Choosing a kayak - Recreation Vs Touring
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- You probably already have a Recreational Kayak, but can you use it to go camping? Sure, with some things to be aware of.
You can get my gear list and float plan (AND STICKERS!) here ko-fi.com/adve...
If you like this content you can support me by buying me a coffee, right here. ko-fi.com/adve...
The Gear I use:
Kayak - Delta Seventeen - tinyurl.com/bd...
Paddle - Werner Camano -
Paddle - Werner Kalliste - bit.ly/3L7GPCD
PFD - Astral Greenjacket - bit.ly/3mF0RKI
Drysuit - Kokatat Gore-tex Meridian - bit.ly/3JkUoMH
Personal Locator Beacon - ACR Resqlink - bit.ly/3L7wHtG
If you need help getting started paddling or backpacking, check out my books on Amazon and Apple Books. tinyurl.com/r7...
The Simple Guide to Kayak Camping - tinyurl.com/bd...
The Simple Guide to Kayaking - tinyurl.com/yz...
GO! - the trip planning book -tinyurl.com/mr...
The Simple Guide to Backpacking - tinyurl.com/mw...
The Simple Guide to SUP - tinyurl.com/26...
The Adventure Journal - tinyurl.com/s8...
All my books for iPAd - tinyurl.com/ay...
My Most Popular Videos:
Choosing a kayak - Length Matters - • Choosing a kayak - len...
Choosing a kayak - Understanding rocker - • Choosing a Kayak Und...
3 season VS 4 season tents - • 3 season vs 4 season t...
First Aid Kits - • NOLS Wilderness First ...
Paddling in High Winds - • Kayak Instructor Life:...
KOA Campgrounds - • Now I understand KOA c...
Kayaking Skills Videos
Packing your kayak - • Packing for Kayak Camp...
Edging your kayak - • Edging your Kayak - Fo...
Turning a long Kayak - • Turning A Long Kayak*
Mastering the Forward Stroke - • Mastering the Kayak Fo...
Teaching the Forward Stroke - • Kayak Instructor Life ...
Tips for the outdoors:
Ten tips for Sea kayakers - • 10 Tips for Sea Kayakers
Ten more! - • 10 MORE kayaking tips!
The Ten Essentials - • The Ten Essentials For...
Follow me!
on Instagram / adventure.otaku
The Adventure Otaku Theme was composed and performed by IainB - and you can get it on Bandcamp - iainb.bandcamp...
#outdoors #outdoorfun #outdoorgear #kayaking #safety #kayaksafety #outdoorsafety #kayak #paddler #paddleinstructor #seakayak #kayak #kayaker #kayaking #outdoors #outdoorlife #outdoorfun #outdoorgear #adventure #outdooreducation
I did love my rec kayak. For a person who was afraid of flipping it was a great confidence builder, because that thing is a BARGE. I probably could stand up in it. But it let me get out on the water and learn to paddle. And not a huge investment if I ended up not really using it.
After three years I was ready for an upgrade, and got my Delta. Had to re-learn entry and exit methods, but so much lighter and faster on the water. Less work to get it moving. Seemed tippier at first, but I got past that. Now I’m working on edging and more paddle skills. Still haven’t done an overnight with it, but that’s in the plans. Did do my first lazy river trip in it last fall.
I guess my opinion is, kayaks are good. Use what you have. Enjoy the experience. Work on your skills. Have fun.
I would add, all kayaks are good, but some are better than others at particular things. You may be able to make something work for a while… but eventually find a goal and pick a boat.
Much of it depends on where you want to go kayak camping and how far. An F15 can fly really fast, but it can't land on a grass pasture and expect to take off again.
If someone just wants to paddle a half mile out to an island on an inland lake, the rec boat could work fine.
The times that I have led trips with rec boats, I treat them like any boat without bulkheads. Both the bow and stern flotation is a requirement, and as you mentioned, the gear is secured. If they gripe about it, I just explain how little interest I have in recovering a partially submerged boat with 80 gallons of water in it when I know I wouldn't have to if they'd used flotation.
Another pro for the rec boat is that they don't need to practice a wet exit, as they'll more than likely fall out (provided gear is secured and no entanglement).
That being said not all trips are for all kayaks. I wouldn't let someone on a coastal trip of any distance with a rec boat. It's not fair to the rest to have to wait, and the hazards are too high. However, I probably wouldn't let someone on a whitewater trip with shoals if they showed up with a 17' composite boat.
The important part is getting people out there to discover these things with their own eyes.
I pretty much agree, with the exception being I can go anywhere a rec boat can go - including the grass pasture! - just not a river. And I agree the important part is getting people out there, but in a safe manner and there are definitely times that a rec boat ISNT a safe choice. But most rec paddlers may not know that. And that was really my goal.
@@AdventureOtaku Sadly, the biggest lesson they'll learn is seeing two inches of plastic above the surface while their gear floats away.
One of my boats is a 32 year old Klepper folding tandem. The cockpit opening is around 7' long with a spray skirt. Through a conventional lens, it looks more like a rec boat or even a canoe, yet they've managed some of the most extreme expeditions recorded. It's more of an Airbus than an F15, but two people can comfortably average over 4 mph for the day with 300 lbs of gear. Same packing rules as a rec boat apply.
Let’s hope they are careful enough that doesn’t happen! I know the keepers very well! They had a store on union square in Manhattan in the 90’s… amazing boat
I would argue that's there is little point in needing to bring the pump and paddle float in that prodigy. If most folks capsized it, they would not be able to reenter the boat with the paddle float and pump the water out, faster than it would be coming back in. Not having a bow bulkhead/ flotation, is another safety concern of most rec boats. Even a t-rescue is super difficult with that much water in the boat. Really that rec paddler shouldn't be paddling out any further than they are will to swim it back to shore, even with added inflatable bow flotation it would be difficult for most to self rescue rec kayaks.
All valid points, and it should tell you how often I am in rec boats. My default is paddle float/bilge pump… safety 3rd… But you are absolutely right.
Hi! Thanks for reaching out and sharing your knowledge about boats!
Looking at a more advanced boat. Currently have an Eddyline Rio. It’s fine but limited.
Problem has been there are so many “advanced” boats, it’s growing increasingly hard to try one on.
Am a “smaller” female. Been cashing my ssn checks for ages( over 70)
About 118 lbs. About 5’6”. Investigated Delta. “They” said the REI has some: but when i called they had no clue( houston, tx)… not a good sign
so i do not know. Interested in performance,
Durability, safety; fit. Boat weight also important. Im stumped. Willing to try one, patient for “better “ but i HAVE to see it; test drive one.
I know there HAS to be zillions however retailers seem to have limited inventory and seem impatient.
Suggestions?
Hey Naomi, email me BrettATadventureotaku.com I may have some leads for you in the Houston area.
If all I’m doing is paddling out a short distance on flat water, setting up camp, paddling around the next day sans gear, and then packing up the next day & paddling back (weekend camping), then I’d be ok with whatever boat I’ve got.
If I’m doing more of a multi-day tour where I pack up every morning & head on, then I’d want a touring kayak with bulkheads. If only because I don’t want to be spending the whole time kicking gear out of my way.
That’s great. My whole thing when I bought my first delta was “I can only have one boat. It needs to hold 30 days of food and gear AND be fun to paddle empty.
Could a 12ft recreational kayak be compared to a 14ft touring kayak ?
Sea kayak/touring kayak is really the same thing. Comparing them to a rec boat the rec boat would be wider (and obviously shorter) and probably lack any dry storage.
For long distance coastal and big open water kayaking, your points are valid. However, folks who own recreational kayaks like the one you were in, aren’t likely to even want to go on week long + excursions. Those types of kayaks work great on the smaller, rocky, moving water rivers (up to easy Class 2) inland, and would run circles around a long touring kayak on those rivers, even loaded out for a weekend of camping. And just for reference, I own 7 kayaks and have camped out of 10.5’ rec boats up to and including a 17’ sea kayak. If I only had one kayak, that would not stop me from camping out of it, it would just limit the type of water (and weather) I would be comfortable paddling in.
Absolutely. I did say the long boat wasn’t good for rivers.
I’m also 5’6” (135 lbs.) and looking at getting my first Kayak, probably an Eddyline Sitka ST or LT. I’m wondering, given our similar size, which you think would be a better fit. It’s tough to find somewhere to actually demo it. Also, what size paddle do you use? Thanks!
You are my height, but you weigh less, so keep that in mind. Also keep in mind, you can always pad a cockpit to make it fit you better. The final thing to keep in mind, I haven't paddled either of these boats. With all that said, If I were you, I would do the ST, unless your goal is multi day paddling with a lot of gear. In which case, the longer length, and greater weight capacity will come in handy - Shame on Eddyline for not listing a volume/storage capacity for these boats..... But I am guessing that the ST will fit you better. I paddle with a 220cm paddle.
@@AdventureOtaku Thank you so much for your quick reply. Looking forward to watching more of your videos!
A big safety consideration also is the ratio of hatch/bulkhead space to cockpit space. Many lovely to paddle rec boats have little or no hatch space (sealed of from the rest of the boat) which isn't a problem in good times, but if god forbid you did flip or otherwise swamp your kayak, the cockpit fills up with water and without the sealed compartments there isn't much keeping your boat afloat. And even if it doesn't fully sink its hard (impossible?) to pump out the water if the cockpit is under the waterline. That said you could probably get float bags to put inside to mitigate this, and there are probably other things as well. Rec boats are great, but when using them in places where you wouldn't be happy (or at least safe) swimming, you should make sure they will remain see worthy in bad weather/situations
Yeah, In retrospect I should have talked about flotation, and bulkheads. An oversight on my part. Maybe Ill do an addendum….
@@AdventureOtaku For a kayak with a fore and/or aft sealed bulkhead(s), I keep wondering if stuffing them with gear takes away much from the kayak's buoyancy if capsized.
I live in the Chicago area. I have fishing kayaks that i can pedal and power. But i also love to paddle. Can you lend me any advice on what you would consider a great used paddling kayak to purchase that wont break the bank to start. There are a lot for sale in my area, Im 50 yr old 6ft and 190lb. Im in good shape but i have a bad lower back. I want to spend time on Lake Michigan and be able to possibly paddle up rivers to explore. Thank you for any advice
I actually did a video about buying used kayaks and what to look for. I think it’s called something like the kayak big three for less…. It was published this year. Email me BrettATadventureotaku.com and we can talk about options.
@@AdventureOtaku Thank you for replying so quickly! You have gained a new subscriber.
Can i get away with a 16 foot long and 22,8 inch wide touring kayak as a beginner? I'm 6 foot long and the cockpit length of the kayak is 33 inches. I have some experience in a Point 65 Mercury kayak. Will i have issues with primary stabilization in boat this size? thanks
I don't see why not. Assuming you fit in the cockpit, and I don't see any reason why you shouldn't. I have seen people over 6' in 16 foot kayaks. The narrowness compared to the mercury might seem daunting at first, but it won't for long. I have said many times, your new boat should scare you a little bit, that tippy-ness will translate into an easier transition for edge turns, eventually. I would do it.
@@AdventureOtaku This helped a lot thanks
Your welcome. Thanks for watching l!
Well I did Slalom Kayaking for my high school sport back in the 70s. The teacher organised materials & mould hire and we built our own kayaks in 2-3 days per boat for $40 each.
I built a more competitive Lettmann Olymp kayak a few years later. In those days, Slalom boats were restricted to 4m LOL 60cm beam. I still have both these kayaks & paddle them from time to time. They can hold everything needed for several days touring. However, these are not ideal touring kayaks in terms of handling nor speed for effort. So later in life, I purchased a 17 ft fibreglass sea kayak for about $400 2nd hand. It's half the weight of any plastic kayak & I can easily lift it on and off my car by myself. It has bulkheads where camping can be stored. This is a much better option for me to paddle open waters. I have never understood why anyone would pay thousands for a boat that they cannot easily load unload or portage by themselves. Just buy a decent boat 2nd hand for 10% of the cost of a new one that you wouldn't enjoy because it's too heavy to manage.
Yeah, you can absolutely do well on the used market. But you have to be able to act quickly.
Very good advice here -- i agree completely. I'm a kayak instructor at 4 different locations (in or near Vancouver, BC). At locations where they have a mix of recreational and touring kayaks, i like to point out their differences, including the safety issues with rec boats, and give the students a choice as to which to try.
One point i'd like to add is that there is really a continuum between recreational and touring kayaks. Somewhere in the middle ground are what are often called *light touring* kayaks. In fact i'm about to buy a new fleet of boats for one employer. I've decided on 12 or 13 foot light touring boats. They have the safety features of touring boats -- proper bow storage compartments, proper perimeter lines, and cockpits that take spray skirts. They also are reasonably short and wide like a beginner's rec boat.
GIve me an example of light touring. I am guessing it is similar to the tsunami 140/145 I mentioned.
@@AdventureOtaku Here are some:
Boreal Design Compass 140
Boreal Design Halo 130
Boreal Design Baltic 120
Riot Edge 13
Riot Enduro 12
Riot Enduro 13
Dagger Stratos 12.5
Delta Delta 12.10
Delta Delta 12AR
Eddyline Sandpiper
Eddyline Skylark
Norse Kayaks Heimdall
Perception Carolina 14.0
Wilderness Systems Tsunami 125
Yeah, as I thought. Thanks for the list.
Right but what about apples to apples. By that I mean a 12-14’ dual bulkhead/hatched rec boat that mirrors touring kayaks? Especially with ultrlight transitional versatile gear used from backpacking and bikepacking. Other than food volume large capacity may not be needed. The reality is no one boat can do it all. Lol.
I do agree that no one boat can do it all… I would say a 14’ dual bulkheaded boat is a light touring boat, and yes you could pack like an ultra lighter and use it for multi day. But when I am talking about a rec boat I am talking about less than 14’, and wider than a touring boat - which will affect performance. You simply cant cover miles in a short wide boat, they don’t offer the storage needed for for more than an overnight…etc… the list goes on.
I am in complete agreement with you on the entry/exit method, when I can't use it I feel very vulnerable. I like a kayak with a medium sized cockpit entrance, just a bit easier on the back.
Right on
The one thing I love about your videos is I go back to them over and over and find something new. I would love to see a video on pfds and floatation ratings. Because your info I trust
Thanks brother. I think if you dig into my older library you will find a video all about PFD’s. I believe it includes the PFD “types”
Hi from Australia new subscriber here I'm new to kayaking and your videos are totally awesome I'm leaning more toward the touring kayak I think it may benefit more in the long run
Glad you like the videos. Let me know if I can help you with anything.
Did I hear you correctly when you said the touring kayak wasn’t ideal for calm lake’s
No. I use a touring kayak on lakes all the time. (I would honestly have to go back and watch it to know what I actually said) I trained for the inside passage on lakes.
One thing to mention is to check out USED kayaks. There are people that choose to upgrade from a rotomold (heavier) kayak to a lighter weight kayak. The used boat will have plenty of life left!
Very true! And boats are easy to repair
I can't use a touring kayak mainly because I would be terrified to top it on my Kia Soul and head down the highways/freeways at 70 mph. Here in southern California there are very few rivers and some reservoirs and bays, but from where I live, they're all a good trip. And, I would have nowhere but outside to keep a kayak of that size.
But, I do have the choice of a shorter "day touring" PE or ABS kayak. My question is, are even snug, well-mounted ABS kayaks on a vehicle roof able to withstand all the vibrating, dips and bumps and jostling without concern for cracks or separation at the seams? If I would be driving several thousand miles a year with a kayak on top, would a more forgiving PE alternative be a better idea?
I am going to disagree with your first statement. I have driven from central North Carolina to Alaska, twice in a Toyota Yaris (4 door sedan version). Once with one 17 foot thermoformed kayak on the roof, and once with THREE 17 foot thermoformed kayaks on the roof. I have driven probably close to a hundred thousand miles with plastic boats on the roof of cars and vans, because my boats usually only come off the roof to paddle - I never have a place to store them. Now would I do that on the streets of Southern California (or New York where I am from originally) no. But I would bet if you look for paddling clubs you will find that they have places or ideas where you can store a boat. I have never done damage to a boat just from living on the roof in a rack, I have seen people damage boats when they don’t secure them correctly. Check out my video on “racking your kayak.” Yes, Poly boats are more durable, but not so much that I worry about a thermoformed boat on the roof of my various vehicles.
@@AdventureOtaku That is precisely what I wanted to hear. Read. Whatever. Thanks.
got my first kayak last year, got a fishing kayak for stability... too slow and too much work to car top, ordered a 15.5 gt delta for spring, can't wait to get on water :)
Yeah, a lot of fishing guys use trailers. Not only are the boats big and heavy, but they usually have a ton of gear on them.
I started with a delta 15.5gt 3-4 years ago and it's great. Ironically I want to start fishing now since my best friends got kayak but the fishing type. So I'm to fast for them and tend to loiter around. Going to try to clamp on a rod holder and start fishing from it.
Welcome back to GSO!
Well, I am in GSO this weekend to teach but I am moving to Pennsylvania.
@@AdventureOtaku Off the Lake Leesville for us - a better paddling lake than for jet skis. Also, turns into the Roanoke River at the dam. It’s a nice simple river going into Altavista.
Anyhow, enjoy your videos!
Thank you for watching!
Excuse me but you really weren't forceful enough. Or BLUNT! Where I paddle, there is a growing movement to regulate kayaking with multiple enforcement proposals and to tax all kayakers and to actively have marine patrols pull over kayakers on the water who are not outfitted properly. This is because of the proliferation of people using recreational kayaks in saltwater environments who cause problems and require assistance.
You're approach to your video was fun and I enjoyed it but you I was waiting, (and HOPING!) you would bring the hammer down and you didn't! Yo need some mo' WHOOP ASS! 🤣
So wait… you wanted me to say, no you can’t use a rec boat for camping? I say use it with caution but very little of what I say is a hard no or hard yes.
@@AdventureOtaku On flat water like lakes and ponds and streams and easy rivers, sure use a rec boat for camping. On anything else, like the ocean, don't use a rec boat AT ALL!
You have controlled your message coyly around camping as an out to avoid bringing the hammer down on miscreants!
BRING DA OTAKU HAMMER DOWN!
I agree with you and I assure you my avoiding wasn’t intentional. A lot of people have done this video and I wanted to come at it from a different direction.
Wait Kevin. Where do you paddle that that is going on? Really curious!
@@AdventureOtaku I paddle in Puget Sound, Straight of Juan DeFuca, Canada, NW Pacific Ocean and Inside Passage.
I read everything on your site, and I really like your site and your videos. I admit sometimes its fun to be a smart aleck and I was just being a little spanky, in a fun way. I always post fun loving emoji's when I am spanky!
There is an active, proposed movement here to require all kayakers to register their boats and obtain and pay for a Boater Registration Certification Card and have it in their possession at all times, similar to a Driver's automobile License and license plate tabs.
The proliferation of outdoor activities during covid, like recreational kayaking and the political defiance of covid social restrictions was primarily a red state vs blue state divide. Flat water lakes and streams and easy rivers are in more rural areas, and those areas are Red. Salt water is in the Blue part of the state. This is pretty similar in most states.
Rec kayaking became more & more popular but the inhibition to take a rec kayak where rec paddlers shouldn't go is simply not there. Camping or not, it doesn't matter. It's simply a lack of common sense.
In Washington State, ALL kayaking will soon be regulated.
A lack of common sense.
That's the problem.