Which West Kingdom Game is Best?!
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
- The West Kingdom Trilogy are 3 distinct games all set in a similar universe giving a sense of a larger world as you play any one of them. So, the real question on everyone’s mind of course must be, which west is best??
0:00 Intro
1:48 Architects Oveview
2:45 Paladins Overview
3:43 Viscounts Overview
4:53 Architects Pros and Cons
8:25 Paladins Pros and Cons
11:21 Viscounts Pros and Cons
15:10 Final Thoughts/Game Rankings
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I sometimes feel I'm in the minority when it comes to heavier games. Everyone (on the internet) seem to prefer them more than me. The reason I forego the heavier games is because I have to TEACH them, primarily to my young daughters, non-gamer wife and non-gamer sisters, nieces and nephews which constitutes my game group. When I start to see glassy eyes in the middle of a teach, I tend to quit in order to salvage the evening. With that said, Architects is a delight to teach. Just my opinion for those of you who are in the same boat and on the fence as to which to purchase.
Ah, the internet, where people claim all kinds of things that they don't really believe/know/feel/whatever. Where people love what you are "supposed to love", or where they come at what you are "supposed to love", just because you are "supposed to love" them. I know people who claim, online, to prefer Viscounts, but IRL, they only wanna play Architects when West Kingdom is mentioned.
I'm in a similar boat. That's also why I prefer Architects out of the 3. I mostly solo the other 2.
Totally agreed, there are a lot of game in BGG top 100 which are 4+ complexity and I stay away from them. Teaching such games is a pain unless the players can go through the rulebook themselves.
Late to the party but I'm in the same boat. I haven't found a heavy hand group yet, so I have to stick with lighter games.
I literally was looking for a side by side comparison of these games YESTERDAY. The simulation is real.
Same
Lol.
The same - ulation is real
Shem is a very talented visionary and I'm so jealous he does what he loves and gets paid!!
I've been wanting a video like this for some time and you were the first boardgame channel I follow to come through! Love it!
We just played Architects for the first time last weekend. We liked it!
I've still only played Architects and ADORE IT so this makes me more excited to finally try the other two.
Great video, very helpful! We own the first 2 and look forward to getting Viscounts. I love these games and I feel like all 3 are worthy of my collection. I appreciate your quick bites overview of each game...well done!!
Such an excellent overview/comparison! This was fun to watch.
Thanks for the awesome review! I look forward to you getting to play the expansions. We have one for each game coming out this year :)
Thanks for a great video! I have played Architects that I borrowed from a friend but not the others. I liked it so much that I went all-in last year when Viscounts was in Kickstarter. I got all 3 plus the expansion for Architects and Tomesaga. And metal coins! 😀 I became an instant fan of it all.
Then I moved and until very recently have been in a very temporary living situation. We are finally settled and all my games came so this video got me excited about playing these! Now I need to find the space to get one of these out to learn and play. (I mostly play solo especially now that I'm in a new state, and because of Covid I haven't found a new game group yet and hubby will only occasionally play easy games with me.)
I was just thinking I wanted this type of video!! Thanks !!!! :)
I’ve never played any of these, but you made me feel good about all of them.
Love this style of video. Would love more of these comparison style content:
- multiple games within a series (like this)
- games that have similar appeal (comparing dungeon crawlers, etc ... but not just top-n)
- comparison of series (northern series CS western series)
Yeah I have really enjoyed doing this I want to find more videos like this with direct comparisons to make
I mean to me the thing you mentioned as a nitpik on Architect's is what we find enjoyable about the game. The fact that you can't hammer away at a particuar (predetermined) strategy makes the game interesting & different each time. Yes, you have to react to what buildings you draw & what Apprentices are in play but that's not a problem for us. All games have been close & whomever wins the margin of victory is typically just a few points, so thumbs up for Architects in our house!
Thank you Mike for answering my question. Viscounts now ordered
I completely agree with your rankings! Great video- thanks, Mike! :)
Love this vid! To me, this is the 2nd best board game trilogy of all time (second only to Kemet/Cyclades/Inis). So impressed with this series and how consistent it is.
Viscounts is the only one I've played and it is quickly rising to the top of my list. Fantastic.
I really enjoy this whole series. I go back and forth on which is my favorite, though I tend to lean more towards Architects, but Paladins and Viscounts are very excellent games. I will be honest and say I am an absolute Garphill Games fan boy though. I own almost everything they have published.
I have the series and Tomesaga, love all three of them, and I completely agree with your analysis.
I'd rank them Paladins, Viscounts, and then Architects, but they all are great and all have their place based on how heavy of a game you want to play.
I'm so excited for the Architects and Paladins expansions and Collector's boxes they are going to have Kickstarters for this year. Definitely backing.
Incredible job on getting your thoughts out in an easy to understand way Mike!
As someone who owns all 3 games in the trilogy one of the things that impressed me is the development of a great solo game they all have. Actually, of the three, Architects has a simple, yet easy, solo system. They are developing an improved solo system in the last expansion for Architects later in 2021!! (The other 2 games have great and challenging solo systems already)!
I have Architects and really looove it because of the fast pace and also find it very easy to teach. It gets much better with the Artisans expansion.
I also just started playint Paladins and so far is my favorite, i find i can not rank them because they are so different. In other words one does not cover the itches of the other, but im enjoying Paladins more because is more deep and complex.
And.... Viscounts is on the way.
Saludos from Mexico.
Yeah artisans is mandatory. It’s not just a more stuff expansion, it’s a patch that smooths out some rough edges from the base game. The main fixes: the base game incentivized you to spend the first 85% (or so) of the game gathering resources into a massive pile, and then building all at once, turn after turn at the very end, so as not to lower your worker supply for no reason.
The expansion incentivizes you to build early and often, which really smooths out the game arc.
Also the base had a problem with money not being useful end game. The expansion finds a way to make money very useful lategame.
Because of these, I would teach even a first time player with the expansion included.
Hola, acabo de adquirir el Architects; el primero que compro de la serie, me llamo más atención por su temática vs Paladins. Ahora leyendo esto no sé si debo arrepentirme (lo acabo de pedir y aún no lo recibo) y comprar mejor el Paladins o Viscounts. Bueno, me surgió una duda... Comentas que la expansión ARTISANS es un MUST HAVE, pero solo veo una que se llama TOMESAGA ¿es lo mismo? Si no... ¿Que opinas de esta? Y ¿Dónde conseguiste la otra? Saludos
I too love this series. Just picked up Viscounts today so now I have all 3. Between Paladins and Architects, gosh.... Paladins by a smidge, maybe? Recently I’ve been playing Architects solo mode and it’s really good; hard, but good. Thanks for the great content. I really enjoy your work.
Thanks for checking out the video! I gotta play Architects solo again it's been too long
The explanation parts of the video were really well done, makes me wish you guys did some how to play videos too!
I second this
Wow, my first time watching a video from your channel. Enjoyed this a lot. Maybe it’s because your specific style of articulation and body language reminds me of self. :) anyways, thank you for the breakdown. Only have one so far and now and hungry for my next West Kingdom entry.
Awesome video! Thank you and well done.
glad you enjoyed!
My wife and absolutely love all these games. We group Raiders of the North Sea in with them :) for me it is:
#1. Raiders (with expansions). The depth of options and high turn Angst. I just love that game.
#2. Viscounts (would overtake Raiders if it had a bit more player interaction)
#3 Architects
#4 Paladins (which i rank a 9)
For my wife i think it is #1 Raiders, #2 Viscounts, #3 Paladins #4 Architects
The games look like a lot of fun, thanks for reviewing them.
happy to do it!
I love Paladins, just got Viscounts and super excited to play it. I can't wait to buy Tomesaga to play them as co-ops.
Viscounts for me as well! Then Paladins then Architects however saying that I'd happy to play all three anywhere anytime (within reason ofc). Great review and a great choice!
I only played Architects, but to me it's an amazing worker placement game where you get to have some interesting interaction with other players, instead of only playing solitaire most of the time. I did hear good things about Viscounts and perhaps I'll buy it someday to try it.
Yeah it's cool that the spaces aren't blocked but you find interaction in the race up the cathedral and with snatching other players' pieces.
Fantastic video. My son has Paladins on his wish list, but doesn't have anything else in the trilogy.
Got same feeling like u with Architects , i always feel i need more time. Never lost a games of Paladins , didn't really enjoy this one in the biggining but right now i love it. While i never turn down a game of Arquitects , i will not always feel ready for the challange of sorting out Paladins puzzle. I need to get Viscouns soon , i'm preety sure i will enjoy this one. Just love this games !
I was wondering if I should buy these. Thank you guys!
Buy! These get a special place on my shelf.
I agree Architects is my last fav’ but on paper I LOVE what’s it’s doing! The theme the artwork, I need more plays of Viscounts
Great video. Deciding which of these to pick up has been difficult. The one think I do know, I love Claim and Claim 2, and the Mico’s art is gorgeous.
For me Architects is by far the best. Like you said the smooth turns really works for the game. the other two I have less favorable views of. I'm fine with Viscounts but there's too many rules and doesn't flow like Architects does. Paladins I don't know if I want to play again. It has the same rules overload as Viscounts but it lets better players play more, as in if you know the game and get good at it you get more actions and do more actions in a round, this leaves the other players sitting there doing nothing while the other player gets to finish a round. That doesn't work in my group where there is constantly a rotation of differently skilled players and having a new player to a game just sit there because they don't know as much about the game as the rest of us doesn't work.
I am just a huge fan boy of this series, all 3 games made my top 25 games. Architects being my favorite, followed by Viscounts then Paladins
Same for us
Nice and short great video
Thanks! 👍
Can i ask a nerdy production question? Your shots showing off the games look really nice. What techniques/equipment are you using to get those butter-smooth shots?
I own and love both Architects (with Artisans expansion) and Viscounts. Viscounts is my current favourite, but the lack of clarity in the rulebook has dropped it a little. I am usually quite good at learning a game and not making mistakes, but almost every game for 5 games in a row I discovered a rule I was missing or reading wrong... For some reason Paladins still doesn't appeal to me. The only reason I might end up getting it is to complete the trilogy when Tomesaga comes out! Thanks for your thoughts on these games Mike :) great work as always
Much appreciated glad you enjoyed the video and right on! maybe paladins with Tomesaga will bump it up. Really excited to try all the co-op modes of the game curious how I'll like those and if any will be preferable co-op. We shall see!
Very well done, Mike and your assessment is usually how it goes for this trilogy..♥️
Viscount feels like it candyland. Play a card to move. Top is merchant and building and bottom is workers and manuscript. Count the icons do that action. Then buy a card and check collide. You know candyland. Play a card move in one direction.
I completely agree with this video. I only play solo and I initially hated Paladins. I gave it another shot and it is almost my favorite now. It takes up a lot of space for a solo game.
Viscounts messed with me the most. Had a ton of AP in that game, and found that on many turns I had few good choices. Found Paladins more enjoyable, and Architects was the first I played, and my favorite.
I agree with your take on Paladins (I own that and Viscounts). It requires you to specialize, but actions are really expensive; diversifying isn't as powerful because moving all three tracks gives you less power for actions and on top of that nets you fewer points (the higher point values are difficult to reach). I didn't get a handle on this one yet. I liked it, but I don't do well on it.
I've started with this hobbie not a long time ago and I read really good opinions about Architects and Paladins (Viscounts wasn't yet on the market) and both of them atractted me a lot; they are so visual, have a good number of players and have a solo mode. Finally, I opted for Architects because I heard that Paladins was more like a multiplayer solitaire and it was the heaviest of the two and I was looking for a medium game to start my collection. What I really like about Architects is that, being a worker placement, it has also interaction with the mechanics of kidnapping and the black market.
Welcome to the hobby! Hope board games have been treating you well. And I really like the player interaction in architects. Love rounding up other players workers and getting tons of cash for dropping them off in the prison.
Great review of these games. I am a huge fan of all three of the games. Architects is the easiest to teach, but my favorite to play is Paladins. Like you, I agree that the amount that I like them is negligible. They are all fantastic games.
I absolutely LOVE the west kingdom trilogy. I agree with your decision, I think paladins and viscounts are just about even for me. I have the west kingdom tomesaga but I have not been able to play with people! I am dying to try it out. Have you played it yet? It would be perfect for you and Nick
I have all 3 of those. And also would rank them the same way. Architects is a lighter game than other two, but it must be played at least with 3, preferably with 4 players ( we want to try that out, as only played 2 player and 2 player with AI (whcih was already soo interesting with the AI).. But yeah, great video and couldn't agree more. Want to try Tome saga now. And waiting for next trilogy from Garphill games.
Enjoyed Architects the first few plays because it was different, but began to not enjoy as we only play at two. Played our first game of Paladins the other day and really enjoyed it. Works much better at lower count. Am looking forward to this one more going forward. Just need to learn Viscounts now.
Agreed Paladins and Viscounts work much better at lower player counts we hope you enjoy Viscounts! We'll be doing a play through video in January featuring the 2 expansions coming out for it so be sure to check it out!
@@TheBrothersMurph Will do. I'm definitely backing these, and looking forward to the next Trilogy later in the year.
I've only played Paladins, but I like it. I would be willing to try the others, but likely would not buy them since I have Paladins in my collection already.
great video! which one it's best for solo? greetings from Chile!
cool, I have the same ranking.. :) but I haven't played the architects expansion so far.. ^^
Wow I never realized how small these boxes are! That at least for me is a good selling point on why to get this game
It’s awesome and they pack the boxes full but love the small size
@@TheBrothersMurph I love it when a publisher uses their whole box to pack a game in! Before I found you guys, which I discovered you brothers just last year, I have never heard of the west kingdom series (I only have been a part of this hobby for 2 years) but with more and more videos of you brothers talking about this trilogy makes me think I should try it out at TTS and maybe get one two or all three games.
Played both Paladins and Viscounts quite a number of times and agree with your views. The more I play Viscounts though I have the feeling that the castle strategy is stronger than other strategies. Almost always the winner is the person who has the most people in the castle. It offers points but also a lot of resources. Thoughts?
Love all 3. I really can’t decide which I prefer between Viscounts and Paladins, they are very close to me too. Like you they just slightly edge out Architects.
Hard to tell without having played them, but I think I'd like Paladins or Viscounts best.
I really wanna try them.
I have all 3 and have only played paladins. But man do I love that game. Probably why I haven’t opened the other 2 yet. Just enjoying paladins a lot.
I think Architects is my favorite, but it's not by much. Paladins feels a bit same-y when played often imo. My judgement on Viscounts is not really final, I've only played it twice - Once solo and once 3p. I think I need another play, before I can really make a proper ranking on that one.
As of now:
Architects: 9/10
Viscounts: 8.5/10
Paladins: 8/10
I agree with this. Architects is my favourite - it plays out much faster than the other two in my experience. Paladins and Viscounts seem to induce a lot more AP.
+1 to Architects being my favourite. Turns are so fast, the game flies around the table and has a great flow to it.
Awesome review of the 3 games, I’m also finding Viscounts to be super fun and edging out Architects, although I still really love Architects. Haven’t tried Paladins yet since as you said it just seemed a bit too heavy for my tastes and I’d probably rather play Orleans.
Respect respect. If ever you do give Paladins let us know what you think!
It being too heavy kept me at bay as well, but once you're into it it's not that heavy at all. It's like many games that have LOTS of options and roads of victory requiring you to work hard on your middle and end game. BUT the rules are not that hard, downtime is low, and the more you play the more it grows on you.
I own both Orleans and Paladins, and while I enjoy both, for sure Paladins has the longer longevity.
Ok, would definitely want to try it sometime!
I'm obsessed with Paladins. Then, Vicounts. Architects, last place, but still fun. Just got the Tomesaga.
lol " obsesssed" i feel the same about this game, love it like a hobby in my hobby ^^
I own Architects and Paladins and I have to admit Architects is a bit more fun to play compared to Paladins and also being more accessible to newbies.
I just picked up these games and really enjoy them. And I just ordered Tomesaga. Any chance you guys will do a video on Tomesaga and how it changes the games?
We are currently setting up a super sized stream where we play through the tomesaga all in a sitting so that for sure and depending on stuff we may do a video as well about our thoughts on the Tomesaga
@@TheBrothersMurph Nice!
Thanks for this video! I really, really love the art for The West and the North series but the theme for the North appeals far more. I'd love to see a video comparing the two series and perhaps ranking all six games (with or without their respective expansions).
That'd be fun to do! We haven't actually played all the North Sea trilogy (Don't tell Shem Phillips) but we'd like to
@@TheBrothersMurph Cheers Bros! Well get on it mates, nothing but time in Quarantineland. ;)
Will you guys be doing a similar video for their North Sea games?
We may someday. To this point we’ve only ever played raiders of the North Sea but if we come across the others we’d love to to a comparison video
Have you tried Tomesaga with all 3?
My niece is overwhelmed by some of the bigger dungeon crawlers. We have been playing Mice & Mystics and Stuffed Fables. I was thinking of Wander Cult of Barnacle Bay. Any other suggessions of any she may like? She enjoys ones with a good story.
Not exactly a dungeon crawler but something like Near and Far could be really fun. we liked that one a lot and you go through a campaign of about 10 games. With the amber mines expansion there is more to explore and you can play cooperative as well which we did and quite enjoyed.
Paladins is a seriously awesome game. Totally my favorite.
If anyone is curious Nick's ranking is:
1. Architects
2. Viscounts
3. Paladins.
But I LOOOOOOVE all of them!
Didn't he just rank Paladins ahead of Architects in the top 100 series? Or am I trippin
@@joelasmussen5787 I did indeed, but I've played them since, and I think that was just a feeling of the day thing. As of right now I like Architects more. But hey, tomorrow they may flip flop again! Who knows!
Have only played Viscounts and Paladins once each. So I'll put Architects as my number one for now. But I do agree with the nitpick. It also has been almost too quick tha last couple times ive played it. Paladins was too much for me(at least in my first play). Interested in playing Viscounts again, now that I have a lot more experience with deck-builders.(dominion,el dorado,and clank legacy). I think it could definitely top the list
I haven't finished the video yet. Which one is best for solo? I was waiting for Viscounts to have more community exposure before asking
I think Paladins, then Viscounts, then Architects.
What, no mention of the Tomesaga? I love all three btw.
We haven't had a chance to play it yet so didn't want to be talking about something I hadn't tried but the level of excitement for it is quite high
@@TheBrothersMurph makes sense. Hope you guys try out both the campaign and the individual co-op modes. Would love to hear your opinions on it all 😎
Which one to start with?
My mom and sister have gotten into board games through me and they lean towards worker placement (lords of waterdeep, parks, architects are some of their favs). But when we play paladins my sister is like my head hurts from everything I’m tracking. Then I’m like “you think your head hurts? I have to keep track of my stuff and all of your cards too!” Because when we play I’m always aware of everyone’s cards so I’m always reminding them you get a white dude and a green dude from both your gatekeeper cards when you fortify, you get two provisions when you attack……….they already say I’m a critical thinker and I can open more doors in my head to see things. So jokingly I always say. “Open some of your doors so I can close mine because I’m getting a headache 🤕 “. For real though the west kingdom is my first and only ‘trilogy’ games I’ve played. I want to get the North Sea games and I’m very excited for his new trilogy of dice games coming.
Oh dang that's some heavy mental lifting for sure! Very cool that y'all can all play Paladins together though even if it's a big time brain burn! and on the note of the new trilogy, we have a playthrough of Wayfarers of the South Tigris dropping on Monday so be sure to check that one out!
was so funny when i saw these games i wanted paladins but purchased architects instead . so not i have 2 of them lol . we like Paladins.
I absolutely love Paladins. It has an amazing Solo AI as well.
Yeah that AI is no joke!
Architects is the best of the three games in my opinion. It’s not the most innovative or the most complex or the challenging of the three, but for me it’s the most fun. Not too heavy. Not too crunchy. It’s just right for my personal gaming needs - family gaming with a bit of challenge.
Architects is great (as is Raiders, Explorers, and Circadians), but Paladins and Viscounts have a depth and complexity level that make them extremely re-playable. I cannot pick a favorite between those two. Both of them are fantastic and probably in my top five games of all time. I cannot wait to see what Shem and Sam produce next, as their games just keep getting better and better.
Same can't wait for what comes next from them.
Are you going to do them back-to-back-to-back with Tomesaga?
We may be brewing up a Tomesaga live stream so definitely stay tuned on that!
@@TheBrothersMurph Awesome. I've only done it one time, but had a blast with it.
Dis you try crown of emara?? Like it better than viscounts .
Viscount is great btw i’m not bashing 😅
You should put there raiders of Scythia
Big fan of Architects and Paladins (haven't tried Viscounts). I like Paladins the most, and then at two players I like Raiders (not West Kingdom, but close enough) better than Architects, but at higher player counts I like Architects better than Raiders.
Paladins for me is the first
Noice
Paladins is really good if you want to challenge yourself
Truth
which is best for two players?
Probably Paladins as it's mostly a multiplayer solitaire game. Paladins at 4 can become long.
Would you all rank Architects as the easiest of the three to learn?
Absolutely the easiest to get into
@@TheBrothersMurph thanks for the info! Keep up the good work!
Architects shines at 5 players. I love the game but won’t play it at under 4 players.
This is coming from someone who’s comfort zone is 2 and 3 player games.
If your first play of Architects is at 3 or less you’re doing the game a great disservice IMO.
THIS! Architects is getting better and better the more players you are, we play always with four or five players
The reason I've never bought any West Kingdom games is because I didn't know the answer to this question of which one is the best :3
Luckily we know all and now too do you
I really enjoy architects and viscounts. Paladins was a miss for me.
Would you rather play Paladins or Orléans?
I think my wife and I would enjoy all of these games. We just haven’t been able to pull the trigger because we just really dislike the art. I suppose that’s the nature of what is probably the most subjective part of gaming. :(
All the nit picks are with the puzzle aspect of the game lol.
I love Paladins
haven't played architects because I feel it won't fit my tastes, but paladins is absolutely the best if you want an excellent 2 player games.
viscounts I've only played once at 2 players and honestly don't feel the urge to play it again. it's quite boring: you go around getting resources and once you have them you go take the VP action. for the entire game, without the feeling of growth ever.
will have to play it with more players to judge but first impressions: not good
There are at least 3 different routes for getting VPs in Viscounts (not to mention the deeds you get from the corruption/virtue track), so it really is more like "the VP actionS", if anything ;)
@@Calistake047 what I meant is you do the one you have resources for
I actually really enjoy Architects at two players! I didn't think it would work as well at that player count but it is tense and super fun.
They respectively are for 4 players, 2 players, 3 players.
2nd one, likely my wife won't like the theme. Viscounts.. Seems.. What's the term (I'm not a native English speaker).. Fiddly? Center of the board seems crowded.
That's fair. There's a bit of fiddly-ness going on there with the castle it can indeed get crowded at times.
@@TheBrothersMurph yup. And I'm not saying uts bad, I'm new so my experience is limited (reason why I'm watching a lot of videos). Looking to buy some games for the family. I do like how the series presents you with different games and overall looks
;)
This is great but the real question is when are you going to talk about the game that has your face on the cover (Silver).
Listen once the lawsuit has been settled I have my video ready to go. (There is no lawsuit)
@@TheBrothersMurph Hahaha! You should be getting royalties!
Architects the favorite so far, but trying Viscounts for the first time next week, so we'll see. Paladins is great, but sometimes it just feels like work. So limiting unless you're really wheeling and dealing. The pace and variability of Architects make it more of a purely fun enterprise.
I am happy that architect is last. I just don't get what people like about this game. I played the base game only. I forced myself to play it again and again ... super boring, sometimes you just take one ressource for 4 turns in a row ... how boring is that ... I just don't get what people like about this game. Maybe its better with expansion, but I dont buy expansion for games I dont like. On the other hand as a light game raiders of the north sea, also from Shem Phillips, is awesome. My prefered of those 3 is paladins. (I really like heavy games)
Nice yeah if you tend heavier Architects might be the odd game out. I don't mind taking multiple turns in a row to get the same resource since the turns are so fast. If everyone is playing quick it all works out for me but that's just me.