But without the govt grant, it would be unaffordable. And it is not govt money,...it comes from our taxes...which should be used for pensioner fuel allowance and cancer treatment/operations.... and many other vital spending matters.
Cool, we should let the kids freeze and starve though, shouldn't we? Check out the figures of children Vs pensioners living in poverty. Anyway, when did this become a debate about taxes and the use of those taxes. The BUS grant isn't even a footnote in the government's overall budget. Barely a speck compared to the domestic oil and gas industry subsidies and peanuts compared to the emissions fines if we don't crack on and meet targets. The reason heat pumps are only marginally more affordable to run in this country compared to our European neighbours is due to our spark gap. Us people with large electricity bills are the ones now subsidising those gas consumers. Once that spark gap closes, gas prices will increase and electricity will decrease, making the switch a no brainer. Finally, I've paid way more than my fair share of tax for the last 22 years and because of means testing I've never been eligible for a single penny of government assistance. Why should pensioners get any more say in how taxes are spent than I do? Thanks for making this into part of the culture wars. Many people utilising the BUS grant pay more tax in one year than the £7.5k they receive back. Sorry, you clearly hit a nerve...
@@UpsideDownFork If children are in ''poverty'' then that is the fault of the parents, too often a single mother. The latter seemingly unable to put 15p's worth of breakfast cereal into their child's tummies before they set off for school. Do not blame a thing called ''society''. Pre-1997, Blair pledged to tackle ''poverty'' but we ended up with Benefits Britain and colossal welfare dependency,...brilliantly exemplified by Channel 4's Shameless TV series at that time. Evil Blair must have hated it.
@@UpsideDownFork Without subsidies, no-one would ever buy these monstrosities. They are a solution to a problem that does not exist. Climate alarmists are forever trying to put the willies up us. Most of us rightly treat them with the contempt they richly deserve.
@@ByJimineeItsBREXIT-z2k Oh deary me, you're taking a fictitious comedy TV series as evidence to back up your politics ? Perhaps you support the Scottish government who will be restoring Winter fuel payments to pensioners next winter, as the process has just been devolved to them ? As an aside, most UK benefits are paid to low salary workers; essentially taxpayers funding profits of companies that give little value to their employees.
The pensioners when they were working should have spent their money wisely and not on stupid holidays fags or booze but providing for their futures.If they ate well and avoided bad health habits they would have reduced their risk of cancer. subsidising installation of low carbon technology is an investment not consumption and gives a return for humanity. The old are not worth the effort, I should know Ian 70.
It’s great to see a fairly bog standard installation from a supplier like British Gas performing so well. Much as I enjoy seeing beautifully designed and executed systems running underfloor heating on an open loop, the majority of installations will be more like yours. It shows that you can have hydraulic separation and still have a SCOP of 4 plus.
Agree. The more research and videos I watch I've realised you need a valiant heat pump (possibly a viesmann too) and a bog standard install will deliver a decent scop.
Good info, loved the idea of whispering so everyone could hear how “Loud” the heat pump really is. More info on how you tweaked the curve would be good
@@JonathanTracey ua-cam.com/video/Ks55Hi2O81I/v-deo.html You'll have to adapt the exact controls for your Daikin but the principles are the same for both. 👍
Haha, very funny. It'll be interesting to see how many people take it seriously. After all, what a silly man using a spanner as a microphone, of course we won't be able to hear anything 🤦🙄
Both my dogs started barking when that dog barked on the video. Not until I had let them out the front door were they satisfied the danger had gone away
I’ve just been quoted £3200 for a heat pump from Octopus, including all necessary radiator upgrades, and a new hot water cylinder. So only £1800 more than yours. If the savings are as suggested, payback would be about 4 years.
It’s a different question for someone who doesn’t play around with the settings and has no idea how to e.g. the average consumer. “is a heat pump any good” has a different answer for those depending on what happens depending on a range of complex factors. I’m (broadly) happy with mine but the savings are marginal at best if there will be any and it’s been a lot of hassle along the way.
The current gen of Vaillant software, while capable, is pretty noddy. With machine learning and better design it could be constantly tweaking and optimising itself in the background. That would take some pressure off installers to get it right first time, and off homeowners trying to wrap their head around the science. Some of the heat pump start ups eg. AIRA seem to be promising things like this. No idea whether it's actually true or whether it's just AI marketing guff (these days everyone seems to be slapping an AI sticker on anything in the hope it will help sell it). It would be very cool if Vaillant came out with some new controls that utilised cloud-based collective learning to help gather usage data and improve future designs and efficiency... just like self driving cars. MyVaillant Connect seems to hint that might be the way they're going...
2nd winter with ours and we're really dialling in the settings now. It's by far the best heating system I've ever experienced. People visiting notice it as well - not too hot, never too cold. Just right.
I have to admit I dont have a clue about my heat pump. In Scotland we were given a heat pump&,radiators. Hot tank & attic insulation for nothing so I assumed I was on a winner. I feel my bills are less, I have a new system including 6 solar panels. We were off the gas grid so we qualified for everything. First time in my life I have cosy house. Dogs love it.❤️
I admire you're patience and tenancy dealing with so many trolls and people who havent got the faintest clue what they are talking about, but think they have a 'gotcha'. The bitterness towards more climate friendly technology solutions like heatpumps and EVs is utterly bizarre.
@@AlanTov thanks for your support. People are welcome to their opinions but sharing them as fact does wind me up. Also, why is this such a controversial political issue? 🤔
@@UpsideDownForkit's (wrongly) seen as a lefty, liberal thing which causes some people to foam at the mouth. Quite a few of them are also climate change deniers if you scratch the surface. I personally want to try and help leave a better future for my kids. Affordably. Keep up the great work!
Well, I've have had both an EV and a heat pump system. The car was a complete pain in the bum to live with and then also developed a fault that meant it required a new battery pack, which by the time the car was a few years old cost more than the car was worth! That meant it was a total loss and by the time I factored in the price when new I worked out I'd actually lost several thousand pounds! Long story short I now drive a diesel again! The heat pump also a false economy, anyone who claims they're saving thousands a year on heating is a total lier! They absolutely do not, I was saving about £50 per month in the peak summer months, in the winter it was gobbling electricity at a horrendous rate and cost a fortune! I worked out that I wasn't any better off really and the cost of having installed wouldn't be offset for nearly a decade in real terms, by which time any breakdowns would not be covered and were likely to be very expensive to have fixed! As luck would have it next doors tree fell across our garden and damaged it beyond repair. Back on gas now and I'm much happier for it! 😊
@@Altair885Which EV and which heat pump did you have? Thanks for calling me a liar. I once choked on a carrot. That means no one should ever eat carrot. Catch my drift?
@@UpsideDownFork Nissan eNV 200 people carrier version. Heat pump was a Fujitsu, not sure which model without checking. I am sorry for what seems like strong language but I fail to see how it is that some people claim to be saving all this money when both my own experience, and that of others I know personally does not equate to that same result. The only conclusion that I come to is what they are claiming is false! We had our HP checked several times by different people to ensure its effectiveness. We were told it had optimal positioning and functionality but it was just the inclement weather and similar factors to blame! In effect what it actually became was an electric heater, and a very inefficient one at that! In the colder months the combi works out far cheaper to run.
The running cost is only slightly better than a modern gas boiler as gas is 4 times cheaper than electricity. Until that changes the uptake of heat pumps will be low.
Another rubbish video about heat pumps. Reality is that capital expenditure to buy heat pump is many times higher than buying equivalent boiler. This guy quotes about cost of boiler for his house are just blatant lies. Even in London you can get gas boiler installed for £3k. How does he think his heat pump subsidy is financed? By putting surcharges on people with gas boilers, so some parasites like him can virtue signal. I have no problem with people choosing whatever technology they want. But without expecting the rest of society, many much poorer than green idiots, to subsidise their life choices. Heat pumps are the same con as electric cars. If you exclude 75% tax on petrol, EV are more expensive to run even charged at home. If you charged them on the street at 80p kwh, there are at least 3 times more expensive to run. Soon reality of green lies will be obvious to most people, apart from woke clowns with degrees in gender studies.
@@UpsideDownFork Will the spark gap ever close? And why? Surely as electricity demand increases and gas demand decreases, market forces will make gas cheaper and electricity more costly. Until the Government move the Green Levy to gas instead of electricity, and that's not going to happen anytime soon, I predict the spark gap will increase. After all, it has increased from 3.2 to 4.1 in the 2 years since Q4 2022. And in that time our electricity has increased to 100% wind and hydro, but the spark gap continues to increase.
Servicing? Average £50-100 more than gas boiler. Deduct £109 for annual gas standing charge and we're even. Plenty of people claiming that a well maintained ASHP will outlast a well maintained boiler by 5-10 years easily, time will tell on that one.
@@JP-wo4ic supply and demand I guess. Like you say, will probably self rectify in time. Personally I will have it serviced to retain warranty and then I'll do it myself.
@@UpsideDownForkyou can only take the gas standing charge into account if you’re replacing everything in your house that uses gas. I’ve got a gas fire and gas hob as well, so replacing or at least removing in the case of the fire, will be another few grand. Plus I’ll lose the backup source of heat when the HP breaks down. It’s never straight forward.
@@farab4391 I'm not sure if you are trolling or not. Induction hobs are the way forward. Easy to cook on, easy to clean, way more efficient and not polluting the air in your home. If you are concerned about a backup heat source, you can have immersion elements fitted to a heat pump for a worst case scenario. I'll let you know in 10 years time if we could have used one.
I've had air/air heat pumps in two homes and they are great provided the only energy source you have is electricity but if you have access to mains gas don't even think about a heat pump as they let you down when you most need them as the temperature falls below around 5 DegC. At that temperature they have to start defrosting the external heat exchanger and the efficiency plummets along with the heat they can pick up. My brother has a super-efficient oversized Daiken unit installed in a super insulated home and even that struggles to keep the place warm so he uses a wood stove to top up the heat levels. Maybe in drier climates they can work but in the w damp British climate the defrosting effort they have to go through kills their efficiency stone dead just when you need it to be efficient.
My COP remains around 3 on those cold days when defrost cycles are required. I shared a lot of data around this last winter which you can find on the channel. Correct sizing is very important. Air to air heat pumps do not tend to be properly calculated in the same way that air to water heat pumps are with proper room by room heat loss calculations. But the real reason that air to air heat pumps tend to not work as well in the colder weather is how you are running the system. They have to be on low and slow when the weather gets cold. I can only surmise that your brother also has a sizing or operating issue. Low and slow is the key.
Well done Ricky. Very concise and informative report detailing all the facts. Data is king and even the sceptics will have a job arguing with this one. Thanks for taking the time and effort to share your heat pump experience.
Don't have the space in my house for hot water cylinder and nigh on impossible to run the extra associated pipework, However I do have 3.6kw solar and 15kw battery setup. Also have new Vaillant Ecotec 826 Combi with external weather sensor. My electricity export tariff for excess solar generated will pay for my gas bill through winter. Based on this and even if I could install a heat pump at the prices I was quoted for my situation it would likely take me about 30 years to break even. By that time I will be pushing up daisy's :)
The break even will come down significantly when we get more renewables on the grid, as electricity prices will drop relative to gas. Also, the gas main will be shut off at some point, so a heat pump will need to be fitted then, better to get it while we have the BUS grant. However, the main difference is the environment, fitting a heat pump will do far more for the environment (far more) than anything you can do with solar panels etc. If your only consideration is money then it's a more difficult decision, but if you care about the environment then it's a no-brainer.
@@MentalLentil-ev9jr ....I can't imagine the gas main ever being turned off in this century....if it's good enough for generating electricity it's good enough for home heating....who is going to pay for heat pump installation for the 2.3 million out of work and not seeking work brigade, not to mention all the pensioners with little savings and all the social housing tenants, don't think the local authorities have the money and according to Starmer and Co the country has no spare money....I have solar and a battery and will soon be buying an EV but I shall stick to the instant and controllable heat from my gas boiler.
@@jeffgraham6387 We must turn off the gas supply, continually using a fossil fuel like gas for heating condemns future generations. When the grid is running entirely off of renewables and nuclear then electricity will become comparable in price to gas. Heat pumps even just directly replacing boilers with a heat pump and running at a high temperature will be much cheaper than gas, it's only the way gas prices are kept artificially low and electricity artificially high that make gas boilers even remotely viable. Solar and battery are a pretty pathetic way to help lower carbon compared to heat pumps, not totally useless (I have solar and will get battery) but a small advance and not enough. They are however a relatively easy way to save money with so a good investment if money is your main object, I'd rather be able to look my grandchildren in the eye.
@@jeffgraham6387 "I can't imagine the gas main ever being turned off in this century" ===== There will come a point when it becomes unaffordable with UK currently importing almost half its gas from Norway, and UK fields shutting down as they run dry.
I think it all depends on your individual situation. We had our 30 year old boiler replaced 2 years ago with a very efficient Worcester Bosch condensing boiler, it was an easy install in the same place as the old boiler, also we had extra pipework and extra radiator fitted, plus a new 3-way valve next to the pump and new controller. All this cost £2700 and has resulted in about a 20% reduction in gas use. Servicing is £60 annually. Our house is a 60 year old 4 bed semi so not as well insulated as a modern place. Having had this upgrade not long ago it would not make sense to rip it out and spend a bunch more for at least several years.
I've just changed over to a heat pump from a relatively modern combi. The benefits are that the house is warmer, quieter, I'm paying much less annually and it will pay for itself eventually. But it is a large cash outlay and I'd recommend an upgrade when changing a boiler or some other major renovation work. To get the benefits you will probably need to change many radiators, perhaps some pipework and need to find space outside for "boiler". This can be disruptive.
My Daikin heat pump is fantastic. Runs for years without servicing or gas safety inspection. It just works and it's cheap coz I insulated my house. And it cools my house in summer. And it cannot explode, gas is dangerous and blows buildings apart.
This is my first year with a heat pump. So far I agree with all your points (cheaper to install, cheaper to run etc) the only negative I can think of is will the heat pump last as long as my boiler lasted (28yrs) although many people have told me new boilers will only last about 15 years. My Dakin heat pump has a 7 year warranty as long as I pay for the servicing so I’ll worry about it in 8 years 🤣 I guess it will be pretty simple to swap a heat pump for a new one.
and when it needs replacing in the next 10 years, you’ll be covering the whole of the £12,500 yourself. Any savings you’ve made up to then will effectively be less than nothing.
Most of the £12.5k cost is in system i.e. radiator, pipework, cylinder upgrades etc. When the heat pump itself needs replacing in 20 years, it will be approx £2k.
@ I hope so, but I strongly doubt it. Nothing made from thin metal lasts for 20 years outside in the UK weather. My gas boiler just made 20 years and that’s only because it’s in a dry garage. £2k is definitely underestimated.
@@farab4391 Plenty of 2004 cars on the road with zero corrosion. I've felt the casings for the Vaillant heat pump and the gauge of metal used is thicker than car panels. You can buy a heat pump for £2k retail from public places like screwfix. Trade accounts can get you a Samsung heat pump for less than £1k. Google is your friend.
Great and entertaining video. My gas boiler is playing up. If it needs replacing I will def consider a heat pump. The only issue is finding a place for the hot water cylinder. Current gas boiler is a combi
Great point! If you're coming from a combi then you need to consider making a cupboard inside the house or externally and in some cases, the loft. Good luck!
There are tall skinny tanks. Horizontal tanks for the eaves. Heat geek offer a mini tank to fit in a kitchen cupboard size. And sunamp do heat batteries that can replace a hot water tank. Just something to look at.
@@robinbennett5994 there are a few options. Where the boiler is in the kitchen, a coat cupboard in the hall with the bathroom shower directly behind (but shallow) and a first floor “airing” cupboard (with a sloping ceiling). All would cost a bit of storage but manageable
@@joewentworth7856 I’m sure there’s a workable solution I have some long storage areas in the eaves in addition to the areas mentioned in my other reply. Good idea getting a tank to fit in there😀
Like the whisper presentation intro, amusing & informative. I recently increased the high temperature on profile from 40 to 48 degrees as house was hovering a degree or so below my 20-21 degree home preferred temperature. That only became noticeable on -3 to 1 degree days we had. Still tweaking settings/learning as 1st full Winter now. Interestingly though worst cold days it’s still costing way less than when we had gas boiler. Which is surprising as assumed these might be the few days which cost more. Octopus tariff to rescue perhaps?
I'm at the beginning of my journey. My current system is much as yours was - 30 year old Ideal Classic. I've had an Octopus survey and am awaiting next steps having accepted. I remain a little apprehensive even though my head tells me all will be well.
I was also extremely apprehensive. Especially as I have a wife that feels the cold and 3 kids running around. Part of the reason I wanted to document and share this experience is that it works and it works really well!
I was a bit worried about the noise levels before my install so after it was done in July I ran a hot water heat up in the middle of the day to have a listen. Thought it wasn't working. 😂
I am getting a survey done in the new year. Concerned about possible bigger radiators needed in my 7 year old house. I have dialled down the flow temperature on our Combi boiler to 45º and am sat here sweltering.
For info , I have two 11kw Mitsubishi r32 ecodans just commissioned . They have been set on constant , there are no thermostats currently in the house , at a flow temperature of 25 degrees . Overnight with nothing else at all on in the house as the board is turned off , plant room is separate to house , the two pumps used an average of 1.3723 kw per hour , outside temperature at night was mild at 9 degrees . That’s over three floors about 430 square metres , ground has underfloor heating the other two floors have 15 K3 rads with valves all set to max , with a total output at T50 of 40346 watts . So they are barely luke warm in operation . On entry first thing when there have been no occupants overnight the house is very warm , too warm if you are physically doing something ,probably very comfortable if sedentary . It demonstrates to me that it’s the insulation all over and windows that are the key factors to pour your resources into if you believe you are staying somewhere for years . What it also tells me is that with the costs of insulation and all the kit on top it’s not an economic proposition , it will make your house more comfortable and your ongoing costs can be minimal , but as return on capital , ouch . As a green contribution good , although you could argue about the resources that went into all the products however if viewed over a buildings lifetime then the argument becomes mute .
Great Video, next year it would be great to see the total cost of your all electric house. Heating, Hot Water and miles in your electric car. EVM does it and it is always amazing how little it costs to run a fully electric house
Work out how much less energy is used , the efficiency is impressive. We ditched 12500 kwh of gas and nearly 40000 kwh equivalent of petrol and diesel.
Boomer here. Can remember the power cuts in the 70s and would never go all electric. Always had a gas hob and a gas or wood fire to back up the combi which is dead in a power cut.
@@mikeonfreeserve2926 lived in this area for 14 years and never had a power cut. In my previous town we had 2 power cuts in 10 years. I'm not worrying, but can you send me your address in case we get desperate?
Love the video. I have a Mitsubishi 11.2kW unit, the whole system was £15k 4 years ago but only about £3k to us after 7 years of RHI. And fair, having to find £15k up front was not easy, and the amount of carbon saving we're doing on the government's behalf is only fair (since they can continue to burn gas in CCGT & ship woodchip across the atlantic), especially since we also have loads of PV & a battery. In this £15k we had a removal of our crusty ant-infested back boiler, 11 new rads, an extra floor plumbed in, horizontal tank shoehorned into the loft, heatpump high mounted above a ground floor extension. Massive amount of space back, no garden sacrifices, and after a bif of tinkering later it's now giving us whole house cooling in the summer too (courtesty of aftermarket fancoils) and is cheaper to run that gas was as well. People comparing this to a £1500 combi are mad, it's like comparing a ford fiesta to an S class Merc, totally different things. One small point to make though, Vaillant are a bit naughty with their COP calculation: they roll the consumed energy into the produced energy as well, so their COPs are slightly inflated compared to the simple standard COP measurement. Standard COP: energy out/energy in. Vaillant COP: (energy in+energy out)/energy in.
Thanks for sharing your experience! On the Vaillant COP issue. They show Electricity Consumption, Environmental Yield & Heat Generated. Most other companies don't present the "environmental yield" data. All companies are calculating their COP in the same way though, just different terminology. Here's an example. 233.3kWh Heat generated 175.9kWh Environmental yield 67.5kWh Electricity consumed. Electricity + Environmental yield does not = Heat generated because they do factor in the external losses. As you can see in this case, they calculate (more accurately - estimate) a loss of 10kWh. Hope that makes sense!
I have had my heat pump since September 2024. Installation week was a challenge because I had 12 new radiators fitted and nearly every room in the house was affected BUT it was worth it. I am so impressed with it. The whole house has a full through warmth. It has completely surpassed my expectations and it is working out cheaper than my gas boiler. It cost £2900 + BUS grant. What is not to like.
And redecoration costs? In the days when houses were heated by coal fires or stand alone gas and electric heaters many householders chose to install central heating systems. They did this at their own expense, there were no subsidies. Why should heat pumps be different?
@BrianSmith-ow9gy that's not entirely accurate. From 1968 onwards there were numerous government programs to push things forwards, some of that was conversion from town gas to "natural" gas. Adjust for inflation and that cost the tax payer 100 times what the BUS grant does. Once the coal miners strike and OPEC driven oil crisis hit, the government at that time did offer some support for those moving away from goal or oil towards gas. There's some good reading to be had on the OBR or the rapid transition alliance websites 👍
When gas boilers were first introduced, people weren't obsessed with the cost, so why is everyone overly obsessed with the cost of heat pumps when the benefits are ao obviously positive. Great video. Thanks
This is my first winter using the Vaillant Arotherm 5k. It has a SCOP of 4.4, which drops to 3.3 when the temperature falls to 5C or below, due to the defrost cycles. It seems Vaillant units don't manage these cycles as well as some other brands. Even at 3.3 my heating/hot water costs are still cheaper than when using gas. I'm so happy with the change over from a relatively new combi boiler. My house is warmer and quieter. I've switched to the Cosy tariff from Agile, and this is when my battery proves helpful. With three low-cost periods and a 10kWh usable battery capacity, I almost never use peak electricity. My average cost is about 13p a unit since the switch and was up to 19p in the early part of October when I was still on Agile, what are your costs?
@@UpsideDownFork I have looked at my data more closely. It seems like I get a straight line relationship between COP and outside temp. DHW is worse than space heating because of the higher temperatures. Other heat pumps seem to perform better a lower temperatures
@@ChidleyEngineering I've noticed that Viessman do really well with defrosts and supposedly Ebac handle it in the same way. But otherwise I can't split the difference between the R290 heat pumps in performance.
The cop doesn't sound much different, I have the Daikin 6kW (R32) and at 5C external COP was @ 3.5 and at -3C was COP 2.9, I'm working with flow control @ 34C (or 36 at times) 24/7 for now, rather than weather compensation. What I have seen however is that lower demand produces fewer defrost cycles. My unit performed about eight over the coldest 24 hour period last week. My average energy use was 960 Watts per hour over coldest 24 hour period here (N.E Scotland) where ten hours was between -2C and -3C. This compares to 400W/h when at 10C or above externally (for 34C flow), and COP of 4.3, and higher as temperature rises.
@@_Dougaldog In contrast, my heat pump defrosted 28 times on my coldest day (1.8C). Obviously defrosting is driven by the amount of water in the air, and NE Scotland at -2C I expect is dryer than London at 2C. Having said that, I'm driving my heat pump really hard. I averaged 5.3kW output, 34C flow, from a 5kW heat pump that day. I'll be within the 6.4kW maximum output, according to the manufacturer's data, at the -3C design temperature. I designed and installed the system knowing that I'd be driving it like this. Partly as an experiment to see if I could design and install it correctly (I use radiators only, no underfloor heating) but mostly because I plan to upgrade the roof of my conservatory. Replacing that roof will cut my peak heat demand by 1kW. Glass roofs are terrible.
We run a firewood business and several of our customers have gone down the air source heat pump. What we have noticed is they still buy the same amount of firewood of us. They say it’s just not warm enough were they sit.
I have a heat pump since end 2022. arround 2500kwh per year for 23 degree on 200sqm. It was also cheaper than replacing the old woodgas heater due to „new“ (new phase of a law from 2011) regulations for fine particles).
And the installation and equipment shouldn't even cost what you're quoting. I can buy an 8kW heat pump for under 2k Euro, and installation here in Finland is no where near what you guys pay there...
Exactly. A Vaillant Arotherm 5k is £3.5k here and the installation costs are massive in the UK. This will get cheaper as more heat pumps are installed.
@@PurpleAlienPlanet I can go and buy a 8kW heat pump tomorrow for less than £2k. Samsungs are available at that price from retail sites. The total price is an accumulation of hundreds, literally hundreds of parts. I've totalled up my system with a trade account and it is more than £13k+vat once you factor in the complete list of pump, cylinder, controls, valves, pump, expansion vessels, pipework, lagging, base, electrical etc etc. Then you factor in a team of 4-5 guys over 6 full days. Average day rate for a tradesmen these days is £350. That's £10,500 in labour. I don't buy into this narrative that the tradesmen are ripping us off or anything like that. Once all UK homes are retrofitted up to a decent standard for heat pumps, the next time it comes to replacement it will be incredibly cheap.
I had my heat pump installed January 11th 2024 So I’ve nearly had it in for 1 year. Here are my stats. 2023 gas costs for heating & hot water £1100 2024 costs to date £345 for heating & hot water on ovo energy tariff 15p for heating & hot water. This is what I can report to date, on January 11th 2025 I can give a full years cost. I’m extremely happy with my heat pump, mine has been correctly designed & installed. I have a valiant 7kw heat pump in a 4 bed detached property
Funny you never hear people ask if air conditioning will work on hot weather. A small amount of knowledge can lead you astray, And on January 13, 1920, the New York Times published an editorial insisting that a rocket couldn't possibly work in space: "That professor Goddard, with his 'chair' in Clark College and the countenancing of the Smithsonian Institution [from which Goddard held a grant to research rocket flight], does not know the relation of action to reaction, and of the need to have something better than a vacuum against which to react -- to say that would be absurd. Of course he only seems to lack the knowledge ladled out daily in high schools." In 1968 NY Times wrote: "Further investigation and experimentation have confirmed the findings of Isaac Newton in the 17th century, and it is now definitely established that a rocket can function in a vacuum as well as in an atmosphere," the Times editors wrote. They added, "The Times regrets the error." (Forbes article Jul 20, 2018)
During the most humid times of the year Florida restricts electricity supply via software in smart meters because the grid cannot supply enough electricity. Like you say - a small amount of knowledge can lead you astray.
@@UpsideDownFork Also applies to the laws of thermodynamics. Claiming any machine can produce more energy than it consumes is as silly as the 1920 NYT article.
@@BrianSmith-ow9gy just as I shared on another one of your comments... A heat pump moves energy. It transfers energy from the outside air to the internal air inside the building. The same as a solar panel transferring energy. You likely already own multiple heat pumps. Your fridge, the AC in your car are just two examples. No one is claiming to break any laws of thermodynamics. In fact, vapour compression technology is built upon the fundamental principles of thermodynamics and has been an effective method of transferring heat energy for many decades.
I had my gas boiler removed last May and replaced with a 7kW Vaillant aroTHERM air source heat pump The system is performing very well and my house temperature is far more consistent and comfortable and cheaper to run, I don’t have the figures for a full winter yet but my gas bill for heating for October 2023 with our old boiler was £102, (including standing charge on the meter) my electricity cost to run my heat pump for October 24 was a mere £20, my gas bill for November 2023 was £149, my heat pump running cost for November 2024 was £34.00, that’s an 80% reduction in my heating costs. 3 bed extended semi in Berkshire, running at 22.5 degrees 24/7, with an average COP of 4.5, Intelligent Octopus Go EV tariff @ 7p/kWh. A 20kWh home storage battery enables me to time shift 97% of my household electricity consumption to the cheap tariff. Removing my gas meter saves me an additional £115 per year
Have followed your journey - I have solar and a battery now, 2 heat pump surveys in next 2 weeks - BG and Octopus. You are an expensive man to follow and have cost me more than when I watch MKBHD videos!
I am in very early stages of following your setup as well, got two solar + battery/just battery consultations in the next 4 weeks, plus one of the two will assess if a heat pump will work in my property. Found out my rafters are the cheaper option, so solar might be too heavy for them so I'd need to reinforce the rafters if I wanted to put solar panels on. Also, main roof is 45° NE facing, so really not sure if it's worth it for the output, high summer, look little in the winter when I actually need it! Last thing, Octopus better hurry up and install my smart meter, 4 no show appointments now, until I have that fitted and understand our daily /mthly usage patterns, battery size and solar cannot be guessed, so I am just getting quotes for now. Excellent video, comedy gold from the dog! Keep it up
In Norway the houses are better insulated, a big factor for old houses retro fitting in the UK, also there are over 11 times as many people in the UK and the heat pump changeover is scheduled by the UK government to be done by 2035, needless to say price gouging is in force due to a forced take up rather than an economic one, the UK is currently installing less than half of the required heat pumps by 2028 and this figure is "supposed" to more than double from 2028 to 2035, there is no economic reason for over 50% of older houses in the UK to change, better to spend money on internal wall insulation and keep gas, installing solar/ battery/ insulation/ heat pump is £30,000 on average. Ditto with Network Grid and EV's infrastructure is not in place but the government wants the changeover to happen anyway and the figures are not being met at present, there is no way they can be met in the future. I want renewable because that is Europe's way of becoming energy independent, however stopping carbon energy which we have "some" of to import from other sometimes unfriendly countries is rather foolish, and our implementation of renewable energy is not driven by economics but by ideology this will not work, horses and carriages were changed to ice vehicles as they became far cheaper and more convenient, currently EVs are not cheap at all, they can be imported from China at lesser cost but not as cheap as ice vehicles but that brings in a whole load of different problems of dependency like with Russian energy, it's not going well!?!
@@TomTomicMic Made perfect economic sense for me to change out my 17 Y/O defunct boiler driving seven 40 Y/O radiators and a 60 Y/O HWC. Smart new highly efficient HP, shiny new well sized radiators, all new 28mm feed & 15mm tee copper pipes, shiny new Mixergy smart HWC, and all for under £4k. And a 14p/kWh 24/7 HP electricity Tariff, what's not to like.... And regarding EV's, you can pick up a decent three year old for £10-22k (£22k or less for a Tesla) with up to 4/5 year warranty, and lees than 2p per mile to run.... Makes perfect economic sense, and as an aside will reduce lung and cardiovascular diseases in UK.
Thanks for this video. It’s the first time the numbers have made sense to me, and they seem the right numbers, all are plausible to me. You’ve not massaged the consumption or the savings. Even when the cost of electricity is well above three times the cost of gas per kWh it still makes sense. Well done. In a new build it makes perfect sense, it would be careless to do anything else.
Thank you. I really tried hard in this video not to wear my rose tinted glasses and not to factor in my "free" solar panel energy etc etc. Glad it landed correctly.
A good observation on the TRUE cost of upgrading your old gas boiler to a modern unvented new gas boiler system. Potentially makes the heat pump the cheaper install.
The saving was only £64/Yr compared to a modern combi boiler on price cap tariffs. (£652 v £716) Thanks for point out that's the best saving most people in the country could expect to make!
Yes, if your boiler is well sized, modulates properly and has decent controls then it will reach an efficiency of 90%. Nearly all of them don't though. £64 x 15 years = £960. Save £107 per year on gas standing charges. But for me the real benefits aren't financial, even though that's all anyone ever asks about The house is warmer but critically way more comfortable. Always a nice temperature. Every room is now even with no hot and cold spots anywhere in the house. Absolutely brilliant and I'd happily pay a financial premium for a system that feels like this. Air quality is also better without burning stuff.
I think of it more as a tax rebate for all the taxes I paid over the years, and continue to do so into retirement. Where I object is the tax exemptions given to those fossil companies who pollute my environment. Some of whom have paid little in way of corporation taxes to UK economy in years. Or the 45% taxes for excess profit on renewable and nuclear electricity generation, against 30% on excess gas profit.
@@davidscott3292 In the financial year that this was installed, the BUS grant was 0.0065 percent of total public spending. So if you earned £50k and paid £10,000 tax last year, the BUS grant got 65p of that. Thanks. Now divide that 65p that a £50k earner has put into the BUS grant by the number of installations in that year - 48,900. That means I got 0.001 pence from a £50k earner to subsidise my home upgrade.
The installers who came to my house wanted 1/3rd of garage to install pipes and various tanks etc. They also werent keen to fit the unit outside by our boundary fence with neighbours. They couldn't give me any guarantees that our house would be warmer/cooler. Finally they said they needed to fit much wider radiators and new pipework (that had been laid in 2012).
So if, like us, you have a modern 90% efficient gas boiler, the payback period on an ASHP is likely to be more than 40 years. Annual saving of £64 vs cost of £4000. With electricity costing over 4x that of gas.
Why do people have to think about payback period? Would you think the same if you were replacing your boiler, double glazing , new kitchen etc. Adding these items improves your home, i just don't get this obsession that everything has to have a payback period or we don't buy them.
@JP-wo4ic We run weather compensated max 55C, but typically around 45C. I'd like to put an ASHP in, as we had one at our previous house, but the installed cost and cheap gas vs expensive electricity make it uneconomical.
@@UpsideDownFork Totally agree. Electricity is now over 4x the cost of gas per kWh. It was only 3.2x back in 4Q2022. By comparison, in Sweden electricity is only 1.1x the cost of gas. I live in the far north of Scotland, most of the time we're on 100% wind and hydro power, but we still have the most expensive electricity in Europe. Will the UK spark gap ever close to anywhere near what other European countries have? Until then, widespread adoption of heat pumps will be problematic.
Really interesting, we have a 4 bedroom detached house. I’m with octopus and have been quoted £1750 for a heat pump and all works including replacing radiators if needed. Spoke to my plumber mate and he said no brainier. So I’m about to pay for the survey.
Surely the elephant in the room is that the subsidy is an early-adopter incentive and is unsustainable. Its general taxation money and could be spent on the usual suspects of public services. The cost of them has not fallen fast enough.
Agree that it's not sustainable, even though it's tiny in the bigger picture of public spending. Right now, because uptake is so low, the amount actually spent on the BUS grant is peanuts compared to domestic gas and oil industry subsidies as well as the fines coming for missing emissions reduction targets. What we really need to incentivise further adoption is the spark gap to be resolved. This will massively affect the ongoing running costs and the attractiveness of the heat pump proposition.
@@UpsideDownFork The fact of the matter is that it may have cost you £4500, but it cost the rest of us £7500. That's a £12000 piece of kit, and when it needs repairing or replacing it will have costs associated with a £12000 piece of kit. I think any cost/benefit analysis should be based on the full cost, not on the fact that we (I) subsidised you.
@@jamesmansion2572 Are you feeling hard done by? What else don't you agree with when it comes to tax spending? In the financial year that this was installed, the BUS grant was 0.0065 percent of total public spending. So if you earned £50k and paid £10,000 tax last year, I got 65p of that. Thanks. Perhaps we should consider this a tax rebate. I've paid much more than my fair share of taxes in the last 22 years.
@@jamesmansion2572 on the cost of the installation, the heat pump itself is about double the cost of an equivalent gas boiler. The rest of the cost is labour, pipework, hot water cylinder, valves, etc etc...
@@jamesmansion2572 My HP is just under £3k without VAT, simple to replace, two water couplings and a handful of cables to reconnect. I notice you make no observation as to the grants that were awarded in the 70's and 80's to install new fangled gas boiler central heating systems in houses that had to be completely replumbed to replace coal fires. Nor the 90% grants for double glazing that were available.
Rick, you are doing a most excellent job attempting to educate those of us who are thinking of switching to a heat pump system. I for one thoroughly enjoy your content. My new 7kW Vaillant was commissioned 2 days ago and all is more than well. Comfortable, plenty of hot water and an efficiency just below 5. Thank you Sir! (atb Martin)_😁
Thanks for all the data in this one it really helps. I have a slightly smaller house with a little more usage then yours but it's good too see a comparison. I've done a heat loss calc and think a 7kw vailant is the way to go. I think your house probably would have been fine with a 5kw but doesn't seem to be much downside on getting the 7kw.
@@radfoo agreed. I would have had a bit more efficiency from the space heating with the 5 but the 7 is better for DHW and when it comes time for defrost cycles. 👍
Actually it’s true about the noise, vailliant are one of the better ones, but most of the noise complaints are from poor installation or older models usually from asian manufacturers or the cheaper manufacturers, many use standard cooler box fans that were not made for eu climate and have corroded, normally from 2016 . Normally even at 20 ft you WON’T hear it , but the bad /usually non maintained or misaligned which can resonate or have fan issues are audible from 400 ft , it’s a drone noise that is very annoying especially when the air is thin on cold nights , When installed many use a bed rock bottom to absorb the defrost cycle, but like gravestones the can shift over time , this is why it’s essential that the feet are mounted on rubber feet that clear the gravel onto a firm surface to prevent the sinking
Thanks for showing the average temperature - but can you also show the actual over a year? I’m keen to see what happens seasonally, and to see how much deviation there is in the temperature
Thanks. I've been working on a much deeper dive into the data behind this all, the video already stands at 40 minutes so I'm trying to prioritise stuff. Last winter it was a lot more constant, since running it on agile, I sometimes allow the house to heat up to 24 and cool to 18 on rare occasions for tariff reasons but it mostly sits consistently between 19-21 degrees all the time.
Got my heat pump survey with Octopus booked in. Fingers crossed it all goes well as like you, I have microbore (10mm). Have a possible option to re-pipe the rads up to 15mm as I'm going to be doing some other work to the house and it would be the perfect time to do it. That would cover all the rads to the front of the house, but have an extension at the rear which is all plastic microbore and not going to be straightforward to get to. Oh, and the tank is built into a very narrow airing cupboard so will need to take a stud wall out 😅 Octopus have already said on an initial phone survey that any re-piping would need to be done by a 3rd party prior to the installation. I'm one of the more mad people as I'll be taking at a fairly new boiler (93% efficient Viessmann). It'll be a lot of work, but just removing the boiler from the kitchen and having a more constant temp in the house is enough of a motivation. The house will be more comfortable and quieter, with a bonus that it's less polluting. Now, just got to convince the other half to let me grab another Fogstar 15.5kWh while they are down to £2k with the black Friday discount 😉
@@UpsideDownFork well after some number crunching and some eye rolling from the other half, the 2nd Fogstar has been ordered 😅£2k and delivery should be late Jan/early Feb. Noticed on a cloudy day at the weekend we can drain the battery by 4pm, a good day will just about see us through but most days seem to still be getting to 9-10pm before is done. This is before we go to a heat pump and elec ovens! I'm sure we will still have some days where we'll run out, but should be very minimal and wouldn't be enough to justify a 3rd 😉 Roll on the heat pump survey!
@@UpsideDownFork there's an RS485 cable that links the batteries and then a "DIP" switch to order the batteries. Not 100% but assume this will allow them to balance themselves. Hopefully they'll drain/charge evenly rather than forcing more from one first, will report back in Feb ;-) I did the firmware update a couple of weeks ago which resolved the charging issue where it was capped at 5kW, but could discharge at the full 8kW of the inverter. Knocked a good 45min off of the overnight charging time. On top of that, they have changed it to allow 95% DOD from 85% so another 1.5kWh of useable capacity. One thing I'm still not sure how to check is the internal heater. It's in a shed so assume it has been kicking in but need to look into it a little more. They have changed the connectors on the batteries from amphenol to M8 O rings, so I do need to see if they'll ship it with cables to connect the new to old or if I'll need to source those myself.
If they are installed right and in a suitable newish home with decent insulation they are generally fine. However, many installers are throwing them in and running away when there are issues leaving homeowners to pick up the cost of rectification.
Any home is compatible. The design and especially the emitter sizing is the critical part. It is a myth that newer homes are more suitable, in some cases they are worse for retrofit because of inaccessible plastic pipework.
@UpsideDownFork Older homes are suitable provided they are insulated correctly. No savings on a drafty old Victorian house. Sadly I have seen some really questionable installations where installers heat loss calculations were plucked out of thin air and poor house holder wondering why the HP runs 24/7. But again, the technology is good, but it's the shady installers making it a bit of a wild west.
@@beaverman1974 Insulation has no direct correlation to the efficiency of the heat pump. The emitter sizing dictates the required flow temperature and the COP as a consequence. A drafty old Victorian home with zero insulation could be properly heated by a heat pump if you can fit large enough emitters to compensate for the heat loss. The only thing that insulation does in this equation is reduce the heat loss which reduces the potential size of emitters and often when done poorly, introduce moisture problems.
@@beaverman1974that's the case with any form of heating. In general these days the running costs of a heat pump in that scenario will still be less than a gas or oil boiler.
Interesting video, great to see the before/after...I would be really interested to learn more about the average heating temperature..If you were to look back at your heat loss calcs on a room by room basis, what is the temperatures in each of those rooms, now ? the reason being is it would be really interesting from an Engineering perspective to see if those rooms are now comfortable...also don't know if you have seen Michael de Podesta YT channel on how to size a heat pump using Degree heating days, how does your heat pump (sizing) & heat loss calc stack up to interms of energy used over the year...might be an interesting video to make..cheers
I've covered both those points in previous vids but to save you going back to find the answers: I have a set of 3 bluetooth room thermometers which I move around. Good value off amazon, I should buy more! All of the rooms downstairs consistently achieve the design temps almost bang on. When I move upstairs things change a bit with rooms typically 1 degree warmer than design temp apart from our en-suite where my wife decided to keep the designer towel rail instead of a decent radiator. This does get good morning solar gain though being SE facing. Yes, i've seen all Michael's videos. His model for calculating heat loss does get in the same ballpark as our calculation. I wonder how conservative he is being because the energy we've used over the last year does not add up to our heat loss of almost 6kW. I did a fairly deep dive into one cold month last year and concluded that our heat loss calculation is 15-20% over what it really is. That's fine though, it means our oversized pump performs better for DHW and for defrost cycles.
@@UpsideDownFork Thanks for taking the time to respond and highlighting that you have done some on previous videos, I must admit I enjoy your approach to this topic and have watched numerous videos of the journey...The heat loss variant of 15-20% is pretty damn good as unless you do a true heat loss measurement which can be costly, I would be more than happy with that if it were me (I'm an Engineer).pretty impressed with the room by room design temp outcomes..cheers
@@martinlee7100 I guess my 1996 built home is a much easier proposition when it comes to heat loss calculations. Older and extended properties can be a lot more difficult!
Really enjoyed the video and found it useful. I'm currently awaiting a quote and as we have microbore pupes we are also going to need a buffer tank. I have been concerned that wont work but yor example shows it does. Have you found any issues with the bugger tank or has it all been plain sailing?
It's been working really well. Adding a buffer tank just makes things more idiot proof, both for the installer and for us homeowners. The pump can do what it wants to do and it gives us a little more flexibility to run the system internally how we want within reason. Yes, we sacrifice 5-10% efficiency by having a buffer but it gives peace of mind and helps with system volume for defrosts when it gets to that time of year.
Thanks, good review. When you record the noise, then go do the same outside a fan assisted gas boiler…they are quite noisy, well mine is. Space, a bit misleading, as you could have had an external gas boiler the same size or smaller. Try heating your house to the same temperature as you did previously, then compare, should even better. We live in an old house..only dream of 20deg+. 18deg is very comfortable especially once the internal surfaces are warm, I prefer a bedroom at 16deg.
So true. Neighbours on both sides have gas boilers which are far noisier! I would be happy to reduce the internal temp but my wife can't go back to a cold house after the comfort she's now used to!
I've lived with a Vaillant heat pump, after 3 in warranty call outs in the first 6 months im not convinced!😢 to the point I've moved house from new build to a old property with a Reliable Boiler 👍
Thanks for real world info. So useful seeing real installations. Where you quoted for a heatpump hot water system as i am assuming yours is direct from the main heatpump. Also to get enough daily cheap electricity should you not cost the additional battery too; as I would need to double the battery storage. When gas boiler dies then I hope to go this way.
Hi there ,I have had three quotes from three different companies all three has the same answer the cost is £15000 take away £7500 allowance leaving me £7500 to pay, for most of us that's far to expensive almost twice the cost of a replacement gas boiler.A really expensive boiler will cost around £4000 including fitting. My point is one solution doesn't fit all at present gas prices are four times cheaper than electricity and heat pumps are on average four times more efficient than gas boilers, at the moment there no great advantage in having a heat pump unless you have solar panels installed or a great big diesel generator to power it. I just think a the moment heat pump is a government screw up which they have said that a heat pump should cost after the allowance should cost around £4000 not £7500 which is the top end of a gas boiler.I am puzzled to why we can't have a hybrid head pump/small gas boiler both smaller units more easily powered solar and on really cold days the use of gas .Sadly my gas boiler has died and head pump is too expensive for me, i can not justify spending £7500 on a government flimsy idea so its gas boiler for me.
I’ve had my identical heat pump operating since Sep this year. My consumption is similar to yours last Nov and this Sep and Oct but my Nov consumption was235kWhr. How did you get your so low. I’ve reduced my Heat curve setting to 0.5, maybe I could try going lower. One thing that stands out about our experience is just how having the whole house at an even temp, no hot spots, no cold spots , improves comfort considerably.
Nice one Ricky. Just had a 14 KW Adlar heatpump installed a month ago. Still working out the settings. The electricity seems to be costing a lot more but no gas used at all. What are your thoughts on a Solar storage battery ? We have 10 solar panels for over 10 years on the high FIT tariff, an electric Mini charged on a MyEnergy Zappi charger. What storage battery would your subscribers recommend . We are on Octopus Energy Cosy tariff, is this the best for us ? Keep up the good work and many thanks.
Cosy can work for some people, in some homes. You will have to experiment and see. There are so many battery options. I'm going to start looking at them closely for myself and documenting it for the channel soon!
@rogerweller-i3d I have a 14kWh Tesla battery. Initially I was on the Octopus Agile tariff but I switched to Cosy as the battery just covers our needs in the more expensive periods. I heat the hot water in the cheap periods to avoid using the battery - this isn't great from a COP point of view but costs me less money. Battery costs are dropping quickly so I'd wait a year.
Another tick for the Tesla Powerwall, ours running flawlessly and with the Gateway offers power to house during power cuts ( if you get them) which with all electric houses is a big consideration. More batteries coming out all the time, no vat on them now and prices are falling. There’s now a good argument that having a battery before solar pv , especially if you have an EV so you can take advantage of tariffs like Intelligent Octopus is the thing to do. Even a simple cheap rate night tariff helps as you charge the battery on cheap rate during the night and use it during the day so minimising peak rate use.
No, I did not include the £109 gas standing charge in my calculations. This somewhat balances out with the higher servicing costs which can be £50-£100 more than a gas boiler.
@UpsideDownFork my father in law pays £40 a month for his boiler service charge! And it costs a lot to run. Trying to convince him to get a heat pump. I think your video will help :)
@UpsideDownFork octopus charge £108 per year for the servicing. Very close to the standing charge haha. Interesting looking at your cop for the winter. Our cosy 6 has been lower than I had hoped. I was putting it down the cold weather but I may have to get onto octopus. I have lowered the flow temp to 45 degrees and have noticed a small improvement
What most people do not realise is that to put a heat pump in is just not a direct replacement for their old gas boiler There is new pipe work and interior work tobe done
Correct, in most cases you will need some upgrades to the system. The prices I quoted in this video include those associated upgrades. In our case, we didn't need any internal pipework to be updated. The existing mix of 22mm/15mm and 10mm copper from when the house was built was entirely adequate. But we did upgrade the radiators on the existing pipework to help us have good efficiency. Luckily rads are cheap and I changed most of them myself.
Very informative video. What temperature do you heat your hot water to for showers and baths? How long does it take to heat up your hot water tank? Thanks
I also struggle with how to get a heat pump solution to work for older buildings. Fine and dandy in a thermally efficient property, but problematic if you need to keep radiators at a relatively high temperature to maintain a comfortable environment. You clearly have: Efficient double glazing … not permitted in a listed building (even the old thin glass has to be retained as it reflects light differently from the different panes). An effective damp course helping to keep walls dry … not practical in traditional stone faced and rubble filled walls. A draught-free building … not practical when you need to maintain airflow through rooms to control moisture levels. The age of your property clearly includes some form of cavity wall insulation … not practical in an old building with solid walls and not permitted to be externally clad and not feasible to apply on internal surfaces due to need to control damp passing through. I presume you also don’t rely on open fireplaces to allow rooms to ventilate ? From your discussion, it appears you also have solar to offset your energy usage … not permitted on a listed building. Installation of a heat exchanger close to the building … technically not permitted within the defined boundaries of a listed building. Drilling holes through your walls to connect to heat exchanger … also technically not permitted on a listed building (as an example, although I have a sky 😊dish, it had to be mounted remote to the building and is on a pole outside the curtilage .. and the cable fed back through a pre-existing hole in the wall). Underfloor heating? … problematic with stone flag floors laid directly onto the earth … and it is not practical to lift the flags and install underfloor insulation or pipe work (the building sits on top of the flags .. it would not be wise to disturb this construction as it might cause problems with movement … plus it is not normally permitted to disturb flagstone floors in a listed building). Overall … I just don’t see it to be a practical solution for an old building … although maybe aspects may become more practical if legislation changes are introduced to allow listed building owners to have more options. It would even be an improvement if common criteria applicable to listed buildings were to be mandated across the entire country, rather than being subject to the whims of individual local authorities. Sorry to appear so negative … although I dearly love my home and the features innate to old buildings, I am prone to venting some frustration in the official philosophy that such buildings be totally preserved to the exclusion of the realities necessary in the modern age. I even have friends who bought an old cottage that didn’t have an indoor bathroom … they had to fight tooth and nail to get permission for a soil pipe through the wall to install an indoor toilet. I also know of others that did eventually get permission for solar panels … but conditional that they could not be seen and didn’t detract from the aesthetic of the property from any angle … that makes the installation a little challenging!!
@@davidrowley-ic6dx properties with a higher heat loss need larger emitters i.e. radiators. Or insulation can be fitted to lower the heat loss and negate the need for larger radiators. Either way, any old house can be equally heated by any heat source as long as the design is correct 👍
If I recall correctly, you're also not looking to optimise your SCOP; you're sacrificing a bit of efficiency by using some more energy at the cheaper rates on Agile I think, so that's a really good outcome. I would find it useful to know exactly how you do that - is it that you increase the flow temperature by a degree or two during cheaper-rate periods and decrease it during the more expensive rate periods? You may already have talked about it? My gas bill over the last two years and assuming current gas rates is £539.97. It's a condensing combi and I'm not going to save all that much - maybe £100-200 per year. But I want to do my bit for the environment as well. Thank you for your detailed videos on the subject, among other youtubers who have helped dispel the myths surrounding this technology and explained how to achieve the best results; whacking it in and using it like a gas boiler won't do that (although I have mine wired up with opentherm to a nest thermostat which does help the efficiency a lot because it controls the flow temperature for me; I've seen somewhere that they think I'm getting 93% efficiency out of it). One thing that's always missing from the calculations that everybody neglects and I have also neglected is that a boiler will also use some electricity to run the pumps and control circuitry. Anyway, rambling! Enough! :)
I don't know what @upsidedownfork does but I'm trying to optimise for cost (a good COP is part of that). Here's what I do: run the hot water on ECO mode (a Vaillant "installer" setting), heat water in the cheap periods of electricity (this often isn't the best COP because the outside temperature is low), run a lower temperature overnight and slowly heat up the house in the morning.
Yes, that's correct. In essence, my heat pump is off from 4-7pm but mostly runs at 19-21 degrees for the rest of the day. This works pretty well to use the cheap overnight rates and then my solar kicks in for the middle of the day and then house is nice and warm with plenty of thermal mass to see us through the 3 hour period of off.
Thanks for the video. I get that replacing a boiler with a heat pump is the obvious thing to do, but should I consider an air2air or air2water system? With A2A I can have cooling in summer. Although I'm not sure if you can get a grant for it.
Like the microphone and dog’s perfect timing 😂. How did your heat pump perform during the recent cold spell? Would you kindly share the kWh consumption for Nov 20th, 21st, 22nd, 27th and 28th? Thanks
Good SCOP achieved, think it would be too disruptive in my house - plastic pipe work and low gas bills. However, may be taking on my mother’s house that’s running on oil with a 15 year old boiler and 38 year old tank. Micro bore copper pipe but all the downstairs is surface mounted.
@ because I don’t have UFH? Small diameter plastic piping have pipe inserts to every joint, restricting flow - this is according to Heat Geek, my present gas cost is about £600 per year, including hot water - 4 bed home, 4 occupants minimum.
I’m subscribed and I’m commenting. Do I get a prize ? You are really helping to convince me that a heat pump could work for us. Currently on oil, which we have never found to be super expensive, but the boiler is now 14 years old and I’m thinking the £7500 grants won’t be around forever so maybe I need to take the money now while I can. Our house is very similar to yours, built 1995 and we have improved the heat retention better windows etc, so I’m now quite confident it will work for us. And I can get rid of my oil tank and extend my garage win win.
Yes, you do get a prize! A warm fuzzy feeling inside that you're supporting a good message! ☺️ Great to hear that you're seeing it's suitable for your home. I agree that the grant won't last forever 👍
I'm on a weather compensation curve so that the colder it gets outside, the higher the flow temperature. Currently it's 12 degrees outside and my flow temperature is 25 degrees. Highest I've ever seen is 44 degree flow temperature.
I have my unit set to 'flow control', as much to see what difference it might make in how the system performs. It currently runs at 34C flow temperature (Daikin 6kW HP), which has kept Livingroom between 19.5C and 22.5C. As the rooms lose or gains heat the flow temperature modulates between 33-36 as compressor and flow rate step up/down output to push the heat required to the radiators.
Keep your boiler and rads, install an air con unit that also produces heat problem solved, plus you get air con for the 6 weeks of extreme UK summer. The End.
OEM would be a luxury but I can't see much point in it to be honest. Vaillant has the flow rate, flow and return temps, compressor speed, power consumption. Most is available through the interface, other bits you can hack into the Vaillant sensors through three different methods. The Vaillant pro app also shows installers a very similar interface to heatpumpmonitor so detecting issues can be straightforward.
@lewis_standing OEM (open energy monitor) data is much more detailed than what you can get from the Vaillant app and more accurate. If you like having accurate, detailed data, and you're prepared to invest the time to understand and act on it, then OEM is worth it. I have a Vaillant Arotherm and OEM. A cheaper alternative is "ebusd" which works on Vaillant's data but you need more IT knowledge to work it.
I considered getting the open energy monitoring, but decided against it as I thought I would spend to much time being geeky rather than just ignoring the heating. Heat pumps, once installed and set up, are the easiest heating to ignore, the house is just kept to a nice warm temperature - it's so much more comfortable than a gas boiler. I do often wonder though if I made the correct decision, in that way gas boilers are much easier, you can improve the efficiency a little, but they are always very inefficient compared to a heat pump. Gas boilers just aren't monitored in the same way as most heat pumps are, I look forward to the day when heat pumps are universal and people just accept the pleasant heating.
Gas boiler is typically £50-£150 cheaper to service. Disconnect the gas supply and you'll save £110 per year in standing charge balancing that out. That's why I omitted these from my calculation.
excellent summary video, I've had mt Octopus survey this week which I have to say was extremely thorough and the engineer was able to answers lots of technical questions I pestered them with. The software came out recommending a 7kw Daikin (heat loss calc at 5.4 just over the cosy 6 threshold) for me so do you have any knowledge of that Heat pump performance being as good/similar to your Vaillant 7kw. Also I recalled one of you previous videos where you 'regretted' not up-sizing your tank so I asked for a 300ltr which they said would be ok. At the moment i am the only occupant of the house but I wanted it appropriate for a family of 4 if I moved. Am I wasting too much money if I heat that size tank unnecessarily on cheap overnight tariff if don't use it every day or will the residual hot water left in the tank when the next tank heat cycle begins mean it costs even less to heat the water on an ongoing basis.
I'm not up to speed with all the Daikin models I'm afraid. There will be people much better placed than me to answer the question. If it's just you and a 300L tank then I would recommend heating it once every 3 days. To get the best efficiency, you want the tank to be as cold as possible when you start heating.
@@UpsideDownFork thanks for the quick reply and the info on the tank as that is completely the opposite of what I would have thought in terms of heating from cold.
@@andyballard1883 It's because the heat pump spends a larger proportion of it's time putting energy into the tank at lower flow temperatures. If you only draw off 50L per day of hot water, the heat pump has to ramp right up to a very high output every cycle. If you drain 250L down then you will spend more than half of the cycle at efficient low flow temps.
so apart from moving the heat pump from its original position, having a hot water cylinder that was too small!, is there anything else you would change about this brilliant set up?😂
My biggest sticking point at the minute is the complete change over, from old system to new, my old 90's boiler still running like a top. Think I would also need a change over on the power showing and install a thermostatic? At which point the only gas appliance in the property is the hob so may as well get an electric hob and save on the standing charge (£102/£103 per year) so go completely electric?
@@ZanderKaneUK that's exactly what we did. Videos of each of these steps are on my channel if you want some more viewing material. I also understand if you're sick of me after this video 😂
"The neighbour is out talking to his heat pump again"
😂 are you my neighbour?
But without the govt grant, it would be unaffordable.
And it is not govt money,...it comes from our taxes...which should be used for pensioner fuel allowance and cancer treatment/operations....
and many other vital spending matters.
Cool, we should let the kids freeze and starve though, shouldn't we?
Check out the figures of children Vs pensioners living in poverty.
Anyway, when did this become a debate about taxes and the use of those taxes.
The BUS grant isn't even a footnote in the government's overall budget. Barely a speck compared to the domestic oil and gas industry subsidies and peanuts compared to the emissions fines if we don't crack on and meet targets.
The reason heat pumps are only marginally more affordable to run in this country compared to our European neighbours is due to our spark gap.
Us people with large electricity bills are the ones now subsidising those gas consumers.
Once that spark gap closes, gas prices will increase and electricity will decrease, making the switch a no brainer.
Finally, I've paid way more than my fair share of tax for the last 22 years and because of means testing I've never been eligible for a single penny of government assistance. Why should pensioners get any more say in how taxes are spent than I do? Thanks for making this into part of the culture wars.
Many people utilising the BUS grant pay more tax in one year than the £7.5k they receive back.
Sorry, you clearly hit a nerve...
@@UpsideDownFork If children are in ''poverty'' then that is the fault of the parents, too often a single mother.
The latter seemingly unable to put 15p's worth of breakfast cereal into their child's tummies before they set off for school.
Do not blame a thing called ''society''.
Pre-1997, Blair pledged to tackle ''poverty'' but we ended up with Benefits Britain and colossal welfare dependency,...brilliantly exemplified by Channel 4's Shameless TV series at that time.
Evil Blair must have hated it.
@@UpsideDownFork Without subsidies, no-one would ever buy these monstrosities.
They are a solution to a problem that does not exist.
Climate alarmists are forever trying to put the willies up us. Most of us rightly treat them with the contempt they richly deserve.
@@ByJimineeItsBREXIT-z2k
Oh deary me, you're taking a fictitious comedy TV series as evidence to back up your politics ?
Perhaps you support the Scottish government who will be restoring Winter fuel payments to pensioners next winter, as the process has just been devolved to them ?
As an aside, most UK benefits are paid to low salary workers; essentially taxpayers funding profits of companies that give little value to their employees.
The pensioners when they were working should have spent their money wisely and not on stupid holidays fags or booze but providing for their futures.If they ate well and avoided bad health habits they would have reduced their risk of cancer. subsidising installation of low carbon technology is an investment not consumption and gives a return for humanity. The old are not worth the effort, I should know Ian 70.
It’s great to see a fairly bog standard installation from a supplier like British Gas performing so well. Much as I enjoy seeing beautifully designed and executed systems running underfloor heating on an open loop, the majority of installations will be more like yours. It shows that you can have hydraulic separation and still have a SCOP of 4 plus.
Thanks! That's what I'm aiming for here. Showing that you don't need to remortgage your house to get a great heating system!
Agree. The more research and videos I watch I've realised you need a valiant heat pump (possibly a viesmann too) and a bog standard install will deliver a decent scop.
You couldn't have got the comedic timing on the dog when you asked the heat pump if you tried 😂
Good info, loved the idea of whispering so everyone could hear how “Loud” the heat pump really is. More info on how you tweaked the curve would be good
@@JonathanTracey ua-cam.com/video/Ks55Hi2O81I/v-deo.html
You'll have to adapt the exact controls for your Daikin but the principles are the same for both. 👍
Haha, very funny.
It'll be interesting to see how many people take it seriously. After all, what a silly man using a spanner as a microphone, of course we won't be able to hear anything 🤦🙄
Thanks for all your videos. It's so refreshing to gets the facts and actual experiences rather than the channels bursting at the seams with FUD.
Both my dogs started barking when that dog barked on the video. Not until I had let them out the front door were they satisfied the danger had gone away
I got a new combi boiler for a 4 bedroom Bungalow and it only cost £1400 to buy and install and it is brilliant
Thanks!
how old was your previous one ?
I’ve just been quoted £3200 for a heat pump from Octopus, including all necessary radiator upgrades, and a new hot water cylinder. So only £1800 more than yours. If the savings are as suggested, payback would be about 4 years.
I have a Mitsubishi heat pump , been installed almost 4 years.
When the weather is cold the heat from it is as good as useless.
@@Petrolhead912 Our work Toshiba is 7 years old and is great , saving us a fortune over the storage heaters it replaced.
Love the whispering in front of the heat pump. Great way of demonstrating the noise!
Thanks! 😊
It’s a different question for someone who doesn’t play around with the settings and has no idea how to e.g. the average consumer. “is a heat pump any good” has a different answer for those depending on what happens depending on a range of complex factors. I’m (broadly) happy with mine but the savings are marginal at best if there will be any and it’s been a lot of hassle along the way.
That's disappointing. Sounds like the design, the installation or the commissioning wasn't great.
I have to agree that the controls have a lot of room for improvement.
@@ChidleyEngineeringsadly I cannot post pictures as my *original* install would blow your mind.
The current gen of Vaillant software, while capable, is pretty noddy. With machine learning and better design it could be constantly tweaking and optimising itself in the background. That would take some pressure off installers to get it right first time, and off homeowners trying to wrap their head around the science. Some of the heat pump start ups eg. AIRA seem to be promising things like this. No idea whether it's actually true or whether it's just AI marketing guff (these days everyone seems to be slapping an AI sticker on anything in the hope it will help sell it). It would be very cool if Vaillant came out with some new controls that utilised cloud-based collective learning to help gather usage data and improve future designs and efficiency... just like self driving cars. MyVaillant Connect seems to hint that might be the way they're going...
2nd winter with ours and we're really dialling in the settings now. It's by far the best heating system I've ever experienced. People visiting notice it as well - not too hot, never too cold. Just right.
Amen! A great summary!
Great video. Thanks for all your videos. I've learnt lots from you. Hopefully getting my heat pump installed very soon.
Good luck!
I have to admit I dont have a clue about my heat pump. In Scotland we were given a heat pump&,radiators. Hot tank & attic insulation for nothing so I assumed I was on a winner. I feel my bills are less, I have a new system including 6 solar panels. We were off the gas grid so we qualified for everything. First time in my life I have cosy house. Dogs love it.❤️
Great to hear! 😊 All cosy is all good!
I admire you're patience and tenancy dealing with so many trolls and people who havent got the faintest clue what they are talking about, but think they have a 'gotcha'.
The bitterness towards more climate friendly technology solutions like heatpumps and EVs is utterly bizarre.
@@AlanTov thanks for your support.
People are welcome to their opinions but sharing them as fact does wind me up.
Also, why is this such a controversial political issue? 🤔
@@UpsideDownForkit's (wrongly) seen as a lefty, liberal thing which causes some people to foam at the mouth. Quite a few of them are also climate change deniers if you scratch the surface.
I personally want to try and help leave a better future for my kids. Affordably.
Keep up the great work!
Well, I've have had both an EV and a heat pump system. The car was a complete pain in the bum to live with and then also developed a fault that meant it required a new battery pack, which by the time the car was a few years old cost more than the car was worth! That meant it was a total loss and by the time I factored in the price when new I worked out I'd actually lost several thousand pounds! Long story short I now drive a diesel again!
The heat pump also a false economy, anyone who claims they're saving thousands a year on heating is a total lier! They absolutely do not, I was saving about £50 per month in the peak summer months, in the winter it was gobbling electricity at a horrendous rate and cost a fortune! I worked out that I wasn't any better off really and the cost of having installed wouldn't be offset for nearly a decade in real terms, by which time any breakdowns would not be covered and were likely to be very expensive to have fixed! As luck would have it next doors tree fell across our garden and damaged it beyond repair. Back on gas now and I'm much happier for it! 😊
@@Altair885Which EV and which heat pump did you have?
Thanks for calling me a liar.
I once choked on a carrot. That means no one should ever eat carrot. Catch my drift?
@@UpsideDownFork Nissan eNV 200 people carrier version. Heat pump was a Fujitsu, not sure which model without checking.
I am sorry for what seems like strong language but I fail to see how it is that some people claim to be saving all this money when both my own experience, and that of others I know personally does not equate to that same result. The only conclusion that I come to is what they are claiming is false!
We had our HP checked several times by different people to ensure its effectiveness. We were told it had optimal positioning and functionality but it was just the inclement weather and similar factors to blame! In effect what it actually became was an electric heater, and a very inefficient one at that! In the colder months the combi works out far cheaper to run.
The running cost is only slightly better than a modern gas boiler as gas is 4 times cheaper than electricity. Until that changes the uptake of heat pumps will be low.
Agreed. The spark gap will close. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
Another rubbish video about heat pumps. Reality is that capital expenditure to buy heat pump is many times higher than buying equivalent boiler. This guy quotes about cost of boiler for his house are just blatant lies. Even in London you can get gas boiler installed for £3k. How does he think his heat pump subsidy is financed? By putting surcharges on people with gas boilers, so some parasites like him can virtue signal.
I have no problem with people choosing whatever technology they want. But without expecting the rest of society, many much poorer than green idiots, to subsidise their life choices.
Heat pumps are the same con as electric cars. If you exclude 75% tax on petrol, EV are more expensive to run even charged at home. If you charged them on the street at 80p kwh, there are at least 3 times more expensive to run.
Soon reality of green lies will be obvious to most people, apart from woke clowns with degrees in gender studies.
@@UpsideDownFork Will the spark gap ever close? And why? Surely as electricity demand increases and gas demand decreases, market forces will make gas cheaper and electricity more costly. Until the Government move the Green Levy to gas instead of electricity, and that's not going to happen anytime soon, I predict the spark gap will increase. After all, it has increased from 3.2 to 4.1 in the 2 years since Q4 2022. And in that time our electricity has increased to 100% wind and hydro, but the spark gap continues to increase.
@MrMannakin I see going off grid for gas and saving the standing charge a win.
But I guess you also need electric oven and hob which I do.
Annual servicing cost difference? Expected replacement parts difference? Life expectancy difference? These costs are always left out.
@@JP-wo4icAnd most home emergency insurance exclude heat pumps.
Servicing? Average £50-100 more than gas boiler.
Deduct £109 for annual gas standing charge and we're even.
Plenty of people claiming that a well maintained ASHP will outlast a well maintained boiler by 5-10 years easily, time will tell on that one.
@@JP-wo4ic supply and demand I guess. Like you say, will probably self rectify in time.
Personally I will have it serviced to retain warranty and then I'll do it myself.
@@UpsideDownForkyou can only take the gas standing charge into account if you’re replacing everything in your house that uses gas. I’ve got a gas fire and gas hob as well, so replacing or at least removing in the case of the fire, will be another few grand. Plus I’ll lose the backup source of heat when the HP breaks down. It’s never straight forward.
@@farab4391 I'm not sure if you are trolling or not. Induction hobs are the way forward. Easy to cook on, easy to clean, way more efficient and not polluting the air in your home.
If you are concerned about a backup heat source, you can have immersion elements fitted to a heat pump for a worst case scenario.
I'll let you know in 10 years time if we could have used one.
I've had air/air heat pumps in two homes and they are great provided the only energy source you have is electricity but if you have access to mains gas don't even think about a heat pump as they let you down when you most need them as the temperature falls below around 5 DegC. At that temperature they have to start defrosting the external heat exchanger and the efficiency plummets along with the heat they can pick up. My brother has a super-efficient oversized Daiken unit installed in a super insulated home and even that struggles to keep the place warm so he uses a wood stove to top up the heat levels. Maybe in drier climates they can work but in the w
damp British climate the defrosting effort they have to go through kills their efficiency stone dead just when you need it to be efficient.
My COP remains around 3 on those cold days when defrost cycles are required. I shared a lot of data around this last winter which you can find on the channel.
Correct sizing is very important.
Air to air heat pumps do not tend to be properly calculated in the same way that air to water heat pumps are with proper room by room heat loss calculations.
But the real reason that air to air heat pumps tend to not work as well in the colder weather is how you are running the system. They have to be on low and slow when the weather gets cold.
I can only surmise that your brother also has a sizing or operating issue. Low and slow is the key.
Well done Ricky. Very concise and informative report detailing all the facts. Data is king and even the sceptics will have a job arguing with this one. Thanks for taking the time and effort to share your heat pump experience.
Don't have the space in my house for hot water cylinder and nigh on impossible to run the extra associated pipework, However I do have 3.6kw solar and 15kw battery setup. Also have new Vaillant Ecotec 826 Combi with external weather sensor. My electricity export tariff for excess solar generated will pay for my gas bill through winter. Based on this and even if I could install a heat pump at the prices I was quoted for my situation it would likely take me about 30 years to break even. By that time I will be pushing up daisy's :)
The break even will come down significantly when we get more renewables on the grid, as electricity prices will drop relative to gas. Also, the gas main will be shut off at some point, so a heat pump will need to be fitted then, better to get it while we have the BUS grant.
However, the main difference is the environment, fitting a heat pump will do far more for the environment (far more) than anything you can do with solar panels etc. If your only consideration is money then it's a more difficult decision, but if you care about the environment then it's a no-brainer.
I appreciate not everyone has the ideal situation like I do.
@@MentalLentil-ev9jr ....I can't imagine the gas main ever being turned off in this century....if it's good enough for generating electricity it's good enough for home heating....who is going to pay for heat pump installation for the 2.3 million out of work and not seeking work brigade, not to mention all the pensioners with little savings and all the social housing tenants, don't think the local authorities have the money and according to Starmer and Co the country has no spare money....I have solar and a battery and will soon be buying an EV but I shall stick to the instant and controllable heat from my gas boiler.
@@jeffgraham6387 We must turn off the gas supply, continually using a fossil fuel like gas for heating condemns future generations.
When the grid is running entirely off of renewables and nuclear then electricity will become comparable in price to gas. Heat pumps even just directly replacing boilers with a heat pump and running at a high temperature will be much cheaper than gas, it's only the way gas prices are kept artificially low and electricity artificially high that make gas boilers even remotely viable.
Solar and battery are a pretty pathetic way to help lower carbon compared to heat pumps, not totally useless (I have solar and will get battery) but a small advance and not enough. They are however a relatively easy way to save money with so a good investment if money is your main object, I'd rather be able to look my grandchildren in the eye.
@@jeffgraham6387
"I can't imagine the gas main ever being turned off in this century"
=====
There will come a point when it becomes unaffordable with UK currently importing almost half its gas from Norway, and UK fields shutting down as they run dry.
I think it all depends on your individual situation. We had our 30 year old boiler replaced 2 years ago with a very efficient Worcester Bosch condensing boiler, it was an easy install in the same place as the old boiler, also we had extra pipework and extra radiator fitted, plus a new 3-way valve next to the pump and new controller. All this cost £2700 and has resulted in about a 20% reduction in gas use. Servicing is £60 annually. Our house is a 60 year old 4 bed semi so not as well insulated as a modern place. Having had this upgrade not long ago it would not make sense to rip it out and spend a bunch more for at least several years.
I appreciate that not everyone will have an ideal situation like mine unfortunately.
I've just changed over to a heat pump from a relatively modern combi. The benefits are that the house is warmer, quieter, I'm paying much less annually and it will pay for itself eventually.
But it is a large cash outlay and I'd recommend an upgrade when changing a boiler or some other major renovation work. To get the benefits you will probably need to change many radiators, perhaps some pipework and need to find space outside for "boiler". This can be disruptive.
@@ChidleyEngineering I agree. We would also need 4 or 5 rads changing as they are rather old inefficient types.
@@JP-wo4ic Weather compensation is something to look into next, but can I get it for my Worcester Bosch boiler?
@@JP-wo4ic Definitely upgrade to better controls, including weather compensation. Worth it whatever heat source you use.
My Daikin heat pump is fantastic. Runs for years without servicing or gas safety inspection. It just works and it's cheap coz I insulated my house. And it cools my house in summer. And it cannot explode, gas is dangerous and blows buildings apart.
@@alexco5881 thanks! 👍
This is my first year with a heat pump. So far I agree with all your points (cheaper to install, cheaper to run etc) the only negative I can think of is will the heat pump last as long as my boiler lasted (28yrs) although many people have told me new boilers will only last about 15 years. My Dakin heat pump has a 7 year warranty as long as I pay for the servicing so I’ll worry about it in 8 years 🤣 I guess it will be pretty simple to swap a heat pump for a new one.
Yes, some people say heat pumps are longer lasting than modern condensing boilers but time will tell on that claim!
and when it needs replacing in the next 10 years, you’ll be covering the whole of the £12,500 yourself. Any savings you’ve made up to then will effectively be less than nothing.
Most of the £12.5k cost is in system i.e. radiator, pipework, cylinder upgrades etc.
When the heat pump itself needs replacing in 20 years, it will be approx £2k.
@ I hope so, but I strongly doubt it. Nothing made from thin metal lasts for 20 years outside in the UK weather. My gas boiler just made 20 years and that’s only because it’s in a dry garage. £2k is definitely underestimated.
@@farab4391 Plenty of 2004 cars on the road with zero corrosion. I've felt the casings for the Vaillant heat pump and the gauge of metal used is thicker than car panels.
You can buy a heat pump for £2k retail from public places like screwfix. Trade accounts can get you a Samsung heat pump for less than £1k. Google is your friend.
Great and entertaining video. My gas boiler is playing up. If it needs replacing I will def consider a heat pump. The only issue is finding a place for the hot water cylinder. Current gas boiler is a combi
Great point! If you're coming from a combi then you need to consider making a cupboard inside the house or externally and in some cases, the loft.
Good luck!
Can you put a small hot water tank where the boiler is at the moment?
There are tall skinny tanks. Horizontal tanks for the eaves. Heat geek offer a mini tank to fit in a kitchen cupboard size. And sunamp do heat batteries that can replace a hot water tank. Just something to look at.
@@robinbennett5994 there are a few options. Where the boiler is in the kitchen, a coat cupboard in the hall with the bathroom shower directly behind (but shallow) and a first floor “airing” cupboard (with a sloping ceiling). All would cost a bit of storage but manageable
@@joewentworth7856 I’m sure there’s a workable solution I have some long storage areas in the eaves in addition to the areas mentioned in my other reply. Good idea getting a tank to fit in there😀
Good vid as ever. Made some changes to my HP from your vids that has increased my COP. Wouldn’t change my heat pump for anything!
Thanks for commenting!
Like the whisper presentation intro, amusing & informative. I recently increased the high temperature on profile from 40 to 48 degrees as house was hovering a degree or so below my 20-21 degree home preferred temperature. That only became noticeable on -3 to 1 degree days we had. Still tweaking settings/learning as 1st full Winter now. Interestingly though worst cold days it’s still costing way less than when we had gas boiler. Which is surprising as assumed these might be the few days which cost more. Octopus tariff to rescue perhaps?
Great! Thanks for sharing.
I'm at the beginning of my journey. My current system is much as yours was - 30 year old Ideal Classic. I've had an Octopus survey and am awaiting next steps having accepted. I remain a little apprehensive even though my head tells me all will be well.
I was also extremely apprehensive. Especially as I have a wife that feels the cold and 3 kids running around.
Part of the reason I wanted to document and share this experience is that it works and it works really well!
I was a bit worried about the noise levels before my install so after it was done in July I ran a hot water heat up in the middle of the day to have a listen. Thought it wasn't working. 😂
Ditto!
Exactly that, they are quiet.
I am getting a survey done in the new year. Concerned about possible bigger radiators needed in my 7 year old house. I have dialled down the flow temperature on our Combi boiler to 45º and am sat here sweltering.
@@neilmcbrideart fingers crossed.
It's 5.7 degrees outside here and flow temperature of 33 degrees keeping us at 20.5 degrees inside. 👍
I paid £1500 for my heat pump on top of the gov grant. I’m saving well over £100 every month vs my previous heating system. It’s superb!
Thanks for sharing!
For info , I have two 11kw Mitsubishi r32 ecodans just commissioned .
They have been set on constant , there are no thermostats currently in the house , at a flow temperature of 25 degrees .
Overnight with nothing else at all on in the house as the board is turned off , plant room is separate to house , the two pumps used an average of 1.3723 kw per hour , outside temperature at night was mild at 9 degrees .
That’s over three floors about 430 square metres , ground has underfloor heating the other two floors have 15 K3 rads with valves all set to max , with a total output at T50 of 40346 watts .
So they are barely luke warm in operation .
On entry first thing when there have been no occupants overnight the house is very warm , too warm if you are physically doing something ,probably very comfortable if sedentary .
It demonstrates to me that it’s the insulation all over and windows that are the key factors to pour your resources into if you believe you are staying somewhere for years .
What it also tells me is that with the costs of insulation and all the kit on top it’s not an economic proposition , it will make your house more comfortable and your ongoing costs can be minimal , but as return on capital , ouch . As a green contribution good , although you could argue about the resources that went into all the products however if viewed over a buildings lifetime then the argument becomes mute .
@@pmbpmb5416 thanks for sharing!
Great Video, next year it would be great to see the total cost of your all electric house. Heating, Hot Water and miles in your electric car. EVM does it and it is always amazing how little it costs to run a fully electric house
Will do!
@UpsideDownFork look forward to it!
Work out how much less energy is used , the efficiency is impressive. We ditched 12500 kwh of gas and nearly 40000 kwh equivalent of petrol and diesel.
Boomer here. Can remember the power cuts in the 70s and would never go all electric. Always had a gas hob and a gas or wood fire to back up the combi which is dead in a power cut.
@@mikeonfreeserve2926 lived in this area for 14 years and never had a power cut. In my previous town we had 2 power cuts in 10 years. I'm not worrying, but can you send me your address in case we get desperate?
Love the video.
I have a Mitsubishi 11.2kW unit, the whole system was £15k 4 years ago but only about £3k to us after 7 years of RHI. And fair, having to find £15k up front was not easy, and the amount of carbon saving we're doing on the government's behalf is only fair (since they can continue to burn gas in CCGT & ship woodchip across the atlantic), especially since we also have loads of PV & a battery.
In this £15k we had a removal of our crusty ant-infested back boiler, 11 new rads, an extra floor plumbed in, horizontal tank shoehorned into the loft, heatpump high mounted above a ground floor extension.
Massive amount of space back, no garden sacrifices, and after a bif of tinkering later it's now giving us whole house cooling in the summer too (courtesty of aftermarket fancoils) and is cheaper to run that gas was as well.
People comparing this to a £1500 combi are mad, it's like comparing a ford fiesta to an S class Merc, totally different things.
One small point to make though, Vaillant are a bit naughty with their COP calculation: they roll the consumed energy into the produced energy as well, so their COPs are slightly inflated compared to the simple standard COP measurement. Standard COP: energy out/energy in. Vaillant COP: (energy in+energy out)/energy in.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
On the Vaillant COP issue.
They show Electricity Consumption, Environmental Yield & Heat Generated.
Most other companies don't present the "environmental yield" data.
All companies are calculating their COP in the same way though, just different terminology.
Here's an example.
233.3kWh Heat generated
175.9kWh Environmental yield
67.5kWh Electricity consumed.
Electricity + Environmental yield does not = Heat generated because they do factor in the external losses. As you can see in this case, they calculate (more accurately - estimate) a loss of 10kWh.
Hope that makes sense!
I have had my heat pump since September 2024. Installation week was a challenge because I had 12 new radiators fitted and nearly every room in the house was affected BUT it was worth it. I am so impressed with it. The whole house has a full through warmth. It has completely surpassed my expectations and it is working out cheaper than my gas boiler. It cost £2900 + BUS grant. What is not to like.
This is what we need to share with others! Thanks for commenting.
If you live in a 10th floor flat explain frauditor
And redecoration costs? In the days when houses were heated by coal fires or stand alone gas and electric heaters many householders chose to install central heating systems. They did this at their own expense, there were no subsidies. Why should heat pumps be different?
@BrianSmith-ow9gy that's not entirely accurate.
From 1968 onwards there were numerous government programs to push things forwards, some of that was conversion from town gas to "natural" gas. Adjust for inflation and that cost the tax payer 100 times what the BUS grant does.
Once the coal miners strike and OPEC driven oil crisis hit, the government at that time did offer some support for those moving away from goal or oil towards gas.
There's some good reading to be had on the OBR or the rapid transition alliance websites 👍
@@UpsideDownFork
Nut job
When gas boilers were first introduced, people weren't obsessed with the cost, so why is everyone overly obsessed with the cost of heat pumps when the benefits are ao obviously positive. Great video. Thanks
Thanks.
Good question!
This is my first winter using the Vaillant Arotherm 5k. It has a SCOP of 4.4, which drops to 3.3 when the temperature falls to 5C or below, due to the defrost cycles. It seems Vaillant units don't manage these cycles as well as some other brands. Even at 3.3 my heating/hot water costs are still cheaper than when using gas. I'm so happy with the change over from a relatively new combi boiler. My house is warmer and quieter.
I've switched to the Cosy tariff from Agile, and this is when my battery proves helpful. With three low-cost periods and a 10kWh usable battery capacity, I almost never use peak electricity. My average cost is about 13p a unit since the switch and was up to 19p in the early part of October when I was still on Agile, what are your costs?
Why do you believe that Vaillant struggles with defrost compared to others?
As long as you have sufficient system volume then it works really well.
@@UpsideDownFork I have looked at my data more closely. It seems like I get a straight line relationship between COP and outside temp. DHW is worse than space heating because of the higher temperatures.
Other heat pumps seem to perform better a lower temperatures
@@ChidleyEngineering I've noticed that Viessman do really well with defrosts and supposedly Ebac handle it in the same way. But otherwise I can't split the difference between the R290 heat pumps in performance.
The cop doesn't sound much different, I have the Daikin 6kW (R32) and at 5C external COP was @ 3.5 and at -3C was COP 2.9, I'm working with flow control @ 34C (or 36 at times) 24/7 for now, rather than weather compensation.
What I have seen however is that lower demand produces fewer defrost cycles. My unit performed about eight over the coldest 24 hour period last week.
My average energy use was 960 Watts per hour over coldest 24 hour period here (N.E Scotland) where ten hours was between -2C and -3C.
This compares to 400W/h when at 10C or above externally (for 34C flow), and COP of 4.3, and higher as temperature rises.
@@_Dougaldog In contrast, my heat pump defrosted 28 times on my coldest day (1.8C). Obviously defrosting is driven by the amount of water in the air, and NE Scotland at -2C I expect is dryer than London at 2C. Having said that, I'm driving my heat pump really hard. I averaged 5.3kW output, 34C flow, from a 5kW heat pump that day. I'll be within the 6.4kW maximum output, according to the manufacturer's data, at the -3C design temperature.
I designed and installed the system knowing that I'd be driving it like this. Partly as an experiment to see if I could design and install it correctly (I use radiators only, no underfloor heating) but mostly because I plan to upgrade the roof of my conservatory. Replacing that roof will cut my peak heat demand by 1kW. Glass roofs are terrible.
Good result for an older less efficient house, our new house of 310m uses the same Heat Pump.
Thanks for commenting!
We run a firewood business and several of our customers have gone down the air source heat pump. What we have noticed is they still buy the same amount of firewood of us. They say it’s just not warm enough were they sit.
O
K
If they're sitting outside, then there's your problem.
@@BenIsInSweden 🤣
This would of course be the thing a firewood seller would say 😂
@@UpsideDownFork Because they want to kill themselves and their neighbours?
Love mine, perfect heat and much cheaper than my old boiler
@@judithgarner6126 excellent!
I have a heat pump since end 2022. arround 2500kwh per year for 23 degree on 200sqm. It was also cheaper than replacing the old woodgas heater due to „new“ (new phase of a law from 2011) regulations for fine particles).
Yes!
Thanks for the update. Got an install booked in early March so can't wait to get started with the Vaillant heat pump along with my solar and battery.
Nice 👍
We don’t need the tank.
@@WilliamLaverick-wo1nb Infantry tank, cruiser tank or battle tank?
And the installation and equipment shouldn't even cost what you're quoting. I can buy an 8kW heat pump for under 2k Euro, and installation here in Finland is no where near what you guys pay there...
Exactly. A Vaillant Arotherm 5k is £3.5k here and the installation costs are massive in the UK. This will get cheaper as more heat pumps are installed.
Can you buy the Vaillant Arotherm plus for £2k euro?
@@UpsideDownFork No, but there is more than one brand out there.
@@PurpleAlienPlanet I can go and buy a 8kW heat pump tomorrow for less than £2k. Samsungs are available at that price from retail sites. The total price is an accumulation of hundreds, literally hundreds of parts.
I've totalled up my system with a trade account and it is more than £13k+vat once you factor in the complete list of pump, cylinder, controls, valves, pump, expansion vessels, pipework, lagging, base, electrical etc etc.
Then you factor in a team of 4-5 guys over 6 full days. Average day rate for a tradesmen these days is £350. That's £10,500 in labour.
I don't buy into this narrative that the tradesmen are ripping us off or anything like that.
Once all UK homes are retrofitted up to a decent standard for heat pumps, the next time it comes to replacement it will be incredibly cheap.
@@UpsideDownFork Are you going to show us your trade account calculations? I highly doubt your system cost £13K plus VAT for the equipment.
I had my heat pump installed January 11th 2024
So I’ve nearly had it in for 1 year.
Here are my stats.
2023 gas costs for heating & hot water £1100
2024 costs to date £345 for heating & hot water on ovo energy tariff 15p for heating & hot water.
This is what I can report to date, on January 11th 2025 I can give a full years cost.
I’m extremely happy with my heat pump, mine has been correctly designed & installed.
I have a valiant 7kw heat pump in a 4 bed detached property
Great stuff!
Funny you never hear people ask if air conditioning will work on hot weather. A small amount of knowledge can lead you astray,
And on January 13, 1920, the New York Times published an editorial insisting that a rocket couldn't possibly work in space:
"That professor Goddard, with his 'chair' in Clark College and the countenancing of the Smithsonian Institution [from which Goddard held a grant to research rocket flight], does not know the relation of action to reaction, and of the need to have something better than a vacuum against which to react -- to say that would be absurd. Of course he only seems to lack the knowledge ladled out daily in high schools."
In 1968 NY Times wrote:
"Further investigation and experimentation have confirmed the findings of Isaac Newton in the 17th century, and it is now definitely established that a rocket can function in a vacuum as well as in an atmosphere," the Times editors wrote. They added, "The Times regrets the error."
(Forbes article Jul 20, 2018)
Great comment!
During the most humid times of the year Florida restricts electricity supply via software in smart meters because the grid cannot supply enough electricity. Like you say - a small amount of knowledge can lead you astray.
@@nochops1781that's not enforced, it's voluntary, and there's typically some financial reward for taking part.
@@UpsideDownFork Also applies to the laws of thermodynamics. Claiming any machine can produce more energy than it consumes is as silly as the 1920 NYT article.
@@BrianSmith-ow9gy just as I shared on another one of your comments...
A heat pump moves energy.
It transfers energy from the outside air to the internal air inside the building.
The same as a solar panel transferring energy.
You likely already own multiple heat pumps. Your fridge, the AC in your car are just two examples.
No one is claiming to break any laws of thermodynamics.
In fact, vapour compression technology is built upon the fundamental principles of thermodynamics and has been an effective method of transferring heat energy for many decades.
I had my gas boiler removed last May and replaced with a 7kW Vaillant aroTHERM air source heat pump
The system is performing very well and my house temperature is far more consistent and comfortable and cheaper to run, I don’t have the figures for a full winter yet but my gas bill for heating for October 2023 with our old boiler was £102, (including standing charge on the meter) my electricity cost to run my heat pump for October 24 was a mere £20, my gas bill for November 2023 was £149, my heat pump running cost for November 2024 was £34.00, that’s an 80% reduction in my heating costs.
3 bed extended semi in Berkshire, running at 22.5 degrees 24/7, with an average COP of 4.5, Intelligent Octopus Go EV tariff @ 7p/kWh. A 20kWh home storage battery enables me to time shift 97% of my household electricity consumption to the cheap tariff.
Removing my gas meter saves me an additional £115 per year
Absolutely brilliant!
Have followed your journey - I have solar and a battery now, 2 heat pump surveys in next 2 weeks - BG and Octopus. You are an expensive man to follow and have cost me more than when I watch MKBHD videos!
That is awesome! Please let me know how it goes for you.
I am in very early stages of following your setup as well, got two solar + battery/just battery consultations in the next 4 weeks, plus one of the two will assess if a heat pump will work in my property.
Found out my rafters are the cheaper option, so solar might be too heavy for them so I'd need to reinforce the rafters if I wanted to put solar panels on.
Also, main roof is 45° NE facing, so really not sure if it's worth it for the output, high summer, look little in the winter when I actually need it!
Last thing, Octopus better hurry up and install my smart meter, 4 no show appointments now, until I have that fitted and understand our daily /mthly usage patterns, battery size and solar cannot be guessed, so I am just getting quotes for now.
Excellent video, comedy gold from the dog! Keep it up
Spend money to save money 😂 great
Have Solar and a battery, hopefully heat pump coming next year, thanks to encouragement from channels like yours
@gillscorner794 😂
Excellent SCOP. I get a similar with my Daikin ASHP. Good work with the calculation
@@juliandclarke thanks! 👍
Heat pumps are in widespread use in Norway. Nuff said.
Yes sir!
What's price per kWh of electricity in Norway?
@@johnj4860 The best answer I can give you, is google it. It will vary depending on where in Norway you are.
In Norway the houses are better insulated, a big factor for old houses retro fitting in the UK, also there are over 11 times as many people in the UK and the heat pump changeover is scheduled by the UK government to be done by 2035, needless to say price gouging is in force due to a forced take up rather than an economic one, the UK is currently installing less than half of the required heat pumps by 2028 and this figure is "supposed" to more than double from 2028 to 2035, there is no economic reason for over 50% of older houses in the UK to change, better to spend money on internal wall insulation and keep gas, installing solar/ battery/ insulation/ heat pump is £30,000 on average. Ditto with Network Grid and EV's infrastructure is not in place but the government wants the changeover to happen anyway and the figures are not being met at present, there is no way they can be met in the future. I want renewable because that is Europe's way of becoming energy independent, however stopping carbon energy which we have "some" of to import from other sometimes unfriendly countries is rather foolish, and our implementation of renewable energy is not driven by economics but by ideology this will not work, horses and carriages were changed to ice vehicles as they became far cheaper and more convenient, currently EVs are not cheap at all, they can be imported from China at lesser cost but not as cheap as ice vehicles but that brings in a whole load of different problems of dependency like with Russian energy, it's not going well!?!
@@TomTomicMic
Made perfect economic sense for me to change out my 17 Y/O defunct boiler driving seven 40 Y/O radiators and a 60 Y/O HWC.
Smart new highly efficient HP, shiny new well sized radiators, all new 28mm feed & 15mm tee copper pipes, shiny new Mixergy smart HWC, and all for under £4k.
And a 14p/kWh 24/7 HP electricity Tariff, what's not to like....
And regarding EV's, you can pick up a decent three year old for £10-22k (£22k or less for a Tesla) with up to 4/5 year warranty, and lees than 2p per mile to run....
Makes perfect economic sense, and as an aside will reduce lung and cardiovascular diseases in UK.
Thanks for this video. It’s the first time the numbers have made sense to me, and they seem the right numbers, all are plausible to me. You’ve not massaged the consumption or the savings. Even when the cost of electricity is well above three times the cost of gas per kWh it still makes sense. Well done. In a new build it makes perfect sense, it would be careless to do anything else.
Thank you. I really tried hard in this video not to wear my rose tinted glasses and not to factor in my "free" solar panel energy etc etc.
Glad it landed correctly.
A good observation on the TRUE cost of upgrading your old gas boiler to a modern unvented new gas boiler system. Potentially makes the heat pump the cheaper install.
Well said!
Only because of the disgusting tax payer funded subsides.
@@nochops1781 someone is bitter....
The saving was only £64/Yr compared to a modern combi boiler on price cap tariffs. (£652 v £716) Thanks for point out that's the best saving most people in the country could expect to make!
Yes, if your boiler is well sized, modulates properly and has decent controls then it will reach an efficiency of 90%. Nearly all of them don't though.
£64 x 15 years = £960. Save £107 per year on gas standing charges.
But for me the real benefits aren't financial, even though that's all anyone ever asks about
The house is warmer but critically way more comfortable. Always a nice temperature. Every room is now even with no hot and cold spots anywhere in the house.
Absolutely brilliant and I'd happily pay a financial premium for a system that feels like this.
Air quality is also better without burning stuff.
It still actually costs more than 12k to install. The British tax payer is providing the discount.
Yes, yes I am providing the discount as my wife and I both pay our fair share of tax.
I think of it more as a tax rebate for all the taxes I paid over the years, and continue to do so into retirement.
Where I object is the tax exemptions given to those fossil companies who pollute my environment. Some of whom have paid little in way of corporation taxes to UK economy in years.
Or the 45% taxes for excess profit on renewable and nuclear electricity generation, against 30% on excess gas profit.
@@UpsideDownFork No you aren't, because what you pay in taxes has to cover everything governments spend money on.
@@davidscott3292
In the financial year that this was installed, the BUS grant was 0.0065 percent of total public spending.
So if you earned £50k and paid £10,000 tax last year, the BUS grant got 65p of that. Thanks. Now divide that 65p that a £50k earner has put into the BUS grant by the number of installations in that year - 48,900. That means I got 0.001 pence from a £50k earner to subsidise my home upgrade.
@@UpsideDownFork oh that must have stung him!
The installers who came to my house wanted 1/3rd of garage to install pipes and various tanks etc. They also werent keen to fit the unit outside by our boundary fence with neighbours. They couldn't give me any guarantees that our house would be warmer/cooler. Finally they said they needed to fit much wider radiators and new pipework (that had been laid in 2012).
Always worth getting multiple quotes for significant building work like that.
So if, like us, you have a modern 90% efficient gas boiler, the payback period on an ASHP is likely to be more than 40 years. Annual saving of £64 vs cost of £4000. With electricity costing over 4x that of gas.
Why do people have to think about payback period? Would you think the same if you were replacing your boiler, double glazing , new kitchen etc. Adding these items improves your home, i just don't get this obsession that everything has to have a payback period or we don't buy them.
@JP-wo4ic We run weather compensated max 55C, but typically around 45C. I'd like to put an ASHP in, as we had one at our previous house, but the installed cost and cheap gas vs expensive electricity make it uneconomical.
It's a shame we still have the huge spark gap. When that closes the sums will work much better for changing to ASHP.
@@willb4278 How does adding a heat pump improve my home? My current gas boiler warms my home up great, what improvement would I see with a heat pump?
@@UpsideDownFork Totally agree. Electricity is now over 4x the cost of gas per kWh. It was only 3.2x back in 4Q2022. By comparison, in Sweden electricity is only 1.1x the cost of gas.
I live in the far north of Scotland, most of the time we're on 100% wind and hydro power, but we still have the most expensive electricity in Europe. Will the UK spark gap ever close to anywhere near what other European countries have? Until then, widespread adoption of heat pumps will be problematic.
Really interesting, we have a 4 bedroom detached house. I’m with octopus and have been quoted £1750 for a heat pump and all works including replacing radiators if needed. Spoke to my plumber mate and he said no brainier. So I’m about to pay for the survey.
Excellent 👍 sounds good!
Surely the elephant in the room is that the subsidy is an early-adopter incentive and is unsustainable. Its general taxation money and could be spent on the usual suspects of public services. The cost of them has not fallen fast enough.
Agree that it's not sustainable, even though it's tiny in the bigger picture of public spending.
Right now, because uptake is so low, the amount actually spent on the BUS grant is peanuts compared to domestic gas and oil industry subsidies as well as the fines coming for missing emissions reduction targets.
What we really need to incentivise further adoption is the spark gap to be resolved. This will massively affect the ongoing running costs and the attractiveness of the heat pump proposition.
@@UpsideDownFork The fact of the matter is that it may have cost you £4500, but it cost the rest of us £7500. That's a £12000 piece of kit, and when it needs repairing or replacing it will have costs associated with a £12000 piece of kit. I think any cost/benefit analysis should be based on the full cost, not on the fact that we (I) subsidised you.
@@jamesmansion2572
Are you feeling hard done by?
What else don't you agree with when it comes to tax spending?
In the financial year that this was installed, the BUS grant was 0.0065 percent of total public spending.
So if you earned £50k and paid £10,000 tax last year, I got 65p of that. Thanks.
Perhaps we should consider this a tax rebate. I've paid much more than my fair share of taxes in the last 22 years.
@@jamesmansion2572 on the cost of the installation, the heat pump itself is about double the cost of an equivalent gas boiler. The rest of the cost is labour, pipework, hot water cylinder, valves, etc etc...
@@jamesmansion2572
My HP is just under £3k without VAT, simple to replace, two water couplings and a handful of cables to reconnect.
I notice you make no observation as to the grants that were awarded in the 70's and 80's to install new fangled gas boiler central heating systems in houses that had to be completely replumbed to replace coal fires. Nor the 90% grants for double glazing that were available.
Rick, you are doing a most excellent job attempting to educate those of us who are thinking of switching to a heat pump system. I for one thoroughly enjoy your content. My new 7kW Vaillant was commissioned 2 days ago and all is more than well. Comfortable, plenty of hot water and an efficiency just below 5. Thank you Sir! (atb Martin)_😁
That's great to hear! Enjoy your first winter in exceptional comfort!
I love mine when it works fully :)
Thanks for commenting.
Thanks for all the data in this one it really helps. I have a slightly smaller house with a little more usage then yours but it's good too see a comparison. I've done a heat loss calc and think a 7kw vailant is the way to go. I think your house probably would have been fine with a 5kw but doesn't seem to be much downside on getting the 7kw.
@@radfoo agreed. I would have had a bit more efficiency from the space heating with the 5 but the 7 is better for DHW and when it comes time for defrost cycles. 👍
Actually it’s true about the noise, vailliant are one of the better ones, but most of the noise complaints are from poor installation or older models usually from asian manufacturers or the cheaper manufacturers, many use standard cooler box fans that were not made for eu climate and have corroded, normally from 2016 . Normally even at 20 ft you WON’T hear it , but the bad /usually non maintained or misaligned which can resonate or have fan issues are audible from 400 ft , it’s a drone noise that is very annoying especially when the air is thin on cold nights ,
When installed many use a bed rock bottom to absorb the defrost cycle, but like gravestones the can shift over time , this is why it’s essential that the feet are mounted on rubber feet that clear the gravel onto a firm surface to prevent the sinking
Thanks for commenting.
So, a modern properly installed heat pump will not have any issues.
Great I am happy I followed your advice happy with heat pump and battery cheers Andrew Scotland
Fantastic!
What is the running cost? ie: electricity.
Did you watch the video?
Thanks for showing the average temperature - but can you also show the actual over a year? I’m keen to see what happens seasonally, and to see how much deviation there is in the temperature
Thanks. I've been working on a much deeper dive into the data behind this all, the video already stands at 40 minutes so I'm trying to prioritise stuff.
Last winter it was a lot more constant, since running it on agile, I sometimes allow the house to heat up to 24 and cool to 18 on rare occasions for tariff reasons but it mostly sits consistently between 19-21 degrees all the time.
Really good breakdown. 1st vid of yours I have watched now to consume the rest.
Thanks! Good luck with the back catalogue 🫣😁
Got my heat pump survey with Octopus booked in. Fingers crossed it all goes well as like you, I have microbore (10mm). Have a possible option to re-pipe the rads up to 15mm as I'm going to be doing some other work to the house and it would be the perfect time to do it. That would cover all the rads to the front of the house, but have an extension at the rear which is all plastic microbore and not going to be straightforward to get to. Oh, and the tank is built into a very narrow airing cupboard so will need to take a stud wall out 😅
Octopus have already said on an initial phone survey that any re-piping would need to be done by a 3rd party prior to the installation.
I'm one of the more mad people as I'll be taking at a fairly new boiler (93% efficient Viessmann). It'll be a lot of work, but just removing the boiler from the kitchen and having a more constant temp in the house is enough of a motivation. The house will be more comfortable and quieter, with a bonus that it's less polluting. Now, just got to convince the other half to let me grab another Fogstar 15.5kWh while they are down to £2k with the black Friday discount 😉
Nice!!
@@UpsideDownFork well after some number crunching and some eye rolling from the other half, the 2nd Fogstar has been ordered 😅£2k and delivery should be late Jan/early Feb. Noticed on a cloudy day at the weekend we can drain the battery by 4pm, a good day will just about see us through but most days seem to still be getting to 9-10pm before is done. This is before we go to a heat pump and elec ovens! I'm sure we will still have some days where we'll run out, but should be very minimal and wouldn't be enough to justify a 3rd 😉 Roll on the heat pump survey!
@@steve_787 Very nice! How do the fogstar batteries work together? Is it a master and slave situation or do they communicate to evenly balance?
@@UpsideDownFork there's an RS485 cable that links the batteries and then a "DIP" switch to order the batteries. Not 100% but assume this will allow them to balance themselves. Hopefully they'll drain/charge evenly rather than forcing more from one first, will report back in Feb ;-)
I did the firmware update a couple of weeks ago which resolved the charging issue where it was capped at 5kW, but could discharge at the full 8kW of the inverter. Knocked a good 45min off of the overnight charging time. On top of that, they have changed it to allow 95% DOD from 85% so another 1.5kWh of useable capacity. One thing I'm still not sure how to check is the internal heater. It's in a shed so assume it has been kicking in but need to look into it a little more.
They have changed the connectors on the batteries from amphenol to M8 O rings, so I do need to see if they'll ship it with cables to connect the new to old or if I'll need to source those myself.
@@steve_787 This is all excellent info for me, thanks!
If they are installed right and in a suitable newish home with decent insulation they are generally fine.
However, many installers are throwing them in and running away when there are issues leaving homeowners to pick up the cost of rectification.
Any home is compatible. The design and especially the emitter sizing is the critical part.
It is a myth that newer homes are more suitable, in some cases they are worse for retrofit because of inaccessible plastic pipework.
@UpsideDownFork Older homes are suitable provided they are insulated correctly. No savings on a drafty old Victorian house. Sadly I have seen some really questionable installations where installers heat loss calculations were plucked out of thin air and poor house holder wondering why the HP runs 24/7. But again, the technology is good, but it's the shady installers making it a bit of a wild west.
@@beaverman1974 Insulation has no direct correlation to the efficiency of the heat pump. The emitter sizing dictates the required flow temperature and the COP as a consequence.
A drafty old Victorian home with zero insulation could be properly heated by a heat pump if you can fit large enough emitters to compensate for the heat loss.
The only thing that insulation does in this equation is reduce the heat loss which reduces the potential size of emitters and often when done poorly, introduce moisture problems.
@UpsideDownFork Yes it could with a large enough HP. But seems pointless to do so if all the heat is escaping and your energy bill is astronomical. 😉
@@beaverman1974that's the case with any form of heating. In general these days the running costs of a heat pump in that scenario will still be less than a gas or oil boiler.
Interesting video, great to see the before/after...I would be really interested to learn more about the average heating temperature..If you were to look back at your heat loss calcs on a room by room basis, what is the temperatures in each of those rooms, now ? the reason being is it would be really interesting from an Engineering perspective to see if those rooms are now comfortable...also don't know if you have seen Michael de Podesta YT channel on how to size a heat pump using Degree heating days, how does your heat pump (sizing) & heat loss calc stack up to interms of energy used over the year...might be an interesting video to make..cheers
I've covered both those points in previous vids but to save you going back to find the answers:
I have a set of 3 bluetooth room thermometers which I move around. Good value off amazon, I should buy more!
All of the rooms downstairs consistently achieve the design temps almost bang on. When I move upstairs things change a bit with rooms typically 1 degree warmer than design temp apart from our en-suite where my wife decided to keep the designer towel rail instead of a decent radiator. This does get good morning solar gain though being SE facing.
Yes, i've seen all Michael's videos. His model for calculating heat loss does get in the same ballpark as our calculation. I wonder how conservative he is being because the energy we've used over the last year does not add up to our heat loss of almost 6kW.
I did a fairly deep dive into one cold month last year and concluded that our heat loss calculation is 15-20% over what it really is.
That's fine though, it means our oversized pump performs better for DHW and for defrost cycles.
@@UpsideDownFork Thanks for taking the time to respond and highlighting that you have done some on previous videos, I must admit I enjoy your approach to this topic and have watched numerous videos of the journey...The heat loss variant of 15-20% is pretty damn good as unless you do a true heat loss measurement which can be costly, I would be more than happy with that if it were me (I'm an Engineer).pretty impressed with the room by room design temp outcomes..cheers
@@martinlee7100 I guess my 1996 built home is a much easier proposition when it comes to heat loss calculations. Older and extended properties can be a lot more difficult!
Really enjoyed the video and found it useful. I'm currently awaiting a quote and as we have microbore pupes we are also going to need a buffer tank. I have been concerned that wont work but yor example shows it does. Have you found any issues with the bugger tank or has it all been plain sailing?
It's been working really well. Adding a buffer tank just makes things more idiot proof, both for the installer and for us homeowners. The pump can do what it wants to do and it gives us a little more flexibility to run the system internally how we want within reason. Yes, we sacrifice 5-10% efficiency by having a buffer but it gives peace of mind and helps with system volume for defrosts when it gets to that time of year.
ua-cam.com/video/QFbx7qhqOqc/v-deo.html
Thanks, good review.
When you record the noise, then go do the same outside a fan assisted gas boiler…they are quite noisy, well mine is.
Space, a bit misleading, as you could have had an external gas boiler the same size or smaller.
Try heating your house to the same temperature as you did previously, then compare, should even better.
We live in an old house..only dream of 20deg+. 18deg is very comfortable especially once the internal surfaces are warm, I prefer a bedroom at 16deg.
So true. Neighbours on both sides have gas boilers which are far noisier!
I would be happy to reduce the internal temp but my wife can't go back to a cold house after the comfort she's now used to!
I've lived with a Vaillant heat pump, after 3 in warranty call outs in the first 6 months im not convinced!😢 to the point I've moved house from new build to a old property with a Reliable Boiler 👍
@@pipedreamtv9697 sorry to hear you've had a bad experience. 1 year for us and no issues. That seems pretty typical from the owners group.
Thanks for real world info. So useful seeing real installations.
Where you quoted for a heatpump hot water system as i am assuming yours is direct from the main heatpump.
Also to get enough daily cheap electricity should you not cost the additional battery too; as I would need to double the battery storage.
When gas boiler dies then I hope to go this way.
Yes, my hot water is provided by the heat pump as well as space heating.
I do not have any battery storage, yet.
Hi there ,I have had three quotes from three different companies all three has the same answer the cost is £15000 take away £7500 allowance leaving me £7500 to pay, for most of us that's far to expensive almost twice the cost of a replacement gas boiler.A really expensive boiler will cost around £4000 including fitting. My point is one solution doesn't fit all at present gas prices are four times cheaper than electricity and heat pumps are on average four times more efficient than gas boilers, at the moment there no great advantage in having a heat pump unless you have solar panels installed or a great big diesel generator to power it. I just think a the moment heat pump is a government screw up which they have said that a heat pump should cost after the allowance should cost around £4000 not £7500 which is the top end of a gas boiler.I am puzzled to why we can't have a hybrid head pump/small gas boiler both smaller units more easily powered solar and on really cold days the use of gas .Sadly my gas boiler has died and head pump is too expensive for me, i can not justify spending £7500 on a government flimsy idea so its gas boiler for me.
Did you get a quote from Octopus Energy?
I’ve had my identical heat pump operating since Sep this year. My consumption is similar to yours last Nov and this Sep and Oct but my Nov consumption was235kWhr. How did you get your so low. I’ve reduced my Heat curve setting to 0.5, maybe I could try going lower. One thing that stands out about our experience is just how having the whole house at an even temp, no hot spots, no cold spots , improves comfort considerably.
Yes, agree! Comfort improvement is the biggest noticeable benefit!
Are you comparing my 2 weeks of November with your full month of November?
Impressed the COP was close to 4 in the winter months. My expectation was nearer 3 so that was good to see 😊
@@Stune5 Thanks 👍
Some right spanner is this video, I like the special guest
😂
Nice one Ricky. Just had a 14 KW Adlar heatpump installed a month ago. Still working out the settings. The electricity seems to be costing a lot more but no gas used at all. What are your thoughts on a Solar storage battery ? We have 10 solar panels for over 10 years on the high FIT tariff, an electric Mini charged on a MyEnergy Zappi charger. What storage battery would your subscribers recommend . We are on Octopus Energy Cosy tariff, is this the best for us ? Keep up the good work and many thanks.
Cosy can work for some people, in some homes. You will have to experiment and see.
There are so many battery options.
I'm going to start looking at them closely for myself and documenting it for the channel soon!
@rogerweller-i3d I have a 14kWh Tesla battery. Initially I was on the Octopus Agile tariff but I switched to Cosy as the battery just covers our needs in the more expensive periods. I heat the hot water in the cheap periods to avoid using the battery - this isn't great from a COP point of view but costs me less money. Battery costs are dropping quickly so I'd wait a year.
Another tick for the Tesla Powerwall, ours running flawlessly and with the Gateway offers power to house during power cuts ( if you get them) which with all electric houses is a big consideration. More batteries coming out all the time, no vat on them now and prices are falling. There’s now a good argument that having a battery before solar pv , especially if you have an EV so you can take advantage of tariffs like Intelligent Octopus is the thing to do. Even a simple cheap rate night tariff helps as you charge the battery on cheap rate during the night and use it during the day so minimising peak rate use.
A great video, as always! Did your savings include standing charge over gas?
No, I did not include the £109 gas standing charge in my calculations. This somewhat balances out with the higher servicing costs which can be £50-£100 more than a gas boiler.
@UpsideDownFork my father in law pays £40 a month for his boiler service charge! And it costs a lot to run. Trying to convince him to get a heat pump. I think your video will help :)
@@neutron6220 £40 per month?! I take back what I said about ASHP being more expensive to service. The average cost for them is £150-£250 per year.
@UpsideDownFork octopus charge £108 per year for the servicing. Very close to the standing charge haha.
Interesting looking at your cop for the winter. Our cosy 6 has been lower than I had hoped. I was putting it down the cold weather but I may have to get onto octopus. I have lowered the flow temp to 45 degrees and have noticed a small improvement
What most people do not realise is that to put a heat pump in is just not a direct replacement for their old gas boiler There is new pipe work and interior work tobe done
Correct, in most cases you will need some upgrades to the system. The prices I quoted in this video include those associated upgrades.
In our case, we didn't need any internal pipework to be updated. The existing mix of 22mm/15mm and 10mm copper from when the house was built was entirely adequate.
But we did upgrade the radiators on the existing pipework to help us have good efficiency. Luckily rads are cheap and I changed most of them myself.
I had no replacement pipework and 3 radiator upgrades.
Lots of misinformation and scare stories about.
Very informative video. What temperature do you heat your hot water to for showers and baths? How long does it take to heat up your hot water tank? Thanks
48 degrees. It usually takes 60-90 minutes, done whilst we sleep.
@@UpsideDownForkdoes it not also cycle to a higher temperature every week or so to prevent Legionaries
@@markthomasson5077 Nope. I have that disabled.
@@UpsideDownFork I suspect an unnecessary concern, but perhaps turn it on once in a while
Waste of money for older properties like mine 90years old 🤷♂️ 10:46
@@RobertCrane-d3r nobody is forcing you to fit one but heat pumps work in all buildings, including 90 year old ones 👍
I also struggle with how to get a heat pump solution to work for older buildings.
Fine and dandy in a thermally efficient property, but problematic if you need to keep radiators at a relatively high temperature to maintain a comfortable environment.
You clearly have:
Efficient double glazing … not permitted in a listed building (even the old thin glass has to be retained as it reflects light differently from the different panes).
An effective damp course helping to keep walls dry … not practical in traditional stone faced and rubble filled walls.
A draught-free building … not practical when you need to maintain airflow through rooms to control moisture levels.
The age of your property clearly includes some form of cavity wall insulation … not practical in an old building with solid walls and not permitted to be externally clad and not feasible to apply on internal surfaces due to need to control damp passing through.
I presume you also don’t rely on open fireplaces to allow rooms to ventilate ?
From your discussion, it appears you also have solar to offset your energy usage … not permitted on a listed building.
Installation of a heat exchanger close to the building … technically not permitted within the defined boundaries of a listed building.
Drilling holes through your walls to connect to heat exchanger … also technically not permitted on a listed building (as an example, although I have a sky 😊dish, it had to be mounted remote to the building and is on a pole outside the curtilage .. and the cable fed back through a pre-existing hole in the wall).
Underfloor heating? … problematic with stone flag floors laid directly onto the earth … and it is not practical to lift the flags and install underfloor insulation or pipe work (the building sits on top of the flags .. it would not be wise to disturb this construction as it might cause problems with movement … plus it is not normally permitted to disturb flagstone floors in a listed building).
Overall … I just don’t see it to be a practical solution for an old building … although maybe aspects may become more practical if legislation changes are introduced to allow listed building owners to have more options. It would even be an improvement if common criteria applicable to listed buildings were to be mandated across the entire country, rather than being subject to the whims of individual local authorities.
Sorry to appear so negative … although I dearly love my home and the features innate to old buildings, I am prone to venting some frustration in the official philosophy that such buildings be totally preserved to the exclusion of the realities necessary in the modern age. I even have friends who bought an old cottage that didn’t have an indoor bathroom … they had to fight tooth and nail to get permission for a soil pipe through the wall to install an indoor toilet. I also know of others that did eventually get permission for solar panels … but conditional that they could not be seen and didn’t detract from the aesthetic of the property from any angle … that makes the installation a little challenging!!
That makes no sense. Heat output would be the same with a heat pump.
You need to insulate better whatever.
@@davidrowley-ic6dx properties with a higher heat loss need larger emitters i.e. radiators.
Or insulation can be fitted to lower the heat loss and negate the need for larger radiators.
Either way, any old house can be equally heated by any heat source as long as the design is correct 👍
@@AlanTov 👍 agree.
A heat loss is a heat loss and a heat source is a heat source.
No need for politics.
If I recall correctly, you're also not looking to optimise your SCOP; you're sacrificing a bit of efficiency by using some more energy at the cheaper rates on Agile I think, so that's a really good outcome. I would find it useful to know exactly how you do that - is it that you increase the flow temperature by a degree or two during cheaper-rate periods and decrease it during the more expensive rate periods? You may already have talked about it?
My gas bill over the last two years and assuming current gas rates is £539.97. It's a condensing combi and I'm not going to save all that much - maybe £100-200 per year. But I want to do my bit for the environment as well.
Thank you for your detailed videos on the subject, among other youtubers who have helped dispel the myths surrounding this technology and explained how to achieve the best results; whacking it in and using it like a gas boiler won't do that (although I have mine wired up with opentherm to a nest thermostat which does help the efficiency a lot because it controls the flow temperature for me; I've seen somewhere that they think I'm getting 93% efficiency out of it). One thing that's always missing from the calculations that everybody neglects and I have also neglected is that a boiler will also use some electricity to run the pumps and control circuitry. Anyway, rambling! Enough! :)
I don't know what @upsidedownfork does but I'm trying to optimise for cost (a good COP is part of that). Here's what I do: run the hot water on ECO mode (a Vaillant "installer" setting), heat water in the cheap periods of electricity (this often isn't the best COP because the outside temperature is low), run a lower temperature overnight and slowly heat up the house in the morning.
Yes, that's correct.
In essence, my heat pump is off from 4-7pm but mostly runs at 19-21 degrees for the rest of the day. This works pretty well to use the cheap overnight rates and then my solar kicks in for the middle of the day and then house is nice and warm with plenty of thermal mass to see us through the 3 hour period of off.
Very helpful thanks 👍
You're welcome.
Thanks for the video. I get that replacing a boiler with a heat pump is the obvious thing to do, but should I consider an air2air or air2water system? With A2A I can have cooling in summer. Although I'm not sure if you can get a grant for it.
Video coming next week on exactly this!
Like the microphone and dog’s perfect timing 😂. How did your heat pump perform during the recent cold spell? Would you kindly share the kWh consumption for Nov 20th, 21st, 22nd, 27th and 28th? Thanks
That's coming in an upcoming video. Stay tuned!
Hopefully next year I'll have a ASHP. I have 29kWh of batterries and 15.5kWp of solar, so should be able to completely run on cheap rate electric.
No problem at all I reckon 👍
Yes weather compensation is included
👍
I will keep on using my combi gas boiler and wood on my trusty old log burner.👍
What will you do when the combi needs replacing?
Well done we have a 7kw hear the same as yours the figures are about the same we used 526kw to heat the house and water for November at a COP of 3.8
Nice! Thanks for commenting.
Good SCOP achieved, think it would be too disruptive in my house - plastic pipe work and low gas bills. However, may be taking on my mother’s house that’s running on oil with a 15 year old boiler and 38 year old tank. Micro bore copper pipe but all the downstairs is surface mounted.
It is disruptive but it is worth it, unless your bills are already really low ;-). Of course, your CO2 emissions will be much lower with a heat pump.
@ because I don’t have UFH? Small diameter plastic piping have pipe inserts to every joint, restricting flow - this is according to Heat Geek, my present gas cost is about £600 per year, including hot water - 4 bed home, 4 occupants minimum.
I accept that unfortunately not everyone has the ideal situation like I do.
You actually moved the heat pump across from its original installation location.😊
Well spotted! 😀
I think all homes should have rads sized to delta T 30 , condensing boilers would run at low temps for efficiency and they would be heatpump ready
👍 Agree
If we are talking about efficiency, the heat pump makes perfect sense. But if you're looking at cost, it provides no benefit.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. It helps the algorithm promote this video further.
I’m subscribed and I’m commenting. Do I get a prize ? You are really helping to convince me that a heat pump could work for us. Currently on oil, which we have never found to be super expensive, but the boiler is now 14 years old and I’m thinking the £7500 grants won’t be around forever so maybe I need to take the money now while I can. Our house is very similar to yours, built 1995 and we have improved the heat retention better windows etc, so I’m now quite confident it will work for us. And I can get rid of my oil tank and extend my garage win win.
Yes, you do get a prize! A warm fuzzy feeling inside that you're supporting a good message! ☺️
Great to hear that you're seeing it's suitable for your home. I agree that the grant won't last forever 👍
@ Enjoying my prize. Attempting to control the internal warming with a cold beer and watching UA-cam. Some crazy bloke talking to his heat pump. 👍
What temperature do you run your radiators now compared to the old gas boiler?
I'm on a weather compensation curve so that the colder it gets outside, the higher the flow temperature.
Currently it's 12 degrees outside and my flow temperature is 25 degrees. Highest I've ever seen is 44 degree flow temperature.
I have my unit set to 'flow control', as much to see what difference it might make in how the system performs.
It currently runs at 34C flow temperature (Daikin 6kW HP), which has kept Livingroom between 19.5C and 22.5C.
As the rooms lose or gains heat the flow temperature modulates between 33-36 as compressor and flow rate step up/down output to push the heat required to the radiators.
Keep your boiler and rads, install an air con unit that also produces heat problem solved, plus you get air con for the 6 weeks of extreme UK summer. The End.
Thanks for commenting. That video is coming next on my channel!
A2A Vs A2W
Do you wish you got the open energy monitoring system or is the Vaillant system good enough?
OEM would be a luxury but I can't see much point in it to be honest. Vaillant has the flow rate, flow and return temps, compressor speed, power consumption. Most is available through the interface, other bits you can hack into the Vaillant sensors through three different methods.
The Vaillant pro app also shows installers a very similar interface to heatpumpmonitor so detecting issues can be straightforward.
Are you planning to make videos on all this, would be good to see 👍
@@UpsideDownFork It would be great if Vaillant would let users access the info etc from the pro app - we have actually bought the heat pump.
@lewis_standing OEM (open energy monitor) data is much more detailed than what you can get from the Vaillant app and more accurate. If you like having accurate, detailed data, and you're prepared to invest the time to understand and act on it, then OEM is worth it. I have a Vaillant Arotherm and OEM. A cheaper alternative is "ebusd" which works on Vaillant's data but you need more IT knowledge to work it.
I considered getting the open energy monitoring, but decided against it as I thought I would spend to much time being geeky rather than just ignoring the heating. Heat pumps, once installed and set up, are the easiest heating to ignore, the house is just kept to a nice warm temperature - it's so much more comfortable than a gas boiler.
I do often wonder though if I made the correct decision, in that way gas boilers are much easier, you can improve the efficiency a little, but they are always very inefficient compared to a heat pump. Gas boilers just aren't monitored in the same way as most heat pumps are, I look forward to the day when heat pumps are universal and people just accept the pleasant heating.
what is is your annual service cost for the heat pump com to the gas boiler? you do need to factor it in
Gas boiler is typically £50-£150 cheaper to service.
Disconnect the gas supply and you'll save £110 per year in standing charge balancing that out.
That's why I omitted these from my calculation.
Could you break down the quote? e.g. taking out the radiators? (I'm going fo rUFH instead)
The final bill:
ua-cam.com/video/adeSawmuLoo/v-deo.html
The original quote :
ua-cam.com/video/5RDXdbbcAFE/v-deo.html
Did you have to upsize your radiators?
Yes. Full details here ua-cam.com/video/ARVgEpFKhIw/v-deo.html
excellent summary video, I've had mt Octopus survey this week which I have to say was extremely thorough and the engineer was able to answers lots of technical questions I pestered them with. The software came out recommending a 7kw Daikin (heat loss calc at 5.4 just over the cosy 6 threshold) for me so do you have any knowledge of that Heat pump performance being as good/similar to your Vaillant 7kw. Also I recalled one of you previous videos where you 'regretted' not up-sizing your tank so I asked for a 300ltr which they said would be ok. At the moment i am the only occupant of the house but I wanted it appropriate for a family of 4 if I moved. Am I wasting too much money if I heat that size tank unnecessarily on cheap overnight tariff if don't use it every day or will the residual hot water left in the tank when the next tank heat cycle begins mean it costs even less to heat the water on an ongoing basis.
I'm not up to speed with all the Daikin models I'm afraid. There will be people much better placed than me to answer the question.
If it's just you and a 300L tank then I would recommend heating it once every 3 days.
To get the best efficiency, you want the tank to be as cold as possible when you start heating.
@@UpsideDownFork thanks for the quick reply and the info on the tank as that is completely the opposite of what I would have thought in terms of heating from cold.
@@andyballard1883 It's because the heat pump spends a larger proportion of it's time putting energy into the tank at lower flow temperatures. If you only draw off 50L per day of hot water, the heat pump has to ramp right up to a very high output every cycle. If you drain 250L down then you will spend more than half of the cycle at efficient low flow temps.
so apart from moving the heat pump from its original position, having a hot water cylinder that was too small!, is there anything else you would change about this brilliant set up?😂
Yeah, not publishing it on the internet for the constant criticism 😂
We all need a laugh now and again!!👊🤣
@@jezzaandrews1940 You are very welcome!
It looks like you've moved your heat pump? You were talking about doing that potentially. Did it make a big difference?
No difference to efficiency whatsoever! Increased service access though.
My biggest sticking point at the minute is the complete change over, from old system to new, my old 90's boiler still running like a top. Think I would also need a change over on the power showing and install a thermostatic? At which point the only gas appliance in the property is the hob so may as well get an electric hob and save on the standing charge (£102/£103 per year) so go completely electric?
@@ZanderKaneUK that's exactly what we did.
Videos of each of these steps are on my channel if you want some more viewing material.
I also understand if you're sick of me after this video 😂