A person can justify the why, the how, etc.. but the truth is a person who KNOWS a man or woman is married and doesn’t back off is wrong. Period. It’s never ok to insert yourself into a couples union even if there are problems. Every couple has issues and goes through hard times and by allowing yourself to be the “escape” that someone is craving in the moment just adds to the problems. It hardly ever ends well…
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts in this space. I hope this episode supports you in learning a bit more about what might keep someone from stepping away even when they "should." Wishing you peace and thank you again.
@@melvinbirdman7438 Exactly! The person at fault is the one in a relationship being unfaithful and dishonest. The 3rd one may not even know about everything. Stop blaming the person outside the relationship!
This is the most comprehensive explanation of why one might choose to become an affair partner I’ve ever heard and for me, how it relates to both my parents cheating on each other at different ages of my life. How they involved me and how I’ve not recognized how that relates to choices I have made. Thank you!! Whew! Really appreciate finding this.
My husband’s affair partner was very proud at her place in the breaking up of our marriage. All three of us work at the same company & she didn’t care & both of them, the cheaters are shameless. I ended up quitting because I couldn’t go through the pain, the shame & the disrespect that both of them has put me through
@@alexandrahs1 it was & I haven’t recovered. But it seems karma was just right behind him; he lost a sizable $$$ for the settlement, he lost the only daughter he loves & guilt, remorse & regret all came knocking at his doorstep. He was crying & begging the time I spoke with him….but it can’t go back to where it was. I will never go back despite the fact that I still love him. God & my faith will help me along life’s way & I’m willing to wait. But never allowing a low life come back after he broke me into pieces
This is far and away the best video I've seen about healing from the perspective of having an affair. Obviously this topic brings a lot of fear and anger, which are represented in many responses. But this video goes beyond blaming to the step after that, compassion to grow into a more expansive, steady version of ourselves. Thank you for the concrete suggestions at the end. I'm still in limbo with my MM, but we're trying to break up. It's so painful. We're not together because of a life changing health issue. It is so painful, and I'm wrestling with self-loathing, sadness, and anger. Thank you for the guidance and kindness.
Thank you. Into my 50s this is the first time in my life I have made such a shocking choice to get involved as an affair partner of someone. Your guidance/advice and knowledge has been invaluable and all resonated with me. I knew in my heart I was a misery stabiliser and I believe the situation we created had lessons for both of us within it. As a result of weeks of reflection and then listening to this podcast it has resulted in me moving away from the situation and making my boundaries very clear. Now its about staying in my truth and sticking to my boundaries regardless of his behaviour.
Just discovering your channel. I've watched a lot of videos in this topic (and there's a lot of competition out there), but I really like what you're bringing to the table. Thank you for your content.
Good people in good relationships may face entanglements. Even the best intentioned people can slowly let their boundaries be eroded into a full blow affair. I don't understand the reason of many puritanical comments. I am not a religious person but a very intelligent man from Galilee said he who is free from sin, let him cast the first stone.
@@wLBlue Call it "unexpected liaisons" if you prefer. Shit happens, people change, desires shift and infidelity existed and exists. It’s better to communicate openly and acknowledge that problems occur, rather than pretending everyone must be perfect, everybody must be a saint or idealizing things. A 2020 study published in the Journal of Marriage and Family found that around 25% of married individuals in the US admitted to having been unfaithful. A survey conducted by the British organization YouGov in 2019 found a similar result in the UK. This is the reality. Have a nice day.
@@marsattacks1979 yes, indeed but infidelity often causes a great deal of heartache for those involved as well as the wider family. Jesus wasn't trying to spoil anyone's fun when he told the woman to repent. By her changing her behaviour she'd save herself much pain. Have a good day you too.
@@marsattacks1979 No, it doesn’t “just happen”. You don’t “just happen” to be walking around with no clothes on.. If you can forgive it, and move past it, then good for you. For me, once that happens, there’s no going back. A person may shatter my trust once but they will never get it back and they will never be given a second opportunity to do it again (which these types nearly always do because infidelity is rarely ever an isolated incident).
The vial and judgmental comments here against women who find themselves in the position of an affair partner is so disheartening. Everyone deserves compassion. The human experience is not reduced to black and white, and I suspect that many of you have experienced the push-pull of your moral compass in other areas of your life at some point in your experience …and not erred on the side of morality 100% of the time. Maybe not, maybe the only people judging others here are those who have only made selfless decisions that have never hurt anyone else. I commend you all.
I liked that you addressed this issue. It's not talked about enough. However you didn't even touch on the devastation that the AP goes through on a daily basis. The loneliness, sadness, pain or anything like it. It would have been nice if you addressed the daily anxiety and stress the AP goes through.
That mostly about healing and stopping pursuing the emotionally unavailable men (they can be all sorts unavailable, not necessary married). Exactly because that hurts.
Really? The AP literally put Themselves into this position. They are capable of stepping away from it but choose not to. They Have a Choice. The betrayed spouse has no choice in the situation. Neither do their children. People Really Don't care how the AP feels. Even the betraying spouse doesn't really care. The AP is the only one who cares about how they feel which is fitting because they don't care about how the betrayed spouse or the children Will Feel For The Rest Of Their Lives. Sorry, not sorry. They did it to themselves and Did have a choice in the matter.
You cannot build a happy home or relationship on the wrecks your affair has caused. Even if the mariage ends you will remain number 2, second choice. Especially if there is overlap. Men do not leave unless they know number 2 is waiting. One day the Affair Parther will be the number 2 (again?). This is what we become if we do not have the courage to do what is right and walk away from what is wrong. We used to have a social network that helped us to stay on track. In today’s world that is much harder. You need innerstrenghts to face your self.
Esther Perez speaks nine languages - she states that there is a word for the other woman in all 9 Languages yet there are no words in those languages for the other man. I find that interesting.
Thank you. For covering an important and difficult topic. It is amazing to me the hatred and animosity.And vitriol people have for this type of thing. It's no wonder that people don't want to speak up with the amount of judgmental. People out there. I truly think that comes from fear that their partner could do that to them. Life is messy.
There are also many cases where the AP will harass, bully and even stalk the wife and sometimes family. Of course there are exceptions but many APs do go out of their way to be intentionally cruel and cause more destruction. I also know there are times when the wife harass the AP. It's honestly a lose lose situation on all sides. Everyone ends up hurt.
I believe that the AP has a narrow lens (skewed, bent, and broken) and the AP reduces their empathy-so in a sense they lose a bit of their humanity. Duplicity=inauthentic. I have never been betrayed but I have seen these ‘other’ women in social situations with their AP. They seem uncomfortable and constantly keeping an eye on their AP like they can’t trust them. It’s not worth it. The betrayed wife actually seems to move onto a better life and the ‘other’ woman is still jealous of her. It’s bizarre.
Being the AP is like eating your dinner out of a restaurant garbage dumpster. Congratulations on being picked by a garbage person. The cheater is a person with deep problems and they will either never leave the spouse because they are cowardly or they will cheat on the AP as well. Being an AP is like racing to be in last place. Get therapy and stop participating in abuse.
Thank you for this podcast. Rarely talked about and never any empathy for the affair partner, you brought so many ideas to light as to the reasons we tell ourselves that we will not hurt anyone.
Excellent, Excellent! The most in depth and and comprehensive i sight and explanation of affairs and how it basically perpetuated from one generation to the next. Very grateful 🙏
People actually think you can own another individual.... That's just ridiculous; married or not you will never stop a grown adult from choosing to cheat or stay faithful. So, blaming someone else is a Oxy Moron. It's simply a choice that was made to do so!! The Ego can fool you into thinking you have alot of Darn Power, when actually you're just a target like everybody else!! 🤷
Assuming we’re talking about individuals above the age of 5 then it’s entirely reasonable to blame a grown adult who makes the choice to cheat or to screw someone else’s husband or wife.
Wish you’d address the problem in older people’s marriages - sexless marriages. Usually it’s the woman doesn’t want sex anymore. Or sometimes a partner becomes ill or has a dementia. Is the other person obligated to remain sexless for the rest of his/her life in these circumstances? I know a few couples in these kinds of situations. The partner who still wants and needs sex doesn’t want to end the marriage, and neither do the affair partners they’re involved with. Both have settled lives, but just need physical intimacy. A friend of mine is in her late 60s and still very sexual. Her affair partner is in his late 60s as well, and his wife has dementia and other end-of-life health issues. They’ve been together for almost three years. He is honoring his vows for “in sickness and health” and is committed to his wife’s care, but also is still in need of sex …
I was interested in your message until you said that you don’t take an ethical stand on the affair partner’s decision to create a deceitful relationship. Such a relationship violates another person’s autonomy, and the onus for that is on both affair partners. While there may be reasons or explanations for this decision, it can almost never be a moral one.
@@northofyou33 Oh please enough of that crap. You're helping a cheating spouse destroy their marriage and their family unit. You don't have to be a part of that ... period. It's really that simple. You have total agency of your own actions. I choose not to be a part of that.
Thank you for sharing in this space. My goal for this episode was to address the psychological and relational dynamics of the affair partner while holding compassion for their humanity. I appreciate you stepping into the conversation and am sending positive energy your way.
Also ive heard misery likes company. They affair down. And broken seeks broken. Its the biggest ego boost. Take another womans husband. Whats you view on this. ?
Affair down? Not always. If your wife or husband makes you feel like crap and constantly degrading you and the nagging never stops? Will always find someone that makes you feel appreciated, alive, excited and in love! Getting divorced is not easy. Especially if there’s children involved a house to sell and money tied up.
How will I ever get the AP to hear this? It all makes sense. Oh. I'm the betrayed spouse. Maybe I should not have listened, but I'm working on trying to forgive and empathize with the AP.
Thank you for being a part of this space. Here is some additional information surrounding my e-course - I hope it can serve as an additional resource for you as you continue to heal from betrayal. courses.dralexandrasolomon.com/can-i-trust-you-again-rebuilding-after-betrayal-or-deceit#:~:text=It%20is%20an%20opportunity%20to,creating%20a%20vision%20for%20change. I really appreciate your thoughtful words and am sending kindness to you.
affair partners are broken people. You can not arrive at that level of dysfunction without being broken in some major ways. They are pathetic people. It’s SAD how much destruction they cause to people who never did anything to hurt them (including the children of families that are destroyed by cheating.) They will say they are not responsible but they are half the equation in causing all of this pain.
@@evesbyteit’s not; it’s a _decision_ to be not a coward. Need somebody else - say it and proceed there openly. But this video is mostly about complicated and traumatised people who actually keep that intrigued
Trying so hard not to roll my eyes at some of this because it's giving a lot if excuses for bad behavior. BUT it is interesting to get some insight on where the AP is in their thinking. I never understood the draw to be with someone who is married or has a partner... that's an immediate turn off for me. Also, how can the AP not feel like that person will not so the same thing to them? I get it...they give you a sad story or whatever but its still very strange. I have experienced an AP that sounded like they were in it for some points you mentioned thrill, wanting to feel special or selected, and also she was trying to cushion her exit from her relationship (she was also married) and also actively trying to be my friend. I assume in an attempt to get more information about my husband and also again the thrill factor. Suffice to say, she's a grown woman and sometimes the excuses are all B.S. to allow people to feel better about their bad behavior.
He wasnt married had partner no children persuaded me for a year promised he would leave otherwise i refused to see him. For 18 months i had the most gorgeous relationsip of my life he said he wanted to marry me wanted to care for me the rest of my life. He then moved across the world devasted me. Im not over it never will be. He says still loves adores me yet not able to leave. Im the only one whoes life is utterly ruined. Have sympathy for the the person who believed he'd wanted me only.
He absolutely doesn't love and adore you and never did. He loved the way you loved him and how good you made him feel. Stop feeding his ego. The only reason he's still maintaining any contact and telling you sweet NOTHINGS from afar is because he wants to know you're still wanting and waiting for him which feeds his obnoxious ego. See how he reacts when you move on, get over him, and see how he was actually only using you.
The song "lipstick promises" comes to mind. How when he was with someone else could it be so good? He's not giving his full self which keeps you from giving your full self. It was your rose colored glasses and indoctrination of what an amazing relationship is supposed to be. Turn to scripture and be patient.
I have an issue with the object of desire self-consciousness theory. It seems incredibly sexist and doesn’t take into account the socialization of women to be objects of desire. Given that we are trained to see our self-worth as evidenced by being desirable to a man wouldn’t it follow that single cis women would be more susceptible to this? Kind of offensive frankly.
Thank you so much for sharing in this space. Were you able to listen to the full episode? The theory itself is certainly gendered, although it can play out no matter your gender and gender expression. I hope the Relational Self-Awareness questions I offered within the episode were supportive to you in further exploring the topic. And of course, along with everything in these podcast episodes - take with you what lands for you and leave behind the rest!
The 3 roles are actually 2 roles. The AP is the "innocent" one. The one cheating is at fault. The one being cheated on is at times at fault as well. It is between the two of them. The 3rd is most often a symptom of the malfunction.
Certainly if the AP has been lied to and does not know the relationship status of the betraying partner, this is the case. I am not sure whether you've listened to the episode, but I make the case that even though infidelity is often a symptom of an unhappy marriage, we ought to ALSO explore what is going on inside of the AP. Thank you for your comment.
unfortunately, men are sexual creatures and many women slow down with the intimacy when the child comes along. There were 3 divorces in my street by the time the oldest had turned 3.
If she doesnt want him and he doesn’t want her but she won’t let him go… it’s been over for 15 years! We’re happy together. He IS getting divorced. We never cheated. Just attracted.
I have not done exact parallels but please listen to the episode, "Can We Rebuild After Infidelity?" ua-cam.com/video/iYtqtyTF6oA/v-deo.html and my e-course, "Can I Trust You Again? Rebuilding After Betrayal or Deceit courses.dralexandrasolomon.com/can-i-trust-you-again-rebuilding-after-betrayal-or-deceit
I guess I'm a desperate complete mess. Yes, my childhood was a nightmare, I'd a very abusive step-father. I'm sitting here with my arms crossed feeling like I'm being preached to, like my step-father often did. Very, Very negative and yes this whole experience is not what I need, but unfortunately is what I need as well. Everything I do is out of Love for Love, including being the oldest and wanting to take care of my family regardless if it meant I took the bounty of the abuse, even for my own mother. My "affair" is emotional, the person I care about does not know how important he is to me, or maybe he does, we don't cross the line, but I know in my heart that line is very thin. I met his wife and wanted to love her so I can get past this, but instead I found her narcissistic and she had no concern with anyone only her wants and needs where important, my family also saw this in her. She has completely annulated each of her children all grown, at one point or another among other things. My life has been full of narcissistic people including my late husband. This friend and I are on parallels, we are both people pleasers, work in the same industry and have much of the same likes and dislikes. I know he won't leave her, he is trying to fix her and has committed to that for decades, I've accepted that he will never tell me that he loves me or I will never tell him how much I'm in love with him, as long as he is in that marriage, if my husband had not passed I probably would not have left him either. I've one huge question why is this right???
I have been all 3 in the scenario. I would have NEVER thought I’d cheat until I was cheated on. I can tell you this. Of all positions to be in the affair partner is the worse. You know you’re a piece of crap anytime you’re willing to compromise everything for the #2 spot and in the end what are you proud of? When I was the other woman I could never be myself or make natural moves- every move I made was calculated to keep him interested- to keep up the facade, to keep my true feelings at bay. Nothing was pure or real.
It was interesting thank you. I don't know why it should be taboo. With half of marriages ending in divorce, "affairs" are very ordinary, let's face it. I think alot of us have been in all the various positions if you've lived long enough. There are many reasons why it happens, for instance, you may be stuck in a marriage with someone who has a long term illness where you need intimacy at some point. Life is complicated. I think few people go out to destroy other people. In an ideal world, we would all be super happy in our little nuclear marriages but none that I have witnessed over the years.
I relate to the original comment and the second time (both really) I was vulnerable to someone’s pure kindness/ attention and seeing me in a way that most overlook. I was probably was preyed upon. The second time he pretended he wasn’t married and didn’t tell me until much later. Everything isn’t black and white and not all AP go into it willingly.
Should there be a dating app for the betrayeds? Afterall, we're looking for the pool of people who DON'T actually do this stuff. Divorce from stbx wife will be finalized December 3 😃💪
It amazes me when married women attack the woman in this scenario, rather than their husbands. It is rare for a woman to make the first move.... although it does happen of course. It is usually the husband who befriends a woman he is attracted to and then a relationship starts from there. An affair is always a symptom of a problem within the marriage.... whether the wife wants to admit htat or not. Men are very simple creatures.. even the highly intelligent and intellectual ones. It's always about sex, even if they wrap it up as 'love'. But I do think that the wives, rather than attacking the other woman, ought to be focussing all their anger on their husbands. No one forced these men to be unfaithful. They wanted to be.
What if the AP believe the lies she's told? He told her he was single and we they have broken up.. Still married but split up. AP asked him to file. And to get his tattoos covered up. Basically, get rid of his past. ( I've since found out she was seeing a married man in the same office ( she knew he was married, before she came on to my husband)
This entire explanation or argument is premised on the idea that marriage is somehow an ideal state and not in actuality a largely failed myth of culture in which people become subsumed and pigeonholed. The assumption that I must be broken, confused or compromised because I have chosen to make love with my partner is the least feminist position you could possibly take. I am neither of those things. What I am is in full embrace of reality. My sexual needs are being met. His sexual needs are being met. She has zero sexual interest in her husband. For six of the last 17 years she has not touched him and avoid him by staying up late after he goes to bed. For five of those years he and I were drawn to each other and did nothing about it despite strong desire and friendship. This year I changed my perspective on the entire thing because I stopped to think about how short life actually is, about how much I genuinely like him and care about his happiness, and about how little I buy into the BS about marriage. In this video you perpetuate the myth that marriage is an ideal state for any individual, no matter what. I wholeheartedly disagree. And I think that assertions that people who do not believe that marriage is an ideal state need to be fixed is like saying that LGBTQ individuals need to be reprogrammed. Marriage is the biggest hoax played upon people there has ever been. If I do my partner any favor whatsoever it is not orgasms or blowjobs, it is seeing him for the whole person he is and acknowledging that the only thing that prevents him from fully expressing himself is his unfortunate state of being caught up in the marriage myth. Every aspect of our culture insists that people do this thing that is anathema to their existential right to be free and express themselves fully. Men and women are jacked around by fiction, advertising, capitalism, marketing, stereotypes and bullshit. The person who needs help is the one who will not acknowledge the truth that most marriages do not last, that physical desire shifts and most often leaves, and that infidelity is common for a very good reason. It would be more honest for you to create a video in which you discuss this truth and liberate people from cultural narratives that entrap them.
I am not sure whether you have listened to the episode or not, but I certainly would never say that an affair partner is broken. My work is an invitation into self-reflection and exploring the "roles" we take up in our relationships. I agree with much of your critique of the institution of marriage. Listen to my conversation with Dr. Shefali for more on this: ua-cam.com/video/zhWgnv8WsAc/v-deo.html. I think we can hold BOTH a critical view of marriage AND concern for the impact of deception. I am wishing you well. Thank you for your comment.
@@MP-cd5kk And how do you actually know that any of this is even true? Are you in their home? Are you in their bed with them? Frankly, being used as a side piece ain’t exactly “feminist”, either? If he ACTUALLY gave a damn about YOU then why does he not leave HER and make you something more than a dirty little secret that he’d likely drop like a tonne of bricks the second you put pressure on him to leave his wife? Face it, you’re just a piece of ass on the side and very likely one of a few. You need to get some self respect, stop being so naïve and address the reason that you are so attracted to sabotaging other people’s relationships? I’ve heard literally ALL of the BS excuses that your “man” has told to you before, and guess what? None of it was true. Thankfully, I told him that NOTHING would ever happen whilst he was still married or living with another woman, so guess what he did? Moved on to someone naïve enough to swallow his bullshit sob story and then discarded her as soon as she put pressure on him to leave his marriage and move in with her.
Even if you have a fulfilling relationship with her husband you must ask yourself why he won’t just divorce her. Sounds like he’s selfish and perhaps keeping up appearances. You deserve more than being hid and not having your relationship publicly validated like their marriage clearly is.
@@777videos7777 Or maybe he’s just having his cake and eating it? Why would he need to divorce his wife if he has a woman who gives him easy sex on the side? He gets two for the price of one.
I didnt know she was married and I asked lots got the usual in the process living other end of the house she left wihtout clarity answers my questions is should you try reach out to the cheater and try get answers request conversation or should you tell the husband part me feels like a lil bit of both at times but its sad because theirs children involved makes me more sad tired depressed that she said she was single seperated shared days out with her kids and dad ,
sorry lady, IF, an affair partner KNOWS somebody they're interested in IS INDEED in a relationship?? IT IS TOO THEIR FAULT AS WELL... and in some states like Virginia i believe, they can be sued!
I have been cheated on many times in my marriage and relationships. This is the 1st time I'm the Affair Person. Why? Simply because I'm SICK of being the Good Woman. What has it gotten me? Nothing. I started a new job, my main co-worker hits on me daily. I finally flirted back and DECIDED to do it. I don't care. I don't want him. He has his tongue hanging out after EVERY woman who walks by. His wife was stupid to marry a man who has so little self-control. Not my Problem. I've been being GOOD and haven't dated or had sex in 4 YEARS. After the 5 month no-sex relationship I just experienced, I DECIDED that I NEED to get laid. My co-worker is more than available and willing. When I was married to a cheater, I knew I was being to stupid to stay, and that he would never change. Now it's my turn. Hurt people, hurt people, I suppose.
lol I hear your frustration for sure! Given how delicate this topic is, I needed to create a foundation that would allow people to listen with open ears and an open heart. I hope you were able to power through :)
You cannot build a happy home or relationship on the wrecks your affair has caused. Even if the mariage ends you will remain number 2, second choice. Especially if there is overlap. Men do not leave unless they know number 2 is waiting. One day the Affair Parther will be the number 2 (again?). This is what we become if we do not have the courage to do what is right and walk away from what is wrong. We used to have a social network that helped us to stay on track. In today’s world that is much harder. You need innerstrenghts to face your self.
Exactly. I’ve never been an affair partner but know I have the « psychological traits » of someone who could be one. It’s really scary. I’m always feeling like I can’t trust myself, though thanks to my moral compass, I’ve always backed off quite quickly when I felt some of my friendships or relationships with unavailable men were becoming too ambiguous, even when there was mutual attraction. It takes courage but it makes us feel so much better about ourselves.
A person can justify the why, the how, etc.. but the truth is a person who KNOWS a man or woman is married and doesn’t back off is wrong. Period. It’s never ok to insert yourself into a couples union even if there are problems. Every couple has issues and goes through hard times and by allowing yourself to be the “escape” that someone is craving in the moment just adds to the problems. It hardly ever ends well…
It’s wrong and reflects their own trauma of choosing emotionally unavailable partners. Healthy people don’t do it.
Truth
There isn't insertion there's invited connection and confessions that the person at home said No to.
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts in this space. I hope this episode supports you in learning a bit more about what might keep someone from stepping away even when they "should." Wishing you peace and thank you again.
@@melvinbirdman7438 Exactly! The person at fault is the one in a relationship being unfaithful and dishonest. The 3rd one may not even know about everything. Stop blaming the person outside the relationship!
This is the most comprehensive explanation of why one might choose to become an affair partner I’ve ever heard and for me, how it relates to both my parents cheating on each other at different ages of my life. How they involved me and how I’ve not recognized how that relates to choices I have made. Thank you!! Whew! Really appreciate finding this.
Thank you so much for sharing your feedback and I am so glad this episode provided value to you. Sending love.
My husband’s affair partner was very proud at her place in the breaking up of our marriage. All three of us work at the same company & she didn’t care & both of them, the cheaters are shameless. I ended up quitting because I couldn’t go through the pain, the shame & the disrespect that both of them has put me through
This sounds incredibly painful and difficult. Wishing you peace as you continue on your healing journey.
@@alexandrahs1 it was & I haven’t recovered. But it seems karma was just right behind him; he lost a sizable $$$ for the settlement, he lost the only daughter he loves & guilt, remorse & regret all came knocking at his doorstep. He was crying & begging the time I spoke with him….but it can’t go back to where it was. I will never go back despite the fact that I still love him. God & my faith will help me along life’s way & I’m willing to wait. But never allowing a low life come back after he broke me into pieces
Gutless turds! I’m so sorry, sweetheart. Sending hugs from Nebraska.
Mine was a serial cheater.
What was your husbands take?
This is far and away the best video I've seen about healing from the perspective of having an affair. Obviously this topic brings a lot of fear and anger, which are represented in many responses. But this video goes beyond blaming to the step after that, compassion to grow into a more expansive, steady version of ourselves. Thank you for the concrete suggestions at the end. I'm still in limbo with my MM, but we're trying to break up. It's so painful. We're not together because of a life changing health issue. It is so painful, and I'm wrestling with self-loathing, sadness, and anger. Thank you for the guidance and kindness.
You are so welcome. I am glad this episode provided insight and tools. Wishing you the best.
Thank you. Into my 50s this is the first time in my life I have made such a shocking choice to get involved as an affair partner of someone. Your guidance/advice and knowledge has been invaluable and all resonated with me. I knew in my heart I was a misery stabiliser and I believe the situation we created had lessons for both of us within it. As a result of weeks of reflection and then listening to this podcast it has resulted in me moving away from the situation and making my boundaries very clear. Now its about staying in my truth and sticking to my boundaries regardless of his behaviour.
Just discovering your channel. I've watched a lot of videos in this topic (and there's a lot of competition out there), but I really like what you're bringing to the table. Thank you for your content.
You are so welcome. I am really glad you found Reimagining Love and I hope you'll keep listening. Sending love.
1st listen and subscribed. Love the content and even more love your delivery ❤️ thank you!
Good people in good relationships may face entanglements. Even the best intentioned people can slowly let their boundaries be eroded into a full blow affair. I don't understand the reason of many puritanical comments. I am not a religious person but a very intelligent man from Galilee said he who is free from sin, let him cast the first stone.
He also told the woman that she was forgiven and to go away and repent i.e. change her behaviour.
Entanglements?! OK Jada smh
@@wLBlue Call it "unexpected liaisons" if you prefer. Shit happens, people change, desires shift and infidelity existed and exists. It’s better to communicate openly and acknowledge that problems occur, rather than pretending everyone must be perfect, everybody must be a saint or idealizing things. A 2020 study published in the Journal of Marriage and Family found that around 25% of married individuals in the US admitted to having been unfaithful. A survey conducted by the British organization YouGov in 2019 found a similar result in the UK. This is the reality. Have a nice day.
@@marsattacks1979 yes, indeed but infidelity often causes a great deal of heartache for those involved as well as the wider family. Jesus wasn't trying to spoil anyone's fun when he told the woman to repent. By her changing her behaviour she'd save herself much pain. Have a good day you too.
@@marsattacks1979 No, it doesn’t “just happen”. You don’t “just happen” to be walking around with no clothes on..
If you can forgive it, and move past it, then good for you. For me, once that happens, there’s no going back. A person may shatter my trust once but they will never get it back and they will never be given a second opportunity to do it again (which these types nearly always do because infidelity is rarely ever an isolated incident).
The vial and judgmental comments here against women who find themselves in the position of an affair partner is so disheartening. Everyone deserves compassion. The human experience is not reduced to black and white, and I suspect that many of you have experienced the push-pull of your moral compass in other areas of your life at some point in your experience …and not erred on the side of morality 100% of the time. Maybe not, maybe the only people judging others here are those who have only made selfless decisions that have never hurt anyone else. I commend you all.
I liked that you addressed this issue. It's not talked about enough. However you didn't even touch on the devastation that the AP goes through on a daily basis. The loneliness, sadness, pain or anything like it. It would have been nice if you addressed the daily anxiety and stress the AP goes through.
That mostly about healing and stopping pursuing the emotionally unavailable men (they can be all sorts unavailable, not necessary married). Exactly because that hurts.
Thank you so much for naming this. I appreciate your feedback.
Only the guy gets best both they will throw u out wen the shit hits the fan it's painful ur never gunna have that person x
@@kognitivescientistWhy sign up to punish yourself? Stop before you step on the slippery slope - you know it won’t end well.
Really? The AP literally put Themselves into this position. They are capable of stepping away from it but choose not to.
They Have a Choice. The betrayed spouse has no choice in the situation. Neither do their children. People Really Don't care how the AP feels. Even the betraying spouse doesn't really care. The AP is the only one who cares about how they feel which is fitting because they don't care about how the betrayed spouse or the children Will Feel For The Rest Of Their Lives. Sorry, not sorry. They did it to themselves and Did have a choice in the matter.
You cannot build a happy home or relationship on the wrecks your affair has caused. Even if the mariage ends you will remain number 2, second choice. Especially if there is overlap. Men do not leave unless they know number 2 is waiting. One day the Affair Parther will be the number 2 (again?). This is what we become if we do not have the courage to do what is right and walk away from what is wrong. We used to have a social network that helped us to stay on track. In today’s world that is much harder. You need innerstrenghts to face your self.
Esther Perez speaks nine languages - she states that there is a word for the other woman in all 9
Languages yet there are no words in those languages for the other man. I find that interesting.
Easy, women have rarely been involved in developing languages. 🤷🏼♀️
Thank you for the reminder. Language has these powerful ways of revealing our psychology, doesn't it?!
That's because it's vastly different when men cheat vs women.
This was extremely insightful and I learned so much! THANK YOU 🙏🏼
Thank you.
For covering an important and difficult topic. It is amazing to me the hatred and animosity.And vitriol people have for this type of thing. It's no wonder that people don't want to speak up with the amount of judgmental.
People out there. I truly think that comes from fear that their partner could do that to them. Life is messy.
There are also many cases where the AP will harass, bully and even stalk the wife and sometimes family. Of course there are exceptions but many APs do go out of their way to be intentionally cruel and cause more destruction. I also know there are times when the wife harass the AP. It's honestly a lose lose situation on all sides. Everyone ends up hurt.
Thank you for sharing in this space.
The AP is often also being played by the errant husband.
Not always the husband
Yes, the AP can certainly be someone of any gender.
It's always men's fault...just ask women
Thank you for making this. I learned a lot from this.
You are so welcome! I am glad you listened.
I believe that the AP has a narrow lens (skewed, bent, and broken) and the AP reduces their empathy-so in a sense they lose a bit of their humanity. Duplicity=inauthentic. I have never been betrayed but I have seen these ‘other’ women in social situations with their AP. They seem uncomfortable and constantly keeping an eye on their AP like they can’t trust them. It’s not worth it. The betrayed wife actually seems to move onto a better life and the ‘other’ woman is still jealous of her. It’s bizarre.
Really?...do they ever question why the husbands are cheating? Men are quite simple stomach full testes empty...no cheating.
Being the AP is like eating your dinner out of a restaurant garbage dumpster. Congratulations on being picked by a garbage person. The cheater is a person with deep problems and they will either never leave the spouse because they are cowardly or they will cheat on the AP as well. Being an AP is like racing to be in last place. Get therapy and stop participating in abuse.
A “garbage person”? 🙄
And never forget you can draw in sti's into your partner or into yourselves as you open your sex circle beyond what you control
Thank you for naming this difficult circumstance.
Thank you for this podcast. Rarely talked about and never any empathy for the affair partner, you brought so many ideas to light as to the reasons we tell ourselves that we will not hurt anyone.
Thank you so much for your comment. Wishing you all of my best!
Excellent, Excellent! The most in depth and and comprehensive i sight and explanation of affairs and how it basically perpetuated from one generation to the next. Very grateful 🙏
People actually think you can own another individual.... That's just ridiculous; married or not you will never stop a grown adult from choosing to cheat or stay faithful. So, blaming someone else is a Oxy Moron. It's simply a choice that was made to do so!! The Ego can fool you into thinking you have alot of Darn Power, when actually you're just a target like everybody else!! 🤷
Assuming we’re talking about individuals above the age of 5 then it’s entirely reasonable to blame a grown adult who makes the choice to cheat or to screw someone else’s husband or wife.
Wish you’d address the problem in older people’s marriages - sexless marriages. Usually it’s the woman doesn’t want sex anymore. Or sometimes a partner becomes ill or has a dementia. Is the other person obligated to remain sexless for the rest of his/her life in these circumstances? I know a few couples in these kinds of situations. The partner who still wants and needs sex doesn’t want to end the marriage, and neither do the affair partners they’re involved with. Both have settled lives, but just need physical intimacy. A friend of mine is in her late 60s and still very sexual. Her affair partner is in his late 60s as well, and his wife has dementia and other end-of-life health issues. They’ve been together for almost three years. He is honoring his vows for “in sickness and health” and is committed to his wife’s care, but also is still in need of sex …
Til death do us part...
I was interested in your message until you said that you don’t take an ethical stand on the affair partner’s decision to create a deceitful relationship. Such a relationship violates another person’s autonomy, and the onus for that is on both affair partners. While there may be reasons or explanations for this decision, it can almost never be a moral one.
That fully depends on what you preceive of as morality.
@@northofyou33 Oh please enough of that crap. You're helping a cheating spouse destroy their marriage and their family unit. You don't have to be a part of that ... period. It's really that simple. You have total agency of your own actions. I choose not to be a part of that.
I knew a psychopath girl whose logic was: “I want to feel the _power_ of it when you take somebody from another girl”.
@@kognitivescientist jeez, that's hideous. They exist alright, but I'd hazard a guess that that attitude is the minority.
Thank you for sharing in this space. My goal for this episode was to address the psychological and relational dynamics of the affair partner while holding compassion for their humanity. I appreciate you stepping into the conversation and am sending positive energy your way.
Also ive heard misery likes company. They affair down. And broken seeks broken. Its the biggest ego boost. Take another womans husband. Whats you view on this. ?
I hope you'll listen to the episode as I think the motivations on both sides are complex and nuanced.
Affair down? Not always. If your wife or husband makes you feel like crap and constantly degrading you and the nagging never stops? Will always find someone that makes you feel appreciated, alive, excited and in love! Getting divorced is not easy. Especially if there’s children involved a house to sell and money tied up.
So lovely to have a mature and balanced view on this topic
So glad this landed for you. Thank you so much for your comment!
The betraying spouse has to Vilify the spouse, so the AP can be feel better about participating in the affair.
Not always.
How will I ever get the AP to hear this? It all makes sense. Oh. I'm the betrayed spouse. Maybe I should not have listened, but I'm working on trying to forgive and empathize with the AP.
Thank you for being a part of this space. Here is some additional information surrounding my e-course - I hope it can serve as an additional resource for you as you continue to heal from betrayal. courses.dralexandrasolomon.com/can-i-trust-you-again-rebuilding-after-betrayal-or-deceit#:~:text=It%20is%20an%20opportunity%20to,creating%20a%20vision%20for%20change. I really appreciate your thoughtful words and am sending kindness to you.
It all depends on the situation and how accountable the cheater is willing to be
affair partners are broken people.
You can not arrive at that level of dysfunction without being broken in some major ways.
They are pathetic people.
It’s SAD how much destruction they cause to people who never did anything to hurt them (including the children of families that are destroyed by cheating.)
They will say they are not responsible but they are half the equation in causing all of this pain.
Have never betrayed another women or man in my life; never would. So low.
Why are you here?
Judgy
@@evesbyteit’s not; it’s a _decision_ to be not a coward. Need somebody else - say it and proceed there openly.
But this video is mostly about complicated and traumatised people who actually keep that intrigued
Don't say never.
Love is love
Well.... I AM judging.... And so are other people who Haven't Chosen to Cheat.
This is a difficult difficult topic for sure.
Trying so hard not to roll my eyes at some of this because it's giving a lot if excuses for bad behavior. BUT it is interesting to get some insight on where the AP is in their thinking. I never understood the draw to be with someone who is married or has a partner... that's an immediate turn off for me. Also, how can the AP not feel like that person will not so the same thing to them? I get it...they give you a sad story or whatever but its still very strange. I have experienced an AP that sounded like they were in it for some points you mentioned thrill, wanting to feel special or selected, and also she was trying to cushion her exit from her relationship (she was also married) and also actively trying to be my friend. I assume in an attempt to get more information about my husband and also again the thrill factor. Suffice to say, she's a grown woman and sometimes the excuses are all B.S. to allow people to feel better about their bad behavior.
He wasnt married had partner no children persuaded me for a year promised he would leave otherwise i refused to see him. For 18 months i had the most gorgeous relationsip of my life he said he wanted to marry me wanted to care for me the rest of my life. He then moved across the world devasted me. Im not over it never will be. He says still loves adores me yet not able to leave. Im the only one whoes life is utterly ruined. Have sympathy for the the person who believed he'd wanted me only.
I'm so sorry that you're going through this. I wish you the best of luck. ❤
Thank you so much for sharing your story. Sending you kindness during this challenging time.
You believed words and not actions. That was a risk you took.
He absolutely doesn't love and adore you and never did. He loved the way you loved him and how good you made him feel. Stop feeding his ego. The only reason he's still maintaining any contact and telling you sweet NOTHINGS from afar is because he wants to know you're still wanting and waiting for him which feeds his obnoxious ego. See how he reacts when you move on, get over him, and see how he was actually only using you.
The song "lipstick promises" comes to mind. How when he was with someone else could it be so good? He's not giving his full self which keeps you from giving your full self. It was your rose colored glasses and indoctrination of what an amazing relationship is supposed to be. Turn to scripture and be patient.
Do you do phone consultations
do you offer consultations? I need to talk to someone about this!
You are welcome to email me at info@dralexandrasolomon.com
I needed this so bad
Really glad this landed for you. Sending gentleness your way.
I just wanted to thank you for this insight. It's helpful to me 💙
So glad this landed for you.
I have an issue with the object of desire self-consciousness theory. It seems incredibly sexist and doesn’t take into account the socialization of women to be objects of desire. Given that we are trained to see our self-worth as evidenced by being desirable to a man wouldn’t it follow that single cis women would be more susceptible to this? Kind of offensive frankly.
Thank you so much for sharing in this space. Were you able to listen to the full episode? The theory itself is certainly gendered, although it can play out no matter your gender and gender expression. I hope the Relational Self-Awareness questions I offered within the episode were supportive to you in further exploring the topic. And of course, along with everything in these podcast episodes - take with you what lands for you and leave behind the rest!
Ignorance with today's ease and access to information is a choice
The 3 roles are actually 2 roles. The AP is the "innocent" one. The one cheating is at fault. The one being cheated on is at times at fault as well. It is between the two of them. The 3rd is most often a symptom of the malfunction.
Certainly if the AP has been lied to and does not know the relationship status of the betraying partner, this is the case. I am not sure whether you've listened to the episode, but I make the case that even though infidelity is often a symptom of an unhappy marriage, we ought to ALSO explore what is going on inside of the AP. Thank you for your comment.
@@alexandrahs1 Obviously a symptom of a bad marriage. And no one has been lied to.
The AP is only innocent if they don’t know about you.
@@alkwaza I don't think so. The circle is the family, the AP is outside the circle.
unfortunately, men are sexual creatures and many women slow down with the intimacy when the child comes along. There were 3 divorces in my street by the time the oldest had turned 3.
If she doesnt want him and he doesn’t want her but she won’t let him go… it’s been over for 15 years! We’re happy together. He IS getting divorced. We never cheated. Just attracted.
🤣
YIKES🤡
Oh wow. "She won't let him go?" Always 2 sides of a coin. Yeah. You will find out. From one AP to another.
Did she do a video on the betrayer?
I have not done exact parallels but please listen to the episode, "Can We Rebuild After Infidelity?" ua-cam.com/video/iYtqtyTF6oA/v-deo.html and my e-course, "Can I Trust You Again? Rebuilding After Betrayal or Deceit courses.dralexandrasolomon.com/can-i-trust-you-again-rebuilding-after-betrayal-or-deceit
I guess I'm a desperate complete mess. Yes, my childhood was a nightmare, I'd a very abusive step-father. I'm sitting here with my arms crossed feeling like I'm being preached to, like my step-father often did. Very, Very negative and yes this whole experience is not what I need, but unfortunately is what I need as well. Everything I do is out of Love for Love, including being the oldest and wanting to take care of my family regardless if it meant I took the bounty of the abuse, even for my own mother. My "affair" is emotional, the person I care about does not know how important he is to me, or maybe he does, we don't cross the line, but I know in my heart that line is very thin. I met his wife and wanted to love her so I can get past this, but instead I found her narcissistic and she had no concern with anyone only her wants and needs where important, my family also saw this in her. She has completely annulated each of her children all grown, at one point or another among other things. My life has been full of narcissistic people including my late husband. This friend and I are on parallels, we are both people pleasers, work in the same industry and have much of the same likes and dislikes. I know he won't leave her, he is trying to fix her and has committed to that for decades, I've accepted that he will never tell me that he loves me or I will never tell him how much I'm in love with him, as long as he is in that marriage, if my husband had not passed I probably would not have left him either. I've one huge question why is this right???
I have been all 3 in the scenario. I would have NEVER thought I’d cheat until I was cheated on. I can tell you this. Of all positions to be in the affair partner is the worse. You know you’re a piece of crap anytime you’re willing to compromise everything for the #2 spot and in the end what are you proud of?
When I was the other woman I could never be myself or make natural moves- every move I made was calculated to keep him interested- to keep up the facade, to keep my true feelings at bay. Nothing was pure or real.
But why...did u do it? Knowing how much pain it causes.
@@wLBlue vengeance
@@DeeMBee123 Vengeance? You hated his partner so you screwed her man, is that it?
@@SG-wx8zm no I did it to get back at my guy. I was not thinking about anyone else but making the man who cheated on me feel the pain he caused me.
@@DeeMBee123 And how did he react?
No power involved, just a beautiful relationship sharing many interests.
It was interesting thank you. I don't know why it should be taboo. With half of marriages ending in divorce, "affairs" are very ordinary, let's face it. I think alot of us have been in all the various positions if you've lived long enough. There are many reasons why it happens, for instance, you may be stuck in a marriage with someone who has a long term illness where you need intimacy at some point. Life is complicated. I think few people go out to destroy other people. In an ideal world, we would all be super happy in our little nuclear marriages but none that I have witnessed over the years.
where are the show notes?
"Power" ...really...in todays world? All these strong independent women with all their wisdom and intuition?
This is the second time that I have become the affair partner and it sucks
I hope this episode was a supportive resource for you. Thank you for listening and for sharing in this space.
@dwaynebronk Did they lie to you to rope you in or did you know from the beginning?
How...how is it possible?
I relate to the original comment and the second time (both really) I was vulnerable to someone’s pure kindness/ attention and seeing me in a way that most overlook. I was probably was preyed upon. The second time he pretended he wasn’t married and didn’t tell me until much later. Everything isn’t black and white and not all AP go into it willingly.
The best talk on this topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you so much for sharing this. XO
Should there be a dating app for the betrayeds? Afterall, we're looking for the pool of people who DON'T actually do this stuff. Divorce from stbx wife will be finalized December 3 😃💪
It amazes me when married women attack the woman in this scenario, rather than their husbands. It is rare for a woman to make the first move.... although it does happen of course. It is usually the husband who befriends a woman he is attracted to and then a relationship starts from there. An affair is always a symptom of a problem within the marriage.... whether the wife wants to admit htat or not. Men are very simple creatures.. even the highly intelligent and intellectual ones. It's always about sex, even if they wrap it up as 'love'. But I do think that the wives, rather than attacking the other woman, ought to be focussing all their anger on their husbands. No one forced these men to be unfaithful. They wanted to be.
Second listening this is amazing thank you 🙏
What if the AP believe the lies she's told? He told her he was single and we they have broken up.. Still married but split up. AP asked him to file. And to get his tattoos covered up. Basically, get rid of his past. ( I've since found out she was seeing a married man in the same office ( she knew he was married, before she came on to my husband)
This entire explanation or argument is premised on the idea that marriage is somehow an ideal state and not in actuality a largely failed myth of culture in which people become subsumed and pigeonholed.
The assumption that I must be broken, confused or compromised because I have chosen to make love with my partner is the least feminist position you could possibly take. I am neither of those things.
What I am is in full embrace of reality. My sexual needs are being met. His sexual needs are being met. She has zero sexual interest in her husband. For six of the last 17 years she has not touched him and avoid him by staying up late after he goes to bed. For five of those years he and I were drawn to each other and did nothing about it despite strong desire and friendship. This year I changed my perspective on the entire thing because I stopped to think about how short life actually is, about how much I genuinely like him and care about his happiness, and about how little I buy into the BS about marriage.
In this video you perpetuate the myth that marriage is an ideal state for any individual, no matter what. I wholeheartedly disagree. And I think that assertions that people who do not believe that marriage is an ideal state need to be fixed is like saying that LGBTQ individuals need to be reprogrammed. Marriage is the biggest hoax played upon people there has ever been. If I do my partner any favor whatsoever it is not orgasms or blowjobs, it is seeing him for the whole person he is and acknowledging that the only thing that prevents him from fully expressing himself is his unfortunate state of being caught up in the marriage myth. Every aspect of our culture insists that people do this thing that is anathema to their existential right to be free and express themselves fully. Men and women are jacked around by fiction, advertising, capitalism, marketing, stereotypes and bullshit. The person who needs help is the one who will not acknowledge the truth that most marriages do not last, that physical desire shifts and most often leaves, and that infidelity is common for a very good reason. It would be more honest for you to create a video in which you discuss this truth and liberate people from cultural narratives that entrap them.
💯 💯💯
I am not sure whether you have listened to the episode or not, but I certainly would never say that an affair partner is broken. My work is an invitation into self-reflection and exploring the "roles" we take up in our relationships. I agree with much of your critique of the institution of marriage. Listen to my conversation with Dr. Shefali for more on this: ua-cam.com/video/zhWgnv8WsAc/v-deo.html. I think we can hold BOTH a critical view of marriage AND concern for the impact of deception. I am wishing you well. Thank you for your comment.
@@MP-cd5kk And how do you actually know that any of this is even true? Are you in their home? Are you in their bed with them? Frankly, being used as a side piece ain’t exactly “feminist”, either? If he ACTUALLY gave a damn about YOU then why does he not leave HER and make you something more than a dirty little secret that he’d likely drop like a tonne of bricks the second you put pressure on him to leave his wife? Face it, you’re just a piece of ass on the side and very likely one of a few. You need to get some self respect, stop being so naïve and address the reason that you are so attracted to sabotaging other people’s relationships? I’ve heard literally ALL of the BS excuses that your “man” has told to you before, and guess what? None of it was true. Thankfully, I told him that NOTHING would ever happen whilst he was still married or living with another woman, so guess what he did? Moved on to someone naïve enough to swallow his bullshit sob story and then discarded her as soon as she put pressure on him to leave his marriage and move in with her.
Even if you have a fulfilling relationship with her husband you must ask yourself why he won’t just divorce her. Sounds like he’s selfish and perhaps keeping up appearances. You deserve more than being hid and not having your relationship publicly validated like their marriage clearly is.
@@777videos7777 Or maybe he’s just having his cake and eating it? Why would he need to divorce his wife if he has a woman who gives him easy sex on the side? He gets two for the price of one.
I didnt know she was married and I asked lots got the usual in the process living other end of the house she left wihtout clarity answers my questions is should you try reach out to the cheater and try get answers request conversation or should you tell the husband part me feels like a lil bit of both at times but its sad because theirs children involved makes me more sad tired depressed that she said she was single seperated shared days out with her kids and dad ,
Very insightful‼️
Thank you for sharing!!
15 minutes of preamble, waivers and disclaimers. Gotta tighten that up a bit.
This is not just affair advice...❤by
I recommend you find a billionaire grandad ❤.
Yes the nastiness is disgraceful.
Can’t break the vows you didn’t take
sorry lady, IF, an affair partner KNOWS somebody they're interested in IS INDEED in a relationship?? IT IS TOO THEIR FAULT AS WELL...
and in some states like Virginia i believe, they can be sued!
He tells me all the time how wonderful I’ve been
🤢
I have been cheated on many times in my marriage and relationships. This is the 1st time I'm the Affair Person. Why? Simply because I'm SICK of being the Good Woman. What has it gotten me? Nothing. I started a new job, my main co-worker hits on me daily. I finally flirted back and DECIDED to do it. I don't care. I don't want him. He has his tongue hanging out after EVERY woman who walks by. His wife was stupid to marry a man who has so little self-control. Not my Problem. I've been being GOOD and haven't dated or had sex in 4 YEARS. After the 5 month no-sex relationship I just experienced, I DECIDED that I NEED to get laid. My co-worker is more than available and willing. When I was married to a cheater, I knew I was being to stupid to stay, and that he would never change. Now it's my turn. Hurt people, hurt people, I suppose.
Well done
Thank you for listening!
It's been over 12 minutes, and you still haven't gotten to the point
lol I hear your frustration for sure! Given how delicate this topic is, I needed to create a foundation that would allow people to listen with open ears and an open heart. I hope you were able to power through :)
Intoxication Toxic
Life saving 😘
So glad this landed. ❤
What about the sex!!
She is abusing him 18:34
THIS!!!! I lost count how many I re-played it! 🙏🏽🥹
You cannot build a happy home or relationship on the wrecks your affair has caused. Even if the mariage ends you will remain number 2, second choice. Especially if there is overlap. Men do not leave unless they know number 2 is waiting. One day the Affair Parther will be the number 2 (again?). This is what we become if we do not have the courage to do what is right and walk away from what is wrong. We used to have a social network that helped us to stay on track. In today’s world that is much harder. You need innerstrenghts to face your self.
Exactly. I’ve never been an affair partner but know I have the « psychological traits » of someone who could be one. It’s really scary. I’m always feeling like I can’t trust myself, though thanks to my moral compass, I’ve always backed off quite quickly when I felt some of my friendships or relationships with unavailable men were becoming too ambiguous, even when there was mutual attraction. It takes courage but it makes us feel so much better about ourselves.