What's interesting is that when I started doing montante work (just with PVC pipes or big sticks -- don't have any proper trainers worth the name yet), I also found that the rules (or at least the interpretations I knew back then, mostly Emil Andersson's ancient stuff before the recent updates) formed an excellent basis for the "common fencing" curriculum of the skills needed before going into proper Liechtenauer stuff. It's so much easier to find out and correct mistakes in my own body mechanics (and, to some extent, my practice partners') when there's such a huge object highlighting them with much more clarity than an ordinary feder or longsword waster.
Every time I see someone give a comprehensive breakdown or demo of these things, especially Danelli's, I suddenly feel the urge to drop several hundred dollars on a sword no one else in my club owns. Send help. :l
All of the "Stuff" you cover is one of the reasons why I treat Marozzo as my "main" two-handed sword text, despite Figgy (I'm not trying to spell it, because I never can...) being the one I actually devote more time to. Marozzo seems to treat it as, "yeah, you know how to fence with a sidesword, so apply all that to this huge thing and here's a handful of techniques to help you understand it." Figgy's Material almost seems to me like a training manual for Guards or Mercenaries for whom the montante might be their first "real" trained weapon.
Tom Farmer Figgy? Lol. I’m gonna be using that. Doggy’s text on Greatsword wasn’t exactly... new. It was a rebranding of an almost antiquated form of combat to be used to teach the prince of Spain at the time, and as a sort of proof of Loyalty.
1:49 Jigen-ryu kenjutsu where their main philosophy is "attack until you or your opponent dies". Their repertoire consisting of overhead strikes with a nodachi whilst letting forth a blood curdling screech as you rush into the enemy.
Not only you explain this sword functions well you also explain why the kilt was functional too. It make sense why it was equipped for faster leg movements and stances. And I found my new favorite channel.
Always awesome to see these swords. It does make sense with the longsword thing, and explains why longsword fencers from certain guilds were in much demand as mercenaries wielding these things. Due to the size, weight and grip length I believe there would be a fair amount of crossover with quarterstaff techniques also, particularly for montante vs montante fights as quarterstaff treatises tend to give more focus to opposing like vs like.
I agree with that. I would like to add that, from what I've seen, a greatsword requires significantly more skill to use effectively than any other sword, up to and including the longsword. Both its weight and length present some challenges, especially to one's speed. From the sparring videos I've seen here on youtube, greatsword users seem to be at a disadvantage to other sword users - the reach and leverage advantages of a greatsword don't seem enough to compensate for its slow speed, both in attack and especially in defense. Few of those videos allow the potential of a greatsword to shine through, most just hint at it. This seems to be caused by: - greatsword wielders sparring more slowly in order to not injure their partners - the fact that it's objectively slower than all other swords - lack of enough training (mainly solo drills) My conclusion is that before being allowed to spar, a greatsword fencer requires a lot of training, more so than with any other sword, both for developing the ability to comfortably wield the sword, and in order to achieve a large degree of mastery over the various techniques (guards, cuts etc.), regardless if those techniques are proper greatsword ones or are borrowed from the longsword.
You could use quarterstaff to build up to the two handed sword too. My 6' oak staff lies about halfway between typical longsword and spadone weights, and would be about the correct length. Stick a guard on there and you have a zweihander singlestick (or doublestick, as it were)
Also in sparring greatsword users have to practice a lot more control, because as you may know these things can seriously damage one's health in a simple hit even through fencing masks which can be a reason for their slowness in speed.
High Master Johannes Lichtenauer Yes, you are correct. I've seen videos where a greatsword user moved very fast (I'd say frighteningly fast, with such a weapon) and yet didn't hurt his opponents - an impressive display of skill (though I have to mention he was wielding a nylon simulator, not a steel blunt). In most sparring videos people move relatively slow and careful, to not injure their partners.
TheFilthyCasual Even the nylon simulator would still cause significant damage. It is still a 6 foot, solid, 7 pound, object being swung around. It would be worse than getting hit with a baseball bat. It would take a lot of practice to be able to swing quickly in a spar without hurting your opponent. but yes, I imagine the greatsword may well have been one of the fastest martial weapons simply because the long handle affords so much leverage and control.
... Sir Moustache? That sword is as big as you are, down to the inch! Still, I'm utterly amazed at the breadth of stuff you can find on UA-cam these days.
You can't just stand there with that beautiful greatsword, talking about wielding it like a rapier, without showing off a few moves... I want a demo please! :+) You can film it outside so you don't destroy your training room and the kilt is optional. 😁
I would really love it if you would make a video about how to begin training and conditioning with the montante. theres plenty of videos from others demonstrating the simple rules, but theres nothing on how to start with the basics and getting your body strong enough to use the weapon properly. are the any repetitious training drills that are beginner friendly?
DaRedSovietGyro for myself, running these drills at one quarter to half speed has done a lot for me. It uses much of the same muscle groups as other forms, but the difficult part is keeping the blade on line when following through, which really comes down to muscle memory more than anything.
Find the HEMA Strong page on Facebok, they actually have NASM (National Academy of Sports Medicine) standards you should meet to be in basic fitness enough to fight effectively without hurting yourself. After you have met their standards, , and improved your hip opening flexibility (butterfly stretches) and hamstring utility/flexibility (slow, holding lunges with perfect form), you can then work on power generation in such a manner that will keep you spry till your grave, even while old. --An Avid Montantero currently studying to be a Corrective Exercise Specialist
Where can I obtain a sword like this one but not a trainer, a real battle ready version? I'm not impressed with the Cold Steel offering and already have several nice Claymores, but not one of these, and they look amazing and graceful (in the right hands) The Hanwei Lowlander might be OK but does not have the "pike breaker/hand protector" forward blade projections
Stefano Dogg I’d advise against the Hanwei Lowlander. Many reports of things shaking loose and falling apart. I had one friend whose blade helicoptered right out of the hilt (not a happy ending to that story. Thankfully the dog died quickly.) Otherwise, the Market doesn’t have many worthy offerings. And the Cold Steel impression is an overly short mockery, a disrespect to the tradition.
Just a question out of interest without any significant knowledge about Hema or any other kind of historical swordsmanship; Is there actually some sort of requirement in terms of one's own body height to effectively use a blade as large as a Flamberge, Montante or the likes? Edit: Just for a reference, I am about 171 centimeters from head to toe, so for example, would I be able to learn and use a greatsword such as a Zweihander?
Greybox48 171 centimeters- that correct? That’ll put you just about five feet. Most examples of greatsword- Montante, spadone, zwiehander- measure at least six foot.You could feasibly make a big longsword with the greatsword dimensions, but then you lose so much potential... Yes, you can do it. But you will have a very difficult time. The only thing that limits you is your training, preference, and determination. Decide to do it, and it shall be done.
@@grayblackhelm6468 Actually, 171cm is 5ft 7 inches, or about average height for an adult European male in the middle-ages. Also, greatswords varied in length between 150 cm and 180 cm (5ft to 6ft) so there are historical examples suitable for someone that tall. www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html#.XH0BpYj7S00
+LondonLongsword Why do you think Montantes never were popular in the battlefield? It's a serious question, I mean, it's my favourite hystorical weapon but for some reason it never had that much popularity in the battlefield. I read somewhere that Greatsword users in armies comprised only around 2% of the whole infantry, and if we look at the timespan they were used it's tiny compared to the lifespan of other weapons (it started to be used around the reinassance and after 100years or so it's popularity dropped significantly to the point of exctinction). I always though it was probably because to their cost and maintenance, after all you need more steel to make one of those than to make, lets say, a bill; not to mention that since it's a more delicate weapon it required more care. But thats just my assumption, don't know if you would be kind enough to share your take on this.
It's neither a sword or a polearm but a bastardisation of both. A regular sword does the job of a sword better, a regular polearm does the job of a polearm better. Greatswords were sparingly used for a reason, there were simply better tools available for the various jobs at hand. I love them too though, very cool.
I agree that cost had something to do with it, not only because of the sword themselves, but because of the armour. Wielding greatswords basically required you to use full plate armour, because you don't have an off hand with which to use a shield, which is way cheaper. Being a two-handed-swordsman was a pretty expensive thing on itself; I can imagine arming thousands of men with shields and longswords or polearms was cheaper than arming the same amount with greatswords and full plate. There were probably other reasons, of course.
A spear is simply better and cheaper as a thrusting long weapon, and cutting weapons became really unpopular in general the more armor developed. Though that’s not to say a good thrust from a greatsword through a gap in your armor wouldn’t fucking wreck you
Large swords have always been made, even as far back as 1,100. But there was a status to such a blade. It is more about the appearance than the weapon, usually. And when a greatsword is used in combat, it’s almost always a body or a town guard, rather than military. As others have said, spear and polearms thrust and hack better, and longswords simply sword better.
Since your comment is 4 years old you've probably found an answer allready, but just in case: Armor and Formations. These blades where largely ineffective against armor, and a hinderance to surrounding allies you are supposed to fight alongside with. For other places, it was rather inconvenient due to it's size. It's use was therefore limited to mercenaries protecting/escorting traders or patroling certain places of importance.
You can squeeze between gaps with this. However, you will NEVER pierce armor with a sword, regardless of the weapons size, shape, sharpness, or the building material.
But, if Figueiredo wanted to use the montante in that way dont you think he could go on detail about it? He did wrote a 300 page manual on sword fencing before, so it is not like he wasn't able. I still would love to see people assuming the simplicity in the montante material without wanting to turn it in something else or thinking of it as something lesser :(
Frederico Martins I only comment on what he said, I don't want to assume what he meant. Goliath gives a more Mr L approach to it. things are different, that's all.:)
Taking the risk of commenting on a dead thread let me point out that Figueyredo's book on destreza was when he was a phlipine general, verdadera destreza de las armas being a new school of fighting linked to the spanish rule of europe. After the portuguese restoration of independence Figueyredo felt the need to write about a traditional, even if outdated by the time, martial school to reassert his loyalty. Figueyredo's montante rules were presented as a masterclass to the portuguese prince, not as a manual. LondonLongsword is right to read the rules as broad strokes condensated for clarity but open to development.
"The really freaking awesome sword" should be the technical term when referring to such swords.
A trick : watch series on kaldroStream. I've been using it for watching lots of of movies these days.
@Louie River Yup, have been using KaldroStream for months myself =)
The mustache made me subscribe, and I believed everything you said instantly. Becuase of the Mustache.
This comment speaks to me on a spiritual level.
If not the mustache, the cat skirt. If that's not enough, then the freaking huge sword.
The montante and zweihandr are basically what would happen if someone looked at a fedderschvert and said "...but what if...bigger?"
Well, kind of the opposite. Greatswords came long before the Federschwert which is an exclusive practice weapon.
This is the weirdest dark souls tutorial ever
Praise the sun \[T]/
\[T]/
\[T]/
\[T]/
\[T]/
What's interesting is that when I started doing montante work (just with PVC pipes or big sticks -- don't have any proper trainers worth the name yet), I also found that the rules (or at least the interpretations I knew back then, mostly Emil Andersson's ancient stuff before the recent updates) formed an excellent basis for the "common fencing" curriculum of the skills needed before going into proper Liechtenauer stuff. It's so much easier to find out and correct mistakes in my own body mechanics (and, to some extent, my practice partners') when there's such a huge object highlighting them with much more clarity than an ordinary feder or longsword waster.
This was a really great video. Easy to understand, straight to the point, well presented. Good job!!
Every time I see someone give a comprehensive breakdown or demo of these things, especially Danelli's, I suddenly feel the urge to drop several hundred dollars on a sword no one else in my club owns. Send help. :l
Marco's work is worth it. I have a custom sharp he made for a student of mine recently and...very...very nice. it will be reviewed soon.:)
Nope.
Just buy a dozen or so. You need to enjoy life mate, there's no tomorrow.
You could still do montante vs longsword.... or even... montante vs multiple longswords!
have one and love it
TheMasturCheef there's a Spanish vid here with montante vs. 6 rapiers
All of the "Stuff" you cover is one of the reasons why I treat Marozzo as my "main" two-handed sword text, despite Figgy (I'm not trying to spell it, because I never can...) being the one I actually devote more time to. Marozzo seems to treat it as, "yeah, you know how to fence with a sidesword, so apply all that to this huge thing and here's a handful of techniques to help you understand it." Figgy's Material almost seems to me like a training manual for Guards or Mercenaries for whom the montante might be their first "real" trained weapon.
Tom Farmer Figgy? Lol. I’m gonna be using that.
Doggy’s text on Greatsword wasn’t exactly... new. It was a rebranding of an almost antiquated form of combat to be used to teach the prince of Spain at the time, and as a sort of proof of Loyalty.
1:49
Jigen-ryu kenjutsu where their main philosophy is "attack until you or your opponent dies". Their repertoire consisting of overhead strikes with a nodachi whilst letting forth a blood curdling screech as you rush into the enemy.
Not only you explain this sword functions well you also explain why the kilt was functional too. It make sense why it was equipped for faster leg movements and stances. And I found my new favorite channel.
Always awesome to see these swords. It does make sense with the longsword thing, and explains why longsword fencers from certain guilds were in much demand as mercenaries wielding these things. Due to the size, weight and grip length I believe there would be a fair amount of crossover with quarterstaff techniques also, particularly for montante vs montante fights as quarterstaff treatises tend to give more focus to opposing like vs like.
First of all-a most magnificent kitty kilt!
thank you :)
I agree with that.
I would like to add that, from what I've seen, a greatsword requires significantly more skill to use effectively than any other sword, up to and including the longsword.
Both its weight and length present some challenges, especially to one's speed.
From the sparring videos I've seen here on youtube, greatsword users seem to be at a disadvantage to other sword users - the reach and leverage advantages of a greatsword don't seem enough to compensate for its slow speed, both in attack and especially in defense.
Few of those videos allow the potential of a greatsword to shine through, most just hint at it.
This seems to be caused by:
- greatsword wielders sparring more slowly in order to not injure their partners
- the fact that it's objectively slower than all other swords
- lack of enough training (mainly solo drills)
My conclusion is that before being allowed to spar, a greatsword fencer requires a lot of training, more so than with any other sword, both for developing the ability to comfortably wield the sword, and in order to achieve a large degree of mastery over the various techniques (guards, cuts etc.), regardless if those techniques are proper greatsword ones or are borrowed from the longsword.
You could use quarterstaff to build up to the two handed sword too. My 6' oak staff lies about halfway between typical longsword and spadone weights, and would be about the correct length. Stick a guard on there and you have a zweihander singlestick (or doublestick, as it were)
+lancer D
Yup, quarterstaff is the go-to training weapon for polearms - and a greatsword is quite similar to a polearm.
Also in sparring greatsword users have to practice a lot more control, because as you may know these things can seriously damage one's health in a simple hit even through fencing masks which can be a reason for their slowness in speed.
High Master Johannes Lichtenauer
Yes, you are correct.
I've seen videos where a greatsword user moved very fast (I'd say frighteningly fast, with such a weapon) and yet didn't hurt his opponents - an impressive display of skill (though I have to mention he was wielding a nylon simulator, not a steel blunt).
In most sparring videos people move relatively slow and careful, to not injure their partners.
TheFilthyCasual Even the nylon simulator would still cause significant damage. It is still a 6 foot, solid, 7 pound, object being swung around. It would be worse than getting hit with a baseball bat.
It would take a lot of practice to be able to swing quickly in a spar without hurting your opponent.
but yes, I imagine the greatsword may well have been one of the fastest martial weapons simply because the long handle affords so much leverage and control.
That dummy to your left in the intro looks like some kinky S&M suit. It goes perfect with your mustache.
Great video! My favourite sword as well! Subscribed! Great kilt!!
I havent even finished this video and already like this guy.
That majestic moustache... is why you are the best
... Sir Moustache? That sword is as big as you are, down to the inch!
Still, I'm utterly amazed at the breadth of stuff you can find on UA-cam these days.
You can't just stand there with that beautiful greatsword, talking about wielding it like a rapier, without showing off a few moves... I want a demo please! :+) You can film it outside so you don't destroy your training room and the kilt is optional. 😁
The Kitten Kilt. Subscribing right now. Came over from Shadiversity.
Cool sword. Even cooler moustache.
Very interesting. I studied a montante a little while that with a members of "De taille et d'Estoc" the AMHE (HEMA) of Dijon .
Ahem, "wUt rings U got BiaCh", that will be all.
And it's also a polearm which can't be (well it can be, but you'll be left with your hand bleeding) grabbed. Amazing!
... Look up "half-swording."
Specifically, look up Skallagrim's video on Half-Swording.
Violet Fox Your hand won’t bleed if you 1. Don’t let the blade move under your hand too much or
2. Wear gauntlets.
How often do you accidentally poke holes in your wall with that thing?
I would really love it if you would make a video about how to begin training and conditioning with the montante. theres plenty of videos from others demonstrating the simple rules, but theres nothing on how to start with the basics and getting your body strong enough to use the weapon properly. are the any repetitious training drills that are beginner friendly?
DaRedSovietGyro for myself, running these drills at one quarter to half speed has done a lot for me. It uses much of the same muscle groups as other forms, but the difficult part is keeping the blade on line when following through, which really comes down to muscle memory more than anything.
Find the HEMA Strong page on Facebok, they actually have NASM (National Academy of Sports Medicine) standards you should meet to be in basic fitness enough to fight effectively without hurting yourself. After you have met their standards, , and improved your hip opening flexibility (butterfly stretches) and hamstring utility/flexibility (slow, holding lunges with perfect form), you can then work on power generation in such a manner that will keep you spry till your grave, even while old.
--An Avid Montantero currently studying to be a Corrective Exercise Specialist
This is Giant Dad everybody. This is who we are looking for.
I'm a Filipino but I wanna try that same with katana and our kampilan
love this channel
Love the tactical kilt bruv! Alba gu brath, Erin go bragh!
brenden stubblefield “Erin go bragh”? Is that not “go fuck yourself”?
Perhaps, rather, I should be asking for a full translation.
Directly applying this to mordhau lol great vid!
Where can I obtain a sword like this one but not a trainer, a real battle ready version? I'm not impressed with the Cold Steel offering and already have several nice Claymores, but not one of these, and they look amazing and graceful (in the right hands) The Hanwei Lowlander might be OK but does not have the "pike breaker/hand protector" forward blade projections
Stefano Dogg I’d advise against the Hanwei Lowlander. Many reports of things shaking loose and falling apart. I had one friend whose blade helicoptered right out of the hilt (not a happy ending to that story. Thankfully the dog died quickly.)
Otherwise, the Market doesn’t have many worthy offerings. And the Cold Steel impression is an overly short mockery, a disrespect to the tradition.
Just email the maker of his trainer, the man does custom sharps as well, I think!
Just a question out of interest without any significant knowledge about Hema or any other kind of historical swordsmanship; Is there actually some sort of requirement in terms of one's own body height to effectively use a blade as large as a Flamberge, Montante or the likes?
Edit: Just for a reference, I am about 171 centimeters from head to toe, so for example, would I be able to learn and use a greatsword such as a Zweihander?
Greybox48 171 centimeters- that correct? That’ll put you just about five feet.
Most examples of greatsword- Montante, spadone, zwiehander- measure at least six foot.You could feasibly make a big longsword with the greatsword dimensions, but then you lose so much potential...
Yes, you can do it. But you will have a very difficult time. The only thing that limits you is your training, preference, and determination. Decide to do it, and it shall be done.
@@grayblackhelm6468 Actually, 171cm is 5ft 7 inches, or about average height for an adult European male in the middle-ages.
Also, greatswords varied in length between 150 cm and 180 cm (5ft to 6ft) so there are historical examples suitable for someone that tall.
www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html#.XH0BpYj7S00
is that one o they combat kilts wee patches o cat curtains stuck on it on it on it?
+LondonLongsword Why do you think Montantes never were popular in the battlefield? It's a serious question, I mean, it's my favourite hystorical weapon but for some reason it never had that much popularity in the battlefield. I read somewhere that Greatsword users in armies comprised only around 2% of the whole infantry, and if we look at the timespan they were used it's tiny compared to the lifespan of other weapons (it started to be used around the reinassance and after 100years or so it's popularity dropped significantly to the point of exctinction). I always though it was probably because to their cost and maintenance, after all you need more steel to make one of those than to make, lets say, a bill; not to mention that since it's a more delicate weapon it required more care. But thats just my assumption, don't know if you would be kind enough to share your take on this.
It's neither a sword or a polearm but a bastardisation of both. A regular sword does the job of a sword better, a regular polearm does the job of a polearm better. Greatswords were sparingly used for a reason, there were simply better tools available for the various jobs at hand. I love them too though, very cool.
I agree that cost had something to do with it, not only because of the sword themselves, but because of the armour. Wielding greatswords basically required you to use full plate armour, because you don't have an off hand with which to use a shield, which is way cheaper. Being a two-handed-swordsman was a pretty expensive thing on itself; I can imagine arming thousands of men with shields and longswords or polearms was cheaper than arming the same amount with greatswords and full plate. There were probably other reasons, of course.
A spear is simply better and cheaper as a thrusting long weapon, and cutting weapons became really unpopular in general the more armor developed. Though that’s not to say a good thrust from a greatsword through a gap in your armor wouldn’t fucking wreck you
Large swords have always been made, even as far back as 1,100. But there was a status to such a blade. It is more about the appearance than the weapon, usually.
And when a greatsword is used in combat, it’s almost always a body or a town guard, rather than military.
As others have said, spear and polearms thrust and hack better, and longswords simply sword better.
Since your comment is 4 years old you've probably found an answer allready, but just in case: Armor and Formations. These blades where largely ineffective against armor, and a hinderance to surrounding allies you are supposed to fight alongside with.
For other places, it was rather inconvenient due to it's size. It's use was therefore limited to mercenaries protecting/escorting traders or patroling certain places of importance.
Can short people become great swordsmen, even using large swords like the zweihander?
With your skirt, u look like a Templar from Gothic 1
Can you recommend a book to get started on Montante?
Where is the best place to find training or practice Great swords like what you have?
Thank you
howard stern
where can I get a kitten kilt?
skilts :)
Hi excuse me. What brand its that Sword?
subscribed!
yesterday trailer
Can great sword use for armour pierce ? i feel the blade kinda thin..
Luu Nguyen
Swords weren't used to pierce armour. At most, to get inside the gaps.
You can squeeze between gaps with this.
However, you will NEVER pierce armor with a sword, regardless of the weapons size, shape, sharpness, or the building material.
Are u a Templer from Gothic 1 ?
Greatsword purpose:
+anti pikemen(zweihander,nodachi)
+hacking (Nodachi,Claymore)
+area control(Montante,Spadone)
+use as shock troop(Claymore,Zweihander)
+Anti Cal(Zhanmadao,Nodachi,Zweihander)
+awsome
But, if Figueiredo wanted to use the montante in that way dont you think he could go on detail about it? He did wrote a 300 page manual on sword fencing before, so it is not like he wasn't able. I still would love to see people assuming the simplicity in the montante material without wanting to turn it in something else or thinking of it as something lesser :(
Frederico Martins I wouldn't like to assume.:)
Frederico Martins I only comment on what he said, I don't want to assume what he meant. Goliath gives a more Mr L approach to it. things are different, that's all.:)
got it!
Taking the risk of commenting on a dead thread let me point out that Figueyredo's book on destreza was when he was a phlipine general, verdadera destreza de las armas being a new school of fighting linked to the spanish rule of europe. After the portuguese restoration of independence Figueyredo felt the need to write about a traditional, even if outdated by the time, martial school to reassert his loyalty. Figueyredo's montante rules were presented as a masterclass to the portuguese prince, not as a manual.
LondonLongsword is right to read the rules as broad strokes condensated for clarity but open to development.
do more with less as the old saying goes
how tall are you
the new phat dragon 5 feet maybe 6 or 7 inches
He’s gotta be around six foot and inches.
No taller than 5'6 I'd say. Definitely not 6 foot
big iron ivan the montante he's using is 5"10 so somewhere around that area