your eyes.
I agree with what you said. But just wanted to add, as long as he pointed out the pros and cons with the customer in regards to doing the swap and passing emissions, and she went with it, then it's on her. But if she wasn't aware of how the swap will affect her emissions status, then that sucks for her because she's going to have to fork time and money to get it bar'd.
@@joeylor8289customer is fully aware.
I know they gotta make a sale for the K24 and during the race notice they put a fat guy in the stock S2k, that is funny 😁 That lady owner obviously didn't maintain her F20 engine too well.
You should be ashamed for your comment. Body shaming a member of our staff!! Mickey Hartsell you better hope you never run into our guy Vic because you won’t be talking like that in front of him. 6”2 former football player. We are very offended with your comment. I think you need to apologize publicly.
Been thinking about this forna while i came across a s2000 shell with everything besides the seats, engine and fenders. I have an 06 tsx that i am going to be swaping the k24a2 . What is the kit I need going for currently?
Please check out our K swap collection. balladesports.com/collections/k-swap-components
Is it smog legal?
Which Honda ECU you use for the swap? Also, what wing is on the Sebring AP2?
Hello, I covered the ECU being Kpro K series Honda ECU. The spoiler is our own Ballade S2000 Spoiler: balladesports.com/products/ballade-sports-00-09-s2000-rear-trunk-spoiler?_pos=1&_sid=b74f47c6c&_ss=r
Most of the low end torque comes from VTC which F20/F22 didn't have.
Maybe you can get it to pass BAR?? Has it been attempted?
Yes VTC is huge for low end! 100% agree. No idea I’ve never BARed a car. I don’t know how they would feel about the ECU.
@@BalladeSports Things are so strict and complicated in cali. I think emissions controls basically have to match the donor car. I don't think you can mix and match stuff from different chassis. The change from transverse to longitudinal mount might make it impossible.
We are in Cali. We know exactly how hard it is. Everyone still finds a way if they want it bad enough those of us I love modding our cars, I’m not gonna let bureaucratic state stop us from doing what we want to do with our property
@@BalladeSports Easiest way is to find a lenient state ref to print you a nice sticker😄
Does this pass smog?
he answers your question in the video. Here let me help you @14:43
After having a k24 for years and now a hi comp k24 theres a few reasons why i prefer the f series
F series is better on fuel.. alot better.
F series is smooth has no vibration issues that realy takes the fun out of the k series.
Toda spec f22 will make very similar power to a k24 high comp. Feels alot nicer to drive. And cost is similar. But the f22 is a fraction slower down to the power curve.
1mph from 80 to 130mph
F20 has bags more character.
Im still currently k24 hi comp but possibly going back after this year. Will probably be slower on the track. But i could do alot more trackdays and have fun doing them as the f series is also more reliable!
This is real world experience ive had compared to my own s2000s and a group of friend's. The car is also built to a high standard and been through alot of parts to get it to try and drive as nice as a f series. Also been through alot of gearboxes and clutches due to vibrations.
This car is driven hard on tracl and occasionally driven on the road.
Just bare in mind it isnt a maintenance free swap of you drive it with enthusiasm.
@@daniellawrence8876 we are coming out with OEM S2k motor mounts for K swap. So this will make the swap smoother. Stay Tuned
@BalladeSports this is somthing I've been considering to make myself although not sure if it will help with the longevity of the running gear
Assuming the owner doesn’t live in CA 😂😂😂
What % of Cali S2000s do you think already do not pass emissions from owners modding them but still have tags? I’m willing to bet its pretty high %
@@BalladeSports I'm not sure, but CA is also trying even harder to crack down on "hot smog". I just wish there weren't that many restrictions in CA, we pretty much can't even put an intake in a car, let alone an engine swap.
Life, Uh… Finds a Way!! #Jurassicpark
Bro, you couldve at least gotten her a $20 radiator stay bracket. That thing rusty af!
256k mile car BRO, S2000s are 20 plus years old. Our job was to perform the swap. Refurbishing everything in the car is not part of our mandate. We were not commissioned to do anything with the radiator. Hence it was left stock and as is.
K is the way!
Price for this swap?
balladesports.com/collections/k-swap-components