Why can't the U.S. Build Any New F-22 Raptors
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 лис 2021
- A 2017 Pentagon report to Congress detailing production retail costs for Lockheed Martin’s F-22 Raptor show that reviving the powerful stealth air superiority fighter would be prohibitively expensive.
Moreover, it would take so long to reconstitute the production line that it would not be until the mid to late 2020s before the first “new” F-22s would have flown. By that time, the F-22 would be increasingly challenged by enemy-Russian and Chinese-capabilities.
🔔 Subscribe !
/ @usmilitary_news
Check out these top picks for you:
• Next Level Helicopters...
• F-111 Aardvark: A Jet ...
• F-117 Nighthawk: The W...
🔖 OUR SOCIAL MEDIA!
---------------------------------------------
📲 Facebook ► / usnmil
🐦 Twitter ► / usmil_news
Thanks - Наука та технологія
Oh they could build more but the cost is Stupid prohibitive. The materials and systems combined with the advanced engineering costs are staggering. Its almost cheaper too have a new generation fighter with more modern advancements than continue building an exotic 30 year old airframe. The stuff the USAF Super computers can achieve the last 10 years is quantum leaps ahead of the F22 and F35. The USAF's next gen fighters are going too be UFO's in comparison the things are so advanced.
This is why I upgrade my computer every few years with budget parts rather than an expensive system I have for 10 years
@@fritzstudios8571 🤣🤣🤣
I think that the F-22 in its current use will still be viable for certain situations. But I thinks the combined US armed forces are looking to the F-35 in it's variations to eventually work with the so called NGAD fighters being developed for the Airforce and Navy with the new 6 gen planes flying in the early 2030's. Apparently the US has already flown a prototype for the Airforce. So this platform is not far off. But I don't think the USAF is just going to mothball this plane. The F-17 is still being used secretly. The F-22 is still the most advanced fighter in the world. That is why it is still classified and can't be sold to US allies. There will be a use for it in the future.
I sure hope you are right!
Well the US better get it in gear. China is getting way ahead of us.
With weapons systems like the F22 you have to remember that development never stops even after cancellation. The next few generations are already on the drawing boards, if not in prototype already. The first stealth fighter, the F117 was flying years before anyone outside the pentagon knew it existed. And then there are the outside-the-box kind of programs like the "loyal wingman drone" concept.
nope
We could build a much better version today but it'd require a firm commitment to a very large number of them to keep cost per unit down to something reasonable. And it'd have to be a very advanced revised version that shares little in the way of airframe commonality. But of course it COULD be done. It would NOT make sense to simply make more F-22s in the same versions we already have. That'd be a step backwards.
Eow, don't be silly, why would you produce it again without improvements, another failure of crystal ball fools telling us what the future of War is going to be. Wondering how well the 100+ active F-22s will hold out when the time comes.....
Aircraft are continuously being modified with current technologies. The F-22 fleet is currently being modernized with new software. New ones are also being built in Palmdale CA
The NGAD, the F22 successor is already in development.
@@svenjorgensen5 😂
6th gen planes are being designed already, no point in trying to relaunch raptor production
the F-23 was not chosen because it was slightly less maneuverable than the F-22, it had a flaw in the cockpit design that resulted in dramatically increased radar reflectivity and it also had an airframe defect that produced an extended vortex trail from one wing during roles
you can see the F-23's at the National Museum of the United States Air Force in Dayton, Ohio and at the USAF Test Center Museum at Edwards Air Force Base, California
And here I'd always been told that it was because Lockheed had a track record of delivering fighters on time and close to budget, while Grumman's track record with fighters had been spotty (although they apparently killed it when it comes to bombers...)
That is, unless people claimed it was an entirely political decision and things like company track records and discovered design flaws were just cover excuses...
You're the first I've heard that has any sort of detailed list of physical reasons for the decision.
It coudn't execute the necessary angle of attack and that was a critical fail.
I wonder if the F-23 comes back in a form as the NGAD now that maneuverability is slightly less necessary as compared to larger weapons bays and increased stealth.
It came down to payload.
From the look of the YF-23 it didn’t have the full angles of thrust vectoring that the raptor has. Anyone know anything about this?
This video is more a history of the F-22, rather than explaining why we can't restart production.
You cant restart production because all the tooling and molds to create the jet were destroyed after the program was cancelled. it would be like starting from scratch... and if you have to start from scratch, might as well build something new.
@@brentduran675 true, but thats what the government does at the end of every program... if it was cancelled because it was "expensive"... how do you justify paying for the storage of all this tooling after the program ends?
@@omlettedufromage8588 yeah, it would be good to have a better understanding of the cost of storage so we could better assess the decision. I think even back then it was understood that the F-22 was the premier fighter in the world, so having the contingency to restart production, if needed, seems like it would have been prudent.
It's such a shame that such a plan wasn't put into place. Imagine what an upgraded F-22 (like the F-15 EX) would be like with today's technology.
I guess we'll just have to hope that the NGAD fighter can capture lightning in a bottle like the F-22.
@@brentduran675 it wasn’t just the storage cost that made them destroy everything that has to do with the plane, the F22 is the only fighter that we do not sell to other countries because of its advanced technology. They had to destroy it all after it was canceled, couldn’t let the let the secrets get out.
@@gregcreek5715 sorry, but that's a pretty flimsy argument.
Lockheed still has the plans for the F-22, and presumably the molds & tooling for reference, and with all that detailed information they still can't feasibly restart production. And since it's highly unlikely that someone could just walk in & out with the molds and tooling for an F-22, the risk that a foreign government could make a clone of the raptor is astronomically small, at best.
I just don't see that as a reasonable justification to permanently remove the option for the U.S. to ever restart F-22 production by destroying the molds and tooling.
The scale paradox: The fewer you make, the more expensive they are per unit.
It cost $3 billon just to retool the assembly line. That's before they can even start making a plane
Pentagon and Economics , not their strong suit.
@@jeremyst.george6711 the assembly tooling was cut up by a bunch of hacks and is currently being stored , it would cost more to retool the program a cost estimate was to expensive to restart
NEW COVID-19 OMICRON IS NOT AN ORDINARY INCIDENT 👉COVID-19 WILL CONVERT USA EUROPE INTO THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES N CHINA 🇨🇳 WILL EMERGE AS THE NEW SUPER POWER OF THE WORLD 👉 PEOPLE FROM USA EUROPE WILL COME TO PAKISTAN FOR JOBS 👉ENGLISH PRINCE WILLIAM N HARRY WILL WORK AS DRIVERS IN CHINA 🇨🇳
@@gautumbuddhabuddha8234 China has no ability to project power very far outside of its borders. All of that military hardware your country bought is useless cheap crap. I mean, your navy can’t even sail into open ocean because the crappy boats will fall apart! I hope my comment caused your social credit score to go down. If China wants to worry about someone, it should worry about it’s own government. Your people are the definition of the word oppressed.
The F-22 was the USAF's Seawolf. A Huge tech leap forward at the cost of enormous resources and development time. The price of the final product was always going to be cost prohibitive at the cold war's "end", but the "cheaper" versions that would soon follow benefit from all of it. The end result is an expertise that the other competing nations can only try to imitate, steal, or hoax their way through.
there are cheaper version of the F22? Please do share!!! NOT!!
@@jamesw71 my guess is some of tech goes f-35 or new f-16 development
You can't always take a seat calmly, now I've heard even military research have absurd amount affirmative action.
Even now American kids had PEMDAS mathematics
The big difference is that much of the air force equipment is sold to other countries for revenue. What does the navy sell? The navy should be thankful that we get revenue to buy submarines with sold F-16
One of the most advanced and fantastic planes. I've seen this plane flyby and let me tell you, the sound of freedom this plane makes is the most fantastic thing I've heard and seen.
I don't know much about military aviation, but the F22 is the coolest looking plane I have ever seen.
Look at the F-23
Happens in all of the services. The Navy had the Zummwalt. Basically the F-22 of destroyers. We were supposed to get like 29 or 30 of those ships. Development took too long. Cut down to 10 or 12 ships. Problems with the projectiles for the cannon. Finally cut down to just three ships. If they had just built all of the ships and replaced the cannon with vls system, the price would have dropped a considerable amount. Same with the F-22. If they had built the minimum required number the Air Force needed, the cost per plane would've still been high, but not the $120 million per plane as it currently sits. Maybe around 75-80 million per aircraft. Comparable to the F-35's cost today. Of course, as more F-35s get built, the cost should be reduced even further.
Lol, pentagon economics eh?
UA-cam commenter Military economist
Wait, you are comparing the most able F 22 with 185 produced with Zummwalt?
maintenance and running costs of f22s are extremely expensive too. their combat readiness are low too. You may argue about f35s, thats another topic :(
Politicians are all corrupt morons. Looks like the countries with dictators are being run better. Ironic.
The F22 is still the greatest air superiority fighter, even against the f35. It was considered too expensive to produce in greater numbers. Ironically, it would have been cheaper to build more than it would be to develop the F35
Difference is that the F35 was also meant as export with foreign investment.
F22 as far as I know is still limited to just the US.
The Eurofighter is better
@@valgo8128 The F22's radar signature is way smaller. It has destroyed 4 in real world combat exercises before they even detected the F22.
@@valgo8128 The facts would disagree with your statement. The Military has held simulations and war games that would clearly demonstrate that the raptor has a huge advantage a kill ratio of 241:2 against any fighter. You can not hit what you can not see. The Euro fighter missiles can not lock onto target. The only way to shoot a Raptor down is by luck in close visual combat where the f-22 runs into the stream of Euro Fighter bullets. In a real fight the Euro Fighter will be looking all over for the Raptor when all of the sudden it get's blown out of the sky.
You are right the cost per jet would have been cheeper to build than what we have invested in the f-35. It is stupid decisions like these that have marred the Obama administration.
The repairs an upkeep on an F22 after just a practice flight are astronomical. I live near Hill Air force base, and people who work on the F 22s after each flight talk about how much more they have to do compared to other aircraft.
There is a price for might and greatness! Sure it's not one to keep an open tab in peace times, but does the scene look like peaceful to you? I bet there's a secret F-22 evolution fighter jet, US would simply not accept loosing the might to Russia and China, especially on uncertain times.
@@drd9115 Always mate, I have no doubt the black ops skunk works projects reverse engineered tech from UFOS. They would have some type of UFO plane fighter and weaponry, just like how the first nuclear bomb dropped in japan shocked the world. The questions is are they more likely to keep it secret cause the technology is so powerful to release and likely make them a target to steal the information. And likely the cost to make these crafts are absurd to build an air fleet. We all know the Pentagon Black project Budget is Massive and its never ever been disclosed.
@@drd9115 We accepted a humiliating loss to a bunch of seventh century goat herders in afghanistan. We have plenty of humiliating loses ever since WWII exception Gulf 1. And now our ongoing proxy war with Russia isn't going very well either. Oh, but you think we can face off with China and Russia at the same time and win? Based on what, prior history? Sure.
All aircraft are expensive to maintain.
@Scolee Some a lot more than others.
I think you people under estimate how stupid and short sighted our government is. Our military gets plenty of money, but the bureaucracy and red tape choke out any hope of an efficient product.
Any government lol
agreed, just look at the development of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle and how it kept getting changed by inept DoD managers.
Any government with any program.
They wouldn't buy Rutan's ARES "Mudfighter" Close Air Support plane. The one example built used a 25mm gatling cannon. Fast, very maneuverable, accurate shooting. A bit small though. Scaled up enough to carry a 30mm cannon, a GAU-8/A with fewer barrels and smaller magazine, it could have been the perfect replacement for the A-10. Smaller, lighter, faster, more agile. Wouldn't carry as much ordnance but by virtue of being lower cost more could be built and they could cycle to and from the battle field faster, keeping CAS overhead just as much as the A-10's.
Even if produced just like the prototype, ARES would've been a good CAS plane for softer targets like trucks, APCs, artillery, missile launchers, etc.
A modernized F-22 platform will probably be the next step since there is so much invested in development.
@Varangian Guard there will not be a hybrid of a dual engine and single engine aircraft. Maybe avionics, that's about it.
For a measly 187 airframes? I doubt it unless its own the cheap (and it won't be). The USAF already has a Gen.6 Prototype fighter, I'd sooner see the money put into that.
It is already underway. They are getting the latest radar and an upgraded bus system that resembles the F35's system. The sensors are also being upgraded to make the super F 22 even more of a threat. They are also using a new type of radar reflecting coating that is more durable and easier to apply.
no, unmanned. period.
@Varangian Guard A plane with the F35’s stealth capabilities and the F22’s performance/maneuverability
Until someone can develop a more agile procurement process the rigid system in place will never allow for a product to hit the mission without 10-15 year old tech. Development is staked in place and the design is old when the ink is still wet on the contracts. The US just enjoys advanced technology 10 years ahead of most countries.
We are still using Windows XP for some of our military operating systems. We are not really ahead of much anymore.... We are spending the money but getting 20-30 years technology because buy to delivery takes 5-10 years right now on average. We are also spending Lamborghini money for a Geo metro. A screwdriver that is $3 at Home Depot is costing the taxpayers over $1000 in the F35 program.... It's mostly fraud waste and abuse to line the right people's Pockets and get certain people elected.
@@Phantom8589 you are not supposed to say anything about the systems in weapons. You are helping enemies. wtf . do not say anything about the capabilities of weaponry until it's needed. the element of surprise is a tool. You , just messed that up. you just lost your clearance. loose lips sink ships
@@gregsmith7828 Google it genius, it's open source. You're talking out your @ss.
agreed....need to fix the Congressional and DOD procurement systems as they are broken....so many overpriced programs in the last 50 years just because our government refuses to allow useless designs to just die off and their companies to go bankrupt. it is past time for our government to start rewarding innovation like we did during WW2 instead of throwing pathetic amounts of money at greedy defense contractors who continuously fail to deliver.
You know what speeds up processes and cuts the abusive BS huge devastating war or the threat of it unfortunately and that’s about it. Look at the turn around time during Ww2 or the worst days of the Cold War compared to now
I was in the USAF for years, after becoming a mechanical engineer, working for various defense contractors. I can tell you with absolute certainty 'believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear'. When it comes to US defense hardware. IF you are seeing or hearing about some NEW weapon system... it is either dis-information, or actually more than 10 years old and obsolete. As both the F-22 and the F-35 are.
So, in other words, we're moving so fast technologically that it doesn't matter if put something out. If the masses see it, it is already scrapped, junk, or just plain out? Right?
@@benjaminphilips7506 I also think that conventional warfare is not anymore what the powers that be are too concerned about.
@@karimshebeika8010 I disagree. It's exactly programs like these that allow the powers to be to not be too concerned about conventional conflicts.
@@benjaminphilips7506 Yes. Look up 'Moores Law' it pretty much applies to everything in the sciences today.
Moore's Law states that the number of transistors on a microchip doubles about every two years, though the cost of computers is halved. In 1965, Gordon E. Moore, the co-founder of Intel, made this observation that became known as Moore's Law.
I see f22’s fly over my house like 24/7 😂
Epic! I’ve never seen one flying. Though I’ve seen one at the air-force museum in Ohio. Such a cool plane
Where. Do. You. Live.
Do you hear their howl? I heard them at Sun N Fun when they first arrived and did a few fly overs.
Your lucky all I get here in Houston is f18s and f16s
I think a large portion of the blame lies with the defense contractors. Sure they make amazing equipment but you can't tell me that they sometimes drag out the development of a weapon system to keep in raking in government money. In the case of the F-22 current events in the world bit them in the ass and more resources had to be diverted to ground forces and the F-22 was a convenient target.
main thing that killed it was the tech in it that could not be sold to other nations, is why the slower lesser plane is being made, cause we can sell it, it always comes down to money
this is exactly the case, they have to keep an army of engineers on the payroll and they can't do that after they go to production, they always have something that needs re-engineered and fixed because it was poorly designed to begin with.
@@jamesw71 there's a whole lotta truth to what you said. mainly because the engineers that knew their stuff (40's, 50's, 60's) are dying off. this newer gen of pencil heads just cant think outside the box. i've run across entire designs that cant be assembled or installed because i'm not weight-less or have hands the size of an elf.
Yeah that’s actually a really good point. As amazing as these aircraft are they shouldn’t take half a century to build. Obviously trying to milk as much money from the government LOL.
Worked with these beautiful birds for 6 years, simply the best aircraft I had the pleasure of being around. My favorite bird!
Stealth tech was evolving so fast at the time, it really made sense to move on with the F-35 rather than trying to upgrade the F-22. Smart move overall. Much like the time we moved from prop driven to jets. We didn't retrofit jet engines to prop planes - we just moved forward with all new jet designs.
interesting to see the control systems making minor adjustments during hands off flight then that input fades quickly during strong control inputs from the pilots. Id love to play with one of these for a few years.
Fly by wire. Fighter planes are deliberately aerodynamically unstable these days, so much so that they need computers to make constant minor adjustments to keep them flying.
@@dimwitsixtytwelve yep. The computers keep the plane flying firey end to the rear, pointy end to the front. Pilot inputs essentially tell the computer to allow the natural instability of the plane to be allowed to be unstable toward the desired direction.
If the design of the F-22 is complete and sound, why would you cancel it? We did not do this with the F-15C or F-16 or F-18. In fact, we now have updated versions of all 3. Just get all three planes on the same software so they can talk to each other. An F-18 block III, F-15EX, F-22, F-35, and the F-16V all together would be a good stable of aircraft. If they all talked together on the same software instead of the shim layer they use today, they could easily coordinate strike in the air and on the ground. Sprinkle a few hundred ghost drones and all set. These guys really don't build a force to achieve a mission. They try too hard to get one plane to do everything. The A-10 is a good example. Generals really shouldn't be making these decisions based on contracts with suppliers. They should be leading the requirements to suppliers from the troops.
excellent comment, and here's a little insight... it's not a great design... the outside is sexy for sure and everybody's brain seems to stop at that aspect, but everything else below the skin is absolute hot garbage! the tail vanes, nicknamed "the tacos" (the vertical pieces that wall in the clamshell exhaust on each engine) are made of titanium... and due to its the design, they only last 100 operational hours and then they need to be changed out because they crack. the Missile def system (chaff/flare cannisters) are over designed and extremely difficult to adjust/calibrate. it's installation has more angle options for chaff/flare ejection available than it would ever need, all other combat aircraft with a missile def sys only have 1 angle orientation... this system has like 10 and the only way to change this angle (because it's not powered moveable) for a new one is to rip it apart and start over like a fresh install. the wing carry-thru structure was also over designed (too stiff...structural cracking) requiring a modification program to be developed to cut into the airframe and create structural flexibility. the mint green color you see is mostly a thin veneer of bondo to give the aircraft a slippery smooth shape. this also leads to additional maint down the line when this also cracks... not to mention the proprietary radar absorbing paint application that would also need to be replaced. this bird is nicknamed "the F-22 Crapster" for good reasons. *edited to add... the "tacos" i referred to are the vertical pieces between these guys heads in the thumbnail for this vid.
@@omlettedufromage8588 the mint green is a primer paint you clearly don’t know anything about the aircraft , I assembled and applied the stealth coating , as far as the structural cracks it never existed you clearly don’t know anything about the F22 program
@@talkingrock7011 Hilarious... because i was on the wing mod team at site 10 (AF Plant 42) in 2007/8. i was an experimental mech that was invited to the mod team (from EAFB) to help "un-F" this garbage. my primary task was to work the carry thru bolt mounts for the wing that were milled out (cut out) to add titanium tubs under the bolt head to provide flexibility to the wing join area. in between aircraft mod cycles, i worked on rebuilding the tail tacos in their rebuild shop. when they were not busy, i had free time to work on any other squawks on the bird. i was all over it. the mint green FR (fluid resistant prime is a bondo). what else do you want to know... the time the morning burrito truck shows up or that you actually enter a smaller building (to the south of site 10) and walk underground for about 300ft and pop up in the center of the main hangar at site 10? dont clown me bro, i have 20 years in the circus. *edited to add... all the structural seams aft of the main gear (top/bottom) of the fuselage are faired (smoothed) with a bondo type filler (mint green).
"Peace Divided" - the F-22 was viewed as unnecessary given the collapse of the USSR and the "inevitable" tread toward liberal democracy that china would no doubt experience as it climbed out of poverty from trading with the west. With no peer/near peers being able to win a dog fight wouldn't matter.
AF Buying Commands Ensuring the F-35 program's future - The AF & Lockheed knew if there was an alternative 5th gen (especially one so much more capable like the F-22) to the F-35 program if it grew in cost, delay, or technical limitation decision makers would consider canceling the program and buying more F-22s. To keep this from happening they made sure the line was shut down early in the F-35 development.
Exports - The F-22 was prohibited from being sold to foreign nations since it was "too advanced". This meant foreign sales couldnt be used to keep economies of scale or manufacturing lines open like many US military equipment supply lines. This cost US contractors money and opened opportunities for foreign manufacturers to fund develop 4th gen+ aircraft to fill the gap for the international market. The F-35 was meant to be export friendly to keep the US in the top line international fighter game.
Future Development - The sensor/computers on the F-22 weren't optimized for pilotless flight, the F-35 has a lot more going on there. I think the airforce sees the follow up to the F-35 as a pilotless plane, so upgrades which improve the F-35's AI will be key to that future planes development while F-22 upgrades would do little.
@@link10909 why AI why not just remote piloting like they do with drones? No matter what AI or drone a footage feed will always be there right?
It’s a year later and the US has built over 900 F-35s, completely eclipsing the total number of F22 raptors ever built and well on it’s way to reaching 1700 units by 2025.
A part frim its capabilities, the design of the F-22 itself is by far gorgeous.
So now we're looking at six generation fighters and all the testing and all the improvement that has been made on the F-22 is going in the 6th generation fighter. Which is probably in testing as we speak.
Trillions of more dollars are being wasted when we won't get the several hundred aircraft we truly need, while more pork will flow to politicians back pockets and backyards to keep them getting elected and stealing money from taxpayers for these unneeded programs.
F-22 is the most beautiful jet of all time in my opinion.
The F-14 would like a word
@@stevencramsie9172 meh, corners too sharp.
The recent conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan showed that small, cheap drones can do as good job as large piloted aircraft for the fraction of the price.
Not true. Wildly inconsistent data, incomparable air assets and capabilities, and completely different air defense networks proves you completely and utterly wrong. Phalanx Grid > Drone Swarm
it all depends on their defense systems what is needed. by that logic, just shoot a few missiles and call it good
What if your opponent has world class radar and Cyber warfare system.
@@realShikha885 most long range are pre programmed and shielded from emp
Saw the F-22 at last weekend's airshow and it was awesome; it kept itself right in front of the flightline through brute force.
Too right mate.
maybe it should visit real battlefield not airshows?
Anyone that believes money is an issue for the US military is kidding themselves. Most likely the long development time resulted in another aircraft, most likely secret, that is operating or soon will be that surpasses the capabilities of the F-22. The F-22 was designed in the 1980’s with its first flight in September 1990. That’s 30 years ago! What computer, cell phone, car etc… are companies still building and people still buying today that’s 30 years old? Apple didn’t stop making the original iPhone made in 2007 because it’s too expensive. They stopped making it because it’s old AF!
@Jeffery Franks that comment right there!
USA is slowly learning that if they need to launch a F-22 or F-35 every time they need to shoot down a 20 year old terrorist Toyota Hilux, the terrorist are actually the ones winning.
Not the point the usa still protects the tech of f22 even 30 years later and us pilots are not allowed to show its full capabilities when doing joint excersize with other countries the point is its the most advanced fighter we have even better then f 35 can ever hope to be
@@slurp3194 The point is Air Superiority is a top priority at The White House, The Pentagon and Congress. It’s also the top priority of Air General Staff. That’s one budget and one mission capability that will always be addressed for a myriad of reasons. I wouldn’t be too concerned with no more F-22 rolling off the production line.
I feel sad that the F-22 Raptor fell, luckily F-15 Found it's place once more as the F-15EX variant!
Saw these ripped through the skies in an air show in Alaska and they truly are magnificent machine
7:34 *smoothest landing ever!!*
I would imagine that the US is working on the 6th Generation fighter with Multi-Role capabilities (Bomber/Reconnaissance/etc)
1st 6th grn prototype already tested
@@pritiagarwal5599 proof? link?
@@ForYeshua1 proof: trust me bro
Already exists.
@@Stevonoles1 testing the aircraft commenced in feburary 2020. The airframe and propulsion are alive and well, as for links...well there are not any, im sure you expected that on such a project.
These aren’t reasons why the US can’t make F-22s anymore. These are reasons why the US stopped making them. There isn’t any reason why the US couldn’t restart making them if they really wanted to.
There is, they literally melted down or destroyed the tools used to build the F-22 when they shutdown the program. So even if they attempted to restart the program they would have to either go along with a different way of building it or reinvent the dam tools before attempting to rebuild f-22's and no using F-35 tool wouldn't work cause they are completely different jets and the way they built them is completely different. Reason for them destroying everything after program was shutdown was simply because they were afraid some of it would end up in Chinese or Russian hands.
one very good reason, cost, Uncle Samantha has no cash and F22 is so expensive and useless you may as well throw gold bars at the enmy...
The plane hasn’t been made in over a decade. The workers and the knowledge they possess have moved on. The facilities to build them have been reassigned to other projects. Lockheed isn’t going to stop F-35 production and leave a factory ideal for years to start a F-22 production line. Especially when there’s a lucrative export market for F-35s and F-22s are banned from export. It’s simply not worth the cost.
@@jasonpeacock9735 none of those are reasons why they can’t, just reasons why they won’t.
Good overview. Thanks.
It's hard to believe that the F-22 is that old.
They are having a hard time even fixing the ones they currently have. They are having to use advanced 3D printing just to get the parts they need as the vendors that built the original F-22s have scrapped the tooling that was used to make the original parts.
IIRC Lockheed-Martin preserved all of its' F-22 jigs and tooling putting them into secure storage. LM could put the F-22 back into production however it would take several years to reestablish the production line and train new workers, this would cost hundreds of billions of dollars.
@@nicholasmaude6906 if you call cutting up the fixtures by a bunch of hacks , I was there thru all of the aircraft , it’s being stored all right in pieces
Probably on orders from the pentagon. SOP.
@@talkingrock7011 Good Stewards of citizens money.
@@talkingrock7011 Good to know .
I still think the best part is that it's still one of the best fighter aircraft built, even though it's maneuverability is supposedly nerfed as to not kill the pilot in the seat. I'd be interested to see what it could do if all the software nerfs were removed and they had an AI flying it as to not kill the squishy thing that is usually in the seat... just out of curiosity. I mean that could be a lie but anyone outside of the development and flight programs would never know until the thing was an antique and shown in museums 50-100 years from now.
Maneuverability don't matter since over horizon attacs became a thing
This programs timeline is a testament to why we ended up in a war for 20yrs. With military purchases constantly being cut, they were happy to do whatever it took to get those budgets back up again. It became a lockheed vrs General Dynamic lobbying teams.
As an Apache pilot... I'm extremely jealous of the men and women who have the chance to fly this absolutely beautiful aircraft
As an armchair pilot, I'm extremely jealous of the men and women who get to fly any real aircraft😂
Then why join the army
@@bobmac6050 mistakes were made
I heard that the only reason they chose the yf 22 over the yf23. It’s because Northrop Grumman was already building or build the B2 Stealth bomber. They didn’t wanna make Northrop Grumman too rich so they went with the yf 22 Made by Lockheed Martin. Got to make competition I guess..
Ok but then they give Lockheed the F-35 program? That theory sounds suspicious.
@@loganholmberg2295 The F 35 was a joint program various countries put money into it so everybody could peek underneath the hood. The only thing the US kept from that was the off switch anybody gets smart ideas and they They hit the switch all plane becomes useless
@@loganholmberg2295 And China has a cheaply made copy of it to
@@Straightarrow213 Very obviously, the joint countries part came later, and would have been applied to the F-23 if that was the one chosen.
@@unfurling3129 I don’t understand .what do you mean??
Realistically speaking, if there is going to be a military conflict between the US and Russia or China, would it matter if we have 187 raptors vs 2,000 raptors when we all would be flying hypersonic nuclear missiles?
I'd just like to see us aquire 300. That's a solid number to have on such a good fighter.
@@Tikimohn no point. Once we have that number we would already be getting the 6th gen aircraft
Nice footage !!
F--22 is without doubt the best fighter anyone has ever produced.
All I'm sayin is F-35 program has gone on for twice as long and with a greater cost expenditure, if the program had gone on for even another 5 years it would have exceeded the F-35 even in ground strike capability as they could have made upgrades by makeing future designers more compatible with tech of the day
It never would've exceeded the F-35 in ground strike capability because there never were plans to integrate an EOTS equivalent. The F-22 was air superiority and always designed for it.
Restarting the assembly plant would be idiotic, that's why. If they kept the raptor frame and included new avionics and flight systems, that would be ideal.
remember the rh66 Comanche? the techs are so advance they can't afford to build it, but its remaining software and hardware eventually transcends to every part of armed forces. Weapon systems > Apache. Composite blades > uh1y , ah1z rotors or even the stealth capability to build the secret stealth black hawk.
The skin on this jet is amazing looks from another planet.
Your question: Did America make a giant mistake? Answer: Yes, once again! The YF-22 Raptor is probably the greatest fighter ever designed, tested and produced in our history…
in all history. the greatest fighter ever created
And its cheaper than the f-35
@@benwatso Well when you total in the ridiculous development costs yes. 400-500 billion wasn't it? Yikes. Per unit the F-35 is little under half the price but tbh how many F-22's can you build for 400 billion? Yeah we'd be oversupplied on fifth-gen monsters for the next sixty years. Even if we cut out 200 billion from that number to represent the theoretical cost of rebuilding production lines for the F-22, still an ungodly amount of air power.
@@CountSpartula I think you could engineer modern cnc machine centers and robotic automation for production lines and manufacture at vastly improved capacity and capability.. if approached with any level of seriousness. Should setup Canada to produce them and supply a percentage of production to usa navy, who have none to protect their f35s, so they can replace their aging f16s with something that can standup to Russia and China a bit better and help joint operations with the usa's new gen fighters. If we can get Canada an aircraft carrier and get it tooled maybe we can get some nato commitments actually fulfilled.
Move f35 to Canada after productionnlines established to finish supply obligations and the USA goes full out on production for the new generation.
It's designed for a mission that will never happen.
If we were to have an actual WW3(god forbid) without nukes, these super high-tech planes would only see service in very special niche uses and general air-superiority would have to be achieved by cheap and quick to build/repair fighters.
Not really survivability would be everything. F22 beats every other fighter including f 35. Usa values f22 so much they dont let pilots use full capability during joint exercises with other countries thats how ahead it is
Yeah no. Cheap fighters would just get pilots killed.
Not really, without stealth capabilities cheaper fighters are too vulnerable to the many kinds of anti air weapons available, at least in a peer to peer context (like the aforementioned ww3).
Keep in mind, over the horizon missile attacks have been a thing since at least the iran iraq war, and more stuff like that is largely the future of aerial warfare.
Now it's interesting just to improve the F-22...regards from Brazil.
Most badass fighter in the world
I’m a 61 year old Navy veteran and I find the use of the word “can’t” following “America” offensive and something that would be unthinkable back in the day!
America can't fail. :-)
Ha ha. That's funny. Blind faith. China is moving full speed ahead. China still makes almost everything US citizens buy. How can anyone expect the US to remain first?
I don't want to hear "American't"
NEW COVID-19 OMICRON IS NOT AN ORDINARY INCIDENT 👉COVID-19 WILL CONVERT USA EUROPE INTO THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES N CHINA 🇨🇳 WILL EMERGE AS THE NEW SUPER POWER OF THE WORLD 👉 PEOPLE FROM USA EUROPE WILL COME TO PAKISTAN FOR JOBS 👉ENGLISH PRINCE WILLIAM N HARRY WILL WORK AS DRIVERS IN CHINA 🇨🇳
@@gautumbuddhabuddha8234 West could have done something different since the end of 2019, but now it is too late.
Having the best planes and technology is not the only thing that makes the US strong. It's also having the best pilots and the most experienced pilots. If we can take anything from those endless wars it's being battle-tested.
exactly.
as a aviation maintenance guy, this is something ive tried explaining to people. No other country on earth trains their pilots as much as the US does.
@@spaceisalie5451 Totally agree. When I was in Desert Shield in the early '90s I think we did about 75% training and 25% sending rounds downrange. Now grant it really wasn't a full-on war back then. Non-less training was always a priority on down times.
The United Country is the most Lethal Weapon! The Divided Country with D-RATS in-charge is doomed to submission by the Dragon of the East in Alliance with Grizzly Bear of the East! The D-Scalped Eagle of the Grey House is NO match against this alliance..........!
@Jellyfish Didn't your mom tell you that I did and it really worked because her eyes were rolled back to her head....? LMAO
The F-22 is the best fighter in the it's time, and will hold that title for the next century.
This video didn't actually address the question it posed for itself...namely, why we can't restart production, unless I missed it. But it is clear that we have something better coming with NGAD, so diverting money to more F-22s at this point would be a bad idea. Nevertheless, I think the short answer to why it was cancelled is that American law-makers rarely think long-term enough. They don't keep before the them the well-known facts that nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, air superiority fighters, etc. are not researched and built in a year. You plan now to fight the war you think is coming 15-20 years from now... not next year's war or even a war 5 years away.
It cost $87.7 million per airframe for us to buy F-15EXs. A variant of an aircraft *_still in service and in production._* How much do you think an F-22, which was already expensive when we had production up and running, cost? Unless we were looking to buy about 500+ F-22s, restarting production of it would be just as costly and designing and manufacturing a new airframe. It would be *_THAT_* expensive. So expensive you might as well just take tax payer dollars and flush them down the toilet. Welcome to the United States military procurement process and defense contracting. Leave your sanity and reason at the door.
@UCpXlFb569l1Ckj8j7huwbOg Right, I agree. Which is why I mentioned that all money and attention should be given to NGAD at this point. My bigger point is that I think F-22 was still cancelled too early (2008) because, as you say, leaving our sanity and reason aside we don't make long-term defense building decisions by taking our enemy's capabilities into account.
Lots and lots of BS videos on yt nowadays, this is one
We have 3,300 fighter jets in just the Air Force alone and like 1,900 fighter jets in the Navy (doesn't include other planes like bombers). I believe the next nation is Russia with 1,900 total planes. Pretty sure we haven't lost air superiority and if a war broke out I'm sure we can pump out F-22 like M&M's!
@@chrisyanover1777 Right. But I don't think the issue is numbers, but quality. And the truth is that both China and Russia are producing aircraft with the quality to defeat our best. China is also producing at a higher rate than we are, at the moment. And, as this video and other comments have argued, we simply can't start pumping out F-22s. In the 21st century, you don't start pumping out anything, like we did in WW2, because the systems are too complex. And a war today with either major nation would be over in days, weeks at most---there is no time to build anything in wartime. Those times are long gone.
I think it odd that the United States of America cannot build F-22s anymore, but Japan can rebuild the F-23 into their own sixth-generation fighter.
But they won't. They've done studies to prove that to start their own program would be cost prohibitive without the help of American Areospace.
@@loganholmberg2295 You're mistaken because Japan has already announced the beginning of the Mitsubishi F-X, which is based on the YF-23 Black Widow. Still, modern upgrades make it a sixth-generation indigenous fighter to replace the F-2, which was based on the F-16.
it's not that the US can't build anymore F-22's, it that it just doesn't make sense. They are already developing the next generation fighter so why restart the F-22 production when something newer/better is being developed.
As for the YF-23 being used for Japans new fighter they might be using the design as a basis but every single system would have to be upgraded, the F-23 first flew in 1990 - that's 31 years ago.
@@TheRealCartman1 Just because we have something newer in the works doesn't mean it will be better. The F-22 is a known quality with a known and unimpressive quantity. We should build more, so if the newer sixth-generation fighters don't pan out, we'll have F-22s to fall back on. Maybe we could update them like the Japanese are doing with the YF-23, so the F-22 could stay relevant for longer.
we build a sixth gen its better then the raptor look up the black program and we probably could the us isn't stupid they just tell countries we can do something that we can do
It would cost more to restart production than to start from scratch with a new 6th gen fighter. Many of the sub contractors are gone.
but the technology and blueprints still exist. if china can reverse engineer . then we can build.
the subcontractors would appear out of the woodwork, the designs already there, doesn't take that much to retool their facilities, not with todays computerized systems.
The biggest problem with the F-22 is maintenance costs.
Apparently it uses a first generation smart which is very maintenance intensive.
If rumors are true F-22's replacement is currently undergoing flight testing.
Such amazing looking planes. Sadly they are not being build anymore.
These things couldn't be used in any serious large scale war with a major power-they require far too much maintenance time/repair with their stealth coatings after flying for only short times.
Not if the coating was properly applied , I used to install the coating
Not true at all. Regularly deployed to the Middle East. They just repair the coatings before they leave.
When i was on active duty the F16 and F15's were required to be maintained at 85% mission capability (mine was always above 90% each month). These days the standard is down to 70% even for the F16 and F15's because of piss poor leadership more worried about pandering to the LGBTQ community, ensuring everyone uses proper pronouns, and giving all airmen timeouts when they are having a bad day. Infrastructure has gone to shit because more money is spent on college-style dorms for new troops than for maintenance, supply systems have been backlogged beyond anything we ever saw, even when forward deployed which is treasonous at worst. Some of these new, supposedly maintenance-friendly aircraft are 50% or lower in mission-capable rates which is Fraud Waste and Abuse but as we all know when reported that the Air Force Inspector General system is a politically charged and inept institution that is incapable of conducting the mission it was charged with.
@@jamesw71 why should treating people with respect, compassion, and giving them a decent standard of living when they are protecting the country be a bad thing?
you sound like a homophobic boomer. get with the times. you can run a tight ship and also treat people like humans..
@@elijahmartin5291 I served for 20 years...and nice homophobic language there...bet you aare a white supremacist racist too.
The Airforce already has a 6th gen fighter that they've admitted has already flown. Not to mention the black program stuff they have flying in the desert that would blow our minds. There is no need for the f22 anymore, but I still love that plane.
Murica!
Though the price of a 6th gen fighter will probably be more than what we've ever seen before
Incorrect. They stated they flew a prototype. It could have been 1/4 scale, lol. Certainly don't think it was much more than that considering they wouldn't have been able to conceal the funding for this long.
@@danielh1708 please don't comment. You're making yourself look foolish.
The UFO drones
The F-35 was promised to be cheaper and better. Turns out it isn’t cheaper or better.
Absolutely gorgeous aircraft.
Aren't allot of the molds and such for the F-22 destroyed or lost as well?
True
The newer updated version of the F22 is being built NOW, which adds numerous new capabilities! More F22’s are not being built because the sixth generation fighter is about ready for production making the F22 obsolete!
What’s it being called
more wasted money, not needed
I love those planes. They look so cool, cost so much, and so easy to shoot down...
Except not one has ever been shot down. Not a single F22 has ever lost an engagement, much less has been shot down.
The f22 is easily the coolest looking fighter jets to ever exist.
I was at the Oshkosh air show in 2018 and waited in line to talk to an F22 pilot that was standing in front of his plane. He was talking to several people at once, so I simply walked up to listen. When I had my chance to talk to him, I told him that I was an aspiring pilot and had only logged around 10 hours in a little Piper Warrior. Extremely intimidated by talking with the pilot and standing next to the F22, I told him how very much in awe I was of him. He looked at me and smiled and said, "I also got my start in a Piper Warrior." I was so humbled by that comment that it stayed with me. Im in my 50s and this guy in his early 30's. He told me to simply stay with it because it is possible.
Thank God we have have pilots like him in the greatest country in the history of the planet.
That last sentence 😂😂😂
the greatest country ever is the netherlands, sorry to burst your bubble
@@simonvelten91 The Netherlands?! They don’t even count! Lol! NOBODY cries to the Netherlands when their is a crisis in the world nor has anyone ever looked to the Netherlands for any kind of leadership! lol.... Please....
@@simonvelten91 actually its new zealand, you liar.
1) cost
2) tech advancement over the years since the F22 was developed, allows for more streamlined jets that can be produced at a cheaper/ faster ate
3) bad economic conditions
4) maybe leverage the old YF23 design to build something just as bad ass for cheaper
Always liked the YF23 design more. Apparently, Japan feels the same way!
I am not supporting the cheaper materials platform.
The F-22 is such a badass plane.
Damn I love that airframe.
The YF 23 out performed the 22 and they still chose the 22. I think it had something to do with looks 😂
Follow the money. No doubt Lockheed Martin puts way more money into the pockets of America's politicians.
The F22 has a higher speed and range than the F35.
@@harveyweizman were not talking about the 35 😂
@@harveyweizman look up the 23
@@harveyweizman The production F-22 is a vastly different plane from the prototypes. The F-23 also would have gone through a major rework. The F-117 got a massive alteration from the "Have Blue" prototype with a fatter fuselage and less wing sweep so an internal weapons bay would fit.
USAF Might focus on rationalizing F-35 Program cost for now
But may also need a new 4.5 generation fighter as AF CofS Gen. Charles Brown mentioned.
I suggest KF-21 project1 of South Korea as a potential partner platform for this.
With Lockheed Martin's aid, KF-21 Quite resembles Raptor in its form, with way reasonable price and modernized Avionics.
Easy Upgrade with sawtooth stealth design and advanced Avionics of U.S
might create a modernized Mini-Raptor in a reasonable price.
That's why they've ordered new F-15's loaded with a whole bunch of ordnance mounting points to carry weaponry which the F-35 will remotely launch and direct to targets. So the F-35 will be an armed Forward Air Control while the F-15 will be flying artillery.
I still wish they picked the YF23 but I’ve still always liked the raptor.
prob the most sexy plane every built that actually functioned
The Russian and Chinese air forces were never really out of Business. I still prefer the F-22
At this point make more sense to just skip f22 for next generation.
Dragging on may have contributed to killing the program, but the other side of the coin is the cost of purchasing and maintaining 400 more F22s with no application for them.
The f22 is Probably one of the best looking planes
She's such a gorgeous bird
No mistake-the F-35 is more than just a fighter, it’s a sensor, communication, and data platform. The modern battle space is more focused up total force integration and information availability than on fighter v fighter. That way of thinking is virtually irrelevant now, as stealth, information access, and sensor quality will determine who wins.
It's the most impractical and worst investment in military aviation history.
@@Oplix Maybe for the original developers, but now other countries can acquire it for a relatively low price tag which makes it a great purchase for them.
It's an ATM for the US government/LM pure cash. Canada funded some of the program (~$1 billion) and we aren't even buying any F-35s!
@@Oplix literally the opposite but ok
Aren’t F-35s essentially AWACS that can fight while coordinating complex air missions?
I love to remind everyone - "5th generation fighter" is a marketing term coined by Lockheed
But…….accurate.
It is marketing at its finest.
Trying to promote there own product over the competition.
@@larsjrgensen5975 but Accurate.
@@MarineScoutSniper What is the official classification of being a 5th gen fighter then?
@@larsjrgensen5975 Fourth generation fighters are widely considered to be fighters that are capable of sustaining supersonic speeds, utilize some variation in fly-by-wire technology, improved avionics and limited, if any, stealth capabilities. Fourth generation aircraft were designed without stealth in mind, but some have had their radar signatures slightly reduced using things like radar absorbent coatings.
Fifth-generation aircraft are supposed to be highly maneuverable, but of course, that’s a subjective qualification - the F-35 is considered the stealthiest fighter on the planet, but it would easily be outmaneuvered by a long list of fourth generation fighters. Other elements that are often touted as fifth-generation specific include advanced avionic systems, multirole capabilities, and the ability to “supercruise,” or fly at supersonic speeds without having to engage afterburners. However, both China and Russia’s fifth-generation aircraft don’t seem to have that capability currently. Thus we refer to them as 4th+ Generation.
Perhaps the most important element of the fifth-generation fighter beyond stealth, then, is likely their ability to serve as a networking hub for other air and land assets. The F-35, for instance, is widely seen as among the most advanced data fusion platforms in combat today, offering the capability to communicate with and even control a wide variety of sensors, drones, and other assets on the battlefield. Interconnectivity is integral on the battlefield of the future, and fifth-generation fighters are expected to serve that strategic master in some capacity.
So in Summation. Fifth Generation AIRCRAFT are the next step in the evolution of Air Superiority Fighters. It’s one of the reasons it’s been 30 years since the first fifth generation aircraft was introduced and why it will more than likely be a few more years before a sixth generation will be unveiled. (Although I believe it’s already been built and ready to fly sorties or has already flown sorties with no signs it was there).
I don't care what it cost but F22 raptor is so good
The F 22 should be used and continued. The bird is worth it.
Never answered the question, “why can’t the USA build more F-22’s?” As in, we still have the blueprints and technology, we still have the manufacturers, they probably still have some of the tooling…why couldn’t they reopen the program and restart manufacturing given a need a a budget?
One of the explanations I've heard is that the technology has advanced to the point that using most of the equipment originally outfitted in the F-22 wouldn't be viable, and thus would need to be completely upgraded, as you'd want to build it for both the threats of today as well as the threats of the future. Differences in the weight and size of different systems would throw off the overall balance of the aircraft, and by the time you redesign around that, you're looking at almost a whole new aircraft. I personally think that would've been preferable to the bloated F-35 program. Then again, the F-22 was never an export aircraft, while the F-35 was intended to be from the outset.
@@mikedejesus7064 you can upgrade a f-18 with new technology as they have done and shown that for the cost it is very competitive in most roles besides the stealth role
We need s to be working on our new fighter if they have 5th gens we have 6gens and with how long it takes to develop a new bird and the cost involved
You need to make sure funds are available for the new plane
We got a few that should hold us for now while we build the new generation
@@mikedejesus7064 also, most of the electronics and other tech was developed over 30 years ago so its basically obsolete and it would take billions just to modify the designs and several billion more just to get production started again. on top of that, congress prolly wont allow this plane to ever be exported so the US will have to bear all this cost alone imo
Aren't allot of the molds and such for the F-22 destroyed or lost as well? Avionics and electronics can be updated. Just look at what has been done on the F-15 and the latest block of super hornets or heck what Saab has done with the Gripen. I think the biggest problem is that the production lines have been closed and allot of data and expensive molds has been lost or destroyed.
S-400 killed F-22 program lol
I'm shocked we can do anything, considering we support most of the world when it comers to defense.
The F22 is probably still the deadliest fighter in the sky its amazing what it can do.
I really wanted to see the Northrop YF-23 developed.
The biggest errors with the F-22 program are two fold. First is losing the ability to fast track a restart of the F-22 production line to produce more plane if and when needed. From other news on the program they can't even make new ones now without a lot of time and money going into starting things from scratch production wise and tooling. Given wars can start at any time this is a major tactical failure. The second major issue was the US government banning sales of the plane to other countries. Given how close america and its allies work together its madness to ban sales of the plane to at least the best of your allies like australia.
Most of what you say is true, but once you let the genie out of the bottle you have no idea where it may go. The choice to keep F22 out of everyone’s hands was a wise decision. It delayed Russia and China from getting advantage of reverse engineering technology which would have been more madness. Next, the Y-23 was a better aircraft, but as usual Congress people have their fingers into pots they shouldn’t and they wanted to make money at the expense of their country. Even today Congress members are voting and pressuring for things that they should not be allowed to be connected to, part of corruption in politics.
Lol Australia!😆 literally they are way down the pecking order as ‘best allies’!
The F-22 was never banned from export.
@@danielh1708 half true. an export version, read that as f-22 'lite' could have theoretically been produced, but the original was a no go.
@@danielh1708 According to a number of government publications and videos have stated the F-22 is restricted 🚫, even from Allie’s.
The biggest issue was congress banning the sale of the raptor to friendly countries. The F-35 was allowed to be sold hence it’s still viable.
The F-22 was never banned from export.
@@danielh1708 what? I'm pretty sure Congress banned the sale when Turkey started to be an asshole
Veľkolepé lietadlá sú v prevádzke s veľkou armádou! Ste skvelí kolegovia
Military to the government: listen WE JUST WANT A NEW TOY TO PLAY WITH
Make the YF-23 given its a high speed supercruising long range stealth aircraft, appropriate in containing China.
I think it really boils down to greed. A big reason why these projects cost so much is because the federal contractors who build these and the companies involved get open ended checks from uncle sam. They milk it out and end up blowing up cost and wasting time.
187 is a good number. But I wish it had been at least a good 300 built.
Make no mistake, we can and will build anything we want! Bigger and better! Best to not go backward though.
You wanna know what the problem is with this program? Its easy without a video being needed to tell you why. Here it is in a nutshell. Too many planes. Thats why. Its like having 100 different rifles for one army. The support for it is tremendous. The decommissioning of older planes was never done to allow for costs to be brought down. There are no like components to allow the support for this plane to be sustainable. The cost was out of control because the plane had no like parts for any other aircraft. If it costs too much to build, its probably to expensive to maintain. That is where the politicians went wrong. They could have developed alot of the components to be bolts on to the F15 and update it to stealth capability. The F15 is arguably the best fighter ever built but it didn't need to be replaced. The F22 is about 10 years ahead of its time. There are alot of planes that need to be scrapped in order to sustain the most advanced fighter ever built. Lockheed tried to tell the government that but the government didn't listen. The same was said about the F35 but still they didn't listen. These planes are expensive. Without the support they need to sustain them, its all for not. We can't keep building "Bic Planes" that will keep putting us into the hole. The F22 was supposed to replace the F15 but the F15 is cheaper because its cheaper to support. Lesson learned? Nope now we are stuck with a lame duck in the form of the F35 when it was supposed to replace the F16. Same problem the updated F16 is cheaper to support than the F35. Why did we even build them to begin with if we weren't gonna scrap the existing F15 and F16 and make them obsolete? Hmmm.....
Everything should be cancelled so just the king of the skies F15 can be built.
Yep exactly
Add that with the fact Democrats would rather watch us all burn.
Without supporting facts, I thought I read many years ago part of the F-22's high cost related to the development costs of its new radar system. When the "per unit" price was tacked onto each F22, it caused the F22's price to skyrocket. The new radar technology was used and further advanced for the F35, but all the initial/developmental costs were absorbed in the F22 program. This made the F35 cheaper. Again, not supported by facts, but my memory...
@@TonkaTruckF350 no offense, but that's only partially true. lockheed advertised to the goverment/DoD that there would be an 85% part swap-ability between both jets as a selling point for the F-35... this never happened. Only a handful of aircraft systems were even remotely relatable... so, no the F-22 did not shoulder the development cost of the F-35 beyond the radar absorbing paint, the F-35 is it's own animal. additionally, when DoD goes looking for a new toy, the manufacturer gives them the "A" model (also named the "-1"), then... just like a car salesman, the manufacturer shows the buyer all the upgraded features available... the buyer then bites onto this after the contract is signed causing an additional cost to the "item/program".
Im pretty sure F22s would still shoot down F35s 10 to 1. The plane is a beast and saying that US air superiority should hinge on the capabilities of the F35 is a recipe for disaster. Perhaps the US will use other tech to augment the fleet of F35s like air-superiority drones to fill the gap.
F15ex
@@passivehouseaustralia4406 The issue is that the F22 has greater stealth and kinematic performance. In my view the Marines wanting to add the VTOL requirement made the engineers make tradeoffs in the F35 design. We ended up with the best jump jet the world has ever seen with the F35B at the expense of the F35A and C being weaker than they had to. I think the F35 is compromised vs purpose built air superiority fighters but perhaps that was part of the plan since it got exported all over the world. The F22 has be blowing gen 4s out of the sky with ease for almost 2 decades now so thats nothing new. Perhaps a Gen5+ F22 replacement would work out fine where it could actually be mass produced and may not cost 50K an hour to fly.
@@jimduffield7822 it's not clear F22 has greater stealth. The fibremat tech is a major advancement and the ram on F22 was difficult to maintain. RCS is not the end all and be all of a LO aircraft, frequency response is also important. A number of generals etc have given public evidence to Congress that F-35 is at least as "stealthy" as f-22. It's certainly cheaper and easier to maintain, and having many allies using it is a big plus in terms of support etc.
@@passivehouseaustralia4406 The F35 can rival the stealth of the F22 because of newer materials that apparently become more stealth over time. The F22 is a superior stealth design and if built with the same materials would be significantly more stealth than the F35. The issue I see with the US force structure is that the F35 is not a pure air dominance platform. The F22 super cruises around faster than the F35s top speed at a higher altitude with more missiles and comparable stealth. What I would of preferred to see is the US fielding F-22C's where the newer tech of the F35 would be integrated onto the F22 platform. They say the F22 will be retired in the 2030s so Im pretty sure there is a new air dominance fighter being developed in secret, probably in the same manner as the B21 Raider. I also could not find a damn thing about how fights between F22s vs F35s would go in a pure air superiority mission and there is probably a reason why that info is not out there. To think that the air-force has not put 10 F22s vs 15F35s in air combat is naïve. The goal with the F35 is to procure as many airframes as possible and any data to make people doubt that decision is likely being suppressed.
@@jimduffield7822 Agree with everything you say. F-22 design was really for high altitude fighter to fighter air superiority. Absolutely no other airframe can out turn an F-22 at altitude. F-35 is actually supposed to be a quarterback, sucking up data and directing wingman drones etc in contested airspace. Australia cannot afford to lose planes in a protracted war and F-35 survivability in highly contested airspace was its main driver for purchase. Also with BAE we have pushed ahead with loyal wingman drones as we have been feeling the heat of china over the last 10 years and decided we needed that capability sooner rather than later. Australia also ordered the F-35 Launched NSM with a specific Radar seeker, which allows for F-35 to keep its LO and fire from range against maritime and land targets.
The bigger question is do manned fighters still have a place in modern warfare given drones may be the new "tip of the spear" in air warfare. If the answer is no, then F-22 is possibly the last of its kind.
I forgot how beautiful this jet is
crazy performance comes with a crazy price