This talk is what I share again and again with people I know that are getting curious about meditation. I haven't found any better way of explaining how this practice can make us better citizens - better humans - in such simple yet wise words. Thank you so much for your wisdom, Shoken Michael Stone. Your energy and clarity are deeply missed, thus never forgotten. 🙏
@Officer Barbrady he had severe mental health issues and was in pain, he was not a junkie. He sought drugs for some relief from his pain but accidentally overdosed. RIP michael stone
Thank you, Michael Stone, for pointing in the direction of responsibly embracing our experience here on earth. Finding the sweet balance of nurturing the individual life we embody, with the broader view of our place as an individual in the whole, and then again, as a giver and receiver in all of the relationships weaved within our experience. Your talk, sharing your genuine vision for a better world filled with love, community consciousness and responsible action is a wonderful gift. Thank you so much for sharing. To others who listen, I challenge you also to walk away with something that propels you and supports you along your path, something said that resonates with you, something that applies to your part in making this a better world. If there are things you'd rather leave behind, just leave them. Let's focus on the good offered by one of our own. Lets put sun and water on the positive message:)
This was so beautiful. I completely agree with his philosophy. Running away from the reality isn't the right way. It's incomplete. Through meditation and realization within the real world, that is the real enlightment! Even for atheists and w/e they come up with next. :)
I'm in complete admiration of this. I recently stumbled upon something with a similar message, and it was absolutely mesmerizing. "The Joy of Less: A Minimalist Living Guide" by Matthew Cove
Yes, I've always been puzzled why a person would want to be separated from the material world when death will come soon enough = separated from the material world . So whilst here surely it is a must that we enjoy & have a relationship with the material world......IN A RESPECTFUL MANNER.
If the world is constantly,judgemental,cruel, lonely and harsh,full of trauma ,poverty ,anger ,racism division, materialism,ignorance ,shallow mindedness and superficiality,I can understand why,but I get your point, for people that are super emotional,calming the mind is a necessity,to give ones life,to isolation ,in a temple ,takes a lot of dedication I would imagine.
"What is the dust which obscures the mirror? It is attachment to the world,avarice, envy, love of luxury and comfort, haughtiness and self-desire; this is the dust which prevents reflection of the rays of the Sun of Reality in the mirror." ~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i Faith
We don't have to be dualists. George Fox taught that we all have a spiritual part in us - "that of God in every person" - I believe the world (environment - material world) is not only material but has within it a natural spiritual part. Like the early Transcendentalists, the surface (superficial) is not all there is - there is a spiritual part to the trees - Elias Hicks said there is a spirit in every blade of grass. And Whitman wrote his poetry epic "Blades of Grass". We are spiritual whether we like it or not, but we need to recognize this aspect of ourselves and of the world. Stone is so right saying that our world and the physical world is one of relationships -- and love is the finest kind of relationship.
There is a terrific story in Jack Kornfield's book about people who wanted to see the Great Buddha in Korea...There was a sign at the bottom of a hill that directed people toward it. When they got to the top there was just an empty space overlooking the great green landscape. And there was another sign that said, "if you are still looking for the Buddha then you missed the point." This is paraphrased but clearly the point is made. This may have made a good addition to Michael's speech. :-)
Thanks Michael - I've been looking forward to hearing this talk! Great talk - brilliant ideas. I attended yoga teacher training last year and discovered the belief that Yoga could heal the world. In my view, yoga practice kind of sneaks up on you and before you know it,your life and relationships look different - healthier -more honest. You were able to manifest those thought with words in this talk. Thank you!!!! Namaste!
All of the things mentioned here are NOT excluded by loving or serving God. These things are a part of the same plan. And it would be wrong to strive towards God and exclude our earthly obligations. The people we meet are certainly not to be disregarded or ignored in favor of God because it is the same thing. That is a part of the whole . But if we serve the world first we will probably not serve the Creator because the world will always be more demanding of our attention.. Therefore the STRIVING must be toward the Creator. The rest should follow.
Good talk, thank you. Delineation is our greatest human trap. The delineation via viewing ourselves relative to timeSpace and our reference pt relative to any given 'quest' we opt to partake slavishly confines us to a system of 'measurement' of status and achievement. You cannot achieve enlightenment. Enlightenment is our source state of presence so perfection can never be measured and can only be realized via the cessation of thought constructs and conceptual endeavors.
We are social animals. We need to teach our siblings what they need to survive in our society. They need to be properly warned about drugs and sex, about religious and political indoctrination, that ruins so many life. An important part of this education is "meditation", it provides us with self control, and makes a much better man out of us, like the mathematician named Ramanujan, who had lessons on meditation since childhood and went on to discover 4000 theorems !!!
Those who teach about Buddhism without being enlightened, is killing Buddhism... R.I.P. to this guy. But just because he took his own life doesn’t mean meditation can’t help with some depressions and addictions.. I believe this man fell through the cracks in the meditation community. I believe he should have been a little more closer to his Guru. If he wasn’t already.. maybe he needed a new Guru , maybe he wasn’t deepening his practice well enough. But who knows? We do need to continue to study mindfulness and make it fresh, and clarify what actually works for each individual. 🙏🏽 Amituofo ..
Balance is needed... Materialism is "… rampant and cancerous … undermining the fabric of human society alike in the East and in the West, eating into the vitals of the conflicting peoples and races inhabiting the American, the European and the Asiatic continents." - Shoghi Effendi, Baha'i Faith
Yes and no. I understand what you mean, material shouldn't be seen as the wrong path in that sense. You need all that layers, physical and emotional information, sensual information, factual and spiritual information, maybe even higher, if you understand this thinking in this dimensions of consciousness. I agree with you, enlightenment and so is about vertical transcendence, getting to higher layers. But this vertical transcendence really helps you with what you call horizontal transcendence. For me, what you describe is *connecting* the layers with each other. You want to have the spiritual world connected with the physical world, for example. But for this you have to know the spiritual one quite good. It's not enough to only live in the material and to hope your love to it will get deeper. You have to be enlightened to bring enlightenment down to earth. And enlightenment needs a kind of meditation, what however doesn't have to mean to sit down and just to observe your breathe. I never meditated after rules, I meditated when and how I needed it. You can listen to music like ecstatic Scriabin, you can go walk in the nature, you can read a philosophical book, you can think about the world and everything, maybe you can even have sex or take drugs (I never tried it), all that can help you to enlightenment. Just live conscious and in peace.
Thanks Michael Stone! I liked the talk. I was surprised, in his intro., to hear that most people think of spirituality as something outside of the body. I always thought of is as synonymous with our thoughts - in or brain. I agree that the use of the word spiritualism could be discarded, but I don't think it should be replaced with materialism. Materialism already has a linguistic function, and more importantly it missed much of what is important about having a deep appreciation for stuff, including lakes and forests. Many of the reason these natural things are important transcends their actual material being - they have function. He touched on it with the acknowledgement of relationships, but he doesn't seem to be able to define it. As someone who has been thinking about biodiveristy and our relationship with it as long as Stone has been thinking about spiritualism, I can define several important relationships in nature that we need to meditate on: Trophic relationships, biogeochemical cycles, functional groups (eg. pollinators), functional diversity, ecosystem services, keystone species, natural complexity and redundancy. These are the things that made us and that give life its deepest meaning. If we love them our consumerism diminishes. I am quite convinced that building a relationship with them is key to human well-being, including spirituality - but we need to put them first. It's quite remarkable that Stone has discovered this domain given his background - it gives me hope that others searching for spirituality will eventually appreciate the importance of things, natural and man-made. I'd love to chat with him sometime. Chris Cameron, Univ. de Montreal
Maybe I don't understand his ideas well. But when he talks about materialism he refers loving the things around you, whereas materialism as I understand means ATTACHMENT to things.
he is saying we are not attached on a deep level. if you really care for anything or any object you will not discard it as we do today. try to understand what that object means to it's environment, try to see it's impact, the work that went into it. not only objects, but everything around living, none living. communicate with them, this will form a bond which you cannot discard so easily. communication becomes love, which will lead to peace.
He's wrong about materialism is not about loving things is worse, it's the fact of worshipping objects like you said being attached to them emotionally! It becomes an obsession!
when a person is seeing Buddha as an icons in different cultures or countries, his understanding is not complete or fully not awakened. A true follower of buddha never cares of the representation of Buddha but the teachings.
Thank you for mentioning the concept of "God" being an abstract vertical transcendence that can leave one alienated from others in the here and now rather than grounding one in basic compassion and wisdom. I always thought the idea of "God" to be covertly counter-productive to true understanding of reality despite traditional popular belief. "God" is an unnecessary man-made construct that only gets in the way of "just being". (enlightenment) Peace! :)
I agree with a lot of people who've already commented on this video. Started out pretty good but got off track and I think it got pretty pretentious....actually the whole lecture is pretentious. I understand what he's trying to get at but still, just a bit off track towards the middle & end.
There is no historical evidence to suggest that Alexander the Great asked his sculptors to create representations of the Buddha or any other Buddhist figures. While Alexander did lead a military campaign into the Indian subcontinent in the 4th century BCE, there is no record of him encountering Buddhist culture or commissioning any Buddhist art. In fact, it is unlikely that Alexander or his contemporaries would have been familiar with Buddhist culture at all, as Buddhism was a relatively new and localized religion at the time. The earliest Buddhist art and iconography developed in India several centuries after Alexander's death, and was largely influenced by indigenous Indian artistic traditions rather than any external sources. The idea that Greek sculptors were involved in creating Buddhist art is a popular but unfounded myth that emerged in the 19th century. While there are some similarities between Greek and Buddhist art, such as the use of realistic and lifelike depictions of the human form, these similarities are likely the result of parallel developments in artistic techniques and conventions, rather than direct influence or contact between the two cultures.
Heh, the guy had a mental ailment. He didn't mean to kill himself. He sought something for the pain.Give him some slack, you who can't even speak with a name and gender! Wimp.
I dont understant very well english but he speak more less like Marx, for him the most important not its the ideas world the most important its materialism world, are our tools that modify our production system, our economies, our society and after our mentallity. But stone says that is important have good relation with tecnology for avoid materialism but how? Apple, Samsumgs are symbols to be cool
This guy doesn't get materialism AT ALL..the sidewalk isn't something you buy, or crave, his "deep" materialism is just saying love the environment.."but....if.....I.....talk.....slow.....people .....will......believe......I'm.....talking.....about ..... something........ radical Bore off
This talk is what I share again and again with people I know that are getting curious about meditation. I haven't found any better way of explaining how this practice can make us better citizens - better humans - in such simple yet wise words. Thank you so much for your wisdom, Shoken Michael Stone. Your energy and clarity are deeply missed, thus never forgotten. 🙏
Re- listening to this today, 10 years on, and it seems as relevant as ever.
Horizontal transcendence is here, now and necessary. Beautifully presented. Thank you, Michael!
I can’t believe it’s only been 3 years since he passed. Feels like yesterday. We miss you, Michael. Rest In Peace, brother
@Officer Barbrady overdose
@Officer Barbrady he had severe mental health issues and was in pain, he was not a junkie. He sought drugs for some relief from his pain but accidentally overdosed. RIP michael stone
Brilliant. Wonderful wisdom. Lots of love to his family. My sincere condolences. B
Thank you, Michael Stone, for pointing in the direction of responsibly embracing our experience here on earth. Finding the sweet balance of nurturing the individual life we embody, with the broader view of our place as an individual in the whole, and then again, as a giver and receiver in all of the relationships weaved within our experience. Your talk, sharing your genuine vision for a better world filled with love, community consciousness and responsible action is a wonderful gift. Thank you so much for sharing. To others who listen, I challenge you also to walk away with something that propels you and supports you along your path, something said that resonates with you, something that applies to your part in making this a better world. If there are things you'd rather leave behind, just leave them. Let's focus on the good offered by one of our own. Lets put sun and water on the positive message:)
Rest in Peace, Michael
This was so beautiful. I completely agree with his philosophy. Running away from the reality isn't the right way. It's incomplete. Through meditation and realization within the real world, that is the real enlightment! Even for atheists and w/e they come up with next. :)
One of the best speakers I have heard on topic. Cannot understand why some people dont get it.
I'm in complete admiration of this. I recently stumbled upon something with a similar message, and it was absolutely mesmerizing. "The Joy of Less: A Minimalist Living Guide" by Matthew Cove
Relationship is it and Michael states it brilliantly.
Thanks again Michael!
This is smart and beautiful. We can stop trying to escape. Lets make the best of what we have today.
Rest in Peace, Michael
isn't it ironic?? being so spiritual and dying from drugs, i'm so confused..
NICE ONE. actually this has been the goal of the conceptual design world for a decade now, but never heard it nailed down so well and simple.
Yes, I've always been puzzled why a person would want to be separated from the material world when death will come soon enough = separated from the material world . So whilst here surely it is a must that we enjoy & have a relationship with the material world......IN A RESPECTFUL MANNER.
If the world is constantly,judgemental,cruel, lonely and harsh,full of trauma ,poverty ,anger ,racism division, materialism,ignorance ,shallow mindedness and superficiality,I can understand why,but I get your point, for people that are super emotional,calming the mind is a necessity,to give ones life,to isolation ,in a temple ,takes a lot of dedication I would imagine.
"What is the dust which obscures the mirror? It is attachment to the world,avarice, envy, love of luxury and comfort, haughtiness and self-desire; this is the dust which prevents reflection of the rays of the Sun of Reality in the mirror." ~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i Faith
What a great talk! Thank you Michael!
i go to public marker in downtown seattle.
i do not know what i learn but i always feel very refreshed. go Seattle !
We don't have to be dualists. George Fox taught that we all have a spiritual part in us - "that of God in every person" - I believe the world (environment - material world) is not only material but has within it a natural spiritual part. Like the early Transcendentalists, the surface (superficial) is not all there is - there is a spiritual part to the trees - Elias Hicks said there is a spirit in every blade of grass. And Whitman wrote his poetry epic "Blades of Grass". We are spiritual whether we like it or not, but we need to recognize this aspect of ourselves and of the world. Stone is so right saying that our world and the physical world is one of relationships -- and love is the finest kind of relationship.
deeper materialism and horizontal transcendence are great strands to go about! :)
love your process whatever it may be .. its also your progress
There is a terrific story in Jack Kornfield's book about people who wanted to see the Great Buddha in Korea...There was a sign at the bottom of a hill that directed people toward it. When they got to the top there was just an empty space overlooking the great green landscape. And there was another sign that said, "if you are still looking for the Buddha then you missed the point." This is paraphrased but clearly the point is made. This may have made a good addition to Michael's speech. :-)
congrats michael. great talk.
BeYOUtiful wisdom... BeYOUtiful truth... BeYOUtiful soul!♥️
Thanks Michael - I've been looking forward to hearing this talk! Great talk - brilliant ideas. I attended yoga teacher training last year and discovered the belief that Yoga could heal the world. In my view, yoga practice kind of sneaks up on you and before you know it,your life and relationships look different - healthier -more honest. You were able to manifest those thought with words in this talk. Thank you!!!! Namaste!
All of the things mentioned here are NOT excluded by loving or serving God. These things are a part of the same plan. And it would be wrong to strive towards God and exclude our earthly obligations. The people we meet are certainly not to be disregarded or ignored in favor of God because it is the same thing. That is a part of the whole . But if we serve the world first we will probably not serve the Creator because the world will always be more demanding of our attention.. Therefore the STRIVING must be toward the Creator. The rest should follow.
it's called "love one another" and put God first. this is both vertical and horizontal. When you put them together it forms a cross... we need both...
Good talk, thank you. Delineation is our greatest human trap. The delineation via viewing ourselves relative to timeSpace and our reference pt relative to any given 'quest' we opt to partake slavishly confines us to a system of 'measurement' of status and achievement. You cannot achieve enlightenment. Enlightenment is our source state of presence so perfection can never be measured and can only be realized via the cessation of thought constructs and conceptual endeavors.
We are social animals. We need to teach our siblings what they need to survive in our society. They need to be properly warned about drugs and sex, about religious and political indoctrination, that ruins so many life.
An important part of this education is "meditation", it provides us with self control, and makes a much better man out of us, like the mathematician named Ramanujan, who had lessons on meditation since childhood and went on to discover 4000 theorems !!!
Those who teach about Buddhism without being enlightened, is killing Buddhism... R.I.P. to this guy. But just because he took his own life doesn’t mean meditation can’t help with some depressions and addictions.. I believe this man fell through the cracks in the meditation community. I believe he should have been a little more closer to his Guru. If he wasn’t already.. maybe he needed a new Guru , maybe he wasn’t deepening his practice well enough. But who knows? We do need to continue to study mindfulness and make it fresh, and clarify what actually works for each individual. 🙏🏽 Amituofo ..
This speaks to me.
Balance is needed... Materialism is "… rampant and cancerous … undermining the fabric of human society alike in the East and in the West, eating into the vitals of the conflicting peoples and races inhabiting the American, the European and the Asiatic continents." - Shoghi Effendi, Baha'i Faith
"The less I seek my source for some definitive... Closer I am to fine"!
-indigo girls
We are made of each other
the word "deep" is useful, that's why you need to describe more.
Yes and no. I understand what you mean, material shouldn't be seen as the wrong path in that sense. You need all that layers, physical and emotional information, sensual information, factual and spiritual information, maybe even higher, if you understand this thinking in this dimensions of consciousness.
I agree with you, enlightenment and so is about vertical transcendence, getting to higher layers. But this vertical transcendence really helps you with what you call horizontal transcendence. For me, what you describe is *connecting* the layers with each other. You want to have the spiritual world connected with the physical world, for example. But for this you have to know the spiritual one quite good. It's not enough to only live in the material and to hope your love to it will get deeper. You have to be enlightened to bring enlightenment down to earth.
And enlightenment needs a kind of meditation, what however doesn't have to mean to sit down and just to observe your breathe. I never meditated after rules, I meditated when and how I needed it. You can listen to music like ecstatic Scriabin, you can go walk in the nature, you can read a philosophical book, you can think about the world and everything, maybe you can even have sex or take drugs (I never tried it), all that can help you to enlightenment. Just live conscious and in peace.
Thanks Michael Stone! I liked the talk. I was surprised, in his intro., to hear that most people think of spirituality as something outside of the body. I always thought of is as synonymous with our thoughts - in or brain.
I agree that the use of the word spiritualism could be discarded, but I don't think it should be replaced with materialism. Materialism already has a linguistic function, and more importantly it missed much of what is important about having a deep appreciation for stuff, including lakes and forests. Many of the reason these natural things are important transcends their actual material being - they have function. He touched on it with the acknowledgement of relationships, but he doesn't seem to be able to define it. As someone who has been thinking about biodiveristy and our relationship with it as long as Stone has been thinking about spiritualism, I can define several important relationships in nature that we need to meditate on: Trophic relationships, biogeochemical cycles, functional groups (eg. pollinators), functional diversity, ecosystem services, keystone species, natural complexity and redundancy. These are the things that made us and that give life its deepest meaning. If we love them our consumerism diminishes. I am quite convinced that building a relationship with them is key to human well-being, including spirituality - but we need to put them first.
It's quite remarkable that Stone has discovered this domain given his background - it gives me hope that others searching for spirituality will eventually appreciate the importance of things, natural and man-made. I'd love to chat with him sometime.
Chris Cameron, Univ. de Montreal
You can also listen to Village Zendo podast, i.e. zen teacher Michael references at the end. ˆ_ˆv
Brilliant.
It is #NewMaterialism Deleuze and Guatari, Manuel DeLanda, feminism. Trying to get a philosophical grasp of it. It seems to have quite high potential.
Maybe I don't understand his ideas well. But when he talks about materialism he refers loving the things around you, whereas materialism as I understand means ATTACHMENT to things.
he is saying we are not attached on a deep level. if you really care for anything or any object you will not discard it as we do today. try to understand what that object means to it's environment, try to see it's impact, the work that went into it. not only objects, but everything around living, none living. communicate with them, this will form a bond which you cannot discard so easily. communication becomes love, which will lead to peace.
He's wrong about materialism is not about loving things is worse, it's the fact of worshipping objects like you said being attached to them emotionally! It becomes an obsession!
when a person is seeing Buddha as an icons in different cultures or countries, his understanding is not complete or fully not awakened. A true follower of buddha never cares of the representation of Buddha but the teachings.
wibas2008 the same with Jesus Christs
Exactly he didn't wanted to be worshipped, but to awake people to the truth!
Thank you for mentioning the concept of "God" being an abstract vertical transcendence that can leave one alienated from others in the here and now rather than grounding one in basic compassion and wisdom. I always thought the idea of "God" to be covertly counter-productive to true understanding of reality despite traditional popular belief. "God" is an unnecessary man-made construct that only gets in the way of "just being". (enlightenment) Peace! :)
And people still think he's a white bearded man that lives on the clouds!
if you are closer to god you are farther from humans
I agree with a lot of people who've already commented on this video. Started out pretty good but got off track and I think it got pretty pretentious....actually the whole lecture is pretentious. I understand what he's trying to get at but still, just a bit off track towards the middle & end.
There is no historical evidence to suggest that Alexander the Great asked his sculptors to create representations of the Buddha or any other Buddhist figures. While Alexander did lead a military campaign into the Indian subcontinent in the 4th century BCE, there is no record of him encountering Buddhist culture or commissioning any Buddhist art.
In fact, it is unlikely that Alexander or his contemporaries would have been familiar with Buddhist culture at all, as Buddhism was a relatively new and localized religion at the time. The earliest Buddhist art and iconography developed in India several centuries after Alexander's death, and was largely influenced by indigenous Indian artistic traditions rather than any external sources.
The idea that Greek sculptors were involved in creating Buddhist art is a popular but unfounded myth that emerged in the 19th century. While there are some similarities between Greek and Buddhist art, such as the use of realistic and lifelike depictions of the human form, these similarities are likely the result of parallel developments in artistic techniques and conventions, rather than direct influence or contact between the two cultures.
not pure, changing, impermanent. we need to find a way to integrate this. vertical transcendence is an old model that is about going up and out
What has schizophrenia got to do with spirituality???
RIP
Moon Maiden Michael passed away?
Dario Alexander yes unfortunately :(
Osho have a better answer for this puzzle.
Have you read Personalist literature? It may speak to you.
materialism is why you suffer ... i have pass three computer in less of four months and beleive me i will be really sick if i have any attachements
All my fish need are a helping of fries, hush puppies and slaw. Oh, and a big, tall glass of sweet tea. GET IN MY BELLY!!!
He said a few things that were great but most of this was just mumbo jumbo Deepak Shopra woo-woo.
lol
Not meant to cause more pain to his family and followers but the fact is he can't even practice what he preached. RIP
Heh, the guy had a mental ailment. He didn't mean to kill himself. He sought something for the pain.Give him some slack, you who can't even speak with a name and gender! Wimp.
most preachers have mental ailments
I dont understant very well english but he speak more less like Marx, for him the most important not its the ideas world the most important its materialism world, are our tools that modify our production system, our economies, our society and after our mentallity. But stone says that is important have good relation with tecnology for avoid materialism but how? Apple, Samsumgs are symbols to be cool
Huh????
Started off well. A derailment towards body and conclusion of the argument. No supportive facts or references to opinion. Mediocre.
hypocrisy. he makes meditation and mindfulness so complex that even he lost his way. RIP.
maybe the next Buddah will be female....
Hahahaha... what arrogance.
Wade1865 yeah because humans as regards religion, have NEVER been that.....smh...
maybe Buddha isn't a human ;)
Jazzy Babe love the sarcasm
@@DarkAngelEU Only a human can achieve buddhahood.
What he said about the Abrahamic Religions was completely wrong.
Sadly these things didn't help him...
But he helped me and many others.
he shaved his head cause he was going bald
Boring!!!
This guy doesn't get materialism AT ALL..the sidewalk isn't something you buy, or crave, his "deep" materialism is just saying love the environment.."but....if.....I.....talk.....slow.....people .....will......believe......I'm.....talking.....about ..... something........ radical
Bore off
We are made of each other