@@meatsmudge5349 ik dude shit crazy itslike you can get your hands on an adapterr to make a flair into a12 gauge ( wich is illeal) butt ya can get your hands on stuff to make "not technically guns " go boom im thelling you joe Biden has already got his way with guns and know only the elitist can even afford an ar-ak because the elitist are starting to outvoice the working-class time for a true revolution is coming and I will tell you another thang Biden doesn't know true marxism no one ever has in my version the rich will pay for the free health care the rich will help fund underfunded causes such as the police in my version of marxism there will still be a vote and people will be herd from the wood's of Alabama to the city's of new york and every man and woman regardless of race or religion will be offered the same freedoms as every one elce the same freedoms as every one elce evrone will still get paid for there hard work and and unless the jobis truly different than any other job than every one will be paid the same and there will be nomoretalckabout rasum everyone in my version of marxisum will be done the same
go ahead give me shit in the comment butt ik my cause is only right were the working and the rich will no longer be separated by class if I had my way we wold all be equal no one wold ever get bullied ever again for anything and the people will be happy knowing that bulling would not be tolerated in our version of America butt this doesn't mean that ppl won't be able to talk thay will be able to say whatever that want butt no-bullying would be allowed and the civilians would have the same access to guns as do know if not n essayer system and that system would be o a racking system, for example, a 1-10 scale 1 would be a minor crime that can be resolved by a number of different way's to a 10 wich wold be mentally insane and are not allowed to own period knowe if you have a question ask if not then go back to your cozy life as sheep to a fascist
@@jeremiahherron5895 First: I don’t argue with illiterates. I consider it bullying. Second: Useful idiots don’t get their version of Marxism when revolutions happen. Learn some history. Third: It’s hard to make a coherent point when you’re drunk and/or stoned. Thankfully, you can delete your nonsense when you sober up.
55 grains by volume of pyrodex with a level load of shot. Roll crimp. Very low chamber pressure I have used this load on guns that had been commited to the scrap bin many years ago with wafer thin barrells. No bulges. Even manages to bag a few pigeons with this load. The sub sonic speed gives very uniform patterns indeed. Dont be scared just do it
I personally own a 1892 T.C Montgomery Damascus double barrel 12gauge. Still looks and works amazing. Has a ton of hand engravings from one end to the other. They don't make'm like these anymore
Damascus barrels can handle lower pressure modern loads as long as the barrels are in good shape. It is not a hard and fast rule by any means that damascus barrels need to be converted. I participate in the Southern Side by Side Spring Classic every year, and there are lots of people there shooting damascus guns with no problems.
I shoot low dram trap and bird shot out of mine, and sometimes black powder shells. I have a 1908 T. Barker with Belgium high grade Damascus barrels. I personally wouldn't shoot anything that hasn't been checked good by a gunsmith for corrosion, rust between the twists. Or any shotgun without verifiable proof marks from when it was made and tested. If the rust and corrosion is bad, don't shoot it. Hang it on the wall. Otherwise, many Damascus barrel guns are reliable and well made. Fox, Ithaca, and well marked Belgium made barrels can be the best.
Would Winchester super target skeet shells work? 12ga, 2 3/4 (my Damascus is 2 3/4), 1180fps, 1oz, #8shot. I just want to skeet shoot with it. Was made in 1892 by Parker Brothers
Oh, wow!! Both of these took paper-wrapped shot shells.. black-powder obviously. Be safe when hand-loading rounds for these. Would love to feel them on "the swing" when a grouse gets up!! I'll bet that they could put 'em right back down!!
I wonder if a person could take a later model steel (double barrel) barrel and fit it to the frame of the old demascus shotgun? That way you'd have the vintage look but with modern ammo
It all depends on the condition of the barrels if you can shoot modern loads in them.. I have a 1902 Parker Brother with Twist barrels. I got the OK by a specialized gunsmith to shoot modern loads through mine. Majority of the guns that explode are either in terrible condition, have been honed out too thin, or are shot with longer shells. Some of these shotguns have 2 1/2" chambers and will chamber a 2 3/4" shell... If you do that, you will get unsafe pressure spikes. I had my barrels x-rayed to check for slag or cracks in them and found nothing. They are sound barrels and shoot well.
My father shot 2 3/4" modern shells from an 1896 Le Fever hammerless A grade Skeet model for years. The internals are beat to death but the barrels never had any problems. A gun shop I was working on was owned by two English gentlemen, who graciously took the gun to The Tower of London Armoury, and got it proofed for me, for free, so it is certified to safely shoot modern smokeless powder. Le Fever's Damascus barrels were all outsourced from England, and the forged steel barrels came from England, Germany, Austria, etc. Krupps made some of the forged barrels.
You can send the gun for Nitro Proofing in England, but all that means, is they might blow it up for you. If it does not blow apart they will stamp it and your gun is certified to shoot smokeless powder. You should post a link for each of these companies. I have a gorgeous Le Fever A grade 1896 hammerless that is just a joy to hold, let alone shoot. Le Fever sourced their twist barrels from England and the forged steel barrels from all over Europe, including Krupps of Germany.
I’d just strap it too a tire. With strings on the trigger. Load it up with heavy high brass game loads. And run a box through. If it holds. Then I’d stamp it TTT. For Taren Tested Tough .
@@hondaxl250k0 I just shot about 12 monarch dove loads through a Damascus barrel (didnt know it could have exploded) and it did just fine. still going to get it checked though
Better yet just take used shot shells you shot from your modern shotgun or collected shell and reload them with black powder or Pyrodex a sub for Black powder that is more available than real black powder due to regs put in by the Patriot act.You can reload BP in a shotshell without even having a reloader
WTF would i spend that much money on inserts for a 200 dollar shotgun? Way too much info on the net for loading blackpowder and light loads to use in them all day long, just like Doc Holliday used at the OK Corral.
Wow I have never seen another W.M. Moore shotgun on the internet. Mine is in much much better shape, still having case hardening in some spots. It is in 16 gauge and I load up reduced power BP shells for it
A couple of old beauties there! The one on top looks as though it has more drop at the heel.. PEOPLE!! Only shoot black-powder through these, please!! Better safe than sorry.
I know this is an old post, but no they aren't. Old Damascus barreled shotguns will almost always have 2 1/2 inch chambers. Loading a 2 3/4 inch shell is dangerous as the shell can't open up fully.
if they are proof marked they are safe. too many saying you cannot use modern powders, you can. but ask a firearms shop to check, eg a firearms repairer, they can read the symbols and meanings.
@Jeff Lee wrong, the gunsmith read the markings on our shotgun, its is proofed for modern powders. proof markings prove it. and 30 years of using modern shells the gunsmith said proves that fact as well. he said if it was not then it would have blown up. backing upthe proof marks.
I would much rather shoot a black powder 12-gauge out of a 30 inch barrel than shoot a modern 20-gauge out of a 6-inch barrel because those adapters are way too short to be fully effective.
Light loaded target shells out of mine... have gone through numerous boxes and my shotgun is still working perfectly. I'm not paying for stupid inserts.
I have a Janssen and sons co. double barrel shotgun no clue what year or model. The dude I got it from said the gun was made sometime in the 1900s & that was it. What kind of light target loads did you use??? Or does it not matter with light loads
@@2fatal187 Any low brass small shot size loads will work... Something that wont put extreme pressure stress on the barrel. Either that or handmade black-powder loads. Look at the box and if it has a pellet velocity under about 1,200 fps and the shot size is no larger than 7 1/2 you should be good. I wouldn't want to put slugs or buckshot through an old dog. Mine was an old Colonial 137 years old as of 2016.
@@mr.techaky7655 okay thank you I do appreciate it, I had no clue what kind of loads to use but I knew black powder could be used so I made some with number 8 shots
I have an 1882 Remington coach gun, and an 1850s double barrel muzzleloading shotgun. I load them lite, and ONLY with blackpowder. After all, back when these guns were in service that is what was used.
Yes and no. The Remington model 1894 and 1900 had damascus barrels and were proofed with smokeless powder, it depends on the quality of the gun. Higher end damascus barreled guns were proofed with smokeless loads. They are still weaker than fluid steel barrels but not so weak that they will explode with light loads. A lot of issues come from guns with 2-1/2" and 2-5/8" chambers being fired with modern 2-3/4" or god forbid 3" shells. The crimp doesn't have room to open driving up the pressure. Smokeless powder came about in 1886 and most cartridges and militaries were using it my 1892, most people seem to believe smokeless powder came much later. In reality if you read older books you will find blackpowder was basically non existen from the teen to the early 50's when the cowboy guns became popular again.
@@outspokengenius Thanks for the info. I've wondered if the old coach gun would handle light loads with smokeless. I cut the shells down for a 2 1/2" just to be on the safe side. Though, I haven't shot the old gun but about five times thus far.
I’ve shot hundreds of 7 1/2 shot low brass out of a twisted barrel side by side. I just wouldn’t throw a slug in. But fires fine and no barrel bulging.
28 grammes maximum for the lead and for an 16 gauge 4.5 grammes of black powder and for a 12 gauge 5 ; 5,5 grammes of black powder ! and it s good. but the light chargement in modern cartridge it s ok but in 28 g
That bottom Shotgun is a Chateroux. What is it's Gauge and if possible the Date of manufacture. I have hanging on my Wall a 20 Gauge from the late 1800's. I shoot Black Powder filled Shells through it with no problems.
Just use normal calibre adapters, don't worry about the tubes. I've been using everything but 12G in my old Bonehill SxS shotgun. (I have bought some old ammo that would be safe to use but it is collectable ammo...)
@@Wetheppls47 If it's a breach loader go for it. Get full length adaptors if you can afford it or want to use it regularly for hunting. If you just want some fun sometimes get 3 inch adaptors, you will probably have to file the front edges a bit to fit as they probably don't have 3 inch chambers but it gives more protection for the gun.
@@sionsoschwalts2762 yes it is a breach loader and I can decide between 410 or 22lr I’m probably getting the 410 and I actually may saw the barrel of to maneuver it around easier what caliber do you think is best
And if I’m not wrong the barrel is 20 inches long also what caliber should I draw the line at because I’m not going to shoot a 20 guage out of a Bp shoutgun ?
Heres an idea, and I've done it for ALL the old "gauges" I've come across... Have weapon thoroughly inspected and approved to be fired by a GOOD gunsmith. Then, buy or hand load, 1. black powder shells and keep the guns super clean 2. use cowboy loads... yes cowboy loads. low pressure and they work for everything and won't ruin the weapon... unless the user does something stupid, WHICH IS USUALLY THE CASE. lol
He said lower pressure ammo won't ruin the weapon unless the owner does something stupid, and I replied, "Like slam the car door on the barrel". I have seen a few shotguns get slammed in car doors and trunk lids. With a 1959 Chevy Impala that kinda puts one heck of a dent in the gun and the car.
Yeah, my uncle blew the end off a Winchester pump shotgun by getting a tiny bit of snow in the barrel, and my dad slammed a car door on a SxS shotgun. That back when people took their big 1950s boat of a car hunting.
I'm confused, I have a gun marked Crescent No.9 Belgian damascus with exposed hammers, 12ga, laminated steel/damascus, some light engraving.. it accepts 3in shells, but all I've tested in it are 2 3/4 black powder, 3 1/4 dram, no6. It locks up tight and shoots a great patter despite a slight ding in one barrel that does not crack or protrude inside.. But I can't tell where it matches with any historical information I can find. Looks like it was a pretty gun when it was new.
As a gun barrel maker for 30 years I can say with experience it is not unsafe to use modern nitro powder in Damascus barrels. Obviously in the UK the gun would be submitted for nitro re proof to test it like any other gun to make sure it is safe anyway. New or old. I have submitted many over the years for modern nitro load re proof with absolutely no problems with the barrels. I have seen a fair few modern steel barrels burst for whatever reason, but not a Damascus one. I shoot a Clarke sxs box lock with Damascus barrels every year at game. (some fairly hectic days too) It has been reproofed for nitro shells a couple of times over it's hundred year existence. And still going strong.
I'm saying that just because a barrel is Damascus it does not mean that it is unsafe to shoot smokeless through it. Provided that it has been tested to do so first. As said in my comment above. The two guns in this video look unfit to fire ANY loads and shouldn't be fired at all. Whether they are Damascus or modern steel.
@@fil9088 You'd NEVER make a barrel for me . With that train of thought . And you ACTUALLY advise on these fine old shotguns ??? Do the double barrel world a BIG favor and shutup. Before You get someone hurt . Black powder loads only ! If your to LAZY to clean your gun leave it in the safe
This is a typical example of the uniformed addressing use of so-called smokeless ammunition in quality damascus barreled guns. These guns look as if they haven't been well cared for and need to be examined by a competent gunsmith, preferably one benched trained in England or Europe. You don't need to use "Briley" tubes or inserts, simply use standard or target loads and you'll be fine. The English, for example, employ proofed damascus barreled guns all the time, and have done for decades.
I have an old reminton 1900 KED 12 ga, which means k=grade, e=automatic ejectors, these are cool if you fire both barrels they kick the empties free of the gun, if you only fire one barrel it kicks the fired shell free, but only pushes the unfired shell about 1/3 of an inch for easy removal, and d=damascus barrels. I shoot skeet every week and use it for small game hunting every year. I use smoless ammo with no problems. All remingtons were nitro proofed at the factory, and this gun while well used was well cared for all it's life. There are thousands of damascus barreled guns still being safely used, while I probably wouldn't trust one of the old cheap guns, ie., American Gun Company, or other similar guns with damascus (or even regular steel barrels for that matter), higher quality shotguns like remington, parker, and many of the fine old british damascus shotguns made after the late 1890's, are perfectly safe, However if you aquire one of these and don't know it's history, have it checked out by a gunsmith that is familier with these old guns, as most gunsmiths will issue a blanket condemnation of thes firearms. Otherwise test the gun by tying to an old tire and firing it from a safe distance with stins tied to the triggers inspecting it afterward for any damage.
Nitro proofed ? Hmmm how many pounds of pressure does nitro proofing max out at ? Or does nitro profing use C.U.P. ? ( For those of you who think smokeless is safe to shoot in these Damascus barrels C.U.P. means copper unit of pressure) omg these people
Or use black powder, which is messy, and corrosive. I have a few fine old American and English fowling pieces. My great grandfather was a doctor, bought guns, enjoyed hunting, fishing, and was known to take in fine guns in trade for services rendered. The Le Fever is a gorgeous gun, and the machining on the rib is done in such a way the light reflects off the outer part, leaving a darker looking strip right to bead. It looks so incredible when you sight down that rib.
I’ve got an H J Sterling 12 ga. Side by side. DM steel barrel. I’ve shot everything out of it.. I’m 34. Got it at 15. At that time had no clue it was unsafe with smokeless ammo. Figured it was fake DM steel. Well by proof marks it’s BP only. So after all these years now I’m afraid to shoot it. I use to use hi brass #4 all the time for pheasant and goose . Kinda scary
@@hondaxl250k0 Ya, it is scary and it's always the last shot you take, that damages the gun, yourself or both! Problem is, you never know until it happens, how many times you can shoot it, before it's last shot!
Wisdom would demand a person acquire a modern produced double-barrel shotgun: hammerless and preferably with automatic ejectors. Examples include a late 1970's/early 1980's vintage Browning BSS sporter, or Ithaca SKB 280-E English with straight grip English stock from same era, Italian Beretta, or whatever. Mostly these would be in 12 and 20 gauge, not so much 16 gauge. A post World War II (1939-1945) double-barrel shotgun whether American (a Savage-Fox BSE for instance) or Japanese, Brazilian, or European import fabricated of modern high strength steels, chrome lined bores, etc. is designed for modern high pressure smokeless powder shotgun shells. Unfortunately these won't be cheap. However, they would no doubt be less expensive, and far safer, than attempting to upgrade or alter an ancient late 19th century (turn of the century) vintage double-barrel shotgun with Belgian Damascus or "twist" barrels. Too, a modern double-barrel shotgun will likewise chamber and fire brass shotgun shells with black powder. Black powder in original Damascus barrel shotguns? Considering the age, metallurgy, attrition, and minute rust and corrosion invisible to the human eye even this practice is questionable? About 20 years ago I did fire several 12 gauge black powder shells through an 1882 "outside hammer" Parker double- barrel shotgun with original Twist barrels. However, I'd be reluctant to ever attempt this again.
I was looking at some 10 ga shotguns online today and they looked similar to yours, but they said paper loads, 10 ga bore but 12 ga black power. How do I know if it can take 10 ga shells and weather or not it can handle modern 10 ga shells that shoot steel?
Short answer no . Most older 10 ga are 2 7/8 i think or 2 1/2 in in shell length. Modern 10 ga are 3 1/2 in length. Correct Handloading will be the only way the use the gun to its full potential and assure it fires safety. I mean Quality handloads of correct length Black powder shells handloaded by a knowledgeable handloader.
I have a side lever double almost like the top gun and I shoot it all the time with low brass shells. As long as the barrels are NOT pitted on the inside it should be safe to fire. If pitted bad, loose, off the "Face", leave it alone, or get it fixed by someone who knows what they are doing.
1891 James Lang from London reproofed 2 3/4" Nitro 1 1/8 oz. Should last another 100 years. If you have a classic send it in for evaluation and reproof.
The gun you have there. The top one. Is that a W. Harris by chance? I have an old shotgun that could be it's twin. Same metal work and stock. If it is a W. Harris do you have any info about this gun manufacture? Good video. I was thinking about those adaptors they sell. Like the adaptor that would convert a 12 G. into a 410/45 LC or 20 G. The adaptor should take the brunt of the blast. And I am thinking of cutting the barrel down to 18 or 20 inches to reduce the pressures when fired.
MCA sports in Alaska is my favorite source for inserts! (You still have to be careful about pressure of your load on the action!) If in doubt, fire remotely at first.
WTF DOES LOW BRASS MEAN ?? thats the dumbest renmark I've ever read to date . OK Children ONCE AGAIN here we go BLACK POWDER loads ONLY boys and girls. If you can't load your own( and by reading your post you prolly can't. ) Find someone who can .
@@Craig-sz9yb Wrong. Look into the 1894 Remington! Quality damascus guns were proofed with smokeless powder! Albeit light loads and yes low brass means nothing their are heavy low brass loads and light high brass loads.
Brett Duffy well sir, if you have the cash I'd recommend getting a cap and ball revolver, (preferably a Remington) and a Kurst cartridge door converter. The two items separate are not legally a handgun until put together. So you can have it put away. Or just buy a Remington and spare cylinders and have a black powder revolver that works as well as a modern revolver. At the end of your 7 months sell it and buy something more modern.
Look at similar guns on gunbroker dot com and see what they're selling for. There are other online and text book resources as well. Just have to do a little research.
You need to talk to a real gunsmith and not believe all the hooey you read online. The myth of damascus/twist steel barrels being inherently weak came from poorly manufactured guns from sub par makers. Yes damascus is weaker than fluid steel but it is not inherently dangerous to use with smokeless powder, several manufacturers make 2-1/2" light compression loads that are perfectly safe in quality damascus barreled guns. Remington proofed all of their model 1894 and 1900's with damascus barrels with smokeless powder for one. Loading with blackpowder is definitely and option though and can be done with no special tools.
and the best option of all just reload damn black powder ammo for them. the best and cheapest way there.
my dude black power is like 40-60$ rk 2 of these adapters are about the same and are way easier to get your hands on...
@@jeremiahherron5895 Nine years ago it wasn’t. My dude.
@@meatsmudge5349 ik dude shit crazy itslike you can get your hands on an adapterr to make a flair into a12 gauge ( wich is illeal) butt ya can get your hands on stuff to make "not technically guns " go boom im thelling you joe Biden has already got his way with guns and know only the elitist can even afford an ar-ak because the elitist are starting to outvoice the working-class time for a true revolution is coming and I will tell you another thang Biden doesn't know true marxism no one ever has in my version the rich will pay for the free health care the rich will help fund underfunded causes such as the police in my version of marxism there will still be a vote and people will be herd from the wood's of Alabama to the city's of new york and every man and woman regardless of race or religion will be offered the same freedoms as every one elce the same freedoms as every one elce evrone will still get paid for there hard work and and unless the jobis truly different than any other job than every one will be paid the same and there will be nomoretalckabout rasum everyone in my version of marxisum will be done the same
go ahead give me shit in the comment butt ik my cause is only right were the working and the rich will no longer be separated by class if I had my way we wold all be equal no one wold ever get bullied ever again for anything and the people will be happy knowing that bulling would not be tolerated in our version of America butt this doesn't mean that ppl won't be able to talk thay will be able to say whatever that want butt no-bullying would be allowed and the civilians would have the same access to guns as do know if not n essayer system and that system would be o a racking system, for example, a 1-10 scale 1 would be a minor crime that can be resolved by a number of different way's to a 10 wich wold be mentally insane and are not allowed to own period knowe if you have a question ask if not then go back to your cozy life as sheep to a fascist
@@jeremiahherron5895 First: I don’t argue with illiterates. I consider it bullying.
Second: Useful idiots don’t get their version of Marxism when revolutions happen. Learn some history.
Third: It’s hard to make a coherent point when you’re drunk and/or stoned. Thankfully, you can delete your nonsense when you sober up.
55 grains by volume of pyrodex with a level load of shot. Roll crimp. Very low chamber pressure I have used this load on guns that had been commited to the scrap bin many years ago with wafer thin barrells. No bulges. Even manages to bag a few pigeons with this load. The sub sonic speed gives very uniform patterns indeed. Dont be scared just do it
I personally own a 1892 T.C Montgomery Damascus double barrel 12gauge. Still looks and works amazing. Has a ton of hand engravings from one end to the other. They don't make'm like these anymore
Damascus barrels can handle lower pressure modern loads as long as the barrels are in good shape. It is not a hard and fast rule by any means that damascus barrels need to be converted. I participate in the Southern Side by Side Spring Classic every year, and there are lots of people there shooting damascus guns with no problems.
If they don't shoot PROPER black powder loads there idiots. And have no business with that type barrel
@@Craig-sz9yb What a load of crap
Such as how@@philt5782
I shoot low dram trap and bird shot out of mine, and sometimes black powder shells. I have a 1908 T. Barker with Belgium high grade Damascus barrels. I personally wouldn't shoot anything that hasn't been checked good by a gunsmith for corrosion, rust between the twists. Or any shotgun without verifiable proof marks from when it was made and tested. If the rust and corrosion is bad, don't shoot it. Hang it on the wall. Otherwise, many Damascus barrel guns are reliable and well made. Fox, Ithaca, and well marked Belgium made barrels can be the best.
Would Winchester super target skeet shells work? 12ga, 2 3/4 (my Damascus is 2 3/4), 1180fps, 1oz, #8shot. I just want to skeet shoot with it. Was made in 1892 by Parker Brothers
Oh, wow!! Both of these took paper-wrapped shot shells.. black-powder obviously. Be safe when hand-loading rounds for these. Would love to feel them on "the swing" when a grouse gets up!! I'll bet that they could put 'em right back down!!
I wonder if a person could take a later model steel (double barrel) barrel and fit it to the frame of the old demascus shotgun? That way you'd have the vintage look but with modern ammo
yes but it will probably cost you a pretty penny
That is a horrible idea. Stay away from older firearms. Get a daisy red ryder
Doable but not worth the cost unless it's a Purdey or something. Then you'd get new barrels made to fit.
It all depends on the condition of the barrels if you can shoot modern loads in them.. I have a 1902 Parker Brother with Twist barrels. I got the OK by a specialized gunsmith to shoot modern loads through mine. Majority of the guns that explode are either in terrible condition, have been honed out too thin, or are shot with longer shells. Some of these shotguns have 2 1/2" chambers and will chamber a 2 3/4" shell... If you do that, you will get unsafe pressure spikes.
I had my barrels x-rayed to check for slag or cracks in them and found nothing. They are sound barrels and shoot well.
+TomatheGreek how much did you pay for that?
nothing, it's all about who you know.
My father shot 2 3/4" modern shells from an 1896 Le Fever hammerless A grade Skeet model for years. The internals are beat to death but the barrels never had any problems. A gun shop I was working on was owned by two English gentlemen, who graciously took the gun to The Tower of London Armoury, and got it proofed for me, for free, so it is certified to safely shoot modern smokeless powder. Le Fever's Damascus barrels were all outsourced from England, and the forged steel barrels came from England, Germany, Austria, etc. Krupps made some of the forged barrels.
You can send the gun for Nitro Proofing in England, but all that means, is they might blow it up for you. If it does not blow apart they will stamp it and your gun is certified to shoot smokeless powder. You should post a link for each of these companies. I have a gorgeous Le Fever A grade 1896 hammerless that is just a joy to hold, let alone shoot. Le Fever sourced their twist barrels from England and the forged steel barrels from all over Europe, including Krupps of Germany.
I’d just strap it too a tire. With strings on the trigger. Load it up with heavy high brass game loads. And run a box through. If it holds. Then I’d stamp it TTT. For Taren Tested Tough .
@@hondaxl250k0 I just shot about 12 monarch dove loads through a Damascus barrel (didnt know it could have exploded) and it did just fine. still going to get it checked though
Better yet just take used shot shells you shot from your modern shotgun or collected shell and reload them with black powder or Pyrodex a sub for Black powder that is more available than real black powder due to regs put in by the Patriot act.You can reload BP in a shotshell without even having a reloader
WTF would i spend that much money on inserts for a 200 dollar shotgun? Way too much info on the net for loading blackpowder and light loads to use in them all day long, just like Doc Holliday used at the OK Corral.
blackpowder charges
Wow I have never seen another W.M. Moore shotgun on the internet. Mine is in much much better shape, still having case hardening in some spots. It is in 16 gauge and I load up reduced power BP shells for it
A couple of old beauties there! The one on top looks as though it has more drop at the heel.. PEOPLE!! Only shoot black-powder through these, please!! Better safe than sorry.
As long as the charge isn't over 100 grains of black powder or it's sub Pyrodex for a 12ga or more than 82 grains in a 16ga
Uh, Um, Uh , um, uh, um uh uh uh uh um um um uh uh fuck its driving me nuts
cabelas sells black powder 2 3/4 inch 7.5 shot. 12g shells for cowboy action shooting, i wonder if those would be safe.
I know this is an old post, but no they aren't. Old Damascus barreled shotguns will almost always have 2 1/2 inch chambers. Loading a 2 3/4 inch shell is dangerous as the shell can't open up fully.
@@arisukak SO - GET THE CHAMBER MEASURED BEFORE SHOOTING THE BP SHELLS. & CHAMBERS CAN BE REAMED OUT TO FIRE 2 3/4" SHELLS.
if they are proof marked they are safe. too many saying you cannot use modern powders, you can.
but ask a firearms shop to check, eg a firearms repairer, they can read the symbols and meanings.
@Jeff Lee wrong, the gunsmith read the markings on our shotgun, its is proofed for modern powders.
proof markings prove it.
and 30 years of using modern shells the gunsmith said proves that fact as well.
he said if it was not then it would have blown up.
backing upthe proof marks.
I would much rather shoot a black powder 12-gauge out of a 30 inch barrel than shoot a modern 20-gauge out of a 6-inch barrel because those adapters are way too short to be fully effective.
Light loaded target shells out of mine... have gone through numerous boxes and my shotgun is still working perfectly. I'm not paying for stupid inserts.
I have a Janssen and sons co. double barrel shotgun no clue what year or model. The dude I got it from said the gun was made sometime in the 1900s & that was it. What kind of light target loads did you use??? Or does it not matter with light loads
@@2fatal187 Any low brass small shot size loads will work... Something that wont put extreme pressure stress on the barrel. Either that or handmade black-powder loads. Look at the box and if it has a pellet velocity under about 1,200 fps and the shot size is no larger than 7 1/2 you should be good. I wouldn't want to put slugs or buckshot through an old dog. Mine was an old Colonial 137 years old as of 2016.
@@mr.techaky7655 okay thank you I do appreciate it, I had no clue what kind of loads to use but I knew black powder could be used so I made some with number 8 shots
You might not be paying for stupid inserts, but you will pay for...stupid!
I have an 1882 Remington coach gun, and an 1850s double barrel muzzleloading shotgun.
I load them lite, and ONLY with blackpowder. After all, back when these guns were in service that is what was used.
Yes and no. The Remington model 1894 and 1900 had damascus barrels and were proofed with smokeless powder, it depends on the quality of the gun. Higher end damascus barreled guns were proofed with smokeless loads. They are still weaker than fluid steel barrels but not so weak that they will explode with light loads. A lot of issues come from guns with 2-1/2" and 2-5/8" chambers being fired with modern 2-3/4" or god forbid 3" shells. The crimp doesn't have room to open driving up the pressure. Smokeless powder came about in 1886 and most cartridges and militaries were using it my 1892, most people seem to believe smokeless powder came much later. In reality if you read older books you will find blackpowder was basically non existen from the teen to the early 50's when the cowboy guns became popular again.
@@outspokengenius Thanks for the info. I've wondered if the old coach gun would handle light loads with smokeless.
I cut the shells down for a 2 1/2" just to be on the safe side. Though, I haven't shot the old gun but about five times thus far.
The top gun is a William Moore of London.
Nice shotguns!!! They sell light loads of birdshot, and short rounds, low recoil rounds. Might be ok to use low powered rounds, but I'm no expert.
I’ve shot hundreds of 7 1/2 shot low brass out of a twisted barrel side by side. I just wouldn’t throw a slug in. But fires fine and no barrel bulging.
28 grammes maximum for the lead and for an 16 gauge 4.5 grammes of black powder and for a 12 gauge 5 ; 5,5 grammes of black powder ! and it s good. but the light chargement in modern cartridge it s ok but in 28 g
That bottom Shotgun is a Chateroux. What is it's Gauge and if possible the Date of manufacture. I have hanging on my Wall a 20 Gauge from the late 1800's. I shoot Black Powder filled Shells through it with no problems.
Just use normal calibre adapters, don't worry about the tubes. I've been using everything but 12G in my old Bonehill SxS shotgun. (I have bought some old ammo that would be safe to use but it is collectable ammo...)
I have an old black powder Zulu rifle works fine it I were to buy an adapter for 410 do you think it would be fine ???
@@Wetheppls47 If it's a breach loader go for it. Get full length adaptors if you can afford it or want to use it regularly for hunting. If you just want some fun sometimes get 3 inch adaptors, you will probably have to file the front edges a bit to fit as they probably don't have 3 inch chambers but it gives more protection for the gun.
@@sionsoschwalts2762 yes it is a breach loader and I can decide between 410 or 22lr I’m probably getting the 410 and I actually may saw the barrel of to maneuver it around easier what caliber do you think is best
And if I’m not wrong the barrel is 20 inches long also what caliber should I draw the line at because I’m not going to shoot a 20 guage out of a Bp shoutgun ?
I do need to fix the frame but that’s it
Heres an idea, and I've done it for ALL the old "gauges" I've come across... Have weapon thoroughly inspected and approved to be fired by a GOOD gunsmith. Then, buy or hand load,
1. black powder shells and keep the guns super clean
2. use cowboy loads... yes cowboy loads. low pressure and they work for everything and won't ruin the weapon... unless the user does something stupid, WHICH IS USUALLY THE CASE. lol
Like slam the car door on the barrel?
Seth B I have no idea what that means.
He said lower pressure ammo won't ruin the weapon unless the owner does something stupid, and I replied, "Like slam the car door on the barrel". I have seen a few shotguns get slammed in car doors and trunk lids. With a 1959 Chevy Impala that kinda puts one heck of a dent in the gun and the car.
Seth B OOOH OK NOW ITS IN CONTEXT! Yea that happens more than people would like to admit.
Yeah, my uncle blew the end off a Winchester pump shotgun by getting a tiny bit of snow in the barrel, and my dad slammed a car door on a SxS shotgun. That back when people took their big 1950s boat of a car hunting.
I'm confused, I have a gun marked Crescent No.9 Belgian damascus with exposed hammers, 12ga, laminated steel/damascus, some light engraving.. it accepts 3in shells, but all I've tested in it are 2 3/4 black powder, 3 1/4 dram, no6.
It locks up tight and shoots a great patter despite a slight ding in one barrel that does not crack or protrude inside..
But I can't tell where it matches with any historical information I can find.
Looks like it was a pretty gun when it was new.
Most of Crescents records where destroyed in a paper drive for wwll.
nice guns man I wish I had those laying around
As a gun barrel maker for 30 years I can say with experience it is not unsafe to use modern nitro powder in Damascus barrels. Obviously in the UK the gun would be submitted for nitro re proof to test it like any other gun to make sure it is safe anyway. New or old. I have submitted many over the years for modern nitro load re proof with absolutely no problems with the barrels. I have seen a fair few modern steel barrels burst for whatever reason, but not a Damascus one. I shoot a Clarke sxs box lock with Damascus barrels every year at game. (some fairly hectic days too)
It has been reproofed for nitro shells a couple of times over it's hundred year existence.
And still going strong.
Bozard & Co not unsafe you can use two negatives
it is safe or no
?
I'm saying that just because a barrel is Damascus it does not mean that it is unsafe to shoot smokeless through it. Provided that it has been tested to do so first. As said in my comment above.
The two guns in this video look unfit to fire ANY loads and shouldn't be fired at all. Whether they are Damascus or modern steel.
so it could be safe
@@fil9088
You'd NEVER make a barrel for me . With that train of thought . And you ACTUALLY advise on these fine old shotguns ??? Do the double barrel world a BIG favor and shutup. Before You get someone hurt . Black powder loads only !
If your to LAZY to clean your gun leave it in the safe
Can I shoot regular modern bird shot through a 1922 Parker VHE ?
No
This is a typical example of the uniformed addressing use of so-called smokeless ammunition in quality damascus barreled guns. These guns look as if they haven't been well cared for and need to be examined by a competent gunsmith, preferably one benched trained in England or Europe. You don't need to use "Briley" tubes or inserts, simply use standard or target loads and you'll be fine. The English, for example, employ proofed damascus barreled guns all the time, and have done for decades.
I have an old reminton 1900 KED 12 ga, which means k=grade, e=automatic ejectors, these are cool if you fire both barrels they kick the empties free of the gun, if you only fire one barrel it kicks the fired shell free, but only pushes the unfired shell about 1/3 of an inch for easy removal, and d=damascus barrels. I shoot skeet every week and use it for small game hunting every year. I use smoless ammo with no problems. All remingtons were nitro proofed at the factory, and this gun while well used was well cared for all it's life. There are thousands of damascus barreled guns still being safely used, while I probably wouldn't trust one of the old cheap guns, ie., American Gun Company, or other similar guns with damascus (or even regular steel barrels for that matter), higher quality shotguns like remington, parker, and many of the fine old british damascus shotguns made after the late 1890's, are perfectly safe, However if you aquire one of these and don't know it's history, have it checked out by a gunsmith that is familier with these old guns, as most gunsmiths will issue a blanket condemnation of thes firearms. Otherwise test the gun by tying to an old tire and firing it from a safe distance with stins tied to the triggers inspecting it afterward for any damage.
Nitro proofed ? Hmmm how many pounds of pressure does nitro proofing max out at ? Or does nitro profing use C.U.P. ? ( For those of you who think smokeless is safe to shoot in these Damascus barrels C.U.P. means copper unit of pressure) omg these people
Shotguns in those days where measured in lup. Somewhere between 15000and 18000 psi
Handload for old shotgun and choose loads with low chamber pressure, that is what i do.
Or use black powder, which is messy, and corrosive. I have a few fine old American and English fowling pieces. My great grandfather was a doctor, bought guns, enjoyed hunting, fishing, and was known to take in fine guns in trade for services rendered. The Le Fever is a gorgeous gun, and the machining on the rib is done in such a way the light reflects off the outer part, leaving a darker looking strip right to bead. It looks so incredible when you sight down that rib.
We have a 16g from 1897 with damascus barrels and we shoot it with smokeless cartridges and it is fine.
***** Yea I dont shoot heavy loads out of mine, usually 28 grams but they still do the job for pheasant shooting :)
***** I would only shoot from October- the end of January (ON DRY DAYS) because thats the game season in Northern Ireland (where i live) :)
A LOT HAS DO WITH THE QUALITY OF THE STEEL. IS THE 197 A US OR EUROPIAN MODEL? THE US BARRELS ARE NORMALLY BETTER STEEL THAN THE EUROPEAN STEEL.
I’ve got an H J Sterling 12 ga. Side by side. DM steel barrel. I’ve shot everything out of it.. I’m 34. Got it at 15. At that time had no clue it was unsafe with smokeless ammo. Figured it was fake DM steel. Well by proof marks it’s BP only. So after all these years now I’m afraid to shoot it. I use to use hi brass #4 all the time for pheasant and goose . Kinda scary
@@hondaxl250k0 Ya, it is scary and it's always the last shot you take, that damages the gun, yourself or both! Problem is, you never know until it happens, how many times you can shoot it, before it's last shot!
Wisdom would demand a person acquire a modern produced double-barrel shotgun: hammerless and preferably with automatic ejectors. Examples include a late 1970's/early 1980's vintage Browning BSS sporter, or Ithaca SKB 280-E English with straight grip English stock from same era, Italian Beretta, or whatever. Mostly these would be in 12 and 20 gauge, not so much 16 gauge. A post World War II (1939-1945) double-barrel shotgun whether American (a Savage-Fox BSE for instance) or
Japanese, Brazilian, or European import fabricated of modern high strength steels, chrome lined bores, etc. is designed
for modern high pressure smokeless powder shotgun shells. Unfortunately these won't be cheap. However, they would no
doubt be less expensive, and far safer, than attempting to upgrade or alter an ancient late 19th century (turn of the century)
vintage double-barrel shotgun with Belgian Damascus or "twist" barrels. Too, a modern double-barrel shotgun will likewise
chamber and fire brass shotgun shells with black powder. Black powder in original Damascus barrel shotguns? Considering
the age, metallurgy, attrition, and minute rust and corrosion invisible to the human eye even this practice is questionable?
About 20 years ago I did fire several 12 gauge black powder shells through an 1882 "outside hammer" Parker double-
barrel shotgun with original Twist barrels. However, I'd be reluctant to ever attempt this again.
Only safe load is a light Black Powder Load or get them sleeved..
What brand of shotgun is that in the bottom?
I was looking at some 10 ga shotguns online today and they looked similar to yours, but they said paper loads, 10 ga bore but 12 ga black power. How do I know if it can take 10 ga shells and weather or not it can handle modern 10 ga shells that shoot steel?
Short answer no . Most older 10 ga are 2 7/8 i think or 2 1/2 in in shell length. Modern 10 ga are 3 1/2 in length. Correct Handloading will be the only way the use the gun to its full potential and assure it fires safety. I mean Quality handloads of correct length Black powder shells handloaded by a knowledgeable handloader.
I have a side lever double almost like the top gun and I shoot it all the time with low brass shells. As long as the barrels are NOT pitted on the inside it should be safe to fire. If pitted bad, loose, off the "Face", leave it alone, or get it fixed by someone who knows what they are doing.
Wtf does low brass matter ? God you're not very smart are you
How did you get the Damascus look of lines on it on the barrels that is
They were made that way
1891 James Lang from London reproofed 2 3/4" Nitro 1 1/8 oz. Should last another 100 years. If you have a classic send it in for evaluation and reproof.
you can put Pyrodex in modern plastic shells can you
You're probably right, but I'm just going to play it safe and not shoot it.
i thought you were going to shoot them?????
The gun you have there. The top one. Is that a W. Harris by chance? I have an old shotgun that could be it's twin. Same metal work and stock. If it is a W. Harris do you have any info about this gun manufacture? Good video. I was thinking about those adaptors they sell. Like the adaptor that would convert a 12 G. into a 410/45 LC or 20 G. The adaptor should take the brunt of the blast. And I am thinking of cutting the barrel down to 18 or 20 inches to reduce the pressures when fired.
You're another idiot
Just use low brass loads no problem
MCA sports in Alaska is my favorite source for inserts! (You still have to be careful about pressure of your load on the action!) If in doubt, fire remotely at first.
exactly, why the hell would you do anything else?
Is the w& c scott & sons shot gun for sale?
It's not for sale.
my dad shoots his 12g one all the time with low brass bird shot
it was always well taken care of tho, these dont look to have been
WTF DOES LOW BRASS MEAN ?? thats the dumbest renmark I've ever read to date . OK Children ONCE AGAIN here we go BLACK POWDER loads ONLY boys and girls. If you can't load your own( and by reading your post you prolly can't. ) Find someone who can .
@@Craig-sz9yb Wrong. Look into the 1894 Remington! Quality damascus guns were proofed with smokeless powder! Albeit light loads and yes low brass means nothing their are heavy low brass loads and light high brass loads.
I'M OWN THIS MAKE Gun whatmake, ? I don't know
Load two rifled high-brass slugs, pull both triggers at the same time.
Why
if they are pre 1898 then they would be legal for a prohibited person to own like a Muzzleloader correct
I will just have to make my own ammunition
Brett Duffy are you a felon?
I am prohibited until my adjudication withheld is over from New Jersey for not registering a BB gun
Brett Duffy do you still have residence there? And how long will your adjudication last?
I no longer live there I have about 7 more months
Brett Duffy well sir, if you have the cash I'd recommend getting a cap and ball revolver, (preferably a Remington) and a Kurst cartridge door converter. The two items separate are not legally a handgun until put together. So you can have it put away. Or just buy a Remington and spare cylinders and have a black powder revolver that works as well as a modern revolver. At the end of your 7 months sell it and buy something more modern.
czarny proch plus nitro
What are the brand's of those two
The top gun is a William Moore of London. The other is some kind of European model.
can i shoot a 12ga blank round? since its fastburning powder im not sure if it's safe
Can some tell me what the valve of old shot gun in fair shape
Neil Mullins $200-100
Look at similar guns on gunbroker dot com and see what they're selling for. There are other online and text book resources as well. Just have to do a little research.
J'ai un fusil qui ressemble celui-ci calibre 12 belge
What about Kent Pure Gold 2 1/2 shell they were made for the old shotguns...would those work...
Absolutely, provided the old gun has neither been grossly abused or neglected.
No
Load the damn things with they are supposed to be loaded with . Anything for a utube video Smfh 🙄
You need to talk to a real gunsmith and not believe all the hooey you read online. The myth of damascus/twist steel barrels being inherently weak came from poorly manufactured guns from sub par makers. Yes damascus is weaker than fluid steel but it is not inherently dangerous to use with smokeless powder, several manufacturers make 2-1/2" light compression loads that are perfectly safe in quality damascus barreled guns. Remington proofed all of their model 1894 and 1900's with damascus barrels with smokeless powder for one. Loading with blackpowder is definitely and option though and can be done with no special tools.
Prove to me Damascus is inherently weaker. What fountain of knowledge did get that from?
Horrible video
zzzzzzzzzzzzz
First !!