"Suitably licenced and qualified" was definitiely not what was portrayed in the media. I was certain there was more to the story and was eagerly waiting for your video on it, thank you!
It is very sad how the media took a hold of this, but unsurprising. As a bus driver, my company is the same in that you still need to go through non mandatory training and a few weeks supervision even after passing the mandatory tests and getting your licence, before they ultimately sign you off as fully qualified. They don't have to do that but it is going above and beyond to ensure the safety of our passengers. Bus or plane the principle is the same, and having the public throw things around like "untrained pilot" is just wrong and fear mongering.
you are spot on, and on top of that these media posts can also ruin a company's name even though if they hadn't returned back to London to switch crew, most likely we wouldn't have heard from this
Our bus got lost. We had to guide it back to the actual route. The guy could drive, got round some very tight corners he’d obviously been driving another route for too long & it was now late evening, new route. He could have done with a buddy to check his first run. Not because he wasn’t experienced and calm when he was told of his mistake. But because his autopilot in his head meant he did what he’d always done. As a passenger it was funny, definitely no ‘horror on the 12 bus route as driver misses turning.’
Just goes to show how scummy the media is and yet people still buy into the bullspit they are peddling. It's time to send a message to these talking heads and hopefully more of them end up unemployed forcing them to learn to code or something. I'm tired of their lies.
"Newspapers" such as the Daily Mail can't even put stock pictures of the correct aircraft in their stories, so I would not expect them to get the nuance of this story. I have more faith in the people at the front of the aircraft than I do in newspapers telling me the truth these days.
/s I'm sure it was fully fact checked though! I mean the fact checker probably has a degree in ancient Egyptian literature so they are defiantly qualified to talk about the aviation industry right?! /s
When I first saw the story they portrayed it as if this first officer was on his first day as a pilot. UNBELIEVABLE how many people told me this story second hand and sensationalized it! I'm sending each of them the link to this video right now. Virgin is due some respect for that decision!
That's also what I do : I mail the medias and/or post the "evidence" on their social media. Most of the time, I get temporarly or permanently banned and the mail probably goes deletion direct. However I recall at least a handfull public corrective statements from some main newspapers in my country (a few days later), some notable efforts from less established news feeders (mostly on Facebook), and taught my relatives to give a trust score to any media (especially Facebook - and stop sharing a unsourced or unverified claim). Was depressing at the beginning, but quite routine today. A better world depends on the number of people doing the right small things against the number of people doing it all wrong.
@@StephenKarl_Integral Many online news sources used to have a comment section at the bottom of their articles. However, most news outlets have removed these comment sections because commenters would often correct the so-called professional journalists.
@@Eternal_Tech So true 😅And others have come up with another workaround : you must pay a fee to be able to retrieve older articles. So, most people aren't willing to pay, and avoid to post any comment because it becomes private in only a week. I also know someone in the industry who told me they use a bot to flood the comment section with garbage when there is an offending one. I can't confirm if it's real and widely used, but it makes sense.
@@Eternal_Tech It's amazing really. The so called professionals act like little kids plugging their ears when people call them out. I will not believe a word anyone says when they go the path of censorship and don't allow any open response.
@@Eternal_Tech It is ironic that correction is one of the foundations of safety. Making a mistake once is forgivable; continuing to make the same mistake is intolerable.
Your point about nervous passengers watching your videos is spot on. My daughter thinks I'm crazy "watching plane crashes", but it has in fact, made me feel better about flying. The immense professionalism has given me a sense of security. Things I'd never even considered, I now have a better understanding of.
Fair play to virgin for, firstly, realising the mistake and secondly sticking to their guns, following procedure and rectifying it despite as petter said the fact it was going to have a financial impact. Goes to show the just culture runs right through the company. For an employee to see the mistake and then feel confident enough to raise it even tho the flight was already on route speaks volumes.
This irresponsible coverage might influence other airlines to make less safe decisions and avoid a similar roasting for what was actually a very good decision. I’m a nervous flyer even though (thankfully) I have never experienced any adverse events during flights. Thanks to Mentour Pilot’s content, I now understand so much more. I realize that a lot of my discomfort with flying comes just the type of irresponsible media coverage exemplified in this video. Every time there’s the slightest aviation issue so much emphasis is placed on how unsafe the passengers were that it makes it sound like it’s a miracle anyone survives every time they get on a plane. The media should have praised Virgin for what they did and educated consumers about the importance of/different types of training so that we can create demand for highly trained crew rather than other indicators. Virgin is not going to change based on this coverage, but other smaller carriers are going to take note of this public reaction and may decide not to put too much emphasis on their own line training to avoid a similar situation. On a related note, as a consumer often the easiest and most lauded information available about an airline is whether they are on time with their flights. Now that I understand so much better, I wish I knew more about things like how committed the airline is to providing training, if they have a safety-first (rather arrive at all costs) mindset, if they provide accommodations for their pilots so pilots don’t have to fly tired because their home is far way, etc.
Actually, that is what media wants. More accidents, so they have more to talk about, and get more clickbaits. Media needs a huge overview, the bad press is getting out of the control, and the good press is dying under the mud.
I read about this in Australia. There was no sensational headline. The article also went on to state that both pilots were qualified (although the co-pilot had not done final assessment) and that Virgin Atlantic standards went above and beyond industry standards. The article was more about passengers whinging about delays.
@@GlennDavey wow, more misleading comments. I’m one of the 8 in 10 Aussies that isn’t related to poms. Don’t speak for the other 70% including indigenous people that would NEVER associate with being English FFS…..
In most English speaking countries "fired" implies "dismissed for cause". Thus the first officer may have been "laid off", but if he had been fired he would not likely have been re-hired. Keep up the good work Petter!
This is definitely regional / subjective. For me, "fired" implies an individual termination, but not necessarily for cause in the legal sense of the word. IE "I was fired because I can't work Tuesdays and that's when they need people". Whereas a layoff implies something solely due to lack of need.
That’s the first time in years of watching your videos and being a member of Patreon that I think I have heard you say something “pisses me off”. Lol But I respect where you are coming from. I have patients who read or hear about things in the news all the time that end up afraid of treatment due to the sensationalized inaccurate information the media puts out there.
Hats off to Virgin for keeping safety above all else. Thanks for making this video. Real truth needs to be told, and no one does it better than Mentour
They don't care about safety, all airlines care is about their survival. If something happens to the plane and it was uncovered the first officer hasn't completed his test, it would bring so much blame against the company and its image will be tarnished and not to mention the FAA would ground and fine them.
@@krisr5228 did you miss the part where the agency states that both pilots were qualified? Watch the video before commenting shit like those moronic journalists
@@krisr5228 stfu! What r u even saying? They do care ab Safety, cuz that’s how they’ll ensure their survival 😹 How can they ensure survival without taking care of safety procedures? U make no sense lol
@@krisr5228 a lot of other airlines would have just kept going, as there’s a 99.999% chance the plane lands without incident. So either they’re super paranoid about liability, or they actually do have a safety culture. Considering Virgin is one of the safest airlines in history, I’m going with the latter.
Hi Petter, as a reasonably infrequent flyer, I used to get a bit of anxiety when flying. Since watching your channel, this anxiety has gone completely. I now understand all the noises the aircraft is making and why they are making it, I also understand the tremendous work and effort that goes into making every flight as safe as possible along with the professionalism and skill of the crews. Thanks for this and keep up the great work. You are a true ambassador for this industry.
Well said. This is a wonderful demonstration of what can be done with a UA-cam channel. It is very professional informative, real, practical, and entertaining. I can't use the word professional enough when talking about mentor pilot! This is a great use of technology, the internet. The production level I'll show shows how dedicated and passionate he is about being not only a pilot but being an entertainer, a teacher, and a great leader.
I applaud Virgin Atlantic for doing the right thing immediately to correct an administrative error. As for the media producing sensationalized headlines and reports, that's doing a disservice to the public and eroding the public trust. Also, search engine optimization and UA-cam's algorithm do encourage creating click-bait titles.
I might have decided otherwise if I'd been them, since the flight was legal and safe after all and diverting it would only frustrate the passengers. I'd have let them go and done so that the administrative mistake won't happen again. But I'm not them.
@@materliliorum But in the incredibly minute chance something would have happed the insurance would have been invalid. This incident shows why Virgin are in the top 10 safest airlines in the world.
One of the things that Virgin had to face here was the insurance requirements. Once a company has set up a procedure, it becomes part of the basis for their insurance rate and insurability. Any deviations from their required training could jeopardize the agreement in force, and could taint ensuing and ongoing risk assessments. Just as a lost pilot should climb, confess, and comply, the first duty (legally and financially) of a company that has violated an insured procedure is to correct the failed process as quickly as possible. I'm surprised they didn't send them to Shannon or Belfast and get a replacement pilot out to them by air courier.
Thank you for pointing out that concern. Not that it's a new twist, but, it's better to have all possible factors on the table when picturing a situation and find out if someting has to be done about, and serve as a basis for analysing future situations. It takes everyone's expertise at their respective order of importance to have an accurate assessment.
Maybe the captain wanted a female copilot? Have you seen these girls, always drop dead gorgeous.My pilot from sjo to yul was a girl, walked beside her.Just smooth.I wanted to put a leash around my neck and let her walk me home!!LMAO.Smooth take off, smooth landing. Very skilled.HUUM!
The press have been absolutely terrible recently. It seems like they are inept at understanding actual detail in situations and just jump on a story because they can make it sound like clickbait. And then it spreads because all newspapers copy each other and suddenly it's a worldwide crisis. The same happened with a British guy called Bald and Bankrupt on UA-cam who didn't haver a permit to Baikonur cosmodrome, was questioned on where his pass was, and then returned to his hotel in Kazakhstan of his own accord. Next morning it was all over the world's press saying he was arrested by the Russian army for trespassing in a top secret location etc. Meanwhile this UA-camr was like 'guys I'm fine I'm in my hotel eating lunch'
They do that a lot and it is probably a mix of ineptitude, laziness and target fixation (having found a scoop and not seeing the contradictions anymore). I've read press articles to death numbers of vaccines in multiple countries. Not one of these journalists read the studies they were quoting,.They were quoting the cover data summary or overview graphics, not the studies themselves. In one study the introduction on page 3 immediately contextualized that death numbers actually meant people who died after getting the vaccine, but none actually showed a solid connection to the vaccine. In another study it was on page 80 or so. Sadly most journalists don't read more than the first page(s). Even worse, the newspapers just portrayed the total number of deaths analyzed an claimed that the study said they were linked to vaccines. The opposite of what the quoted studies actually said. Many news outlets sadly are a joke in fact checking and while there are many, some valid, excuses to be made, it creates a real problem that even renowned news outlets public wrong news, which in the end is just as harmful as intentional fake news.
@@denidale4701 Journalism is the worst career path. They think they have the glory of bringing the truth. Everything behind the free speech shield. Absolutely trash people.
@@denidale4701 I don't consider them journalists anymore. Most can't write an article that gets passed their own personal biases let alone is factually accurate.
@@denidale4701 the problem is social medias. I'm old enough to remember before internet. Media are all about scoop. Before internet they could take their time, investigate, confirm everything with many source. News was on tv from 5 to 7pm. Now, news are 24/24. If they wait 5 sec, they will lose the scoop. Everyone will already be talking about it. They just don't have time to make sure it's true before it become old news. Add to that, anyone can buy a camera and record "news" in a small room. They cannot compete and they have so much more hours to fill. The only way is sensational title, outrage to attract eyes, opinions more than news because they just don't have the time to do more. All because the rule of the normal world doesn't apply on internet. A plumber could run news about Ukraine on UA-cam and be followed if he sound credible enough.
My theory is that the press is doing a form of trolling. They piss of both the people who are quick to anger and slow to understand, and those who already know about the topic. Many others are just there for the show, to watch whatever interesting is supposedly happening.
Well done to Virgin Atlantic for sticking to the rules and admitting a mistake. By no means is the F/O to be professionally diminished. He's certainly qualified but sadly he just suffered the consequences of these two years of madness to cut it short. I didn't believe any of the BS the MSM were saying about it and I'm glad I was right. Thank you for this vid Captain.
It seems pretty clear that the F/O made no errors there at all. It's pretty reasonable to expect that the scheduling system will ensure that a pilot will not get scheduled on a flight that does not meet all the conditions required for that pilot, such as being an aircraft on which he's qualified, making sure he's in the seat (left or right, which is a separate thing from captain vs. FO) for which he's qualified, flying with another pilot qualified for the other seat, and so on. Needing to fly with a line trainer is just another of the many requirements to be met. And it wasn't really the two years of madness that's the root cause of this; that just helped expose an apparent problem in Virgin's scheduling system.
From a management POV, having the aircraft return immediately was the right decision. The economic cost incurred is nothing compared to the risk to your insurance costs or opening yourself up for lawsuits.
There's also that recent story about the passenger with no flight experience landing a plane after the pilot was incapacitated. I listened to the radio logs with ATC and guy clearly knew something about aviation but was by no means qualified to fly. It was a far more impressive story than the Virgin administrative error.
The photos for the article I saw on it made it seem like it was a commercial plane, when in fact it was a Cessna. Doesn't make it any less impressive, just another way media conflates and sensationalizes to get clicks. Was very happy they landed safely (much kudos to the passenger) and relieved it wasn't a big plane.
@@amypondhikes More impressive indeed. Much less autopilot functionality and single engine aircraft. On the pluside easier to land a smaller aircraft in a field etc
I am a nervous flyer, but I love going abroad 😂😂😂 I watch tons on your videos and disaster documentaries. May sound a stupid thing to do being nervous, but it actually helps xxx
I have arachnophobia (it's impossible to explain or justify). At some point, I decided to learn more about spider til the point I can identify each species. I still have arachnophobia, that deep sense of insecurity, fear and despair when suddenly faced with spider, but, armed with knowledge, I can calm down very quickly and even play with them, overcome the uncomfort of feeling their web. I don't even kill them because they are good natural predators for flies and mosquitos which are an infestation in my country (Madagascar). Fortunately, I don't live in Australia. No spider in Madagascar is potentially deadly, some bites, only a few have venom (it's just painful, not damaging) and they only attack when threatened (or when a female is nursing and you happen to be nearby) So, yeah, I can relate, like, knowing more about what you fear is likely helping you overcome it in a way or another.
By far my favorite channel!! You have made me a less nervous flyer. I will always be anxious about flying but you and your content have made a huge positive impact. Keep up the great work!!
This would actually benefit Virgin Airlines cause nowadays UA-cam quickly picks up the heat about rumors, lies, and bad headlines. Once the truth is spread people would want to be a passenger on one of their aircraft. Also thanks for making this video.
@@luiskp7173 Rather, there are channels (or more accurately precise individuals) that at some point took the decision to be informative in a way you can verify or openly challenge statements/affirmations, shed lights on various matters, teach anyone how to cope with contradicting voices, where and why you should think again before trusting... this, at their own expense usually. Actually, there are quite a few of them, the vast portion of youtube being : - music, memes and gaming (entertainment) of no important information or educational purpose - another chunck people exposing their life and beliefs - another much smaller chuck of useful information - another chunck in constant monitoring of the next extraordinary claim (mostly false and toxic) to make money. The said "ministry of truth" is mainly motivated by the last chunck, but at some point when people in the wrong will claim they are also "ministry of truth" systematically at the start of their videos, yet again, youtube will revert back to the video-specific version of facebook it was once before, making your perception noisy and parasitic again. Best practice today is to listen to everyone and pick the few telling truth (after analysis) and boycot those lying to the world. Why ? Because people are just wasting their energy, money and time on irrelevant or wrong matters, then they blame the world while the problem is themselves. The bad news is, youtube algorythm is doing its best to prevent the rise of smarter people. You can't find on youtube something that doesn't match what your history tells you watched, so, one who watches garbages cannot learn anything good on youtube, another who watches factual and verifiable information will have a better understanding of the world, this, increasing the fight between those who knows and those who are convinced to know while being wrong. The last possible potential cure on youtube (or any social media) is to post a seemingly controversial comment (the self proclaimed "ministry of truth") and for anyone to open his window to proceed on the verification process. That's why "truth claimers" are annoying, people just want to stay in their comfort zone despite this making their life miserable. Nothing has changed over the centuries. We are not becomming more "civilized and intelligent" on a global scale.
@@StephenKarl_Integral "You can't find on youtube something that doesn't match what your history tells you watched, so, one who watches garbages cannot learn anything good on youtube..." Um... Do you NOT have a "search" bar (labeled and everything) at the top-center of your screen??? Scroogle who re-arranged their stocks through a new shell company called "Alphabet" was ORIGINALLY just a search-engine... They DO still own UA-cam... AND my browser has a search-bar... Does a pretty damn solid job when I pop up there and search for content I haven't watched before... whether it's more instructional or psychological or based on critical thinking and fallacies (refreshers are a good idea)... OR I'm just searching up the dubious (or garbage) video being discussed by someone else under the "ministry of truth" banner to watch the whole thing myself, since so few ever actually put the entirety of content on their own vid's instead of cherry-picking critical segments they can bash easily... I've gotten used to smelling a "hatchet job" in the past... AND if you really WANT to alter what YT has to offer, make a habit of leaving a like and even a silly comment for those things you've had to "run a search for" if you're interested in the subject... I go as far (to manipulate the algorythms) as to watch entirely and like and comment on at LEAST two (2) videos related to whatever subject I was originally checking out if I want more of "that sort of thing"... It really helps shift my feed... and it's not like it's all that difficult... I DO get that with phones and tablets (not having true external keyboards) it can be a pain in the ass, but it's hardly impossible. ;o)
This is a wonderful demonstration of just what can be accomplished using a UA-cam channel! It is very professional informative, real, practical, and entertaining. I can't use the word professional enough when talking about mentor pilot! The production level shows how dedicated and passionate he is about being not only a pilot but being an entertainer, a teacher, and a great leader. Bravo, Mentour Pilot.
I have a real problem with media in general. I am so pleased you have highlighted this so called mid Atlantic horror flight. I fly with Virgin Atlantic, and I know they go above and beyond. We don't need bullsh1t, we need positive press to get people up in the air as soon as possible, returning the industry to flying fit.
More of the media need to find themselves fired and forced to find work elsewhere. Learn to Code wasn't a hashtag for no reason. The media have gone so far downhill that the public is starting to trust them less and less.
You’re bang on.., my Wife would cry for weeks before we flew.., she didn’t a the fly without fear course here in 🇳🇿.., now she’s an aviation fan girl &&&& flys near full time in her roles travel….. Film near everyone take off, views & landing… Shame I’m very emotional just thinking of the difference for her…! & I… Our very married happiness really suffered in those years before the course… 🙏 thank you to You and all our aviation professionals…., you are one of the few industries that got survive the fallout and still stand tall… Kia Kaha (stand tall) Te Reo🙏🌹
Hell yeah! I'm a nervous flyer but flying from PDX to the UK next week with my 2 kids to visit family and what you said at the end just made me look forward to this trip!
Petter, excellent video and explanation of what really happened. Your disdain for the media is warranted. When I first saw this, I knew that it was not safety-related and that it's important to follow procedures in order to maintain the aviation industry's superb safety record.
The media is just awful. There was a fire in my hometown and the papers went straight to blaming the homeowners before even a police investigation had started. Turned out the homeowners were innocent but people still today talk about the fire like it was their fault. Horrible
Oddly enough it was watching your channel that got me to actually read multiple articles to puzzle out what happened. Those articles also used enough language that had I not watched your videos, I probably would not have puzzled it out. Keep up the great work.
The trouble is that most passengers don't want just A to B; their journeys are X to A to B to Y and it is those landside elements that can significantly influence the choice of journey mode.
When I first read about this incident, I immediately thought that the real "rostering error" was not with the FO, but with the Captain. The FO was just more easily replecable.
I am a nervous passenger. I have survived 3 air crashes, sudden arrivals and forced landings (in the armed forces). I saw this headline and could not believe it. Thank God for your channel! I did, however, read a fuller account in a less sensational daily paper and got the same message as you passed on. I will always be a nervous passenger but your Tube will keep me flying to see relatives etc. Thank you.
I have acrophobia, and I have never enjoyed flying because I just prefer long distance train travel. My wife asks why I watch your channel, and that’s just it: by listening to a detailed list of everything that had to go wrong to end up with a plane incident, I feel more comfortable. I doubt I’ll fly in the US domestically, because I’d hate a six hour flight to NY to LA, and enjoy a three day train trip. But maybe I’ll be able to make traveling across the Atlantic again a reality that doesn’t involve two weeks on a cruise ship never really designed for comfortable ocean crossing.
All due respect to the journalists and reporters who were just trying to do their jobs but this is why I only get aviation news from you and your website.
People should search; "how many flights are there per day?" Over 100,000 flights per day around the world. Go sit out by your local airport like DFW airport and watch the enormous non stop air traffic for 24 hours and there are no issues. Flying is so safe. More people die in the automotive traffic around the air port every day than people injured in planes every year.
I live by a quiet airport and it still has a good ten flights a day sometimes. Seen a few go arounds and seen flights in all manner of weather. Never a problem and I'm close enough to the airport to see everything
I am one of those nervous passengers, who always feel uncomfortable when I travel with a plane. But since I watch many of your videos here, slowly but sure i become more calm…. Thanks for your videos in this channel, i love to watch and learn many things from them…. Good job for you. God bless you…..
I read three or four articles about this and literally the only one I read that actually explained what happened with context (much like you) was BBC News, all of the other commercial outlets totally failed to mention anywhere within the articles the context for why the pilot was in “training” but still qualified
And even then BBC used the same garbage headline as everyone else. Only those who read the article got the correct explanation (even if provided in quotes) and based on the twitter replies they were a tiny fraction...
These sensational headlines are really a case of “short term gain, long term loss” in my opinion. They might get some extra attention immediately, but when people’s trust in them is eroded when they find out the truth. Every time I see these sensationalized headlines, my heart sinks a bit at the thought that I’ll have to wade through a load of hyperbole before I can find the actual truth.
I remember a flight that I was fortunate to be on. It wasn't completely full . The pilot said that we would be leaving an hour and a half late, as cargo was being loaded on the plane. One gentleman that was late made the flight. Having watched these videos I understood what was going on.
@@TesterAnimal1 Sometimes greed drives ambition and drives the need for change. Sometimes greed can be good if used in the right way. Few things are inherently evil and few things completely innocent
As usual you lay it on the line as it really is. I like using your channel as a 'standard' by which to view the aviation world. I know you will keep it up. 👍
I'm curious, though. Should the pilot have known he shouldn't be flying that flight according to Virgin rules? Did he just assume he was flying with a line training captain, did he think he was not still in training, or did he not know Virgin's rules?
Wanted to say thank you for your videos. I am one of those nervous fliers who hadn't been o a plane for a decade. You and your videos have gotten me to fly one again. Thank you.
I rarely fly any more, but when I was younger, I flew a lot, both short and long haul, including across the Atlantic. I always enjoyed it, and never felt any qualms about flying. I had a friend who was a captain at Northeast Airlines, so I knew how exhaustive the training was, for a commercial pilot. You're a lot safer on a commercial flight, than you are crossing the street, or going down a set of stairs. The view is better, too.
You are precisely correct. The first officer, who was experienced and fully qualified on this aircraft, was returning to duty after a period of inactivity. Virgin Atlantic require them to complete eight flights with a training captain before returning to the normal roster. The first officer had only completed seven of these and had yet to complete the eighth, and final, such flight.
When I saw the headline I thought the rule they had accidentally broken was to put two pilots in the same cockpit who were both new in type. The idea that they would put an untrained rookie in the cockpit of a transatlantic flight was too far fetched to even take seriously as click bait.
Thanks for the video, as a nervous flyer I take comfort in your videos content even the tragic event sometimes covered. It nice to see your personality and professionalism come through like all your colleagues in the aviation industry.
I really don't think that the video title sits well with you being really pissed off about the media sensationalizing this incident. If you title it "Virgin Airbus A330 Return Due to Untrained Pilot?", most people will correctly read it as soberly asking "Did they return due to an untrained pilot?" But the headline you have, "Virgin Airbus A330 Return due UNTRAINED PILOT?!" really does look like you're saying "Virgin put an untrained pilot on an A330? WTF?!? That's INSANE!" I certainly read it that way and I think it's very easy for people to misunderstand it that way.
I assume it's related to line managers, the managers of the people who are directly producing a company's products or analogously in other fields of business.
Love this! I almost never subscribe for money but this video brought your channel home for me. I love flying, I was a private pilot before I had an injury that made me a passenger only but I have still followed the industry closely and live vicariously through channels like yours. Thank you for everything you do for me and the industry as a whole.
I really like this video, and completely agree with your point regarding sensationalism in the media. It did strike me however that in your choice of title you say "untrained" which does seem to go along with the same way media portrayed this. Anyway just a thought, love the channel.
Hmm… good point. Since I love all this content I don’t pay too much attention to the titles. But you’re right-maybe having the title saying “true story behind” would immediately reveal that we didn’t get the right information.
Excellently explained as always Petter! Watching your videos has always reaffirmed my faith in the commercial aviation industry. The press has a lot to answer for unfortunately. Keep up the great work!
It might be interesting to recount the cockpit conversation that lead to them, apparently not having noticed this discrepancy originally, and then discovering it later. Seems like they could have caught the mistake prior to takeoff. Nevertheless, yes, I certainly agree that they made the right decision, and that the headlines were … ignorant.
What would be the conversation, when the FO does everything a FO is supposed to do in a timely manor (demonstrates familiarity with the craft, no fumbles)?
I discovered your UA-cam channel a couple of weeks ago. I've been watching your videos every day since! I'm not a pilot but have been interested in aviation for more than 50 years. I really appreciate your commentary and perspective. Thank you!
Reading the story in the news I did see the "suitably licenced and qualified" bit in the one I read which wasn't as bad as just the headline was. But even then, I was thinking a brand new pilot post qualification undergoing Virgin own extra training rather than a post-COVID returning pilot.
I didn’t know that! How terrible! Not only do they have to put up with increasingly more disrespectful passengers and also be willing to put their own lives at risk if there’s an accident, but to also not be compensated for time they spend doing flight-related tasks…. That is very unjust.
Thank you once again for being the voice of reality in our metal flying bird world. Your forthright comments on the ins and outs, the truth behind the events, is very much appreciated! Thank you again, Petter!
It's great to hear an honest appraisal of appalling media behaviour at 9:40, "... and that really pisses me off!" An airline has nothing to gain by shortcutting it's own operating procedures, even though they maybe above the "minimum required" by the aviation industry. Thankyou.
Petter, please keep on supporting (and defending) our dream-industry just the way you're doing it, because from my point of view, you are doing it tre-men-dous-ly fantastic! I'm incredibly proud of you and the way you do your utmost best to present the reality of this industry like it really is or should be. Hope to be able to meet you in person one day.
I had no doubt that this story had been abused as a clickbait by the media, and that the safety of the flight and passengers was never in danger. I only wonder if the pilots might or not have been be aware that their match was unauthorized. I mean, the first officer knew he was undergoing his training, should he have checked with his captain that he was a trainer? Is there any obligation for the pilots to check their mutual experience/status? If they were totally unaware, I can only imagine how surprised they must have been when they were called back by the company. Love your channel, thank you for this amazing work.
Nervous flier here! And I'm doing MUCH better exactly thanks to your videos about accidents (and the fearofflying subreddit lol) Thank you man, keep up the good work!
Petter, this is unfortunately a standard from media across all sectors - I truly hope for Virgin Atlantic to claim damages from some of the( especially newspapers) news media that should have a responsible reporting obligation. Social media is lethal as there are simply too many unqualified individuals that can report about such events. You channel is truly a very good way to set facts straight!!!
I'm so glad you addressed this situation head on, the world media are completely irresponsible in all aspects of reporting. I agree, watching your channel has made me extremely aware of the excellent processes and procedures that all pilots undertake. I think the airline industry is probably the safest and highly skilled group of individuals in any industry. I love flying and I have never questioned the integrity of the flight crew on any airline. Many other industries could learn so much from pilot training and all other aspects of the airline industry. Thank you so much for this much needed clarification!! PS: I wonder if the media would look at the facts as you have presented them and retract their publications (LOL!!!!!)
Other industries not only could but _do_ learn from aviation. Reading NTSB accident reports and a lot of similar material has heavily influenced my work in system design and resilience in software development and deployment. Perhaps the most notable example is medicine; Atul Gawande has covered this extensively. His book _The Checklist Manifesto_ covers that and many other areas of business.
Petter, great job explaining what happened. You are correct when you call out the media. They have to sensationalize everything and have no regard for the damage that their actions can have on a company or individual.
sadly there are only a few news outlets on this planet i truly trust. But 2 of the most trusted had an untrained pilot article. Im so glad you cleared this up, thank you as always, i really apperciate the work that goes into your vids, so thank you also to the other people who help make these vids possible.
I have flown at least 4 times in my life and I always enjoyed it and after subscribing to your channel for a couple of years I have learned just how much training is involved in the cabin and flight crews. I am certain that the pilots in this plane were quite capable of flying it, however I commend Virgin Airlines for not only recalling the flight but making it known to the authorities and the public as well as taking the loss in revenue and helping the passengers getting to their destinations. If I were to fly overseas I would certainly fly on their airline because they do take the safety of everyone on board seriously. Thank you for sharing this.
Fantastic video bro!Your personality, attitude and delivery is second to none to both professional airline staff and laypersons. You should have 5 stripes!
I'm a carpenter (since Uber killed the cab business) but I enjoy training other people. I think the reason I like your videos is that you explain things enthusiastically and without making us feel dumb. That's how I like to treat people with less experience than myself.
Hi Petter Thanks for this. I cant tell you how much i enjoy your analysis. I think you are spot on. FWIW I couldnt be more respectful of your intellect, analysis and approach. I think you are a beacon of truth for the industry. Im a consumer of your business but a regular flier (maybe once a week) and it matters to me a lot that it is healthy. As such, thank you very much for what you do. The industry needs you
Thank you for helping us understand the situation. Too many times I’ve seen where shortcuts were taken. Here the only extreme measure was the airline adhering to its own protocols.
Hey Peter. Did you see the Light aircraft landed by a passenger in Long Beach this week? That would make a cool video when there’s more info on the incident. He did an almost textbook landing!
I appreciate you posting this and giving a thorough explanation. To your point about people approaching you and looking to you for guidance about flying and calming nerves, I think that's a testament to your methods. I have found that since watching your channel, I have a hard or impossible time watching most others. This is primarily because so many accident video posters try to build the sensational aspects and make the events seem even more horrific. Anyway, Thank you for your fantastic videos and posts.
It's one of the safest airlines on the planet. Fully trained crew with state of the art fleet. They as Mentour said done much more then required to safely fly to KJFK. Their crew is not only fully professional and trained but as well they are best in business. Follow them on Instagram, they are happy to speak to people and I would fly with them anytime i'd be able to fly. Great job Petter.. "media" these days ....well I miss times when there was no internet sometimes those cheap "news outlets" would die quickly!
Media has, in general, a wrong attitude to aviation. It's like that it's pure magic that an aircraft can fly. Not long time ago did a major Norwegian newspaper report a runway excursion in the US. Nobody was hurt. And the aircraft was not damaged. At the same day did about 100 Americans lose their life in road accidents. We never hear about that... Thank you, Petter, for your excellent work.
Taking this opportunity to thank you for your content 😊 I'm a nervous flyer too and I do exactly what you describe, watching your videos to calm myself by getting to know what is really happening, onboard and in the industry and learning how many safely measures are actually being taken. It helps a lot!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I'm so tired of headline writers trying to grab people's attention for the sole purpose of generating clicks! I appreciate you - and all others who strive to get the true story out. Keep at it - I fully support all your efforts! Thanks!
"Suitably licenced and qualified" was definitiely not what was portrayed in the media. I was certain there was more to the story and was eagerly waiting for your video on it, thank you!
There's a reason they're known as #scummedia.
@@wycombewanderer6649 👍👍
@@wycombewanderer6649 nobody actually knows this, except for some wackadoos.
Idk I read this story in the Guardian and it was made pretty clear it was a company policy, not a regulatory one
@@hayleyxyz I did not understand him to say every media outlet was reporting incorrectly. Did you?
It is very sad how the media took a hold of this, but unsurprising. As a bus driver, my company is the same in that you still need to go through non mandatory training and a few weeks supervision even after passing the mandatory tests and getting your licence, before they ultimately sign you off as fully qualified. They don't have to do that but it is going above and beyond to ensure the safety of our passengers. Bus or plane the principle is the same, and having the public throw things around like "untrained pilot" is just wrong and fear mongering.
Indeed, exactly.
you are spot on, and on top of that these media posts can also ruin a company's name even though if they hadn't returned back to London to switch crew, most likely we wouldn't have heard from this
Our bus got lost. We had to guide it back to the actual route. The guy could drive, got round some very tight corners he’d obviously been driving another route for too long & it was now late evening, new route. He could have done with a buddy to check his first run. Not because he wasn’t experienced and calm when he was told of his mistake. But because his autopilot in his head meant he did what he’d always done. As a passenger it was funny, definitely no ‘horror on the 12 bus route as driver misses turning.’
Media today are great at using misleading headlines that are sometimes borderline lies.
Just goes to show how scummy the media is and yet people still buy into the bullspit they are peddling. It's time to send a message to these talking heads and hopefully more of them end up unemployed forcing them to learn to code or something. I'm tired of their lies.
The uk press especially was ridiculous in the amounts of misleading sensationalist headlines. Sickening
Par for the course, sadly…
Typical newsies.
So was the media in the US
Typical of the British newspapers, and yes, this is one of many aspects that does not make me proud to be British.
@@tomwilliam5118 Imagine US newspapers but 50% of the journalists are helicopter parents. That's the British press D:
"Newspapers" such as the Daily Mail can't even put stock pictures of the correct aircraft in their stories, so I would not expect them to get the nuance of this story. I have more faith in the people at the front of the aircraft than I do in newspapers telling me the truth these days.
There ARE some great aviation journalists out there but these newspapers are not great.
We call it the Daily Fail for a reason ;)
@@MentourNow You're probably one of them
/s I'm sure it was fully fact checked though! I mean the fact checker probably has a degree in ancient Egyptian literature so they are defiantly qualified to talk about the aviation industry right?! /s
Steve, I'd have more faith in you being up front on an aircraft than the Daily Mail telling the truth. And I have no idea who you are :-)
When I first saw the story they portrayed it as if this first officer was on his first day as a pilot. UNBELIEVABLE how many people told me this story second hand and sensationalized it! I'm sending each of them the link to this video right now. Virgin is due some respect for that decision!
That's also what I do : I mail the medias and/or post the "evidence" on their social media. Most of the time, I get temporarly or permanently banned and the mail probably goes deletion direct. However I recall at least a handfull public corrective statements from some main newspapers in my country (a few days later), some notable efforts from less established news feeders (mostly on Facebook), and taught my relatives to give a trust score to any media (especially Facebook - and stop sharing a unsourced or unverified claim). Was depressing at the beginning, but quite routine today. A better world depends on the number of people doing the right small things against the number of people doing it all wrong.
@@StephenKarl_Integral Many online news sources used to have a comment section at the bottom of their articles. However, most news outlets have removed these comment sections because commenters would often correct the so-called professional journalists.
@@Eternal_Tech So true 😅And others have come up with another workaround : you must pay a fee to be able to retrieve older articles. So, most people aren't willing to pay, and avoid to post any comment because it becomes private in only a week.
I also know someone in the industry who told me they use a bot to flood the comment section with garbage when there is an offending one. I can't confirm if it's real and widely used, but it makes sense.
@@Eternal_Tech It's amazing really. The so called professionals act like little kids plugging their ears when people call them out. I will not believe a word anyone says when they go the path of censorship and don't allow any open response.
@@Eternal_Tech It is ironic that correction is one of the foundations of safety. Making a mistake once is forgivable; continuing to make the same mistake is intolerable.
Your point about nervous passengers watching your videos is spot on. My daughter thinks I'm crazy "watching plane crashes", but it has in fact, made me feel better about flying. The immense professionalism has given me a sense of security. Things I'd never even considered, I now have a better understanding of.
Same
Fair play to virgin for, firstly, realising the mistake and secondly sticking to their guns, following procedure and rectifying it despite as petter said the fact it was going to have a financial impact.
Goes to show the just culture runs right through the company.
For an employee to see the mistake and then feel confident enough to raise it even tho the flight was already on route speaks volumes.
And the comany going public about it. What Gigachads.
good point
Apart from the fact it does look like very free publicity for the company.
@@hairyairey Have you seen the video? Most of the Newspapers made it seem as if Virgin uses untrained pilots, so more like a bad public view.
@@maxvandoorn3799 well if the newspapers have mangled the story so much that it's libel then that's more income for the airline!
This, Mentour is why you are one of my favourite channels unbiased truth. Well done!
This irresponsible coverage might influence other airlines to make less safe decisions and avoid a similar roasting for what was actually a very good decision. I’m a nervous flyer even though (thankfully) I have never experienced any adverse events during flights. Thanks to Mentour Pilot’s content, I now understand so much more. I realize that a lot of my discomfort with flying comes just the type of irresponsible media coverage exemplified in this video. Every time there’s the slightest aviation issue so much emphasis is placed on how unsafe the passengers were that it makes it sound like it’s a miracle anyone survives every time they get on a plane. The media should have praised Virgin for what they did and educated consumers about the importance of/different types of training so that we can create demand for highly trained crew rather than other indicators. Virgin is not going to change based on this coverage, but other smaller carriers are going to take note of this public reaction and may decide not to put too much emphasis on their own line training to avoid a similar situation.
On a related note, as a consumer often the easiest and most lauded information available about an airline is whether they are on time with their flights. Now that I understand so much better, I wish I knew more about things like how committed the airline is to providing training, if they have a safety-first (rather arrive at all costs) mindset, if they provide accommodations for their pilots so pilots don’t have to fly tired because their home is far way, etc.
Actually, that is what media wants. More accidents, so they have more to talk about, and get more clickbaits. Media needs a huge overview, the bad press is getting out of the control, and the good press is dying under the mud.
Very well said.
Nothing is perfect, but statistically It's still way more likely a person could die in a road accident than an air accident,
Yes, totally agree...
Agree. The all caps words mislead the tone and severity of the situation. This is very click baity.
I read about this in Australia. There was no sensational headline. The article also went on to state that both pilots were qualified (although the co-pilot had not done final assessment) and that Virgin Atlantic standards went above and beyond industry standards. The article was more about passengers whinging about delays.
So going for the whinging pom stereotype? 😂
@@tnexus13 Aussies are just poms who adjusted to the heat by drinking and being lazy. But we whinge plenty.
Exactly the same reporting across the ditch in NZ too.
@@GlennDavey wow, more misleading comments. I’m one of the 8 in 10 Aussies that isn’t related to poms. Don’t speak for the other 70% including indigenous people that would NEVER associate with being English FFS…..
@@thelittlefarmmr Sorry, there's a lot going on in my reply. I'm being satirical. You're absolutely right, of course
In most English speaking countries "fired" implies "dismissed for cause". Thus the first officer may have been "laid off", but if he had been fired he would not likely have been re-hired. Keep up the good work Petter!
This is definitely regional / subjective. For me, "fired" implies an individual termination, but not necessarily for cause in the legal sense of the word. IE "I was fired because I can't work Tuesdays and that's when they need people". Whereas a layoff implies something solely due to lack of need.
First I've heard of this so I checked The Cambridge English Dictionary. They list Petter's use as correct.
Definitely means "for cause" in the UK, but I don't think that's the case in the US.
@@beeble2003 Does.
@@beeble2003 not necessarily in the UK - P&O were described as firing their staff and I've never understood that it to be that way...
That’s the first time in years of watching your videos and being a member of Patreon that I think I have heard you say something “pisses me off”. Lol
But I respect where you are coming from. I have patients who read or hear about things in the news all the time that end up afraid of treatment due to the sensationalized inaccurate information the media puts out there.
Yep, sometimes harder language is needed.
@@MentourNow I loved it, stay passionate Petter!
@@MentourNow not harder, just more passionate!
Hats off to Virgin for keeping safety above all else. Thanks for making this video. Real truth needs to be told, and no one does it better than Mentour
👍
They don't care about safety, all airlines care is about their survival. If something happens to the plane and it was uncovered the first officer hasn't completed his test, it would bring so much blame against the company and its image will be tarnished and not to mention the FAA would ground and fine them.
@@krisr5228 did you miss the part where the agency states that both pilots were qualified? Watch the video before commenting shit like those moronic journalists
@@krisr5228 stfu! What r u even saying? They do care ab Safety, cuz that’s how they’ll ensure their survival 😹
How can they ensure survival without taking care of safety procedures? U make no sense lol
@@krisr5228 a lot of other airlines would have just kept going, as there’s a 99.999% chance the plane lands without incident. So either they’re super paranoid about liability, or they actually do have a safety culture. Considering Virgin is one of the safest airlines in history, I’m going with the latter.
Hi Petter, as a reasonably infrequent flyer, I used to get a bit of anxiety when flying. Since watching your channel, this anxiety has gone completely. I now understand all the noises the aircraft is making and why they are making it, I also understand the tremendous work and effort that goes into making every flight as safe as possible along with the professionalism and skill of the crews. Thanks for this and keep up the great work. You are a true ambassador for this industry.
Well said. This is a wonderful demonstration of what can be done with a UA-cam channel. It is very professional informative, real, practical, and entertaining. I can't use the word professional enough when talking about mentor pilot! This is a great use of technology, the internet.
The production level I'll show shows how dedicated and passionate he is about being not only a pilot but being an entertainer, a teacher, and a great leader.
I applaud Virgin Atlantic for doing the right thing immediately to correct an administrative error. As for the media producing sensationalized headlines and reports, that's doing a disservice to the public and eroding the public trust. Also, search engine optimization and UA-cam's algorithm do encourage creating click-bait titles.
I might have decided otherwise if I'd been them, since the flight was legal and safe after all and diverting it would only frustrate the passengers. I'd have let them go and done so that the administrative mistake won't happen again. But I'm not them.
@@materliliorum
But in the incredibly minute chance something would have happed the insurance would have been invalid.
This incident shows why Virgin are in the top 10 safest airlines in the world.
Search engine in UA-cam shows what people wants to see. And people wants and likes click-baits.
@Saniay Swain Actually, people hate clickbait. It is a way of manipulating people.
One of the things that Virgin had to face here was the insurance requirements. Once a company has set up a procedure, it becomes part of the basis for their insurance rate and insurability. Any deviations from their required training could jeopardize the agreement in force, and could taint ensuing and ongoing risk assessments. Just as a lost pilot should climb, confess, and comply, the first duty (legally and financially) of a company that has violated an insured procedure is to correct the failed process as quickly as possible.
I'm surprised they didn't send them to Shannon or Belfast and get a replacement pilot out to them by air courier.
Probably both pilots needed replacing to comply with hours having flown already.
Thank you for pointing out that concern. Not that it's a new twist, but, it's better to have all possible factors on the table when picturing a situation and find out if someting has to be done about, and serve as a basis for analysing future situations. It takes everyone's expertise at their respective order of importance to have an accurate assessment.
Maybe the captain wanted a female copilot? Have you seen these girls, always drop dead gorgeous.My pilot from sjo to yul was a girl, walked beside her.Just smooth.I wanted to put a leash around my neck and let her walk me home!!LMAO.Smooth take off, smooth landing. Very skilled.HUUM!
@@anonymousxish gross
That's a good point, but I'd say in some other airlines they'd continue and try to cover it up
so, they still get the credit for returning back
The press have been absolutely terrible recently. It seems like they are inept at understanding actual detail in situations and just jump on a story because they can make it sound like clickbait. And then it spreads because all newspapers copy each other and suddenly it's a worldwide crisis.
The same happened with a British guy called Bald and Bankrupt on UA-cam who didn't haver a permit to Baikonur cosmodrome, was questioned on where his pass was, and then returned to his hotel in Kazakhstan of his own accord. Next morning it was all over the world's press saying he was arrested by the Russian army for trespassing in a top secret location etc. Meanwhile this UA-camr was like 'guys I'm fine I'm in my hotel eating lunch'
They do that a lot and it is probably a mix of ineptitude, laziness and target fixation (having found a scoop and not seeing the contradictions anymore). I've read press articles to death numbers of vaccines in multiple countries. Not one of these journalists read the studies they were quoting,.They were quoting the cover data summary or overview graphics, not the studies themselves. In one study the introduction on page 3 immediately contextualized that death numbers actually meant people who died after getting the vaccine, but none actually showed a solid connection to the vaccine. In another study it was on page 80 or so. Sadly most journalists don't read more than the first page(s). Even worse, the newspapers just portrayed the total number of deaths analyzed an claimed that the study said they were linked to vaccines. The opposite of what the quoted studies actually said.
Many news outlets sadly are a joke in fact checking and while there are many, some valid, excuses to be made, it creates a real problem that even renowned news outlets public wrong news, which in the end is just as harmful as intentional fake news.
@@denidale4701 Journalism is the worst career path. They think they have the glory of bringing the truth. Everything behind the free speech shield. Absolutely trash people.
@@denidale4701 I don't consider them journalists anymore. Most can't write an article that gets passed their own personal biases let alone is factually accurate.
@@denidale4701 the problem is social medias. I'm old enough to remember before internet. Media are all about scoop. Before internet they could take their time, investigate, confirm everything with many source. News was on tv from 5 to 7pm.
Now, news are 24/24. If they wait 5 sec, they will lose the scoop. Everyone will already be talking about it. They just don't have time to make sure it's true before it become old news. Add to that, anyone can buy a camera and record "news" in a small room. They cannot compete and they have so much more hours to fill.
The only way is sensational title, outrage to attract eyes, opinions more than news because they just don't have the time to do more. All because the rule of the normal world doesn't apply on internet. A plumber could run news about Ukraine on UA-cam and be followed if he sound credible enough.
My theory is that the press is doing a form of trolling. They piss of both the people who are quick to anger and slow to understand, and those who already know about the topic. Many others are just there for the show, to watch whatever interesting is supposedly happening.
"That really pisses me off"....I felt that. Love this channel.
I appreciate knowing the full back story to all of these situations. It does make a flyer feel more comfortable.
Well done to Virgin Atlantic for sticking to the rules and admitting a mistake. By no means is the F/O to be professionally diminished. He's certainly qualified but sadly he just suffered the consequences of these two years of madness to cut it short. I didn't believe any of the BS the MSM were saying about it and I'm glad I was right. Thank you for this vid Captain.
It seems pretty clear that the F/O made no errors there at all. It's pretty reasonable to expect that the scheduling system will ensure that a pilot will not get scheduled on a flight that does not meet all the conditions required for that pilot, such as being an aircraft on which he's qualified, making sure he's in the seat (left or right, which is a separate thing from captain vs. FO) for which he's qualified, flying with another pilot qualified for the other seat, and so on. Needing to fly with a line trainer is just another of the many requirements to be met.
And it wasn't really the two years of madness that's the root cause of this; that just helped expose an apparent problem in Virgin's scheduling system.
From a management POV, having the aircraft return immediately was the right decision. The economic cost incurred is nothing compared to the risk to your insurance costs or opening yourself up for lawsuits.
I’m one of the people who has overcome their fear of flying because of your videos. Thank you for everything you do!
There's also that recent story about the passenger with no flight experience landing a plane after the pilot was incapacitated. I listened to the radio logs with ATC and guy clearly knew something about aviation but was by no means qualified to fly. It was a far more impressive story than the Virgin administrative error.
Yes! That was impressive.
The photos for the article I saw on it made it seem like it was a commercial plane, when in fact it was a Cessna. Doesn't make it any less impressive, just another way media conflates and sensationalizes to get clicks. Was very happy they landed safely (much kudos to the passenger) and relieved it wasn't a big plane.
@@amypondhikes More impressive if you ask me. He actually had to fly it.
@@amypondhikes More impressive indeed. Much less autopilot functionality and single engine aircraft. On the pluside easier to land a smaller aircraft in a field etc
@@amypondhikes a cessna caravan is by no means a run of the mill 4 seater cessna
I always enjoy your sane evaluation of the headlines. Thank u!!
I am a nervous flyer, but I love going abroad 😂😂😂 I watch tons on your videos and disaster documentaries. May sound a stupid thing to do being nervous, but it actually helps xxx
I have arachnophobia (it's impossible to explain or justify). At some point, I decided to learn more about spider til the point I can identify each species. I still have arachnophobia, that deep sense of insecurity, fear and despair when suddenly faced with spider, but, armed with knowledge, I can calm down very quickly and even play with them, overcome the uncomfort of feeling their web. I don't even kill them because they are good natural predators for flies and mosquitos which are an infestation in my country (Madagascar). Fortunately, I don't live in Australia. No spider in Madagascar is potentially deadly, some bites, only a few have venom (it's just painful, not damaging) and they only attack when threatened (or when a female is nursing and you happen to be nearby)
So, yeah, I can relate, like, knowing more about what you fear is likely helping you overcome it in a way or another.
@@StephenKarl_Integral good for you! I shudder by just seeing the word “spider”
I’m a nervous flyer. Your work gives comfort to those like me. Much obliged!!
Thank you for doing this video. I saw those headlines and I'm so glad to hear the truth of what happened, not the media's sensationalistic coverage.
By far my favorite channel!! You have made me a less nervous flyer. I will always be anxious about flying but you and your content have made a huge positive impact. Keep up the great work!!
This would actually benefit Virgin Airlines cause nowadays UA-cam quickly picks up the heat about rumors, lies, and bad headlines. Once the truth is spread people would want to be a passenger on one of their aircraft. Also thanks for making this video.
Sounds legit, I would fly Virgin anytime now lol XD
Yeah right, thank god we have the ministry of truth at UA-cam now.
@@luiskp7173 Rather, there are channels (or more accurately precise individuals) that at some point took the decision to be informative in a way you can verify or openly challenge statements/affirmations, shed lights on various matters, teach anyone how to cope with contradicting voices, where and why you should think again before trusting... this, at their own expense usually.
Actually, there are quite a few of them, the vast portion of youtube being :
- music, memes and gaming (entertainment) of no important information or educational purpose
- another chunck people exposing their life and beliefs
- another much smaller chuck of useful information
- another chunck in constant monitoring of the next extraordinary claim (mostly false and toxic) to make money.
The said "ministry of truth" is mainly motivated by the last chunck, but at some point when people in the wrong will claim they are also "ministry of truth" systematically at the start of their videos, yet again, youtube will revert back to the video-specific version of facebook it was once before, making your perception noisy and parasitic again.
Best practice today is to listen to everyone and pick the few telling truth (after analysis) and boycot those lying to the world. Why ? Because people are just wasting their energy, money and time on irrelevant or wrong matters, then they blame the world while the problem is themselves.
The bad news is, youtube algorythm is doing its best to prevent the rise of smarter people. You can't find on youtube something that doesn't match what your history tells you watched, so, one who watches garbages cannot learn anything good on youtube, another who watches factual and verifiable information will have a better understanding of the world, this, increasing the fight between those who knows and those who are convinced to know while being wrong. The last possible potential cure on youtube (or any social media) is to post a seemingly controversial comment (the self proclaimed "ministry of truth") and for anyone to open his window to proceed on the verification process. That's why "truth claimers" are annoying, people just want to stay in their comfort zone despite this making their life miserable.
Nothing has changed over the centuries. We are not becomming more "civilized and intelligent" on a global scale.
@@StephenKarl_Integral "You can't find on youtube something that doesn't match what your history tells you watched, so, one who watches garbages cannot learn anything good on youtube..."
Um... Do you NOT have a "search" bar (labeled and everything) at the top-center of your screen???
Scroogle who re-arranged their stocks through a new shell company called "Alphabet" was ORIGINALLY just a search-engine... They DO still own UA-cam... AND my browser has a search-bar... Does a pretty damn solid job when I pop up there and search for content I haven't watched before... whether it's more instructional or psychological or based on critical thinking and fallacies (refreshers are a good idea)... OR I'm just searching up the dubious (or garbage) video being discussed by someone else under the "ministry of truth" banner to watch the whole thing myself, since so few ever actually put the entirety of content on their own vid's instead of cherry-picking critical segments they can bash easily... I've gotten used to smelling a "hatchet job" in the past...
AND if you really WANT to alter what YT has to offer, make a habit of leaving a like and even a silly comment for those things you've had to "run a search for" if you're interested in the subject... I go as far (to manipulate the algorythms) as to watch entirely and like and comment on at LEAST two (2) videos related to whatever subject I was originally checking out if I want more of "that sort of thing"... It really helps shift my feed... and it's not like it's all that difficult...
I DO get that with phones and tablets (not having true external keyboards) it can be a pain in the ass, but it's hardly impossible. ;o)
Just get me to my destination. I don’t want delays for liability mitigation.
This is a wonderful demonstration of just what can be accomplished using a UA-cam channel! It is very professional informative, real, practical, and entertaining. I can't use the word professional enough when talking about mentor pilot!
The production level shows how dedicated and passionate he is about being not only a pilot but being an entertainer, a teacher, and a great leader.
Bravo, Mentour Pilot.
I have a real problem with media in general. I am so pleased you have highlighted this so called mid Atlantic horror flight. I fly with Virgin Atlantic, and I know they go above and beyond.
We don't need bullsh1t, we need positive press to get people up in the air as soon as possible, returning the industry to flying fit.
I 10000000% agree with you.
The aviation industry holds a “special” place in the media’s heart.
More of the media need to find themselves fired and forced to find work elsewhere. Learn to Code wasn't a hashtag for no reason. The media have gone so far downhill that the public is starting to trust them less and less.
@@JoshuaPenaranda a special place of misinformation. they can't get the aircraft type right, they call every terrain in an airport 'Tarmac'
@@AA-tz2bm "EMERGENCY LANDING!"
You’re bang on.., my Wife would cry for weeks before we flew.., she didn’t a the fly without fear course here in 🇳🇿.., now she’s an aviation fan girl &&&& flys near full time in her roles travel…..
Film near everyone take off, views & landing…
Shame I’m very emotional just thinking of the difference for her…! & I…
Our very married happiness really suffered in those years before the course…
🙏 thank you to You and all our aviation professionals…., you are one of the few industries that got survive the fallout and still stand tall…
Kia Kaha (stand tall) Te Reo🙏🌹
Hell yeah! I'm a nervous flyer but flying from PDX to the UK next week with my 2 kids to visit family and what you said at the end just made me look forward to this trip!
You're a great added value to your industry.
And you're a great bringer of peace to us nervous flyers. Thank you so much.
Petter, excellent video and explanation of what really happened. Your disdain for the media is warranted. When I first saw this, I knew that it was not safety-related and that it's important to follow procedures in order to maintain the aviation industry's superb safety record.
The media is just awful. There was a fire in my hometown and the papers went straight to blaming the homeowners before even a police investigation had started. Turned out the homeowners were innocent but people still today talk about the fire like it was their fault. Horrible
Oddly enough it was watching your channel that got me to actually read multiple articles to puzzle out what happened. Those articles also used enough language that had I not watched your videos, I probably would not have puzzled it out.
Keep up the great work.
Well yeah, it's not like the crew aren't also at risk if there's carelessness. The airlines are still the safest way to go from point A to point B.
The trouble is that most passengers don't want just A to B; their journeys are X to A to B to Y and it is those landside elements that can significantly influence the choice of journey mode.
You do an amazing job. Your series of explanation of accidents and incidents is the best way to tell about safety.
When I first read about this incident, I immediately thought that the real "rostering error" was not with the FO, but with the Captain. The FO was just more easily replecable.
I am a nervous passenger. I have survived 3 air crashes, sudden arrivals and forced landings (in the armed forces). I saw this headline and could not believe it. Thank God for your channel! I did, however, read a fuller account in a less sensational daily paper and got the same message as you passed on. I will always be a nervous passenger but your Tube will keep me flying to see relatives etc. Thank you.
I have acrophobia, and I have never enjoyed flying because I just prefer long distance train travel. My wife asks why I watch your channel, and that’s just it: by listening to a detailed list of everything that had to go wrong to end up with a plane incident, I feel more comfortable. I doubt I’ll fly in the US domestically, because I’d hate a six hour flight to NY to LA, and enjoy a three day train trip. But maybe I’ll be able to make traveling across the Atlantic again a reality that doesn’t involve two weeks on a cruise ship never really designed for comfortable ocean crossing.
All due respect to the journalists and reporters who were just trying to do their jobs but this is why I only get aviation news from you and your website.
People should search; "how many flights are there per day?" Over 100,000 flights per day around the world. Go sit out by your local airport like DFW airport and watch the enormous non stop air traffic for 24 hours and there are no issues. Flying is so safe. More people die in the automotive traffic around the air port every day than people injured in planes every year.
I live by a quiet airport and it still has a good ten flights a day sometimes. Seen a few go arounds and seen flights in all manner of weather. Never a problem and I'm close enough to the airport to see everything
I am one of those nervous passengers, who always feel uncomfortable when I travel with a plane. But since I watch many of your videos here, slowly but sure i become more calm…. Thanks for your videos in this channel, i love to watch and learn many things from them…. Good job for you. God bless you…..
"and that really pisses me off" - you know Petter is upset when he uses this sort of language. You're a class act and love your videos!
I read three or four articles about this and literally the only one I read that actually explained what happened with context (much like you) was BBC News, all of the other commercial outlets totally failed to mention anywhere within the articles the context for why the pilot was in “training” but still qualified
And even then BBC used the same garbage headline as everyone else. Only those who read the article got the correct explanation (even if provided in quotes) and based on the twitter replies they were a tiny fraction...
Wow. Well said. I've been following your channel for ages, your last comment with an expletive was on point.
These sensational headlines are really a case of “short term gain, long term loss” in my opinion. They might get some extra attention immediately, but when people’s trust in them is eroded when they find out the truth. Every time I see these sensationalized headlines, my heart sinks a bit at the thought that I’ll have to wade through a load of hyperbole before I can find the actual truth.
I stopped trusting newsies long ago. The only people I trust less than newsies are politicians.
I remember a flight that I was fortunate to be on. It wasn't completely full . The pilot said that we would be leaving an hour and a half late, as cargo was being loaded on the plane. One gentleman that was late made the flight.
Having watched these videos I understood what was going on.
The deliberate distortion of truth for profit is a serious deficit in humanity's ability to evolve
The term for that is capitalism
@@monika.alt197 It's not. Capitalism isn't inherently the problem. Greed is.
@@GareWorks hunt for profit occurs as a result of greed
@@GareWorks greed is good?
@@TesterAnimal1 Sometimes greed drives ambition and drives the need for change. Sometimes greed can be good if used in the right way. Few things are inherently evil and few things completely innocent
Thanks for your time, patience and dedication to spread serious and responsible information.
As usual you lay it on the line as it really is. I like using your channel as a 'standard' by which to view the aviation world. I know you will keep it up. 👍
Thank you!
I literally download a playlist of your videos to watch in-flight. Very comfortable flying.
I'm curious, though. Should the pilot have known he shouldn't be flying that flight according to Virgin rules? Did he just assume he was flying with a line training captain, did he think he was not still in training, or did he not know Virgin's rules?
deserves an answer, great question
He would have got his briefing pack and assumed everything was in order.
More likely he just assumed the very experienced pilot he was flying with was a line check Captain.
That's a good point, and would be a great thing to add to their protocols going forward.
Wanted to say thank you for your videos. I am one of those nervous fliers who hadn't been o a plane for a decade. You and your videos have gotten me to fly one again. Thank you.
I rarely fly any more, but when I was younger, I flew a lot, both short and long haul, including across the Atlantic. I always enjoyed it, and never felt any qualms about flying. I had a friend who was a captain at Northeast Airlines, so I knew how exhaustive the training was, for a commercial pilot. You're a lot safer on a commercial flight, than you are crossing the street, or going down a set of stairs. The view is better, too.
You are precisely correct. The first officer, who was experienced and fully qualified on this aircraft, was returning to duty after a period of inactivity. Virgin Atlantic require them to complete eight flights with a training captain before returning to the normal roster. The first officer had only completed seven of these and had yet to complete the eighth, and final, such flight.
I really appreciate your refreshing perspective on this. Thanks!
When I saw the headline I thought the rule they had accidentally broken was to put two pilots in the same cockpit who were both new in type. The idea that they would put an untrained rookie in the cockpit of a transatlantic flight was too far fetched to even take seriously as click bait.
Thanks for the video, as a nervous flyer I take comfort in your videos content even the tragic event sometimes covered. It nice to see your personality and professionalism come through like all your colleagues in the aviation industry.
I really don't think that the video title sits well with you being really pissed off about the media sensationalizing this incident. If you title it "Virgin Airbus A330 Return Due to Untrained Pilot?", most people will correctly read it as soberly asking "Did they return due to an untrained pilot?" But the headline you have, "Virgin Airbus A330 Return due UNTRAINED PILOT?!" really does look like you're saying "Virgin put an untrained pilot on an A330? WTF?!? That's INSANE!" I certainly read it that way and I think it's very easy for people to misunderstand it that way.
I initially understood the video incorrectly from the title. I would have continued to think the pilot was unqualified if I didn’t watch the video.
As usual a fantastic video with accurate information and explained in a language every one understands.
Keep up the good work
Just curious, why is it called "line training"?
I assume it's related to line managers, the managers of the people who are directly producing a company's products or analogously in other fields of business.
Love this! I almost never subscribe for money but this video brought your channel home for me. I love flying, I was a private pilot before I had an injury that made me a passenger only but I have still followed the industry closely and live vicariously through channels like yours. Thank you for everything you do for me and the industry as a whole.
I really like this video, and completely agree with your point regarding sensationalism in the media. It did strike me however that in your choice of title you say "untrained" which does seem to go along with the same way media portrayed this. Anyway just a thought, love the channel.
Hmm… good point. Since I love all this content I don’t pay too much attention to the titles. But you’re right-maybe having the title saying “true story behind” would immediately reveal that we didn’t get the right information.
Excellently explained as always Petter! Watching your videos has always reaffirmed my faith in the commercial aviation industry. The press has a lot to answer for unfortunately. Keep up the great work!
It might be interesting to recount the cockpit conversation that lead to them, apparently not having noticed this discrepancy originally, and then discovering it later. Seems like they could have caught the mistake prior to takeoff.
Nevertheless, yes, I certainly agree that they made the right decision, and that the headlines were … ignorant.
What would be the conversation, when the FO does everything a FO is supposed to do in a timely manor (demonstrates familiarity with the craft, no fumbles)?
I discovered your UA-cam channel a couple of weeks ago. I've been watching your videos every day since! I'm not a pilot but have been interested in aviation for more than 50 years. I really appreciate your commentary and perspective. Thank you!
Reading the story in the news I did see the "suitably licenced and qualified" bit in the one I read which wasn't as bad as just the headline was. But even then, I was thinking a brand new pilot post qualification undergoing Virgin own extra training rather than a post-COVID returning pilot.
"and that really pisses me off"
Okay, that came was unexpectedly, but very true and understandable.
Great work as always!
I've heard that flight attendants only get paid while in the air. Would this crew have been paid more than they otherwise would have?
I didn’t know that! How terrible! Not only do they have to put up with increasingly more disrespectful passengers and also be willing to put their own lives at risk if there’s an accident, but to also not be compensated for time they spend doing flight-related tasks…. That is very unjust.
Thank you once again for being the voice of reality in our metal flying bird world. Your forthright comments on the ins and outs, the truth behind the events, is very much appreciated! Thank you again, Petter!
This is very good and helping. Keep up the good work!
Thank you! Glad you find it helpful
It's great to hear an honest appraisal of appalling media behaviour at 9:40, "... and that really pisses me off!"
An airline has nothing to gain by shortcutting it's own operating procedures, even though they maybe above the "minimum required" by the aviation industry.
Thankyou.
Petter, please keep on supporting (and defending) our dream-industry just the way you're doing it, because from my point of view, you are doing it tre-men-dous-ly fantastic!
I'm incredibly proud of you and the way you do your utmost best to present the reality of this industry like it really is or should be. Hope to be able to meet you in person one day.
I had no doubt that this story had been abused as a clickbait by the media, and that the safety of the flight and passengers was never in danger. I only wonder if the pilots might or not have been be aware that their match was unauthorized. I mean, the first officer knew he was undergoing his training, should he have checked with his captain that he was a trainer? Is there any obligation for the pilots to check their mutual experience/status? If they were totally unaware, I can only imagine how surprised they must have been when they were called back by the company.
Love your channel, thank you for this amazing work.
Nervous flier here! And I'm doing MUCH better exactly thanks to your videos about accidents (and the fearofflying subreddit lol)
Thank you man, keep up the good work!
Petter, this is unfortunately a standard from media across all sectors - I truly hope for Virgin Atlantic to claim damages from some of the( especially newspapers) news media that should have a responsible reporting obligation. Social media is lethal as there are simply too many unqualified individuals that can report about such events. You channel is truly a very good way to set facts straight!!!
Thank you for all you do to help us understand what is REALLY happening, without the spin.
The best channel on UA-cam period. Thank you for what you do. I wish I can be on your flight one day.
Excellent closure in the end !! It is amazing how many efforts are put in to make flight safe.
Love the passion in this, particularly towards the end. You're a good guy Petter. Stay passionate!
I'm so glad you addressed this situation head on, the world media are completely irresponsible in all aspects of reporting. I agree, watching your channel has made me extremely aware of the excellent processes and procedures that all pilots undertake. I think the airline industry is probably the safest and highly skilled group of individuals in any industry. I love flying and I have never questioned the integrity of the flight crew on any airline. Many other industries could learn so much from pilot training and all other aspects of the airline industry. Thank you so much for this much needed clarification!!
PS: I wonder if the media would look at the facts as you have presented them and retract their publications (LOL!!!!!)
Other industries not only could but _do_ learn from aviation. Reading NTSB accident reports and a lot of similar material has heavily influenced my work in system design and resilience in software development and deployment. Perhaps the most notable example is medicine; Atul Gawande has covered this extensively. His book _The Checklist Manifesto_ covers that and many other areas of business.
Petter, great job explaining what happened. You are correct when you call out the media. They have to sensationalize everything and have no regard for the damage that their actions can have on a company or individual.
Thanks for explaining this I thought their was more to this story than meets the eye.
sadly there are only a few news outlets on this planet i truly trust. But 2 of the most trusted had an untrained pilot article. Im so glad you cleared this up, thank you as always, i really apperciate the work that goes into your vids, so thank you also to the other people who help make these vids possible.
I have flown at least 4 times in my life and I always enjoyed it and after subscribing to your channel for a couple of years I have learned just how much training is involved in the cabin and flight crews. I am certain that the pilots in this plane were quite capable of flying it, however I commend Virgin Airlines for not only recalling the flight but making it known to the authorities and the public as well as taking the loss in revenue and helping the passengers getting to their destinations. If I were to fly overseas I would certainly fly on their airline because they do take the safety of everyone on board seriously. Thank you for sharing this.
Fantastic video bro!Your personality, attitude and delivery is second to none to both professional airline staff and laypersons. You should have 5 stripes!
I'm a carpenter (since Uber killed the cab business) but I enjoy training other people. I think the reason I like your videos is that you explain things enthusiastically and without making us feel dumb. That's how I like to treat people with less experience than myself.
Hi Petter
Thanks for this. I cant tell you how much i enjoy your analysis. I think you are spot on. FWIW I couldnt be more respectful of your intellect, analysis and approach. I think you are a beacon of truth for the industry. Im a consumer of your business but a regular flier (maybe once a week) and it matters to me a lot that it is healthy. As such, thank you very much for what you do. The industry needs you
Thank you Petter for clearing up any misconceptions that may have been portrayed by the media.
I have flown safely with Virgin Atlantic for years, and hope to continue. As a passenger, I trust them.
Thank you for helping us understand the situation. Too many times I’ve seen where shortcuts were taken. Here the only extreme measure was the airline adhering to its own protocols.
Hey Peter. Did you see the Light aircraft landed by a passenger in Long Beach this week? That would make a cool video when there’s more info on the incident. He did an almost textbook landing!
I appreciate you posting this and giving a thorough explanation. To your point about people approaching you and looking to you for guidance about flying and calming nerves, I think that's a testament to your methods. I have found that since watching your channel, I have a hard or impossible time watching most others. This is primarily because so many accident video posters try to build the sensational aspects and make the events seem even more horrific. Anyway, Thank you for your fantastic videos and posts.
It's one of the safest airlines on the planet. Fully trained crew with state of the art fleet. They as Mentour said done much more then required to safely fly to KJFK. Their crew is not only fully professional and trained but as well they are best in business. Follow them on Instagram, they are happy to speak to people and I would fly with them anytime i'd be able to fly. Great job Petter.. "media" these days ....well I miss times when there was no internet sometimes those cheap "news outlets" would die quickly!
Media has, in general, a wrong attitude to aviation. It's like that it's pure magic that an aircraft can fly. Not long time ago did a major Norwegian newspaper report a runway excursion in the US. Nobody was hurt. And the aircraft was not damaged. At the same day did about 100 Americans lose their life in road accidents. We never hear about that... Thank you, Petter, for your excellent work.
Taking this opportunity to thank you for your content 😊
I'm a nervous flyer too and I do exactly what you describe, watching your videos to calm myself by getting to know what is really happening, onboard and in the industry and learning how many safely measures are actually being taken. It helps a lot!
Yes I have greater confidence in the industry because of your fantastic content
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I'm so tired of headline writers trying to grab people's attention for the sole purpose of generating clicks! I appreciate you - and all others who strive to get the true story out. Keep at it - I fully support all your efforts! Thanks!