It really depends on the situation, If it is for the progression of the story, then it would be fine. If it is for spite or just to be victorious, then it is bad.
even if its for the progression its in bad faith. why bother playing at all if the numbers intrinsically can just be ignored or changed "for the story"
yeah, that makes sense. it feels weird to put a dungeon in front of a party only to have the reward at the end be a virus that insta-kills them all. that doesn't feel like dnd. what is the point?
I'm the DM... I don't cheat on dice rolls. I disbelieve the illusion of the wrong number being on top. (usually letting the attack miss instead of hit because I've been rolling too high) This is why my dice rolls are behind the screen. (most of the time)
you kinda have to improve no matter what your group does as the feel and you can't plan it all. I planned an adventure where they had to enter a loced city there I planned 5 ways to get in, and in end they used option 6, which was not even an ok optin and very dangerous, gave them hints about it and everything they still went the 6th way. So I made it up as I went along.
I'm not saying this is fake, but something feels off when I heard the players names. Ethan and mia, as well as a virus, sounds straight out of resident evil. Leo could also be based on leon.
This doesn't sound much like cheating. Rather, it's more improvising on the fly to make games & the tempo flow. Hoping to DM next year & knowing how to adjust AC, DC for players/NPCS/Villains & Monsters seems a really difficult skill to master
I am all for improv' and all, but two things : - not using any real numbers for combat means the player are no longer playing a game. It's OK if they do not realize it, but they might slowly realize there is no risk - the best story that the author feels like sharing is exactly the one where he stick to his plan and do not 'cheat'. Their failure increase the stakes, and increase the fun afterwards. For the high to feel high, there needs to be some stake at risk. Faking it is way harder than creating it.
It is not the "cheating" part that makes you a bad DM. It's your lack of respect to your players which you cloak as "going with the flow" crap. First of all, thinking "it works" because you remember the times your players had a blast, does not mean that it works. It's exactly like the zodiac signs, you remember when it worked, and you don't even notice it when it didn't. And in most cases you don't even know if your players didn't like the session! And before all lame "wing it" DMs start saying that preparing every detail is bad etc etc, read again what I wrote. I never said that. The simple truth is this: Since you don't know if not preparing is going to make a good session BEFORE the session, not preparing means you decide not to put ANY effort, when your players trust you and give their precious time. The worst thing is that you feel proud of it! In my opinion, you should be ashamed. And before anyone talks about "styles", I am a highly improv DM, but I also prep a lot because preping is not about your style, it's about your respect to your players.
All of this. The first part of the story just sounded like someone giving themselves a high five or patting themselves on the back. Sure, they probably have had some epic games with no prep. I'm sure they've also had some games that were really bad, yet have somehow slipped their mind.
I mean honestly cheating at DnD as a DM is okay, as long as you go into it with the attitude that you aren't trying to sabotage your players but instead trying to provide a more fun experience.
My DM also "cheats" and he's one of the best DMs I've ever had. The only problem about it, it means there's very *VERY* low risks in the game. What I love about D&D is in theory it's the most realistic story telling any game should have, because there's no rewind button and tomorrow isn't a promise. What I love about it, is that roleplay should matter for this reason, getting to know people should matter, and thus trying to not throw yourself into danger for the lulz should matter. Stories shouldn't feel like you're always going to find a way out of them if you're reckless. However, that's how you get more interesting stories with an improve DM, is being an absolute lunatic and watching the DM spin the tale in stranger and stranger directions. Combat just ends after it feels "satisfying" which means no risks. No matter how bad of a situation happens, there's always a way to keep the characters and stories going, which again, low risks. My DM himself though is super creative, so he just kinda keeps things interesting and moving in fun directions regardless, but it really does lack the whole "you died because you decided to pet the chimera" sorta dumb moments. But again, I do want to specify that my DM is incredible and he's so far the best DM I've ever had the fortune of playing a game under, which is why the low risks is literally my only gripe. His knowledge of mechanics, his understanding of how people react, his fantasy settings, all absolute top tier. He could easily charge for his games if he wanted to and be very successful.
Honestly, in my opinion, this is the best style of DMing, you are not beholden to the rules and your focus is the story and the enjoinment of your players and that’s it, I challenge you give me a better way to play the game.
That's not cheating, though? That's improvisation. Or being lazy, depending how you prefer to look at it. Doing the entire session through improvisation does sound unwise though, you could very easily being caught in a lie when you, on a whim, say the AC is 20 and then later say 21 or 19 when nothing happened that could've changed it. Big difference in "okay the players are going a route I didn't prepare for, let me throw something together" and "Meh, I'll just do it as the session goes". But neither are cheating unless you're intentionally fucking up numbers and stats.
It's not cheating. Improv IS part of DMing. That's like saying, "Yeah, I dunk while playing basketball...... I cheat and I'm not going to stop." What a clickbait title.
I wouldn't say this is cheating, but the combat definitely takes away player agency. No predetermined AC or HP means a predetermined result of combat if the DM is only going for what feels good to the players. You can't disregard an important component to the collaborative storytelling: the dice, randomness.
So I am forever GM and my current campaign I had a basic outline of the plot, Paladin order has a civil war and Vecna returns revealing that a million billion years had passed since his last attempt. My players have been theorizing on stuff with NPC's, nations, organizations, and the like. I now have 3 NPC's that were originally throw aways that have become full members of the group, and 2 allies of the party that have a much more flushed out background due to the party coming up with ideas as to what's going on. I have learned that when you let the players be right about something 90% of the time and wrong 10% of the time, they are much more engaged with your world thinking that they are uncovering hidden lore and secrets.
Considering that most of this was just the DM's particular low planning style of play and brand of improv, 'cheating' is doing a lot of clickbait work here.
Thsi reminds me of my very first campaign I ever ran. I was far younger and basically improved a lot of shit since I didn't have enough prepwork to keep up with the players. One of my favourite moments haplened when the party was using a train to move between two locations. I had originally hoped they'd roleplay a little or discuss their plans for when they arrive, only for majority to be disinterested at the time (it also didn't help that I had a player with diagnosed schizophrenia trying to be a spotlight hog with his girlfriend, which annoyed the others). I thought for a moment before internally shouting "Fuck it, throw an encounter at them," pulled a random monster that matched the party's CR and placed it on the train tracks. It ended up being an undead ogre. Fight was incredibly fun to watch as the dwarf player tried to ram it off the tracks, the Aasimar Paladin *(the spotlight hog)* and their partner tried to solo the creature and failing because of it's level, and the Party's barbarian getting invested and joining in to assist them. Towards the end I lied about a roll and had the Ogre hit the druid (Paladin's partner) with a crit, which was enough to knock them unconscious but not deplete their health. Dwarf took the opportunity and ranmed the locomotive straight into the large creature's back while it was distracted, finishing it off. The two non-problematic playwrs absolutely loved the encounter, and I had a bit of a laugh when the Paladin promptly ignored his Druid GF (who was still unconscious and very wounded) and tried to loot the creature, which caused a small argument and gave the others roleplay opportunities that they gladly took. I still despise that campaign more than anything, for a big list of reasons, but that improvised encounter is still one of my favorites to date! I still keep in touch with the dwarf and the human barbarian, who have said similar when I asked for their thoughts on it :)
I tend to thibk of the area they are in, make a HUGE listof creatures in the area, some easy some hard, and 1 big boss. I then look at theblist at any give moment and plop them down, comingnup with stories of what theyre doing in that moment as I go.
I make a good basic plot, then fill it in along the way. I almost never fill out all of an antagonists stats. Sometimes, when the group of orcs or gnolls just aren't doing a good job of threatening the party, I add a few or bunch more. Or I will have a bigger threat attack both groups. Like throw in a T-rex on top of the already attacking orcs.
Well S*ht I guess I cheat too lol. But my players absolutely love it, and have absolutely no idea that all my “prep” is making their items and thinking of monsters and a situation that they will deal with next. Then when the game starts. We are all flying by the seat of our pants. And I’m just as excited to see what happens next as them 😂
I have complicated feelings about winging boss fights because it means that building any strategy is basically impossible; but if it's not what you care for in a game, there is nothing wrong with it. As for everything else - it sounds pretty fun, and I wouldn't call it cheating.
I always plan hulf way- at my jojo one shot i made up the bbeg as a part of one of the pc's backstory (not that they could figure it out until he slipped away) and made the office of the first boss (the place where the fight became intense) completly while they had the second fight with it (after one of the charecters became too greedy for damage and had let him escape the allyway which was the firts "battle map") and i initially didnt think about having the speedwagon foundation in it but it was my easiest way to explain the natural born stand user pc what stands are yeah im just rumbeling at this point
Fudging is wrong. I applaud the DM breaking their prep addiction with zero prep (minimal prep), but they have taken it to a perverse extreme. Which I can not condone.
improv is really the best handle, for a session one time, the only thing i prep before hand was that i would throw the lizardman at the human, and don, the funniest session ever, i don't remenber anything the players were sayibg 'cause i was laugthing to hard
As a DM, I have to cheater D20’s. One with 2-1’s, one with 2-20’s. I only use them for observed rolls for the Parties benefit. ie: oh crap, this Can’t crit. Or, this big bad Must get away if at all possible. (Though if the big bad Has to get away, they miraculously have Way more hp than it first appeared. 😜)
I absolutely hate that he calls improv cheating.
Yep. Same
is he the kind of shithead who thinks looking at a picture to make sure you understand what you're trying to draw is cheating?
@@SpitfiretheCat16 many call that art theft lol i hate that they call it as such
It really depends on the situation,
If it is for the progression of the story, then it would be fine.
If it is for spite or just to be victorious, then it is bad.
even if its for the progression its in bad faith. why bother playing at all if the numbers intrinsically can just be ignored or changed "for the story"
...i don't think that counts as cheating. That's just a low prep high improv dm style. I use it too.
The virus storyline. I’d give them a chance to get a cure or purification or something
yeah, that makes sense. it feels weird to put a dungeon in front of a party only to have the reward at the end be a virus that insta-kills them all. that doesn't feel like dnd. what is the point?
It honestly seems like the DM is blaming bad DMing on their preplanning when that's not the issue
I'm the DM... I don't cheat on dice rolls. I disbelieve the illusion of the wrong number being on top. (usually letting the attack miss instead of hit because I've been rolling too high) This is why my dice rolls are behind the screen. (most of the time)
you kinda have to improve no matter what your group does as the feel and you can't plan it all. I planned an adventure where they had to enter a loced city there I planned 5 ways to get in, and in end they used option 6, which was not even an ok optin and very dangerous, gave them hints about it and everything they still went the 6th way. So I made it up as I went along.
friendly heads up, improv is spelled improv, you're spelling improve: make or become better.
I'm not saying this is fake, but something feels off when I heard the players names. Ethan and mia, as well as a virus, sounds straight out of resident evil. Leo could also be based on leon.
This doesn't sound much like cheating. Rather, it's more improvising on the fly to make games & the tempo flow.
Hoping to DM next year & knowing how to adjust AC, DC for players/NPCS/Villains & Monsters seems a really difficult skill to master
I am all for improv' and all, but two things :
- not using any real numbers for combat means the player are no longer playing a game. It's OK if they do not realize it, but they might slowly realize there is no risk
- the best story that the author feels like sharing is exactly the one where he stick to his plan and do not 'cheat'. Their failure increase the stakes, and increase the fun afterwards.
For the high to feel high, there needs to be some stake at risk. Faking it is way harder than creating it.
As soon as I heard "I'm the DM" I realised it was just going to be about using improv a lot
Couldn't be me, but each their own. This guy is a master at improve and I wish I could act on the fly like he can.
Absolutely, I can improve at times, but it is very hit or miss
you guys are spelling improv wrong, and spelling "improve: make or become better." instead, just a friendly heads up ^-^
I love that the DM literally used the plot of the first Resident Evil movie.
It is not the "cheating" part that makes you a bad DM. It's your lack of respect to your players which you cloak as "going with the flow" crap. First of all, thinking "it works" because you remember the times your players had a blast, does not mean that it works. It's exactly like the zodiac signs, you remember when it worked, and you don't even notice it when it didn't. And in most cases you don't even know if your players didn't like the session! And before all lame "wing it" DMs start saying that preparing every detail is bad etc etc, read again what I wrote. I never said that. The simple truth is this:
Since you don't know if not preparing is going to make a good session BEFORE the session, not preparing means you decide not to put ANY effort, when your players trust you and give their precious time. The worst thing is that you feel proud of it! In my opinion, you should be ashamed. And before anyone talks about "styles", I am a highly improv DM, but I also prep a lot because preping is not about your style, it's about your respect to your players.
All of this. The first part of the story just sounded like someone giving themselves a high five or patting themselves on the back. Sure, they probably have had some epic games with no prep. I'm sure they've also had some games that were really bad, yet have somehow slipped their mind.
I mean honestly cheating at DnD as a DM is okay, as long as you go into it with the attitude that you aren't trying to sabotage your players but instead trying to provide a more fun experience.
OMG I IMPROVE SOMETIMES IM SUCH A LIL BADDIE!
is there a story here???
I feel like you are just calling me out with this one, dude XD
So the Scott Cawthorn School of Story? Nice.
My DM also "cheats" and he's one of the best DMs I've ever had. The only problem about it, it means there's very *VERY* low risks in the game. What I love about D&D is in theory it's the most realistic story telling any game should have, because there's no rewind button and tomorrow isn't a promise. What I love about it, is that roleplay should matter for this reason, getting to know people should matter, and thus trying to not throw yourself into danger for the lulz should matter. Stories shouldn't feel like you're always going to find a way out of them if you're reckless. However, that's how you get more interesting stories with an improve DM, is being an absolute lunatic and watching the DM spin the tale in stranger and stranger directions. Combat just ends after it feels "satisfying" which means no risks. No matter how bad of a situation happens, there's always a way to keep the characters and stories going, which again, low risks.
My DM himself though is super creative, so he just kinda keeps things interesting and moving in fun directions regardless, but it really does lack the whole "you died because you decided to pet the chimera" sorta dumb moments. But again, I do want to specify that my DM is incredible and he's so far the best DM I've ever had the fortune of playing a game under, which is why the low risks is literally my only gripe. His knowledge of mechanics, his understanding of how people react, his fantasy settings, all absolute top tier. He could easily charge for his games if he wanted to and be very successful.
Honestly, in my opinion, this is the best style of DMing, you are not beholden to the rules and your focus is the story and the enjoinment of your players and that’s it, I challenge you give me a better way to play the game.
That's not cheating, though? That's improvisation. Or being lazy, depending how you prefer to look at it. Doing the entire session through improvisation does sound unwise though, you could very easily being caught in a lie when you, on a whim, say the AC is 20 and then later say 21 or 19 when nothing happened that could've changed it.
Big difference in "okay the players are going a route I didn't prepare for, let me throw something together" and "Meh, I'll just do it as the session goes". But neither are cheating unless you're intentionally fucking up numbers and stats.
It's not cheating. Improv IS part of DMing.
That's like saying, "Yeah, I dunk while playing basketball...... I cheat and I'm not going to stop."
What a clickbait title.
Tell this DM to try Amber DRPG or Glossamer Lords and Shadows.
Those need a thinking like this DM had, just with some rules.
I wouldn't say this is cheating, but the combat definitely takes away player agency. No predetermined AC or HP means a predetermined result of combat if the DM is only going for what feels good to the players. You can't disregard an important component to the collaborative storytelling: the dice, randomness.
So I am forever GM and my current campaign I had a basic outline of the plot, Paladin order has a civil war and Vecna returns revealing that a million billion years had passed since his last attempt. My players have been theorizing on stuff with NPC's, nations, organizations, and the like. I now have 3 NPC's that were originally throw aways that have become full members of the group, and 2 allies of the party that have a much more flushed out background due to the party coming up with ideas as to what's going on.
I have learned that when you let the players be right about something 90% of the time and wrong 10% of the time, they are much more engaged with your world thinking that they are uncovering hidden lore and secrets.
Considering that most of this was just the DM's particular low planning style of play and brand of improv, 'cheating' is doing a lot of clickbait work here.
Thsi reminds me of my very first campaign I ever ran. I was far younger and basically improved a lot of shit since I didn't have enough prepwork to keep up with the players.
One of my favourite moments haplened when the party was using a train to move between two locations. I had originally hoped they'd roleplay a little or discuss their plans for when they arrive, only for majority to be disinterested at the time (it also didn't help that I had a player with diagnosed schizophrenia trying to be a spotlight hog with his girlfriend, which annoyed the others).
I thought for a moment before internally shouting "Fuck it, throw an encounter at them," pulled a random monster that matched the party's CR and placed it on the train tracks. It ended up being an undead ogre.
Fight was incredibly fun to watch as the dwarf player tried to ram it off the tracks, the Aasimar Paladin *(the spotlight hog)* and their partner tried to solo the creature and failing because of it's level, and the Party's barbarian getting invested and joining in to assist them.
Towards the end I lied about a roll and had the Ogre hit the druid (Paladin's partner) with a crit, which was enough to knock them unconscious but not deplete their health. Dwarf took the opportunity and ranmed the locomotive straight into the large creature's back while it was distracted, finishing it off.
The two non-problematic playwrs absolutely loved the encounter, and I had a bit of a laugh when the Paladin promptly ignored his Druid GF (who was still unconscious and very wounded) and tried to loot the creature, which caused a small argument and gave the others roleplay opportunities that they gladly took.
I still despise that campaign more than anything, for a big list of reasons, but that improvised encounter is still one of my favorites to date! I still keep in touch with the dwarf and the human barbarian, who have said similar when I asked for their thoughts on it :)
I tend to thibk of the area they are in, make a HUGE listof creatures in the area, some easy some hard, and 1 big boss. I then look at theblist at any give moment and plop them down, comingnup with stories of what theyre doing in that moment as I go.
Feels less like cheating and more like screwing around and getting good results
I make a good basic plot, then fill it in along the way. I almost never fill out all of an antagonists stats. Sometimes, when the group of orcs or gnolls just aren't doing a good job of threatening the party, I add a few or bunch more. Or I will have a bigger threat attack both groups. Like throw in a T-rex on top of the already attacking orcs.
Well S*ht I guess I cheat too lol. But my players absolutely love it, and have absolutely no idea that all my “prep” is making their items and thinking of monsters and a situation that they will deal with next. Then when the game starts. We are all flying by the seat of our pants. And I’m just as excited to see what happens next as them 😂
I have complicated feelings about winging boss fights because it means that building any strategy is basically impossible; but if it's not what you care for in a game, there is nothing wrong with it. As for everything else - it sounds pretty fun, and I wouldn't call it cheating.
If everyone is having fun, then I say go for it. Improvisation, cheating, whatever you wanna call it, it’s what the group enjoys.
I always plan hulf way- at my jojo one shot i made up the bbeg as a part of one of the pc's backstory (not that they could figure it out until he slipped away) and made the office of the first boss (the place where the fight became intense) completly while they had the second fight with it (after one of the charecters became too greedy for damage and had let him escape the allyway which was the firts "battle map") and i initially didnt think about having the speedwagon foundation in it but it was my easiest way to explain the natural born stand user pc what stands are yeah im just rumbeling at this point
Never tell them is a game and nobody cares. it may break their bubble and turn their hair blue.
Well if they ever peek behind the curtain. Have fun explaining that
a dm should NEVER cheat PERIOD.
This is 💯 how i run my sessions. It bites me in the butt, but i still try to focus on fun😂
I don’t see how improv is cheating
I feel attacked, this is my whole career lmao
Not really cheating, but okay
Shhhhh our greatest secret is out!
Thats a cool DM
A DM cannot cheat, only adapt.
Fudging is wrong.
I applaud the DM breaking their prep addiction with zero prep (minimal prep), but they have taken it to a perverse extreme. Which I can not condone.
Rule 0 is there for a reason >.> If this is how that DM wants to roll, and the players are having fun, I say its all cool
@@durk5331 Rule Zero and its consequences have been a disaster for the Hobby.
@@AuthoritativeNewsNetwork pffffft not in my experience
@@durk5331 I will not validate your delusion.
@@AuthoritativeNewsNetwork And I will not validate yours!
Hey you cant do that thats cheating
YIRBEL LIVES AND HAPPY HALLoooWHAT?!...... this guy's gonna get caught eventually! *He's playing with fire!!*
Running a campaign is a balance of planing and improvisation. How much of each you do is up to you as a DM. What matters in the end is the fun.
Nah, not for me. Planning is fun.
I usually use a module, the slowly modify the crap out of it around backstory’s as appropriate. Then improvise around That when I have the inspiration
improv is really the best handle, for a session one time, the only thing i prep before hand was that i would throw the lizardman at the human, and don, the funniest session ever, i don't remenber anything the players were sayibg 'cause i was laugthing to hard
I thought this was me until he named the players
Yo.
Yo.
As a DM, I have to cheater D20’s. One with 2-1’s, one with 2-20’s.
I only use them for observed rolls for the Parties benefit.
ie: oh crap, this Can’t crit.
Or, this big bad Must get away if at all possible.
(Though if the big bad Has to get away, they miraculously have Way more hp than it first appeared. 😜)
The thing with D&D is the dice, and the rules, are just guidelines. It's not really possible to "cheat" as this is not a competitive sport.
only way to cheat is for the players to fudge their rolls >.>
HA, DM's should only roll dice for effect...